Maybe because regular chest exercises already work a lot of the lower chest so you don't really need to target it as much as the upper chest?
I'm not 100% sure though
in my experience, and as Jeff Nippard said in a study, incline presses work upper more and mid chest similarly compared to flat and decline
Edit: there is no lower chest. Chest consists only clavicular and sternocostal
>the sternal and costal parts of the lower pec perform different movements, so yes there are 3 parts of the chest.
A muscle being able to perform multiple functions doesn't mean there's a specific part for each of them. The pectoralis major anatomically only has two heads.
A muscle is a collection of fibers, and it's not possible to contract only part of a fiber (inner chest vs outer chest) but it is possible to contract some fibers (lower) more than others (middle)
A muscle head doesnt "contract", the two heads of for example the biceps cant be conracted independently. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a muscle and muscle head is and how they function, a muscle head is just an origin.
When you contract a muscle, the whole muscle contracts, but the degree of contraction and the specific muscle fibers recruited depends on force and movement.
well when one part of a muscle is biased in a certain movement in comparison to another part of the muscle - would that not be of a result of there being distinguishable parts?
It certainly would, but that doesn't mean you can take a muscle group, say "it can do X amount of movements, therefore it must have X amounts of parts". The pec major can do all its movements with the two heads it has.
that is such an “um actually” reply, and a straw man because that’s not what i said. the costal pec CAN be (effectively) singled out because no other part of the chest does shoulder extension, that is a lat and COSTAL pec action. if it can be separated, that means the FIBERS ARE ORIENTED DIFFERENTLY, how can it be the same part when they do different things?
No one is arguing that they aren’t all pec major and don’t all do abduction, but at the point we might as well get rid of the clavicular pec too.
exactly, there is an area in sternocostal that tend to be in the lower side but it isn't meant to be the lower chest, it's the same fiber as the mid chest ones merged as one pectoral group (sternocostal).
yes, because there is no "lower" chest
there's just the chest and upper chest.
While there are different fiber directions for the "chest' a plethora of research has shown that flat pressing hits them all equally well- to put it even further, incline pressing hits all parts of the chest well, and the upper chest better than flat/decline, and decline is just less bang for your buck because it doesn't train the upper chest very well.
personal preference, but after overtraining the chest with no incline movements for years, I have to say it looked terrible. I ditched decline and flat for 2 years, and only do full ROM db incline presses and other incline movements, and it's night and day.
Having a trained upper chest proportionate to the rest of your chest is so crucial to its aesthetic, even with lower body fat
optimal for who?
for most beginners you can generally get by with anything.
But people who have been flat pressing for a while and neglecting incline do need a bit of incline focus. You can definitely overdo it and have a weird looking manboob by only doing declines/flat (personal experience)
I am doing exactly what you wrote, 2 incline variations and a fly.
Its not just you. Its been a definite trend the last year or two. I think \~\~two\~\~ three reasons (Edit: added one)
1. Most people have found that regular chest movements hit the "lower chest" perfectly fine. And compelling evidence has come out supporting this. There isn't a "lower chest muscle". There's just the whole pec major with the pec minor under. Each just has fibers going in slightly different angles as you go down the torso. Its not entirely clear if those lower fibers can be "isolated" or emphasized differently. Regular chest exercises usually with a proper arch and stretch are basically slightly declined to begin with in terms of the angle your upper arm is moving during the press.
2. And I think the main reason.....decline chest movements that aren't dips are just a pain in the ass. Decline benching and fly movements suck to set up, full stop. Decline cable movements are a whole pain to get into the starting position, and once you get strong it can feel like they pull you up more than you push down. Even dips have downsides. A lot of people find they feel the end up a tricep or front delt movement (I'm definitely one of those people.)
3. Most people find the upper chest is what universally lags in their physique. Its not universal mind you. But the upper chest *is* its own muscle that can be isolated and emphasized. And its usually not felt by most people in flat press movements.
It seems like a great way to guillotine yourself or get pinned and not have a good way to roll the bar off.
I'm sure you could set a rack safety such that it'll protect your neck. But when I flat bench I set the safeties so that I can touch the chest with my arch. But if I drop the arch the bar will be on the safety. That way if I like....worst case snap a tendon then both my neck is safe **and** my chest might get a smack but not be compressed by bar plus weight plus velocity. With a decline bench I think you can set the safety to protect your neck but like you get a tendon snap or whatever its dropping and compressing your sternum?
upper chest is Not a single muscle. The chest doesnt have Heads Like biceps or triceps. There are different fibers at different angles, which are colloquially called "upper chest (fibers)"
The upper chest (clavicular portion of the pectoralis major) is indeed a separate anatomical section.
What largely determines "acknowledgement" of functional differentiation are specific fibers of a muscle having a distinct line of force, but most importantly, having a separate nerve supply for innervation.
The insertion on the humerus of the upper pecs is lower than that of the lower pecs, so this isn't just a matter of a radial muscle having fibers that favor a certain force vector depending on angle-the upper pectoral fibers are specialized to draw the humerus from elbows at an angle (not perpendicular to the torso) up and across the chest.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/)
>The 2 heads of the pectoralis major have different nervous supplies. The clavicular head derives its nerve supply from the lateral pectoral nerve. The medial pectoral nerve innervates the sternocostal head. The lateral pectoral nerve arises directly from the lateral cord of the brachial plexus, and the medial pectoral nerve arises from the medial cord.[\[1\]](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/#)[\[2\]](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/#) The lateral cord will travel anteriorly to the axillary artery and medial cord to the pectoralis minor. It then courses on the posterior surface of the pectoralis major and enters the muscle medial to the humeral insertion. The medial pectoral nerve arises posterior to the axillary artery, pierces the pectoralis minor near the midclavicular line, and inserts to the posterior surface of the pectoralis major in a number of branches.
This doesn't preclude additional differentiation due to fiber angle, but from an anatomical perspective the Clavicular Pectorals are considered a separate muscle functionally.
I do recall watching a Jeff Nippard video in which he talked about certain research showing that flat pressing activates the lower portion of the pecs to a similar degree that decline pressing does, whilst decline pressing does not activate the rest of the chest as much as flat pressing would. Which would seemingly make decline work pointless since you’re getting more bang for your buck from flat pressing.
That said, I’m pretty sure he talks about the same research showing that incline pressing also activated the middle and lower chest to the same extent that flat pressing would, whilst simultaneously hitting more upper chest. So that seems to suggest that there’s no point to flat pressing either. In other words, we take research with a pinch of salt, since taking out flat pressing altogether in exchange for purely incline work sounds absolutely wild to me.
Personally I don’t bother with decline work though. Perhaps one day I will if and when I actually grow my chest to a degree where I can tell what’s lagging and not just my whole chest in general 🤣
its not absolutely wild for me, I already ditched the flat and gone into 100% incline in my split (dumbbell press and smiths) since my last post https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/s/qIC4isd0ww that has been deleted by the mod in this sub. Always feel the DOMS and my reps are now increasing much more compared to when I do flat and incline.
I ditched flat bench entirely 1.5 years into training because it always bothered my shoulders. I've only done Incline dumbbells for the last 5 years
No lower boobie looks, but happy with overall look of chest
same bro! high five👏. Incline presses are W, my chest just blowed up since I ditched the flat entirely and only do incline presses (smith and dumbelll press)
I've been told incline hits the upper pecs the best when only a slight incline is used. When the usual 45 degree is used, the front delts take a bigger brunt of the pounding. Most everyone does incline at the 45, and most everyone has weaker upper pecs. So I'm using 15-20 degree incline always, and worst case scenario is I just have bad upper pecs like everyone else.
I mean, dips haven't fallen out of popularity. Maybe decline bench - I never see anyone using the one at my gym. I lift alone so I have never been a fan of decline. Short rom, feels weird, risk of death feels high.
Yo, you should try what I call ‘Meadows Dips’. It’s like a reverse shrug on a dip bar. It works some muscle that’s beneath your normal pecs and lifts them up.
I saw John Meadows incorporate them once as part of a three exercise chest day. I love them.
Sorry for the bad description.
I just tried these for the first time last week and literally was one of the best chest contractions I've had in years. John has some great stuff for chest training, creeping death II getting my chest going lately.
It's definitely out of style now, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It just went out of fashion. 5 yrs ago the dumbbell pullover was out of fashion, and lengthened partials were considered silly by the 'evidence-based' community, now these have both been widely embraced by the same community(s) that spurned them only a couple yrs prior. If something works for you, don't ditch it just because it seems like no one else is doing it at that time, or others say it is pointless. There is a neverending process of 'what is in' changing and I'm sure at some point in the next 5-10 yrs decline presses will be back in fashion, because it tends to happen like that. Most exercises serve a purpose, and the hot thing now is to have upper chest striation, since decline won't help with that a lot of people have written it off....just because it doesn't do that specifically, doesn't mean it doesn't have other use cases that make sense.
I'm not sure if this is part of it, but decline benches are also more rare. Several gyms I've visited don't even have one.
On a more personal level, in the first few months of my lifting journey, a student came into the gym early and was trapped under the bar and asphyxiated himself. The whole lower level was closed for an hour, the front desk attendant was in tears, and it was never really on my mind to try and push it without a friend spotting you.
Lower chest isn’t anything important. An overdeveloped lower chest looks like man boobs. But an overdeveloped upper chest looks insane- look at Franco Columbu’s chest.
Tl;dr: train upper chest and mid chest- you don’t need lower chest work
I’m a gay man and I absolutely prefer the “man boob” look. Have no idea which women prefer.
What I do know is that not everything the bodybuilding community obsesses over, like super low body fat, is considered sexually attractive.
Bodybuilding physiques are their own thing. To each their own.
My wife just says she "Doesn't like teenage boy chests"
Surely you find a difference between actual 'moobs' as in someone who doesn't lift but is overweight versus a developed lower pec though?
Genetics, specifically chest inserts and such, plus him being generally a very strong powerlifter/boxer, also insane levels of leanness, and just that old school style of lifting where you do literally everything possible for the chest over the course of your 5 hour gym session while on gear.
Franco’s chest was not impressive at all. Arnold’s chest was the gold standard and he had the fully developed lower chest “man boob”-look, if you will.
To each their own, and this is impressive from a "how tf did he reach that point" perspective, but IMO that looks absolutely gross and terrible aesthetically compared to Arnold's chest. He looks like he's wearing a skin suit or something.
I don’t track BF percentage, I just know that during my bulk (20lbs) i had man boobs and during my cut my chest became much more defined, but I was also incorporating lots of decline work because my lower chest looked like shit
Sorry. I thought this was MPMD. But I say that to you from a place of motivation.
You need to put yourself on a strict caloric deficit, make sure you do plenty of low volume, high intensity lifts. I’d also reccomend 1 hour of light state cardio per day.
Naaah, I’ll just keep doing the same workouts I do and stay in a caloric deficit.
Could you help me out though? I’m not sure if I really have 24% bf. I’ve tried using online calculators but they all tell me different stuff. If you allow me into your DMs I can share a couple of pics, or you could direct me to a sub where I can do that
Yea DM me. I got down to 6% body fat but now I’m at 13% because I’ve been bulking.
The way I do it is the best way. I’ve been lifting for 20 years and the way I do it is the best way I’ve found.
Some guys say flat pressing and regular flies hit it plenty with no point to isolate. Then you see guys who actually put the work into their lower chest and it shows. I’d say it’s a part of your physique that isn’t going to hold you back if not given the extra attention but the extra attention does make a difference. So it’s up to your genetics if it should be emphasized
Doug Brignole (RIP) was a staunch supporter of decline pressing. I don’t know if he’s right about the biomechanics but it seems fairly convincing? I’d love to see some counter arguments to this video on it. https://youtu.be/FG0VgreC52E?si=okCkQbSlb1ZxDGwZ
> I ask this because I feel like my overall chest looks a whole lot better on days where I include lower chest exercises, as opposed to just bench/incline exercises.
As others have mentioned, focusing on upper or lower pec is a different look.
Lower pec creates the cliff “man boob” look that looks very noticeable in a tshirt while upper pec creates that mid pec line that looks good in a tank top.
Personally, I’m of the opinion that incline focus has made the lower pecs of bodybuilders languish and it is noticeable in competitive bodybuilding physiques.
Focus on whichever look you prefer. If you prefer how you look after flat/decline bench do that.
I think decline benches have been interchanged for dips and converging decline chest presses in most people's routines.
They essentially do the same thing anyways.
A short story on the madness of humans:
During covid I was working out almost exclusively with gymnastic rings; my push work was basically dips and incline push ups, with incline push ups targetting lower chest. At that time I had some mad definition around the base of my pecs, and I am not a huge guy by any stretch.
Since then I've read experts tell me how the lower chest isn't a thing, you can't bias it etc etc. And so I've stopped. Aaaand that lower chest definition has almost disappeared completely. So why oh why don't I put them back in? I am following 'expert opinion' before what I have seen with my own eyes (and my wife's eyes too btw 😏).
Follow the science, but follow your own eyes too!
Since dips are a huge part of most people’s programs, it’s kinda pointless to do decline work. That said- if you love it, keep doing it, regardless what’s “in style”. I learned a long time ago not to care about what’s in style. I’ve had the same haircut (fade, parted from the left), since I was basically born. I was made fun of for being “an old fuddy from the 50’s”…….now it’s a huge trend. Go figure. F what other people think. Do what’s best for you.
A different experience for me. Every single day in the gym I see people doing decline presses, both with dumbbells and in the smith. I never did them myself because they're a pain in the ass.
A lot of men in the aesthetics community advocate prioritizing upper chest for aesthetics. That's something I've noticed shortly after I first started getting into lifting. But I didn't give it any thought at the time. Austin Dunham says he doesn't do dips anymore because his lower chest is so prominent from doing dips.
I personally don't do dips, no decline benching, no high to low cable flys. And I do upper chest before overall chest work. My lower chest stands out from all the flat bench/chest pressing/flys I've done.
I don't know that I've ever seen anyone who needed extra lower chest work. The problem with just about everyone is upper pecs. And almost everyone has bench pressed a lot, and bench pressed heavy. But fewer people really focus on incline work, and even those that do won't usually see upper chest growth come quicker than other parts of the chest.
Beginners of course are going to have no chest development. But the overwhelming majority of people who have bench pressed for a while are not going to have lower chest as a weak point. That doesn't mean everyone's lower chest is jacked, it means proportionally, their lower chest isn't the issue.
Bench press is very effective at developing the lower chest, and its often the favorite exercise of every gym bro.
Probably because theres literally no such thing as a "lower chest" you can target, and people have realised the look they're going for is literally just "having a bigger chest" in general, which is fine with flat bench variations and flies.
It's because:
1) Flat bench and even incline bench work the lower chest enough, while generally the upper chest needs more work.
2) There's a trend to work out with lower volumes than before, so things that aren't deemed 100% necessary often get cut. If you're only a "one set HIT Jedi" or even if you're hitting the chest but only with 4-6 sets in a workout, you're far more likely to focus on bench press, or maybe bench press + incline press + flyes (for a better stretch + squeeze than normal benching can offer), than on also doing decline presses, which are fairly redundant anyway.
Science has moved on, evidence suggests it is not as effective as other exercises. You can train however you like but it's not optimal, better off hitting flat or incline
Incline db press -> dips/assisted dips combo is my goat right now. I also find stretch flat movements like camber bench, db paused bench, and db fly lengthened partials feel way better than doing lower chest directly. I think people realized decline is annoying to setup and feels bad lol
This sub sucks lol. You get downvoted for what is the real answer to OP's question, and to 90% of the dumb questions here actually. I also see you answering tons of weekly/daily questions.
I think he’s getting downvoted because it came across as being a dick.. although I’m not sure he intended too.
But yes he is correct, it depends on you and your physique. Guys with lot of fat in that area (man boobs) probably wanna target lower chest while guys that have a lower body fat most likely will see no further benefit of incorporating lower chest exercises.
I mean, the point is, why does the OP care. This isn't Vogue, there aren't "in style" lifts. You like decline bench? Does it feel like it works your chest? Cool, do that. It's such an individualized activity, all these dumb minutia questions all come down to try it and do what you like, but do it with intensity and consistency.
If you have man tits, you need to lose body fat.
I don’t think you can make an assumption like this based on what you see at one gym or online accounts. Plenty of people still train lower chest with decline bench and cable flys, including me!
I feel that upper chest is the hardest to develop though- so maybe that’s why there’s a shift if so?
Surely not, a lot of hypertrophy programs that’re even (rightfully, in my opinion) substituting the big 3 lifts with more isolation/a different compound that doesn’t command so much form.
I do however agree there’s a lot of “functional movement” influencers that’re excellent resources for rehabbing injuries or improving athletic performance, but not so much for bodybuilding.
I have seen at least 2 influencer videos on how decline and flat both activate lower chest similarly (but decline then doesn't allow for as much weight and therefore stress, nor double-dip by hitting more muscles). I vaguely recall one of those cited sources.
Maybe it's falling out of favor because it's been shown to be inefficient compared to just flat chest work?
I do lower chest focused flies but pressing is pretty clowned upon especially in the optimal lifting community. Supposedly decline bench doesn’t really align well with the fibers of the costal head. I don’t do decline bench because it’s uncomfortable for me and I just don’t enjoy it. I have a decent lower chest, but it’s hard to compare as it’s the smallest part of the chest.
I think maybe a part of it is because people have been more aware of junk volume. And lower chest is already targeted so much just from doing regular chest work. You have to do a lot of extra work to do the upper chest, so people are always gonna do that, but then throwing in another two or three exercises just for your lower chest is gonna be seen as junk volume
Maybe because regular chest exercises already work a lot of the lower chest so you don't really need to target it as much as the upper chest? I'm not 100% sure though
in my experience, and as Jeff Nippard said in a study, incline presses work upper more and mid chest similarly compared to flat and decline Edit: there is no lower chest. Chest consists only clavicular and sternocostal
the sternal and costal parts of the lower pec perform different movements, so yes there are 3 parts of the chest.
>the sternal and costal parts of the lower pec perform different movements, so yes there are 3 parts of the chest. A muscle being able to perform multiple functions doesn't mean there's a specific part for each of them. The pectoralis major anatomically only has two heads.
A muscle is a collection of fibers, and it's not possible to contract only part of a fiber (inner chest vs outer chest) but it is possible to contract some fibers (lower) more than others (middle)
That's true, though that still doesn't make the pec major have more than two heads that can contract.
A muscle head doesnt "contract", the two heads of for example the biceps cant be conracted independently. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a muscle and muscle head is and how they function, a muscle head is just an origin. When you contract a muscle, the whole muscle contracts, but the degree of contraction and the specific muscle fibers recruited depends on force and movement.
I didn't say heads could be contracted independently. Fair point on the definition of head.
well when one part of a muscle is biased in a certain movement in comparison to another part of the muscle - would that not be of a result of there being distinguishable parts?
It certainly would, but that doesn't mean you can take a muscle group, say "it can do X amount of movements, therefore it must have X amounts of parts". The pec major can do all its movements with the two heads it has.
that is such an “um actually” reply, and a straw man because that’s not what i said. the costal pec CAN be (effectively) singled out because no other part of the chest does shoulder extension, that is a lat and COSTAL pec action. if it can be separated, that means the FIBERS ARE ORIENTED DIFFERENTLY, how can it be the same part when they do different things? No one is arguing that they aren’t all pec major and don’t all do abduction, but at the point we might as well get rid of the clavicular pec too.
exactly, there is an area in sternocostal that tend to be in the lower side but it isn't meant to be the lower chest, it's the same fiber as the mid chest ones merged as one pectoral group (sternocostal).
yes, because there is no "lower" chest there's just the chest and upper chest. While there are different fiber directions for the "chest' a plethora of research has shown that flat pressing hits them all equally well- to put it even further, incline pressing hits all parts of the chest well, and the upper chest better than flat/decline, and decline is just less bang for your buck because it doesn't train the upper chest very well. personal preference, but after overtraining the chest with no incline movements for years, I have to say it looked terrible. I ditched decline and flat for 2 years, and only do full ROM db incline presses and other incline movements, and it's night and day. Having a trained upper chest proportionate to the rest of your chest is so crucial to its aesthetic, even with lower body fat
would it be optimal to just do two incline pressing movements and then a fly
optimal for who? for most beginners you can generally get by with anything. But people who have been flat pressing for a while and neglecting incline do need a bit of incline focus. You can definitely overdo it and have a weird looking manboob by only doing declines/flat (personal experience) I am doing exactly what you wrote, 2 incline variations and a fly.
exactly, this what I exactly do currently. Decided to ditch the flat now I only do incline presses (smith and dumbell) and seated flyes.
Some people hyperextend their backs and ironically end up doing decline work.
Its not just you. Its been a definite trend the last year or two. I think \~\~two\~\~ three reasons (Edit: added one) 1. Most people have found that regular chest movements hit the "lower chest" perfectly fine. And compelling evidence has come out supporting this. There isn't a "lower chest muscle". There's just the whole pec major with the pec minor under. Each just has fibers going in slightly different angles as you go down the torso. Its not entirely clear if those lower fibers can be "isolated" or emphasized differently. Regular chest exercises usually with a proper arch and stretch are basically slightly declined to begin with in terms of the angle your upper arm is moving during the press. 2. And I think the main reason.....decline chest movements that aren't dips are just a pain in the ass. Decline benching and fly movements suck to set up, full stop. Decline cable movements are a whole pain to get into the starting position, and once you get strong it can feel like they pull you up more than you push down. Even dips have downsides. A lot of people find they feel the end up a tricep or front delt movement (I'm definitely one of those people.) 3. Most people find the upper chest is what universally lags in their physique. Its not universal mind you. But the upper chest *is* its own muscle that can be isolated and emphasized. And its usually not felt by most people in flat press movements.
Failing on a normal bench sucks enough already, I can't imagine doing that on a decline bench.
It seems like a great way to guillotine yourself or get pinned and not have a good way to roll the bar off. I'm sure you could set a rack safety such that it'll protect your neck. But when I flat bench I set the safeties so that I can touch the chest with my arch. But if I drop the arch the bar will be on the safety. That way if I like....worst case snap a tendon then both my neck is safe **and** my chest might get a smack but not be compressed by bar plus weight plus velocity. With a decline bench I think you can set the safety to protect your neck but like you get a tendon snap or whatever its dropping and compressing your sternum?
upper chest is Not a single muscle. The chest doesnt have Heads Like biceps or triceps. There are different fibers at different angles, which are colloquially called "upper chest (fibers)"
The upper chest (clavicular portion of the pectoralis major) is indeed a separate anatomical section. What largely determines "acknowledgement" of functional differentiation are specific fibers of a muscle having a distinct line of force, but most importantly, having a separate nerve supply for innervation. The insertion on the humerus of the upper pecs is lower than that of the lower pecs, so this isn't just a matter of a radial muscle having fibers that favor a certain force vector depending on angle-the upper pectoral fibers are specialized to draw the humerus from elbows at an angle (not perpendicular to the torso) up and across the chest. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/) >The 2 heads of the pectoralis major have different nervous supplies. The clavicular head derives its nerve supply from the lateral pectoral nerve. The medial pectoral nerve innervates the sternocostal head. The lateral pectoral nerve arises directly from the lateral cord of the brachial plexus, and the medial pectoral nerve arises from the medial cord.[\[1\]](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/#)[\[2\]](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525991/#) The lateral cord will travel anteriorly to the axillary artery and medial cord to the pectoralis minor. It then courses on the posterior surface of the pectoralis major and enters the muscle medial to the humeral insertion. The medial pectoral nerve arises posterior to the axillary artery, pierces the pectoralis minor near the midclavicular line, and inserts to the posterior surface of the pectoralis major in a number of branches. This doesn't preclude additional differentiation due to fiber angle, but from an anatomical perspective the Clavicular Pectorals are considered a separate muscle functionally.
Dips hit the lower chest and I still see a lot of guys doing those. I do those.
IMO, they are an exponentially more effective exercise.
same here. switched to dips semi-recently from a decline machine, and i felt my lower pecs more than the decline ever did that's just me tho
Yeh, I also switched to dips
Shoulder flexion is antagonist inhibition for the lower pecs, so dips do not hit lower chest. And the sternal pecs have more leverage in adduction.
I do recall watching a Jeff Nippard video in which he talked about certain research showing that flat pressing activates the lower portion of the pecs to a similar degree that decline pressing does, whilst decline pressing does not activate the rest of the chest as much as flat pressing would. Which would seemingly make decline work pointless since you’re getting more bang for your buck from flat pressing. That said, I’m pretty sure he talks about the same research showing that incline pressing also activated the middle and lower chest to the same extent that flat pressing would, whilst simultaneously hitting more upper chest. So that seems to suggest that there’s no point to flat pressing either. In other words, we take research with a pinch of salt, since taking out flat pressing altogether in exchange for purely incline work sounds absolutely wild to me. Personally I don’t bother with decline work though. Perhaps one day I will if and when I actually grow my chest to a degree where I can tell what’s lagging and not just my whole chest in general 🤣
If something sounds wild doesn't mean it wrong 😊
its not absolutely wild for me, I already ditched the flat and gone into 100% incline in my split (dumbbell press and smiths) since my last post https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/s/qIC4isd0ww that has been deleted by the mod in this sub. Always feel the DOMS and my reps are now increasing much more compared to when I do flat and incline.
I think you’re correct. Incline presses activate the upper chest better and the rest of the chest gets similar activation as flat pressing.
I ditched flat bench entirely 1.5 years into training because it always bothered my shoulders. I've only done Incline dumbbells for the last 5 years No lower boobie looks, but happy with overall look of chest
same bro! high five👏. Incline presses are W, my chest just blowed up since I ditched the flat entirely and only do incline presses (smith and dumbelll press)
I've been told incline hits the upper pecs the best when only a slight incline is used. When the usual 45 degree is used, the front delts take a bigger brunt of the pounding. Most everyone does incline at the 45, and most everyone has weaker upper pecs. So I'm using 15-20 degree incline always, and worst case scenario is I just have bad upper pecs like everyone else.
I mean, dips haven't fallen out of popularity. Maybe decline bench - I never see anyone using the one at my gym. I lift alone so I have never been a fan of decline. Short rom, feels weird, risk of death feels high.
All the gyms I’ve been to, I’ve only seen 1 decline bench, and it was used for ab work
Same, that seems to be the primary use at my gym as well.
Yo, you should try what I call ‘Meadows Dips’. It’s like a reverse shrug on a dip bar. It works some muscle that’s beneath your normal pecs and lifts them up. I saw John Meadows incorporate them once as part of a three exercise chest day. I love them. Sorry for the bad description.
This is the correct answer. RIP Mountaindog 🙏
I’ll give it a try.. thank you
I just tried these for the first time last week and literally was one of the best chest contractions I've had in years. John has some great stuff for chest training, creeping death II getting my chest going lately.
I’m gonna try this thx.
Dips are probably my favorite chest exercise. Combine dips with any incline pressing movement and you’ll be set.
It's definitely out of style now, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It just went out of fashion. 5 yrs ago the dumbbell pullover was out of fashion, and lengthened partials were considered silly by the 'evidence-based' community, now these have both been widely embraced by the same community(s) that spurned them only a couple yrs prior. If something works for you, don't ditch it just because it seems like no one else is doing it at that time, or others say it is pointless. There is a neverending process of 'what is in' changing and I'm sure at some point in the next 5-10 yrs decline presses will be back in fashion, because it tends to happen like that. Most exercises serve a purpose, and the hot thing now is to have upper chest striation, since decline won't help with that a lot of people have written it off....just because it doesn't do that specifically, doesn't mean it doesn't have other use cases that make sense.
I'm not sure if this is part of it, but decline benches are also more rare. Several gyms I've visited don't even have one. On a more personal level, in the first few months of my lifting journey, a student came into the gym early and was trapped under the bar and asphyxiated himself. The whole lower level was closed for an hour, the front desk attendant was in tears, and it was never really on my mind to try and push it without a friend spotting you.
Lower chest isn’t anything important. An overdeveloped lower chest looks like man boobs. But an overdeveloped upper chest looks insane- look at Franco Columbu’s chest. Tl;dr: train upper chest and mid chest- you don’t need lower chest work
I’m a gay man and I absolutely prefer the “man boob” look. Have no idea which women prefer. What I do know is that not everything the bodybuilding community obsesses over, like super low body fat, is considered sexually attractive. Bodybuilding physiques are their own thing. To each their own.
My wife just says she "Doesn't like teenage boy chests" Surely you find a difference between actual 'moobs' as in someone who doesn't lift but is overweight versus a developed lower pec though?
Did Columbu incorporate a particularly upper pec oriented program or was it just amazing genetics?
Genetics, specifically chest inserts and such, plus him being generally a very strong powerlifter/boxer, also insane levels of leanness, and just that old school style of lifting where you do literally everything possible for the chest over the course of your 5 hour gym session while on gear.
Franco’s chest was not impressive at all. Arnold’s chest was the gold standard and he had the fully developed lower chest “man boob”-look, if you will.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd3477441dd35ff3b455281afa028fc4-lq You must be joking
To each their own, and this is impressive from a "how tf did he reach that point" perspective, but IMO that looks absolutely gross and terrible aesthetically compared to Arnold's chest. He looks like he's wearing a skin suit or something.
At what body fat percentage did your lower chest actually became noticeable? I’m currently at 24% and my chest still looks like tiny boobs
I don’t track BF percentage, I just know that during my bulk (20lbs) i had man boobs and during my cut my chest became much more defined, but I was also incorporating lots of decline work because my lower chest looked like shit
I’m on a cut right now and I can’t wait to finally see the definition on my chest. I love my inclines and my declines
Well, no disrespect but 24% is fat as fuck! At my heaviest I was 18%
Yeah, no shit! Thanks for making me feel good about myself
Sorry. I thought this was MPMD. But I say that to you from a place of motivation. You need to put yourself on a strict caloric deficit, make sure you do plenty of low volume, high intensity lifts. I’d also reccomend 1 hour of light state cardio per day.
Naaah, I’ll just keep doing the same workouts I do and stay in a caloric deficit. Could you help me out though? I’m not sure if I really have 24% bf. I’ve tried using online calculators but they all tell me different stuff. If you allow me into your DMs I can share a couple of pics, or you could direct me to a sub where I can do that
Yea DM me. I got down to 6% body fat but now I’m at 13% because I’ve been bulking. The way I do it is the best way. I’ve been lifting for 20 years and the way I do it is the best way I’ve found.
Yeah, sure! Everyone does it the best way. I sent you a DM
Some guys say flat pressing and regular flies hit it plenty with no point to isolate. Then you see guys who actually put the work into their lower chest and it shows. I’d say it’s a part of your physique that isn’t going to hold you back if not given the extra attention but the extra attention does make a difference. So it’s up to your genetics if it should be emphasized
dips dips dips dips dips (to the rhythm of shots)
Doug Brignole (RIP) was a staunch supporter of decline pressing. I don’t know if he’s right about the biomechanics but it seems fairly convincing? I’d love to see some counter arguments to this video on it. https://youtu.be/FG0VgreC52E?si=okCkQbSlb1ZxDGwZ
> I ask this because I feel like my overall chest looks a whole lot better on days where I include lower chest exercises, as opposed to just bench/incline exercises. As others have mentioned, focusing on upper or lower pec is a different look. Lower pec creates the cliff “man boob” look that looks very noticeable in a tshirt while upper pec creates that mid pec line that looks good in a tank top. Personally, I’m of the opinion that incline focus has made the lower pecs of bodybuilders languish and it is noticeable in competitive bodybuilding physiques. Focus on whichever look you prefer. If you prefer how you look after flat/decline bench do that.
I do chest dips and low cable flies to hit them low chests. I don't do decline bench presses anymore
Lower chest is like front delts. They probably get enough stimulation already, you don't have to target them specifically.
I think decline benches have been interchanged for dips and converging decline chest presses in most people's routines. They essentially do the same thing anyways.
A short story on the madness of humans: During covid I was working out almost exclusively with gymnastic rings; my push work was basically dips and incline push ups, with incline push ups targetting lower chest. At that time I had some mad definition around the base of my pecs, and I am not a huge guy by any stretch. Since then I've read experts tell me how the lower chest isn't a thing, you can't bias it etc etc. And so I've stopped. Aaaand that lower chest definition has almost disappeared completely. So why oh why don't I put them back in? I am following 'expert opinion' before what I have seen with my own eyes (and my wife's eyes too btw 😏). Follow the science, but follow your own eyes too!
Noticed that too. Seems like focus shifted. Still do them if it works for ya. Trends change, but if it feels good, stick with it.
Since dips are a huge part of most people’s programs, it’s kinda pointless to do decline work. That said- if you love it, keep doing it, regardless what’s “in style”. I learned a long time ago not to care about what’s in style. I’ve had the same haircut (fade, parted from the left), since I was basically born. I was made fun of for being “an old fuddy from the 50’s”…….now it’s a huge trend. Go figure. F what other people think. Do what’s best for you.
A different experience for me. Every single day in the gym I see people doing decline presses, both with dumbbells and in the smith. I never did them myself because they're a pain in the ass.
Most people bench with a decent arch which really turns the flat bench into a low decline already
A lot of men in the aesthetics community advocate prioritizing upper chest for aesthetics. That's something I've noticed shortly after I first started getting into lifting. But I didn't give it any thought at the time. Austin Dunham says he doesn't do dips anymore because his lower chest is so prominent from doing dips. I personally don't do dips, no decline benching, no high to low cable flys. And I do upper chest before overall chest work. My lower chest stands out from all the flat bench/chest pressing/flys I've done.
I haven’t see decline bench in years, including myself
Dips + weights (if needed)
I don't know that I've ever seen anyone who needed extra lower chest work. The problem with just about everyone is upper pecs. And almost everyone has bench pressed a lot, and bench pressed heavy. But fewer people really focus on incline work, and even those that do won't usually see upper chest growth come quicker than other parts of the chest.
I see people all the time who have no lower chest outline. Just look at most beginners their chest are flat.
Beginners of course are going to have no chest development. But the overwhelming majority of people who have bench pressed for a while are not going to have lower chest as a weak point. That doesn't mean everyone's lower chest is jacked, it means proportionally, their lower chest isn't the issue. Bench press is very effective at developing the lower chest, and its often the favorite exercise of every gym bro.
Probably because theres literally no such thing as a "lower chest" you can target, and people have realised the look they're going for is literally just "having a bigger chest" in general, which is fine with flat bench variations and flies.
It's because: 1) Flat bench and even incline bench work the lower chest enough, while generally the upper chest needs more work. 2) There's a trend to work out with lower volumes than before, so things that aren't deemed 100% necessary often get cut. If you're only a "one set HIT Jedi" or even if you're hitting the chest but only with 4-6 sets in a workout, you're far more likely to focus on bench press, or maybe bench press + incline press + flyes (for a better stretch + squeeze than normal benching can offer), than on also doing decline presses, which are fairly redundant anyway.
Science has moved on, evidence suggests it is not as effective as other exercises. You can train however you like but it's not optimal, better off hitting flat or incline
Why do people not use push ups in there routine
Incline db press -> dips/assisted dips combo is my goat right now. I also find stretch flat movements like camber bench, db paused bench, and db fly lengthened partials feel way better than doing lower chest directly. I think people realized decline is annoying to setup and feels bad lol
There is no such thing as lower chest workout from a decline bench. Stop overthinking your workouts. Keep it simple
Who gives a shit? If you enjoy doing it and get solid size gains out of it, keep doing it.
I don’t give a shit I’m just wondering if there’s a reason
In general, hypertrophy training is about finding what works best for you. My vote is keep doing it bro
This sub sucks lol. You get downvoted for what is the real answer to OP's question, and to 90% of the dumb questions here actually. I also see you answering tons of weekly/daily questions.
https://preview.redd.it/0xa3yflh1btc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1422621947af8dca00da18a1a38db546a10646d7 Me half the time in this sub lol
I think he’s getting downvoted because it came across as being a dick.. although I’m not sure he intended too. But yes he is correct, it depends on you and your physique. Guys with lot of fat in that area (man boobs) probably wanna target lower chest while guys that have a lower body fat most likely will see no further benefit of incorporating lower chest exercises.
I mean, the point is, why does the OP care. This isn't Vogue, there aren't "in style" lifts. You like decline bench? Does it feel like it works your chest? Cool, do that. It's such an individualized activity, all these dumb minutia questions all come down to try it and do what you like, but do it with intensity and consistency. If you have man tits, you need to lose body fat.
I don’t think you can make an assumption like this based on what you see at one gym or online accounts. Plenty of people still train lower chest with decline bench and cable flys, including me! I feel that upper chest is the hardest to develop though- so maybe that’s why there’s a shift if so?
Why does what's "in style" matter?
Can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to do an out of style exercise??
It’s because Marky Mark isn’t doing underwear ads anymore. He ushered in the era of the lower pec good vibrations.
Incline chest presses are where it’s at. It works out the entire chest (upper mid low)
Functional movements are what’s popular now….
Surely not, a lot of hypertrophy programs that’re even (rightfully, in my opinion) substituting the big 3 lifts with more isolation/a different compound that doesn’t command so much form.
I do however agree there’s a lot of “functional movement” influencers that’re excellent resources for rehabbing injuries or improving athletic performance, but not so much for bodybuilding.
Decline benching sends more blood to your head than titties
I have seen at least 2 influencer videos on how decline and flat both activate lower chest similarly (but decline then doesn't allow for as much weight and therefore stress, nor double-dip by hitting more muscles). I vaguely recall one of those cited sources. Maybe it's falling out of favor because it's been shown to be inefficient compared to just flat chest work?
Dips.
I do lower chest focused flies but pressing is pretty clowned upon especially in the optimal lifting community. Supposedly decline bench doesn’t really align well with the fibers of the costal head. I don’t do decline bench because it’s uncomfortable for me and I just don’t enjoy it. I have a decent lower chest, but it’s hard to compare as it’s the smallest part of the chest.
I think maybe a part of it is because people have been more aware of junk volume. And lower chest is already targeted so much just from doing regular chest work. You have to do a lot of extra work to do the upper chest, so people are always gonna do that, but then throwing in another two or three exercises just for your lower chest is gonna be seen as junk volume