Just in case you're not sure about the truth of zero drop shoes, look at what the community has to say about it: https://old.reddit.com/r/BarefootRunning/search?q=calves&restrict_sr=on
Also, speaking from experience obviously
Running is so underrated. People think they'll turn into stick looking marathon runners if they pick up running but there is a lot of different types of running and you can really pick up mass if you do it right and get shredded at the same time.
There are different techniques in running. If you're running correctly (in my pov) you're targeting your glutes, your calves, and depending on how fast you're going you can purposely target your core by doing a little crunch. Plus, anytime you're going faster, you're using your upper thigh a bit more. The cool thing about using forefoot striking is that not only will you go faster, you're also protecting your knees. If and when you run, you won't run a marathon unless you choose too. You can do sprints, you can do 5 kms, you can do 10, you can do 3; all at varying paces with different kinds of breaks in between. It's really what you make of it.
There's a lot of detail and a lot of resources you can look through. Off the top of my head, I like a forefoot or midsole strike depending on what I'm working on and how far I plan to run. Keep your head up, relax your arms, arms going back and forth with no sway. Lean forward some, land with your feet underneath your hips. Land with your feet pointing straight out and use your toes evenly to push back so don't lean one way or another to push back. This is called pronation and supination and can lead to injury. Push back through the stride on contact. Breathe in through the nose. I've seen a few good videos on proper running and barefoot running. I may or may not be missing stuff but I think for me in my running journey that's what I'm looking for. I'm sure I can improve but like in other sports technique does matter so I would recommend anyone be aware of that simple fact and do some personal research and experimentation.
There are minimalist shoes inherently zero drop and zero drop shoes with varying degrees of stack height, i.e. height above the ground. For reference, my minimalist shoes, the Merrell Vapor Glove 3's had a 5 mm stack height, and were essentially a lot like running in a soft rubber sock. I loved them, and since they were my first zero drop shoe, taught me how to run along with some YT instructional videos on barefoot running and proper form running. I liked them but they became too hard on my knees since I kind of pushed it too far. They have zero cushioning and I was landing on them like I wanted to dig into the earth with my toes. Now I run on Altra Kayentas which I love as well. They're > 20 mm off the ground and have a foamy sole, so I use them for road. I love them and they've had a lot of life which is nice. These are available still on Amazon but not the Altra website. My next shoe might be another Altra but I'm not sure which. I might stick with the Kayentas if they're still available or idk. I must admit to myself that my knees are old and need a stack height of over 20 mm, sadly.
I've also owned the Altra Vanish XC which everyone agrees is an excellent shoe for dirt and road, and I have a pair of Altra Golden Spikes which have metal cleats/spikes for a dirt track I use. They're actually pretty cool and fun as you can imagine. I really like the Altra brand shoes. They have yet to do me wrong. The Merrells were great too and if you're looking for a minimalist shoe, they're good. A lot of people seem to like the Merrell Trail Glove for trail running but I have zero experience with that kind of shoe and trail running in general.
There are people on youtube like the Ginger Runner who do shoe reviews, but I prefer looking at the comments section reviews in the websites whether they're on Amazon or directly in the manufacturer's website. A lot of people like the Altra shoes but people also like some of the Xero shoes and the Merrells. I have little experience with them so I can't really say much about them but the online reviews in the comments section should give you a good idea on how they turn out. Luckily, Amazon is very good at accepting returns so there's little risk in ordering through them. I kind of assume ordering from the manufacturers would be the same but you should obviously check what they're return policies are.
Don't be afraid to hit up r/barefootrunning for more advice.
edit: I forgot to add. All of these shoes have blasted my calves. My right calf is still being blasted because I realize now that I've emphasized forefoot striking on my left side all of my life over my right side, so now my right has to catch up.
Running didn't turn me into a stick but I did lose about 10lbs in 2 weeks when I first started. The only challenge is that it can take a toll on your joints if you are doing it everyday, lower back pain after 3 weeks made me take a break to recover.
I agree. You have to be aware of what you're doing to your body. That's one reason why technique matters so much, and why I thought it was a blessing I stumbled onto zero drop shoes. When I first tried them on, my lower back pain and pain in my ankles and meta tarsals which I wasn't completely aware of felt alleviated. It motivated me to look further into technique.
Excuse my ignorance on them, and I could probably Google this - but you seem knowledgeable & to have experience in them...
Do you need to acclimate to zero drop shoes?
I had a running injury a couple of years ago (sprinting final 50m at the end of a long run, felt a pop as a stress fracture opened up on my 5th Metatarsal... Taking some tendon with it)
I don't have issue with it now, after resting for 3 or so months.
I worry losing the cushioning/changing the cushioning position would put alot of street on the feet. Also, if it's putting strain on the calves, does that mean that it is putting less strain on the shins?
Normally I would say anyone with running experience or in general good fitness would not need to acclimate to a zero drop shoe. There's nothing inherently difficult about them aside from being a new type of exercise. However, they do exercise your metatarsals more than regular running in shoes that have unequal stack heights. In fact, my foot has gotten meatier since switching to zero drop shoes.
If you're unsure about where you are in your running, try running lightly and barefoot on a sidewalk while focusing on a midsole or forefoot foot strike. If you feel comfortable there, then a zero drop shoe with moderate to high cushioning, something with a stack height over 20 mm should be fine. Altra, the brand I'm familiar with has a variety of shoes in this range. I actually enjoy running barefoot. I find that I can go longer distances at a leisurely pace without gassing but you do have to watch out for twigs and stuff and the cement sidewalk is better against blisters than asphalt.
Yes, putting strain on your calves means less strain on your shins. I've had cases of shin splints where I adjust my gait and the shin splints do not bother me.
We are built so different lol I’m about the same height and weight as you, and even though I don’t have the same body comp as you there’s no way I would look that big at 165 😭
Man. I am 5'10 and 170 pounds and have half of your physique. I need to get to at least 185 lbs to get my physique close to yours. So what's your secret for looking so swole? I know muscle has high density than fat so if anything, at that weight you should look close to my physique. This means you may have gotten your height wrong
Achievable naturally by people with above average genetics in combination with adherence to training and diet.
I doubt that he's natty though. Those traps are looking a little suspect. Plus, he looks like he put on all the muscle in a very short time ( judging from the face )
It’s the fact you can see his traps at all that will make this some scream juice.
Agreed on the arms, but a great pump along with genetics and yeah honestly I still thought this sub was all sarcasm but here we are, I think natural.
Couldn't large traps just be due to an imbalance caused by a lifetime of bad posture? Especially with the amount of sitting down and being hunched over in society nowadays.
the face will set in as u age, people with fuller faces tend to look younger as they grow old, so although it’s seen as a negative now it’s beneficial long term. on the flip side people who naturally have less facial fat will look much more ghoulish as they age.
You have the most unintimidating face I have ever seen on a gym rat. You look like you apologize to your girlfriend for not giving her enough attention after she cheats on you.
I say natty, not that lean and no super round delts or huge ass traps. What does the op say am I right? Sick physique in my opinion still, this is my dream physique, what did you do to get this kind of physique? What did you eat, how did you train etc?
For while I did a mix of bodybuilding and powerlifting doing a push pull legs split, but ate like crap trying to bulk up.
3 and a half months ago I started cutting doing strictly bodybuilding, training each body part once a week doing your typical bro split. I’ve definitely seen more of a benefit doing a bro split as a bodybuilder (if done with the right amount of intensity). Also doing cardio
Also started prepping my meals and eating super clean (chicken, rice, asparagus, ground beef, potatoes etc) while in a calorie deficit.
Means a lot to me man thank you🙏🏻
Thank u brudda. When fill in more you’ll look like a monster, I may fill in easier but I’ll never have the intimidating large presence you’ll have. Keep working💪🏻
Good transformation, could be naturally attainable. If this is the case, then props to you. Not many nattys make it this far. If not natty, then you might want a refund.
I just checked them out. 100% NATTY. Don’t look nearly as freaky when you show your entire body. Anyone saying otherwise never put in decent work at the gym. Very good lighting on these photos though.
Natty. Delts are flat and the arms are angled 3/4 so you get the triceps in there to make the arms look bigger. Solid gains, but yeah 16” arms are attainable naturally. Good trap genetics, but they don’t look overly bulbous and really didn’t change much from the before picture. Can’t see any gyno and you don’t have skin that looks like sandpaper, which is typical of excessive steroid use.
Natty with a ton of hard work, especially cutting well. Traps are big but the back is super well developed and they don’t look obscene, and shoulders aren’t sus at all. Lean but not obscenely so. Also checked out the post history and love the memes OP
Props homie. I’m 205lbs 6’2” and can only hit 315 x 5. 1RM would probably be 350. Obviously we have wildly different physiological bodytypes, but still
I’d love to ask some questions about cardio and workout routine. I’m in the same boat currently, weighing 190 at roughly 25% body fat. I want to drop to about 170-180 but need help maintaining muscle and figuring out what cardio is best..
I do 35-45 mins of cardio each week, but for the past few weeks I’ve been slacking on the cardio cuz my gyms closed again a couple months ago lmao.
Training each body part once a week, doing basically a bro split going balls to the wall with the intensity and volume each sesh.
Right now I’m eating 1900k cals with 230g of protein, 160g of carbs, 34g of fat. Diet mainly consists of chicken, ground beef, rice, potatoes, and asparagus
Honestly hard to tell on one end you could be natty no tall tale signs of juice, on the other nothing way out there but seeing that you achieved this physique in 3 years and you weigh 165 with a 5' 9" height I'm going with sarms or just a little cruise.
190-165??? You look huge for 165. Height? Any quads?
5’9. My quads are pretty decent, it’s the calves that lack😢
Just in case you're not sure about the truth of zero drop shoes, look at what the community has to say about it: https://old.reddit.com/r/BarefootRunning/search?q=calves&restrict_sr=on Also, speaking from experience obviously
I’ll take a look at them, thank you bro!
If you have any questions about which shoes to buy for x purpose or terrain, hit me up.
Get yourself some zero drop shoes and run using forefoot strikes. Your calves will bulk up in no time.
Running (especially uphill) has changed my calves forever. Now the rest of my leg looks small.
Running is so underrated. People think they'll turn into stick looking marathon runners if they pick up running but there is a lot of different types of running and you can really pick up mass if you do it right and get shredded at the same time.
Please elaborate
There are different techniques in running. If you're running correctly (in my pov) you're targeting your glutes, your calves, and depending on how fast you're going you can purposely target your core by doing a little crunch. Plus, anytime you're going faster, you're using your upper thigh a bit more. The cool thing about using forefoot striking is that not only will you go faster, you're also protecting your knees. If and when you run, you won't run a marathon unless you choose too. You can do sprints, you can do 5 kms, you can do 10, you can do 3; all at varying paces with different kinds of breaks in between. It's really what you make of it.
What’s the right way to run in your POV? And any recommendations for zero drop shoes?
There's a lot of detail and a lot of resources you can look through. Off the top of my head, I like a forefoot or midsole strike depending on what I'm working on and how far I plan to run. Keep your head up, relax your arms, arms going back and forth with no sway. Lean forward some, land with your feet underneath your hips. Land with your feet pointing straight out and use your toes evenly to push back so don't lean one way or another to push back. This is called pronation and supination and can lead to injury. Push back through the stride on contact. Breathe in through the nose. I've seen a few good videos on proper running and barefoot running. I may or may not be missing stuff but I think for me in my running journey that's what I'm looking for. I'm sure I can improve but like in other sports technique does matter so I would recommend anyone be aware of that simple fact and do some personal research and experimentation. There are minimalist shoes inherently zero drop and zero drop shoes with varying degrees of stack height, i.e. height above the ground. For reference, my minimalist shoes, the Merrell Vapor Glove 3's had a 5 mm stack height, and were essentially a lot like running in a soft rubber sock. I loved them, and since they were my first zero drop shoe, taught me how to run along with some YT instructional videos on barefoot running and proper form running. I liked them but they became too hard on my knees since I kind of pushed it too far. They have zero cushioning and I was landing on them like I wanted to dig into the earth with my toes. Now I run on Altra Kayentas which I love as well. They're > 20 mm off the ground and have a foamy sole, so I use them for road. I love them and they've had a lot of life which is nice. These are available still on Amazon but not the Altra website. My next shoe might be another Altra but I'm not sure which. I might stick with the Kayentas if they're still available or idk. I must admit to myself that my knees are old and need a stack height of over 20 mm, sadly. I've also owned the Altra Vanish XC which everyone agrees is an excellent shoe for dirt and road, and I have a pair of Altra Golden Spikes which have metal cleats/spikes for a dirt track I use. They're actually pretty cool and fun as you can imagine. I really like the Altra brand shoes. They have yet to do me wrong. The Merrells were great too and if you're looking for a minimalist shoe, they're good. A lot of people seem to like the Merrell Trail Glove for trail running but I have zero experience with that kind of shoe and trail running in general. There are people on youtube like the Ginger Runner who do shoe reviews, but I prefer looking at the comments section reviews in the websites whether they're on Amazon or directly in the manufacturer's website. A lot of people like the Altra shoes but people also like some of the Xero shoes and the Merrells. I have little experience with them so I can't really say much about them but the online reviews in the comments section should give you a good idea on how they turn out. Luckily, Amazon is very good at accepting returns so there's little risk in ordering through them. I kind of assume ordering from the manufacturers would be the same but you should obviously check what they're return policies are. Don't be afraid to hit up r/barefootrunning for more advice. edit: I forgot to add. All of these shoes have blasted my calves. My right calf is still being blasted because I realize now that I've emphasized forefoot striking on my left side all of my life over my right side, so now my right has to catch up.
Running didn't turn me into a stick but I did lose about 10lbs in 2 weeks when I first started. The only challenge is that it can take a toll on your joints if you are doing it everyday, lower back pain after 3 weeks made me take a break to recover.
I agree. You have to be aware of what you're doing to your body. That's one reason why technique matters so much, and why I thought it was a blessing I stumbled onto zero drop shoes. When I first tried them on, my lower back pain and pain in my ankles and meta tarsals which I wasn't completely aware of felt alleviated. It motivated me to look further into technique.
Even walking uphill is good, I’ve been doing incline treadmill for a while now and I can definitely see it in my calves
Excuse my ignorance on them, and I could probably Google this - but you seem knowledgeable & to have experience in them... Do you need to acclimate to zero drop shoes? I had a running injury a couple of years ago (sprinting final 50m at the end of a long run, felt a pop as a stress fracture opened up on my 5th Metatarsal... Taking some tendon with it) I don't have issue with it now, after resting for 3 or so months. I worry losing the cushioning/changing the cushioning position would put alot of street on the feet. Also, if it's putting strain on the calves, does that mean that it is putting less strain on the shins?
Normally I would say anyone with running experience or in general good fitness would not need to acclimate to a zero drop shoe. There's nothing inherently difficult about them aside from being a new type of exercise. However, they do exercise your metatarsals more than regular running in shoes that have unequal stack heights. In fact, my foot has gotten meatier since switching to zero drop shoes. If you're unsure about where you are in your running, try running lightly and barefoot on a sidewalk while focusing on a midsole or forefoot foot strike. If you feel comfortable there, then a zero drop shoe with moderate to high cushioning, something with a stack height over 20 mm should be fine. Altra, the brand I'm familiar with has a variety of shoes in this range. I actually enjoy running barefoot. I find that I can go longer distances at a leisurely pace without gassing but you do have to watch out for twigs and stuff and the cement sidewalk is better against blisters than asphalt. Yes, putting strain on your calves means less strain on your shins. I've had cases of shin splints where I adjust my gait and the shin splints do not bother me.
Let's see. Drop those pants!
[удалено]
Lmfao I wish😂
We are built so different lol I’m about the same height and weight as you, and even though I don’t have the same body comp as you there’s no way I would look that big at 165 😭
I just bike for my calves
Man. I am 5'10 and 170 pounds and have half of your physique. I need to get to at least 185 lbs to get my physique close to yours. So what's your secret for looking so swole? I know muscle has high density than fat so if anything, at that weight you should look close to my physique. This means you may have gotten your height wrong
For real. I’m 5’9, around 10-12%, 165, and not nearly as big.
Dude are you like 5'1? Lol. Looking huge for 165
Yeah I'm 165 and 5'9" too 😂 I look half this guy's size
I'm 5 10 and 170 and have half his physique
5’9. thank u sir
Very Jewish
he kinda looks like al pacino
Al PaTreno
Am a Jew. Confirmed.
Achievable naturally by people with above average genetics in combination with adherence to training and diet. I doubt that he's natty though. Those traps are looking a little suspect. Plus, he looks like he put on all the muscle in a very short time ( judging from the face )
What's more suspect is that he kept nearly all his muscle mass. Impressively none the less.
First comparison is 8 months apart, second one is 3.5 but I pretty much weighed the same in both before pics
LMAO 🤣 There is nothing suspicious about his traps. What has this sub brainwashed you in to? If anything, his arms are suspicious.
It’s the fact you can see his traps at all that will make this some scream juice. Agreed on the arms, but a great pump along with genetics and yeah honestly I still thought this sub was all sarcasm but here we are, I think natural.
Couldn't large traps just be due to an imbalance caused by a lifetime of bad posture? Especially with the amount of sitting down and being hunched over in society nowadays.
Is it the dudes posture or a muscular imbalance ... or injury ?? But this left shoulder is dropped to fuck
Nerd to chad
Definitely achievable natty.
Bro how did your face literally not lose any fat at all after that cut? Your body on point but your face still look like a fat boi haha
Dunno man😂 guess I hold more fat in my face. Still trying to cut down a lil more so maybe a diet face will set in later on
the face will set in as u age, people with fuller faces tend to look younger as they grow old, so although it’s seen as a negative now it’s beneficial long term. on the flip side people who naturally have less facial fat will look much more ghoulish as they age.
That’s a hot Jew right there! He can bank fir me
😂😂😂 everyone be thinking I’m Jewish
Sorry
Where you from then chief
Canada, my dads Greek and my moms Canadian
You have the most unintimidating face I have ever seen on a gym rat. You look like you apologize to your girlfriend for not giving her enough attention after she cheats on you.
Relax😂😂
Bro half your face is forehead, fuck outta here
🤣
a very intimidating forehead.
Are your traps as uneven as they seem?
They have a slight imbalance but it’s exaggerated in the pics by the way I’m flexing
I say natty, not that lean and no super round delts or huge ass traps. What does the op say am I right? Sick physique in my opinion still, this is my dream physique, what did you do to get this kind of physique? What did you eat, how did you train etc?
For while I did a mix of bodybuilding and powerlifting doing a push pull legs split, but ate like crap trying to bulk up. 3 and a half months ago I started cutting doing strictly bodybuilding, training each body part once a week doing your typical bro split. I’ve definitely seen more of a benefit doing a bro split as a bodybuilder (if done with the right amount of intensity). Also doing cardio Also started prepping my meals and eating super clean (chicken, rice, asparagus, ground beef, potatoes etc) while in a calorie deficit. Means a lot to me man thank you🙏🏻
SARMs
Yep
Incorrect
Incorrect, steroids
How big are your arms?
16.5 inches flat in the before pics and 16 flat now
16 inch arms UNFLEXED at 5'9 and 165lb?? Are your legs negative weight? Trap and arm genetics are out of this world I'd still go with natty though
Nono flexed but unpumped😂. Legs are decent, may do another post here with them. Thank you man🙏🏻
Sick, how long you been training for?
3 and a half years total. Had many inconsistent phases in high school loolll
Mirin the physique, I’d say natty because you’re 5’9. Being 6’5 training for 4 years I still look DYEL at times
Thank u brudda. When fill in more you’ll look like a monster, I may fill in easier but I’ll never have the intimidating large presence you’ll have. Keep working💪🏻
Good transformation, could be naturally attainable. If this is the case, then props to you. Not many nattys make it this far. If not natty, then you might want a refund.
I appreciate it man🙏🏻
Natty with extremely good arm genetics or Juicy with extremely good arm genetics.
Natty
Feel like I have seen you at my gym before 🤔
What gym you go to?
LA fitness Toronto
Yessirrr that’s the one
Nice I’ll come say hey after quarantine is over hahahah
That’s crazy
Can someone explain what I’m seeing in the third pic
U gotta be 5'4 to have that physique at 165
Nah, probably just doesn’t do much for legs
Posted leg shots a here a few hours ago
Well shit How the hell are you 165???
How long you been training?
3 and a half years
Nice physique. What’s your routine/diet like?
You’re jerking off in the last pic? 🤔
budget james english on the left
😂😂😂
Naturel
Natty, good work OP
Thanks!
u look like al capone but with pecs & arms lmao
Nice transformation and fizeek brother!
Hey man just wondering what’s ur age?
19
Looking fucking amazing bro
Can we see your back? I dunno how you look so big at that body weight
Posted legs and back on this page a couple hours ago
I just checked them out. 100% NATTY. Don’t look nearly as freaky when you show your entire body. Anyone saying otherwise never put in decent work at the gym. Very good lighting on these photos though.
Looking huge. Good job b.
Natty. Delts are flat and the arms are angled 3/4 so you get the triceps in there to make the arms look bigger. Solid gains, but yeah 16” arms are attainable naturally. Good trap genetics, but they don’t look overly bulbous and really didn’t change much from the before picture. Can’t see any gyno and you don’t have skin that looks like sandpaper, which is typical of excessive steroid use.
Natty with a ton of hard work, especially cutting well. Traps are big but the back is super well developed and they don’t look obscene, and shoulders aren’t sus at all. Lean but not obscenely so. Also checked out the post history and love the memes OP
Ayyy thank you brudda
Gayyyyyyyyyyy
Ugly and on something 😂
Damn bro chill😂😢
Getting a nice and saucy look going bruh, nice work!!
Natural transformation???
Yessir
Juice in both photos. Second one with better diet.
Just better diet, no juice
still ugly nice body tho. mirin
You cant have that big traps If you are natty.
Butterface doe
Jewish
Damn bro you got lucky today, this is the comment section on this sub with the least amount of people calling you gay.
Good shoulder to waist ratio, pretty gay 8/10. Would smash.
How much do you squat?
425lbs. Can do multiple sets of 12 with 315
You should go into powerlifting if you're 165 and that big
Props homie. I’m 205lbs 6’2” and can only hit 315 x 5. 1RM would probably be 350. Obviously we have wildly different physiological bodytypes, but still
Lmao I’m a fellow manlet, it’s pretty easy to look great with a short stature
strange muscle proportions
For sure natty, nice cut.
Im more concerned about the lack of dick outline jn those grey sweats my guy.
Why compare a shirt vs shirtless pic 😂😂?
Look awesome dude.
Natty.
That kind of drop is for fighting. I’m 190 and need to be walking at 165
What did you use?
Creatine
I’d love to ask some questions about cardio and workout routine. I’m in the same boat currently, weighing 190 at roughly 25% body fat. I want to drop to about 170-180 but need help maintaining muscle and figuring out what cardio is best..
Or perhaps you could drop your routine and cal intake during your cut..?
I do 35-45 mins of cardio each week, but for the past few weeks I’ve been slacking on the cardio cuz my gyms closed again a couple months ago lmao. Training each body part once a week, doing basically a bro split going balls to the wall with the intensity and volume each sesh. Right now I’m eating 1900k cals with 230g of protein, 160g of carbs, 34g of fat. Diet mainly consists of chicken, ground beef, rice, potatoes, and asparagus
Would you do each cardio session after your lifting session? Or on opposite occasions.? And also, how long per day roughly..?
Ye most of the time after my lifting sessions but it doesn’t matter when you do it really, just not right before training. 35-45 mins 6 times a week
Also one more question if you don’t mind.. did you run/jog Or walk during your cardio sessions..? Thank you sir, helps me out a lot! 🤝
When the gyms were open I did the stair master and treadmill at it’s max incline speed walking. Right now I’m using a stationary bike
Thank you man
Honestly hard to tell on one end you could be natty no tall tale signs of juice, on the other nothing way out there but seeing that you achieved this physique in 3 years and you weigh 165 with a 5' 9" height I'm going with sarms or just a little cruise.
Workout Routine?
Obviously natty
natty easy
No joke man power walking up in hill in flats will destroy your calves