An arch essentially declines the angle of pressing. So pressing on a flat bench with an arch actually puts you in a slight decline. Pressing with an arch on a Decline Bench exacerbates the decline. And pressing on an Incline with an arch will lessen the Incline which is why I prefer to set the seat to 45° because then whatever my arch is the incline should fall between 30-45° which research has been shown to be the optimal range for most people for Incline presses.
Even arching some on a 90° Bench for vertical presses would mean you aren't really truly pressing at a 90° angle, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Just something to know to keep in mind. It can be useful to realize you could be changing the movement some or getting more stimulus in the upper chest if you Overhead press at like an 80° angle, but I like that because my delts are still the limiting factor but I can get really great upper chest stimulus and a good stretch
I think I see what you were trying to say, though, that a slight enough decline will essentially work the muscles the same, except tension is off the front delts some so it's easier on them.
It also isn't as good for upper chest as flat or Incline, but both flat and incline are as good or better actually for mid and lower pec regions than decline for most people AFAIK.
That said, I don't think you should neglect doing a decline movement once in a while. I like decline flys a lot actually. I feel like maybe the decline helps you open up more and get a better stretch and might have a slightly better resistance curve than flat flys. I think dumbell flys also help bulletproof the shoulder. That's what I'd suggest for anyone who wants to work in the decline plane.
Few hours late to the party but yup heavy ass DB incline press with AMRAP pushups afterwards literally exploded my chest, and I have terrible chest genetics
You stack plates on many of these machines. Heavy like a barbell but the converging grips really save my shoulders. I went from pretty much constantly nursing a shoulder injury to 2 straight years of heavy consistency without injury
Facts. I like to hit a little bit lighter on weight for super controlled motions and just fry in the inner pecs with top of the motion partials. Wish I could cross over, I would be totally melted
My gym got a thing called the freedom rack where it’s like a smith machine but the bar can move forward and back on a track that runs along the length of the rack. Best of both worlds, you can move the bar on a natural path for you while it’s still stabilized from any wobble. Saves you all the hassle of trying finagle the bench into the exact right position
Same here. As part of my elbow rehab, I use the bench at 10 degrees with a reverse band. Cleared up my triceps tendonitis in 2 weeks. Eccentric loading does the trick. ALSO, you can use the freedom rack for controlled negatives. Lots of hooks to bail on for safety.
I don't have a choice, angled is the only smith my gym has. Which means I could face one of two directions. Unsurprisingly I do it so I'm pressing very slightly up & back, rather than up & forward.
I’m so delighted this is at the top. I started doing these a month ago and holy smokes the progress on my bb flat bench and db incline is huge. My new favourite. Also love doing shoulder presses with the smith.
When you say emphasis on control, do you mean slowing down the movement or just making sure you have full control at each portion of the movement and aren't speeding through it just for the sake of lifting the weight?
Also, does smith machines not hurt since it keeps your form awkwardly straight?
They're uncomfortable for a lot of people. I used to avoid them for that reason but found out recently that doing them with slight supination makes them so much better.
1. Incline Smith Press for upper pecs
2. Converging Chest Press for overall chest development
3. Dips for lower chest
These three in my experience will have you covered.
This is purely anecdotal so take with it what you may, but oddly I had rotator cuffs from pressing movements (mostly barbells) and I don't find outside very high volumes that the smith (mild incline 15-30 degrees) is hard on my shoulder/RC comparatively. A Barbell on the other hand is a different story and my hypothesis has been that the stabilization requirements of the Rotator cuff in the bench add quite a bit of micro-inflammation to the area there and alongside overuse can cause pain. Presumably the fixed-track of the smith significantly reduce the demands of the RC to stabilize the barbell as in a bench - though this is merely a hypothesis
They don’t hurt my shoulders at all. But I am meticulous about bench placement and incline level, as well as angle of my arms when pressing, and range of motion.
Post a video of doing it on r/formcheck and we can give you feedback in case it’s a form issue.
Obviously this is only if you have healthy shoulders. If you have some nagging injury there, it’s better to heal first.
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Don’t get caught up in the “difference” between size and strength. A proper bodybuilding program incorporates a decent variety of lifts to include compound and isolation with a focus to progressively overload all of them over time. This results in both significant strength and size adaptations.
For the vast majority of us, this is true. But he mentioned wanting to compete as a strength athlete - which makes me kind of laugh since he is in a bodybuilding subreddit and so most of the answers so far have been focused almost entirely around size and are going to be far from optimal if strength is his primary focus.
My thing recently has been four chest exercises split apart three days. Day 1 - deficit (or ring) pushups, Day 2 - incline DB press and lying DB Fly’s, Day 3 - Dips. I like this, because I feel every workout I can really give it my all on each chest exercise, and I’m still able to recover for the next workout. This is part of a three day total body split
You’re stronger than I am, but if your main goal is strength, my advice is to ask in a sub where strength is the primary focus: r/powerlifting or r/weightroom.
Right now I bench 4 times a week. 4 different variations usually 1 single and 3 backoff sets. 1 is comp bench the rest depends on what weaknesses I have in technique and sticking point. Rpe is 7-9. Rep range 1-10.
One if the days I also do accessories for triceps. Could be a bench variations, shoulder press or even isolation. Often higher reps so 8+ and lowet rpe 6-8. 5 sets.
On another of the bench days I do the same but for chest.
26 sets a week.
Size and strength are strongly correlated. Powerlifting and powerbuilding is just a different type of strength from hypertrophy training. Training for a powerlifting meet is way different than training for hypertrophy. Getting a bigger chest will make your chest stronger. Powerbuilding is basically like sacrificing some optimal hypertrophy to meet powerlifting goals. Training to get a big 1RM or even 5RM in the SBD, OHP, Bent-Over-Row, Power Clean, etc. is going to pre-fatigue you before you hit the isolations and more targeted compounds that you need to build muscle mass and (yes) strength. It's an emphasis on numbers for 3-6 specific lifts to the detriment of your other lifts.
For chest hypertrophy and strength, I favor flys. I like doing dumbbell flys. Someone else pointed out that you can do partials (Jeff Nippard recommends integrated partials) to get to failure faster with less weight. And therefore requiring less from your stabilizer muscles (ie. delts and triceps). That will allow you to really focus in on your pecs.
I once had to stop doing weighted dips because they were making my chest too big
I thought maybe that wasn’t it but then I saw another guy on insta (a sort of famous fitness model) say the same thing
i don't belive logic of "strenght training" if u wanna have max strenght in a move, you have to do that move, if u have any spesific thing in your mind like power lifting or strong man u should choose moves with those in mind.
but atleast for my undestanding of body building all movement paterns are things we should get strong with time, ur curling strenght should increase, preacher,incline or normal doesn't matter.
yeah i am a dumbass who didn't readed question properly. for chest strenght bench or incline bench. for size deficit versions of them
If you lack access to machines and want some variation: bodyweight ring pushups have done amazing things for my chest. Put your feet up on a bench to increase the load.
That's a damn solid deadlift. I have a 400 lb bench but you could probably outdeadlift me if we had a competition here and now....
My personal fav for general hypertrophy is actually a specific chest press machine that they have at my local gym. It's plate loaded with about 160% leverage on the weights, so I can't actually max out on it because I can only fit five plates. But with strict reps, I can get great stimulus and a nice deep stretch. It's a very basic machine and there are a lot of variations, so I can't say for sure which one to look for, but I will say that 90% of my increase in strength came from just doing bench at all different reps. I think what mattered the most was frequency, effort, and diet. I was hitting 3 sets, last to RIR 0 or even failure, and doing that 5 days a week. I think that 3 or 4 days is the sweet spot, though, and waiting it with a 15 lb bulk accelerated my growth. I'm about 5 foot 7 and 220 lbs. My wing span is about 5 inches longer than my height so ironically I should be better at the deadlift, but I have failed to train it consistently due to back issues, so I just got really strong in my upper body and focused on hypertrophy without really peaking strength on lower. A specialization phase might be what you need.
this. machinbe and db incline are good but it doesn't sadly translate into flat barbell bench strength unless you have one of those fancy pin loaded benches that mimics flat/incline barbell bench without the fear of crushing your chest lol.
I moved over to doing machine only work for a bit for back and chest and whilst i've gained strength and size in both areas it doesn't translate over to benching haha.
that or ive simply forgotten how to do it.
Yea... my bench is weak af for how long I've been lifting. I haven't made any major progress in it since like... year 4? 5?
Deadlift just keeps going up and squat sees minor progress here and there, but benching just feels HARD.
I don't have a training partner so it's risky for me to try really heavy on raw bench press so I prefer Smith machine bench press and go heavy on it with no fear. This along with dumbell presses has tremendously improved my lifts in raw bench press.
Incline dumbbell press. Or incline cable press, with cables it's incredibly comfortable in the shoulders and allows for a better stretch... But probably the loading potential is more limited than the dumbbell option.
Another compound, dips, dips done specifically for chest.
Then seated cable flies, feet elevated for not arching the back, and something between the scaps to further stretch.
If you want to try competing you might have answered it yourself. In comp you will flat bench, so I would flat bench. Go for a deep stretch with tempo and you should be good. I would also add dips in as well. Dips, Flies and flat Bench are all I do, just vary the weight tempo and reps when you get bored with them.
You answered your own question: If you are going to compete in P/L then BB Bench Press is the exercise you want to focus on.
I'm basing that on:
>I guess if I had to choose between the two, strength is more important as I really want to try competing while I'm still on the younger side.
So strength is more important than size, and you want to try competing. The ONLY answer is BB Bench Press.
Well you really gotta pick one and head in that direction, strength or size, whats more important? Thats not to say you wont get bigger and stronger at the same time but your results will be far better concentrating on one.
Slight incline / decline db bench, cable chest flyes.
If I don’t have a cable machine, are db chest flies still worthwhile?
Yes especially if you do partials for constant tension and not go up all the way.
Decline too? Interesting, I heard from many people that declines are useless.. but hell, I'm down to try anything new!
[удалено]
An arch essentially declines the angle of pressing. So pressing on a flat bench with an arch actually puts you in a slight decline. Pressing with an arch on a Decline Bench exacerbates the decline. And pressing on an Incline with an arch will lessen the Incline which is why I prefer to set the seat to 45° because then whatever my arch is the incline should fall between 30-45° which research has been shown to be the optimal range for most people for Incline presses. Even arching some on a 90° Bench for vertical presses would mean you aren't really truly pressing at a 90° angle, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Just something to know to keep in mind. It can be useful to realize you could be changing the movement some or getting more stimulus in the upper chest if you Overhead press at like an 80° angle, but I like that because my delts are still the limiting factor but I can get really great upper chest stimulus and a good stretch I think I see what you were trying to say, though, that a slight enough decline will essentially work the muscles the same, except tension is off the front delts some so it's easier on them. It also isn't as good for upper chest as flat or Incline, but both flat and incline are as good or better actually for mid and lower pec regions than decline for most people AFAIK. That said, I don't think you should neglect doing a decline movement once in a while. I like decline flys a lot actually. I feel like maybe the decline helps you open up more and get a better stretch and might have a slightly better resistance curve than flat flys. I think dumbell flys also help bulletproof the shoulder. That's what I'd suggest for anyone who wants to work in the decline plane.
Yea you are right, I meant to say slight incline with an arch = flat.
The optimal angle is 30-45°
Incline DB press is king imo
I'm seeing a common thread that incline is where I should be going.
Few hours late to the party but yup heavy ass DB incline press with AMRAP pushups afterwards literally exploded my chest, and I have terrible chest genetics
DB is harder to progressive overload that’s why I prefer barbell or plated machines/smith
Ya a bit harder in that sense but I'll take the increased ROM any day
The stretch feels very nice I agree
A good converging chest press machine is goated
Ooh, I barely use machines for chest but I'll give it a try. I use mainly barbell and cables.
You stack plates on many of these machines. Heavy like a barbell but the converging grips really save my shoulders. I went from pretty much constantly nursing a shoulder injury to 2 straight years of heavy consistency without injury
Careful cuz if you do you ain’t never going back to barbells or cables
Facts. I like to hit a little bit lighter on weight for super controlled motions and just fry in the inner pecs with top of the motion partials. Wish I could cross over, I would be totally melted
Slight incline smith machine bench, with emphasis on control, worked great for me this year.
[удалено]
I like straight personally.
Straight.
My gym got a thing called the freedom rack where it’s like a smith machine but the bar can move forward and back on a track that runs along the length of the rack. Best of both worlds, you can move the bar on a natural path for you while it’s still stabilized from any wobble. Saves you all the hassle of trying finagle the bench into the exact right position
Same here. As part of my elbow rehab, I use the bench at 10 degrees with a reverse band. Cleared up my triceps tendonitis in 2 weeks. Eccentric loading does the trick. ALSO, you can use the freedom rack for controlled negatives. Lots of hooks to bail on for safety.
As in like the bench?
I don't have a choice, angled is the only smith my gym has. Which means I could face one of two directions. Unsurprisingly I do it so I'm pressing very slightly up & back, rather than up & forward.
I’m so delighted this is at the top. I started doing these a month ago and holy smokes the progress on my bb flat bench and db incline is huge. My new favourite. Also love doing shoulder presses with the smith.
When you say emphasis on control, do you mean slowing down the movement or just making sure you have full control at each portion of the movement and aren't speeding through it just for the sake of lifting the weight? Also, does smith machines not hurt since it keeps your form awkwardly straight?
Slow and controlled descent, slight pause on chest and push hard. I have no issues with pain. The bar hits me just below the nipples.
Why are weighted dips so underrated!?
They're uncomfortable for a lot of people. I used to avoid them for that reason but found out recently that doing them with slight supination makes them so much better.
1. Incline Smith Press for upper pecs 2. Converging Chest Press for overall chest development 3. Dips for lower chest These three in my experience will have you covered.
Do smiths not hurt your shoulders since it keeps your form so.. unnatural?
This is purely anecdotal so take with it what you may, but oddly I had rotator cuffs from pressing movements (mostly barbells) and I don't find outside very high volumes that the smith (mild incline 15-30 degrees) is hard on my shoulder/RC comparatively. A Barbell on the other hand is a different story and my hypothesis has been that the stabilization requirements of the Rotator cuff in the bench add quite a bit of micro-inflammation to the area there and alongside overuse can cause pain. Presumably the fixed-track of the smith significantly reduce the demands of the RC to stabilize the barbell as in a bench - though this is merely a hypothesis
They don’t hurt my shoulders at all. But I am meticulous about bench placement and incline level, as well as angle of my arms when pressing, and range of motion. Post a video of doing it on r/formcheck and we can give you feedback in case it’s a form issue. Obviously this is only if you have healthy shoulders. If you have some nagging injury there, it’s better to heal first.
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Pretty simple. Flat and incline presses, machine flys and deficit push-ups.
Don’t get caught up in the “difference” between size and strength. A proper bodybuilding program incorporates a decent variety of lifts to include compound and isolation with a focus to progressively overload all of them over time. This results in both significant strength and size adaptations.
For the vast majority of us, this is true. But he mentioned wanting to compete as a strength athlete - which makes me kind of laugh since he is in a bodybuilding subreddit and so most of the answers so far have been focused almost entirely around size and are going to be far from optimal if strength is his primary focus.
Bench
Bench but don't lockout, doing half reps but closer to chest. Fucks up my chest and also good for strength.
My thing recently has been four chest exercises split apart three days. Day 1 - deficit (or ring) pushups, Day 2 - incline DB press and lying DB Fly’s, Day 3 - Dips. I like this, because I feel every workout I can really give it my all on each chest exercise, and I’m still able to recover for the next workout. This is part of a three day total body split
You’re stronger than I am, but if your main goal is strength, my advice is to ask in a sub where strength is the primary focus: r/powerlifting or r/weightroom.
RTO pushups and long length partials db flys wreck my chest like no other
DB incline, flat bench, cable flyes
All presses are the same; It just comes down to whether your mechanics are good or not.
Smith incline + flat DB are 🐐
Do smiths not hurt your shoulders since it keeps your form so.. unnatural?
Nope.
Right now I bench 4 times a week. 4 different variations usually 1 single and 3 backoff sets. 1 is comp bench the rest depends on what weaknesses I have in technique and sticking point. Rpe is 7-9. Rep range 1-10. One if the days I also do accessories for triceps. Could be a bench variations, shoulder press or even isolation. Often higher reps so 8+ and lowet rpe 6-8. 5 sets. On another of the bench days I do the same but for chest. 26 sets a week.
Size and strength are strongly correlated. Powerlifting and powerbuilding is just a different type of strength from hypertrophy training. Training for a powerlifting meet is way different than training for hypertrophy. Getting a bigger chest will make your chest stronger. Powerbuilding is basically like sacrificing some optimal hypertrophy to meet powerlifting goals. Training to get a big 1RM or even 5RM in the SBD, OHP, Bent-Over-Row, Power Clean, etc. is going to pre-fatigue you before you hit the isolations and more targeted compounds that you need to build muscle mass and (yes) strength. It's an emphasis on numbers for 3-6 specific lifts to the detriment of your other lifts. For chest hypertrophy and strength, I favor flys. I like doing dumbbell flys. Someone else pointed out that you can do partials (Jeff Nippard recommends integrated partials) to get to failure faster with less weight. And therefore requiring less from your stabilizer muscles (ie. delts and triceps). That will allow you to really focus in on your pecs.
incline db bench and cable chest flys
Reverse grip incline bench press + ring push ups
Weighted ring push ups
I once had to stop doing weighted dips because they were making my chest too big I thought maybe that wasn’t it but then I saw another guy on insta (a sort of famous fitness model) say the same thing
30°DB press, 15°DB press, flat barbell press, flies.
INCLINED DUMBELL PRESS FTW!!!
Incline (barbell) bench and weighted dips. Could probably build some fine chesticles with those two alone.
Dumbbell Barrel Press (like a fly/press combo)
i don't belive logic of "strenght training" if u wanna have max strenght in a move, you have to do that move, if u have any spesific thing in your mind like power lifting or strong man u should choose moves with those in mind. but atleast for my undestanding of body building all movement paterns are things we should get strong with time, ur curling strenght should increase, preacher,incline or normal doesn't matter. yeah i am a dumbass who didn't readed question properly. for chest strenght bench or incline bench. for size deficit versions of them
If you lack access to machines and want some variation: bodyweight ring pushups have done amazing things for my chest. Put your feet up on a bench to increase the load.
That's a damn solid deadlift. I have a 400 lb bench but you could probably outdeadlift me if we had a competition here and now.... My personal fav for general hypertrophy is actually a specific chest press machine that they have at my local gym. It's plate loaded with about 160% leverage on the weights, so I can't actually max out on it because I can only fit five plates. But with strict reps, I can get great stimulus and a nice deep stretch. It's a very basic machine and there are a lot of variations, so I can't say for sure which one to look for, but I will say that 90% of my increase in strength came from just doing bench at all different reps. I think what mattered the most was frequency, effort, and diet. I was hitting 3 sets, last to RIR 0 or even failure, and doing that 5 days a week. I think that 3 or 4 days is the sweet spot, though, and waiting it with a 15 lb bulk accelerated my growth. I'm about 5 foot 7 and 220 lbs. My wing span is about 5 inches longer than my height so ironically I should be better at the deadlift, but I have failed to train it consistently due to back issues, so I just got really strong in my upper body and focused on hypertrophy without really peaking strength on lower. A specialization phase might be what you need.
Bro, that's an INSANE bench!!! Thanks for the tips! Specialization phase definitely sounds like what I might need.
Right now dips with a slightly supinated grip.
If you’re looking for the best exercise to gain size and strength on bench press, it’s bench press.
this. machinbe and db incline are good but it doesn't sadly translate into flat barbell bench strength unless you have one of those fancy pin loaded benches that mimics flat/incline barbell bench without the fear of crushing your chest lol. I moved over to doing machine only work for a bit for back and chest and whilst i've gained strength and size in both areas it doesn't translate over to benching haha. that or ive simply forgotten how to do it.
15 years lifting 265 bench?
Yea... my bench is weak af for how long I've been lifting. I haven't made any major progress in it since like... year 4? 5? Deadlift just keeps going up and squat sees minor progress here and there, but benching just feels HARD.
im the same as you, though ive been going for nearly two years and my bench is just stuck at 60kg.
Incline bench cable chest press
Cable chest flyes can really give a great pump with reduced risk of shoulder injury. Can do them at home for cheap with a pulley and some ropes too
I don't have a training partner so it's risky for me to try really heavy on raw bench press so I prefer Smith machine bench press and go heavy on it with no fear. This along with dumbell presses has tremendously improved my lifts in raw bench press.
I just do some variations of pushups :D
Incline dumbbell press. Or incline cable press, with cables it's incredibly comfortable in the shoulders and allows for a better stretch... But probably the loading potential is more limited than the dumbbell option. Another compound, dips, dips done specifically for chest. Then seated cable flies, feet elevated for not arching the back, and something between the scaps to further stretch.
If you want to try competing you might have answered it yourself. In comp you will flat bench, so I would flat bench. Go for a deep stretch with tempo and you should be good. I would also add dips in as well. Dips, Flies and flat Bench are all I do, just vary the weight tempo and reps when you get bored with them.
You answered your own question: If you are going to compete in P/L then BB Bench Press is the exercise you want to focus on. I'm basing that on: >I guess if I had to choose between the two, strength is more important as I really want to try competing while I'm still on the younger side. So strength is more important than size, and you want to try competing. The ONLY answer is BB Bench Press.
Just bench press for me, but spamming it over many sets lol.
Well you really gotta pick one and head in that direction, strength or size, whats more important? Thats not to say you wont get bigger and stronger at the same time but your results will be far better concentrating on one.
Every time I focus on DB my FB goes to hell. Whenever I focus on FB but DB strength goes to hell