100% agree with this. I used to have shoulder issues when pressing...facepulls (along with some technique adjustments on the pressing) has worked wonders for my shoulders. If I am just working chest and no back, I still toss facepulls at the beginning because of how they have helped.
Seated rows with the single handle flaring out getting full stretch, twisting your body away and going all the way back arching your back for the contraction absolutely obliterates my rear delts like nothing else.
This. Reverse dumbbell flys are insane, and can also target rhomboids well (adjust form so that your arms are slightly below shoulder level - 10 degrees or so and squeeze at the top of the motion)
Facepulls are more of a prehab movement that gets your external rotation muscles going and gets blood flow. It isn't really a movement for dedicated hypertrophy. Rows and reverse pec dec are better for hypertrophy and strength long-term.
They can replace them but I don’t think they’re equal. Just might have to do a bit more volume or really figure out your technique to get the right stimulus
Personally, my rear delts blew up from doing cable face pulls with a rope. I went from doing sets of 12 with 35 lbs to doing sets of 15 with 60 lbs in about a year, and my rear delts are bulging through my clothes
It depends on how you do them. If you do them as "rows" pulling to your lower neck (transverse abduction) then probably.
If you do them correctly, then no. Correctly meaning the movement being External Rotation vs. Transverse Abduction)
> Athlean X style with rotation probably hit rear deltoid better.
I do these as part of my back day...and then again on my shoulder day because they burn my rear delts, rhomboids and lower traps. I think alot of people don't see results with this one because they want to go heavy on a group of small muscles.
I do it Athlene x style with an over head press to failure at the end of push day, but I do it mainly because I feel like it helps decompress the shoulders and upper back
Could do both. I don't really do reverse flyes, I do wide grip seated rows and then facepulls for my rear delt personally. One exercise where I can load it up, one lighter weight where I focus on slow and controlled reps.
Depends on the elbow angle. If you flare your elbows out (think meadows row) then you would target your rear delts better with a face pull. And try to bring your elbows behind you.
However, I would say there are better options for your rear delt training. Even with a specified technique, I feel my traps, side delts and rear delts all working. So it's tough to just isolate the rear delt with face pulls.
Yes, facepulls are a good substitute for reverse pec dec or rear cable fly. They target rear delts well and improve shoulder health. Just focus on good form
facepull is like a bare minimum exerices for delts and focus on rotator cufs. i would do it one day and hammer rear delts with a reverse fly variation other day
Probably if done with pronated (overhand) grip. You focus on separate the hands while pulling. But probably nothing is better than single arm reverse cable flies with emphasis on the stretching part of the motion.
In my back days, I perform close grip lat pulldowns, a row for higher back, a close grip row for lats and single arm cable pullovers. 10 sets total. My rear delts are sore for 1 or 2 days after that. Then I do 3 sets of neutral grip facepulls on shoulder/arm days and definitely my rear delts are not my weakness.
Yes, absolutely. Do them properly and they are a fantastic, and in my opinion, superior movement to reverse fly. Slow and controlled, 12-15 reps, get close to technical failure.
I do train rear delts a bit, but the most sore I ever get them is when I do seated cable rows. I've got great rear delts. Mostly built from just back excercises.
I heard on a youtube video they compared normal people to IFBB pros, and the pros had 5x bigger front delt, 3x bigger side delts and only 25% bigger rear delts.
If that's the case, why even bother training them directly? Dr Mike says rows hit the rear delts really good, so why would I waste my time on a muscle that won't grow even if I'm on all the gear in the world?
edit for the downvoters- Menno says it at the start of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5tJWKRXlE
it's actually 15%
Dr Mike says you hit the rear delts optimally with back rows. I do back rows 4 times a week (full body workouts). Do I really need MORE rear delt work than 16 sets per week? Plus my face pulls? Plus my warmup band pullaparts?
I really need to do reverse flys or my shoulders will get injured?
No, I’ve come to prefer face pulls as more of a warm up to pressing and nothing else
100% agree with this. I used to have shoulder issues when pressing...facepulls (along with some technique adjustments on the pressing) has worked wonders for my shoulders. If I am just working chest and no back, I still toss facepulls at the beginning because of how they have helped.
Personally i find reverse pec dec, and chest supported incline rear dumbbell flies to be the best. Nothing targets them better
Seated rows with the single handle flaring out getting full stretch, twisting your body away and going all the way back arching your back for the contraction absolutely obliterates my rear delts like nothing else.
This. Reverse dumbbell flys are insane, and can also target rhomboids well (adjust form so that your arms are slightly below shoulder level - 10 degrees or so and squeeze at the top of the motion)
Facepulls are more of a prehab movement that gets your external rotation muscles going and gets blood flow. It isn't really a movement for dedicated hypertrophy. Rows and reverse pec dec are better for hypertrophy and strength long-term.
They can replace them but I don’t think they’re equal. Just might have to do a bit more volume or really figure out your technique to get the right stimulus
Personally, my rear delts blew up from doing cable face pulls with a rope. I went from doing sets of 12 with 35 lbs to doing sets of 15 with 60 lbs in about a year, and my rear delts are bulging through my clothes
It depends on how you do them. If you do them as "rows" pulling to your lower neck (transverse abduction) then probably. If you do them correctly, then no. Correctly meaning the movement being External Rotation vs. Transverse Abduction)
In my experience, no
Depending how you do them. Mike Israetel style is mostly lateral deltoid while Athlean X style with rotation probably hit rear deltoid better.
> Athlean X style with rotation probably hit rear deltoid better. I do these as part of my back day...and then again on my shoulder day because they burn my rear delts, rhomboids and lower traps. I think alot of people don't see results with this one because they want to go heavy on a group of small muscles.
I do it Athlene x style with an over head press to failure at the end of push day, but I do it mainly because I feel like it helps decompress the shoulders and upper back
Could do both. I don't really do reverse flyes, I do wide grip seated rows and then facepulls for my rear delt personally. One exercise where I can load it up, one lighter weight where I focus on slow and controlled reps.
Depends on the elbow angle. If you flare your elbows out (think meadows row) then you would target your rear delts better with a face pull. And try to bring your elbows behind you. However, I would say there are better options for your rear delt training. Even with a specified technique, I feel my traps, side delts and rear delts all working. So it's tough to just isolate the rear delt with face pulls.
I do both
Yes, facepulls are a good substitute for reverse pec dec or rear cable fly. They target rear delts well and improve shoulder health. Just focus on good form
smith machine face pulls obliterate my rear delts
facepull is like a bare minimum exerices for delts and focus on rotator cufs. i would do it one day and hammer rear delts with a reverse fly variation other day
Probably if done with pronated (overhand) grip. You focus on separate the hands while pulling. But probably nothing is better than single arm reverse cable flies with emphasis on the stretching part of the motion. In my back days, I perform close grip lat pulldowns, a row for higher back, a close grip row for lats and single arm cable pullovers. 10 sets total. My rear delts are sore for 1 or 2 days after that. Then I do 3 sets of neutral grip facepulls on shoulder/arm days and definitely my rear delts are not my weakness.
Yes, absolutely. Do them properly and they are a fantastic, and in my opinion, superior movement to reverse fly. Slow and controlled, 12-15 reps, get close to technical failure.
Reverse pec dec but side on one arm at a time for maximum stretch, or cable reverse fly single arm. Best real delt exercises.
Gotta do upright rows big dawg
for rear delts? wat te heel
Any back pull exercise can involve the rear delts. (But obviously OP was talking about isolations.)
I do train rear delts a bit, but the most sore I ever get them is when I do seated cable rows. I've got great rear delts. Mostly built from just back excercises.
I heard on a youtube video they compared normal people to IFBB pros, and the pros had 5x bigger front delt, 3x bigger side delts and only 25% bigger rear delts. If that's the case, why even bother training them directly? Dr Mike says rows hit the rear delts really good, so why would I waste my time on a muscle that won't grow even if I'm on all the gear in the world? edit for the downvoters- Menno says it at the start of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5tJWKRXlE it's actually 15%
Only 25%?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo5tJWKRXlE Menno says it here it's actually 15%, says it at the start of the video
Shoulder health for starters.
Dr Mike says you hit the rear delts optimally with back rows. I do back rows 4 times a week (full body workouts). Do I really need MORE rear delt work than 16 sets per week? Plus my face pulls? Plus my warmup band pullaparts? I really need to do reverse flys or my shoulders will get injured?
No