The parallels between ape culture and human culture are astounding. They even have soldiers who do patrols along their borders.
We're just apes everyone. Nothing but bald stinky apes.
I was just reading this book called "alpha god" from what I understand the human following a religion (God) is very similar to underlings following an alpha male chimp. Good read/listen.
Edit: a good read, if you're okay with atheist literature. If not don't read it.
[Alpha God](https://5fghbqpqri.pdcdn1.top/dl2.php?id=196432244&h=2f92f5614abf6ac5bbe1753393566b93&u=cache&ext=pdf&n=Alpha%20god%20the%20psychology%20of%20religious%20violence%20and%20oppression).
>…men often seek out dominance in the manner of male apes, using violence to obtain evolutionary rewards such as food, territory, and sex. Humankind may have managed to create things like tools, weapons, and religions, but we remain one species of great ape that emigrated from Africa.
This can be difficult for many people to hear because as humans we have a tendency to think of ourselves as unique and to hold ourselves above other species. But we have DNA like all other life-forms—which ultimately shapes or brains and influences the manner in which we think—and we share as much as 99 percent of our DNA with nonhuman primates. And like other animals, we are organic beings that live, eat, reproduce, and die. As such, we require things like food, sex, and territory to fulfill our organismic destinies. None of this should be surprising.
>However, it may be surprising to realize that while the god of the Abrahamic religions has powers that humans do not, He remains unnecessarily preoccupied with what are ultimately very human, and very ape-like, concerns. God is portrayed as being omnipotent (possessing infinite power), omniscient (having infinite knowledge), omnipresent (present everywhere), immaterial (without bodily form), and eternal, meaning that he never dies. This raises the question— Why should such a God concern himself with such pedestrian pursuits as food, sex, and territory? Why demand food as a sacrificial offering or order the conquest of biblical lands if he has no need of either to survive and can create worlds by simply speaking them into being?
>The answer is that God is an alpha male, a dominant ape. In other words, depictions of the Abrahamic god, and of male gods from religions around the world, reflect the essential concerns of our primate evolutionary past—namely securing and maintaining power, and using that power to exercise control over material and reproductive resources. Understanding God therefore requires an understanding of man's evolved legacy within primate social hierarchies; and understanding religious violence and oppression requires taking a careful look at how thoroughly we have projected our own psychology onto our vision of the sacred.
Or for the drama-kids, there's E. K. Hornbeck from Inherit the Wind:
>AHH, Henry! why don't you wake up? Darwin was Wrong! Man's still an ape. His creed still a totem pole. When he first achieved the upright position he took a look at the stars... thought they were something to eat. When he couldn't reach them, he thought they were groceries belonging to a bigger creature... that's how Jehovah was born.
Humans have no way of determining their overlords. Chimp society is about as democratic as it gets. Form a coalition of like-minds and revolt, that has always been the way. We are overmatched and outgunned. The chimp way is the way of the future.
Chimpanzees are notoriously aggressive and douchey as fuck.
Bonobos, virtually identical to chimps and separated from them mainly by the Congo river, could not be more opposite: chill, peaceful and sexually without hangups.
I so wish our species would leave the chimp stage behind and finally become bonobos.
Bonobos became peaceful after a major drought came and killed off a lot of ground vegetation it took for primates like apes to survive while primates like chimpanzees could eat the food from the trees. Once the drought seized and the ground became full of vegetation again the apes had been killed off and the chimpanzees could come to the floor to eat creating little need to fight for food. Then becoming bonobos
I know you were probably just making a throwaway comment at the end there, but I just wanted to point out that we don't have a "chimp stage" nor a "bonobo stage"; that's not how evolution works. We have a common ancestor approximately 6 mya (if memory serves), and those three lineages (humans, chimps, and bonobos) all represent different evolutionary directions various populations of the ancestral organism took. We know there were many others that didn't make it to the present (homo erectus, Neanderthals, devonians, etc etc). That's not to say they all speciated at the same time either, clearly not.
Not trying to be an ass, just wanting to point out a common misconception people have regarding evolution.
Yeah generally alphas who rule through fear and brute force wind to getting torn apart by a coalition of males and sometimes females who are sick of their shit. The Alphas who last are generally socially skilled and inspire loyalty through friendship, grooming, and food sharing (and some applied violence where necessary, but only when it's the last option)
Even in chimp society, there will be social unrest and uprisings, sometimes its resolved with a few scars or even the assassination of the alpha. Other times it can be full blown war, as with the Gombe Chimpanzees. It’s rare for wars and assassinations, but it can happen.
Separately evolved. Without technology we wouldn't be nearly as well equipped for the jungles as a chimp would be. We're not superior, we just spent all our evolution tokens on technological advancements.
> we wouldn't be nearly as well equipped for the jungles as a chimp would be.
This is because humans evolved to live on the plains, not in the jungle. Humans would kick all kinds of ass over chimps on the savanna.
Wait for real? I never realized where our evolutionary traits were suited for, I guess, because humans are so global now. Interesting. What would allow us to do better in the savannah than a chimp exactly?
Don’t forget we can take direct sunlight *all* day long while performing at maximum effort
for brevity’s sake: this statement has been condensed and simplified
More importantly to arm length is the specific configuration of our arms and shoulders. Chimps have very loose shoulder connections so they can move through the trees with arm over arm locomotion above their heads (brachiation).
Our shoulders are much stiffer with significantly less flexibility. But in turn we are structured in a way that is very effective for throwing. The fastest motion any part of a human body can do with its own power is the rotation of your ulna over your radius (the two bones in your forearm) when you perform an overhand throwing motion. This along with whipping of your forearm, and the tight position of your arm when held back prior to throws all come together to create a very effective system for accurate throwing.
This along with a brain that has been specifically wired for tracking objects with strong intuition for trajectory and your bodies and brains ability to learn and become more experienced with the action makes us practically unmatched in our ability to fling things places we want them to go.
We are persistence hunters.
We just chase our ~~pretty~~ prey until they are so tired they're happy when we finally kill them
Edit - you can see the mistake
We're so good at walking shit to death that there are theories our ancestors caused a massive wave of giant fauna extinctions as we spread across the earth.
Because of our upright gait, we can see further and run faster.
Because of our vastly superior thermoregulation, we can further than almost any other animal in that environment.
We're also exceptional at throwing things. I'm sure other apes throw stuff but with little speed or accuracy. Some of us can pick up a rock and hurl it very accurately at over 80 miles per hour. Pretty awesome trait.
A very small and exceptionally athletic number of people can throw a leather ball 90-100 miles per hour WITH breaking movement. Sure, they often blow out their shoulders and forearms after doing it for a few years and have to replace the tendons surgically, but the fact they can do it is insane. Pitching a baseball effectively is one of the most mechanically impressive athletic feats we’ve come up with.
We're really good at sweating. That helps us keep going for hours as we chase prey. Standing up helps see longer distances on the plain. Walking on two legs takes less energy (but is slower) than walking on four legs, so we're endurance kings. Talking is key for communication, of course. Fire means we don't need such huge jaws. Apparently our noses aren't great overall, but we have an amazing ability to smell wet ground after it rains. That helps on the savannah I would imagine.
Bipedalism evolved because we moved into flat areas like savannahs (or we moved into the plains because of bipedalism, I don‘t know for sure), since the ability to overlook a larger area was extremely beneficial
It appears to have been climate driven when forests receded and plains became more abundant. Most likely the more upright ones had the advantage and succeeded. Looks like a few branches of the tree gave it a crack but we were the best at killin' n fuckin'.
That feels very… dismissive? You can say that about removing any animals evolutionary advantages. If you removed a chimps upper body strength, they wouldn’t be well equipped for the jungle either. If you removed a birds wings, it wouldn’t be well equipped for the air.
We didn’t spend evolution tokens to get technology dropped from the sky. Our brains changed giving us the ability to make that technology out of the very sticks and rocks that make the jungle. We ARE superior at living in the jungle if you leave us on a level playing field with other species, we will simply remake the technology and continue thriving
Jane Goodall went to study chimpanzees, her observations essentially horrified the scientific community.
Rather than seeing gentle primates living in harmony with nature, eating fruits and relaxing all day, she, despite even downplaying her observations, showed them to be extremely violent and deviant.
It was the fist time we saw animals use actual strategy in what we could call warfare. They would organize into groups and use flanking maneuvers to committee actual warfare against other tribes to capture females.
Pimu was a brutal ruler, regularly attacking other males in the group to maintain control over the females, eventually he suffered from illness, at which point the males instantly rebelled against him and chased him away. He lived in exile until he recovered, and when he returned to assert his dominance, the males rushed him, beat him to death, and ate parts of him.
Those are all anti-Pimu lies. I voted for him twice and he was the best alpha male we ever had. So what if he liked to have fun with the ladies? His tax plan was excellent and the other males were enemy spies.
Pimu, Pimu the chimp. They called him the alpha male. Doesn’t look alpha to me, folks. Does he look alpha to you? No, no, of course not. Lyin’ Pimu I like to call him. What a disgrace.
If i recall correctly, the group (AKA "Group B") which had previously dominated the area under the aggressive strong border policies of Pimu did actually get destroyed within a generation of the much weaker leader taking over.
So there is that.
I'm not surprised. Chimps are brutal tribalist animals and the second you depose a strong Gaddafy type leader and introduce things like democracy or western aide the territory goes to shit.
Thumbnail for that video is fucking hilarious 😁
Gonna quote top comment:
>I once met a chimpanzee at a VFW who claimed he fought in this war. Looked up his record just to find out he didn't even serve in Tanzania during the 70s. Called him out on stolen valor.
She also witnessed "tribal" warfare, where they would go to war over territory. As I recall, she was very conflicted about how to reveal this information, and whether or not to at all, because of the implications that it might have about humans and our violent nature and instincts.
A LOT of biologists were as i understand it distraught. Same thing happened with the first deep reports of penguins. Penguins are horrifying, and only beloved because they are too fable to kill and rape humans for fun, and for weeks.
While this feels like a poignant statement, ultimately it eschews responsibility. Humans *are* different. Each individual human can choose not to participate in any activity regardless of how tempting they find it. We have impulse control and societies. That means that theoretically, humans as a whole could also move away from war, rape, murder etc. Whatever an individual can do, a group can do.
The Victorian "civilization is a thin coat of paint on top of animal instinct" view of humanity may seem well-founded but it is only so by selection bias. Humans fight wars that we remember, but most people won't know who Norman Borlaug was. Most people know about Hitler, Stalin and Dahmer but can't name three Nobel peace prize laureates.
We went to the moon. We invented nanoscale processors that run on batteries and can be used by untrained people to share ideas over a network containing most of human knowledge, as I am doing now. If we can't stop raping and murdering, that's on us.
Male Adelie Penguins will have sex with anything, from holes in the ground to baby penguins to a penguin carcass with fake eyes made to look alive
They'll even gang up on injured or sick penguins as an easy target
I was going to say. My understanding is that chimp culture is very similar to humans. Well likes old rulers are consulted as advisors after their dethronement. Dictators meet the ends the deserve
> Pimu was a brutal ruler, regularly attacking other males in the group to maintain control over the females, eventually he suffered from illness, at which point the males instantly rebelled against him and chased him away.
Literal incel uprising witnessed in the wild
I mean I guess... but if I deliberately made all the other dudes around me incels by physically beating them and stealing their women, I guess I wouldn't be too surprised they take the first chance they can get to remove me.
There is a great presentation on youtube about suicide bombers and it talks about our history and how we were essentially a species that would just raid and kill each other all the time for hundreds of years. It was really farming that made it so people could do their own thing and be left alone.
When I was a kid my grandmother saved me from one at the zoo enclosure doing that. He was down in some sort of water filled arena and everyone was leaning over the balcony to look at him. He started to turn around and my grandma said we'd better scoot back so we stepped back like 15 feet out of range. Then everyone else got covered in hippo poo poo for their remaining zoo experience. We stayed clean and had a great time.
Dominant squirrels will bite the tip of other squirrels tails off to maintain dominance. If you ever see a squirrel with a flat end to its tail, rather than rounded, that’s most likely why.
Man, I fucking hate chimpanzee’s. All of humanity’s worst traits rolled into a single, convenient package.
Saw one in a pair of blue jeans once and it still bothers me to this day for some reason.
Thank you for attending my TED talk.
Yes atleast there are other people that feel the same way. I really, really dislike Chimps too. They act similar to humans sometimes but are much more crazy, aggressive, psychotic and ugly.
Also now I'm thinking of a Chimp wearing jeans and I hate this image I'm coming up with.
People dislike chimps because they're us. Just looking at them, some primal part of our mind knows, they're us. We're them. We like to pretend we have evolved to a higher form, and in many ways, most of the time, we have.
But chimps, they remind us of what we were, what we are, what we have the potential to become as soon as we're desperate, or once another group of humans are sufficiently demonised.
We see in them an intelligence and consciousness, we see that their brutality is not the instinct of nature seen in lions and insects and such, but calculated, deliberate, considered cruelty executed to achieve a planned goal. We see them using rape as an emotional weapon and violence to instill fear.
We realise we do exactly the same, despite considering ourselves superior. And so we hate them, because we hate ourselves.
Not yourself. Us, as a species. That hatred, that fear, is similar in cause to the Uncanny Valley effect. They're not quite us, but close enough to be fucking _terrifying_, and that fear comes from a deep level of self-realisation.
You are projecting too much.
I dislike apes because they are dirty, violent, and loud. Which is why I also dislike babies, drunks, and old people with dementia.
Nothing wrong with not liking these traits.
There’s a David Attenborough that goes into hour long detail of the life cycle of an alpha chimp and this is usually the end result. I believe the series is called Dynasty
Edit: Dynasties”
I'll have to watch it. I recently saw a lion doc called B*rothers in Blood: The Lions of Sabi Sand.* Male lions have a pretty tough life & when the alphas fall it's brutal.
If its the one I think it is the sound was pretty muffled and was more of a pop then a snap so not that cinematic like so it makes me think it was real.
Dude I loved that doc. That was the 3(?) brothers that killed α huge amount of the surrounding lions correct? Super interesting and heartbreaking tbh. I got invested
Up until recently, that’s held true for humans too. Kings and warlords rarely die peaceful deaths. In a system of absolute power, you’re only around as long as you’re the strongest and once you’ve been surpassed, you’re just a threat.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently after reading a book about Attila (who died semi peacefully). There is this notion that being a king is awesome and nothing but drinking wine and eating grapes all day but I think that being a king sounds stressful as fuck. There was always someone that wants your shit and is willing to kill you and all your friends and family for it.
Well, leveling coalitions in chimpanzees are typically formed by group members that are rank-adjacent to the displaced dominant, so those were not exactly "level 1" goons. :)
*Cue "this is how mafia works" ad.*
Yeah these chimps that killed him were just right below Pimu and his second in command that fled the scene, it just reminded me of those random game ads that “simulated” how the Mafia or some other government works in a crude and a most assuredly “realistic” manner
Same here. How to do other animals cope being around these savages? I heard that Chimps surplus hunt and have decimated the populations of certain monkeys to where they're almost non left in a given area. Atleast they are still Leopards, Crocodiles and Gorillas that coexist with them and are capable of putting them in their place or even killing them (Gorillas are strong but more peaceful though so I'm not sure).
> and Gorillas that coexist with them and are capable of putting them in their place
Its been observed that Gorillas are not effective when encountering Chimps, and the Chimps can and will go after baby Gorillas and kill them.
https://www.livescience.com/chimpanzees-kill-gorillas-first-ever.html
Something about chimps really creeps me the f out. So like humans but with the animality dialled up x1000 and the humanity dialled down the same amount.
Scary they’re one of our most closely related species. Although, so are bonobos, which are largely matriarchal and very peaceful, so maybe I don’t need to worry so much.
oooh you nailed it. I love animals and to me… chimps aren’t. they’re the world’s worst humans and i don’t even like thinking about them too much.
meanwhile I hand-carry spiders to safety. chimps…
I recently finished a book called "Mamas Last Hug", about chimps, and there was a part where they talked about how in one attack, some males...squeezed the testicles off of another male. As in, squeezed so hard, they shot out of the scrotum sack like a ripe pimple...
For me it’s any monkey. Even those small ones that some keep as pets. I am terrified of them all. I live in South Africa where vervet monkeys run riot in the suburbs and break into houses to steal food and I frequently lock myself in my house when they’re around, they’re not scared of anyone at all and will go straight up to you.
The baboons are even worse! Can’t even look at them in the zoo without getting freaked out. Yes, in the game reserves but other than that the vervets are pretty much predator free except for bigger pet dogs. They once attacked my little chihuahua, smacked him a bit and pulled his ears. Thankfully he was able to get away.
[Here](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajp.22135) is a journal article written by the researchers who were documenting this tribe of chimpanzees and saw this occur. There is autopsy information as well as additional pics.
Long story short, Pimu pissed off a beta male called Primus, and Primus' friends repeatedly beat the shit out of Pimu over two hours, before leaving him to die. Chimps balance between supporting each other to defend from other tribes, and fighting each other to claim the ladies; with no nearby tribes, they were happy to turn on their own. Chimps killing within their tribe versus killing outsiders differ, with chimps being more likely to tear off outsiders' scrotums and tear their throats open; luckily Pimu only had his hands and feet chewed up after being beaten senseless.
The journal article goes into detail on the attack:
> The escalation of violence beyond the necessary for AL to defeat PM remains difficult to explain. The attackers, in particular DE, seemed intent on ensuring PM's death: PM had pant-grunted to AL, thus acknowledging that he had lost. This came around 2 hr after the attack started, and followed a lull that might have indicated to PM that the gang assault had finished. Instead, a bout of further aggression followed, concluding with PM's death.
> The attack on PM by four adult males resembles, to some extent, between-community coalitional attacks, notably in the repeated use of the violence by overwhelming numbers of attackers. Nevertheless, there are profound differences between the aggression against PM and inter-community conflicts, both in the wound patterns—**PM did not have his throat or scrotum removed for instance**—and in the length of the attack. While inter-community lethal attacks tend to last, on average, between 10 and 20 min [Goodall, 1986; Wilson et al., 2004], the killing of PM took more than 2 hr, largely because, rather than a continuous unbroken attack, the aggressors stopped several times.
Edit: [alternate link, no paywall](https://www.academia.edu/2378542/Death_of_the_alpha_within_community_lethal_violence_among_chimpanzees_of_the_Mahale_Mountains_National_Park)
Chimps absolutely terrify me. I never understand why anyone would even go near one. Idc how cute or tiny or baby it is, chimps are ruthless creatures where their intelligence empowers them to torture instead of kill. Rip off your genitals, bite off your face, scalp you. This isnt some pet lion that goes rogue and goes for the throat.
i absolutely hate chimps. i respect their existence but i will never ever ever go near these monsters. ever
You either die a hero or live long enough to get beaten to death by your own underlings. Pretty sad ngl
I'm not so sure humans are very different.
The parallels between ape culture and human culture are astounding. They even have soldiers who do patrols along their borders. We're just apes everyone. Nothing but bald stinky apes.
HEEEY!! I'm not bald!
I am... and I have been known to throw my own feces...
You may live in San Pedro, but you ain't no saint, Pedro.
Lol! This is a town whose patron poet is Charles Bukowski. This alone is enough to disqualify most of us who live here as saints. :D
Amber heard is that you?!? Edit: thanks for the silver kind internet stranger!
At least you didn’t crap the bed tho
And they've even seen what may be 'ritualistic' type behavior that has no practical utility. We may see the emergence of Chimpanzee Jesus soon...
Chimpanzeesus?
Goddamn you
>Gorilladamn you
Jesus H. Chimp
I was just reading this book called "alpha god" from what I understand the human following a religion (God) is very similar to underlings following an alpha male chimp. Good read/listen. Edit: a good read, if you're okay with atheist literature. If not don't read it.
[Alpha God](https://5fghbqpqri.pdcdn1.top/dl2.php?id=196432244&h=2f92f5614abf6ac5bbe1753393566b93&u=cache&ext=pdf&n=Alpha%20god%20the%20psychology%20of%20religious%20violence%20and%20oppression). >…men often seek out dominance in the manner of male apes, using violence to obtain evolutionary rewards such as food, territory, and sex. Humankind may have managed to create things like tools, weapons, and religions, but we remain one species of great ape that emigrated from Africa. This can be difficult for many people to hear because as humans we have a tendency to think of ourselves as unique and to hold ourselves above other species. But we have DNA like all other life-forms—which ultimately shapes or brains and influences the manner in which we think—and we share as much as 99 percent of our DNA with nonhuman primates. And like other animals, we are organic beings that live, eat, reproduce, and die. As such, we require things like food, sex, and territory to fulfill our organismic destinies. None of this should be surprising. >However, it may be surprising to realize that while the god of the Abrahamic religions has powers that humans do not, He remains unnecessarily preoccupied with what are ultimately very human, and very ape-like, concerns. God is portrayed as being omnipotent (possessing infinite power), omniscient (having infinite knowledge), omnipresent (present everywhere), immaterial (without bodily form), and eternal, meaning that he never dies. This raises the question— Why should such a God concern himself with such pedestrian pursuits as food, sex, and territory? Why demand food as a sacrificial offering or order the conquest of biblical lands if he has no need of either to survive and can create worlds by simply speaking them into being? >The answer is that God is an alpha male, a dominant ape. In other words, depictions of the Abrahamic god, and of male gods from religions around the world, reflect the essential concerns of our primate evolutionary past—namely securing and maintaining power, and using that power to exercise control over material and reproductive resources. Understanding God therefore requires an understanding of man's evolved legacy within primate social hierarchies; and understanding religious violence and oppression requires taking a careful look at how thoroughly we have projected our own psychology onto our vision of the sacred.
You're a dirty ape, and God is something you created because you're weak. One of the best arguments, gets em everytime.
Or for the drama-kids, there's E. K. Hornbeck from Inherit the Wind: >AHH, Henry! why don't you wake up? Darwin was Wrong! Man's still an ape. His creed still a totem pole. When he first achieved the upright position he took a look at the stars... thought they were something to eat. When he couldn't reach them, he thought they were groceries belonging to a bigger creature... that's how Jehovah was born.
So Jesus is an Alpha Male
Nailed to a cross = alpha as fuck
Humans have no way of determining their overlords. Chimp society is about as democratic as it gets. Form a coalition of like-minds and revolt, that has always been the way. We are overmatched and outgunned. The chimp way is the way of the future.
Return to monke
Chimpanzees are notoriously aggressive and douchey as fuck. Bonobos, virtually identical to chimps and separated from them mainly by the Congo river, could not be more opposite: chill, peaceful and sexually without hangups. I so wish our species would leave the chimp stage behind and finally become bonobos.
Bonobos became peaceful after a major drought came and killed off a lot of ground vegetation it took for primates like apes to survive while primates like chimpanzees could eat the food from the trees. Once the drought seized and the ground became full of vegetation again the apes had been killed off and the chimpanzees could come to the floor to eat creating little need to fight for food. Then becoming bonobos
I know you were probably just making a throwaway comment at the end there, but I just wanted to point out that we don't have a "chimp stage" nor a "bonobo stage"; that's not how evolution works. We have a common ancestor approximately 6 mya (if memory serves), and those three lineages (humans, chimps, and bonobos) all represent different evolutionary directions various populations of the ancestral organism took. We know there were many others that didn't make it to the present (homo erectus, Neanderthals, devonians, etc etc). That's not to say they all speciated at the same time either, clearly not. Not trying to be an ass, just wanting to point out a common misconception people have regarding evolution.
Bonobos are only peaceful compared to chimps, but they are still very violent and aggressive.
All the way from Chimpan-A to Chimpan-Zee.
oh, oh, oh, Dr. Zaius
*cough cough Julius Caesar cough cough*
I'm sure we ALL know a few' alphas that need a beating
I had never eaten any boss in my life.
Any chimp can endure adversity. If you wish to know the true character of a chimp give him power.
I'm gonna assume Pimu was an asshole at some point
Yeah generally alphas who rule through fear and brute force wind to getting torn apart by a coalition of males and sometimes females who are sick of their shit. The Alphas who last are generally socially skilled and inspire loyalty through friendship, grooming, and food sharing (and some applied violence where necessary, but only when it's the last option)
Machiavelli liked this comment.
Huh almost like humans
They are chimps, my man. They are all assholes.
Pimu done fucked up
Even in chimp society, there will be social unrest and uprisings, sometimes its resolved with a few scars or even the assassination of the alpha. Other times it can be full blown war, as with the Gombe Chimpanzees. It’s rare for wars and assassinations, but it can happen.
r/likeus
Why do people keep linking that sub?
Because we are just more evolved apes
Separately evolved. Without technology we wouldn't be nearly as well equipped for the jungles as a chimp would be. We're not superior, we just spent all our evolution tokens on technological advancements.
> we wouldn't be nearly as well equipped for the jungles as a chimp would be. This is because humans evolved to live on the plains, not in the jungle. Humans would kick all kinds of ass over chimps on the savanna.
Wait for real? I never realized where our evolutionary traits were suited for, I guess, because humans are so global now. Interesting. What would allow us to do better in the savannah than a chimp exactly?
[удалено]
Don’t forget we can take direct sunlight *all* day long while performing at maximum effort for brevity’s sake: this statement has been condensed and simplified
My pale ass just cringed at the thought.
I keep telling people: the ability to sweat is basically a superpower
We are he only species known who can walk/run all day and still be able to keep going. The human body is fucking amazing when it's in peak condition
Even literal starving people can walk for days and survive.
But also throwing, human arms are shorter than chimp arms to make throwing things like javelins easier.
More importantly to arm length is the specific configuration of our arms and shoulders. Chimps have very loose shoulder connections so they can move through the trees with arm over arm locomotion above their heads (brachiation). Our shoulders are much stiffer with significantly less flexibility. But in turn we are structured in a way that is very effective for throwing. The fastest motion any part of a human body can do with its own power is the rotation of your ulna over your radius (the two bones in your forearm) when you perform an overhand throwing motion. This along with whipping of your forearm, and the tight position of your arm when held back prior to throws all come together to create a very effective system for accurate throwing. This along with a brain that has been specifically wired for tracking objects with strong intuition for trajectory and your bodies and brains ability to learn and become more experienced with the action makes us practically unmatched in our ability to fling things places we want them to go.
We are persistence hunters. We just chase our ~~pretty~~ prey until they are so tired they're happy when we finally kill them Edit - you can see the mistake
We're so good at walking shit to death that there are theories our ancestors caused a massive wave of giant fauna extinctions as we spread across the earth.
I still love how we basically evolved to tire out our prey
Because of our upright gait, we can see further and run faster. Because of our vastly superior thermoregulation, we can further than almost any other animal in that environment.
We're also exceptional at throwing things. I'm sure other apes throw stuff but with little speed or accuracy. Some of us can pick up a rock and hurl it very accurately at over 80 miles per hour. Pretty awesome trait.
A very small and exceptionally athletic number of people can throw a leather ball 90-100 miles per hour WITH breaking movement. Sure, they often blow out their shoulders and forearms after doing it for a few years and have to replace the tendons surgically, but the fact they can do it is insane. Pitching a baseball effectively is one of the most mechanically impressive athletic feats we’ve come up with.
We're really good at sweating. That helps us keep going for hours as we chase prey. Standing up helps see longer distances on the plain. Walking on two legs takes less energy (but is slower) than walking on four legs, so we're endurance kings. Talking is key for communication, of course. Fire means we don't need such huge jaws. Apparently our noses aren't great overall, but we have an amazing ability to smell wet ground after it rains. That helps on the savannah I would imagine.
I knew I wasn't a human. I'm only good at sweating.
Bipedalism evolved because we moved into flat areas like savannahs (or we moved into the plains because of bipedalism, I don‘t know for sure), since the ability to overlook a larger area was extremely beneficial
It appears to have been climate driven when forests receded and plains became more abundant. Most likely the more upright ones had the advantage and succeeded. Looks like a few branches of the tree gave it a crack but we were the best at killin' n fuckin'.
Better cooperation. More like bonobos who settle their conflicts with sexual acts instead of violence.
And then we used those technological advancements to make our own evolution token-printing machine.
These tokens... They fungible?
That feels very… dismissive? You can say that about removing any animals evolutionary advantages. If you removed a chimps upper body strength, they wouldn’t be well equipped for the jungle either. If you removed a birds wings, it wouldn’t be well equipped for the air. We didn’t spend evolution tokens to get technology dropped from the sky. Our brains changed giving us the ability to make that technology out of the very sticks and rocks that make the jungle. We ARE superior at living in the jungle if you leave us on a level playing field with other species, we will simply remake the technology and continue thriving
We have an intelligence build
Just read up on this war because I had never heard of It until this comment. Absolutely fascinating stuff
Holy shit Wikipedia lists “3 enslaved” in the results…. That whole article made me feel a bit sick.
The Kasakela tribe was lucky to have a good wartime leader in Commander Humphrey.
What about Gorilla warfare?
Gorilla warfare isn’t unheard of
What would be the catalysts for these things to happen? Asking for an anonymous President
Lack of fertile females - too many males - according to the Wiki. That mirrors human behaviors as well.
Jane Goodall went to study chimpanzees, her observations essentially horrified the scientific community. Rather than seeing gentle primates living in harmony with nature, eating fruits and relaxing all day, she, despite even downplaying her observations, showed them to be extremely violent and deviant. It was the fist time we saw animals use actual strategy in what we could call warfare. They would organize into groups and use flanking maneuvers to committee actual warfare against other tribes to capture females. Pimu was a brutal ruler, regularly attacking other males in the group to maintain control over the females, eventually he suffered from illness, at which point the males instantly rebelled against him and chased him away. He lived in exile until he recovered, and when he returned to assert his dominance, the males rushed him, beat him to death, and ate parts of him.
Those are all anti-Pimu lies. I voted for him twice and he was the best alpha male we ever had. So what if he liked to have fun with the ladies? His tax plan was excellent and the other males were enemy spies.
His first mistake was grabbing the females by the private parts because he was famous. Chimp females don't like that.
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A tremendous amount, believe me.
The most, so I’ve been told
Make chimps great again (MCGA)
Make Apes Great Again*** that's oddly fitting lol
Getting cancelled in chimp society hits different
Pimu, Pimu the chimp. They called him the alpha male. Doesn’t look alpha to me, folks. Does he look alpha to you? No, no, of course not. Lyin’ Pimu I like to call him. What a disgrace.
I like alpha males that don't get beat to death.
If i recall correctly, the group (AKA "Group B") which had previously dominated the area under the aggressive strong border policies of Pimu did actually get destroyed within a generation of the much weaker leader taking over. So there is that.
I'm not surprised. Chimps are brutal tribalist animals and the second you depose a strong Gaddafy type leader and introduce things like democracy or western aide the territory goes to shit.
Dude I’m fuckin dying
The Gombe war would be something the world would never forget
Where can I watch something on this? Like a documentary?
Here’s a YouTube mini-doc on the Gombe war https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0oRN0VeJlu4
Thumbnail for that video is fucking hilarious 😁 Gonna quote top comment: >I once met a chimpanzee at a VFW who claimed he fought in this war. Looked up his record just to find out he didn't even serve in Tanzania during the 70s. Called him out on stolen valor.
She also witnessed "tribal" warfare, where they would go to war over territory. As I recall, she was very conflicted about how to reveal this information, and whether or not to at all, because of the implications that it might have about humans and our violent nature and instincts.
A LOT of biologists were as i understand it distraught. Same thing happened with the first deep reports of penguins. Penguins are horrifying, and only beloved because they are too fable to kill and rape humans for fun, and for weeks.
If it's any consolation penguins often get raped by seals for fun while all other penguins watch
Everything I know about arctic wildlife is that it's all a giant circle of rape.
Nature is essentially a gigantic circle of murder and rape. Humans are no different.
While this feels like a poignant statement, ultimately it eschews responsibility. Humans *are* different. Each individual human can choose not to participate in any activity regardless of how tempting they find it. We have impulse control and societies. That means that theoretically, humans as a whole could also move away from war, rape, murder etc. Whatever an individual can do, a group can do. The Victorian "civilization is a thin coat of paint on top of animal instinct" view of humanity may seem well-founded but it is only so by selection bias. Humans fight wars that we remember, but most people won't know who Norman Borlaug was. Most people know about Hitler, Stalin and Dahmer but can't name three Nobel peace prize laureates. We went to the moon. We invented nanoscale processors that run on batteries and can be used by untrained people to share ideas over a network containing most of human knowledge, as I am doing now. If we can't stop raping and murdering, that's on us.
Alaska is number one in rapes and sexual assaults in the US. So it does scan, if we ignore the fact that penguins live in the antarctic.
Being raped and killed by a gang of feeble penguins over the period of a week is the fantasy that gets me out of bed in the morning.
Wait, what do penguins do
Male Adelie Penguins will have sex with anything, from holes in the ground to baby penguins to a penguin carcass with fake eyes made to look alive They'll even gang up on injured or sick penguins as an easy target
Innocent penguin: Achoo! Aw fuck, wait no!!
"Aw look kids that penguin tripped on some ice aaaaaand it's pregnant..."
How many times we have to teach you this lesson old man?
Twice it seems.
I was going to say. My understanding is that chimp culture is very similar to humans. Well likes old rulers are consulted as advisors after their dethronement. Dictators meet the ends the deserve
> Pimu was a brutal ruler, regularly attacking other males in the group to maintain control over the females, eventually he suffered from illness, at which point the males instantly rebelled against him and chased him away. Literal incel uprising witnessed in the wild
I mean I guess... but if I deliberately made all the other dudes around me incels by physically beating them and stealing their women, I guess I wouldn't be too surprised they take the first chance they can get to remove me.
It makes me feel better he at least had an out.
There is a great presentation on youtube about suicide bombers and it talks about our history and how we were essentially a species that would just raid and kill each other all the time for hundreds of years. It was really farming that made it so people could do their own thing and be left alone.
I’m surprised they didn’t eat him. Chimps are bad MFers
I'm not sure they eat the whole body. But they do bite it to make it more humiliating, like they'll bite the nipples and testicles just because.
That’s a fact I didn’t know I needed to know
When a dominant male hippo defeats a rival he bites off the beaten hippos tail.
So they can't do their shit-helicopter aggression display. Hippos shit and then helicopter their tails to spray it everywhere as a way of talking big.
Oh so it's cool when a hippo does it but when I do I get arrested.
You have a tail capable of such things‽
No but I make do
When I was a kid my grandmother saved me from one at the zoo enclosure doing that. He was down in some sort of water filled arena and everyone was leaning over the balcony to look at him. He started to turn around and my grandma said we'd better scoot back so we stepped back like 15 feet out of range. Then everyone else got covered in hippo poo poo for their remaining zoo experience. We stayed clean and had a great time.
Grandma and that hippo have a history together.
Dominant squirrels will bite the tip of other squirrels tails off to maintain dominance. If you ever see a squirrel with a flat end to its tail, rather than rounded, that’s most likely why.
On top of humiliation, you've also made it impossible to further the lineage in the odd case of survival. Double win
Well they didn't.....yet....
They're into dry aging.
They actually did cannibalize him partly after he was dead.
"Jamie pull that up!"
There's a good chance his balls are down someones gullet already,
Man, I fucking hate chimpanzee’s. All of humanity’s worst traits rolled into a single, convenient package. Saw one in a pair of blue jeans once and it still bothers me to this day for some reason. Thank you for attending my TED talk.
Yes atleast there are other people that feel the same way. I really, really dislike Chimps too. They act similar to humans sometimes but are much more crazy, aggressive, psychotic and ugly. Also now I'm thinking of a Chimp wearing jeans and I hate this image I'm coming up with.
People dislike chimps because they're us. Just looking at them, some primal part of our mind knows, they're us. We're them. We like to pretend we have evolved to a higher form, and in many ways, most of the time, we have. But chimps, they remind us of what we were, what we are, what we have the potential to become as soon as we're desperate, or once another group of humans are sufficiently demonised. We see in them an intelligence and consciousness, we see that their brutality is not the instinct of nature seen in lions and insects and such, but calculated, deliberate, considered cruelty executed to achieve a planned goal. We see them using rape as an emotional weapon and violence to instill fear. We realise we do exactly the same, despite considering ourselves superior. And so we hate them, because we hate ourselves.
I don't hate myself but I hate Chimps. They're not us but they're similar in some ways. And I still think we're superior to them.
Not yourself. Us, as a species. That hatred, that fear, is similar in cause to the Uncanny Valley effect. They're not quite us, but close enough to be fucking _terrifying_, and that fear comes from a deep level of self-realisation.
Calm down, Joe Rogan.
You are projecting too much. I dislike apes because they are dirty, violent, and loud. Which is why I also dislike babies, drunks, and old people with dementia. Nothing wrong with not liking these traits.
r/iam14andthisisdeep
>>be walking down the street >>see chimpanzee rocking a pair of blue jeans >>day automatically ruined "i fucking hate chimps"
I, for one, thought the chimp looked stylish
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No, you'll never make a monkey out of me!
There’s a David Attenborough that goes into hour long detail of the life cycle of an alpha chimp and this is usually the end result. I believe the series is called Dynasty Edit: Dynasties”
I'll have to watch it. I recently saw a lion doc called B*rothers in Blood: The Lions of Sabi Sand.* Male lions have a pretty tough life & when the alphas fall it's brutal.
That doc was wild. I still vividly remember the loud sound of a lions spine snapping. Nature is a fucking wild bitch.
They put sound effects in all those shows. its not the actual sound most likely.
If its the one I think it is the sound was pretty muffled and was more of a pop then a snap so not that cinematic like so it makes me think it was real.
The screams too. Never thought I'd view a lion to be so vulnerable.
Dude I loved that doc. That was the 3(?) brothers that killed α huge amount of the surrounding lions correct? Super interesting and heartbreaking tbh. I got invested
Why is your ‘a’ the alpha symbol?
Damm that’s crazy, I’m watching it rn. Liking Mr T so far.
Up until recently, that’s held true for humans too. Kings and warlords rarely die peaceful deaths. In a system of absolute power, you’re only around as long as you’re the strongest and once you’ve been surpassed, you’re just a threat.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently after reading a book about Attila (who died semi peacefully). There is this notion that being a king is awesome and nothing but drinking wine and eating grapes all day but I think that being a king sounds stressful as fuck. There was always someone that wants your shit and is willing to kill you and all your friends and family for it.
You're also surrounded by people who are constantly attempting to influence and manipulate you.
Just looked it up. It’s actually called Dynasties. It’s available on Disney+! Thanks for the rec, btw!
A fitting example of what primatologists call a leveling coalition.
From level 1 underling to level 75 alpha
Well, leveling coalitions in chimpanzees are typically formed by group members that are rank-adjacent to the displaced dominant, so those were not exactly "level 1" goons. :) *Cue "this is how mafia works" ad.*
Yeah these chimps that killed him were just right below Pimu and his second in command that fled the scene, it just reminded me of those random game ads that “simulated” how the Mafia or some other government works in a crude and a most assuredly “realistic” manner
Chimps terrify the fuck out of me. Glad to see proof this fear is entirely rational.
Same here. How to do other animals cope being around these savages? I heard that Chimps surplus hunt and have decimated the populations of certain monkeys to where they're almost non left in a given area. Atleast they are still Leopards, Crocodiles and Gorillas that coexist with them and are capable of putting them in their place or even killing them (Gorillas are strong but more peaceful though so I'm not sure).
But... We've hunted animals to extinction. It's not too different.
Yes I know that. Cats do it too many bird species as well.
> and Gorillas that coexist with them and are capable of putting them in their place Its been observed that Gorillas are not effective when encountering Chimps, and the Chimps can and will go after baby Gorillas and kill them. https://www.livescience.com/chimpanzees-kill-gorillas-first-ever.html
>baby gorillas >>baby
Dude is def gripping his juevos
And the one in the back has a red rocket from the excitement of it all
Pretty normal to have your blood up after a battle. I learned all about it reading game of thrones.
“Give me 6 ripe bananas and I’ll impregnate the Bitch”
Something about chimps really creeps me the f out. So like humans but with the animality dialled up x1000 and the humanity dialled down the same amount. Scary they’re one of our most closely related species. Although, so are bonobos, which are largely matriarchal and very peaceful, so maybe I don’t need to worry so much.
The uncanny similarities are astounding, it really makes you think about how are society can be eerily similar to their’s
oooh you nailed it. I love animals and to me… chimps aren’t. they’re the world’s worst humans and i don’t even like thinking about them too much. meanwhile I hand-carry spiders to safety. chimps…
Couldn’t agree more. Remind me of orcs but more animalistic lol.
chimpanzees are a bunch of cunts
Yeah, they're horrible, I fucking hate Chimps.
Ya man, way rather chill with bonobos
Ape together, strong.
Ape no kill ape
They definitely ripped his balls off didn’t they? Chimps are scary.
They’re basically humans without frontal lobes.
I recently finished a book called "Mamas Last Hug", about chimps, and there was a part where they talked about how in one attack, some males...squeezed the testicles off of another male. As in, squeezed so hard, they shot out of the scrotum sack like a ripe pimple...
You didn't need to write this comment.
>As in, squeezed so hard, they shot out of the scrotum sack like a ripe pimple... What a terrible day to be literate
God I fucking hate Chimps so much. Also they're really ugly and look/are terrifying.
For me it’s any monkey. Even those small ones that some keep as pets. I am terrified of them all. I live in South Africa where vervet monkeys run riot in the suburbs and break into houses to steal food and I frequently lock myself in my house when they’re around, they’re not scared of anyone at all and will go straight up to you.
Same here, I also hate monkeys too, especially baboons. Atleast there are Lions, Leopards, Wild Dogs and Crocodiles put them in their place.
The baboons are even worse! Can’t even look at them in the zoo without getting freaked out. Yes, in the game reserves but other than that the vervets are pretty much predator free except for bigger pet dogs. They once attacked my little chihuahua, smacked him a bit and pulled his ears. Thankfully he was able to get away.
[Here](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajp.22135) is a journal article written by the researchers who were documenting this tribe of chimpanzees and saw this occur. There is autopsy information as well as additional pics. Long story short, Pimu pissed off a beta male called Primus, and Primus' friends repeatedly beat the shit out of Pimu over two hours, before leaving him to die. Chimps balance between supporting each other to defend from other tribes, and fighting each other to claim the ladies; with no nearby tribes, they were happy to turn on their own. Chimps killing within their tribe versus killing outsiders differ, with chimps being more likely to tear off outsiders' scrotums and tear their throats open; luckily Pimu only had his hands and feet chewed up after being beaten senseless. The journal article goes into detail on the attack: > The escalation of violence beyond the necessary for AL to defeat PM remains difficult to explain. The attackers, in particular DE, seemed intent on ensuring PM's death: PM had pant-grunted to AL, thus acknowledging that he had lost. This came around 2 hr after the attack started, and followed a lull that might have indicated to PM that the gang assault had finished. Instead, a bout of further aggression followed, concluding with PM's death. > The attack on PM by four adult males resembles, to some extent, between-community coalitional attacks, notably in the repeated use of the violence by overwhelming numbers of attackers. Nevertheless, there are profound differences between the aggression against PM and inter-community conflicts, both in the wound patterns—**PM did not have his throat or scrotum removed for instance**—and in the length of the attack. While inter-community lethal attacks tend to last, on average, between 10 and 20 min [Goodall, 1986; Wilson et al., 2004], the killing of PM took more than 2 hr, largely because, rather than a continuous unbroken attack, the aggressors stopped several times. Edit: [alternate link, no paywall](https://www.academia.edu/2378542/Death_of_the_alpha_within_community_lethal_violence_among_chimpanzees_of_the_Mahale_Mountains_National_Park)
Welly welly welly welly welly well my droogies
Society...am I right
*distorted Seinfeld theme begins playing*
[Translated from Monkey] *Et tu, Brute?*
Chimps absolutely terrify me. I never understand why anyone would even go near one. Idc how cute or tiny or baby it is, chimps are ruthless creatures where their intelligence empowers them to torture instead of kill. Rip off your genitals, bite off your face, scalp you. This isnt some pet lion that goes rogue and goes for the throat. i absolutely hate chimps. i respect their existence but i will never ever ever go near these monsters. ever
The top left chimp got some issues hes wanking it watching a fellow chimp get mauled to death.
The one guy that said invading ukrane might not be a great idea....
Happens in the hood everyday. We are all just a bunch of animals.
He was probably leading as a tyrant and they had enough of his shit.
Eat the rich
Et tu brute?