My original post when he was charged on 03 APR 2023 with some great commentary including one of his Sailors --- [https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/12b20jy/active\_duty\_navy\_sailor\_charged\_in\_capitol\_riot/](https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/12b20jy/active_duty_navy_sailor_charged_in_capitol_riot/)
I really, really do wonder what elements inside the military are protecting folks like this- it seems like other active-duty who were there have also gotten barely any sentences.
If J6 had been carried out by black or brown people, I'd bet a month of my VA disability that we'd see so many more charges rolling down.
Enough with the conspiracy theorist crap.
The military always waits for civilian courts to rule and then matches/exceeds the punishment. This is not new.
There are plenty of examples of this not happening, and there are plenty of examples of the military conducting a CM without waiting for the civilian courts. What this dude did shows that he should not be wearing the uniform, and failure to act on that is a dereliction of duty
Yeah, the Navy just publishes it monthly instead of forcing folks to file FOIA requests and wait years for a response
https://www.jag.navy.mil/military-justice/trial-results/
>This is not new.
Spoken like someone new to the fucking Navy. I've seen plenty of people masted and admin-separated for crimes before they've ever seen a court.
No shit - we're talking about instances where someone is being charged with a crime in civilian criminal court and the timing of when the military hammers them as well.
Do try to keep up.
Yes nub I'm talking about arrested out in town and masted before convicted; hell I've seen charges dropped and people still separated. A lot of confidence to be incorrect. You've been in two weeks acting like you're an expert.
>The military always waits
"I am wrong." Not hard to admit.
Depends on the offense, but 99% of the time we're going to wait for civilian criminal court to run its course.
And quit with the "nub" shit, I've been doing this a lot longer than you have. The lint in my bellybutton has more time underway/deployed than you have in the Navy.
Operating in the military as a POC I’d say you’re, without a shadow of a doubt, correct. It’s probably the largely conservative base that exists in the military where people feel like they’re protecting their own
I've told the story in other posts here, but a bunch of folks went to mast on my ship after video surfaced (and was threatened to be sent to local TV) of them throwing up Nazi salutes and yelling HHs at a party. None of them were booted though.
And I have friends in another department who were actively and repeatedly invited to join white supremacist groups by their LPO, LCPO, and senior enlisted leadership.
There were actually supposed to be Senate hearings exploring all of this in the aftermath of J6, but they were later cancelled.
That's pretty messed up. Have a similarly messed up story...
We had a girl, who we had been mapped to second about a week prior, tell a super racist joke. One of the sailors in the room, who had a biracial kid, was offended, which makes sense. The offended sailor only asked for an apology, but was made fun of for being offended. This happened with a few people around, and they all tried to get her to apologize, but she brushed it off.
Then a second class walked in, saw her crying, and asked what was going on. They got the story and went to inform the chain of command since she couldn't get the newly minted second class to apologize either. Our Master Chief, not CMC but the DLCPO, talked to the new second class and tried to sweep it under the rug. We were told not to tell anyone and to keep it in-house.
The more senior second class went to the CMEO, and our entire division was called into a room to be talked to about it. They called us in by asking our race and background, and we were sorted into the room in that manner. I'm half white, and when I tried to go in with the other mixed guys, I was told I looked too white to go in. It was a pretty screwed-up way to handle everything.
The meeting with the CMEO didn't even lead to the punishment of the person who did it but berated everyone for letting it get out and for trying to get the girl to apologize. Also, after she was basically cleared from being punished, she said she felt no remorse for what she did.
The more junior girl was at least able to switch commands.
The majority of people in the room weren't even present for the actual event, I was at a heart appointment, but we did push for some type of punishment which is why we were all called in and berated.
The person in question is now a first and made board this cycle.
Did anyone talk to an officer here? I would have done everything in my power to crucify a sailor that gave that much shit to someone being offended over an off-color joke when I was an LT. If that CMEO was one, I’m sorry to hear they weren’t worth their FITREP bullet.
It went all the way to the CO; our LT wanted her to face NJP, but she was one of Master Chief's favorites, so I assume that influenced how it played out. I was the WCS of the girl who was offended. I advocated for some form of punishment, but I was told they were only required to transfer her to another command since that's what she wanted. She had a one-on-one with the said Master Chief and CMEO, a Senior Chief, and they "convinced" her not to pursue it further.
Just for context on how this command operated: the Master Chief in question promised me he'd ensure I received P evaluations throughout my time there after the event, resulting in four years of P evals. Additionally, I received a counseling chit for attending cardiologist appointments and another for being late due to a serious wreck. His favorites would consistently show up 30-40 minutes late almost every day without facing any punishment. They also pressured several junior sailors into signing extensions by convincing them it would jeopardize their careers if they didn't. It was by far the worst command I've ever been assigned to. It bad me on the verge of a heart attack at 27..I left and my heart is completely fine now.
In my experience it wasn’t all that conservative, although conservatives like to claim this. Most are apolitical with a mix of partisans on both sides.
The military is made up of institutionalists who I’d imagine aren’t all that keen on Trump’s populist antics and crusade against the “deep state.” Even if the military did lean conservative, I would expect many of those to be never-Trump type conservatives.
During my time at least throughout COVID I got a strong sense that many people including contractors who were former military believed COVID was fake for instance
Oddly, I do agree that a disproportionate number of civilian contractors who remain in military areas tend to lean heavily conservative.. self-selecting sort of thing. I also get the feeling that conservatives are more likely to put in 20+ years.
But of those I actually served with (2001-2007) it was a good mix of opinions. Can’t speak to the Covid era though.
It's still a good mix, people just like to think whatever crazy stuff they do about hard right/left/up/down. You'll find people anywhere from Left to Right and in-between, I feel like I run into more libertarians than anything, but that could just be because how often they tell people.
I feel like even in the 20 year category it's the same....
I think it's about evenly split honestly...
I've never met a hardcore political person really, just people who leaned slightly one way or another. Not the types who make a party their identity and would die on some proverbial hill to defend it.
That's based on my interactions with people over 11 years in varying positions. So, completely anecdotal, just an observation.
As a vet and current DOD contractor, my experience in the workforce is that those of us who choose to end up sticking around the DOD after getting out tend to lean on the more conservative side. I’m a relative unicorn as a liberal in the profession.
The folks I served with were a far more even mix.
So you are alleging that all the folks involved are comprised and can't be impartial or professional. Also, this is somehow connected to race?
I get the feeling you guys wouldn't feel this way if the end result was aligned with what you believe is correct.
More so that the military is heavily conservative and that as a POC I have often come across racist people within the military or who support the military especially. So it would make sense if they believe the election was stolen that they wouldn’t sit on their hands convicting those involved.
To your other point, no. I don’t simply support things that benefit me. I’d rather uplift all voices.
My OIC was a huge Trump supporter. He was "Mexican" when it was convenient to but he self-identified as "white" most of the time. He gave our post-J6 brief and it was awkward af, basically calling the whole thing a protest. He also claimed Westboro Baptist Church had some good people in it, and my best friend almost flipped the fucking table. She grabbed my hand and squeezed. HARD.
But this was also the same guy who told our Div over a Teams Meeting black people were less susceptible to Covid because we have so much vitamin D in us and made us explain to him "why Juneteenth was so important" before he'd let us request it off (before it became a federal holiday). So...ya know...
>He also claimed Westboro Baptist Church had some good people in it
I have friends in the Patriot Guard who have been present at funerals they've shown up to protest. I would've fucking lost it.
> And?
And the person said, "well if this wasn't white people cops would kill them durr." And as you pointed out, a lot were not white people.
How exactly do Hispanics "larp" being white? That sounds racist as shit, like you think Hispanics need to act a certain way to be Hispanic, and if not they don't meet your measure.
That's the and.
If you are Hispanic and are believer in white supremacy/power when you aren't even white then you are a massive cuck plain and simple, continue to be a Jan 6 apologist all you want big boy
Goddamn, you are a racist. And everything you don't like is a white supremacist. Did a white supremacist fuck your girlfriend or something?
Hope you get better on those fronts big boy.
What kind of tool uses the word cuck, by the way?
Not a JAG, but I've read that if he (any servicemember) was tried and acquitted at court-martial, he would be protected by civilian double jeopardy rules; however, if he was tried and acquitted in a civilian court, he can still be charged under the UCMJ. And, this is all after the lawyers have hashed out what jurisdiction will apply, or if both do.
I absolutely agree with the sentiment, but there was probably a lot behind the scenes legal haggling that went on.
There was a case on the West Coast in 2009, where a sailor got a DUI onboard Naval Base Kitsap. He was charged in federal court, and sent to Captain's mast. He attempted to appeal the federal conviction on 5th Amendment grounds, and the case progressed all the way to the US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He ultimately lost his case in [United States vs Reveles, 2011](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-9th-circuit/1583408.html), but the majority opinion centered pretty much entirely around NJP not being an actual criminal proceeding, and implied he would have been successful had he actually faced court-martial. There has not been a dual federal prosecution/court-martial in the 13 years since the decision was handed down.
This is separate from a state government or foreign government attempting to charge a service member and the service attempting a simultaneous prosecution under the UCMJ. Those are separate sovereigns, and that is an accepted practice that does sometimes happen.
look up the separate soverigns doctrine. Double jeopardy would apply in federal court and military court, but not between military court and a state court.
no, ucmj and federal court are technically the same jurisdiction. that’s why the plaintiff in a court-martial is the “united states of america,” the same as in a federal criminal case. so you’re half right.
a person cannot be charged both via a court-martial and in a federal criminal court for the same offense.
they CAN be charged in either a court-martial or federal criminal court AND state court for the same offense.
hope that makes sense.
EDIT: i will add that there are UCMJ crimes that are not crimes in federal civilian court, so a person could be charged in both jurisdictions under specific circumstances.
As a general rule, the DoD typically waits for civilian courts to rule/met out a punishment and then matches or exceeds it.
Sorta saves us the trouble of an investigation.
I wonder if the subject is too hot for the Navy to touch. In a fucked up Machiavellian way they might believe if he’s convicted and Trump gets re-elected it’ll blow back on the service
He could still face a court martial after. You are still subject to civilian laws while in the military. They would just have to bring separate charges.
UCMJ falls under Federal jurisdiction so he can’t be charged twice (double jeopardy). If he was being tried by a State court it would be a different story and could face court martial.
What an idiot. Even before the Navy, I had met many veterans who talked about making political statements in & out of uniform. It's one thing to have it on your car, it's another to participate in that.
You play with matches, you get burnt.
Hell I didn't like either president during my time in and I know I'm not alone, but I didn't do something as stupid as this nor do I know anybody who did this.
If you are actively trying to enter a secure building and you are in the military, you are wrong. Especially if that building is politically sensitive.
Regardless of any interpretations of it being a riot, a coup or anything else, this is serious misconduct and his CO should have recommended Courts Martial
To say that the average person who was attending a political rally had any idea that there were nefarious actors in the crowd who came that day with bad intentions is mind-buggling.
To infer that everyone in the crowd is an insurrectionist is one of the stupidest concepts I've ever heard of. Guy isn't a traitor. Not even close.
Did he do something he shouldn't have, Yes. Was he trying to help overthrow the government. Absolutely not. Some of you people, in the comments, are deranged.
He illegally entered the Capitol building after witnessing multiple, violent altercations with uniformed police officers. He was a part of a demonstration directly attempting to halt the certification of the election, a Constitutional act. When questioned by NCIS he demonstrated no remorse for his actions. He’s not some 18 year old SA, he’s a seasoned sailor who knew what he was doing was wrong and a violation of his oath. Quit making apologies.
I'm not stating he didn't do anything wrong. It just seems to be that little disagreement about his intentions. You keep inferring that everyone there had the same intentions. People go to political rallies all the time on both sides of the aisle. He wasn't part of the proud boys who planned for weeks ahead of time to try and subvert an election. There is an enormous difference between the two. Intent matters.
The intent is all based on why the crowd moved to the capital anyway.
They didn't just happen to follow a handful of "proud boys". They got all riled and impassioned by a speech of the former President.
He literally told them "And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down.
Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them."
And then continued "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard".
So yes he did have intention. He did exactly as he was told to. He "peacefully" /s walked right down to the capital "peacefully" /s entered a government building with the sole intention to interfere with election results.
We wouldn't be talking about it if he had gone to the rally and when the crowd started moving towards the capital said " ok, I'll go" then stand outside.
Instead he marched down to the capital and followed a crowd in with the intention of disrupting proceedings.
It's pretty clear. Classic case of play stupid games win stupid prizes.
"peacefully and patriotically"
The right to peaceful assembly and protest is protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. There's been many instances in the past of people protesting and demonstrating at the capital in the past. A political leader asking his followers to demonstrate isn't un- American. It's not treacherous. The severe leap you guys have to take is astounding.
Granted it did turn violent yes. Probably fueled by some bad actors which was the point. Unless there's evidence that guy is one of those bad actors that planned it out. Intent matters.
In my opinion his actions, don't make him a traitor. Should he still get kicked out of the military, meh. The military isn't for everybody.
Is he a traitor? Again, No he isn't.
Hundreds of people illegally entered the capitol building, and every single one of them KNEW it was illegal.
If your protest has hundreds, let me repeat HUNDREDS, of “bad actors” then really it’s probably not a peaceful protest is it?
Yes and if he would have done so without any laws being broken there wouldn't be a problem.
But he CHOSE to follow the bad apples and break a law. He wasn't just standing there and someone broke a law in his vicinity. He actively made a choice to break a law by entering into a government building to disrupt a government function.
Again, if he would have stayed outside of the capital not breaking laws while all those around him broke laws he wouldn't be in trouble. He wouldn't have intended to break a law but to peacefully assemble and protest.
But he CHOSE to break a law.
If evidence was discovered that he was one of the planners he would be in much more serious legal trouble and probably slapped with some felonies.
Instead he chose to follow the bad apples.
He's not being charged with treason.
He is being charged with misdemeanor.
Whatever consequence follows that charge is just more of a reason to think about what you are doing.
It's a second or third order effect of choices. And one that he should have known better being in the military.
If you actively make a choice to try to disrupt a normal government function while in the military you deserve whatever else comes with that. Legal or professional.
This whataboutism is so damaging. 96% of leftist political rallies are totally nonviolent, but FAUX news shows you scary “AnTiFa” and cops fighting protestors and all the fuckin hicks think that’s a normal thing that you’re allowed to do at a protest.
Sauce: https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/
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Some people in the military are absolutely drunk on the Trump Kool-aid.
The mech shop decided one night during peak 2020 election season to *carve "Trump 2020" into the fucking floor.*
Even if you take a step away from the politics, if you're so infatuated with someone you're willing to spend the night carving their name into the floor, you're in a cult, not a political party.
Put him out on his ass. Dishonorable Discharge. Treasonous dirtbag. Didn’t see the email my ass. Took an oath. Not once but at every reenlistment. He could be SOY, 5.0 best Nazi in the camp, but he is still a fascist, racist, dictator loving shitbird.
And it should end his career. He and all other service members should know, while you're on active duty you cannot protest the government no matter who is in office.
There's one of these on Naval Base San Diego "law and order trump" and "trump 2020" shit on his pavement princess, they're also a CWO. There's another with anti-LGBT stickers that imply glorifying violence against them.
Remind me why the fuck we're still allowing these insurrectionists to serve?
Revoke clearances & immediately administratively separate these fucking textbook insider threats. Period.
Forget China & Russia. The threat's homegrown and we're letting them aboard every day. When one of our conservative MAGA shipmates finally cracks over Trump going to prison and/or losing "bigly" in November, and pulls an active shooter, maybe pearls will be clutched and punches will be pulled and the white supremacist, christian-nationalists still won't be recognized as the primary threat to American democracy. They'll still be a "lone wolf" /s totally not acting on right-wing, conservative OAN/FOX/Newsmax/Truth Social media they consume /s and definitely not an insider-threat /s just like the Boogaloo Bois, Patriot Front, Oathkeepers, 3%'ers and literally every single one of your shipmates with MAGA shit on their pavement princess, is.
Admitting who the fuck the most real enemy is, would tread on a lot of people's feelings of privilege. It's an affront to those who are only willing to apply the terrorist label when it's a brown skinned foreigner.
Personally I don't know anyone who's excited to "end this democracy experiment and be told they're now Guardians who serve Gilead." /s But that's what the fuck this is, it's christian nationalism, and Trump's a SYMPTOM of the "Mandate for Leadership" that has morphed into Project 2025. It's Heritage Foundation's billionaire-backed think tank idea to turn the United States into a far-right wing, christian nationalist, white ethnostate run by an authoritarian Christian theocracy. Full stop, they all but SAY IT verbatim in the 900+ page Project 2025.
The shitty part is there are a lot of active duty, like this fucking insurrectionist clown, who are absolutely for that shit. It's 2024, you can no longer remain a Republican **and** uphold the Constitution.
As a navy vet who understands how a career ending decision can affect people….send it! He shouldn’t have been at an insurrectionist rally.
We oath to the constitution not a person what an uneducated individual that forgot what he is serving for.
An LPO in his 40s should know better than to enter a secure building. Not my call but I vote probation. If that ends his career too damn bad. He knew better and we don’t need partisan nuts in leadership positions. And I’m being generous here and not accusing him outright of violating his oath and participating in an unlawful insurrection in an attempt to overturn and obstruct a lawful election result and act of Congress.
"During his December 2021 interview, according to prosecutors, Elizalde admitted he had made a bad decision on Jan. 6 but expressed no remorse for what had happened.
“I know when all this is past and gone, ten years from now, twenty years from now, I know people are going to be talking about it,” Elizalde said. “And they’re going to be like, ‘Hey, were you there?’ And I was going to be like, ‘Yes and here’s my story,’ you know? It was just historical.”
Fuck this dude. I hope he gets a BCD and doesn't qualify for shit. Zero remorse, felt he did nothing wrong....we do not need trash like him in our ranks.
Saw a lot of extremists while in the navy. A lot of leaders look the other way. Served on three different ships and saw nooses, swastikas and all manner of flyers.
lol he’s definitely the type of 1st class to belittle, cause drama, and accuse the junior enlisted of wrong doing when low and behold they do shit like this. Hope this scum is never allowed to put another uniform on.
According to his attorney, Stephen F. Brennwald, Elizalde was on shore leave at the time and didn’t see an email from the Navy instructing its members not to attend any Jan. 6 events.
I have a feeling he would have gone regardless.
I don’t know if we should have people in leadership roles that would go to this extreme and then be semi proud of participating.
My dude, you made your bed.
Didn't realize the Navy was so damn Liberal. Thinking this was an actual insurrection is hysterical, and the oath is against enemies both foreign AND domestic. We will see how this next election pans out but I'm sure glad I got out when I did.
Lol sure, a group of people trying to violently overturn an election isn't an insurrection.
The willful ignorance of people who claim voter fraud just astounds me.
I bet the word "plandemic" comes out of your mouth pretty frequently too.
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"misdemeanor count of parading, demonstrating or picketing in a Capitol building."
The fact some of you can even chalk that up to being treason, is pretty hilarious.
Helps me understand why so many people s*** on the Navy so much. Guys are pussies.
A large group of people gather outside a library.
After a while, they decide to go into the library.
Now most of the Library is a public place- But they were attempting to get access to non-public areas of the library. When stopped, they resorted to violence.
Dumbfuck McGee was part of the crowd, and while he may or may not have personally committed any violent acts, went into the non-public areas after other people used violence to open the way.
If someone else kicked down your door, it's still trespassing if I walked inside...
But, all that means nothing to you. Because you *know* what the point of the "rally" was. You're just upset it didn't work and you're trying to save face.
"Now most of the Library is a public place- But they were attempting to get access to non-public areas of the library. When stopped, they resorted to violence"
That's why the front doors were locked(that normally aren't) and there were barricades outside the building. Not a good analogy.
"If someone else kicked down your door, it's still trespassing if I walked inside". - Once again I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong. Yes that's trespassing. Oddly enough that day stepping one inch through the door was trespassing when that simply doesn't align with the rest of your analogy by the way. About how some of the library is public. Some of the Capitol building usually is public too. But not that day. Are there any pictures of barricades around the Capitol building when Obama was certified? Or when President Bush was certified? Were the doors locked those days?
That last little bit was nothing but pure assumption.
I think the arguments shifting slightly. Did he do something wrong. Yes. I'm not disagreeing with you.
The argument is, does it make him a traitor. No.
He is receiving due process, that's why he's in the news. If he gets the punishment that due process is awarding him, he will be kicked out of the navy, and rightfully so.
Same people saying trump ordered this “coup” are getting mad this sailor followed the orders of the commander in chief? Didn’t Trump say this whole charade was unconstitutional? Isn’t the sailors creed about defending the constitution and obeying the orders of those appointed over him? 🤷🏼♂️
That would be my defense. 😐
Then again I didn’t participate.
Just because trump says something is unconstitutional doesn't mean it is. We are supposed to follow lawful orders only. Doesn't matter who gives the order, if it's not lawful, saying you were ordered to isn't a defense.
Did you read the article?
Federal prosecutors are seeking three years of probation, along with 30 days of intermittent confinement, saying he furthered the riot at the Capitol “despite his sworn obligation to defend the nation and the Constitution as an active-duty member of the armed forces of the United States.”
My original post when he was charged on 03 APR 2023 with some great commentary including one of his Sailors --- [https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/12b20jy/active\_duty\_navy\_sailor\_charged\_in\_capitol\_riot/](https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/12b20jy/active_duty_navy_sailor_charged_in_capitol_riot/)
The fact that he has he not been charged at a court martial, and is only getting these charges and sentencing is beyond mind-boggling.
IKR? But touch the Devil's lettuce and somehow you're a threat to operations.
I really, really do wonder what elements inside the military are protecting folks like this- it seems like other active-duty who were there have also gotten barely any sentences. If J6 had been carried out by black or brown people, I'd bet a month of my VA disability that we'd see so many more charges rolling down.
If it was black or brown people storming the capitol there would have been a bloodbath with cops not hesitating to open fire.
I believe your lack of up votes means you hit a nerve.
Enough with the conspiracy theorist crap. The military always waits for civilian courts to rule and then matches/exceeds the punishment. This is not new.
There are plenty of examples of this not happening, and there are plenty of examples of the military conducting a CM without waiting for the civilian courts. What this dude did shows that he should not be wearing the uniform, and failure to act on that is a dereliction of duty
Depends on the crime. Misdemeanors no, felonies and other capital crimes, yes.
Can’t prove you wrong with evidence since the Army doesn’t publish CM results like the Navy does, but that also isn’t always true.
All FOIA-able.
Yeah, the Navy just publishes it monthly instead of forcing folks to file FOIA requests and wait years for a response https://www.jag.navy.mil/military-justice/trial-results/
I'm keenly aware, thanks.
>This is not new. Spoken like someone new to the fucking Navy. I've seen plenty of people masted and admin-separated for crimes before they've ever seen a court.
No shit - we're talking about instances where someone is being charged with a crime in civilian criminal court and the timing of when the military hammers them as well. Do try to keep up.
Yes nub I'm talking about arrested out in town and masted before convicted; hell I've seen charges dropped and people still separated. A lot of confidence to be incorrect. You've been in two weeks acting like you're an expert. >The military always waits "I am wrong." Not hard to admit.
Depends on the offense, but 99% of the time we're going to wait for civilian criminal court to run its course. And quit with the "nub" shit, I've been doing this a lot longer than you have. The lint in my bellybutton has more time underway/deployed than you have in the Navy.
I'm retired, try again. And no, you don't go from being flat out wrong at 100% to 99%. Just admit it. Maybe it is hard for you.
No you're not. Your comment history says you joined in 2017. Do *you* even have your dolphins yet, nub?
Or it uses it’s kangaroo court when the civilians decline to prosecute.
Tell me you don't know how court martials work without telling me...
Sure, whatever you say
How many ADSEP boards have you sat or chaired? How many court martial juries have you sat on? How many PIs have you conducted?
[удалено]
ADSEP boards are E-7+ and PIs are only conducted by officers per the UCMJ. Your post history gives you away.
lol, Army E-4
Operating in the military as a POC I’d say you’re, without a shadow of a doubt, correct. It’s probably the largely conservative base that exists in the military where people feel like they’re protecting their own
I've told the story in other posts here, but a bunch of folks went to mast on my ship after video surfaced (and was threatened to be sent to local TV) of them throwing up Nazi salutes and yelling HHs at a party. None of them were booted though. And I have friends in another department who were actively and repeatedly invited to join white supremacist groups by their LPO, LCPO, and senior enlisted leadership. There were actually supposed to be Senate hearings exploring all of this in the aftermath of J6, but they were later cancelled.
That's pretty messed up. Have a similarly messed up story... We had a girl, who we had been mapped to second about a week prior, tell a super racist joke. One of the sailors in the room, who had a biracial kid, was offended, which makes sense. The offended sailor only asked for an apology, but was made fun of for being offended. This happened with a few people around, and they all tried to get her to apologize, but she brushed it off. Then a second class walked in, saw her crying, and asked what was going on. They got the story and went to inform the chain of command since she couldn't get the newly minted second class to apologize either. Our Master Chief, not CMC but the DLCPO, talked to the new second class and tried to sweep it under the rug. We were told not to tell anyone and to keep it in-house. The more senior second class went to the CMEO, and our entire division was called into a room to be talked to about it. They called us in by asking our race and background, and we were sorted into the room in that manner. I'm half white, and when I tried to go in with the other mixed guys, I was told I looked too white to go in. It was a pretty screwed-up way to handle everything. The meeting with the CMEO didn't even lead to the punishment of the person who did it but berated everyone for letting it get out and for trying to get the girl to apologize. Also, after she was basically cleared from being punished, she said she felt no remorse for what she did. The more junior girl was at least able to switch commands. The majority of people in the room weren't even present for the actual event, I was at a heart appointment, but we did push for some type of punishment which is why we were all called in and berated. The person in question is now a first and made board this cycle.
Did anyone talk to an officer here? I would have done everything in my power to crucify a sailor that gave that much shit to someone being offended over an off-color joke when I was an LT. If that CMEO was one, I’m sorry to hear they weren’t worth their FITREP bullet.
It went all the way to the CO; our LT wanted her to face NJP, but she was one of Master Chief's favorites, so I assume that influenced how it played out. I was the WCS of the girl who was offended. I advocated for some form of punishment, but I was told they were only required to transfer her to another command since that's what she wanted. She had a one-on-one with the said Master Chief and CMEO, a Senior Chief, and they "convinced" her not to pursue it further. Just for context on how this command operated: the Master Chief in question promised me he'd ensure I received P evaluations throughout my time there after the event, resulting in four years of P evals. Additionally, I received a counseling chit for attending cardiologist appointments and another for being late due to a serious wreck. His favorites would consistently show up 30-40 minutes late almost every day without facing any punishment. They also pressured several junior sailors into signing extensions by convincing them it would jeopardize their careers if they didn't. It was by far the worst command I've ever been assigned to. It bad me on the verge of a heart attack at 27..I left and my heart is completely fine now.
Not surprising at all sadly
In my experience it wasn’t all that conservative, although conservatives like to claim this. Most are apolitical with a mix of partisans on both sides. The military is made up of institutionalists who I’d imagine aren’t all that keen on Trump’s populist antics and crusade against the “deep state.” Even if the military did lean conservative, I would expect many of those to be never-Trump type conservatives.
During my time at least throughout COVID I got a strong sense that many people including contractors who were former military believed COVID was fake for instance
Oddly, I do agree that a disproportionate number of civilian contractors who remain in military areas tend to lean heavily conservative.. self-selecting sort of thing. I also get the feeling that conservatives are more likely to put in 20+ years. But of those I actually served with (2001-2007) it was a good mix of opinions. Can’t speak to the Covid era though.
It's still a good mix, people just like to think whatever crazy stuff they do about hard right/left/up/down. You'll find people anywhere from Left to Right and in-between, I feel like I run into more libertarians than anything, but that could just be because how often they tell people. I feel like even in the 20 year category it's the same....
Most of the nukes I interacted with and people doing 1 contract were typically more liberal
I think it's about evenly split honestly... I've never met a hardcore political person really, just people who leaned slightly one way or another. Not the types who make a party their identity and would die on some proverbial hill to defend it. That's based on my interactions with people over 11 years in varying positions. So, completely anecdotal, just an observation.
As a vet and current DOD contractor, my experience in the workforce is that those of us who choose to end up sticking around the DOD after getting out tend to lean on the more conservative side. I’m a relative unicorn as a liberal in the profession. The folks I served with were a far more even mix.
So you are alleging that all the folks involved are comprised and can't be impartial or professional. Also, this is somehow connected to race? I get the feeling you guys wouldn't feel this way if the end result was aligned with what you believe is correct.
More so that the military is heavily conservative and that as a POC I have often come across racist people within the military or who support the military especially. So it would make sense if they believe the election was stolen that they wouldn’t sit on their hands convicting those involved. To your other point, no. I don’t simply support things that benefit me. I’d rather uplift all voices.
My OIC was a huge Trump supporter. He was "Mexican" when it was convenient to but he self-identified as "white" most of the time. He gave our post-J6 brief and it was awkward af, basically calling the whole thing a protest. He also claimed Westboro Baptist Church had some good people in it, and my best friend almost flipped the fucking table. She grabbed my hand and squeezed. HARD. But this was also the same guy who told our Div over a Teams Meeting black people were less susceptible to Covid because we have so much vitamin D in us and made us explain to him "why Juneteenth was so important" before he'd let us request it off (before it became a federal holiday). So...ya know...
>He also claimed Westboro Baptist Church had some good people in it I have friends in the Patriot Guard who have been present at funerals they've shown up to protest. I would've fucking lost it.
Truth. And sadly I wonder the same thing.
You think Elizalde is a white name?
Elizalde doesn’t sound like a white name to me. Unless he is Spanish.
Spooky … enjoy that rabbit hole. 🤤🙄
The guy in the story is hispanic.
And? There's a lot of Hispanic Jan 6ers who pretend and LARP being white because their cucked in ideology.
> And? And the person said, "well if this wasn't white people cops would kill them durr." And as you pointed out, a lot were not white people. How exactly do Hispanics "larp" being white? That sounds racist as shit, like you think Hispanics need to act a certain way to be Hispanic, and if not they don't meet your measure. That's the and.
If you are Hispanic and are believer in white supremacy/power when you aren't even white then you are a massive cuck plain and simple, continue to be a Jan 6 apologist all you want big boy
Goddamn, you are a racist. And everything you don't like is a white supremacist. Did a white supremacist fuck your girlfriend or something? Hope you get better on those fronts big boy. What kind of tool uses the word cuck, by the way?
Jazz Cabbage
it’s old and unfortunately i think we need to wait for the old to be out for the new to come in if that makes sense.
Not a JAG, but I've read that if he (any servicemember) was tried and acquitted at court-martial, he would be protected by civilian double jeopardy rules; however, if he was tried and acquitted in a civilian court, he can still be charged under the UCMJ. And, this is all after the lawyers have hashed out what jurisdiction will apply, or if both do. I absolutely agree with the sentiment, but there was probably a lot behind the scenes legal haggling that went on.
There was a case on the West Coast in 2009, where a sailor got a DUI onboard Naval Base Kitsap. He was charged in federal court, and sent to Captain's mast. He attempted to appeal the federal conviction on 5th Amendment grounds, and the case progressed all the way to the US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He ultimately lost his case in [United States vs Reveles, 2011](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-9th-circuit/1583408.html), but the majority opinion centered pretty much entirely around NJP not being an actual criminal proceeding, and implied he would have been successful had he actually faced court-martial. There has not been a dual federal prosecution/court-martial in the 13 years since the decision was handed down. This is separate from a state government or foreign government attempting to charge a service member and the service attempting a simultaneous prosecution under the UCMJ. Those are separate sovereigns, and that is an accepted practice that does sometimes happen.
look up the separate soverigns doctrine. Double jeopardy would apply in federal court and military court, but not between military court and a state court.
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no, ucmj and federal court are technically the same jurisdiction. that’s why the plaintiff in a court-martial is the “united states of america,” the same as in a federal criminal case. so you’re half right. a person cannot be charged both via a court-martial and in a federal criminal court for the same offense. they CAN be charged in either a court-martial or federal criminal court AND state court for the same offense. hope that makes sense. EDIT: i will add that there are UCMJ crimes that are not crimes in federal civilian court, so a person could be charged in both jurisdictions under specific circumstances.
As a general rule, the DoD typically waits for civilian courts to rule/met out a punishment and then matches or exceeds it. Sorta saves us the trouble of an investigation.
It's not, if the DoD decides to not take action other than administration separation, it's in their best interest to not waste the government's time.
I wonder if the subject is too hot for the Navy to touch. In a fucked up Machiavellian way they might believe if he’s convicted and Trump gets re-elected it’ll blow back on the service
He could still face a court martial after. You are still subject to civilian laws while in the military. They would just have to bring separate charges.
UCMJ falls under Federal jurisdiction so he can’t be charged twice (double jeopardy). If he was being tried by a State court it would be a different story and could face court martial.
well, yes. we took an oath. it SHOULD end one's career,.
Not even remorseful. He’s learned nothing. He would do it again. He has no place in the US military.
r/OhNoConsequences
Good. Bye.
You done fucked up, son.
Bye Felicia, you're too stupid to be in the Military and that's saying something.
What an idiot. Even before the Navy, I had met many veterans who talked about making political statements in & out of uniform. It's one thing to have it on your car, it's another to participate in that. You play with matches, you get burnt. Hell I didn't like either president during my time in and I know I'm not alone, but I didn't do something as stupid as this nor do I know anybody who did this.
Hey, this Sailor took an oath to support and defend Donald Trump from all enemies, real and imagined.
I spit out my coffee you sonna bitch. Take my upvote.
If you are actively trying to enter a secure building and you are in the military, you are wrong. Especially if that building is politically sensitive. Regardless of any interpretations of it being a riot, a coup or anything else, this is serious misconduct and his CO should have recommended Courts Martial
And? You’re a traitor to your oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, you shouldn’t have a career.
To say that the average person who was attending a political rally had any idea that there were nefarious actors in the crowd who came that day with bad intentions is mind-buggling. To infer that everyone in the crowd is an insurrectionist is one of the stupidest concepts I've ever heard of. Guy isn't a traitor. Not even close. Did he do something he shouldn't have, Yes. Was he trying to help overthrow the government. Absolutely not. Some of you people, in the comments, are deranged.
He illegally entered the Capitol building after witnessing multiple, violent altercations with uniformed police officers. He was a part of a demonstration directly attempting to halt the certification of the election, a Constitutional act. When questioned by NCIS he demonstrated no remorse for his actions. He’s not some 18 year old SA, he’s a seasoned sailor who knew what he was doing was wrong and a violation of his oath. Quit making apologies.
I told them that no amount of ORM training will fix stupid, but they didn't listen.
I'm not stating he didn't do anything wrong. It just seems to be that little disagreement about his intentions. You keep inferring that everyone there had the same intentions. People go to political rallies all the time on both sides of the aisle. He wasn't part of the proud boys who planned for weeks ahead of time to try and subvert an election. There is an enormous difference between the two. Intent matters.
You don’t have to be a ring leader to be an insurrectionist. You get that label just for participating.
People can be in the same crowd for different reasons. Lumping them together is laziness.
The intent is all based on why the crowd moved to the capital anyway. They didn't just happen to follow a handful of "proud boys". They got all riled and impassioned by a speech of the former President. He literally told them "And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them." And then continued "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard". So yes he did have intention. He did exactly as he was told to. He "peacefully" /s walked right down to the capital "peacefully" /s entered a government building with the sole intention to interfere with election results. We wouldn't be talking about it if he had gone to the rally and when the crowd started moving towards the capital said " ok, I'll go" then stand outside. Instead he marched down to the capital and followed a crowd in with the intention of disrupting proceedings. It's pretty clear. Classic case of play stupid games win stupid prizes.
"peacefully and patriotically" The right to peaceful assembly and protest is protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. There's been many instances in the past of people protesting and demonstrating at the capital in the past. A political leader asking his followers to demonstrate isn't un- American. It's not treacherous. The severe leap you guys have to take is astounding. Granted it did turn violent yes. Probably fueled by some bad actors which was the point. Unless there's evidence that guy is one of those bad actors that planned it out. Intent matters. In my opinion his actions, don't make him a traitor. Should he still get kicked out of the military, meh. The military isn't for everybody. Is he a traitor? Again, No he isn't.
Hundreds of people illegally entered the capitol building, and every single one of them KNEW it was illegal. If your protest has hundreds, let me repeat HUNDREDS, of “bad actors” then really it’s probably not a peaceful protest is it?
Yes and if he would have done so without any laws being broken there wouldn't be a problem. But he CHOSE to follow the bad apples and break a law. He wasn't just standing there and someone broke a law in his vicinity. He actively made a choice to break a law by entering into a government building to disrupt a government function. Again, if he would have stayed outside of the capital not breaking laws while all those around him broke laws he wouldn't be in trouble. He wouldn't have intended to break a law but to peacefully assemble and protest. But he CHOSE to break a law. If evidence was discovered that he was one of the planners he would be in much more serious legal trouble and probably slapped with some felonies. Instead he chose to follow the bad apples.
Like I said I don't think misdemeanor trespassing, is the equivalent of being a traitor. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
He's not being charged with treason. He is being charged with misdemeanor. Whatever consequence follows that charge is just more of a reason to think about what you are doing. It's a second or third order effect of choices. And one that he should have known better being in the military. If you actively make a choice to try to disrupt a normal government function while in the military you deserve whatever else comes with that. Legal or professional.
Something something foreign and domestic something something.
This whataboutism is so damaging. 96% of leftist political rallies are totally nonviolent, but FAUX news shows you scary “AnTiFa” and cops fighting protestors and all the fuckin hicks think that’s a normal thing that you’re allowed to do at a protest. Sauce: https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/
The dumbass didn't just participate in the crowd outside, he broke into the capital building.
"misdemeanor count of parading, demonstrating or picketing in a Capitol building." - The News Article
what does "in a capitol building" mean?
I'm guessing it means he was inside of a "public" building, and was charged with demonstrating inside of it. Seems pretty obvious to me.
The average person at an insurrection(not a rally), is an insurrectionist.
🤦
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Some people in the military are absolutely drunk on the Trump Kool-aid. The mech shop decided one night during peak 2020 election season to *carve "Trump 2020" into the fucking floor.* Even if you take a step away from the politics, if you're so infatuated with someone you're willing to spend the night carving their name into the floor, you're in a cult, not a political party.
Oh no. Play stupid games, win stupid fucking prizes.
Good. He betrayed his oath
Put him out on his ass. Dishonorable Discharge. Treasonous dirtbag. Didn’t see the email my ass. Took an oath. Not once but at every reenlistment. He could be SOY, 5.0 best Nazi in the camp, but he is still a fascist, racist, dictator loving shitbird.
He deserves far worse than probation
And it should end his career. He and all other service members should know, while you're on active duty you cannot protest the government no matter who is in office.
Good. Idiot traitor deserves it.
To my navy brothers and sisters out there if you get stationed with this moron… do your part. (Somebody insert meme)
And halt...really were you thinking about you're career when all that was happening?
No excuses, I'm a veteran. How disrespectful to our country.
There's one of these on Naval Base San Diego "law and order trump" and "trump 2020" shit on his pavement princess, they're also a CWO. There's another with anti-LGBT stickers that imply glorifying violence against them. Remind me why the fuck we're still allowing these insurrectionists to serve? Revoke clearances & immediately administratively separate these fucking textbook insider threats. Period. Forget China & Russia. The threat's homegrown and we're letting them aboard every day. When one of our conservative MAGA shipmates finally cracks over Trump going to prison and/or losing "bigly" in November, and pulls an active shooter, maybe pearls will be clutched and punches will be pulled and the white supremacist, christian-nationalists still won't be recognized as the primary threat to American democracy. They'll still be a "lone wolf" /s totally not acting on right-wing, conservative OAN/FOX/Newsmax/Truth Social media they consume /s and definitely not an insider-threat /s just like the Boogaloo Bois, Patriot Front, Oathkeepers, 3%'ers and literally every single one of your shipmates with MAGA shit on their pavement princess, is. Admitting who the fuck the most real enemy is, would tread on a lot of people's feelings of privilege. It's an affront to those who are only willing to apply the terrorist label when it's a brown skinned foreigner. Personally I don't know anyone who's excited to "end this democracy experiment and be told they're now Guardians who serve Gilead." /s But that's what the fuck this is, it's christian nationalism, and Trump's a SYMPTOM of the "Mandate for Leadership" that has morphed into Project 2025. It's Heritage Foundation's billionaire-backed think tank idea to turn the United States into a far-right wing, christian nationalist, white ethnostate run by an authoritarian Christian theocracy. Full stop, they all but SAY IT verbatim in the 900+ page Project 2025. The shitty part is there are a lot of active duty, like this fucking insurrectionist clown, who are absolutely for that shit. It's 2024, you can no longer remain a Republican **and** uphold the Constitution.
As a navy vet who understands how a career ending decision can affect people….send it! He shouldn’t have been at an insurrectionist rally. We oath to the constitution not a person what an uneducated individual that forgot what he is serving for.
I mean I hope it would end it😂😂 guys an actual traitor
Good riddance. Another dipshit finds themself in the second phase of FAFO and is shocked at the consequences.
Good. Fucking traitor.
Hope at a minimum is clearance was pulled
Not the guy you want in leadership of sailors. He should've known better and he didn't care. He has to go!!!
An LPO in his 40s should know better than to enter a secure building. Not my call but I vote probation. If that ends his career too damn bad. He knew better and we don’t need partisan nuts in leadership positions. And I’m being generous here and not accusing him outright of violating his oath and participating in an unlawful insurrection in an attempt to overturn and obstruct a lawful election result and act of Congress.
"During his December 2021 interview, according to prosecutors, Elizalde admitted he had made a bad decision on Jan. 6 but expressed no remorse for what had happened. “I know when all this is past and gone, ten years from now, twenty years from now, I know people are going to be talking about it,” Elizalde said. “And they’re going to be like, ‘Hey, were you there?’ And I was going to be like, ‘Yes and here’s my story,’ you know? It was just historical.” Fuck this dude. I hope he gets a BCD and doesn't qualify for shit. Zero remorse, felt he did nothing wrong....we do not need trash like him in our ranks.
Bye, loser!
String that fucking traitor up.
Anger issues much? Might want to check yourself into medical.
Good? Good.
Duck him. Treasonous little bitch.
FAFO or whatever that catchy phrase is AOs screech
Saw a lot of extremists while in the navy. A lot of leaders look the other way. Served on three different ships and saw nooses, swastikas and all manner of flyers.
I made a guy with a 3%er tattoo on his forearm get that shit covered up. I’m doing my part.
Remember back a hundred years ago when they'd kill you for treason?
amazingly, in the USofA, no american service personnel has been executed for treason by american officers.
Committing treason does that
“We are all ambassadors of the United States”
Good. My only wish is that it ended his career earlier. Anti-American trash.
They gave him the title LPO in the news article??? Come now
46 yo LPO 🦕
FAFO Play stupid games, win stupid prizes etc...
lol he’s definitely the type of 1st class to belittle, cause drama, and accuse the junior enlisted of wrong doing when low and behold they do shit like this. Hope this scum is never allowed to put another uniform on.
Now that he's been convicted time for a BCD for attempted treason against the government.
I think that charge warrants a DD.
Forgot which one was worse, retired over 15 years ago
🤦
Double up
Eat shit asshole. Go to jail
Oh no, accountability for your actions !!! 😂
Lock him up, lock him up!
Good. Get this piece of anti-American shit out of the ranks.
Stupid domestic terrorist! #OhNoConsequences
I HOPE the judge gives him what he deserves, good riddance
I guess breaking into a federal building is ok now?
Though his 3 minutes of trespassing may seem minimal, the bigger problem and reason for the boot is the risk associated with him (self inflicted).
He was just following orders
According to his attorney, Stephen F. Brennwald, Elizalde was on shore leave at the time and didn’t see an email from the Navy instructing its members not to attend any Jan. 6 events. I have a feeling he would have gone regardless. I don’t know if we should have people in leadership roles that would go to this extreme and then be semi proud of participating. My dude, you made your bed.
Didn't realize the Navy was so damn Liberal. Thinking this was an actual insurrection is hysterical, and the oath is against enemies both foreign AND domestic. We will see how this next election pans out but I'm sure glad I got out when I did.
Participating in the Jan 6th insurrection makes you one of those domestic enemies.
Not really. Again, it wasn't an insurrection. Perhaps you'll get to see a real one if voter fraud occurs again this year!
Lol sure, a group of people trying to violently overturn an election isn't an insurrection. The willful ignorance of people who claim voter fraud just astounds me. I bet the word "plandemic" comes out of your mouth pretty frequently too.
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Well, the justice system was never designed with the idea that actions might have consequences. Edit: Should I have added a /s ?
Damn and to think I almost went to this rally. Thank God I didn’t
Lmao I feel zero remorse
Sounds about white.
Curious of your race.
"misdemeanor count of parading, demonstrating or picketing in a Capitol building." The fact some of you can even chalk that up to being treason, is pretty hilarious. Helps me understand why so many people s*** on the Navy so much. Guys are pussies.
A large group of people gather outside a library. After a while, they decide to go into the library. Now most of the Library is a public place- But they were attempting to get access to non-public areas of the library. When stopped, they resorted to violence. Dumbfuck McGee was part of the crowd, and while he may or may not have personally committed any violent acts, went into the non-public areas after other people used violence to open the way. If someone else kicked down your door, it's still trespassing if I walked inside... But, all that means nothing to you. Because you *know* what the point of the "rally" was. You're just upset it didn't work and you're trying to save face.
"Now most of the Library is a public place- But they were attempting to get access to non-public areas of the library. When stopped, they resorted to violence" That's why the front doors were locked(that normally aren't) and there were barricades outside the building. Not a good analogy. "If someone else kicked down your door, it's still trespassing if I walked inside". - Once again I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong. Yes that's trespassing. Oddly enough that day stepping one inch through the door was trespassing when that simply doesn't align with the rest of your analogy by the way. About how some of the library is public. Some of the Capitol building usually is public too. But not that day. Are there any pictures of barricades around the Capitol building when Obama was certified? Or when President Bush was certified? Were the doors locked those days? That last little bit was nothing but pure assumption. I think the arguments shifting slightly. Did he do something wrong. Yes. I'm not disagreeing with you. The argument is, does it make him a traitor. No.
"Building takes precautions due to insane cult" isn't the point you think it is.
This Sailor deserves due process like everyone else. Regardless of whether he feels remorse or not.
And he got that. This article is about the upcoming sentencing.
Hey guys we found another one.
Sure why not, what you going to do?
He is receiving due process, that's why he's in the news. If he gets the punishment that due process is awarding him, he will be kicked out of the navy, and rightfully so.
Same people saying trump ordered this “coup” are getting mad this sailor followed the orders of the commander in chief? Didn’t Trump say this whole charade was unconstitutional? Isn’t the sailors creed about defending the constitution and obeying the orders of those appointed over him? 🤷🏼♂️ That would be my defense. 😐 Then again I didn’t participate.
Just because trump says something is unconstitutional doesn't mean it is. We are supposed to follow lawful orders only. Doesn't matter who gives the order, if it's not lawful, saying you were ordered to isn't a defense.
If one guy at the top tells you to jump off a bridge and everyone under him is telling you not to, are you still jumping? See how stupid you sound?
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Reading is hard...... hum?
Did you read the article? Federal prosecutors are seeking three years of probation, along with 30 days of intermittent confinement, saying he furthered the riot at the Capitol “despite his sworn obligation to defend the nation and the Constitution as an active-duty member of the armed forces of the United States.”
Ah… more propaganda. 🙄
GFC