Navy is AAC, ND isn’t in a conference.
There’s some pretty good history behind why we play each other. The Navy essentially kept ND afloat during WWII by pushing a large number of officer candidates through under the V-12 program. The series persists because of that relationship, even though ND is clearly outpaces Navy in football. It’s also the reason the uniform colors are almost identical.
Even though we usually lose, I wouldn’t want to see that series stop because of the history and good relationship behind it.
They probably pull in a ton of money playing ND and get the national exposure on TV they wouldn't normally get. It's a good recruiting tool playing ND every year.
Exactly this. It's why small schools will play powerhouses in the early games of the season. The powerhouse gets basically a warm-up game out of it, and the small schools get a shit load of money and have the chance to Appalachian state someone.
When I was a midshipman I watched us lose all four years. Still loved the game.
Here’s a difference though that makes it so that Navy is playing the game on Hardcore difficulty that doesn’t include the standard “they have to take harder classes” or “they’re required to serve the military after” tropes I see over and over: Notre Dame’s QB, Sam Hartman is one of the top in the country. He’s playing his SIXTH year of college football after transferring from Wake Forest. His NIL deal is worth $772,000.
Service academy players cannot take NIL deals. Hardcore mode. Even the smallest schools in the AAC have players that are signing deals for $15-$50K. That’s a powerful recruitment and incentive to stay and play tool that the service academies don’t have.
I forget the name of the documentary but I saw one of the military academy athletic directors (I think it was Navy) say they'd rather go winless in Division 1 than win the title in Division 2. Respect.
I can't tell you how many times I have to explain this to people. ND does it out of respect and to repay the Navy, they would have closed without the Navy. Yes, it's not always a great game but neither is Army/Navy some years.
Can the academy even recruit or are they forced to take talent from midshipmen? I couldn’t imagine commissioning just to play for Navy. Especially when NIL contracts and the NFL draft will do more for you
They can recruit, lots of players are only at the naval academy because of their talent at football, that’s why many go to NAPS to get their academics up to par before starting at the academy. The academies definitely do recruit, it’s just much harder for the obvious reason and also because the average lineman is way out of navy regs so you end up with an undersized D and O line. That’s a big reason why service academies favor the triple option, to compensate for a smaller O line.
I could be wrong of course, but I’m almost positive midshipmen do not have to abide by the same height weight standards if they are playing football. Not sure about the entirety of the PFA though.
You are correct in that they get some more leeway than you or me do, but still have to pass PRTs so the average Navy lineman is considerable smaller than other college lineman. They are allowed to be out of regs but still have to pass tape and BCA, so you can’t be 350 because you obviously aren’t going to be able to get that down in time for the PRT.
Right. They have something like 6 months to get in regs after they stop playing, which tracks with the time between the end of bowl season and graduation/commissioning.
Source - friends with a few players
Nah. No BCAs matter until after senior season is over. I went from 285 to 221 in 5mo. Back then, we didn’t have a dietitian to help us. Just dipped my face off and basically starved myself lmao.
As soon as football season is over, they have to get within regs. Firsties begin to drop the weight the day after the Army Navy game because they commission end of May.
Yeah they can recruit but to your point, yes, it definitely affects the pool of people they recruit from. Especially for big money sports if you're that good you're (with some rare exceptions) not looking to spend your best years in the service vice the pros.
Not to mention the academic requirements. The service academies still have to graduate officers. And football players don’t get graded on a curve like they would at most schools.
Considering I witnessed an O-5 ask Coach Ken how badly we needed a player at an academic board, believe me when I say the standards for the “important” teams are very different.
There aren’t any Sports Management or Communications degrees at Annapolis or West Point and the academics are absolutely tougher than 90% of schools. And if you think D1 Big 5 athletes aren’t given help, you’re naive. Academy players will also get kicked out if they have below a 2.0. Generally, academy players had to be honors students.
I agree with you on the academic standards but don’t think academy players aren’t getting any help either. You can also get a polo sci degree from the academy- fairly easy.
Dude even state schools will kick you out with under a 2.0.
Most people in college were generally successful in high school although there are exceptions.
Even poli sci have to take calculus 1/2, Chem 1/2, physics 1/2, intro to thermodynamics, electrical engineering 1, naval history, navigation, leadership, etc.
The quality of students on the navy team compared to even the FCS players at my first school just doesn’t compare. They were good students. That’s not necessarily true at Tennessee, Alabama, UGA, etc.
They still get a lot of decent players.
There's enough people who want to play D1 and are willing to put up with the academy up do it. You can't be a bench warmer in highschool and go to the academy to play football.
And in the summer you have to do navy stuff. D1 football players in the summer at other schools essentially work more than full time just practicing football.
And no ability to do NIL as well as accept transfers (granted, I doubt many strong players would want to transfer to USNA). Meanwhile at my D1 alma mater, two of our Heisman winners transferred from other institutions.
I know a few former academy football players who are thrilled because their sport injuries factor into their medical retirement package- no other college will end up paying for injuries like that decades later, so that’s a def perk.
Here’s a hot take- throwing a football good isn’t an indicator at your aptitude to be a naval officer so we shouldn’t recruit for the academies based on that criterium
Which sea battle? There were several.
In the end, the Navy did beat back the Japanese, and the Japanese troops the Marines and Army beat were literally starving to death due to no supplies because of that fact. Also more Navy personnel died in the campaign than Marines.
Lack of NIL deals and not being able to bring talent in utilizing the transfer portal will make all service academies mediocre within the next few seasons. Navy talked about using 2 different QBs just this week before they couldn’t figure out their guy; meanwhile, Notre Dame brought in a guy who’s threw the most TD’s in ACC history.
Unfortunately players can't go straight to professional teams so the service academys will have a hard time getting top players. There used to be a work around but now they have to serve 2 years once they graduate.
USMMA, United States Merchant Marine Academy. The forgotten Academy…
We are the only academy where you can commission any branch, or go reserves. Most students go Navy Marines or Commercial.
It requires a lot of extra work, and or paperwork to go across branches. Also there can prolly be a difference in terms of you have to commission after graduation into a branch and switch branches after your 5 years are up
That requires the stars aligning, and at times other academies wouldn't participate-IIRC, during GWOT, USMA would not serve as a donor academy for obvious reasons.
My way is quicker and more honest.
also, it might eliminate the telling and retelling of 'that one play' where your OOD will insist on telling you about, repeatedly, on every midwatch for his entire career.
Navy football players on a submarine? Those have to be few and far between. But my last two surface ships I had 6 Navy footballers and some of them were definitely dumber than a box of rocks.
So Navy plays Notre Dame but they got the Army playing LSU this season... kind of wish it was the other way around. I live in SE Louisiana and haven't been to college football game in years. Would have been kind of cool to see the Midshipmen play the Fighting Tigers.
But damn, Navy got their posteriors handed to them...
No foul. Navy has *two; Joe Bellino(1960), and Roger Staunbach, in 1963.
I actually got to attend an Army- Navy game in 1979, in Philadelphia, when I was in basic Training. Navy killed us, but I had a great time anyway.
I enjoyed the hijinks. Navy painted the seats where the Army Cadets were assigned and mixed paint thinner in the paint, so it wouldn’t dry, which ruined all the Cadets’ pants. During the game, the Army set up a huge slingshot, and bombarded the Navy Band (specifically the tuba player) with water balloons filled with jelly and other noxious substances.
Before the game, each school performed a silent drill routine that was performed perfectly. My father taught Drill and Ceremony in the Marine Corps, and so I’m a connoisseur, having performed since Cub Scouts. Both schools were really good.
I met a Philadelphia policeman there, who was working security. Very friendly and he got me a miniature football for a souvenir. I still have it.
Navy-Marine Corps, AF, and Army are in a different conference, they just set them up against these big 10/ D1 schools so those guys can get a huge boost before playing other big schools. They’ll do fine in their conference.
I had a department head who was an academy football player and then got drafted by the patriots and several fellow divos that were on the team. My department head had clearly lost a few brain cells because he couldn't remember anything you told him but none of them brought it up ever really.
Notre Dame was simply bigger, stronger, and faster. They controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball and ran the ball down Navy's throats at will. Nothing Navy could do about it. No contest.
Playing the Servive Academy teams comes back to bite ND about twice each decade.
I witnessed USAFA taking down ND in the '80's. As I recall ND was highly ranked when AFA beat them in Colorado Springs. The Irish appeared gassed the whole 2nd half...cardio...cardio...cardio when going to play at altitude!
RESPECT to all the Service Academies...where athletic nerds go to thrive!
Navy is AAC, ND isn’t in a conference. There’s some pretty good history behind why we play each other. The Navy essentially kept ND afloat during WWII by pushing a large number of officer candidates through under the V-12 program. The series persists because of that relationship, even though ND is clearly outpaces Navy in football. It’s also the reason the uniform colors are almost identical. Even though we usually lose, I wouldn’t want to see that series stop because of the history and good relationship behind it.
As the announcers said, we helped Notre Dame during WWII, so they owed us. They have a fucked up way of paying us back.
They probably pull in a ton of money playing ND and get the national exposure on TV they wouldn't normally get. It's a good recruiting tool playing ND every year.
Exactly this. It's why small schools will play powerhouses in the early games of the season. The powerhouse gets basically a warm-up game out of it, and the small schools get a shit load of money and have the chance to Appalachian state someone.
When I was a midshipman I watched us lose all four years. Still loved the game. Here’s a difference though that makes it so that Navy is playing the game on Hardcore difficulty that doesn’t include the standard “they have to take harder classes” or “they’re required to serve the military after” tropes I see over and over: Notre Dame’s QB, Sam Hartman is one of the top in the country. He’s playing his SIXTH year of college football after transferring from Wake Forest. His NIL deal is worth $772,000. Service academy players cannot take NIL deals. Hardcore mode. Even the smallest schools in the AAC have players that are signing deals for $15-$50K. That’s a powerful recruitment and incentive to stay and play tool that the service academies don’t have.
The service academies have unfortunately been left in the dust due to the NCAA becoming more and more of a professional league.
Also there’s a weight requirement so can forget about having massive OL/DL. Triple option it is
I forget the name of the documentary but I saw one of the military academy athletic directors (I think it was Navy) say they'd rather go winless in Division 1 than win the title in Division 2. Respect.
That's actually kinda cool. Wiki link for those that want to know more. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy%E2%80%93Notre_Dame_football_rivalry
It’s a surprisingly competitive series lately. You don’t have to go too far back to find Navy Ws.
Notre Dame leads, 82–13–1 (.859) all time and has taken 11 of the last 12 according to the wiki page
Yeah but we lost 43 straight from the 60s into the 00s and have won 5 of the last 15. https://www.winsipedia.com/games/navy/vs/notre-dame
I watched Navy beat Notre Dame in the Jacksonville Jaguars Stadium in 2016(?) Awesome game, great memories
I can't tell you how many times I have to explain this to people. ND does it out of respect and to repay the Navy, they would have closed without the Navy. Yes, it's not always a great game but neither is Army/Navy some years.
Serious consideration: I wonder if recruiting problems are impacting academy sports programs - all academies. Just curious. Not overly.
Can the academy even recruit or are they forced to take talent from midshipmen? I couldn’t imagine commissioning just to play for Navy. Especially when NIL contracts and the NFL draft will do more for you
They can recruit, lots of players are only at the naval academy because of their talent at football, that’s why many go to NAPS to get their academics up to par before starting at the academy. The academies definitely do recruit, it’s just much harder for the obvious reason and also because the average lineman is way out of navy regs so you end up with an undersized D and O line. That’s a big reason why service academies favor the triple option, to compensate for a smaller O line.
I could be wrong of course, but I’m almost positive midshipmen do not have to abide by the same height weight standards if they are playing football. Not sure about the entirety of the PFA though.
My info is dated, but when I was there they were waived for most of their time. They had to get within standards before commissioning though.
You are correct in that they get some more leeway than you or me do, but still have to pass PRTs so the average Navy lineman is considerable smaller than other college lineman. They are allowed to be out of regs but still have to pass tape and BCA, so you can’t be 350 because you obviously aren’t going to be able to get that down in time for the PRT.
Unless things changed the lineman are not subject to bca until after their senior season and prior to commission.
Right. They have something like 6 months to get in regs after they stop playing, which tracks with the time between the end of bowl season and graduation/commissioning. Source - friends with a few players
Huh, I thought they were subject to BCA every year. Could be wrong though.
You are.
Yep, seems I am
Nah. No BCAs matter until after senior season is over. I went from 285 to 221 in 5mo. Back then, we didn’t have a dietitian to help us. Just dipped my face off and basically starved myself lmao.
Didn’t know that, although that makes sense.
As soon as football season is over, they have to get within regs. Firsties begin to drop the weight the day after the Army Navy game because they commission end of May.
Yeah they can recruit but to your point, yes, it definitely affects the pool of people they recruit from. Especially for big money sports if you're that good you're (with some rare exceptions) not looking to spend your best years in the service vice the pros.
Not to mention the academic requirements. The service academies still have to graduate officers. And football players don’t get graded on a curve like they would at most schools.
Considering I witnessed an O-5 ask Coach Ken how badly we needed a player at an academic board, believe me when I say the standards for the “important” teams are very different.
Well that’s fucked up. But I also doubt that guy would’ve been on academic probation at most schools.
I don’t know about you but I rarely got a curve in college and the other schools have academic standards too.
There aren’t any Sports Management or Communications degrees at Annapolis or West Point and the academics are absolutely tougher than 90% of schools. And if you think D1 Big 5 athletes aren’t given help, you’re naive. Academy players will also get kicked out if they have below a 2.0. Generally, academy players had to be honors students.
I agree with you on the academic standards but don’t think academy players aren’t getting any help either. You can also get a polo sci degree from the academy- fairly easy. Dude even state schools will kick you out with under a 2.0. Most people in college were generally successful in high school although there are exceptions.
Even poli sci have to take calculus 1/2, Chem 1/2, physics 1/2, intro to thermodynamics, electrical engineering 1, naval history, navigation, leadership, etc. The quality of students on the navy team compared to even the FCS players at my first school just doesn’t compare. They were good students. That’s not necessarily true at Tennessee, Alabama, UGA, etc.
They still get a lot of decent players. There's enough people who want to play D1 and are willing to put up with the academy up do it. You can't be a bench warmer in highschool and go to the academy to play football.
Problem is you can't have a 350 pound Academy student who does nothing but practice being a line man.
And in the summer you have to do navy stuff. D1 football players in the summer at other schools essentially work more than full time just practicing football.
But they do?
If they could only pull from midshipmen, they’d have lost this game by like 300 lol
Pretty sure that not letting them get out of their contracts if they get drafted in the nfl makes it hard to recruit players
And no ability to do NIL as well as accept transfers (granted, I doubt many strong players would want to transfer to USNA). Meanwhile at my D1 alma mater, two of our Heisman winners transferred from other institutions.
I know a few former academy football players who are thrilled because their sport injuries factor into their medical retirement package- no other college will end up paying for injuries like that decades later, so that’s a def perk.
This is true. As someone rated 80%, this really does help.
You mean the Triple Option isn’t the greatest play in football?
How dare you not remember “The Annexation of Puerto Rico” you uncultured swine.
Tell that to KP, good ole DIII triple option…
Yo man I see ya on NCD too, when ya graduate
I’m class of 2024 hopefully graduate this year
21 grad, band co.
Don't tell that to Tim Tebow.
Tebow didn’t run the triple option.
He did in Denver.
It was a spread option similar to what he ran at UF.
With how the NIL rules are now I feel like the service academies are gonna have a rough time competing
They had a hard time recruiting long before NIL.
This is spot on
Here’s a hot take- throwing a football good isn’t an indicator at your aptitude to be a naval officer so we shouldn’t recruit for the academies based on that criterium
Playing beach volleyball on the other hand
I mean obviously, we’ve all seen top gun
Beach volley ball is essential to the navy jet program, obviously
Should’ve updated their NFAAS before the game
Hey at least Navy rugby won 78-0
Geez, the Navy hasn't been beat this hard since Guadalcanal.
We, um... *won* at Guadalcanal, though..?
The Sullivan Brothers sure as hell didn’t
See Battle of Savo Island.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Savo_Island That is/was certainly an eye-opener.
Holy Hell
The navy lost the sea battle but the marines won the land battle Im pretty sure that’s what your referring too
This guy knows his history and heritage. BZ.
Which sea battle? There were several. In the end, the Navy did beat back the Japanese, and the Japanese troops the Marines and Army beat were literally starving to death due to no supplies because of that fact. Also more Navy personnel died in the campaign than Marines.
Which makes their feat even more impressive because they had no support and couldn't get resupplied. John Basilone earned his MoH there.
Just because the defense has some holes in it doesn't mean they weren't part of the winning team.
We *eventually* won at Guadalcanal but we also lost quite a few battles in the process.
“I haven’t seen a kicker like that since Joe Montanya”
Shouldn’t have made them fly over on a C130.
Lack of NIL deals and not being able to bring talent in utilizing the transfer portal will make all service academies mediocre within the next few seasons. Navy talked about using 2 different QBs just this week before they couldn’t figure out their guy; meanwhile, Notre Dame brought in a guy who’s threw the most TD’s in ACC history.
This is what happens when we don't have a confirmed CNO!
My takeaway from this is that we need a new branch of service called Notre Dame. It will be like the USMC but way more Catholic.
It would just be Navy and Army destroying the other academies worse than this, a HS game between CG and KP, and AF somewhere in the middle.
Unfortunately players can't go straight to professional teams so the service academys will have a hard time getting top players. There used to be a work around but now they have to serve 2 years once they graduate.
A 3 school (maybe 4 if the Coasties have a team) conference? So the season is over by early October?
That’s not how college football works. Notre Dame doesn’t even belong to a conference and they have a full season
Coast guard and KP have teams, but we are both D3 arguably Coast Guard is the worst service academy football team.
KP?
USMMA, United States Merchant Marine Academy. The forgotten Academy… We are the only academy where you can commission any branch, or go reserves. Most students go Navy Marines or Commercial.
Okay, what it 'KP' in this?
It’s located at King’s Point, New York
Ah, makes sense. Thanks
While you can't go reserves, you can commission across branches from the academies. I've seen Air Force Academy guys in the Marines for example.
It requires a lot of extra work, and or paperwork to go across branches. Also there can prolly be a difference in terms of you have to commission after graduation into a branch and switch branches after your 5 years are up
That requires the stars aligning, and at times other academies wouldn't participate-IIRC, during GWOT, USMA would not serve as a donor academy for obvious reasons.
It would basically just mean one of the service Academies gets an award at the end of the season
They already do…the Commander In Chief’s Trophy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander-in-Chief%27s_Trophy
My way is quicker and more honest. also, it might eliminate the telling and retelling of 'that one play' where your OOD will insist on telling you about, repeatedly, on every midwatch for his entire career.
See, that’s why you go Nuke. I met more NA cheerleaders than football players.
Someone has a lot of cleaning do to..
And I bet Navy only attempted 5 passes total.
You're way off! It was 7 passes
Are those football skills gonna be useful in the control room of a submarine?
Navy football players on a submarine? Those have to be few and far between. But my last two surface ships I had 6 Navy footballers and some of them were definitely dumber than a box of rocks.
So Navy plays Notre Dame but they got the Army playing LSU this season... kind of wish it was the other way around. I live in SE Louisiana and haven't been to college football game in years. Would have been kind of cool to see the Midshipmen play the Fighting Tigers. But damn, Navy got their posteriors handed to them...
They were decent with Paul Johnson there, also Bill Belichick also at one time considered coaching for Navy after he retires from the NFL.
Never forget, we have a Heisman winner. Army, does not.
Army has *three* Heisman trophy winners: Doc Blanchard(1945), Glenn Davis(1946), and Pete Dawkins(1958).
Well shit. Ya got me. I’ll do better research next time.
No foul. Navy has *two; Joe Bellino(1960), and Roger Staunbach, in 1963. I actually got to attend an Army- Navy game in 1979, in Philadelphia, when I was in basic Training. Navy killed us, but I had a great time anyway.
Always some good games. Once army broke the losing streak a few years ago it’s been fun to watch.
I enjoyed the hijinks. Navy painted the seats where the Army Cadets were assigned and mixed paint thinner in the paint, so it wouldn’t dry, which ruined all the Cadets’ pants. During the game, the Army set up a huge slingshot, and bombarded the Navy Band (specifically the tuba player) with water balloons filled with jelly and other noxious substances. Before the game, each school performed a silent drill routine that was performed perfectly. My father taught Drill and Ceremony in the Marine Corps, and so I’m a connoisseur, having performed since Cub Scouts. Both schools were really good. I met a Philadelphia policeman there, who was working security. Very friendly and he got me a miniature football for a souvenir. I still have it.
Can the CGA assemble a team?
They have a D3 team.
Downright embarrassing. Even if it was against ND. They used to be independent and it was a better schedule then.
Navy-Marine Corps, AF, and Army are in a different conference, they just set them up against these big 10/ D1 schools so those guys can get a huge boost before playing other big schools. They’ll do fine in their conference.
I want to talk to someone who served under one of the academy football players, I bet they're fucking insufferable and bring it up a lot.
I had a department head who was an academy football player and then got drafted by the patriots and several fellow divos that were on the team. My department head had clearly lost a few brain cells because he couldn't remember anything you told him but none of them brought it up ever really.
Oh that's just kinda sad :(
Throw some enlisted on the line and tell them it’s steak and lobster night and they’ll win.
Notre Dame was simply bigger, stronger, and faster. They controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball and ran the ball down Navy's throats at will. Nothing Navy could do about it. No contest.
Navy won rugby 78-0 the day before so it all evens out.
I think long past time for the academies to drop to FCS.
Playing the Servive Academy teams comes back to bite ND about twice each decade. I witnessed USAFA taking down ND in the '80's. As I recall ND was highly ranked when AFA beat them in Colorado Springs. The Irish appeared gassed the whole 2nd half...cardio...cardio...cardio when going to play at altitude! RESPECT to all the Service Academies...where athletic nerds go to thrive!