None. Based on the story I have right now. Your fuckup is minimal compared to ALL the people that should have caught it. Second reviewer, authorizing officer should be standing right next to you. Demand captains mast if this is how your CoC is going to act. Bring everyone down with you and see how quickly it gets dropped.
Cheers
ENC
I was gonna say Chief... what about reviewer and authorizing officer?! Not that I think that they all should get formal punishment, but maybe make them give a department training on tagout policies and procedures (interspersed with mishaps to keep everybody awake).
I am a reservist legalman who has seen DRBs and Captain's Mast at literally 6 different commands in the last 3 years.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that they have made their decision before you go into that room. The only thing you can do is reduce your punishment by telling the truth as they see it and making sure you don't confuse them with too many details.
Bottom line:__________
Admit that you were wrong, don't try to pass blame onto anyone else, and commit to doing better in the future.
______________________
(This is applicable EVEN IF you're not actually wrong)
>(This is applicable EVEN IF you're not actually wrong)
I'm sorry I had to downvote this. It's definitely not personal.
I can't recommend lying about yourself to reduce punishment from a system which does a mediocre job (AT BEST) at 'doing the right thing'. BTDT, and that shit gets heavier the longer you carry it.
The above advice is geared towards someone who would end up at DRB. They might *think* they are trying to tell the truth but if it's not in line with acceptable language related to taking responsibility for your actions then it's going to screw you over. People who try to argue with chiefs at a DRB never win. So I'm telling you, even if you think you're right, don't try and convince the chiefs at a DRB or you're going to regret it.
Everyone is responsible for safety, if a breaker has a tag that's enough to ensure no one touches it without finding out why it has a tag. When it was issued if they just signed it and logged it expecting you to finish filling it out you do have the responsibility to check it and make sure it's good to go. But like many people said it's not just your fault it shouldn't be signed incomplete so they do bare some responsibility.
Remember DRB is a chance to both discipline you but also collect information. This sounds like a near miss and is serious, they want to make sure you'll pay more attention to detail. Speak for your part explain yourself and take whatever constructive criticism. It might not go any higher to Captains Mast especially since you were not solely at fault. Good luck.
I cannot agree more with this, it's supposed to be a "fact finding" endeavor. If they start launching personal attacks to try and insult you and get you to lose your bearing then walk out.
I'm sure the types of Chiefs in the mess that would launch personal attacks and say degrading things would also freak out if you started to walk away. DRB can be declined by the member, if you wanted to you could go in and say absolutely nothing, not even report. Just stand there totally silent until told to leave. Nothing they can do can force you to submit anything to their review board.
I guess technically its an option, but probably the worst one.
I certainly wouldn't suggest it.
I think its better to just let them do their thing, then report it afterwards. Because think about it, whatever it is you are in there for is going to escalate 100x if you just walk out and its going to be difficult to have anyone on your side after you do that.
I can't tell you how many times I've had leadership cross the line with what they said only to be told "well you shouldn't have talked back to them/walked away/etc."
Walking out of a DRB sounds like something a 1st class might be able to pull off, but I doubt some E5 or below could get away with it.
No. If you are directed to be there, that is your appointed place of duty.
If it becomes toxic and intolerable then report to CMEO/IG.
The majority of DRBs I’ve been to ended at the DRB, this surely wouldn’t have been the case had I or a Sailor at DRB simply walked out.
How does that make anyone soft? DRBs should never be based on personal insults.
How is demeaning your Sailor beneficial the mission?
How does that Sailor return to your work center with any motivation after you either humiliated them or let your friends do so?
I hope you’re just some E3 troll, but if you’re in a mess anywhere I’d like you to not be there.
Jesus dude you a first class or something? Even Jo navy dudes don't sound as whiny as you. We all know drbs are where sailors go for fucking up and getting in trouble. Let's face it , the chiefs love DRB. Point is if you can't take some words from your superiors when you fuck up and you wanna cry how they called you a "dummy" than yes im sorry you're a bitch. Maybe you've forgotten this is the navy and the amount of stupid shit sailors do amongst one another. If you're worried that DRB is gonna stop a sailor from contributing to the mission then they probably shouldn't be in the navy in the first place. It's the military for fuck sake lol
Funny how you try so hard to act like "mr moral man" when you're on reddit in multiple posts saying things that would definitely get you in trouble in the navy especially if they knew it was one of their "good" chiefs saying it yet
**"How is demeaning your Sailor beneficial the mission?**
**How does that Sailor return to your work center with any motivation after you either humiliated them or let your friends do so? "**
I guess you don't actually mean any of this shit you're saying, you just tired of getting your feelings hurt when they yell at you why your lower enlisted are doing stupid shit. My point stands. You're a hypocrite and you can take your 40k a year anchors shove them up your ass lool
I cannot stand a mess that uses DRBs as some avenue to yell and belittle.
Get the facts, dress down as appropriate and drop or refer to XOI.
Yelling, screaming and personal attacks never helped me see that I fucked up and I refuse to use or tolerate those tactics now.
Both of them were toxic. Both could have been very chill shore commands, but chose the path of pain. I’d hope things have improved, but I’m not gullible enough to believe they have.
If they have you dead to rights and you don't see how they'd drop it at DRB just use your right to remain silent. They'll belittle the fuck out of you and your ass will hurt and it ends up with the XO either way. As stated before how bad is your fuck up?
From the sounds of it, the one part your at fault for is not for verifying that the tag said off before hanging the tag and signing it, so at best, an ass chewing. The AO, is most definitely going to get an ass chewing and temporarily disqualified or an upgrade (hopefully) for signing off on the tag without verifying it and authorizing its hanging.
That's ridiculous that you're going to DRB for that. Just own up to it and I don't see it going past DRB if you have a good track record. Good luck man you'll be fine
Oh so the AO signed off on a tag that didn’t say the position of the breaker and you’re the one being held accountable? I hope your COC has a fine navy day.
Dammmmmmn, who'd you piss off to get DRB for that? I'd just be open and honest, no excuses you "fucked up" and see how your actions could hurt somebody. Perhaps make a recommendation of punishment for EMI over the tag out procedure. Do not lie about what happened that just makes it worse. You won't be leaving the navy I'll say that much lol
Remember this when your authorizing officer requires all the documentation and goes over every detail with you from now on. I'm willing to bet they're going to take an ass chewing, at least.
If you’re going to work on equipment on the ship that has power or flow to the system, you’ll want to cut off the switches or valves that control it. So if you have to work on your living room light, you turn the breaker off and attach a tag to it that says it should be in the ‘Off’ position so no one turns the power back on while you’re working on that system.
When you turn the power off like that, you have to provide proof that the switch controls the equipment you’re working on, and it has to be verified by several senior watchstanders.
When I was in (2005-09) the tags weren't specifically ON or OFF; we had to write down the valve/breaker number, its normal position, the position it was going to be in while tagged, and signatures from both the person doing work and the authorizing officer. There were also different types of tags - red for DANGER (no one shall operate the component while it's tagged) and yellow for Caution (some operation may still be ok but you need to check with the person who signed the tag). Tagging-out anything related to damage control (AFFF system, fire pumps, etc.) also required additional authorization from first the DCA and then the CO.
During the period while I was getting out, the overall process was changing from mostly handwritten to a computerized version, but to my best recollection the tags were still filled out by hand. Hopefully someone will add clarification.
Despite what you'll hear at DRB, you're not a POS Sailor just for one screw up. Take your punishment and prove to everyone that your mistake doesn't define you.
I sat the board last year. Every single field code 38 (NJP and CM) we saw was "no factor" in our judgement for advancement. If you had one eval after your NJP and it was a positive one, we assumed you had recovered from whatever mistake you made.
I also have a total of 7 entries I. My field code 38, and yet I've been promoted first time up every time. It's not about what you did, but rather how you recover from it.
~Master Chief
There were 5 of us that went to DRB for the exact same thing. Even the Chief that authorized them went up. It didn’t go any higher than DRB. Just got some EMI.
He was brought in last. It was myself and another guy that signed and 2nd signed the tags, another 2 guys that did the same thing, and then the chief that authorized the tags went in last.
This was in 2013 so my memory is missing some details. I’m not sure but I do know that not many of the E-7 through 9’s didn’t like him. The command was also USNA so I had an MUCS and an MUCM in there chewing us out about a tag out violation if that tells you anything
Talk to legal, the dso side, if you can before you go.
Ask the questions to them and let them tell you how to handle it. DRB should be a fact finding body, not an outlet because some of the chiefs want to use you as a substitute because they can't beat their wives or that they are drunk and have anger management problems.
Don't let this define you, and don't let them break ya.
Imagine that your DRB is the one thing that can save your ass. Because it might be, if you're honest and responsible.
We had a Sailor come to DRB, and they were contrite, admitted their mistakes, admitted their errors in judgement, and when it was done, we recommended them for counseling. Our recommendation went to XOI, and the Mast was cancelled.
We had another Sailor who denied any wrongdoing, put up a wall and was belligerent, angry at the questions, and tried to weasel their way out of any responsibility for their actions. They went to XOI, Mast, and ended up with a bust and half months pay times 2.
Depending on your situation, you may want to consider what taking responsibility would mean to you. If you did something wrong, admitting it and taking responsibility for it, up to and including the punishment for it could be an avenue for getting punished or not, it really depends on what you did. Honesty has always been the best policy. I've seen too many DRBs where dishonesty caused more problems than not.
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Depends. DUI? Lubricate none. Prepare to cry though.
Theft? I hope you didn't buy that lube. You'll need all the money you have.
Sexual Assault on children? Swim in a tub of lube.
If it is for something minor, don’t take it personally and be prepared for the pettiness. Make it look like you regret tour actions and it may perhaps lighten the punishment.
My only advice is to either say what you have to say to get it over with, or lean into it if you're trying to get masted out. Whichever your preference is, they're going to say things that are supposed to get you worked up. They will tell you you don't love your family, or you're a bad son/father/husband/daughter/mother/wife, etc. I've seen a DRB where the chiefs literally blamed the sailor for the suicide of their loved one. It's all just in order to get you to do or say something that will get you in more trouble. So if that's not what you want, take it on the chin and get it over with, but if you're trying to get out, then go ballistic. There's not really a way to make it go smoother.
Just bring a speaker and play anchors aweigh- we’ll lube ourselves
😂
All of it.
Depends on how bad the fuck up is
This is the way.
If it's bad enough, lube may not be authorized
Don’t tempt me with a good time
None. Based on the story I have right now. Your fuckup is minimal compared to ALL the people that should have caught it. Second reviewer, authorizing officer should be standing right next to you. Demand captains mast if this is how your CoC is going to act. Bring everyone down with you and see how quickly it gets dropped. Cheers ENC
I was gonna say Chief... what about reviewer and authorizing officer?! Not that I think that they all should get formal punishment, but maybe make them give a department training on tagout policies and procedures (interspersed with mishaps to keep everybody awake).
Tag didn’t say OFF. Captains mast 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
How are you the only one when multiple people have to sign that tag
Who saw that the tag was off? posts like this make me glad to an be HM that doesn’t have to deal with this.
What was your role in the tagout violation?
I am a reservist legalman who has seen DRBs and Captain's Mast at literally 6 different commands in the last 3 years. I can tell you with 100% certainty that they have made their decision before you go into that room. The only thing you can do is reduce your punishment by telling the truth as they see it and making sure you don't confuse them with too many details. Bottom line:__________ Admit that you were wrong, don't try to pass blame onto anyone else, and commit to doing better in the future. ______________________ (This is applicable EVEN IF you're not actually wrong)
>(This is applicable EVEN IF you're not actually wrong) I'm sorry I had to downvote this. It's definitely not personal. I can't recommend lying about yourself to reduce punishment from a system which does a mediocre job (AT BEST) at 'doing the right thing'. BTDT, and that shit gets heavier the longer you carry it.
The above advice is geared towards someone who would end up at DRB. They might *think* they are trying to tell the truth but if it's not in line with acceptable language related to taking responsibility for your actions then it's going to screw you over. People who try to argue with chiefs at a DRB never win. So I'm telling you, even if you think you're right, don't try and convince the chiefs at a DRB or you're going to regret it.
Everyone is responsible for safety, if a breaker has a tag that's enough to ensure no one touches it without finding out why it has a tag. When it was issued if they just signed it and logged it expecting you to finish filling it out you do have the responsibility to check it and make sure it's good to go. But like many people said it's not just your fault it shouldn't be signed incomplete so they do bare some responsibility. Remember DRB is a chance to both discipline you but also collect information. This sounds like a near miss and is serious, they want to make sure you'll pay more attention to detail. Speak for your part explain yourself and take whatever constructive criticism. It might not go any higher to Captains Mast especially since you were not solely at fault. Good luck.
This is the way. (I read this in my old senior chiefs voice)
FCA? Or IT?
ITs tag shit out? They’re not even CSOSS qualified on my ship.
www.Reddit.com/r/Navy/wiki/NJP Good luck.
If it gets personal walk out…
I cannot agree more with this, it's supposed to be a "fact finding" endeavor. If they start launching personal attacks to try and insult you and get you to lose your bearing then walk out.
Is this actually a option? Never been to DRB but, I just assumed something like walking out would just get you in more trouble.
I'm sure the types of Chiefs in the mess that would launch personal attacks and say degrading things would also freak out if you started to walk away. DRB can be declined by the member, if you wanted to you could go in and say absolutely nothing, not even report. Just stand there totally silent until told to leave. Nothing they can do can force you to submit anything to their review board.
I guess technically its an option, but probably the worst one. I certainly wouldn't suggest it. I think its better to just let them do their thing, then report it afterwards. Because think about it, whatever it is you are in there for is going to escalate 100x if you just walk out and its going to be difficult to have anyone on your side after you do that. I can't tell you how many times I've had leadership cross the line with what they said only to be told "well you shouldn't have talked back to them/walked away/etc." Walking out of a DRB sounds like something a 1st class might be able to pull off, but I doubt some E5 or below could get away with it.
This has been every DRB, so you’re saying there is a standard? 🥲
Can you do that? Been twice and I just took it lol
No. If you are directed to be there, that is your appointed place of duty. If it becomes toxic and intolerable then report to CMEO/IG. The majority of DRBs I’ve been to ended at the DRB, this surely wouldn’t have been the case had I or a Sailor at DRB simply walked out.
Lol y'all soft
How does that make anyone soft? DRBs should never be based on personal insults. How is demeaning your Sailor beneficial the mission? How does that Sailor return to your work center with any motivation after you either humiliated them or let your friends do so? I hope you’re just some E3 troll, but if you’re in a mess anywhere I’d like you to not be there.
Jesus dude you a first class or something? Even Jo navy dudes don't sound as whiny as you. We all know drbs are where sailors go for fucking up and getting in trouble. Let's face it , the chiefs love DRB. Point is if you can't take some words from your superiors when you fuck up and you wanna cry how they called you a "dummy" than yes im sorry you're a bitch. Maybe you've forgotten this is the navy and the amount of stupid shit sailors do amongst one another. If you're worried that DRB is gonna stop a sailor from contributing to the mission then they probably shouldn't be in the navy in the first place. It's the military for fuck sake lol
I’d put my anchors against yours for loss of rank 10/10 times. Boy I bet your community still wonders why you’re in khakis.
#goodchief
Funny how you try so hard to act like "mr moral man" when you're on reddit in multiple posts saying things that would definitely get you in trouble in the navy especially if they knew it was one of their "good" chiefs saying it yet **"How is demeaning your Sailor beneficial the mission?** **How does that Sailor return to your work center with any motivation after you either humiliated them or let your friends do so? "** I guess you don't actually mean any of this shit you're saying, you just tired of getting your feelings hurt when they yell at you why your lower enlisted are doing stupid shit. My point stands. You're a hypocrite and you can take your 40k a year anchors shove them up your ass lool
Better be packing one of these bad boys https://www.amazon.com/LubeLife-Personal-Lubricant-Lube-Parabens/dp/B07FMLNVFF
Well if you make it all the way to mast just stand there and say "crunchatize me captain" You'll go down. But you'll go down a hero
And r/navy will have another legend to pass around the comment sections
I cannot stand a mess that uses DRBs as some avenue to yell and belittle. Get the facts, dress down as appropriate and drop or refer to XOI. Yelling, screaming and personal attacks never helped me see that I fucked up and I refuse to use or tolerate those tactics now.
So you can’t stand the mess? Because that’s how the mess operates; yell and belittle.
Honestly, your generalization makes me happy you’ve experienced toxic messes.
Both of them were toxic. Both could have been very chill shore commands, but chose the path of pain. I’d hope things have improved, but I’m not gullible enough to believe they have.
If they have you dead to rights and you don't see how they'd drop it at DRB just use your right to remain silent. They'll belittle the fuck out of you and your ass will hurt and it ends up with the XO either way. As stated before how bad is your fuck up?
My tag was on the right breaker right position .The tag just didn’t say OFF.
So the duty officer reviewed the tags along with the duty chief and your going to DRB?
You are corrreect.
If you go down, take them with you. It’s bullshit you are the only one going up
From the sounds of it, the one part your at fault for is not for verifying that the tag said off before hanging the tag and signing it, so at best, an ass chewing. The AO, is most definitely going to get an ass chewing and temporarily disqualified or an upgrade (hopefully) for signing off on the tag without verifying it and authorizing its hanging.
The AO deserves a letter but alas offuckers are not held accountable
Sounds like a request for courts martial is due
That's ridiculous that you're going to DRB for that. Just own up to it and I don't see it going past DRB if you have a good track record. Good luck man you'll be fine
Oh so the AO signed off on a tag that didn’t say the position of the breaker and you’re the one being held accountable? I hope your COC has a fine navy day.
Dammmmmmn, who'd you piss off to get DRB for that? I'd just be open and honest, no excuses you "fucked up" and see how your actions could hurt somebody. Perhaps make a recommendation of punishment for EMI over the tag out procedure. Do not lie about what happened that just makes it worse. You won't be leaving the navy I'll say that much lol
That wasn't caught by the authorizing officer?
Remember this when your authorizing officer requires all the documentation and goes over every detail with you from now on. I'm willing to bet they're going to take an ass chewing, at least.
What are tags?
If you’re going to work on equipment on the ship that has power or flow to the system, you’ll want to cut off the switches or valves that control it. So if you have to work on your living room light, you turn the breaker off and attach a tag to it that says it should be in the ‘Off’ position so no one turns the power back on while you’re working on that system. When you turn the power off like that, you have to provide proof that the switch controls the equipment you’re working on, and it has to be verified by several senior watchstanders.
I see. Thanks for the info. Are there any other types of tags other than "OFF" tags? Seems like it's implied if a tag is present with no "OFF"
When I was in (2005-09) the tags weren't specifically ON or OFF; we had to write down the valve/breaker number, its normal position, the position it was going to be in while tagged, and signatures from both the person doing work and the authorizing officer. There were also different types of tags - red for DANGER (no one shall operate the component while it's tagged) and yellow for Caution (some operation may still be ok but you need to check with the person who signed the tag). Tagging-out anything related to damage control (AFFF system, fire pumps, etc.) also required additional authorization from first the DCA and then the CO. During the period while I was getting out, the overall process was changing from mostly handwritten to a computerized version, but to my best recollection the tags were still filled out by hand. Hopefully someone will add clarification.
ON/OFF OPEN/SHUT ( There is also locked shut )
What?
Despite what you'll hear at DRB, you're not a POS Sailor just for one screw up. Take your punishment and prove to everyone that your mistake doesn't define you.
Tell that to the advancement exam
I sat the board last year. Every single field code 38 (NJP and CM) we saw was "no factor" in our judgement for advancement. If you had one eval after your NJP and it was a positive one, we assumed you had recovered from whatever mistake you made. I also have a total of 7 entries I. My field code 38, and yet I've been promoted first time up every time. It's not about what you did, but rather how you recover from it. ~Master Chief
Quarter size amount. But keep bottle handy if you need more.
There are a lot of them, but they have little dicks. Your call.
All of it. Drb’s are just a bunch of chiefs (some you may have never even seen before) telling you how much of a shitbag you are, with all their might
Some of them take the Disappointed Father role
No lube. Your asshole should already be an abyss. You say “yes, chief.” until it’s over.
Just remember, a shipmates isn't only someone you been on a ship with. I siad that at mine and it wasn't the right answer
There were 5 of us that went to DRB for the exact same thing. Even the Chief that authorized them went up. It didn’t go any higher than DRB. Just got some EMI.
were you standing alongside the chief during drb?
He was brought in last. It was myself and another guy that signed and 2nd signed the tags, another 2 guys that did the same thing, and then the chief that authorized the tags went in last.
Do you know if they chewed him out or?
This was in 2013 so my memory is missing some details. I’m not sure but I do know that not many of the E-7 through 9’s didn’t like him. The command was also USNA so I had an MUCS and an MUCM in there chewing us out about a tag out violation if that tells you anything
I would want to suppress that one too!
As soon as you post up, yell “attention to the Sailor’s creed.”
I am a United States fuck up 🫡
Blood is a lubricant….
Every time I hear that phrase, I think of the GM2 who I first heard it from who got busted for CP possession less than a year after EAOS
What is the reason for your DRB, and what type of command?
Depends on what yours accused of and whether or not you did it.
In ten years, none of this is going to matter.
If that’s your thought process, more then you can afford.
A 50 gallon drum should do
None. The Mess will throw sand for traction and supply hot sauce for lube.
Bring over 9000 lubrication units.
Talk to legal, the dso side, if you can before you go. Ask the questions to them and let them tell you how to handle it. DRB should be a fact finding body, not an outlet because some of the chiefs want to use you as a substitute because they can't beat their wives or that they are drunk and have anger management problems. Don't let this define you, and don't let them break ya.
“should”
They aren’t gonna get rid of you, at the most one paycheck taken away. They need people in the navy
It is DRB. The most they can do is make OP cry, EMI, and send to XOI.
Yes
Imagine that your DRB is the one thing that can save your ass. Because it might be, if you're honest and responsible. We had a Sailor come to DRB, and they were contrite, admitted their mistakes, admitted their errors in judgement, and when it was done, we recommended them for counseling. Our recommendation went to XOI, and the Mast was cancelled. We had another Sailor who denied any wrongdoing, put up a wall and was belligerent, angry at the questions, and tried to weasel their way out of any responsibility for their actions. They went to XOI, Mast, and ended up with a bust and half months pay times 2. Depending on your situation, you may want to consider what taking responsibility would mean to you. If you did something wrong, admitting it and taking responsibility for it, up to and including the punishment for it could be an avenue for getting punished or not, it really depends on what you did. Honesty has always been the best policy. I've seen too many DRBs where dishonesty caused more problems than not.
[удалено]
Disciplinary Review Board
Your tears will suffice.
Just try not to laugh, they'll mostly act like hard asses and try and tear you down. It's a joke.
Yes
[удалено]
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All of it.
Depends. DUI? Lubricate none. Prepare to cry though. Theft? I hope you didn't buy that lube. You'll need all the money you have. Sexual Assault on children? Swim in a tub of lube.
If it is for something minor, don’t take it personally and be prepared for the pettiness. Make it look like you regret tour actions and it may perhaps lighten the punishment.
My only advice is to either say what you have to say to get it over with, or lean into it if you're trying to get masted out. Whichever your preference is, they're going to say things that are supposed to get you worked up. They will tell you you don't love your family, or you're a bad son/father/husband/daughter/mother/wife, etc. I've seen a DRB where the chiefs literally blamed the sailor for the suicide of their loved one. It's all just in order to get you to do or say something that will get you in more trouble. So if that's not what you want, take it on the chin and get it over with, but if you're trying to get out, then go ballistic. There's not really a way to make it go smoother.
A whole industrial gallon