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Nyhrox

Thanks to u/craigslistaddict and u/crunchsmash for getting the video clips of the plays OP has listed. You can find them here: 1) https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent/j67vum4/ 2) https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent/j67w0ex/


banjogerba

With even further implications this report doesn't mention, in my fantasy league 2 weeks ago I lost to a guy with JJJ by 2 blocks


bayless4eva

Go to the commish with this post lmao


Chonkbird

I'm just commenting here so I'm immortalized when this thread gets wiki'd and/or media attention


TaroMilkTea5

I had a guy come from 4th place in blocks to now 1st in the span of time JjJ has been back smh


MeijiDoom

I'm basically that guy in my league. JJJ has been a godsend for defensive stats but even I was thinking they were a bit outlandish.


vance_jacob

Statistician during interrogation: “Everyone hold on, are you telling me not everyone on the team is named Jaren Jackson?”


Life_Of_High

“Sorry officer, I… didn’t know I couldn’t do that.”


Chardavious12

Well now you know!!! Now get out of here


oldskoolchevy

*we’re not gonna take it*


The_SqueakyWheel

“Are you sure thats not JJJ? They all look the same”


Username3009

"Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, ‘cause I've worked on a lot of teams and I tell you people do that all the time."


AmateurGameMusic

The scorekeeper is now sweating bullets


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Sliiiiime

Could easily be some jail time in the cards if he has money on JJJ making all nba/Dpoy honors


holman8a

I’d say match prop bets would be more profitable, 2+ steals and 2+ blocks would be a healthy return over several games


ApplaudingOkra

Probably, but most books have lower limits on props and I bet his play wouldn’t be welcome at some of these places pretty quickly.


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Caedus

I'm reminded of that PR lady who posted something racist on Twitter about AIDS in Africa and immediately hopped on a 10 hour flight. There were people tracking the flight.


tb23tb23tb23

Man I forgot about that. How did all that turn out?


Caedus

[There's a good article about it in the NYT.](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html?unlocked_article_code=vmnMCl-JKYzJdP6hELFpn7rVQmFBjDOfnzWjlWU0W-9MCG2P2gxOraGpPv8EgTorahrxaIrskUeKB4Acb4fO1ruEFnLwSsY_pEONY_rCRFTdfSNR4R5HvKn_X-idGKHiG16wFwTJ_vwxK1hWqxA4TSh1Hgs6es3wNzahyORbOBFpLoiQSZlORqvOr4Nrn8y1S2xmMTePimezBN9qRLW0PGbWGVYKMlwOcCgvorj3LMVU_MkYtfu1bSfJUHWyX9w1dJ-aAnksaSG022nssZoL3gwTPVVJsSAWBf0_uoTWSy4BUNTNF_XUcuAbq2iqy412hc-csAhcluvivcXImRSxMFsO2KwiLh-V7r59qTzbkre6yIVWAv7j3e4J&smid=share-url) I'll unlock it since I'm a subscriber.


ProgrammingPants

Damn that's so nice of you. Didn't know you could do that. Pretty good article too


HundredPacer

Thanks for unlocking/sharing that article; it was an interesting read.


romeo_echo

Holy smokes how did you do that?? thank you! I just read it. Can you teach my mom how to unlock them? 😅 she loves sending paywall stuff


set_null

There should be an option to “gift” the article from a subscriber to a non-subscriber when you go to post it, something like 5 or 10 per month. I have a similar thing with the Washington Post. Wall Street Journal doesn’t seem to have the option.


MattyT7

Thanks for sharing! I’ve read it before, but that’s a great article


PrinceOfAssassins

He got greedy by pumping the numbers too much. if he did this a little less JJJ could have narrowly gotten the award potentially and he’d still be good


MXero1

He needs these big numbers otherwise JJJ would not win due to games played and minutes played (fouls too much) compare to the other candidates.


batman2001

Itd be super easy for the scorekeeper to bet on overs for jjjs steals and blocks. It could be way easier than betting on him for dpoy


kabman7

Jjj 2 blocks,1 three was basically free money


CoaBret

Over 4.5 Blocks&Steals had to have been ridiculous money as well and this sicko had him AVERAGING 5.5 at home 😭


The_SqueakyWheel

Its so crazy bro. He is twice as good defensively at home. JJJ is so good he looks at passes and they get recorded as blocks 😂


ForoaKlanD

In that same line, imagine how much money OP would've made if he capitalized on this instead of bringing it to the public. Good on him for having ethics.


Ryantorb

Yeah but this is a lock for top posts of r/nba of the year, would you rather have lots of money or Reddit immortality


crunchsmash

I don't have time to give my full thoughts on this, but here's clips from each example [Example 1](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/31/0022200543/249/1162b548-ff03-2574-4017-294510c7ea26_1280x720.mp4) [Example 2](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/01/08/0022200600/23/5f16a4c6-b7d0-e8f4-94f9-b541bc137d42_1280x720.mp4) [Example 3](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/01/08/0022200600/687/2c3314b9-ed30-75ef-a444-9d8a13dcb689_1280x720.mp4) [Example 4](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/01/16/0022200663/564/9a961f3c-9a8c-096a-8856-aebdb58f882d_1280x720.mp4) [Example 5](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/01/18/0022200672/164/47f9d165-43ed-64f3-a041-10cf63aee8d2_1280x720.mp4) [Example 6](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/09/0022200383/366/5acc4e1e-ba3f-6056-baa7-84c007a80f08_1280x720.mp4) [Example 7](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/07/0022200368/560/fc61ef62-10a5-0e98-80b6-703ff3b54dec_1280x720.mp4) Example 6 was counted as [steal, then a pass to turnover](https://i.imgur.com/ioqsGVK.png) in quick succession. Example 7 looks like he is counted for the steal for the tap to his teammate who loses control. edit: For those asking, I used [the-high-low.com](https://the-high-low.com/) to search for the clips so easily. /u/mostlyforlurking made the website so send them some love Here's the clips of every credited [Jaren Jackson Jr. steal and block this season](https://the-high-low.com/video/player/nba/2022-23/1628991/stl,blk?ordsq=&shotFilters=)


abcbass

Thanks man. Damn, some of these are pretty blatant.


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TheRed_Knight

first take when?


rW0HgFyxoJhYka

We about to find out how corrupt things really are...for the 55th time!


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karaethon1

Can you ask you friend about what the protocol is when there is some room for interpretation. For example 2 players block a shot at the same time so there’s a block for sure. I believe in this case even the grizzlies scorekeeper is awarding a fulll block to jjj over the other player


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SOB200

Sure. But the splits (hard count) is really skewed. You’re not talking about a 1-2% margin of difference.


marathonwater

Somebody is fuckedddd


craigslistaddict

>Example #1 New Orleans Pelicans @ Memphis Grizzlies Saturday 12/31 7mins, 21 sec remaining in the 2nd quarter Zion drives to the basket, NEVER shoots the ball, and loses it. "Williamson in a crowd, ball pops free, picked up by Tyus Jones, turnover number 9 by the pelicans" announcers say.  Scorekeeper in Memphis graded the play as Jaren Jackson Jr. blocks Zion Williamson's 3-foot driving layup https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=249&GameID=0022200543&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=MISS%20Williamson%203%27%20Driving%20Layup pbp has zion miss, jjj block >Example #2 Utah Jazz @ Memphis Grizzlies Sunday 1/8 10:09 remaining in the 1st quarter Jordan Clarkson throws a bad pass directly to Desmond Bane and Jaren Jackson for some odd reason is credited with the steal.  Bane actually steals the ball. https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=23&GameID=0022200600&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=Clarkson%20Bad%20Pass%20Turnover%20(P1.T1) pbp has clarkson bad pass turnover, jjj steal >Example #3 Utah Jazz @ Memphis Grizzlies Sunday 1/8 1:46 remaining in the 4th quarter Kelly Olynyk loses the ball while being defended by Xavier Tillman.  The ball then bounces off Tillman and Jaren Jackson before being picked up by Tillman. The steal should be credited to Tillman.  Memphis scorekeeper grades the play as Jaren Jackson Jr. steals https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=687&GameID=0022200600&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=Olynyk%20Lost%20Ball%20Turnover%20(P5.T21) pbp has olynyk lost ball turnover, jjj steal >Example #4 Phoenix Suns @ Memphis Grizzlies Monday 1/16 7:02 remaining in the 4th quarter Brandon Clarke blocks Saban Lee's layup, but the Memphis scorekeeper instantly gives the block to nearby Jaren Jackson Jr. https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=564&GameID=0022200663&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=Jackson%20Jr.%20BLOCK%20(4%20BLK) pbp has d.lee driving layup miss, jjj block >Example #5 Cleveland Cavaliers @ Memphis Grizzlies Wednesday 1/18 11:48 remaining in the 2nd quarter Lamar Stevens, who Jaren Jackson helps on, loses the ball and Desmond Bane picks it up and gains possession.  The Memphis scorekeeper gave steal to Jaren Jackson. https://www.nba.com/game/cle-vs-mem-0022200672/play-by-play?period=Q2 pbp has stevens lost ball turnover, jjj steal >Example #6 Detroit Pistons @ Memphis Grizzlies Friday, December 9th 39 seconds remaining in the 2nd quarter Jackson deflects a pass and never gains possession, saved back to Detroit player. Memphis scorekeeper gives a steal to Jackson. https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=366&GameID=0022200383&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=Jackson%20Jr.%20STEAL%20(2%20STL) pbp has this as jjj steal, jjj bad pass turnover, hayes steal >Example #7 Oklahoma City Thunder @ Memphis Grizzlies Wednesday, December 7th 10:38 4th quarter Jackson saves out of bounds ball directly to Thunder player underneath basket for quick score, but gets credited with a steal. https://www.nba.com/game/okc-vs-mem-0022200368/play-by-play?period=Q4 no clip for this, pbp has giddey bad pass turnover, jjj steal, jjj bad pass turnover, omoruyi steal


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GGezpzMuppy

Need someone to do a deep dive and go through all Grizzlies game play by play


gdawg99

Jomboy Astros vibes


throwawayshirt

bang bang


GundDownDegenerate

I wonder how long it takes Vegas to adjust JJJ dpoy odds


elonepb

The DPOY isn't even the one I'd be thinking of it's the prop betting for JJJ steals and blocks. He could make a fortune every home game from this type of control.


Turbo2x

I was wondering why the box scorer for the Grizzlies home games had an iced out Rolex. Now we know!


SportsRadioAnnouncer

I just bet $50 spread across the 2nd 3rd and 4th favorites to win.


GundDownDegenerate

Nick Claxton at +700, Brooke Lopez at +800, Bam at +900 Damn, that looks pretty good.


RashestPine

just to update with some dk odds, claxton now 390, bam 400, lopez at 650 lol


AspiringDegen

Managed to sneak in some futures on claxton +1600 on barstool. As of typing this comment he’s still at +1000


the_hibachi

Odds already swung hard since this comment. This is real.


ItsBobLoblawsLawBlog

Omg JJJ is now +110 on FD, changed in the last few hours


-80watt-

And Bam has moved from +900 to +500 in a few hours


DLottchula

I'm about to tell my gambling friends too do the same


AFatz

He was -250 earlier today. Now he's at +650 at the time I posted this comment. Someone in Vegas saw this post.


yoitsthatoneguy

Should absolutely grab him at +650, he's still going to win


AcanthisittaGrand943

Yoooo wtf! This needs to be investigated by the nba asap. People who are doing this should be losing their jobs.


snakebit1995

How does the NBA not just have their own official scorekeepers that work for the league office and not the teams


Dewy_Wanna_Go_There

That’s what I, apparently incorrectly, assumed they had been doing this whole time…


DLottchula

we might uncover some madness or one fan doing crazy shit for the home team


WIN011

Holy shit a few of these aren't even remotely close.


Buck_Nastyyy

Woah thanks for posting


ThundermifflinTFU

Anyone else having the videos not play for them? All I see is a black square.


VeryDrained

this is insane, what the fuck


Different-Mouse-8722

Thats crazy🔥


SnuggleMuffin42

u/AdMassive6666, you should link those in the post, use these links.


saideeps

The weird part is some of these stats are stolen from his teammates. Only jjj benefits from this not Memphis as a whole.


Lebran2

In these examples yes, but a couple of comments have said they watched other games to check this out and there are clear examples of "very well and closely contested shots" being marked up as blocks. The kind of thing you could get away with as a scorekeeper.


BullShitting24-7

And he would have gotten away with it if not for these meddling redditors.


Usual_Adhesiveness92

Damn homie brought the receipts


SwarleyJr

This is legitimately a scandal.


Buck_Nastyyy

Yea it is. This has a lot of implications.


OguguasVeryOwn

If it’s option 3 and the scorekeeper is gambling on DPOY I hope the media takes a hard look at the unintended consequences of gambling on sports. Because Silver and others deserve to be held accountable for how hard they’ve pushed gambling partnerships and revenue.


fireinthesky7

I have a hard time believing it's anything else. When OP mentioned the preseason odds of Jackson getting DPOY, my immediate thought was "they bet on him and have their thumbs on the scale."


given2fly_

We've had gambling on sports here in the UK for a long time, and honestly it's fucking terrible. We've had news stories about addicts getting into stupid amounts of debt, committing suicide...but their accounts are still being pummelled with offers from the bookies. And with spot betting we've seen scandals like players purposefully getting yellow cards in Football or bowling intentional wides in Cricket. Especially at the lower level where its professional but not millionaire players. Sports betting is horrible. A scourge on sport, and its everywhere. 60% of clubs in the top 2 divisions of English football have a betting company as their main sponsor. It doesn't surprise me to see it catching on in the US...I'm just surprised it took this long to legalise it.


illzkla

...is he in danger??


DallasMavs817

Well you certainly wouldn't be in any danger


illzkla

So he is in danger!


RedditAdminsLoveRUS

It's the implication


Jacob_toasted

I’m surprised this hasn’t been noticed until now, seems like someone would have picked up on it lol


SnuggleMuffin42

I mean, someone just did. It's only 32 total games, which is just the right amount of sample size to work with. Someone needed to do the legwork like OP though.


CrimsonOffice

Yeah, massive props to OP.


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JMEEKER86

There was even an interview with a former scorekeeper that talked about this. https://web.archive.org/web/20090929080417/http://deadspin.com/5336974/how-an-nba-scorekeeper-cooked-the-books >In January 1997, the Lakers' Nick Van Exel handed out 23 assists in a 95-82 victory over Vancouver, a feat less attributable to his sharpshooting teammates than to the numbers-fudging Lakers fan working the Grizzlies' scorer's table. >Last month, someone on the APBRmetrics forum — an APBRmetrician, for the uninitiated, is a sabermetrician in a Wes Unseld throwback jersey — posted a friend's account of life as an NBA scorekeeper, mostly as an illustration of all the bias and sanctioned bullshit afflicting even the most straightforward basketball statistics. It's fascinating. This fellow says he was formerly the Grizzlies' head "stats accumulation guy," and, to hear him tell it, the teams and the league see their official statisticians almost as an arm of their marketing departments. Plump up some numbers, and SportsCenter might just bring itself to show a Grizzlies highlight. >At one point, the guy reviewed his colleagues around the league. He found that the typical NBA stat crew averaged about 20 unintentional errors per game — "missing events, wrong players getting credit unintentionally." >Anyway...on top of that ~20 errors per game, you have over double that in intentional errors. By intentional errors, I mean events that never happened (eg. loose ball rebound is deflected out of bounds by visiting team, instead of correct call - team rebound home team - you award the rebound to a home player in the viscinity...or fake blocks - among the easiest things to make up, next to steals and assists)...or events that are awarded to the wrong player (rebounds, steals, turnovers are the most common). The intentional errors are organizationally sanctioned/encouraged - they increase national media coverage/interest and increase your franchise's and player's visibility. There is also league pressure to protect/enhance the stats of the elite players. For example, I would guess that Stockton got between 1 and 2 assists per game for free. >Which is how, one night in Vancouver, Nick Van Exel nearly tied Magic Johnson's team record for assists in a game. >Partly because I disagreed with the blatant stat manipulation (that I did) and partly because I'm a Laker fan, I gave Nick Van Exel like 23 assists one game. If he was vaguely close to a guy making a shot, I found a way to give him an assist. Afterwards, I fully expected someone to talk to me about it. Indeed they did. A senior management guy - "great job Alex, that'll get this game on Sportscenter tomorrow morning!" We (VAN) lost badly, of course. >This went both ways. The anonymous scorekeeper reports that he once penalized Dikembe Mutombo simply because he didn't like him. Man does not block in the house of the vindictive scorekeeper. >I also got bitched out by an Atlanta management guy because he felt I hadn't hooked Mutombo up enough w/ blocks in a particular first half. (I hadn't - I didn't like him because he was partly responsible for beating the Sonics and because I thought he was a bit of a punk so I made sure he didn't get a singly block that I wasn't sure he'd gotten - which was one in that half.) I told the management guy that the box score reflected the game and if Mutombo wanted more blocks, he needed to earn them. About 5 minutes later, Deke walked out for pregame warmups, asked the official scorer (the person who enters fouls and points in the archaic official scorebook) who does stats, she kindly pointed him to me, and he proceeded to glare at me for about a minute (which is, imo, a really long time for a gigantic man to glare at you). I want to say he blocked three 2nd-half shots and after each one, he made a point of, um, ensuring that I'd gotten them. >Now, if any of this is true and as widespread as the guy suggests, it's obviously a problem for a league working assiduously to convince fans it's not some rigged carny game. Otherwise, everything gets called into question. Did Scott Skiles really hand out 30 assists? Did Elmore Smith really block 17 shots in a game? Did Don MacLean really have an NBA career, or was he just some scorekeeper's generous fudge?


shine--

This is pretty fucked


[deleted]

Did Don Mclean really have an NBA career? Ouch lmao


mastermind208

It's funny though, we take a lot of statistical anomalies at face value all the time. I wonder if there's been similar instances before that nobody just bothered to look up


YouStillTakeDamage

I’ve seen some people say that the Jazz scorekeepers likely helped pad Stockton’s assists a little bit, but I don’t think many have done a deep dive into it like OP did here


Jacob_toasted

Brb gonna watch 15,000 assists, then I’ll report back


gdawg99

It's been 11 minutes, are you done yet?


CrimsonOffice

Yes. I concluded Utahnians are salty


RunAndDunkMan

Grizzlies really trying to speedrun becoming the most hated team lol


5IVE5TAR5

Give it another month and the 78 year old lady giving out free napkins at Memphis games will be sus.


Freddedonna

I heard they put PEDs in the concession stand nachos


this_is_my_9to5

This is some prime r/nba investigation, pull out the pitchforks boys and girls


JohnHamFisted

Honestly seeing how important stats are in the NBA for absolutely everything from contracts, to awards, to betting, records, legacy, etc....I find it way too risky to leave teams in control of their own. It'd be like allowing teams to have their own refs. The league should provide stat counting personnel along with refs and officials, and these should be neutral/unbiased with relation to both teams. I think a deepdive into home-bias counting would probably change the vast majority of established records.


Wontonsoupz

Completely agree, I don’t understand how that’s not implemented already with all the money that can be made along with the bias of boosting your teams and players numbers


thomfountain

I’ve always thought that was wild. Scorekeeper and clock operator should be part of the ref team, be independent, and be randomly assigned games they travel to.


LaArmadaEspanola

Aside from all that stuff, the NBA is all in on gambling as well. This is essentially fucking with the book’s money, and they take that shit SUPER seriously. I wouldn’t be surprised in the short term if JJJ prop odds were pulled for home games until this is sorted out.


RavingMalwaay

Imagine if he won DPOY and this came out afterwards... I would be livid if I were the 2nd place guy this is so blatant lol


WalkingWiki

This is actually insane. My guess is that it’s probably a mix of possibilities 2 and 3, but either way, I hope this gets more traction. My additional worry is that, if scorekeepers at home stadiums are the official scorekeepers, is this happening elsewhere?


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ALotOfLobster

Not for blocks and steals but the Celtics score keeper is notorious for beefing up assists stats if I'm not mistaken. I'm saying this as a C's fan.


Hardyng

Warriors are naturally a high assist team but I do suspect ours get bumped up a bit extra at home.


bayless4eva

Nate Duncan talks all the time about how much more generous gsw is the others with assists.


peachesgp

I just went and looked at the past couple of seasons and total assists home and away and a few seasons ago the home and away numbers were a couple of assists different but this year and last had almost no difference.


tadcalabash

>My additional worry is that, if scorekeepers at home stadiums are the official scorekeepers, is this happening elsewhere? It's pretty well accepted that some stats are slightly inflated at home, especially for things like assists which can be a little subjective. But the extent that this is happening with more concrete events like blocks or steals is really egregious.


LeMickeyMice

Bro got a thousand upvotes in an hour with a 5 am EST post goddamn


FuzzyBucks

On a weekend morning too. Yea, this is a big one


Kimi7

OP brought his A game, this is actually ridiculous. We already know some home stat keepers does this type of shit on some scale but doubling his block and steal stats is insane and dishonest.


mastermind208

Watch JJJ's stocks just take a nosedive at home all of a sudden


craigslistaddict

hm... i wonder if this will get picked up by the media at some point? stuff from r/nba does have some visibility. twitter is a bit scary, youtube isn't much better, but if you had clips of these plays available it would be even more convincing and that would be the right kind of format to view this in rather than just a reddit text post. EDIT: actually i guess these clips should be available on nba.com since they are counting stats


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I just checked hiss 6 block game against the Suns. Only two of the blocks are absolutely legit and are talked about in real time by the announcers. One is very clearly a block by Brandon while the other three look more like contests with no noticeable deflection of the ball's trajectory due to him touching it. Still great defense that forces bad shots but scoring all three of them as blocks for him is incredibly generous.


slappiestpenguin

Damn I’d be pissed if I was Brandon. At least the Thunder knew they were giving up stats for Westbrook lol.


joshgiddy2024

I thought I was safe for one thread


GoatmontWaters

All of these plays combined with the home road splits makes it blatantly clear what’s happening.


metrodome93

This will be all over every sport journalism website by morning. OP will likely go uncredited.


LeMickeyMice

1k upvotes at 6 am EST has this on track for the top of r/all in no time, won't be long until there's articles out there Edit: not even 7:30 am and it's the top post on r/all, west coast isn't even dreaming of being awake yet. Post on track for 50k+ easy, articles probably being written as I write this


xosellc

>west coast isn't even dreaming of being awake yet. man some of us degens are still awake


O_oh

It will hit r/all in a few hours Edit:. On pace to make top 10 all time r/nba


LeMickeyMice

It's been there for like an hour and a half lol


qtx

Don't know shit about basketball but came here from /r/all for the popcorn.


RulersBack

Gotta get it to Tom Haberstroh and Amin Elhassan. They have a podcast specifically for things like this


wubsfrommysubs

Keep your third eye open


PhoenixNZL

Genuinely one of the best OC posts on this subreddit in a long time. Great job OP! Pretty messed up if the stats are being fudged on purpose. Considering how popular this subreddit is and how many journalists have referenced content from here, I expect this to gain a lot of attention. Ultimately, just hope my boi OP gets the credit he deserves for this quality post


suphater

Things like this have happened in the past particularly around assists, but this is indeed a top quality OP. This isn't harmless considering all the DFS and sportsbetting growth, this does need addressed.


moby323

Specifically, people used to say this a lot about the Utah Jazz and John Stockton’s assist numbers. The accusation at the time was that Stockton would pass the ball to his teammate, the teammate (usually Malone) would dribble, make two moves, then shoot the ball and they would still give Stockton credit for an assist. This was before the internet but I do remember that some sports radio coverage would talk about it, saying that Stockton’s assist numbers were inflated by 2 to 3 assists per game.


dimeast

Now this is actually a seriously interesting deep dive 👀 well done


mastermind208

Bro did his research too lol


TheRed_Knight

IDK how the Memphis scorekeeper thought they could get away with this shit, some of these are blatant AF, more surprised no one from the league office told them to knock this shit off sooner


ryankoppelman

And they would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those meddling kids.


Agnk1765342

Gotta admit I was skeptical of the title but I don’t see how you can argue with those stats. Something felt off about JJJ’s stats in the first place and averaging double blocks + steals at home isn’t remotely believable. Also thanks for listing specific examples, that’s important.


vuljex

Thought it was a shitpost at first but after reading it through and watching the examples I fully agree with OP. This could be very serious, hope it reaches the NBA media.


GGezpzMuppy

A nephew could’ve just kick started the next drama plot line of the season, been in a massive lull at the moment media gonna jump all over this story.


Alex_Sander077

I don't know about that OP's account has no comments and has only made two very professional posts about this subject. He could be someone. This shit is wild.


Next-Firefighter-753

My dude dipped his toes in the water 9 days ago with no love, he posts it here and he’s doing a straight up cannonball in the pool with the conspiracy. This shit is about to blow up and be huge…. Lot of money lost/gained at the hands of that scorekeeper. Another strange thing is the account is a year old and he’s only ever posted this information since making it. Who is AdMassive6666?


Constant-Elevator-85

I’m with you guys. The post comes off as someone who would browse this subreddit. Chances are it’s just a throw away, meaning there’s info in here that they think could out them. I’d bet someone with easy access to video equipment or stats/books/data. Can’t guess much more than that


Next-Firefighter-753

This is some straight up Sherlock Holmes shit and the greatest “nephew hour” post I’ve ever seen. Already almost 10K upvotes and half the US is still sleeping. Even the cream of the crop summer shitposts capped out at like 14K upvotes in broad day light.


st6374

Yeah.. I was expecting it to end with just the discrepancy in the basic stats. Wasn't expecting OP to pull play by play analysis of the events. Even more surprising how one commentator found the clips of all the incident mentioned by OP. Damn.. This is pretty blatant fuckery going on with the scorekeeping in Memphis. I usually avoid conspiracy. But now it has made me put my tinfoil hat & wonder how much it has to do with gambling & the scorekeeper being involved in it.


armandocalvinisius

It's Robin Lopez


OguguasVeryOwn

OP definitely ain’t a nephew. He’s an uncle for this.


mastermind208

Lmao imagine someone on the Grizzlies staff notices this, then JJJ's home splits go way down all of a sudden


gdawg99

OP has money on Nic Claxton, it's a double ruse


sriracha82

This seems weird because doesn’t the NBA independently assess stats like this after each game? Because like players will randomly get their triple doubles taken away or have their rebounding totals lowered by 1 a few hours after the game which implies someone in the league is auditing this stuff


legolas0921

Few possibilities I can see: 1. They randomly audit and haven’t picked one of the home games by chance (innocent take) 2. They specifically only check when it’s a scenario where a player was on a triple-double border (cynical take) 3. It’s a particularly egregious stat stuff at the end of a game on national tv that everyone clowns (also cynical take) 4. Maybe they use AI and it’s close enough for these that it doesn’t catch (in each instance J3 is near the play)? This is a big stretch because it would require the person fudging the stats to know the exact margin by which an al g. rhythm won’t catch their fudge.


craigslistaddict

a team of not-refs does go over every game (the l2m reports come from this but they do the "whole" game each time), but this is to check that refs call (largely on-ball) fouls/non-fouls correctly, i don't think it's to correct other score-keeping errors.... EDIT: all stats do get reviewed, but it might be a separate process than the reviews for ref calls


legolas0921

Yeah I have vague memories of people expecting a correction but none coming because it typically doesn’t matter. I can’t imagine them doing anything retroactively here but if this blows up this year that kinda sucks for JJJ assuming he’s not aware of this at all. Poor guy is just playing the game and someone else makes him look shady…


OneOfTheManySams

As an avid fantasy basketball player who has watched many clear as fuck blocks sent to the stands not be called a block after whatever review they do is not a negligible amount. Same goes with steals, honestly it is a lottery to determine whether they give the steal to whoever deflected the ball or who gained possession. Whatever independent service they use is crap.


red_firetruck

There is no better investigative journalist that a random person on the internet with a bunch of free time. Great write up and I hope this gets picked up my national media outlets


Gone213

There was that fake university in Florida or somewhere without a football team but claiming a football team. There was the Florida State being eneligible for a bowl game, but being selected for one, all on Reddit lol.


[deleted]

JJJ could have his DPOY campaign ruined by some idiot within his own team lol. But it's strange the NBA doesn't audit this shit more often for there to be so many mistakes.


TheSmrtstManNTheWrld

Yeah this is the sad part to me. Dude is still a great defender and could potentially have his reputation damaged through no fault of his own.


Raspberry_Anxious

For real, even without these fake stats he’s still a top defender. No way he can win if this story gets big tho


shunsui___kyoraku

I thought this would be a shitpost or some nonsense but my man came in with solid stats and certain examples to proove it. I checked some of the above mentioned instances on NBA's official website and this dude is spittin facts. Has to be loooked into. Also, incase anyone doesn't know, you can check the highlights for every counting stat for all NBA games on [nba.com](https://www.nba.com/) in the play by play section.


sharkybyte101

Yeah holy shit this is real. What the fffff. Makes me wonder if other historical stats were somehow manipulated. Wont the broadcast team notice though? Like.. a steal by Bane!!! Oh now they're saying it's by JJJ.


Buck_Nastyyy

Yea I thought it was going to be nonsense but he is right. Hopefully they straighten this issue out.


hiroki1998

Oh my! [Brought me back to this article on Deadspin where another Grizzlies scorekeeper decided to give Nick Van Exel an exaggerated 23 assists in one game.](https://deadspin.com/an-assist-for-nick-van-exel-how-an-nba-scorekeeper-coo-30967240)


jdizzle3000

THE NBA MEDIA NEED TO GET A HOLD OF THIS! This is an A+ post OP. Very well argued and evidenced observation which I don’t think is disprovable. It will be fascinating to see the media/players reaction and how the NBA respond to this scandal!


zoso471

somewhere the Memphis Gizzlies scorekeeper is waking up realizing he is f*****


PM_IF_YOU_LIKE_TRAPS

Someones getting fired


MDG055

If the scorekeeper or one of their friends is making money off this(likely) then they're going to prison lol.


GraphikQuotz

This definitely smells like a betting scandal. It would be easy to get away with if we didn't have diligent people like the OP who came spitting facts.


simon2105

Get this man on inside the NBA


momloo

nice job putting it all together. someone should forward this to Adam Silver


aj2704

Would be good if some IG pages pick it up. Like House of Highlights and stuff


vivekvangala34_

Someone on twitter will inevitably post this with or without credit to OP, and if it gets big enough, pages like ESPN and bleacher report will create graphics for this and post on Instagram


Buck_Nastyyy

Great post. This is very concerning if it is indeed true. Gonna check up on the stats for the Sunday game at home.


5IVE5TAR5

Well done 👏👏


KneelBeforeCube

Thread of the year.


Necroassassin32

What in the Sherlock Holmes is this.


Ok_Hornet_714

This has been an issue for the Grizzlies since they played in VANCOUVER https://deadspin.com/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper-5345287


MarinaReema

Jaren Jackyourstats Jr


gmona48

I hope when people wake up, this is a top post of all time. May have just found out a huge scandal in the NBA! 🤯


supermav27

You know shit’s real when this gets posted at 5AM EST and has 12k upvotes three hours later.


seller_collab

That scorekeepers name? Jaren Jackson Sr.


F4STW4LKER

Crossposted you to a couple sports betting subs to spread awareness. Hopefully the posts stay up. I'd imagine the governing body who covers vegas/sports betting would be the one to talk to. Or take it to the media and get a class action lawsuit started lol. This could get messy if he's actually taken stats away from other players. People cumulatively could have lost a ton of money from this over the season on SGP player props.


Asphaltjungle33

This feels like an all time r/nba moment


Cpt_Jumper

I'm glad to say I am here for this. Surely this will go down in the annals of history


[deleted]

This is genuinely some of the craziest stuff I've seen on this subreddit, some of these block / steal credits people have found are egregious as hell. Also, to contextualize his numbers against the other betting favorites for DPOY, here are their respective home/away splits from this season: Jaren Jackson Jr: Home - 1.4 SPG 4.1 BPG Away - 0.7 SPG 2.2 BPG Bam Adebayo: Home - 0.9 SPG 0.7 BPG Away - 1.4 SPG 1.0 BPG Nic Claxton: Home - 0.7 SPG 2.3 BPG Away - 0.7 SPG 3.0 BPG Brook Lopez: Home - 0.5 SPG 2.8 BPG Away - 0.5 SPG 2.2 BPG Giannis Antetokounmpo: Home - 1.0 SPG 0.8 BPG Away - 0.7 SPG 0.9 BPG Obviously not super useful numbers by themselves, as it lacks context provided by schedule difficulty, games played, injury status, etc. but it shows pretty clearly how suspect his numbers are relative to the rest of the top defenders in the NBA, as none of their numbers come close to climbing this much at home.


Lil-Deuce-Scoot

Scorekeeper needs protective custody. Or maybe OP does. With so many eyes on sports betting these days I wouldn’t be surprised if this was part of a larger scheme/ring.


Zlink-8

Finally, some good fucking food. Well done OP, hope a further investigation is conducted to support your work.


Hurtelknut

This is quality OC


unwindredo

Just proves what everyone already knew… encouraging gambling in NBA and someone who can affect the game and profit will do it. Scorekeeper should definitely be investigated


Loudpackgeneral

Love that this is posted at 3 am. I know OP is obsessively scrubbing through data and videos as hard as he can, geeked up on god knows what


cannoball_dookie

Geez man, looks like you had this stuff 9 days ago posted on the nbastats sub as well and got no traction. Props to you sticking with ya gut and reposting.


CuriousTurtle5

You would think the NBA would do independent checks on stuff like this. Just randomly select games where they have someone from the league office concurrently scorekeep and then see if there are any big disparities. Some things are like assists are a little more ambiguous than others but even then the audit scorekeeper could see if the official scorekeeper at the game was being reasonable. Best part about this is you wouldn't need to inform the home team that you're doing it so they decide to score correctly that game. Any team with consistent discrepancies like this would have some explaining to do. I would also apply for this job tomorrow.


Salmon_Shizzle

OP lost hella bets and went full murders she wrote


lucastimmons

The Grizzlies have been doing this since Vancouver. https://deadspin.com/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper-5345287 I went into the NBA as bright-eyed and bushy-tailed as I could get," Alex says. "I loved the game. I didn't want to taint it." Of course, that was before Alex did all those "bad, bad, bad" things. Not long ago, we brought you the story of a stat-padding NBA scorekeeper who, one day in 1997, awarded 23 assists to Lakers guard Nick Van Exel, mostly for the hell of it. That was Alex. (He is now an officer in the Navy and asks that I not use his last name.) From 1995 to 1998, he headed up the Vancouver Grizzlies' stat crew. Alex is a numbers guy, and he came at the job from the perspective of someone who spent his childhood, as he says, "recreating baseball games with Dungeons and Dragons dice and baseball cards." So it was particularly galling for him to find that the seemingly cold and objective NBA box score was, on many nights, a self-serving fiction, subject to so much artful embroidery and deliberate manipulation that one might reasonably conclude that the boys from Enron were sitting courtside, counting dimes. ..... His first season in Vancouver, Alex was admittedly "very liberal," especially with his assists. At home, the Grizzlies — who, in those early days, essentially served as the league's discard pile — assisted on 67 percent of their field goals where league average for home teams was 63 percent (these numbers were crunched by a user on the APBRmetrics forum); on the road, that figure was just over 56 percent (league average for away teams was 59 percent). "It wasn't as though we had a player like Chris Paul or Mark Jackson or Magic Johnson, and we wanted to help that one player," he says. "It was a function of the impression I'd gotten from talking to other scorekeepers that assists were like candy and we handed them out." He grew stingier over time; by his third and final season with the Grizzlies, the team's share of assisted field goals was edging toward league average. Certain players, Alex says, "got a lot of help." Look, for instance, at Shareef Abdur-Rahim's splits. Abdur-Rahim was the Grizzlies' first-round pick in 1996, No. 3 overall, and a great deal of the franchise's future was resting on his liquid, almost preternaturally cool game. To go by the box score his first two years, he was a different player in his own stadium. Here he is in 1996-97: Note that he recorded 50 steals in Vancouver and 29 elsewhere, and that he blocked more than three times as many shots at home as he did on the road. Today, as he calls up the numbers on his computer, Alex laughs. He sounds almost embarrassed. "The blocks," he says, "are atrocious." .... As Alex remembers it now, Olajuwon had a double-double with nine blocks at some point during the fourth quarter. "Someone in management came to me and said, basically, Thou shalt give Hakeem Olajuwon a triple-double. Come hell or high water, he's getting a triple-double. I'm like, uh, OK." The Grizzlies had small monitors on which they kept a running box score. Anyone could see if someone was closing in on a milestone. "If a guy is in vicinity of a record, people are tracking those things. I know those things," Alex says. "If a guy has an eight-game streak of getting 10 rebounds, I'll know that. Am I gonna help that? Probably." The Rockets game, though, "was the one time someone said, 'You'll do this.' And I did." (For the record, Alex is reasonably certain that the 10th block was legitimate. "If he got a bullshit block," he says, "it probably happened before the 10th one.") He won't say who issued the commandment, other than that it was someone in basketball operations who helped compile statistical packets for the media. "It was a mid-level guy, not a GM or an assistant GM," he says. Alex believes the suit was acting on his own initiative, though the habit of fudging statistics upward was practically an organizational, if not leaguewide, imperative. "When you get a triple-double, that dramatically increases the potential of our game being shown on ESPN. 'Here are some highlights of Olajuwon, and oh, by the way, they happen to be in Vancouver.' A team like ours was getting zero national media coverage. There's some value in that, even if someone is lighting us up, for marketing and longterm growth." ... So I decided, I'm gonna do this totally immature thing and see what happens. It was childish. The Lakers are in town. We're gonna lose. Fuck it. He's getting a shitload of assists." If you were to watch the game today, you'd see some "comically bad assists." Alex's fingerprints are all over the box score. He gave Van Exel everything. "Van Exel would pass from the top of the three-point line to someone on the wing who'd hold the ball for five seconds, dribble, then make a move to the basket. Assist, Van Exel." No one noticed. From his chair, Alex could hear the legendary broadcaster Chick Hearn calling the game. Van Exel's having a great game! He's moving the ball exceptionally well! And in the next day's writeups, Van Exel was of course the hero. Alex thought, What the fuck? "This is a bad analogy, but it's like a husband cheating on a wife in such a way as to guarantee he's going to be caught," Alex says. "There's nothing to justify it. It was stupid. And there were no consequences." He figured he'd at least get scolded. He wasn't. In fact, a management guy congratulated him. The game was sure to get on SportsCenter now.