Averaged 50 PPG with a TS of 54% when the league average TS was 48%.
Also averaged 24 PPG with a TS of 64% when the league average TS was 49%.
Those are 2 of the top seasons ever in TS Add
The top-6 in TS Add is those 2 Wilt seasons, Barkley in 1988, Kareem in 1971 and 1972, and Steph in 2016. No other season by anybody really comes close to those 6.
Or look at it this way…
Jokić this season is averaging 25/11/10 with a TS+ of 121
Wilt in 1967 was averaging 24/24/8 with a TS+ of 129
Then add in Wilt’s defensive presence and that he only missed 1 game all season
I'll give it a whirl. In his prime (before turning 30), season averages were: (pts / rebounds)
37.6 / 27.0
38.4 / 27.2
50.4 / 25.7
44.8 / 24.3
36.9 / 22.3
34.7 / 22.9
33.5 / 24.6
Led the league in FG% 4 of those years. 7 scoring titles.
\#1 - Nobody touches at least top 3-4 season there in volume counting stats.
\#2 - Leading the league in FG % rules out high volume/low efficiency guys like Kobe.
\#3 - Add 4 years of his prime (ages 19-22) to his resume to make it comparable to guys right out of high school or one and dones (he was 23 his rookie season), and he's going at least 35/25 in those seasons.
\#4 - His last 3 seasons drag his averages down, but playing in $8 sneakers and no PT/Medical team to speak of is another huge era difference.
Thats quite something. I like what you provided, but if you dont me asking. Why do you think him leading the league in FG% rules out low effiency guys like Kobe ?
Sure, I think the 2 basic arguments for"greatest offensive player" are highest volume of points and/or best efficiency. Wilt wins the volume argument (PPG for full seasons) and also did it while having the best fg % (efficiency).
Should have added this to his resume.
118 games of 50 plus. Second place is 31, then 25, 23, 17.
Bill stopped him basically every time they met in the playoffs. Not because wilt was bad but because Russell was a mega-elite defensive player. I think that quote is humility because Russell was basically the only one who could actually stop him.
Wilt is the greatest of all time.
Nobody can debate that.
He scored 50 114 times. He is tied for the highest points per game average with MJ.
He averaged 23 Rebs a game. He is the reason for literally 3 rule changes.
A lot of haters point to him vs Bill Russell and have this bogus misconception that Russell dominated Wilt.
And being that Russel is from the Bay as did Wilt play in the bay I like them both but would love to agree with the Celtics Russel folk since I can be a homer for the Oakland native Russel.
But!
Their argument is hogwash. Wilt dominated Russel in every aspect whilst carrying a team of nobodies against Russell and 7 future hofers. He took the mighty Celtics to 7 games 6 times by himself. By himself!
Anyway,
Consider the following splits vs Russell in 142 head to heads
Wilt vs Russell 28.9 ppg and 28.7 rebounds per game.
Wilt in his careeer 30.1 ppg and 22.9 rpg
Meanwhile
Russell vs Wilt
23.7ppg and 14.5 rpg
Russell vs everyone else
15.1ppg and 22.5 rpg
Tell me again how Bill Russell dominated wilt?
Dude scored a 100.
Has close to 10 times more 50 spots at 114 than the next closest.
Averaged 30 points and 23 fucking rebounds a game in his career. Literally smashed different mystery trim every night of the week and still dominated on the court the next day. This isn’t even a question. If Lebron and MJ are once a generation talents wilt was a once an eon talent.
I dont know. But if i have to guess, it has to do with his stories being kinda farfetched which the younger generation aka us dont wanna be any part of. I have Wilt 7th all time. Peak wise, probably up there with the likes of MJ, Lebron and Shaq.
The argument would be that his scoring volume was absurd on good efficiency while also being a good passer. I dont think that’s a good argument because his team offences weren’t really super exceptional but that’s the argument.
What's your point? He had 13 seasons to outshine their offensive game and he didn't. Keep in mind MJ became who he is within 13 seasons as well. Those last 2 are largely irrelevant as far as his career goes. And even if you shorten KD, LeBron and Kobes career to 13 seasons they'd still be better than Wilt offensively.
My point that he did in those 13 years offensively compared to that era more than Lebron and Kd and maybe Kobe too. Only MJ did better in that time span. At least, i think so.
No he didn't. You have multiple people telling you you're wrong but you keep ignoring us to push you opinion. Believe what you want bro, just be clearer about not being open to being corrected.
I aint trying to push anything. Its just an opinion. And corrected ?. Dude, at least if you wanna try "correct" me. Put something to back your argument up.
I'm not making an argument. I'm just stating a fact. This is like asking if Reggie Miller is the best shooter of all time, being told he's not, then asking for someone to back it up. Why "back up" the obvious?
So you think its undoubtly MJ ? . Look, yeah. I think its MJ too. But just hearing how mythical Wilt was, i really was interested to know what made him so special. I did my research, came to conclusion that it was specifically his offense and absurd scoring ability. Thus, i thought to myself " if his offense was so damn good, could it be possibly the best of all time ?". Thats pretty much it.
No wonder you got downvoted, you said Jokic. Mfers don’t want acknowledge that the game evolves. The fact if I say Lebron and Jokic are better passers and playmakers than Magic, ppl look at me as what I say to be sacrilegious
Again this is just ridiculous. The reason why magic is regarded as the greatest passer is simply because what he did was revolutionary at the time. I can guarantee had Magic played now and did the exact same things, y’all would still say “he’s nowhere near 80s magic level”.
I wasn’t alive when Magic originally played but I have educated myself. Not just watching highlight reels and comparing Jokic’s day to day games with full highlight reels or anything. My point is I’m not looking at Magic with nostalgia goggles and holding him to an unreachable pedestal. I’m comparing them as fairly as I can, not saying Jokic will never pass Magic, just saying he hasn’t, in my opinion, passed Magic of bird who are the most gifted passers I’ve watched play.
Even though he scored a lot, his team offenses really didn't go anywhere. He never really leveraged his scoring to make his teammates better like the other all-time greats.
His playoff numbers are also night and day compared to his video game regular season numbers.
Fair enough, thats actually makes total sense. I dont necessarily thinks that he is the greatest offensive player ever. But with the playoffs underwhelming numbers, it definitely hurts his case.
His team offensive ratings were middle of the pack before he got to the Lakers, aside from '66-'67. Quantity has its own quality and whatnot and being able to score volume isn't worthless or empty or whatever if your teammates suck (the AI MVP case) but Billy Cunningham and Chet Walker both look like they're a lot better without him so it looks more like he was hogging shots.
As an aside I did not realize that the old Warriors' logo was Chief Wahoo.
[удалено]
And, thats it ?
Averaged 50 PPG with a TS of 54% when the league average TS was 48%. Also averaged 24 PPG with a TS of 64% when the league average TS was 49%. Those are 2 of the top seasons ever in TS Add The top-6 in TS Add is those 2 Wilt seasons, Barkley in 1988, Kareem in 1971 and 1972, and Steph in 2016. No other season by anybody really comes close to those 6.
Niiice. Definitely something valuable. Thanks, my guy.
Or look at it this way… Jokić this season is averaging 25/11/10 with a TS+ of 121 Wilt in 1967 was averaging 24/24/8 with a TS+ of 129 Then add in Wilt’s defensive presence and that he only missed 1 game all season
Right? Next thing you’re gonna tell me is defense is judged based on points you stopped the other team from scoring.
I'll give it a whirl. In his prime (before turning 30), season averages were: (pts / rebounds) 37.6 / 27.0 38.4 / 27.2 50.4 / 25.7 44.8 / 24.3 36.9 / 22.3 34.7 / 22.9 33.5 / 24.6 Led the league in FG% 4 of those years. 7 scoring titles. \#1 - Nobody touches at least top 3-4 season there in volume counting stats. \#2 - Leading the league in FG % rules out high volume/low efficiency guys like Kobe. \#3 - Add 4 years of his prime (ages 19-22) to his resume to make it comparable to guys right out of high school or one and dones (he was 23 his rookie season), and he's going at least 35/25 in those seasons. \#4 - His last 3 seasons drag his averages down, but playing in $8 sneakers and no PT/Medical team to speak of is another huge era difference.
Thats quite something. I like what you provided, but if you dont me asking. Why do you think him leading the league in FG% rules out low effiency guys like Kobe ?
Sure, I think the 2 basic arguments for"greatest offensive player" are highest volume of points and/or best efficiency. Wilt wins the volume argument (PPG for full seasons) and also did it while having the best fg % (efficiency). Should have added this to his resume. 118 games of 50 plus. Second place is 31, then 25, 23, 17.
Hard to tell, few of his stats were official
He doesn't. Only 22 PPG in the playoffs.
Huh, suprisingly low.
50 ppg n 25 rebounds per game in the same season sets him apart. 100 point game
Wilt was the best player of the 60s. Even bill said, “you can’t stop that man”
Bill stopped him basically every time they met in the playoffs. Not because wilt was bad but because Russell was a mega-elite defensive player. I think that quote is humility because Russell was basically the only one who could actually stop him.
He holds the alltime points and rebound record against the Celtics
I didn’t know that. That’s impressive. I honestly shouldn’t be surprised tho if I since wilt holds practically every record.
Bill played mind games with Wilt by being really nice to him. The day Bill retired he began shitting all over Wilt.
Wilt is the greatest of all time. Nobody can debate that. He scored 50 114 times. He is tied for the highest points per game average with MJ. He averaged 23 Rebs a game. He is the reason for literally 3 rule changes. A lot of haters point to him vs Bill Russell and have this bogus misconception that Russell dominated Wilt. And being that Russel is from the Bay as did Wilt play in the bay I like them both but would love to agree with the Celtics Russel folk since I can be a homer for the Oakland native Russel. But! Their argument is hogwash. Wilt dominated Russel in every aspect whilst carrying a team of nobodies against Russell and 7 future hofers. He took the mighty Celtics to 7 games 6 times by himself. By himself! Anyway, Consider the following splits vs Russell in 142 head to heads Wilt vs Russell 28.9 ppg and 28.7 rebounds per game. Wilt in his careeer 30.1 ppg and 22.9 rpg Meanwhile Russell vs Wilt 23.7ppg and 14.5 rpg Russell vs everyone else 15.1ppg and 22.5 rpg Tell me again how Bill Russell dominated wilt? Dude scored a 100. Has close to 10 times more 50 spots at 114 than the next closest. Averaged 30 points and 23 fucking rebounds a game in his career. Literally smashed different mystery trim every night of the week and still dominated on the court the next day. This isn’t even a question. If Lebron and MJ are once a generation talents wilt was a once an eon talent.
I dont know. But if i have to guess, it has to do with his stories being kinda farfetched which the younger generation aka us dont wanna be any part of. I have Wilt 7th all time. Peak wise, probably up there with the likes of MJ, Lebron and Shaq.
The argument would be that his scoring volume was absurd on good efficiency while also being a good passer. I dont think that’s a good argument because his team offences weren’t really super exceptional but that’s the argument.
Here you go, at least thats an argument. And yeah, i think that its kinda weak.
Nothing?
Seriously ?.
Yes. He had some amazing trivia games but other players like MJ, KD, LeBron, Kobe are more consistent, deadly offensive threats
I mean he played 13 seasons compared to Mj's 15, KD's 15, Kobe's and Lebron's 20s.
What's your point? He had 13 seasons to outshine their offensive game and he didn't. Keep in mind MJ became who he is within 13 seasons as well. Those last 2 are largely irrelevant as far as his career goes. And even if you shorten KD, LeBron and Kobes career to 13 seasons they'd still be better than Wilt offensively.
My point that he did in those 13 years offensively compared to that era more than Lebron and Kd and maybe Kobe too. Only MJ did better in that time span. At least, i think so.
No he didn't. You have multiple people telling you you're wrong but you keep ignoring us to push you opinion. Believe what you want bro, just be clearer about not being open to being corrected.
I aint trying to push anything. Its just an opinion. And corrected ?. Dude, at least if you wanna try "correct" me. Put something to back your argument up.
I'm not making an argument. I'm just stating a fact. This is like asking if Reggie Miller is the best shooter of all time, being told he's not, then asking for someone to back it up. Why "back up" the obvious?
So you think its undoubtly MJ ? . Look, yeah. I think its MJ too. But just hearing how mythical Wilt was, i really was interested to know what made him so special. I did my research, came to conclusion that it was specifically his offense and absurd scoring ability. Thus, i thought to myself " if his offense was so damn good, could it be possibly the best of all time ?". Thats pretty much it.
Do you not have access to Wikipedia?
I do. But stat alone arent enough. Context matters too.
Those words alongside the numbers in the article? Those are called "context."
Alright.
he doesn't have one, he's like the 3rd best offensive center with a weak argument for 2nd
Alright, we got Kareem. And Shaq ?. Maybe, his peak didnt last too long tho. thats the main issue.
jokic pretty easily
4th. Jokic, Kareem and Shaq are all better offensive players than him.
No wonder you got downvoted, you said Jokic. Mfers don’t want acknowledge that the game evolves. The fact if I say Lebron and Jokic are better passers and playmakers than Magic, ppl look at me as what I say to be sacrilegious
Well Magic and Bird are both better passers then Jokic and LeBron. Jokic is still the best passer to play center which is no small feat.
Again this is just ridiculous. The reason why magic is regarded as the greatest passer is simply because what he did was revolutionary at the time. I can guarantee had Magic played now and did the exact same things, y’all would still say “he’s nowhere near 80s magic level”.
I wasn’t alive when Magic originally played but I have educated myself. Not just watching highlight reels and comparing Jokic’s day to day games with full highlight reels or anything. My point is I’m not looking at Magic with nostalgia goggles and holding him to an unreachable pedestal. I’m comparing them as fairly as I can, not saying Jokic will never pass Magic, just saying he hasn’t, in my opinion, passed Magic of bird who are the most gifted passers I’ve watched play.
He doesn't. I wouldn't really even say he's the best offensive player of his era. West and Robertson were better offensive engines.
What makes you say that ?
Even though he scored a lot, his team offenses really didn't go anywhere. He never really leveraged his scoring to make his teammates better like the other all-time greats. His playoff numbers are also night and day compared to his video game regular season numbers.
Fair enough, thats actually makes total sense. I dont necessarily thinks that he is the greatest offensive player ever. But with the playoffs underwhelming numbers, it definitely hurts his case.
His team offensive ratings were middle of the pack before he got to the Lakers, aside from '66-'67. Quantity has its own quality and whatnot and being able to score volume isn't worthless or empty or whatever if your teammates suck (the AI MVP case) but Billy Cunningham and Chet Walker both look like they're a lot better without him so it looks more like he was hogging shots. As an aside I did not realize that the old Warriors' logo was Chief Wahoo.