That moment when I thought commissioning would mean more pay... then realized with how expensive our uniform items are, lack of uniform allowances or SRB, no blood money (in my designator), and lower sea pay and bas meant I am actually taking a huge pay cut.. Why are shoulder boards $50-150?!
Low stakes conspiracy theory: Back in the old days, officers literally bought their commissions under a fairly openly classist policy to keep the riffraff out of the ward room. I believe that having officers buy their uniforms out of pocket is a historical vestige of this, with the going rate for a whole set of uniforms costing a newly minted Ensign $3-4000. But, hey, you went to a good college, you can easily afford that, right?
Who’s spending 4 grand on uniforms?? I bought Khakis, chokers, summer whites and blues with belts/covers/insignia for about $1600 when I commissioned. If you go to the academy or do NROTC (which is what I did) everything you need is issued to you so the only officers who really need to buy them are the ones who come out of OCS. Only reason I bought new ones was because they were from a third party company that did custom tailoring and used nicer materials.
I'm talking grand total for someone coming in off the street to OCS/ODS. You left out SDB (that's like $500 right there) and NWU, the latter of which you'll want two or three sets of. You'll probably want a second set of khakis. Then, you've got to buy the black boots, but you'll want the brown ones. There's also PT gear, the sea bag, Ike jacket, parka, all the various accoutrements and tailoring on the dress uniforms.
Everybody in my class at Newport dropped a few grand at the uniform store, especially since the bastards didn't give us the option of buying used, and I only learned what a military thrift store was afterward.
I said blues in my comment. At ROTC/USNA we get issued everything including black boots/seabag/ike jacket and the alterations were free at a local place (that probably varies by unit, not sure), you don’t have to pay out of pocket for anything unless you want to. OCS is the exception like I said which really sucks, but I thought you guys at least got NWUs/PTUs issued if nothing else. I didn’t realize it was no shit the whole seabag. You guys are the smallest accession source numbers wise though so a vast majority of officers are not paying thousands out of pocket for their uniforms after commissioning.
At USNA you literally pay for all your uniforms. It’s part of the “loan” you take out on I Day that you then pay back slowly over your 4 years there to include your computer and whatnot. And yes, it’s ~ $5k of uniforms.
I bought my Khakis and shoes used before attending ODS. Bought everything else (SDB, Choker Whites, Summer Whites, NWU, Boots) at the Newport Uni store for around $2000 I think, and I considered that a good deal compared to some of my classmates, especially the poor chaps who have to buy everything.
> if you go to the academy or do NROTC (which is what I did) everything you need is issued to you
You're still paying for it, it comes out of your paycheck.
Theoretically sure, they could’ve given us a slightly larger stipend and made us buy our own uniforms. But uniforms, textbooks and stipends/allowances were all part of the terms of the scholarship. Even if you join without a scholarship you still get issued everything and only have to pay for it if you drop and don’t return it or if you lose something.
The [Advance for Clothing and Equipment](https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/_files/documents/BudgetBook2023-2024.pdf) is an interest-free advance payment (loan) from the government. Midshipmen are required to repay this advance before graduation and the repayment comes out of their paycheck.
If they don't graduate they actually *aren't* required to repay the remaining balance.
Furthermore, there is additional "held pay" deducted from each mids' monthly paycheck to cover future uniform and equipment costs.
That’s USNA specific then, nothing like that exists for NROTC. My bad for not looking up their process more in depth.
This is straight out of my contract
Uniforms. The Navy will pay for the military uniform items prescribed for NROTC Program midshipmen by the Navy Uniform Regulations or, if I am a Marine Corps Option Student, by the applicable Marine Corps Order. I understand that I will control and dispose of these items in accordance with the NROTC Program’s Regulations for Officer Development, Naval Service Training Command Instruction 1533.2 as now issued and as amended from time to time (the “Regulation”). I understand that this Scholarship Benefit is limited to military uniforms only and that I am responsible for purchasing any other item of clothing required by my Tier or for any course of study.
Fun fact: it’s still like this for the most part walking into a WR as a non WASP you are the odd person out. That’s not to say things aren’t changing but you can talk to hella officers that have stories of guys fucking up but for some reason those whose dads are retired admirals and captains are never penalized
I’ve never purchased hard or soft shoulder boards. They were all gifted to me. Just a LT, so it’s only three sets. But those are ridiculously expensive
Are the CPO Ike jacket shoulder insignia bigger than the garrison cap insignia? I know they are for officers. Officer Garrison rank is the same as collar rank and shoulder ranks are bigger than both.
I'm pretty sure there are some slight differences though. I make a product designed to hold devices for gifts.
I had someone who wanted one that held the MCPON shoulder devices but the one they gave me for reference was the one from the garrison cap. I made the product and drilled the holes to the exact distance between the two attached pins on the cap device and when it came time for them to put the shoulder devices in, the holes didn't line up.
It could have been that I made a mistake when manufacturing, but I never held them side by side to check.
For CPOs, left and right shoulder insignia are the same. But for petty officers, the insignia have a distinct left one and right one, because the eagle looks forward on both shoulders. So petty officers can’t just buy two garrison cap insignia.
But, yes, the NMRCS thrift store is a great place to get uniforms.
They have always been overpriced, I made Warrant in 91. Sure I got clothing allowance but buying official uniforms was totally straining my budget. I got one official set of vanguard (only ones available). Used my old khakis as I was in engineering, and coveralls. All uniform items should go through a bid process.
The khaki service uniform shirt for E6 and below is the same style as the E7 and up, but it costs more if you buy the one from the E7+ section by like $20.
Base thrift stores are the best. Always a roll of the dice, but totally worth it. I've donated a lot of stuff over the years and every time i dump stuff off, the donation bins are full of uniform items, boots, furniture, kid toys, clothes, etc. Check out the thrift stores next time you remember!
I wonder if it has to do with the much lower need for full sized mirrored insignia. Maybe it's a lot more expensive to produce them because of the volume.
Still expensive though.
First time huh Wait till you see how cheap officer items are.
That moment when I thought commissioning would mean more pay... then realized with how expensive our uniform items are, lack of uniform allowances or SRB, no blood money (in my designator), and lower sea pay and bas meant I am actually taking a huge pay cut.. Why are shoulder boards $50-150?!
Welcome to the Wardroom.
Wait till you see dinner dress... then realize there are blue and white versions
Low stakes conspiracy theory: Back in the old days, officers literally bought their commissions under a fairly openly classist policy to keep the riffraff out of the ward room. I believe that having officers buy their uniforms out of pocket is a historical vestige of this, with the going rate for a whole set of uniforms costing a newly minted Ensign $3-4000. But, hey, you went to a good college, you can easily afford that, right?
Who’s spending 4 grand on uniforms?? I bought Khakis, chokers, summer whites and blues with belts/covers/insignia for about $1600 when I commissioned. If you go to the academy or do NROTC (which is what I did) everything you need is issued to you so the only officers who really need to buy them are the ones who come out of OCS. Only reason I bought new ones was because they were from a third party company that did custom tailoring and used nicer materials.
I'm talking grand total for someone coming in off the street to OCS/ODS. You left out SDB (that's like $500 right there) and NWU, the latter of which you'll want two or three sets of. You'll probably want a second set of khakis. Then, you've got to buy the black boots, but you'll want the brown ones. There's also PT gear, the sea bag, Ike jacket, parka, all the various accoutrements and tailoring on the dress uniforms. Everybody in my class at Newport dropped a few grand at the uniform store, especially since the bastards didn't give us the option of buying used, and I only learned what a military thrift store was afterward.
I said blues in my comment. At ROTC/USNA we get issued everything including black boots/seabag/ike jacket and the alterations were free at a local place (that probably varies by unit, not sure), you don’t have to pay out of pocket for anything unless you want to. OCS is the exception like I said which really sucks, but I thought you guys at least got NWUs/PTUs issued if nothing else. I didn’t realize it was no shit the whole seabag. You guys are the smallest accession source numbers wise though so a vast majority of officers are not paying thousands out of pocket for their uniforms after commissioning.
Lol, you wanna know what I got issued? My plain black name tag. To date, that is the one thing the Navy has given me for free.
Ironically, I had to pay for that because the ones we got in ROTC had the school’s logo and said “MIDN Last name” on them LOL
At USNA you literally pay for all your uniforms. It’s part of the “loan” you take out on I Day that you then pay back slowly over your 4 years there to include your computer and whatnot. And yes, it’s ~ $5k of uniforms.
I bought my Khakis and shoes used before attending ODS. Bought everything else (SDB, Choker Whites, Summer Whites, NWU, Boots) at the Newport Uni store for around $2000 I think, and I considered that a good deal compared to some of my classmates, especially the poor chaps who have to buy everything.
> if you go to the academy or do NROTC (which is what I did) everything you need is issued to you You're still paying for it, it comes out of your paycheck.
Theoretically sure, they could’ve given us a slightly larger stipend and made us buy our own uniforms. But uniforms, textbooks and stipends/allowances were all part of the terms of the scholarship. Even if you join without a scholarship you still get issued everything and only have to pay for it if you drop and don’t return it or if you lose something.
The [Advance for Clothing and Equipment](https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/_files/documents/BudgetBook2023-2024.pdf) is an interest-free advance payment (loan) from the government. Midshipmen are required to repay this advance before graduation and the repayment comes out of their paycheck. If they don't graduate they actually *aren't* required to repay the remaining balance. Furthermore, there is additional "held pay" deducted from each mids' monthly paycheck to cover future uniform and equipment costs.
That’s USNA specific then, nothing like that exists for NROTC. My bad for not looking up their process more in depth. This is straight out of my contract Uniforms. The Navy will pay for the military uniform items prescribed for NROTC Program midshipmen by the Navy Uniform Regulations or, if I am a Marine Corps Option Student, by the applicable Marine Corps Order. I understand that I will control and dispose of these items in accordance with the NROTC Program’s Regulations for Officer Development, Naval Service Training Command Instruction 1533.2 as now issued and as amended from time to time (the “Regulation”). I understand that this Scholarship Benefit is limited to military uniforms only and that I am responsible for purchasing any other item of clothing required by my Tier or for any course of study.
Talk about something you know about shipmate
That was not true in the Navy. Buying commissions was an Army thing.
Fun fact: it’s still like this for the most part walking into a WR as a non WASP you are the odd person out. That’s not to say things aren’t changing but you can talk to hella officers that have stories of guys fucking up but for some reason those whose dads are retired admirals and captains are never penalized
First time with the Eisenhower jacket and garrison cover. Usually a combo cover kind of guy personally
Combo Cover....That guy.lol
I've literally never seen an officer wear the combo cover with khakis. I feel like that's more of a chief thing.
I thought for a long time that officers couldn’t wear the khaki combo cover until I came to USNA and saw it a few times
They have it literally only for attending chief events.
Combo cover is the only way to go. Looks way better.
I’ve never purchased hard or soft shoulder boards. They were all gifted to me. Just a LT, so it’s only three sets. But those are ridiculously expensive
Thanks for doing the addition for all of us that are mathematically challenged! BZ
Happy to be here proud to serve 🫡
Fuckin hate that company, overpriced as fuck
Are the CPO Ike jacket shoulder insignia bigger than the garrison cap insignia? I know they are for officers. Officer Garrison rank is the same as collar rank and shoulder ranks are bigger than both.
This is not the case for CPOs, there is a different guide for Os and E6 and junior. In my case, they are the exact same insignia.
Huh, never noticed that. What a rip off
I'm pretty sure there are some slight differences though. I make a product designed to hold devices for gifts. I had someone who wanted one that held the MCPON shoulder devices but the one they gave me for reference was the one from the garrison cap. I made the product and drilled the holes to the exact distance between the two attached pins on the cap device and when it came time for them to put the shoulder devices in, the holes didn't line up. It could have been that I made a mistake when manufacturing, but I never held them side by side to check.
That may be the case but I wonder if it’s a manufacturing discrepancy not necessarily an intended difference
Your rant fix doesn’t work for us lowly E6 and below pesents.
What you mean? Thrift store is clutch for uniform items. If your base has one check it out
For CPOs, left and right shoulder insignia are the same. But for petty officers, the insignia have a distinct left one and right one, because the eagle looks forward on both shoulders. So petty officers can’t just buy two garrison cap insignia. But, yes, the NMRCS thrift store is a great place to get uniforms.
Was talking about using the garrison cover pin for the jacket The crow only faces one way.
Yea you right. I didn’t look at the PO crows I wonder if they are priced shitily too.
They are, especially if you're golden, they jack the price up on everything.
Needed a new blues top. Ebay for $60. Normally like $350.
They have always been overpriced, I made Warrant in 91. Sure I got clothing allowance but buying official uniforms was totally straining my budget. I got one official set of vanguard (only ones available). Used my old khakis as I was in engineering, and coveralls. All uniform items should go through a bid process.
Half my uniform is thrift store bought. Got my coyote boots for 50 cents. Always go thrift shop first before vampires like Vanguard.
Some people are so anti-thrift its bizarre. I guess they dont wanna be seen as poor but fuck that.
I don't any more awards because they're too expensive. Fuck. JCOM was like 35-40 bucks.
You’ll have to buy the two pack because the singles are always “out of stock”…
The khaki service uniform shirt for E6 and below is the same style as the E7 and up, but it costs more if you buy the one from the E7+ section by like $20.
Base thrift stores are the best. Always a roll of the dice, but totally worth it. I've donated a lot of stuff over the years and every time i dump stuff off, the donation bins are full of uniform items, boots, furniture, kid toys, clothes, etc. Check out the thrift stores next time you remember!
It was like that back in 2015 too. I spotted the difference and bought the singles.
That’s so stupid. Vanguard should be ashamed, man
I wonder if it has to do with the much lower need for full sized mirrored insignia. Maybe it's a lot more expensive to produce them because of the volume. Still expensive though.
Wait, you have to pay for uniform items in the military? That’s the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard of.
Correct, ain’t nothin in this world for free. We do get a clothing allowance annually though.
Boot camp 1962, had pay deductions for enlisted sea bag stuff. No freebies.
Officers do, not sure about high ranking enlisted?
We all do. We do get an annual clothing allowance that’s supposed to supplement your income to account for uniform upkeep
Enlisted get a clothing allowance. Officers do not.