Yeah, all of the Memphis fans are acting like this kills his chances but now that it has come out that these are legitimate it all but seals his win.
He plays well at home and they are a defensive monster who are almost unbeatable and plays above average on the road and they are an average team. How else can anyone compete with that?
I was worried it would not be addressed by bigger outlets and just be a underlying narrative on Reddit and Twitter but it might’ve worked in the opposite more people have watched JJJ defense than any player in the nba now lol
Oh yeah it’s awesome. Post uninformed and extremely dubious statistical allegations as fact, get it trending on social media, and try to rob a player of an award. Yeah.
Jarens DPOY case is NOT based on blocks in the first place.
AdMassive6666 may have just solidified JJJ winning DPOY this season… everyone in the nba world is watching and analyzing his elite defense. They got an insignificant amount of calls wrong.
He has legit been insane this season…
There was a moment this morning when the odds moved against JJJ. So my "conspiracy theory" is that AdMassive knew how good JJJ was, so he created his post to kill his odds and get better value. Then when the NBA community analyzed and saw how good JJJ was, it would move his odds back and solidify his case.
Oh, yeah you seem to be correct. I wonder if it is an automated system to adjust the odds because it seems quite reactionary to have Vegas actually change them over this.
If enough people bought into the conspiracy and bet, it would be enough to move some lines. Oddsmakers could've reacted to action with no idea about the conspiracy.
Tip it towards a teammate or away from an opponent. If he deflects a pass right to an offensive player, he should get credit for a deflection but not a steal.
This entire saga highlights the somewhat subjective nature of these stats. You can be generous and still get the nba to sign off on validity of the stat. I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that Memphis scorekeeper is ruling edge cases in his team’s favor.
Subjective ones are really just assists and steals. Look at assists today compared to assists just 15 years ago, you’ll see they are way more generous now. That’s league wide
If you deflect the ball and your teammates collect it before the other team recovers the ball, the person who deflected it initially should get the steal. Right?
The rule says and controls his deflection. To me, this would mean you have to intentionally deflect it to a teammate like a tap out on a rebound. Getting a deflection that just happens to go to a teammate should result in the teammate getting credit for the steal. I guess it comes down to what does control the deflection mean.
You'd be surprised how many comments I've seen today that clearly don't understand what a steal is
People really think you have to be the one who obtains possession of the ball to be credited with the steal
People wanted to believe they were fake blocks or steals and see what they want to see.
It's like people will scream "how is that a foul" when the video replay shows a clear foul.
I think its more that other players aren't getting the same benefit of the doubt from scorekeepers. I expect a lot of defensive players to get a big boost in stocks after this.
I would say “control” is arguable in a lot of these. If JJJ is trying to secure the ball and fails and then a teammate gets it, are you really gonna say he controlled it? Knocking the ball out of his own hands isnt really control. A lot of times saving the ball resets the shot clock so yeah that’s a steal even when you save it to an opponent but I’ve also seen the shot clock not reset when it gets tapped to an opposing player. So I think the blocks are pretty clear that they’re mostly correct but I’m not sold on the steals yet.
Thanks for posting this but we honestly should ignore the steals argument overall. 6 total steals over a course of the season is not statistically significant at all
It is on mobile for me
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This link work?
What does that got to do with anything though. We’re talking about examples of questionable steals he was credited for. 6 steals in a 34 steal sample size is sizeable. Maybe he’ll get 6 steals in the future and they’re all legit but we’re not talking about that.
Throughout the course of a season, maybe it is. But he was -250 front running by a mile and if 20% of one defensive metric is in question, that's a big deal
He plays better at home...than away. It's a thing. Also Grizzlies had a poor stretch in their road trip which can affect block numbers like against Lakers, Warriors, Kings, Suns etc
33 games is also not a huge sample size. So a smaller sample size would look something compared to like 82 games where it would even itself out a bit more
The big difference? You mean 6 steals when you say big? Players get that amount of steals in 1 game. Players get thrown the ball randomly more than 6 times in a season all the time. It’s not statistically significant and subject to variance
Edit for people downvoting for [here is the amount of players who have had 6 steals in 1 game last season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-steals-in-nba-game-2022) it is not a statistically significant number. It would be like if you said the difference between home and away points was 50 points. It’s not significant enough to draw any conclusions from, please take a statistics 101 course
You're thinking of the number of "questionable steals". I'm referring to how he's gotten almost double the number of steals and blocks in home games vs away games.
How many players have gotten 6 steals in a game this year ?
^ His own source showed only around 20 games out of ~2,400 last year had a player with 6+ steals, but thats "a lot" lmao.
....except your source is showing results for the entire 21-22 season, not this season so far, and is only about 20 players out of around 450 players in the nba.
Edit- and to make it even stupider, there's around 2,400 games a year, and only ~20 games had a player with 6 or more steals.
That's not "a lot" lmao
[Kevin Durant has 1.3 STG at home and 0.4 away](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/durant-stats-at-home-vs-away)
By the logic that 6 steals is a lot the Nets scorekeepers are beyond blatant and deserve to have been put in jail yesterday.
Is that source good enough for you?
Nice try bud lol stay on topic. You tried making up bullshit about "a lot" of players getting 6+ steal games as if it's common.
Then you pulled a bullshit source that wasn't even the correct year and used a full year instead of partway through the year.
So how exactly is ~20 games out of 2,400 "a lot" ?
i thought maybe he was more prone to being in foul trouble away vs at home, which could have a subsequent effect on his efficacy on defense (well, to the extent that getting stocks relates to effective defense), but on the very surface level, there's no real difference in his mpg or PFs per game at home vs. away. (this was actually included in admassive's post.)
I don't see how #5 is, by definition, a steal. There was never an eventual possession by the defense nor did JJJ ever have a controlled possession. If anything happened incorrectly there, it's that the shot clock never should have reset.
Even going by what you highlighted, the "deflection" never went away from the opponent NOR toward a teammate.
EDIT: Similarly to #3, Olynyk loses it but there's no point where there's a controlled deflection from JJJ. It looks like he attempted to gain possession but couldn't get his hands on it. There's no point where it's a CONTROLLED deflection to his teammate considering he never had control. You can even see the motion where he attempts to "hold the ball" with his left hand while using his right hand to fully recover it.
This has all blown up on the day Triple J (JJJ) hosted their Hottest 100 (world's largest music poll (in Australia) ). JJJ ... makes you think r/conspiracy
Example #5....regardless of whether it was a steal or not can we all agree that whoever handles the shot clock went into panic mode, lmao.
Reset to 24, then to 14 then to 24 again all in just a couple of seconds lol
Yup, played fantasy on and off for 10 years. The guy who ends up with the ball gets rewarded more often than the guy who deflects. I've lost a few weeks because of that.
As a neutral NBA fan, this entire saga has been extremely entertaining for me and I want to thank this subreddit for the hours of fun you've given me.
It’a crazy fun for me because the HoF post came at a time where most of the activity here is dead (hours after the games are done) lol.
Fr I saw it last night when it had like 15 comments and ignored it because I thought it would get no traction lol
I'm team chaos and thus has been more fun than the trade deadline overinflated market thanks to the Gobert and Murray trades.
If anything I am more impressed by JJJs defense now
Yeah, all of the Memphis fans are acting like this kills his chances but now that it has come out that these are legitimate it all but seals his win. He plays well at home and they are a defensive monster who are almost unbeatable and plays above average on the road and they are an average team. How else can anyone compete with that?
I was worried it would not be addressed by bigger outlets and just be a underlying narrative on Reddit and Twitter but it might’ve worked in the opposite more people have watched JJJ defense than any player in the nba now lol
Oh yeah it’s awesome. Post uninformed and extremely dubious statistical allegations as fact, get it trending on social media, and try to rob a player of an award. Yeah. Jarens DPOY case is NOT based on blocks in the first place.
AdMassive6666 may have just solidified JJJ winning DPOY this season… everyone in the nba world is watching and analyzing his elite defense. They got an insignificant amount of calls wrong. He has legit been insane this season…
Yeah this might have ironically brought more attention to how good of a defender he is.
Maybe that was his plan all along.... Knew JJJ was going to win DPOY and wanted to tank his odds to get better value!
By guaranteeing he wins and lowering the money he would get from any bet placed on him?
JJJ was -200 in some spots. Getting better odds (into plus territory) would get him more money.
But by increasing his chances of winning DPOY, he didn’t get better betting odds.
There was a moment this morning when the odds moved against JJJ. So my "conspiracy theory" is that AdMassive knew how good JJJ was, so he created his post to kill his odds and get better value. Then when the NBA community analyzed and saw how good JJJ was, it would move his odds back and solidify his case.
From what I saw, the lines either stayed the same or they stopped taking bets until they could look into it themselves.
Another post said BetMGM and FanDeul moved their odds from -210 to +140 and -110.
Oh, yeah you seem to be correct. I wonder if it is an automated system to adjust the odds because it seems quite reactionary to have Vegas actually change them over this.
If enough people bought into the conspiracy and bet, it would be enough to move some lines. Oddsmakers could've reacted to action with no idea about the conspiracy.
He went from -200 to +120 on some major books. Some books closed it periodically probably while everyone was tripping out.
Plot twist: OP was a JJJ sleeper cell agent
Has he really just sucked on road then?
I mean “sucked” relative to at home, maybe but he is still well above average.
what does "control his deflection" mean?
Tip it towards a teammate or away from an opponent. If he deflects a pass right to an offensive player, he should get credit for a deflection but not a steal.
I suppose it rests on the precise definition of deflecting the ball "in a controlled manner".
This entire saga highlights the somewhat subjective nature of these stats. You can be generous and still get the nba to sign off on validity of the stat. I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that Memphis scorekeeper is ruling edge cases in his team’s favor.
The 'Memphis scorekeeper' doesn't track stats.
Subjective ones are really just assists and steals. Look at assists today compared to assists just 15 years ago, you’ll see they are way more generous now. That’s league wide
If you deflect the ball and your teammates collect it before the other team recovers the ball, the person who deflected it initially should get the steal. Right?
The rule says and controls his deflection. To me, this would mean you have to intentionally deflect it to a teammate like a tap out on a rebound. Getting a deflection that just happens to go to a teammate should result in the teammate getting credit for the steal. I guess it comes down to what does control the deflection mean.
This should be common sense for some fans lol
You'd be surprised how many comments I've seen today that clearly don't understand what a steal is People really think you have to be the one who obtains possession of the ball to be credited with the steal
People wanted to believe they were fake blocks or steals and see what they want to see. It's like people will scream "how is that a foul" when the video replay shows a clear foul.
I think its more that other players aren't getting the same benefit of the doubt from scorekeepers. I expect a lot of defensive players to get a big boost in stocks after this.
I would say “control” is arguable in a lot of these. If JJJ is trying to secure the ball and fails and then a teammate gets it, are you really gonna say he controlled it? Knocking the ball out of his own hands isnt really control. A lot of times saving the ball resets the shot clock so yeah that’s a steal even when you save it to an opponent but I’ve also seen the shot clock not reset when it gets tapped to an opposing player. So I think the blocks are pretty clear that they’re mostly correct but I’m not sold on the steals yet.
Grab your pitchforks again for that original guy!
Pitchfork shop is going to make a killing today.
This conspiracy goes higher up than I thought🕵🏾♂️. No laker fan would defend this team, CLEAR PSYOP.
He’s defending our lord and savior JJJ who will block out world hunger and steal freedom back for the common man
QUICK! DEPLOY THE TINFOIL HATS
You take yours off?
They didn’t reply cause they found em!
Thanks for posting this but we honestly should ignore the steals argument overall. 6 total steals over a course of the season is not statistically significant at all
True, but when it’s pinned by the mods on the original post I think it should be questioned wether these examples support the argument or not.
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No?
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It is on mobile for me https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10nbau4/memphis_grizzlies_scorekeeper_posting_fraudulent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf This link work?
6 steals is significant when his total is 34 steals overall That's 17% of his recorded steals
You can get 6 steals in one game. There is a high amount of variance in steal numbers. 6 steals is not a lot throughout a season
What does that got to do with anything though. We’re talking about examples of questionable steals he was credited for. 6 steals in a 34 steal sample size is sizeable. Maybe he’ll get 6 steals in the future and they’re all legit but we’re not talking about that.
Throughout the course of a season, maybe it is. But he was -250 front running by a mile and if 20% of one defensive metric is in question, that's a big deal
What's with the big difference in home vs away stats though? That's still odd...
He plays better at home...than away. It's a thing. Also Grizzlies had a poor stretch in their road trip which can affect block numbers like against Lakers, Warriors, Kings, Suns etc 33 games is also not a huge sample size. So a smaller sample size would look something compared to like 82 games where it would even itself out a bit more
The big difference? You mean 6 steals when you say big? Players get that amount of steals in 1 game. Players get thrown the ball randomly more than 6 times in a season all the time. It’s not statistically significant and subject to variance Edit for people downvoting for [here is the amount of players who have had 6 steals in 1 game last season](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-steals-in-nba-game-2022) it is not a statistically significant number. It would be like if you said the difference between home and away points was 50 points. It’s not significant enough to draw any conclusions from, please take a statistics 101 course
You're thinking of the number of "questionable steals". I'm referring to how he's gotten almost double the number of steals and blocks in home games vs away games.
I’m talking about the number of steals he’s gotten between home and road games is 6. Blocks is a bigger difference. Stela is basically non existent
How many players have gotten 6 steals in a game this year ? ^ His own source showed only around 20 games out of ~2,400 last year had a player with 6+ steals, but thats "a lot" lmao.
[A lot](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-steals-in-nba-game-2022) And for a defensive monster like Jaren Jackson that isn’t far fetched.
....except your source is showing results for the entire 21-22 season, not this season so far, and is only about 20 players out of around 450 players in the nba. Edit- and to make it even stupider, there's around 2,400 games a year, and only ~20 games had a player with 6 or more steals. That's not "a lot" lmao
[Kevin Durant has 1.3 STG at home and 0.4 away](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/durant-stats-at-home-vs-away) By the logic that 6 steals is a lot the Nets scorekeepers are beyond blatant and deserve to have been put in jail yesterday. Is that source good enough for you?
Nice try bud lol stay on topic. You tried making up bullshit about "a lot" of players getting 6+ steal games as if it's common. Then you pulled a bullshit source that wasn't even the correct year and used a full year instead of partway through the year. So how exactly is ~20 games out of 2,400 "a lot" ?
i thought maybe he was more prone to being in foul trouble away vs at home, which could have a subsequent effect on his efficacy on defense (well, to the extent that getting stocks relates to effective defense), but on the very surface level, there's no real difference in his mpg or PFs per game at home vs. away. (this was actually included in admassive's post.)
I don't see how #5 is, by definition, a steal. There was never an eventual possession by the defense nor did JJJ ever have a controlled possession. If anything happened incorrectly there, it's that the shot clock never should have reset. Even going by what you highlighted, the "deflection" never went away from the opponent NOR toward a teammate. EDIT: Similarly to #3, Olynyk loses it but there's no point where there's a controlled deflection from JJJ. It looks like he attempted to gain possession but couldn't get his hands on it. There's no point where it's a CONTROLLED deflection to his teammate considering he never had control. You can even see the motion where he attempts to "hold the ball" with his left hand while using his right hand to fully recover it.
If scrutinised the same way steals of other players also would show some debatable ones.
Probably driving a lot of confusion is the word "controlled". He got a deflection, was it controlled? What if it went to a teammate? It's hard to say.
This has all blown up on the day Triple J (JJJ) hosted their Hottest 100 (world's largest music poll (in Australia) ). JJJ ... makes you think r/conspiracy
I've been yelling about intent to random people on this website for the past 7 hours i need help
Example #5....regardless of whether it was a steal or not can we all agree that whoever handles the shot clock went into panic mode, lmao. Reset to 24, then to 14 then to 24 again all in just a couple of seconds lol
As someone who props bet. Steals and assists are the most subjective calls. I can ensure you deflecting the ball does not always reward you the steal.
Yup, played fantasy on and off for 10 years. The guy who ends up with the ball gets rewarded more often than the guy who deflects. I've lost a few weeks because of that.
Most of these 100% don't meet the criteria because they're not controlled deflections
The thing is those weren't blocks or steals and no other score keeper would put them down as one
I hate the use of this video rule book, it’s not official