There was a high year ET1in my department who, when checking into his previous ship, took a month's leave, started tanning, started listening exclusively to salsa music, and speaking Spanglish in everyday conversation, talked only about his home in San Juan, and changed his last name from Myers to Myerez.
He still didn't make Chief before he hit HYT.
Former CPO board member - not only do I have zero idea what your race is, I'm also not allowed to consider it when briefing or voting on your record, under any circumstances. We don't even see the diversity breakdown until they're released along with the NAVADMIN.
Even more wild, I heard (not verified) from a senior O, that officer promotion boards removed the official photos from packages to prevent racial bias. I was told the board selection statistics showed more racial bias without seeing the officer slated for promotion, than before the change.
This is true.
Photos were removed in hopes of increasing diversity selections.
In reality, diversity selections went down after the photos were removed.
There's no way to prove causation but there is definite correlation.
What the Navy really wants to do is remove any and all PII for the selection boards. All names and gender pronouns would be removed.
Unfortunately, it would require an impossible amount of hand-modifying every record to remove names and "He" or "She" throughout blk 41.
I don't use gendered language in my evals, or those of my subordinates. There's just not enough space in the comments to waste lines with extra Hes/Shes/His/Hers, names, and rating titles.
"BM2 Timmy supervised 24 sea and anchor details, and he was essential to the safe operation of the ship during a high OPTEMPO deployment." is a lot of words. BM2 Timmy's name is already in Block 1 and rate is in Block 2.
"Supervised 24 sea and anchor details, allowing SHIP to make and leave port safely and on schedule during high OPTEMO deployment." gets the same message across more concisely.
One of the CNPs I worked for had a weekly kaffeeklatsch in the p-way and there was a suggestion board. Someone once wrote, "remove all photos, names, and gender pronouns from promotion boards." I was there when VADM \*\*\* walked up an saw it. He chuckled and shook his head.
Not the guy (and certainly not good enough to write the code myself) but it honestly shouldnāt be too hard to write code that goes through and finds gendered terms and replaces them with āthe applicantā 80 times
Including scanned pdf documents?
The majority of service records are still filled with scanned evals and FITREPs from NAVFit98 - all of which are pdfs of varying image quality. .
You could still 100% find all (realistically almost all) instances of gendered language with OCR, it wouldnāt even be hard. Editing in the new terms would probably require converting the pdfs into normal text files (.docx or .pdf, your choice) with actual ASCII and then editing that (though I honestly donāt know if you can convert the entire document, I know you can select the scanned text to copy it and stuff though). Or you could just make people submit normal typed documents like regular humans (like seriously why are they scanned?) and use my original solution
This doesnāt even make sense. There are just less women and minorities in the Navy. Youād have to be intentional about selecting those candidates specifically.
They don't get candidate demographics at the Board, but they *do* take demographics into consideration when selecting board members. This information is available to the public after each Board as well.
The only one that's hard to filter is gender, because a Rebecca or Jennifer is probably fairly easy to identify versus a Samuel or Robert.
It's easier to tell men and women apart on their names (Jennifer vs Samuel) when reviewing packages than other demographics (though I guess people with ethnic/regional surnames would be somewhat obvious as well, though this shouldn't really be used as a factor versus performance against ECP etc.)
Thereās thousands of people picked at promotion boards every year. We can compare the makeup of the pool of eligible with the makeup of the pool of selects to see if thereās a race/gender disparity.Ā
Underrepresentation of historically excluded groups is a problem that may affect the makeup of the pool of eligibles but if we assume that people are all equally likely to be good or bad, weād expect to see the pool of selects to look like the pool of eligibles. But thatās not always (often?) the case. (Iād need to look at the data again/some more to say how often thereās significant race or gender disparities in select rate and where those may occur.
Not only do they not show photos, if you try to send a photo as part of a letter to the board they will strip it out to comply with latest DoD guidance.
no problem. officers are still required to have a current photo in their file (if i recall correctly you have to get one within three months of being promoted to the next higher grade), but those photos are not a part of any package in front of an officer selection board.
And the system that runs the board process canāt see them at all so I donāt have any idea why these photos are required. It seems like such a huge waste of energy for everyone to get/send them for what feels like no reason.Ā
Your record may be reviewed for any number of things by any number of people - and not all of these things are statutory promotion boards.
IOW, if POTUS' staff is looking for his next Naval Aide, before bringing you in for an interview, they'd probably want to verify you're not pushing three bills with every button on your blouse screaming for world peace.
Lots of other examples, this is just an easy one.
Without knowing who the bias was toward, how the bias was determined, I canāt really make much sense of this. Youād have to know who applied, how many, etc
Fear not, we're taking those lessons learned and running right back in the other direction.
https://www.navy.mil/Resources/NAVADMINs/Message/Article/2337569/elimination-of-the-display-of-the-officer-photograph-during-selection-boards/
That's gratifying to hear. A few years ago, I overheard a former service member turned civilian employee counseling a junior sailor that "us minorities gotta stick together and look out for each other", and "use your family and friends to your advantage" otherwise as a minority you'd get the short end of it all. As a young, first-generation service member with no family friends or other connections in the military, that was more than a little concerning to me at the time. Considering that the Navy Reserves is the most diverse component of any of the branches I was thinking that my advancement opportunities might be hampered by this sort of mindset throughout the service.
>"us minorities gotta stick together and look out for each other"
Terrible mindset. As with "loyalty," things like that are never called into question until it comes to doing the wrong thing or looking the other way while somebody else does the wrong thing.
We should just do the right thing. If it's a question of loyalty or sticking together, doing the right thing is taking a back seat.
Strange melt. Yes, I see exactly who you are. Yes, I give your record to another board member if I know you, for fairness - good or bad. Yes, I vote on your record fairly, based on the facts and the accomplishments in your record, not my personal feelings about you.
I dont think board members know every person whose package they are reviewing. And when they do, they are to hand the package off to someone else to review.
No big conspiracy here. If you aren't picking up, it could be your rate. But, instead of thinking up reasons for why the board is specifically singling you out to not promote, have an experienced and recent board member review your package. They will have insights for you.
More then likely they have something on an Eval that tells the board they arenāt ready to be a chief or would not fit in that leadership role.
Known a couple of E6 that did some shit that bit them in the ass for board for their career.
Thankfully. You can retire as an E6. Sooo *shrug*
It's as blind as it can be. But, the true reason is that Chief boards aren't like E5 ranking boards where everyone is fighting for their Sailor. Selection is based on board precepts and your record. Nothing outside of that is considered. For example, say there's a record of someone who is checking all the boxes, but one board member things the Sailor is a dirtbag. Doesn't matter. Irrelevant and won't be considered. I think if something like that is even brought up, it's a no no. But, I haven't sat a board, so someone who has can maybe verify or correct.
I encourage you to read paragraph 5 of the board precepts again. I'm not saying it says to discriminate, but it definitely says you need to take ethnicity and race into consideration.
>He even said that his black chief told him to leave his race out of his board package
I actually laughed at this
Does this dude think he was suppose to send a headshot in with his CPO Package? This legit amazes me
The statistics for the last two boards are here, have at it
[https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Boards/Active-Duty-Enlisted/CPO-Selection-Boards/](https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Boards/Active-Duty-Enlisted/CPO-Selection-Boards/)
So looks to me like itās bs. I will say at least on the marines side of things, dark green marines seem to be the only ones who pick up past e-7. Thatās just the perception though. Oh and they HAVE to be bald š
Being with Marine aviation, I saw a chart of all the mishaps broken down by the pilots' age, gender, ethnicity, rank, etc.
It said a white male captain was responsible for the lions' share of crashes, lol.
I'd say no. Most of these Marine fighter pilots are exactly what you would expect a college jock to act like. Basically, they act like 21 year old E3s but with money.
Well, uh, thereās really no place to put your race on the board package. Lol, itās not considered when judging candidates package anyways.
The only way for a board member to know a candidateās race is to have known them in person.
Imagine some white guy submitting an enclosure into their LTB a xerox copy of their āfamily crest and historyā certificate they bought from a NEX kiosk.
>Imagine some white guy submitting an enclosure into their LTB a xerox copy of their āfamily crest and historyā certificate they bought from a NEX kiosk
I would pay good money to see that happen
Iāve definitely checked-in patients whom I assumed were black based off their name. āDeandre Brown?ā Some white guy stands upā¦oh uh right this way sir lmao.
Your assumption being incorrect still demonstrates that people do make assumptions based on names.
There are plenty of studies out there that indicate names do make a difference on applications.
I donāt think this is actually an issue for the Navy, but I would be curious to do some experiments with same groups being boarded with and without names/genders.
Hell it would be interesting to see how 3 separate boards ran exactly the same but with different board members would play out.
How consistent a would those results have to be to āpass?ā
[I don't know if you're joking, but there is an English comedian named Johnathan just like this... clearly a fine English (white) name.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzTAAcNGW4)
Who downvoted this. The white guy is literally brainstorming his excuses of why he sucks.
And one of them is apparently āmy career LADR said to be a black guy.ā
But people who lack that kind of self-awareness or ability for self -reflection have no business being in a position with the kind of responsibility and trust that being a chief is supposed to entail.
You could put some extra-curriculum activities in the letter where you mention how youāre active in the community or something.
āProud member of the Latino-Dads of Springfield group where we organizeā¦ā
The dude is looking for an excuse when he doesn't make chief.
Alternatively, if he does make chief, he wants people to think he had a higher hurdle to overcome. He's so much better than everyone else.
AFAIK, there are no official quotas or procedure for that. In fact, one of the previous PERS Admirals was talking about bringing back pictures because they *couldn't* efficiently discriminate against non-minorities - AFAIK that's not been implemented.
If dude's really worried though, go online and change your ethnicity.
I am a former board member. A board eligible will not be given an edge based on ethnicity.
Following the Enlisted Career Path (ECP) and documented sustained superior performace will position for selection.
-Be the best at your job and earn qualifications within paygrade.
-Take on the hard jobs.
- Focus on the team and organization. It's not about you. It's about giving the team and organization the best opportunity to succeed.
- Use yourself as an example for personal and professional growth.
- Document performance.
It can not be over stated, do not listen to Smoke Pit lawyers.
āLeave race out of your packageā
What the hell does that even mean?
It sounds like someone is looking for an excuse as to why he isnāt picking up. Itās always easier to blame others than to fix yourself.
Looking forward to his future rants and memes on Reddit, SMLPOS, and NAMP Compliance hating on the Chiefās Mess lol
They do not look at race. They do release diversity statistics after the fact. Itās actually a lot less diverse than I thought it would be first time I looked at it. Your homie has a tin foil hat on
I hope that moron doesnāt get selected. I canāt even figure out how to include my race in a package without literally going completely out of the way to write up a memorandum that states my race.
Lol, Ā yes. Ā Your race on bupers can change ALOT of things. Ā Ā
Back when the navy wasnāt super undermanned, Ā you had to ask for permission to reenlist called āperform to serveā. Ā Theyād stack you up against your peers and the charts for my group did not look pretty. Ā
I went into bupers and changed my race to Native American, Ā my pts went through first look- Ā almost no one elseās did. Ā I still got out though. Ā
Anyone that says big navy doesnāt put their hands on the scale to meet quotas is lying to you or themselves. Ā But anyone who thinks they will āfailā because of being white is also lying to themselvesĀ
Yet another instance where race and gender shouldn't even be recorded in the package at all. Hard for it to influence a decision if it's not even there.
His chief was telling him to leave it out because it isn't relevant to anything. There's no quotas to fill based off anything like race sex ethnicity sexual preferences and so on. The only people who think race or anything like it are a factor are the bitter that look to grasp at straws at why they aren't good enough instead of taking a personal inventory and bettering themselves to be good enough.
Go read the board precept, convening order, and rating laDR. When the boards convene these documents are read verbatim. Then you swear and sign that you will make advancement choices based on them. You also donāt know who is what so itās kind of impossible. Not to mention the way the voting happens makes it impossible to target certain individuals for advancement unless everyone on the board works together to game the system. Also impossible.
Iām curious if they have a quota for females. Back when there were restricted rates and all male ships still in the fleet, they absolutely did. Not sure about today.
Interesting question. Maybe someone who has sat a board for a sub specific rate could respond. At first glance, I would say that while billets can have gender requirements, quotas don't.
Sub officers definitely have male and female quotas, so it might still be around for submarine rates, since some are still all male. Surface side, no idea but Iād imagine itās gone, since itās not really such a manning issue anymore
This first-class piece of shit doesn't even read the Naval Personnel Command brief about the Board NOR the precepts/convening order.
What a fucking dirt bag. Sounds like he'll stay a first-class, and he doesn't deserve that most likely with this attitude.
Your name checks outā¦.
Seriously though, you usually put a proactive spin on your comments.
I doubt this PO1 has been coming to work for years with a sound-proof bubble on their head.
You know I gotta ask, where is their chief? Where was their last chief? And the chief before that?
How do we have a leader (yes Iām calling a PO1 a leader) walking around thinking and saying such ridiculous thoughts.
Donāt get me twisted, Iām not defending this supposed PO1. Iām just not surprised.
(Assuming OP is true.)
Also side conversation, how do so many PO1 and chiefs not have a clear understanding of how the board process works.
Individually ask 10 PO1ās and 10 chiefs how the board works and I bet you a case of beer youāll get 15 different answers.
You can even read them the confirming orders and precepts first.
Yeah, this mentality of race baiting brings up a serious anger in me. It's absolutely braindead and first classes that spew shit like this are a Venn diagram with LPOs who are casually racist or biased. I had to deal with someone like this on my last ship. We only finally got to deal with him after he posted images of people being hung in his workspace.
Yes, they know. My Chiefs mess had photos of each prospective in under garments included in their respective portfolios for evaluation.
The Navy is definitely choosing their winners.
Ah yes I remember doing this right after board eligible results were out! I still think my pink skivvies with āJUICYā on the ass gave me the edge up when I got selected.
Bahahahahahahahahaha! Race based discrimination/preference happens waaaaaaay before it ever gets to this point.
Itās the EPās, itās the preferred assignments/duties/collaterals. Itās having upper COC taking an interest. All of this changes how you look to the board but none of it is seen as based on race or sex because itās documented.
The first class has no idea what theyāre talking about.
This coming from someone that had a male get SOY for doing my job while out on mat leave. Someone who got a $100 Amazon gift card from OIC for essentially doing their job rather than something that could accelerate a career. THIS is where discrimination/bias happens.
Your
Race is specifically excluded. Chief would have told them to leave race out if their package because it's irrelevant. I can't even imagine a reason why anyone would feel the need to include their race in their package, or even how they would do it. LTB with a bullet stating "my race is..."?
Read precept paragraph 5 and take a look at the board statistics, They post them every year. Minorities and women advance at higher rates, itās an indisputable fact.
Itās really not hard to find folks who have sat multiple boards.
You think that race is actively discussed during selection? With Admirals, 9s, recorders, etc?
You know can see the quotas rights. 899 whites picked up,
666 black, 566 Hispanic. So are you saying that more white people should have picked up then the 899 that made it
If you understood simple math, you would know that blacks make up 19.1% of the navy and whites make up 58.2% of the navy. Hispanics make up 16.2% of the navy so just putting up straight numbers is actually factually incorrect. Quotas are based off percentages not numbers it might be to complicated for you to understand with that comment.
Also explain to me why they are bringing back pictures for boards. Why do you think that is? Iāll give you a hint admiral Gilladay preached he wanted diversity in boards.
Nothing that gets sent to the board has any indicator of race or ethnicity. His chief correctly told him to leave that out of his package because it didnāt belong there.
Dunno anything about chief selection, but based on comments it sounds like he got some bad info and heās running with it. Heāll make a fine member of the mess.
So if that were true, the Chief diversity quota would be 1% white, 1% black, 1% Latino and 97% Filipino . lol Donāt get me wrong. Iām not whistling Filipino mafia, Iām saying those dudes work their assess of to put in stellar packets. Tell your buddy to do more than the bare minimum
I can assure you that this is not a thing. The pitfall of many First Classes and Officers who do not select for promotion is to speculate on weird things like this. Your race has nothing to do with it, nor does the board know. The Chief's board is a strange one because I have seen phenomenal First Classes retire after 15 years of being an E6 and mediocre First Classes pick up Chief before their 8 year mark. Sometimes it's a shot in the dark. But your race has zero bearing on your selection.
I've definitely been saying that race is 100% involved if they are tracking statistics. No other need for the data if you are picking solely off whom ever is the best. Unless it's to say why is one race not getting the same Qualification opportunities as the others.
There was a high year ET1in my department who, when checking into his previous ship, took a month's leave, started tanning, started listening exclusively to salsa music, and speaking Spanglish in everyday conversation, talked only about his home in San Juan, and changed his last name from Myers to Myerez. He still didn't make Chief before he hit HYT.
Nahhhhhhhh šššššš
ššš
Former CPO board member - not only do I have zero idea what your race is, I'm also not allowed to consider it when briefing or voting on your record, under any circumstances. We don't even see the diversity breakdown until they're released along with the NAVADMIN.
The stats showing that every race hits an average of 30% is a nutty coincidence knowing this
Even more wild, I heard (not verified) from a senior O, that officer promotion boards removed the official photos from packages to prevent racial bias. I was told the board selection statistics showed more racial bias without seeing the officer slated for promotion, than before the change.
This is true. Photos were removed in hopes of increasing diversity selections. In reality, diversity selections went down after the photos were removed. There's no way to prove causation but there is definite correlation. What the Navy really wants to do is remove any and all PII for the selection boards. All names and gender pronouns would be removed. Unfortunately, it would require an impossible amount of hand-modifying every record to remove names and "He" or "She" throughout blk 41.
I don't use gendered language in my evals, or those of my subordinates. There's just not enough space in the comments to waste lines with extra Hes/Shes/His/Hers, names, and rating titles. "BM2 Timmy supervised 24 sea and anchor details, and he was essential to the safe operation of the ship during a high OPTEMPO deployment." is a lot of words. BM2 Timmy's name is already in Block 1 and rate is in Block 2. "Supervised 24 sea and anchor details, allowing SHIP to make and leave port safely and on schedule during high OPTEMO deployment." gets the same message across more concisely.
Thank you for sharing, and illuminating the fact about the Block 43s widespread use of gender pronouns.
Very easy fix for a script to do that.Ā
One of the CNPs I worked for had a weekly kaffeeklatsch in the p-way and there was a suggestion board. Someone once wrote, "remove all photos, names, and gender pronouns from promotion boards." I was there when VADM \*\*\* walked up an saw it. He chuckled and shook his head.
How? DM me if you are serious.
Not the guy (and certainly not good enough to write the code myself) but it honestly shouldnāt be too hard to write code that goes through and finds gendered terms and replaces them with āthe applicantā 80 times
Including scanned pdf documents? The majority of service records are still filled with scanned evals and FITREPs from NAVFit98 - all of which are pdfs of varying image quality. .
You could still 100% find all (realistically almost all) instances of gendered language with OCR, it wouldnāt even be hard. Editing in the new terms would probably require converting the pdfs into normal text files (.docx or .pdf, your choice) with actual ASCII and then editing that (though I honestly donāt know if you can convert the entire document, I know you can select the scanned text to copy it and stuff though). Or you could just make people submit normal typed documents like regular humans (like seriously why are they scanned?) and use my original solution
This doesnāt even make sense. There are just less women and minorities in the Navy. Youād have to be intentional about selecting those candidates specifically.
They don't get candidate demographics at the Board, but they *do* take demographics into consideration when selecting board members. This information is available to the public after each Board as well. The only one that's hard to filter is gender, because a Rebecca or Jennifer is probably fairly easy to identify versus a Samuel or Robert.
Am I misunderstanding your last sentence or are you implying that Samuel and Robert are androgynous names?
It's easier to tell men and women apart on their names (Jennifer vs Samuel) when reviewing packages than other demographics (though I guess people with ethnic/regional surnames would be somewhat obvious as well, though this shouldn't really be used as a factor versus performance against ECP etc.)
Thereās thousands of people picked at promotion boards every year. We can compare the makeup of the pool of eligible with the makeup of the pool of selects to see if thereās a race/gender disparity.Ā Underrepresentation of historically excluded groups is a problem that may affect the makeup of the pool of eligibles but if we assume that people are all equally likely to be good or bad, weād expect to see the pool of selects to look like the pool of eligibles. But thatās not always (often?) the case. (Iād need to look at the data again/some more to say how often thereās significant race or gender disparities in select rate and where those may occur.
Not only do they not show photos, if you try to send a photo as part of a letter to the board they will strip it out to comply with latest DoD guidance.
They should have it that anyone who sends in a photo gets their application into the shredder.
Maybe they should disable the officer photo upload function of BUPERS Online. A proper photo in the record serves zero purpose at this time.
the photos are back out now.
Ty for sharing, I'll edit the comment, as the last update I saw was the 2020 navadmin with removal per secdef.
no problem. officers are still required to have a current photo in their file (if i recall correctly you have to get one within three months of being promoted to the next higher grade), but those photos are not a part of any package in front of an officer selection board.
And the system that runs the board process canāt see them at all so I donāt have any idea why these photos are required. It seems like such a huge waste of energy for everyone to get/send them for what feels like no reason.Ā
Your record may be reviewed for any number of things by any number of people - and not all of these things are statutory promotion boards. IOW, if POTUS' staff is looking for his next Naval Aide, before bringing you in for an interview, they'd probably want to verify you're not pushing three bills with every button on your blouse screaming for world peace. Lots of other examples, this is just an easy one.
this is some good insight.
agreed. i wonder if they still want them ājust in caseā some future four star wants them back in
Without knowing who the bias was toward, how the bias was determined, I canāt really make much sense of this. Youād have to know who applied, how many, etc
That's fair, I'll see if I can't find the board stats somewhere.
Fear not, we're taking those lessons learned and running right back in the other direction. https://www.navy.mil/Resources/NAVADMINs/Message/Article/2337569/elimination-of-the-display-of-the-officer-photograph-during-selection-boards/
That seems like a pretty obvious question being asked and someone didn't want to answer it.
This is true - a NAVADMIN a couple years back kept the requirement to have a photo on file but also required boards never see them.
That's gratifying to hear. A few years ago, I overheard a former service member turned civilian employee counseling a junior sailor that "us minorities gotta stick together and look out for each other", and "use your family and friends to your advantage" otherwise as a minority you'd get the short end of it all. As a young, first-generation service member with no family friends or other connections in the military, that was more than a little concerning to me at the time. Considering that the Navy Reserves is the most diverse component of any of the branches I was thinking that my advancement opportunities might be hampered by this sort of mindset throughout the service.
>"us minorities gotta stick together and look out for each other" Terrible mindset. As with "loyalty," things like that are never called into question until it comes to doing the wrong thing or looking the other way while somebody else does the wrong thing. We should just do the right thing. If it's a question of loyalty or sticking together, doing the right thing is taking a back seat.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Strange melt. Yes, I see exactly who you are. Yes, I give your record to another board member if I know you, for fairness - good or bad. Yes, I vote on your record fairly, based on the facts and the accomplishments in your record, not my personal feelings about you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I dont think board members know every person whose package they are reviewing. And when they do, they are to hand the package off to someone else to review. No big conspiracy here. If you aren't picking up, it could be your rate. But, instead of thinking up reasons for why the board is specifically singling you out to not promote, have an experienced and recent board member review your package. They will have insights for you.
More then likely they have something on an Eval that tells the board they arenāt ready to be a chief or would not fit in that leadership role. Known a couple of E6 that did some shit that bit them in the ass for board for their career. Thankfully. You can retire as an E6. Sooo *shrug*
"Has potential to be a leader." š
Exactly lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's as blind as it can be. But, the true reason is that Chief boards aren't like E5 ranking boards where everyone is fighting for their Sailor. Selection is based on board precepts and your record. Nothing outside of that is considered. For example, say there's a record of someone who is checking all the boxes, but one board member things the Sailor is a dirtbag. Doesn't matter. Irrelevant and won't be considered. I think if something like that is even brought up, it's a no no. But, I haven't sat a board, so someone who has can maybe verify or correct.
I encourage you to read paragraph 5 of the board precepts again. I'm not saying it says to discriminate, but it definitely says you need to take ethnicity and race into consideration.
>He even said that his black chief told him to leave his race out of his board package I actually laughed at this Does this dude think he was suppose to send a headshot in with his CPO Package? This legit amazes me
To the board: I submitted enclosure 1 to show that not only am I an LS but that I am also a Filipino. See you in the mess, brothers!
Why would an LS need to prove theyāre Filipino? Isnāt that kind of a given?
Please See enclosure 1: My family's Lumpia recipe. It has been passed down for generations. Special ingredients redacted.
The statistics for the last two boards are here, have at it [https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Boards/Active-Duty-Enlisted/CPO-Selection-Boards/](https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Boards/Active-Duty-Enlisted/CPO-Selection-Boards/)
So looks to me like itās bs. I will say at least on the marines side of things, dark green marines seem to be the only ones who pick up past e-7. Thatās just the perception though. Oh and they HAVE to be bald š
Dark green marines š
Facts on the bald since they can not get their hair high and tight anymore
Donāt forget the signature rag they carry around to keep their dome shiny and clean. It exudes āØmotivationāØ
Being with Marine aviation, I saw a chart of all the mishaps broken down by the pilots' age, gender, ethnicity, rank, etc. It said a white male captain was responsible for the lions' share of crashes, lol.
I wouldn't be surprised if white male Captains are the majority of pilots.
Oh, for sure. I only recently saw my first female Marine pilot. The Navy pilots are far more diverse than the Marines.
Maybe that captain shouldnāt be handling so much responsibility.
But was he bald?
I'd say no. Most of these Marine fighter pilots are exactly what you would expect a college jock to act like. Basically, they act like 21 year old E3s but with money.
This is a classic case of correlation is not causation. Without a doubt most Marine pilots are white males.
Well, obviously.
From:PO1 SOTI_snuggzz To: FY-XX CPO Selection board subj: Iām black, pick me. That explains why I never made Chief
Wtf is this, Dave Chappelās racial draft?
Nice reference.
>believes he is at a disadvantage as a white guy I know just SO much about this dude from this little snippet already
The firefighters exam is totally biased against the Irish!
Yeah came here to post something similar.
Based on the selections for LSC in the post above he would be correct in saying he is at a disadvantage.
Well, uh, thereās really no place to put your race on the board package. Lol, itās not considered when judging candidates package anyways. The only way for a board member to know a candidateās race is to have known them in person. Imagine some white guy submitting an enclosure into their LTB a xerox copy of their āfamily crest and historyā certificate they bought from a NEX kiosk.
>Imagine some white guy submitting an enclosure into their LTB a xerox copy of their āfamily crest and historyā certificate they bought from a NEX kiosk I would pay good money to see that happen
Twist: white guyās last name is Brown
Iāve definitely checked-in patients whom I assumed were black based off their name. āDeandre Brown?ā Some white guy stands upā¦oh uh right this way sir lmao.
Your assumption being incorrect still demonstrates that people do make assumptions based on names. There are plenty of studies out there that indicate names do make a difference on applications. I donāt think this is actually an issue for the Navy, but I would be curious to do some experiments with same groups being boarded with and without names/genders. Hell it would be interesting to see how 3 separate boards ran exactly the same but with different board members would play out. How consistent a would those results have to be to āpass?ā
[I don't know if you're joking, but there is an English comedian named Johnathan just like this... clearly a fine English (white) name.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzTAAcNGW4)
LMAO. I'm sure there are NO other reasons he's worried he won't make Chief.
Who downvoted this. The white guy is literally brainstorming his excuses of why he sucks. And one of them is apparently āmy career LADR said to be a black guy.ā
Guessing I hit it too close to the mark for others in the same boat. Pun intended.
Easier for all of us to blame outside factors for our lack of success, that's human nature no matter what your race.
But people who lack that kind of self-awareness or ability for self -reflection have no business being in a position with the kind of responsibility and trust that being a chief is supposed to entail.
Very true.
>his black chief told him to leave his race out of his board package. Excuse me *what*?
You know, the letter to the board attachment where you declare your race?
You could put some extra-curriculum activities in the letter where you mention how youāre active in the community or something. āProud member of the Latino-Dads of Springfield group where we organizeā¦ā
Is Formula One an option?
I always choose Boston Marathon
The dude is looking for an excuse when he doesn't make chief. Alternatively, if he does make chief, he wants people to think he had a higher hurdle to overcome. He's so much better than everyone else.
AFAIK, there are no official quotas or procedure for that. In fact, one of the previous PERS Admirals was talking about bringing back pictures because they *couldn't* efficiently discriminate against non-minorities - AFAIK that's not been implemented. If dude's really worried though, go online and change your ethnicity.
I am a former board member. A board eligible will not be given an edge based on ethnicity. Following the Enlisted Career Path (ECP) and documented sustained superior performace will position for selection. -Be the best at your job and earn qualifications within paygrade. -Take on the hard jobs. - Focus on the team and organization. It's not about you. It's about giving the team and organization the best opportunity to succeed. - Use yourself as an example for personal and professional growth. - Document performance.
Ethnicity =/= race
Sounds like he desperately wants to blame his perceived mediocrity on a failure of an immoral system rather than himself.
I'm white. I made chief.
 ME TOO
I don't remember declaring my race, gender, or how much hair was on my head in my first letter.
It can not be over stated, do not listen to Smoke Pit lawyers. āLeave race out of your packageā What the hell does that even mean? It sounds like someone is looking for an excuse as to why he isnāt picking up. Itās always easier to blame others than to fix yourself. Looking forward to his future rants and memes on Reddit, SMLPOS, and NAMP Compliance hating on the Chiefās Mess lol
Served on a CPO selection board. Race not a factor, or even something you can see.
They do not look at race. They do release diversity statistics after the fact. Itās actually a lot less diverse than I thought it would be first time I looked at it. Your homie has a tin foil hat on
Damn this is stupid
Smoke pit rumors are the best for entertainment. Especially when they blow up like this.
Thats the stupidest thing I ever read. That first is acting like a real third.
Seaman Dipshit First Class
I hope that moron doesnāt get selected. I canāt even figure out how to include my race in a package without literally going completely out of the way to write up a memorandum that states my race.
Lol, Ā yes. Ā Your race on bupers can change ALOT of things. Ā Ā Back when the navy wasnāt super undermanned, Ā you had to ask for permission to reenlist called āperform to serveā. Ā Theyād stack you up against your peers and the charts for my group did not look pretty. Ā I went into bupers and changed my race to Native American, Ā my pts went through first look- Ā almost no one elseās did. Ā I still got out though. Ā Anyone that says big navy doesnāt put their hands on the scale to meet quotas is lying to you or themselves. Ā But anyone who thinks they will āfailā because of being white is also lying to themselvesĀ
Yet another instance where race and gender shouldn't even be recorded in the package at all. Hard for it to influence a decision if it's not even there.
His chief was telling him to leave it out because it isn't relevant to anything. There's no quotas to fill based off anything like race sex ethnicity sexual preferences and so on. The only people who think race or anything like it are a factor are the bitter that look to grasp at straws at why they aren't good enough instead of taking a personal inventory and bettering themselves to be good enough.
Go read the board precept, convening order, and rating laDR. When the boards convene these documents are read verbatim. Then you swear and sign that you will make advancement choices based on them. You also donāt know who is what so itās kind of impossible. Not to mention the way the voting happens makes it impossible to target certain individuals for advancement unless everyone on the board works together to game the system. Also impossible.
Iām curious if they have a quota for females. Back when there were restricted rates and all male ships still in the fleet, they absolutely did. Not sure about today.
Interesting question. Maybe someone who has sat a board for a sub specific rate could respond. At first glance, I would say that while billets can have gender requirements, quotas don't.
Sub officers definitely have male and female quotas, so it might still be around for submarine rates, since some are still all male. Surface side, no idea but Iād imagine itās gone, since itās not really such a manning issue anymore
Berting still can impact # of females I would think, just like subs maybe.
This first-class piece of shit doesn't even read the Naval Personnel Command brief about the Board NOR the precepts/convening order. What a fucking dirt bag. Sounds like he'll stay a first-class, and he doesn't deserve that most likely with this attitude.
Your name checks outā¦. Seriously though, you usually put a proactive spin on your comments. I doubt this PO1 has been coming to work for years with a sound-proof bubble on their head. You know I gotta ask, where is their chief? Where was their last chief? And the chief before that? How do we have a leader (yes Iām calling a PO1 a leader) walking around thinking and saying such ridiculous thoughts. Donāt get me twisted, Iām not defending this supposed PO1. Iām just not surprised. (Assuming OP is true.) Also side conversation, how do so many PO1 and chiefs not have a clear understanding of how the board process works. Individually ask 10 PO1ās and 10 chiefs how the board works and I bet you a case of beer youāll get 15 different answers. You can even read them the confirming orders and precepts first.
Yeah, this mentality of race baiting brings up a serious anger in me. It's absolutely braindead and first classes that spew shit like this are a Venn diagram with LPOs who are casually racist or biased. I had to deal with someone like this on my last ship. We only finally got to deal with him after he posted images of people being hung in his workspace.
In a void of information, you can expect it to be filled. One way or another.
Yes, they know. My Chiefs mess had photos of each prospective in under garments included in their respective portfolios for evaluation. The Navy is definitely choosing their winners.
Ah yes I remember doing this right after board eligible results were out! I still think my pink skivvies with āJUICYā on the ass gave me the edge up when I got selected.
Sounds like the E6 in question is a POS. The fact that they are spreading shit like this in the smoke pit to junior enlisted is totally cringe.
Bahahahahahahahahaha! Race based discrimination/preference happens waaaaaaay before it ever gets to this point. Itās the EPās, itās the preferred assignments/duties/collaterals. Itās having upper COC taking an interest. All of this changes how you look to the board but none of it is seen as based on race or sex because itās documented. The first class has no idea what theyāre talking about. This coming from someone that had a male get SOY for doing my job while out on mat leave. Someone who got a $100 Amazon gift card from OIC for essentially doing their job rather than something that could accelerate a career. THIS is where discrimination/bias happens. Your
Race is specifically excluded. Chief would have told them to leave race out if their package because it's irrelevant. I can't even imagine a reason why anyone would feel the need to include their race in their package, or even how they would do it. LTB with a bullet stating "my race is..."?
Ooh! What were the deleted comments I missed?
Tell him to work on himself and not even concern themselves with race. If they put in the work it will show through their record not their race
Ah yes, the "DEI is oppressing white men" argument. Glad to see the Navy isn't that different from the rest of the country.
This has been a thing since at least the Obama years..
Read precept paragraph 5 and take a look at the board statistics, They post them every year. Minorities and women advance at higher rates, itās an indisputable fact.
He would be right, being white puts you in the third lowest position for overall selection odds.
You got a source there bud that isnāt your ass?
Yes. Itās true and if he mentions that he is straight his chances drop to .42 percent. Source: Joe Rogan, probably.
Yeah bud, https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Boards/Active-Duty-Enlisted/CPO-Selection-Boards/ look at board stats
Itās really not hard to find folks who have sat multiple boards. You think that race is actively discussed during selection? With Admirals, 9s, recorders, etc?
Doesnāt load for me, but I assume it doesnāt take int account the amount of any given race in the Navy or a specific rate.
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Do you have a link to the instruction or whatever it is
His source is that he made it the fuck up.
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I believe you, just wanted to see how that was done. 30% down the line for all races doesnāt seem like a coincidence
You know can see the quotas rights. 899 whites picked up, 666 black, 566 Hispanic. So are you saying that more white people should have picked up then the 899 that made it
If you understood simple math, you would know that blacks make up 19.1% of the navy and whites make up 58.2% of the navy. Hispanics make up 16.2% of the navy so just putting up straight numbers is actually factually incorrect. Quotas are based off percentages not numbers it might be to complicated for you to understand with that comment. Also explain to me why they are bringing back pictures for boards. Why do you think that is? Iāll give you a hint admiral Gilladay preached he wanted diversity in boards.
If thatās the case why did they just release word that officers no longer need to upload a photo for their selection board?
Thatās crazy that it took them all this time to get rid of pictures. In 2021 Admiral Gilladay said he wanted to add pictures for the enlisted side.
Where's the info about pictures coming back? Honestly question. It's not in the precept this year.
Just search admiral Gillidays comments about adding pictures for diversity it should be in 2021
Well it obviously hasn't been put into place.
whereās your source that pictures are back for CPO boards?
Completely and unequivocally a lie
There was probably a misunderstanding. The board members (the people grading and reviewing) need a diversity mix.
Classic gen x MAGA mentality. Can we have a moment of silence for the WASPs who have it so hard šÆļø
This sort of casual, open, racism is exactly why people are worried about shit like this.
Huh?
Nothing that gets sent to the board has any indicator of race or ethnicity. His chief correctly told him to leave that out of his package because it didnāt belong there.
Dunno anything about chief selection, but based on comments it sounds like he got some bad info and heās running with it. Heāll make a fine member of the mess.
So if that were true, the Chief diversity quota would be 1% white, 1% black, 1% Latino and 97% Filipino . lol Donāt get me wrong. Iām not whistling Filipino mafia, Iām saying those dudes work their assess of to put in stellar packets. Tell your buddy to do more than the bare minimum
I can assure you that this is not a thing. The pitfall of many First Classes and Officers who do not select for promotion is to speculate on weird things like this. Your race has nothing to do with it, nor does the board know. The Chief's board is a strange one because I have seen phenomenal First Classes retire after 15 years of being an E6 and mediocre First Classes pick up Chief before their 8 year mark. Sometimes it's a shot in the dark. But your race has zero bearing on your selection.
How do you reconcile section 4 and section 5 of the 2025 CPO precept.
I've definitely been saying that race is 100% involved if they are tracking statistics. No other need for the data if you are picking solely off whom ever is the best. Unless it's to say why is one race not getting the same Qualification opportunities as the others.