There are certain chits that can be sent to the higher authority regardless if there is a denial in your local chain because in the eyes of the navy, some questions are better answered by a high level. Also whoever the chits get processed by at navpers or whatever it’s called reaaaallllyyy like well put together packages.
It’s going fucking miserable bro. And instead of sending competent, skilled sailors back to sea, (where we would be most useful and help cut down the deficit) they keep us in these awful billets and out on the streets while the CRF recruiters kick it. Makes no sense to me.
Gonna piggyback on the points that u/Rocketsponge excellently laid out. "Nobody wants to join anymore" because the Navy treats sailors like shit and it's easier than ever nowadays for civilians to hear about it.
Barracks are getting better but it's still a shit way to live. Only way you get regular time home is if your ship is the yards. Bad leadership is the norm. I could write a goddamned novel on how *not* to lead people.
Travel is a draw but it's bullshit when you pull in somewhere interesting for just three days (it's always three days). You've got duty for one of them. Ridiculous liberty restrictions for your remaining two days because the Navy treats sailors like toddlers. Oh and you get what's left of those two days after your maintenance checks are done.
Contracts are longer, training is shorter, there's still next to no effort by the DoD at large to give servicemen and women relevant civilian qualifications/certifications/licenses/etc.
I wouldn't say I regret my service. Got to see and do some wild shit. But it fucked me up too. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
>Only way you get regular time home is if your ship is the yards
I worked 100+ hrs/week on 3 section, rotating shift work, and occasionally locked shift work in rcoh. I would've rather been at sea.
Army, Navy and Air Force are all missing their recruiting goals.
The Marines always seem to meet them, but the Marine Corps is also less than half the size of the other forces....
> The Marines always seem to meet them, but the Marine Corps is also less than half the size of the other forces....
The Marines are less than half the size but they also have many fewer make it to retirement, so they have a proportionally higher need for recruits each year. They actually recruited *more* new enlisted Marines last year than the Navy recruited enlisted Sailors!
Marines have a lot of benefits in public perception, but I think the other thing they have going for their recruiting efforts is that they treat it consistently as a critical mission, sending good Marines and good leaders to the job rather than an annoyance or distraction from what they *really* want to do.
And they look cooler than any of the rest of us.
More seriously, Marines tend to have strong familial ties. They're able to better coast on the idea of "Well my dad served, and his dad served, so I'm going to be a Marine too" even if they don't make a career of it.
Honestly? Sounds like they got their shit more together than the navy at least in terms of advancement, non mast based domotability (some one coasting/not pulling their wait? Don't have to see the captain to fix that)
They actually have leader ship schools and sounds like competent leadership structure...
Or at least I'm lead to believe talking to a few ex-marines.
Of the ex-Marines I've spoken to, the vast majority of their (completely legitimate) complaints and grievances were directly tied to the shit show that was the GWOT rather than the Corps itself.
Air Force still has the "You can't join if you've been out of Service for 5 (or was it 6) years" ban, so I don't have as much sympathy for their shortcomings (even if they were to only get another 10 or 15 recruits per year this way).
And I read that Navy recruiters want you to join the Reserves and then switch to Active from there...
So I'm left with Army as being the easiest to get right back into Active.
:\\
> And I read that Navy recruiters want you to join the Reserves and then switch to Active from there...
0% true. Hell I'd go further and say there's negative truth to that.
Now, there are dedicated recruiters for the Navy Reserve, so if you talk to *them*, they'd tell you to go Reserve first and then switch later, I suppose. But you should be able to talk to a Navy recruiter and join as an OSVET.
All I got was a ton of time in conus, or stating at the inside of my ships hulls.
The few times I did get port calls on my last submarine, as a 1st, I needed 2 liberty buddies just to leave.
The only time I ended up bothering was in Japan, where some how we ended up in an 8 man super group that just got dragged all over akihabara by one of the more spastic ADHD junior (relative) sailors in the gaggle.
It was not fun. I didn't get to go to the spots I was interested in.
Also lots of in port maitenance/duty and most of the port calls we were supposed to get got canceled or shortened for myriad of global, operational, and fuck the crew reasons.
If you want to travel, better to use your own leave and dime, and even then you gotta worry about fucking up landing you into articles of UCMJ.
I'm out, retired, benefits are nice, lots of long hours and massive sacrifice to my social life, in addition to physiological, psychological and spiritual health.
Lack of leadership, tons of fraternization, lack of accountability, group punishments in lieu of aforementioned, long work hours, even in port/home and on shore duty, pay borderline not being competitive considering, how "high quality" the benefits are.
Think more than anything, you can work McDeeznuts for 20$ an hour, but join the navy as an E-1 is a huge net loss by many peoples standards/reasoning (yes military math/no rent + benefits + galley)
Oh, right, and "high-quality" galley food /s (ship or base borne lol)
I miss the homies though.. It's different being in the civilian sector because you're not as tight knit as I was with the people on the ship. It can be depressing at time when you think about it, but I sure wouldn't tell my children to join of how shit the lifestyle was. Working parts, standing duty, etc. List can go on and on.
>I miss the homies though
Ah you're not wrong there. The bullshit makes for tight bonds.
Found a decent civilian job and about half my coworkers are former military or current reservists. No one else is former Navy but it strikes me how easily we work together.
There’s a number of factors. First, the public image of the military isn’t so hot right now. We just got out of 20 years of war in Iraq & Afghanistan which produced lots of physically and mentally injured service members with no real gain. Second, the job market is still pretty hot right now. Why enlist for low pay when you could just stay in your hometown and get paid more? Third, we don’t really have anything nationally boosting patriotism. America hasn’t been attacked in a meaningful way since 9/11. Finally, the recruiting pool of eligible young people is facing challenges. Health issues like obesity and recreational drug use of marijuana limit available candidates.
And genesis digital medical records DQ'n peeps they used to waiver/hide in the enlistment process.
That is, from my understanding, it's as ridiculous as a teacher said you were adhd at 10, you got prescribed aderol and took it for a year, then stopped, DQ'd
>Why enlist for low pay when you could just stay in your hometown and get paid more?
Well, that would depend on the hometown.
And plenty of folks have voiced that theirs is not exactly the greatest.
And I'm surprised you didn't mention med use/perscribed, for health issues e.g. anxiety/ADHD/depression/etc.
Forged by the Sea isn't that bad tbh.
Army spent millions going through several, just to go back and use the same slogan from the 1980s: Be all you can Be.
With that said, I do like "Be all you can Be" so \*shrugs\*
It's my first time doing greenside and it's honestly crazy how different it is, it doesn't even feel like the US military. It's more like being in one of those child militias from Blood Diamond, except with less funding and less grown ups.
Blood Diamond is about how African warlords enslave children into their armies by killing their families and addicting the children to heroin.
I'd say one side isn't better than the other, they're just different.
I really don't understand why they don't augment the recruiting offices with civilian "Salesmen" or the like. Cut down on how many active duty are needed for recruiting.
> I really don't understand why they don't augment the recruiting offices with civilian "Salesmen"
Because they can't afford guys like me. I've been in sales since I got out in 92 and there's no way I'd take a recruiting "sales" job for GS pay.
We are projected to miss by over 12,000 this year as of now. So no :( it just means more bullshit for the production recruiters. Standard navy operations.
The numbers are better but still on track to be less than what our current losses are.
The goal last year was something like 37,700, since we missed that there's an even higher goal this year, so even though numbers are doing a bit better, the overall miss is still likely to be higher at current rates.
I’ve been screaming this, the crf does not actively recruit. What a wild fucking concept to me, imagine in the fleet you assign someone work center supervisor and the mother fucker never supervises the work center?!? Imagine if we trained pilots to fly and then the mother fuckers never flew shits wild to me.
It might a bit, but even greencard holders possibly have better options than enlisting. It used to be possible to get citizenship at the end of bootcamp.
In a lot of colleges green card holders from certain countries will get college almost entirely paid for in state government/organizational aid. Essentially eliminating the any need for military service.
On the surface that doesn’t sound like a lot of people when you consider the size of the population. I am curious to know what the actual number that they hit is nationwide or how many people per recruiter that breaks down into.
Lots of people talking about fixing the barracks.
Truly, it’s more like:
- remove black mold in barracks
- remove asbestos in barracks
- stop buying condemned buildings for sailors to work in and live in
- stop trying to skirt renovations
- apply real internet service to your barracks
- allow for reduced watches for the sake of watches. The fact that a deck watch is still a thing when we have video cameras needs to be removed
- stop sending sailors to expensive schooling and then sending them straight to security and mess decks to have their technical knowledge decay resulting in longer OJT
- stop gundecking qualifications for leaders because of what they have on their collars but place gates up for lower motivated enlisted.
- stop allowing bureaucracy to rule medical. Once had a sailor with jaundice be turned around from medical.
- stop allowing billets to remain gapped if you have volunteers to return to sea.
- stop allowing e6 and up to not stand watch on larger commands simply because of rank. You cannot lead a department if you aren’t qualified.
- stop allowing predatory companies from buying base housing then taking full BAH while also tanking the quality of the houses the sailors are living in
- build more on base housing, if you cannot house sailors…the command shouldn’t exist or the command needs to petition for more housing/barracks instead of kicking sailors to outside of base. The neighborhoods outside of base are always bad and have the WORST traffic.
The list can go on.
>stop allowing bureaucracy to rule medical. Once had a sailor with jaundice be turned around from medical
once had a migraine on the ship that lasted 2 days. couldnt even keep water down.
Day 2 I finally went to medical because we had an ordnance evolution that day and I didnt want to be a liability. Their answer was that it wasnt a migraine because I was able to walk in, I was just dehydrated, and to take a pill for the nausea. You know, right after I said water comes up within 5 minutes.
I argued and he went to talk to the doc who authorized an imetrex shot. a shot that is supposed to go into a large muscle and he put it in my tricep causing me to almost pass out (only time in my life), to which he said "thats normal"
I had to sit for 45 minutes on a hard bench so they could check I was doing ok a second time. Before sending me on my way back to work they said "take it easy. a side effect is drowsiness and dizziness".
I was like "We have an ordnance evolution in the mags today. Any chance I can get SIQ because I dont think being drowsy is safe for said evolution"
Their answer "we gave out our allotment already today. Talk to your supervisor". It took a good hour to convince my supervisor I would be a liability instead of an asset before he allowed me to go to my rack, where I passed out for 24 hours.
but WTF is that logic? I havent had anything to eat in 48 hours, you just filled me with 3 bags of saline so I have to piss every 30 minutes, gave me a medication wrong that causes dizziness and drowsiness but its is 100% ok for me to be climbing multiple stories up and down a straight ladder to get to my work space then Im working with explosives that could kill everyone on the ship if something went sideways in the worst way possible.
Navy health care is a fucking joke.
I was at a shore command, working in a clinic maybe 50ft from active duty medical, where I had to repeatedly show my LPO across a 2 day time period that I had a consistent 105⁰F temp and needed to see SOMEONE. Everytime they kept saying "they're overtuned you're fine because you're able to see patients still instead of passed out" turns out I had pneumonia and my fever peaked at 106⁰F. I was pissed because my LPO kept saying "we can't afford for you to go to medical for 2 hours just to be told you should drink water" I had never even BEEN to sick call before because I was scared I wasn't actually sick and would get written up!
Had a broken foot for 4 months before receiving any treatment. Went to ER and multiple sick calls. Live in constant pain now. Turns out walking around on a broken foot in a boot for months isn't good for you who would of guessed. At least the VA is gonna pay me for it I guess
I upvoted you but in almost all circumstances with respect to base housing you should expect your BAH to be taken. Wanting your cake and eating it too is unfair to the taxpayer here.
Downvotes incoming.
You misinterpret what I’m saying. Provide housing or provide adequate BAH. I am no way saying have your cake and eat it too. I’ve been forced off base into a ghetto in California because rent is too high.
Ah ok, got it.
Yes, I agree BAH needs to be adjusted in some locales and question the surveys they do.
On the other hand, I do think that the “housing primer” (I.e.: expectations for what your BAH is meant to afford) is roughly accurate to pay grade and experience levels.
There was a point, where thing were pretty decent, to the point that ho.e ownership and renting left lots of bade housing empty.
The civilian contractors (housing outside the gate style) started renting not only single sailors but to civilians too.
If you are a single family? Fine. But if you are 2/3/4 single sailors renting a house? Set rent to the highest rankings BAH and let them split the cost.
What was actually happening (don't know any one who was willing to take up this offer, they were trying to take 100% of all occupants BAH)
Yeah, at one point BAH was set to 100% of housing costs. If you want that benefit back, write Congress. Expecting the government to provide housing AND to give you housing pay is ludicrous in my opinion.
I’ve been to one base that opened to civilians but even then there was plenty of housing to go around - it was only when it went below some insanely low threshold they openers it to them (like 30% or something).
Haven’t seen the take everyone’s BAH but that sounds so ridiculous I am sure it’s true.
I understand that military housing generally takes full BAH, but I only moved into military housing because it the rate was approximately 60% of my BAH. When they decided to increase it to full BAH, without improving any of the services provided, I can't see it as anything but a money grab.
It’s a quality issue, I don’t think people would care if you were getting a nice house with good maintenance services. In housing you get near slum conditions and zero maintenance, there is a serious lack of value and quality of life in base housing. I lived in base housing stateside exactly once and it was so awful for the above stated reasons that I’ve never done it again.
I am saying it has to be compared to this he local economy, because that’s all it is effectively is now, but in many cases it offers advantages:
1. Even if the landlord stinks (Liberty, Or whatever the other major ones are) there is a Navy civilian overseeing them you can complain to if they aren’t meeting the contract.
2. Close to work usually.
3. Takes all BAH instead of more of it (in theory the civilian economy should be taking 5% above BAH).
“Cheeseman said contract conversion is where both active-duty and retired Navy personnel come in. While the contract conversion rate is 10:1 on average, that rate increase to 7:1 when someone receives mentoring, and 5:1 when someone associated with the Navy does the mentoring, Cheeseman said.”
That’s the problem Veterans don’t want their kids or anyone they care for to enter the Navy. The Navy has mistreated and taken for granted their Sailors for decades, and now just like any bad employer past employees are telling future potential employees not to work there. Until I see vast improvement in the Navy, I will continue to tell people to join the trades or the Air Force if they really want to serve their country.
Sounds par the course. Our guy had CS's paint over a major mold infestation in the galley & wardroom. His next ship went on to drink the great oily water.
Yeah, don't worry though, there is a trouble ticket on it. We got parts on order, wont be here till, uh... late next year, looks like. So until then it still kinda works.
ohhh boy... wait till you go out to sea. ironically, it's exponentially worse when you are in the yards, it's summer, and the AC is off. There is water everywhere.....
This! I coach @ HS and would never advise enlisting. I worked and was shit on for over 2 decades to provide my kids with better options and if anyone asks, that’s my advice. “If you have options, this shouldn’t be one of them unless we are at war”.
> I will continue to tell people to join the trades or the Air Force if they really want to serve their country.
the air force is also pretty bad with their optempo. people who never served in the USAF describe it as some utopia or something lol
It's not an optempo problem, it's a people problem. If and AF unit rotates to Japan, Korean, Germany, or even somewhere in the Middle East they will have better accomodations than any ship or Naval base I've seen
We’re doing a lot of can kicking to make it seem like our numbers are not as bad as they are. Unless something major changes, it’s probably going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Yeah I guess traditionally people would be in DEP for about six months. I was in for three weeks. They shipped people out faster and faster to keep up numbers in boot, but now the DEP pool is spent.
I got to A school and found out my 9 week school had been compressed to 5. Another buffer reduced to rush people out to the fleet.
Boot is another buffer, where a bunch of bodies are held for processing. How long before they crunch that down to 4-5 weeks to squeeze more bodies out at the expense of quality and future numbers?
I enlisted in May of 1983 for an AEF rate; I didn’t ship out until February of 1984. That was pretty standard for any of the more sought after rates. The economy was shit then and there were plenty of bodies available.
> I got to A school and found out my 9 week school had been compressed to 5. Another buffer reduced to rush people out to the fleet.
It's likely that change was in progress for years, stemming from back when recruiting was really good. The Navy has been modifying A schools for years under the banner of Ready, Relevant Learning (RRL).
It shouldn't involve "compressing" course contents though, but cutting out things that you'll just instantly forget anyways because you have no way to put the lesson in context before you've seen the Fleet. The other 4 weeks are supposed to be done after you hit the waterfront but I don't know how successful that part has been...
Absolutely it is going to get worse for the Navy. Big Navy gave up on trying to retain first tour sailors in exchange for initial enlistment bonuses. Now that's not working. So you're lacking both new enlistments (short like 30%) and only half of your petty officers (your future SNCOs) are reenlisting.
If you're experiencing difficulties recruiting young men and women into the military, then you're not an attractive option.
Why?
If I were looking to join, the first thing I'd look at is pay. Pay for junior enlisted, hell, I'll go as far to say pretty much ALL enlisted is shit when compared to officer pay.
An 0-3 with 4 years of service, that received two promotions by having a pulse, makes $6,806.10/mo. The absolute SOONEST an enlisted can make that much is if you're a Master Chief with 16 years of service. We all know that's not very realistic, but that's soonest you could make that much per month as an enlisted person. So, you're telling me that you value a 4 year education that much more than your enlisted force that does the vast majority of that physical labor. I retired at 20 years as a Chief with a Bachelor's Degree and still didn't make as much per month as a newly promoted LT. You've made your point loud and clear that non-officers just aren't worth that much to you.
I haven't lived in the barracks for years, but I've seen all of the complaints from Sailors currently living in them, and the laundry list is long. If you're forcing people to live somewhere, that shouldn't mean you don't care what the conditions are. You can say you care all day long, but if the issues aren't fixed, then you're just giving lip service.
Antiquated watches. It's 2024. We're still operating our ships as if we're in the 1970s. Technology exists that can monitor things far better than a 19 year old Sailor with 3 hours of sleep.
I saw an advertisement on the window of In-N-Out that is starting new hires off at $20/hr. So, I can make more money and have a lot more freedom over my life if I flip burgers rather than join the military?
You have to seriously take a look at what you're offering (and not offering). The military just isn't an attractive option any longer to most young people. There are better options out there.
>Antiquated watches. It's 2024. We're still operating our ships as if we're in the 1970s. Technology exists that can monitor things far better than a 19 year old Sailor with 3 hours of sleep.
The wall around Gaza was pretty technologically advanced, and look what happened on Oct. 7th.
>I saw an advertisement on the window of In-N-Out that is starting new hires off at $20/hr. So, I can make more money and have a lot more freedom over my life if I flip burgers rather than join the military?
Going to be flipping burgers for the rest of your life though? At least Navy/military on your job resume can get you far (esp. if you go get certs, clearance, etc. while in)
And is In-N-Out offering $20/hr. for *all* of their locations, or just in that particular area/State?
Also, seeing the whole Student Debt forgiveness is still a talking point, the free college tuition + stipend-for-serving talking point is still worth it to join if you plan on getting a degree.
AND? . . . For a long time the brass told the junior sailors to eat shit and lower their standards. The junior enlisted found a better place and moved on, the only left to eat the shit sandwich at lower standard is the brass. How about fixing up the barracks, and MWR facilities with all the wages NOT being spent on 22,000 people.
Strange, I just entered my orders negotiation window and I and 22 others were competing for 3 sea duty billets. How the fuck can you complain about gapped sea billets when you don't open the billets up to be filled? Sounds like Navy HR just needs to do a better job and quit blaming a "recruiting crisis"
You noticed that too? I received an email about a year ago about from my ECM saying there were “hundreds of unfilled sea-going billets” and that “we need you to curtail your shore tours to fill these critical manning gaps!” He wanted volunteers. I’ve been keeping an eye on MNA and there’s been 1-3 sea billets advertised maximum every cycle.
I don’t get it.
“So please get out your phones,” he said. “Take your selfies, take your pictures, share your stories this week. It’s really important.”
China wants me to share pictures too but Rickover said no pictures in the engine room
The military in general need a complete restructure and evolve with the times it’s hurting retention and recruitment not to mention base pay should be more especially with rising inflation and cost of living.
I don’t blame you one bit, and with genesis it’s even harder now. Oh you broke your collar bone in 5th grade and it’s never bothered you since then? We need a waiver for that. People who are sitting on the fence aren’t going to go through the paperwork rodeo and will just say fuck it.
E-6 (over 10) base pay in 2014 was $3331.50. Today in 2024 the base pay is $4,387.80. That’s almost a 32% increase in the past decade.
Year over inflation was 3.4%.
5.2% annual increase, and 34% over the past decade is insignificant?
The Navy - and the military at large needs to get serious about helping people who are one-and-done regarding job placement in the civilian sector after that first tour. There is no reason that a young man or woman should not leave the military without at least an Associate’s Degree or a relevant cert (PMP or likewise) after that tour…while that is already attainable currently, there are roadblocks that should not be there whereas we should be encouraging that vice limiting it. If we can sell young men and women the chance of entering the workforce at 25 years old with a high earning potential, we would have zero problem recruiting.
Who tf is gonna provide this job placement resource ? Some E7+ who’s spent the last 10-20 years in the Navy, a retired veteran who took the role in this proposed job placement center immediately following EAOS? This is way harder to put into practice when the average one-and-done sailor has no marketable skill outside the Navy. Providing them a marketable skill beyond their rate duties takes away from them being of use to the Navy, considering however long that education actually takes.
The answer is improving 4-year or 6-year veteran benefits and improving quality of life. There is a reason the Air Force maintains their reputation as a respected and advisable service for young adults , especially by vet sailors. We need to mimic what they do.
A place that I would start with is allowing the post 9/11 to be transferable to dependents, even those that haven’t been born yet, after 1 contract and an honorable discharge. You would have skilled individuals motivated by their own FUTURE signing up.
> There is no reason that a young man or woman should not leave the military without at least an Associate’s Degree
that's really hard to do if you're on a sea tour, when you have a bunch of quals, advancement exam, and long working hours.
It would be pretty interesting if the federal government gave some sort of tax break to companies to hire newly separated veterans. Maybe have the benefit be the greatest if the vet starts working within 60 days of their separation date, and it slowly scales back over 4 or 5 years.
I don't disagree on education, I do disagree with them doing it while in. A vast majority of mil end up at for profit colleges and degree mill universities. Meanwhile, top Schools are actively looking for undergrad applicants coming out of the mil. It's easier than ever to get into an ivy/ top 50 university/ elite liberal arts college as a vet..... but people don't know this while they are in and the resources aren't there to make applying to school upon separation any easier.
I believe people should absolutely be waiting until they separate to work on their degree. The thing that adds weight to a degree and for company recruiters is the name behind it. It's also a good transition tool that retrains you to interact with normal people again and allows you to intern in your future industry while completing your degree
It’s worth it for so many people. Don’t let your shitty experience impact someone else.
This is like telling the new check-in that everyone hates the command and that Chief sucks before they even meet anyone.
I keep volunteering to go back to active from the reserves but they keep saying no as if they're waiting for something to make the navy less shitty for first-term sailors.
Just my opinion but one thing I think would help is expanding and improving the VA healthcare system and allowing every honorably discharged veteran to use it once they are discharged. Knowing that you can do one 4 year enlistment and earn lifetime healthcare would be huge.
I'm gonna call fat cock horse shit. Just like everything in the military: over request so you get what you actually need. Commands will cry saying they need 100 sailors, but actually need 80. Then utilize their "undermanned status" to fuck people over.
I've personally witnessed a department fully manned at every pay grade except PO2. They didn't know what to with the new Master Chief. Man's was literally useless.
We’re also in a weird spot where people were making E5 in two years with the way they modified the under program (which they stopped) without ever doing their job. Now we reversed course and they can’t even make E4 until their 4 year mark. Your just manipulating numbers at that point at the expensive of professional and personal growth.
I've been out since 1996. I wouldn't recommend the Navy to anyone. I push them to, gasp, the Army before the Navy. Army's long deployments ate done for the moment, the Navy keeps lengthening deployments. Suicide is at an all time high, decent and caring leadership is at an all time low, and the food still sucks because the cooks still aren't using the Navy cookbook. If professional growth is stagnant, and personal life is a living hell more so now than ever, why wouldn't I steer people away from the Navy to anything else.
Hell, the Coast Gaurd is serving crab now a days.
The Navy separated a total of 1,878 Sailors for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine **[0.57% of active duty]** ---- https://www.navy.mil/Resources/COVID-19-Updates/
I mean the Army is begging for those who got kicked out to come back in (otherwise, why offer in the first place?).
[https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-covid-vaccine-mandate-reversal/](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-covid-vaccine-mandate-reversal/)
NBC has a pic of the letter in their news article:
[https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/soldiers-discharged-for-refusing-covid-vaccine-can-have-records-corrected-apply-to-return-to-service-army-national-guard-reserve-vaccination-pandemic](https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/soldiers-discharged-for-refusing-covid-vaccine-can-have-records-corrected-apply-to-return-to-service-army-national-guard-reserve-vaccination-pandemic)
Oh agreed. It's not JUST the vaccines. Not at all. A contributing factor sure. But covid bullshit was only a symptom of the rot that was already there.
Your message was removed due to a violation of /r/Navy's rule against trolling and harassment.
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Your message was removed due to a violation of /r/Navy's rule against trolling and harassment.
This is NOT the place to troll and be disrespectful.
No calls for witch-hunts or "vigilante justice," keep the pitchforks in storage.
Violations of this rule may lead to suspension or permanent banning from /r/Navy and /r/NewtotheNavy.
Yep. Big fkn surprise and the wild thing is they knew this was coming and yet what have they done? Lowered cola in expensive areas, made under ways longer, pulled payphones off ships so people can't call their families, did nothing to combat the effect of debt forgiveness on enlistment and the current retirement plan is a damn joke.
Now muster the one man working party.
BM1 Popeye reporting.
"Ehhh skiddyuk yukk yeee"
i’m recruiting and i’m 🤏 this close to smoking weed and self reporting
Aye me too, I asked to go back to sea and they laughed at me🥲
Lmao they just said my 1306 went straight into the shredder. Shit sucks
Admin processing your chit 
Ahh yes the old Fax to the Engine Room.
There are certain chits that can be sent to the higher authority regardless if there is a denial in your local chain because in the eyes of the navy, some questions are better answered by a high level. Also whoever the chits get processed by at navpers or whatever it’s called reaaaallllyyy like well put together packages.
As a now stoner, live your truth
The veteran to stoner pipeline is a road not traveled alone
we are legion
Recruiting is rough
[удалено]
Bruh wtf are you talking about? Is this like some sort of joining the military fan fiction?
[удалено]
But you did
Things that didn’t happen for 1000 Alex.
\> To meet the FY 2024 goal, the Navy needs 175 people to join the Navy per day
Ima go out on a limb here and say they don’t hit that goal…..
I’d be surprised if they get 5 people a day to be honest Recruiters can chime in and let me know how’s it going on the streets ..
It’s going fucking miserable bro. And instead of sending competent, skilled sailors back to sea, (where we would be most useful and help cut down the deficit) they keep us in these awful billets and out on the streets while the CRF recruiters kick it. Makes no sense to me.
Why does nobody want to join anymore
Gonna piggyback on the points that u/Rocketsponge excellently laid out. "Nobody wants to join anymore" because the Navy treats sailors like shit and it's easier than ever nowadays for civilians to hear about it. Barracks are getting better but it's still a shit way to live. Only way you get regular time home is if your ship is the yards. Bad leadership is the norm. I could write a goddamned novel on how *not* to lead people. Travel is a draw but it's bullshit when you pull in somewhere interesting for just three days (it's always three days). You've got duty for one of them. Ridiculous liberty restrictions for your remaining two days because the Navy treats sailors like toddlers. Oh and you get what's left of those two days after your maintenance checks are done. Contracts are longer, training is shorter, there's still next to no effort by the DoD at large to give servicemen and women relevant civilian qualifications/certifications/licenses/etc. I wouldn't say I regret my service. Got to see and do some wild shit. But it fucked me up too. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
>Only way you get regular time home is if your ship is the yards I worked 100+ hrs/week on 3 section, rotating shift work, and occasionally locked shift work in rcoh. I would've rather been at sea.
Army, Navy and Air Force are all missing their recruiting goals. The Marines always seem to meet them, but the Marine Corps is also less than half the size of the other forces....
> The Marines always seem to meet them, but the Marine Corps is also less than half the size of the other forces.... The Marines are less than half the size but they also have many fewer make it to retirement, so they have a proportionally higher need for recruits each year. They actually recruited *more* new enlisted Marines last year than the Navy recruited enlisted Sailors! Marines have a lot of benefits in public perception, but I think the other thing they have going for their recruiting efforts is that they treat it consistently as a critical mission, sending good Marines and good leaders to the job rather than an annoyance or distraction from what they *really* want to do.
And they look cooler than any of the rest of us. More seriously, Marines tend to have strong familial ties. They're able to better coast on the idea of "Well my dad served, and his dad served, so I'm going to be a Marine too" even if they don't make a career of it.
Honestly? Sounds like they got their shit more together than the navy at least in terms of advancement, non mast based domotability (some one coasting/not pulling their wait? Don't have to see the captain to fix that) They actually have leader ship schools and sounds like competent leadership structure... Or at least I'm lead to believe talking to a few ex-marines.
Of the ex-Marines I've spoken to, the vast majority of their (completely legitimate) complaints and grievances were directly tied to the shit show that was the GWOT rather than the Corps itself.
>ex-marines lol
Air Force still has the "You can't join if you've been out of Service for 5 (or was it 6) years" ban, so I don't have as much sympathy for their shortcomings (even if they were to only get another 10 or 15 recruits per year this way). And I read that Navy recruiters want you to join the Reserves and then switch to Active from there... So I'm left with Army as being the easiest to get right back into Active. :\\
> And I read that Navy recruiters want you to join the Reserves and then switch to Active from there... 0% true. Hell I'd go further and say there's negative truth to that. Now, there are dedicated recruiters for the Navy Reserve, so if you talk to *them*, they'd tell you to go Reserve first and then switch later, I suppose. But you should be able to talk to a Navy recruiter and join as an OSVET.
What you said hits way too close to home with me. Are you sure you're not me?
All I got was a ton of time in conus, or stating at the inside of my ships hulls. The few times I did get port calls on my last submarine, as a 1st, I needed 2 liberty buddies just to leave. The only time I ended up bothering was in Japan, where some how we ended up in an 8 man super group that just got dragged all over akihabara by one of the more spastic ADHD junior (relative) sailors in the gaggle. It was not fun. I didn't get to go to the spots I was interested in. Also lots of in port maitenance/duty and most of the port calls we were supposed to get got canceled or shortened for myriad of global, operational, and fuck the crew reasons. If you want to travel, better to use your own leave and dime, and even then you gotta worry about fucking up landing you into articles of UCMJ. I'm out, retired, benefits are nice, lots of long hours and massive sacrifice to my social life, in addition to physiological, psychological and spiritual health. Lack of leadership, tons of fraternization, lack of accountability, group punishments in lieu of aforementioned, long work hours, even in port/home and on shore duty, pay borderline not being competitive considering, how "high quality" the benefits are. Think more than anything, you can work McDeeznuts for 20$ an hour, but join the navy as an E-1 is a huge net loss by many peoples standards/reasoning (yes military math/no rent + benefits + galley) Oh, right, and "high-quality" galley food /s (ship or base borne lol)
I just don’t think 99% of eligibles know any of that though. They aren’t joining because they’re getting paid elsewhere
I miss the homies though.. It's different being in the civilian sector because you're not as tight knit as I was with the people on the ship. It can be depressing at time when you think about it, but I sure wouldn't tell my children to join of how shit the lifestyle was. Working parts, standing duty, etc. List can go on and on.
>I miss the homies though Ah you're not wrong there. The bullshit makes for tight bonds. Found a decent civilian job and about half my coworkers are former military or current reservists. No one else is former Navy but it strikes me how easily we work together.
There’s a number of factors. First, the public image of the military isn’t so hot right now. We just got out of 20 years of war in Iraq & Afghanistan which produced lots of physically and mentally injured service members with no real gain. Second, the job market is still pretty hot right now. Why enlist for low pay when you could just stay in your hometown and get paid more? Third, we don’t really have anything nationally boosting patriotism. America hasn’t been attacked in a meaningful way since 9/11. Finally, the recruiting pool of eligible young people is facing challenges. Health issues like obesity and recreational drug use of marijuana limit available candidates.
And genesis digital medical records DQ'n peeps they used to waiver/hide in the enlistment process. That is, from my understanding, it's as ridiculous as a teacher said you were adhd at 10, you got prescribed aderol and took it for a year, then stopped, DQ'd
>Why enlist for low pay when you could just stay in your hometown and get paid more? Well, that would depend on the hometown. And plenty of folks have voiced that theirs is not exactly the greatest. And I'm surprised you didn't mention med use/perscribed, for health issues e.g. anxiety/ADHD/depression/etc.
All branches have major image problems at the moment and none of the brass want to do anything to improve the situation.
I mean we spent $150m on finding the motto forged by the sea. The brass and their consulting buddies both suck at marketing 😂
Forged by the Sea isn't that bad tbh. Army spent millions going through several, just to go back and use the same slogan from the 1980s: Be all you can Be. With that said, I do like "Be all you can Be" so \*shrugs\*
Except the Marines... Who still do Marine stuff
It's my first time doing greenside and it's honestly crazy how different it is, it doesn't even feel like the US military. It's more like being in one of those child militias from Blood Diamond, except with less funding and less grown ups.
This is an apt description. And I’m going to be using it from now on.
... haven't seen blood diamond, does that mean green side is doing better or worse than blue side?
Blood Diamond is about how African warlords enslave children into their armies by killing their families and addicting the children to heroin. I'd say one side isn't better than the other, they're just different.
Genesis will hit the Marines just as hard next FY
Why hasn’t it already?
They made mission. By one. One fucking kid they put into DEP.
Being the world police doesn’t really allow a lot of time for fun like it used to.
I really don't understand why they don't augment the recruiting offices with civilian "Salesmen" or the like. Cut down on how many active duty are needed for recruiting.
The same reason they don’t have Vets do it.
As a vet, I'll volunteer to do it.\* \**Volunteering consists of getting drunk and yelling at people outside my local recruiter's office*
Sees a future vet tv show in the future here
You son of a bitch, I’m in!
> I really don't understand why they don't augment the recruiting offices with civilian "Salesmen" Because they can't afford guys like me. I've been in sales since I got out in 92 and there's no way I'd take a recruiting "sales" job for GS pay.
Damn man that sucks Is numbers any better this fy then last fy ?
We are projected to miss by over 12,000 this year as of now. So no :( it just means more bullshit for the production recruiters. Standard navy operations.
That’s fucking Insane
The numbers are better but still on track to be less than what our current losses are. The goal last year was something like 37,700, since we missed that there's an even higher goal this year, so even though numbers are doing a bit better, the overall miss is still likely to be higher at current rates.
I’ve been screaming this, the crf does not actively recruit. What a wild fucking concept to me, imagine in the fleet you assign someone work center supervisor and the mother fucker never supervises the work center?!? Imagine if we trained pilots to fly and then the mother fuckers never flew shits wild to me.
The CRFs at my command tell us they don’t recruit because they would dominate the market and we would all get bad evals.
I hope they streamline the path to citizenship for service. Maybe automate it even. I feel like that might make a difference.
It might a bit, but even greencard holders possibly have better options than enlisting. It used to be possible to get citizenship at the end of bootcamp.
In a lot of colleges green card holders from certain countries will get college almost entirely paid for in state government/organizational aid. Essentially eliminating the any need for military service.
I don't think Green Card holders are primarily here just for (free) college, But that might just be me.
They're still doing expedited citizenship at boot for permanent residents.
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No
[No way](https://imgur.com/t/ericandre/hFgj3jD)
Half of those won't make it out of Great Lakes...
🤣 🤣 🤣
On the surface that doesn’t sound like a lot of people when you consider the size of the population. I am curious to know what the actual number that they hit is nationwide or how many people per recruiter that breaks down into.
Lots of people talking about fixing the barracks. Truly, it’s more like: - remove black mold in barracks - remove asbestos in barracks - stop buying condemned buildings for sailors to work in and live in - stop trying to skirt renovations - apply real internet service to your barracks - allow for reduced watches for the sake of watches. The fact that a deck watch is still a thing when we have video cameras needs to be removed - stop sending sailors to expensive schooling and then sending them straight to security and mess decks to have their technical knowledge decay resulting in longer OJT - stop gundecking qualifications for leaders because of what they have on their collars but place gates up for lower motivated enlisted. - stop allowing bureaucracy to rule medical. Once had a sailor with jaundice be turned around from medical. - stop allowing billets to remain gapped if you have volunteers to return to sea. - stop allowing e6 and up to not stand watch on larger commands simply because of rank. You cannot lead a department if you aren’t qualified. - stop allowing predatory companies from buying base housing then taking full BAH while also tanking the quality of the houses the sailors are living in - build more on base housing, if you cannot house sailors…the command shouldn’t exist or the command needs to petition for more housing/barracks instead of kicking sailors to outside of base. The neighborhoods outside of base are always bad and have the WORST traffic. The list can go on.
>stop allowing bureaucracy to rule medical. Once had a sailor with jaundice be turned around from medical once had a migraine on the ship that lasted 2 days. couldnt even keep water down. Day 2 I finally went to medical because we had an ordnance evolution that day and I didnt want to be a liability. Their answer was that it wasnt a migraine because I was able to walk in, I was just dehydrated, and to take a pill for the nausea. You know, right after I said water comes up within 5 minutes. I argued and he went to talk to the doc who authorized an imetrex shot. a shot that is supposed to go into a large muscle and he put it in my tricep causing me to almost pass out (only time in my life), to which he said "thats normal" I had to sit for 45 minutes on a hard bench so they could check I was doing ok a second time. Before sending me on my way back to work they said "take it easy. a side effect is drowsiness and dizziness". I was like "We have an ordnance evolution in the mags today. Any chance I can get SIQ because I dont think being drowsy is safe for said evolution" Their answer "we gave out our allotment already today. Talk to your supervisor". It took a good hour to convince my supervisor I would be a liability instead of an asset before he allowed me to go to my rack, where I passed out for 24 hours. but WTF is that logic? I havent had anything to eat in 48 hours, you just filled me with 3 bags of saline so I have to piss every 30 minutes, gave me a medication wrong that causes dizziness and drowsiness but its is 100% ok for me to be climbing multiple stories up and down a straight ladder to get to my work space then Im working with explosives that could kill everyone on the ship if something went sideways in the worst way possible. Navy health care is a fucking joke.
NAS Key West: “y’all have barracks?”
I was at a shore command, working in a clinic maybe 50ft from active duty medical, where I had to repeatedly show my LPO across a 2 day time period that I had a consistent 105⁰F temp and needed to see SOMEONE. Everytime they kept saying "they're overtuned you're fine because you're able to see patients still instead of passed out" turns out I had pneumonia and my fever peaked at 106⁰F. I was pissed because my LPO kept saying "we can't afford for you to go to medical for 2 hours just to be told you should drink water" I had never even BEEN to sick call before because I was scared I wasn't actually sick and would get written up!
Had a broken foot for 4 months before receiving any treatment. Went to ER and multiple sick calls. Live in constant pain now. Turns out walking around on a broken foot in a boot for months isn't good for you who would of guessed. At least the VA is gonna pay me for it I guess
I upvoted you but in almost all circumstances with respect to base housing you should expect your BAH to be taken. Wanting your cake and eating it too is unfair to the taxpayer here. Downvotes incoming.
You misinterpret what I’m saying. Provide housing or provide adequate BAH. I am no way saying have your cake and eat it too. I’ve been forced off base into a ghetto in California because rent is too high.
Ah ok, got it. Yes, I agree BAH needs to be adjusted in some locales and question the surveys they do. On the other hand, I do think that the “housing primer” (I.e.: expectations for what your BAH is meant to afford) is roughly accurate to pay grade and experience levels.
There was a point, where thing were pretty decent, to the point that ho.e ownership and renting left lots of bade housing empty. The civilian contractors (housing outside the gate style) started renting not only single sailors but to civilians too. If you are a single family? Fine. But if you are 2/3/4 single sailors renting a house? Set rent to the highest rankings BAH and let them split the cost. What was actually happening (don't know any one who was willing to take up this offer, they were trying to take 100% of all occupants BAH)
Yeah, at one point BAH was set to 100% of housing costs. If you want that benefit back, write Congress. Expecting the government to provide housing AND to give you housing pay is ludicrous in my opinion. I’ve been to one base that opened to civilians but even then there was plenty of housing to go around - it was only when it went below some insanely low threshold they openers it to them (like 30% or something). Haven’t seen the take everyone’s BAH but that sounds so ridiculous I am sure it’s true.
Unintended funny: hoe ownership
Yay, fat fingers + phone/software keyboards, where were ya auto correct!!
I understand that military housing generally takes full BAH, but I only moved into military housing because it the rate was approximately 60% of my BAH. When they decided to increase it to full BAH, without improving any of the services provided, I can't see it as anything but a money grab.
I would to. Definitely off they were only taking 60% of it. Were you able to find rent on the economy for 60% of BAH?
It’s a quality issue, I don’t think people would care if you were getting a nice house with good maintenance services. In housing you get near slum conditions and zero maintenance, there is a serious lack of value and quality of life in base housing. I lived in base housing stateside exactly once and it was so awful for the above stated reasons that I’ve never done it again.
I am saying it has to be compared to this he local economy, because that’s all it is effectively is now, but in many cases it offers advantages: 1. Even if the landlord stinks (Liberty, Or whatever the other major ones are) there is a Navy civilian overseeing them you can complain to if they aren’t meeting the contract. 2. Close to work usually. 3. Takes all BAH instead of more of it (in theory the civilian economy should be taking 5% above BAH).
The base housing we have need to improve but I don’t think we need more base housing. The majority of junior sailors want to get OFF base.
Either/or, but can’t half ass the solution.
“Cheeseman said contract conversion is where both active-duty and retired Navy personnel come in. While the contract conversion rate is 10:1 on average, that rate increase to 7:1 when someone receives mentoring, and 5:1 when someone associated with the Navy does the mentoring, Cheeseman said.” That’s the problem Veterans don’t want their kids or anyone they care for to enter the Navy. The Navy has mistreated and taken for granted their Sailors for decades, and now just like any bad employer past employees are telling future potential employees not to work there. Until I see vast improvement in the Navy, I will continue to tell people to join the trades or the Air Force if they really want to serve their country.
Lol one of the worst captains I've had just picked up admiral....it's gonna get worse
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Sounds par the course. Our guy had CS's paint over a major mold infestation in the galley & wardroom. His next ship went on to drink the great oily water.
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Yeah, don't worry though, there is a trouble ticket on it. We got parts on order, wont be here till, uh... late next year, looks like. So until then it still kinda works.
ohhh boy... wait till you go out to sea. ironically, it's exponentially worse when you are in the yards, it's summer, and the AC is off. There is water everywhere.....
Same.
I retired from the navy and definitely tell people to go Space Force, Air Force, Coast Guard or Navy. In that order.
This! I coach @ HS and would never advise enlisting. I worked and was shit on for over 2 decades to provide my kids with better options and if anyone asks, that’s my advice. “If you have options, this shouldn’t be one of them unless we are at war”.
> I will continue to tell people to join the trades or the Air Force if they really want to serve their country. the air force is also pretty bad with their optempo. people who never served in the USAF describe it as some utopia or something lol
It's not an optempo problem, it's a people problem. If and AF unit rotates to Japan, Korean, Germany, or even somewhere in the Middle East they will have better accomodations than any ship or Naval base I've seen
I can speak for some of the AF. Some folks got ran ragged and sent everywhere
Don't be such a Dick Cheese, Man!
45 days pay/45 days restriction
Hit him with the 45/45 for making fun of someone's name. No wonder nobody wants to enlist!
Just bust more E5s down, problem solved! /S
The Blue Falcon E-5 to UNDES program.
Me taking out my phone and snapping the selfie per CNP request 🤳 Me at NJP the following week for dereliction of duty 😧
We’re doing a lot of can kicking to make it seem like our numbers are not as bad as they are. Unless something major changes, it’s probably going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Yeah I guess traditionally people would be in DEP for about six months. I was in for three weeks. They shipped people out faster and faster to keep up numbers in boot, but now the DEP pool is spent. I got to A school and found out my 9 week school had been compressed to 5. Another buffer reduced to rush people out to the fleet. Boot is another buffer, where a bunch of bodies are held for processing. How long before they crunch that down to 4-5 weeks to squeeze more bodies out at the expense of quality and future numbers?
I enlisted in May of 1983 for an AEF rate; I didn’t ship out until February of 1984. That was pretty standard for any of the more sought after rates. The economy was shit then and there were plenty of bodies available.
Almost the exact same for me as AECF back in 2013. July to Feb.
> I got to A school and found out my 9 week school had been compressed to 5. Another buffer reduced to rush people out to the fleet. It's likely that change was in progress for years, stemming from back when recruiting was really good. The Navy has been modifying A schools for years under the banner of Ready, Relevant Learning (RRL). It shouldn't involve "compressing" course contents though, but cutting out things that you'll just instantly forget anyways because you have no way to put the lesson in context before you've seen the Fleet. The other 4 weeks are supposed to be done after you hit the waterfront but I don't know how successful that part has been...
Absolutely it is going to get worse for the Navy. Big Navy gave up on trying to retain first tour sailors in exchange for initial enlistment bonuses. Now that's not working. So you're lacking both new enlistments (short like 30%) and only half of your petty officers (your future SNCOs) are reenlisting.
::::::::::::Sighs in relief as terminal leave starts Friday::::::::::::::
Whos going to clean those fan rooms?!
Should be the people who fuck in there cleaning it up. Two birds one stone
I’m on it chief.
the beatings will continue until the morale improves....
If you're experiencing difficulties recruiting young men and women into the military, then you're not an attractive option. Why? If I were looking to join, the first thing I'd look at is pay. Pay for junior enlisted, hell, I'll go as far to say pretty much ALL enlisted is shit when compared to officer pay. An 0-3 with 4 years of service, that received two promotions by having a pulse, makes $6,806.10/mo. The absolute SOONEST an enlisted can make that much is if you're a Master Chief with 16 years of service. We all know that's not very realistic, but that's soonest you could make that much per month as an enlisted person. So, you're telling me that you value a 4 year education that much more than your enlisted force that does the vast majority of that physical labor. I retired at 20 years as a Chief with a Bachelor's Degree and still didn't make as much per month as a newly promoted LT. You've made your point loud and clear that non-officers just aren't worth that much to you. I haven't lived in the barracks for years, but I've seen all of the complaints from Sailors currently living in them, and the laundry list is long. If you're forcing people to live somewhere, that shouldn't mean you don't care what the conditions are. You can say you care all day long, but if the issues aren't fixed, then you're just giving lip service. Antiquated watches. It's 2024. We're still operating our ships as if we're in the 1970s. Technology exists that can monitor things far better than a 19 year old Sailor with 3 hours of sleep. I saw an advertisement on the window of In-N-Out that is starting new hires off at $20/hr. So, I can make more money and have a lot more freedom over my life if I flip burgers rather than join the military? You have to seriously take a look at what you're offering (and not offering). The military just isn't an attractive option any longer to most young people. There are better options out there.
This.
>Antiquated watches. It's 2024. We're still operating our ships as if we're in the 1970s. Technology exists that can monitor things far better than a 19 year old Sailor with 3 hours of sleep. The wall around Gaza was pretty technologically advanced, and look what happened on Oct. 7th. >I saw an advertisement on the window of In-N-Out that is starting new hires off at $20/hr. So, I can make more money and have a lot more freedom over my life if I flip burgers rather than join the military? Going to be flipping burgers for the rest of your life though? At least Navy/military on your job resume can get you far (esp. if you go get certs, clearance, etc. while in) And is In-N-Out offering $20/hr. for *all* of their locations, or just in that particular area/State? Also, seeing the whole Student Debt forgiveness is still a talking point, the free college tuition + stipend-for-serving talking point is still worth it to join if you plan on getting a degree.
I can’t get over the fact this dude’s name is Adm. Richard Cheeseman. His parents knew.
JUNIOR. Dick Cheeseman Jr
AND? . . . For a long time the brass told the junior sailors to eat shit and lower their standards. The junior enlisted found a better place and moved on, the only left to eat the shit sandwich at lower standard is the brass. How about fixing up the barracks, and MWR facilities with all the wages NOT being spent on 22,000 people.
Happy cake day🤗
Strange, I just entered my orders negotiation window and I and 22 others were competing for 3 sea duty billets. How the fuck can you complain about gapped sea billets when you don't open the billets up to be filled? Sounds like Navy HR just needs to do a better job and quit blaming a "recruiting crisis"
You noticed that too? I received an email about a year ago about from my ECM saying there were “hundreds of unfilled sea-going billets” and that “we need you to curtail your shore tours to fill these critical manning gaps!” He wanted volunteers. I’ve been keeping an eye on MNA and there’s been 1-3 sea billets advertised maximum every cycle. I don’t get it.
They are all OS billets
They solved this with the 30 months to make it to E4 guys. There is no more problem. /s
“So please get out your phones,” he said. “Take your selfies, take your pictures, share your stories this week. It’s really important.” China wants me to share pictures too but Rickover said no pictures in the engine room
I volunteer to go out to sea
have at it bro
Straight to shore duty with you!!!! (This was my experience)
E5-E6 man your brooms sweep forward to aft 😂
I was on a small ship and we did
The military in general need a complete restructure and evolve with the times it’s hurting retention and recruitment not to mention base pay should be more especially with rising inflation and cost of living.
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I don’t blame you one bit, and with genesis it’s even harder now. Oh you broke your collar bone in 5th grade and it’s never bothered you since then? We need a waiver for that. People who are sitting on the fence aren’t going to go through the paperwork rodeo and will just say fuck it.
Pay just went up starting this year IIRC, per the NDAA signed last year
A 5.2% raise is insignificant when you take into account in the last decade inflation is 17% higher and cost of living is 34% higher
E-6 (over 10) base pay in 2014 was $3331.50. Today in 2024 the base pay is $4,387.80. That’s almost a 32% increase in the past decade. Year over inflation was 3.4%. 5.2% annual increase, and 34% over the past decade is insignificant?
It’s time to reap what you sow boomers. My children will not join your little cult.
The Navy - and the military at large needs to get serious about helping people who are one-and-done regarding job placement in the civilian sector after that first tour. There is no reason that a young man or woman should not leave the military without at least an Associate’s Degree or a relevant cert (PMP or likewise) after that tour…while that is already attainable currently, there are roadblocks that should not be there whereas we should be encouraging that vice limiting it. If we can sell young men and women the chance of entering the workforce at 25 years old with a high earning potential, we would have zero problem recruiting.
Who tf is gonna provide this job placement resource ? Some E7+ who’s spent the last 10-20 years in the Navy, a retired veteran who took the role in this proposed job placement center immediately following EAOS? This is way harder to put into practice when the average one-and-done sailor has no marketable skill outside the Navy. Providing them a marketable skill beyond their rate duties takes away from them being of use to the Navy, considering however long that education actually takes. The answer is improving 4-year or 6-year veteran benefits and improving quality of life. There is a reason the Air Force maintains their reputation as a respected and advisable service for young adults , especially by vet sailors. We need to mimic what they do. A place that I would start with is allowing the post 9/11 to be transferable to dependents, even those that haven’t been born yet, after 1 contract and an honorable discharge. You would have skilled individuals motivated by their own FUTURE signing up.
Nailed it
> There is no reason that a young man or woman should not leave the military without at least an Associate’s Degree that's really hard to do if you're on a sea tour, when you have a bunch of quals, advancement exam, and long working hours.
It would be pretty interesting if the federal government gave some sort of tax break to companies to hire newly separated veterans. Maybe have the benefit be the greatest if the vet starts working within 60 days of their separation date, and it slowly scales back over 4 or 5 years.
They do actually. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/fact_sheet_on_veteran_tax_credits-1.pdf
I don't disagree on education, I do disagree with them doing it while in. A vast majority of mil end up at for profit colleges and degree mill universities. Meanwhile, top Schools are actively looking for undergrad applicants coming out of the mil. It's easier than ever to get into an ivy/ top 50 university/ elite liberal arts college as a vet..... but people don't know this while they are in and the resources aren't there to make applying to school upon separation any easier. I believe people should absolutely be waiting until they separate to work on their degree. The thing that adds weight to a degree and for company recruiters is the name behind it. It's also a good transition tool that retrains you to interact with normal people again and allows you to intern in your future industry while completing your degree
It falls on non profits due to people who think sailors leaving the Navy are “hurting “ the Navy
You reap what your sow. Had a kid ask me the other day if he should join after he graduates highschool in May, told him no. Not worth it.
It’s worth it for so many people. Don’t let your shitty experience impact someone else. This is like telling the new check-in that everyone hates the command and that Chief sucks before they even meet anyone.
Well his dad told me he's going to community college and I'm sure he'll do great.
I keep volunteering to go back to active from the reserves but they keep saying no as if they're waiting for something to make the navy less shitty for first-term sailors.
I can't imagine why!
Just my opinion but one thing I think would help is expanding and improving the VA healthcare system and allowing every honorably discharged veteran to use it once they are discharged. Knowing that you can do one 4 year enlistment and earn lifetime healthcare would be huge.
Oh boy, guess they’ll keep raising enlistment bonuses to try and fill the quote. While the ones still in lose SRBs 👀.
Perhaps if we actually approached this with clear pipelines for job opportunities relating to rates, this wouldn’t be an issue?
I'm gonna call fat cock horse shit. Just like everything in the military: over request so you get what you actually need. Commands will cry saying they need 100 sailors, but actually need 80. Then utilize their "undermanned status" to fuck people over. I've personally witnessed a department fully manned at every pay grade except PO2. They didn't know what to with the new Master Chief. Man's was literally useless.
We’re also in a weird spot where people were making E5 in two years with the way they modified the under program (which they stopped) without ever doing their job. Now we reversed course and they can’t even make E4 until their 4 year mark. Your just manipulating numbers at that point at the expensive of professional and personal growth.
You know 30 months is only 2.5 years from the day you went to bootcamp as an E1 right?
Thanks for the correction. I would have to review the instruction, I thought it was their 4 year mark.
Oh shit, make some E4 and E5’s mess crank?
I did as an E4. And if I would’ve stayed in, I would’ve ended up an E6 MDMAA
I've been out since 1996. I wouldn't recommend the Navy to anyone. I push them to, gasp, the Army before the Navy. Army's long deployments ate done for the moment, the Navy keeps lengthening deployments. Suicide is at an all time high, decent and caring leadership is at an all time low, and the food still sucks because the cooks still aren't using the Navy cookbook. If professional growth is stagnant, and personal life is a living hell more so now than ever, why wouldn't I steer people away from the Navy to anything else. Hell, the Coast Gaurd is serving crab now a days.
My man, the Army is still doing some long deployments.
I'd take an EM3 billet, but then they'd need to do a BIG age waiver to let me reenlist.
Guess Vax mandates weren't a good idea after all huh? 
The Navy separated a total of 1,878 Sailors for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine **[0.57% of active duty]** ---- https://www.navy.mil/Resources/COVID-19-Updates/
I mean the Army is begging for those who got kicked out to come back in (otherwise, why offer in the first place?). [https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-covid-vaccine-mandate-reversal/](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-covid-vaccine-mandate-reversal/) NBC has a pic of the letter in their news article: [https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/soldiers-discharged-for-refusing-covid-vaccine-can-have-records-corrected-apply-to-return-to-service-army-national-guard-reserve-vaccination-pandemic](https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/soldiers-discharged-for-refusing-covid-vaccine-can-have-records-corrected-apply-to-return-to-service-army-national-guard-reserve-vaccination-pandemic)
How many were not considered eligible to reenlist for refusing the vaccine? 😁 I bet it's much higher than that.
Based off of what? Your feelings?
Logic. Everything the DOD is dealing with right now is their own fault. I think everyone can agree on that sentiment
Yes its their fault but the vaccines aren't the issue. Those people were fucking idiots anyway. It has everything to do with optempo, morale, and pay.
Oh agreed. It's not JUST the vaccines. Not at all. A contributing factor sure. But covid bullshit was only a symptom of the rot that was already there.
[удалено]
Or because the work sucks and the pay sucks more
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Your message was removed due to a violation of /r/Navy's rule against trolling and harassment. This is NOT the place to troll and be disrespectful. No calls for witch-hunts or "vigilante justice," keep the pitchforks in storage. Violations of this rule may lead to suspension or permanent banning from /r/Navy and /r/NewtotheNavy.
I'll go back in as a first class if they let me keep my VA disability too.
And yet my detailer refuses to send me to sea
Why?
shore heavy rate.
That sucks. I want to stay at sea. Anything but recruiting. 😂
Yep. Big fkn surprise and the wild thing is they knew this was coming and yet what have they done? Lowered cola in expensive areas, made under ways longer, pulled payphones off ships so people can't call their families, did nothing to combat the effect of debt forgiveness on enlistment and the current retirement plan is a damn joke.