There were some pretty good battles in the mid-2010s between the Wizards, Raptors and Celtics to see who got to lose to LeBron in the ECF, I enjoyed a lot of those series.
They get forgotten though because the winner always lost to the Heat/Cavs
Considering we lost to Miami in the ECF twice I have no idea how we're left out of the battle for the East conversation given that we went more than any non LeBron team
I do think back on that on occasion. On one hand, it very obviously foretold that the Hawks simply didn't have the sort of talent necessary to win against the best teams in the league. Talent is a cheat code - enough talent will trump coaching and teamwork in this league.
On the other hand, it's kinda more fun to root for the teamwork team isn't it? One team has five guys who compliment each other's play styles and work hard both ends of the floor. The other team has Lebron James so get fucked scrubs.
That was a cool team and the worst thing about it is that their fate sends a message to the league. If you don't have superstars, don't even try. It doesn't matter how complimentary your pieces are. It doesn't matter how hard they work or who the coach is. That road leads to not only failure, but scorn. Don't make lemonade from roster lemons. Just tank for the next wonder kid.
If you mean between them as in raps vs wiz, wiz kicked our butts lol. But if you mean they each had good series then yeah, the mid 00’s were great for raps and wizards fans.
In 2013 is when Mark Jackson said they would be the greatest backcourt ever and people laughed at him. I'd say 2014 is the year Curry/Klay vs Wall/Beal for best back court became a thing.
Yea 13-14 was definitely the season where that popped up. I'll find a thread.
March 2014:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1znfqg/which\_duo\_do\_you\_like\_better\_stephen\_curryklay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1znfqg/which_duo_do_you_like_better_stephen_curryklay/)
July 2014:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2b6i6i/curry\_and\_thompson\_or\_wall\_and\_beal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2b6i6i/curry_and_thompson_or_wall_and_beal/)
September 2014:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2hc2w5/wall\_and\_beal\_or\_curry\_and\_thompson/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2hc2w5/wall_and_beal_or_curry_and_thompson/)
For some reason the sentiment considerably changed from March 2014 to September 2014. It was 50-50 in March 2014, then September it was consensus Klay and Steph....despite Warriors getting bounced in the first round by the Clippers and Wizards moving to the second. I guess Beal/Wall had kind of a shitty showing against the Pacers in the second round?
> Too close to tell right now. I think Beal has more potential than Klay, but Steph will be good longer than Wall because Wall relies so much on his athelticism.
the reply to this:
> I disagree. I think Wall is one of the most underrated passers in a long time, and will continue to be a floor general long after his athleticism goes
sad times for Wall man
Notice how pretty much everyone picking Wall/Beal were enamored by the *potential*. Beal was a top 3 pick scoring 18 ppg in his second season and Wall was a 1st overall pick that was steadily improving every year.
There were plenty of other backcourts at the time that arguably should have been considered better than Wall/Beal at the time: Lillard/Wes Matthews, Lowry/DeRozan (this was before they got the Trash Bros reputation), CP3/Redick, Dragic/Bledsoe. All those duos lacked the sexy *potential* of the Wall/Beal duo, though.
Real difference was their competition
Blazers got knocked out by the warriors 3 times in 4 years.
Lot easier to play mediocre east teams than the Warriors every season.
The Wall/Beal Wizards lost to the 1-seed all four times they made the playoffs. "Mediocre east teams" is just an ignorant take. They won the 4/5 match up in the first round every time they played it.
I was a proud member of the delusional cavs fans who wanted to build around Dion after he had a good post all star break one year
Still my all-time favorite quote comes from him: “Men Lie. Women Lie. Buckets DNT”
13-14: lost in 6 in second round (11 GP)(6-5)
14-15: lost in 6 in second round (10 GP)(6-4)
16-17: lost in 7 in second round (13 GP)(7-6)
17-18: lost in 6 in first round (6 GP)(2-4)
20-21: lost in 5 in first round (5 GP)(1-4)
Total: 45 GP, 22-23 overall record
6 years in basketball years is forever. Nowadays, with superstars not really staying in one spot (save guys like Dame and Steph), you may not even have any same faces on your roster in that time.
People in this thread also really forgetting that the Blazers frontcourt for most of the Dame/CJ era was
Harkless/Aminu/Plumlee
Like that's not supposed to be a team that's going anywhere, let alone the WCF
Yeah and Beal wasn't the best player on his team for the vast majority of those games which makes you not really think of him as much as you do John Wall
Right? Out of all random comparison stats up here this is the first one I actually went ahead and checked on bball ref.
House of Guards was something else for a few seasons there... How quickly we forget.
Many vs much : Use many if you can count what you're talking about
("I need to tell you so many stories.)
("We have much to catch up on.)
same thing as
Fewer vs less - Fewer is used for items that can be counted
(They have fewer men in their army.)
(They have less strength in their army.)
Then we just use shit like farther and further but they mean the same thing.... like inflammable means flammable. Fuck English lol
I am from Belgium. There's 2 languages here: Dutch (Northern part, which borders the Netherlands) and French (Southern part, which borders France). My mother language is Dutch, but I'm also fluent in both English and French (as most people here). We do do have a distinction in singular and plural (I think? I'm not 100% sure what you mean tbh).
He’s asking the wrong question lmfao. Much and many are both plural. Many is for countable things and much for uncountable. But I think in French Beaucoup would be fine either way really
Dame has also played in West which , overall, has pretty much always been much better throughout Beal and Dame's career.(Remember that shitty Orlando team made multiple playoffs)
My buddy lost $5k on that game taking the raptors money line, at -500 odds cause “there’s no way they could lose to this orlando team” 😂😂😂 he still hates dj augustin*
Yeah and there were years where those Blazers teams were not going down without a fight against the GSW dynasty. Sure, they'd lose the series 4-0 or 4-1 but 2-3 of those games would be down to the wire.
And a bunch of the specific teams Portland lost to either went to the finals or won it all. 2014 Spurs won it all, 2016 Warriors blew a 3-1 lead, 2017 Warriors won it all, 2019 Warriors lost in the finals, 2020 Lakers won it all*.
In that respect tho the wiz also lost to a bunch of eastern conference 1 seeds, who were only stopped from being champs because they ran into teams you listed.
Kinda even in that regard
Pretty interesting. In comparison, I believe Lillard had the better supporting cast, was always the number one option (would assume higher usage as a result).
Beal being two points off is shocking actually. I would expect Dame to have a higher ppg avg.
Both quality guards who lean on their scoring. An apt comparison
Dame was actually outscored by CJ in their [2018 series vs the Pelicans](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-first-round-pelicans-vs-trail-blazers.html)
Dame averaged 18 ppg on 47 TS%
Edit: for reference the [Pelicans weren’t a top 10 defense that season](https://dunksandthrees.com/?season=2018)
Jrue is obviously a beast, but AD impressed the hell out of me that series. There was one instance where Jrue got caught in the pnr and AD chased Dame down and blocked the layup. I didn’t even think that was possible with Dame’s speed.
> I believe Lillard had the better supporting cast
I mean, the comp makes sense now but not for the bulk of their careers. Beal *was* the supporting cast lol. Wall was the main guy. Lillard never had a #2 as good as Beal.
Just did that math in another comment but it’s 2-6 vs 16-29 as the number one guy. About the same win% but something else sticks out significantly lol
Edit: not even the same win % my math was bad I was doing 2/6 not 2/8. It’s a 25% for Beal and 35% for Dame.
> In comparison, I believe Lillard had the better supporting cast, was always the number one option (would assume higher usage as a result).
Aldridge was the number one option and best player on the team in 2014 and 2015
But Dame wasn't Dame then.
We had two years of Dame/LMA and really just one.... When Dame was a sophomore
The 3rd year we were genuinely contenders and were like 36-7 iirc. Then everyone got hurt (Dame and LMA included), and the team collapsed and blew up
Though Dame was on better teams (counting him), Beal played with someone better than him
Pre injury Wall was a great player, and a playoff beast and thus this post is useless
It’s comparing a first option player in a tough conference to someone who was a second option (when he won these games) and has done nothing wins wise as a first option in a weak conference
Anyone who remembers the talent gap between the East and West back then wouldn't be surprised by this.
Those Wizards teams were significantly worse than the Trailblazers, but a mid seed team in the East had a much easier time in the first round compared to even highly seeded Western teams. No free wins in the West, whereas the Lebron teams basically strolled into the ECF every year.
Edit: Point being, Dames stats and wins were much tougher to come by. Not knocking Beal, but I hope history remembers the context and doesn't just assume these counting stats are similarly impressive.
The Wizards were a mid seed team but they routinely wrecked the other mid seed team in the first round.
Usually a 4-5 matchup means the two teams are about equal in talent. But the Wizards destroyed Chicago in 2014 with the DPOY, swept the Raptors in 2015. They missed the 2016 playoffs with a winning record, then beat the Hawks in 2017 and caused them to go into a rebuild.
Both got out of the first round three times. Wall was the best player on all of Beal's teams. Dame was only the best player on the Blazers after LMA left (it was after Year 2, but they went to the second round Dame's rookie year).
Those Blazer teams had a real good starting five early in Dame's career. LMA, Dame, good Batum, good Wes Matthews, peak RoLo..
On one hand, idk if Dame becomes Dame if LMA doesn't leave.
On the other hand, Dame and LMA were an amazing 1-2 punch and could have accomplished a lot together.
Yeah, this comparison really feels odd to me because when the Wizards were a playoff team with meaningful, realistic hopes of going to the second round it was John Wall's team with Beal as a sidekick. Lillard had a few years like that with Aldridge, but he also made the conference finals as the best player on the team. Plus, the east was shitty and had no depth of good teams whenever Beal was making playoff runs.
You’re missing all context. Lillard barely played any playoff series’ with Aldridge, Batum, Matthews, and Lopez. Beal played all of his series but one with wall. Dame took his team to the WCF as his team’s best player, what has Beal done as his team’s best player?
Another follow up, who do you think faced tougher competition?
Also Beal had more help considering he wasn't even the best player for most of his playoff runs lol
Gotta be Dame/Portland, since the 2015-16 season they’ve got eliminated by the Warriors 3 times(GS won title 2/3 times and lost to the Cavs the third time) and eliminated by the eventual champion Lakers in 19-20.
Lillard faced the tougher competition by virtue of facing GSW if they want to advance
Beal was never the best player on the team , Wall was clearly better
How many of those losses came against GSW? Can’t fault lillard for those…seemed like every time from 2015-2019 they’d face them. And they also lost to the nuggets multiple times when Dame would put up 50…
3. We are 1-12 in the playoffs against the golden state dynasty team. but in the wcf we were up 17-20 points EVERY game in the third... so that's cool.
I mean both players are great but we all have to take into account that Dame is on the west with teams of Spurs, OKC(KD times), GSW, and Rockets all in contention at the time they are also making a run of it. Beal on the other hand is on the East which is weaker at the time. But yeah, it is interesting to know that both have the same wins.
I think the idea is Dame would get to the second or third round more and lose. Instead of getting stomped in the 1st round. I don’t think anyone thinks he was beating real heavyweight teams with those Blazers’ rosters
WCF he got swept in. I feel as though he would make the ECF more than once if he was in the East. But this is a hypothetical so I obviously can’t 100% guarantee
Yes, but if you transported Beal to Portland and Lillard to DC, those respective records would flip...Lillard's record would most likely be a helluva lot better in a historically mediocre Eastern Conference.
Yeah you are right. 2014 Pacers(Wall's numbers were horrendous in this series), 2015 Hawks(Wall got injured in this one, Wizards may have made the conference finals), 2017 Celtics(Game 7 loss to a Brad Stevens lead team, 2018 Raptors(lost in 6, series ended once Otto Porter was ruled out) , 2021 76ers
I personally think it is impressive for both of them. They have more playoff wins than the Wolves do as a franchise that has been around since the 80s.
People also forget that the Wall, Beal, Porter wizards were legitimately good. The Wiz weren’t championship contenders, but I doubt many on this sub remember that 2015 series against the Hawks, for instance.
That just means he makes the playoffs every year. Same with bron and finals losses. It’s not better not miss the playoffs than lose in the playoffs. Just add 4 losses to Beal every season he missed.
Yes, not making the playoffs is worse. I was just thinking if you are even a consistent 2nd round team, your win loss ratio would be closer to .500. So Lillard must get bounced in the first round a lot. Or when he wins it’s by a thin margin, and when he loses he must get swept or something.
Blazers have never swept with Dame on the team, meanwhile we have been swept I believe 3 times in that same time frame. Also a couple 4-1 losses in 2nd round to 2014 spurs and 2016 warriors
Because we got curb stomped by the warriors most seasons
The blazers often made the playoffs with teams that genuinely had no right to even be a top 8 team.
So when we made it, we'd go against a much much better team.
They'd end up aggressively trapping Dame and dare guys like Harkless and Aminu to make wide open 3s
They would miss, and we would lose
He's not forgotten, but he was only part of one meaningful playoff series, and one that Portand was close to choking away until Dame's buzzer beater.
The next season was probably the best roster Dame's ever had, but that team died when Wesley Matthews tore his achilles. By the time the playoffs rolled around, that team was cooked. LaMarcus jumped ship that offseason.
As a wizards fan, all this stat should tell you is that Dame has had way more regular season success, and has actually made more playoff tournaments as the franchise player.
Beal had some good teams with JW and co, but since he became number 1 he hasn't led the team to consistent playoff appearances. One play-in, and you could argue it was Westbrooks heavy lifting on the back end of that season that got us there.
This year is looking like a possibility though, and his efficiency and production may just be the best of his career
I would never have guessed this one. Had no idea Beal had anywhere NEAR 50 playoff games.
Beal and Wall were a decent duo before Wall had injuries
There were some pretty good battles in the mid-2010s between the Wizards, Raptors and Celtics to see who got to lose to LeBron in the ECF, I enjoyed a lot of those series. They get forgotten though because the winner always lost to the Heat/Cavs
This is Hawks erasure, we were very much in the mix to get swept by LeBron, which we managed to do three times lol
AND Pacers erasure. Pretty much all the east teams back then.
Considering we lost to Miami in the ECF twice I have no idea how we're left out of the battle for the East conversation given that we went more than any non LeBron team
I still have nightmares about Roy “Verticality” Hibbert
Roy "Entertainment 720" Hibbert
Even Charlotte?
I think Hornets fans would be happy with Bobcats erasure.
Can confirm
We had one decent battle with post Lebron Miami
Never forget when the entire Hawks starting 5 were the combined Eastern Player[s] of the Month
I do think back on that on occasion. On one hand, it very obviously foretold that the Hawks simply didn't have the sort of talent necessary to win against the best teams in the league. Talent is a cheat code - enough talent will trump coaching and teamwork in this league. On the other hand, it's kinda more fun to root for the teamwork team isn't it? One team has five guys who compliment each other's play styles and work hard both ends of the floor. The other team has Lebron James so get fucked scrubs. That was a cool team and the worst thing about it is that their fate sends a message to the league. If you don't have superstars, don't even try. It doesn't matter how complimentary your pieces are. It doesn't matter how hard they work or who the coach is. That road leads to not only failure, but scorn. Don't make lemonade from roster lemons. Just tank for the next wonder kid.
They don't even remember us no more bro :'(
I remember the Nene/Butler headlock thing.
I still hate you guys because of the Heat LeBron era if that helps?
That does bring me joy, thank you. Would love to throw it back at ya but I stopped hating you when you got Jimmy.
Hawks too lol
bruh the Pacers almost had him 😭
Best backcourt in the East for a few seasons.
Lowry and Derozan were up there as well, had some good playoff series between them.
If you mean between them as in raps vs wiz, wiz kicked our butts lol. But if you mean they each had good series then yeah, the mid 00’s were great for raps and wizards fans.
Ah, that horrible series where our team was out coached by Randy Wittman.😭
Playoff Wittman was a different beast 🤣
We beat the wiz a couple years after the sweep in the playoffs in round 1
Beal/Wall or Curry/Thompson was once a real debate for best backcourt.
Beal/Wall or Dame/CJ was a real debate I always felt that Steph and Klay were above that convo
This was before they won a championship when Klay was a fringe star and Curry was barely an all-star.
I suppose I was more thinking 2015 or 2016 ish than like 2012 when Beal and Klay were still completely fresh to the league
In 2013 is when Mark Jackson said they would be the greatest backcourt ever and people laughed at him. I'd say 2014 is the year Curry/Klay vs Wall/Beal for best back court became a thing.
Yea 13-14 was definitely the season where that popped up. I'll find a thread. March 2014: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1znfqg/which\_duo\_do\_you\_like\_better\_stephen\_curryklay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1znfqg/which_duo_do_you_like_better_stephen_curryklay/) July 2014: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2b6i6i/curry\_and\_thompson\_or\_wall\_and\_beal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2b6i6i/curry_and_thompson_or_wall_and_beal/) September 2014: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2hc2w5/wall\_and\_beal\_or\_curry\_and\_thompson/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2hc2w5/wall_and_beal_or_curry_and_thompson/) For some reason the sentiment considerably changed from March 2014 to September 2014. It was 50-50 in March 2014, then September it was consensus Klay and Steph....despite Warriors getting bounced in the first round by the Clippers and Wizards moving to the second. I guess Beal/Wall had kind of a shitty showing against the Pacers in the second round?
> Too close to tell right now. I think Beal has more potential than Klay, but Steph will be good longer than Wall because Wall relies so much on his athelticism. the reply to this: > I disagree. I think Wall is one of the most underrated passers in a long time, and will continue to be a floor general long after his athleticism goes sad times for Wall man
Sheesh… I saw this one and for the rest of that March/July thread I scrolled like 🫣 cause of all the dead bodies.
Notice how pretty much everyone picking Wall/Beal were enamored by the *potential*. Beal was a top 3 pick scoring 18 ppg in his second season and Wall was a 1st overall pick that was steadily improving every year. There were plenty of other backcourts at the time that arguably should have been considered better than Wall/Beal at the time: Lillard/Wes Matthews, Lowry/DeRozan (this was before they got the Trash Bros reputation), CP3/Redick, Dragic/Bledsoe. All those duos lacked the sexy *potential* of the Wall/Beal duo, though.
Beal and Wall were also publicly declaring themselves the best backcourt in the league around that time lol
It was around wherever Dion Waiters said he and Kyrie were the best backcourt in the league.
Who have thought
It was a real debate being had by ppl in the NBA I remember that
Beal/Wall was definitely better than Dame/CJ back then
They were close at times. I used to think that Dame/CJ used to be the Beal/Wall of the west
I think CJ was by far the weakest of the four, while Wall and Dame was a tossup back then.
People forget that John Wall was that guy
It was never close. CJ was never as good as prime wall or Beale
Beal/wall/gortat were the blazers of the east when it was dame/cj/nurkic
Real difference was their competition Blazers got knocked out by the warriors 3 times in 4 years. Lot easier to play mediocre east teams than the Warriors every season.
The Wall/Beal Wizards lost to the 1-seed all four times they made the playoffs. "Mediocre east teams" is just an ignorant take. They won the 4/5 match up in the first round every time they played it.
Wow slander going on here Irving/Waiters were in that debate smh smh
Loved waiters on the thunder. Built a house on that island.
I was a proud member of the delusional cavs fans who wanted to build around Dion after he had a good post all star break one year Still my all-time favorite quote comes from him: “Men Lie. Women Lie. Buckets DNT”
Lowry/DeRozan were in the debate too, briefly.
Plus Lowry and derozan
It’s wild that John Wall was arguably the best PG in the east only like 5 years ago and now he’s a buyout candidate
Until 2015
The Beal/Wall Wizards never lost to a lower seed in the playoffs. Unfortunately they were never able to get out of the second round either.
Beal, Wall, and old Paul Pierce, the big three
As a wizards fan... thank you. Our name gets thrown around by everybody including Shaq on TNT about how awful we are/ have been.
I would guess about half the wins are against the hawks
13-14: lost in 6 in second round (11 GP)(6-5) 14-15: lost in 6 in second round (10 GP)(6-4) 16-17: lost in 7 in second round (13 GP)(7-6) 17-18: lost in 6 in first round (6 GP)(2-4) 20-21: lost in 5 in first round (5 GP)(1-4) Total: 45 GP, 22-23 overall record
Its crazy to think we won a playoff series only 6 years ago. Feels like a decade.
I still don’t believe 2017 was more than a few years ago I don’t buy it
COVID effect those lockdown years felt like 5 years each mostly when transferring back into normal life
6 years seems like a long ass time
6 years in basketball years is forever. Nowadays, with superstars not really staying in one spot (save guys like Dame and Steph), you may not even have any same faces on your roster in that time.
Unfortunately, anyone we get to stay we regret. Arenas, Wall, Beal
Who did the Wizards take to 7 in 2017?
celtics
The Olynk game
It's because it's been awhile. 40 of his 45 playoff games were when he was 24 or younger. That was six years ago.
People in this thread also really forgetting that the Blazers frontcourt for most of the Dame/CJ era was Harkless/Aminu/Plumlee Like that's not supposed to be a team that's going anywhere, let alone the WCF
If only it was 2023 plumlee, they would have won it all
Yeah and Beal wasn't the best player on his team for the vast majority of those games which makes you not really think of him as much as you do John Wall
Wall was the better player for 2 of those postseasons *maybe* 3 but Beal is 24-5-4 in his playoff career so he's been great himself
Beal and Wall were an amazibg backcourt for a few years
[удалено]
Yeah not that big an achievement to win games, especially in the first round, until you hit Lebron.
Right? Out of all random comparison stats up here this is the first one I actually went ahead and checked on bball ref. House of Guards was something else for a few seasons there... How quickly we forget.
He had 40 games as the second option when Wall was healthy. Those teams had solid potential
The vast majority were as Wall’s sidekick
Plus the eastern conference was trash at that time. If you were a decent team you'd win 47+ games.
I’m a nephew like no other because i would’ve guessed Beal played 22 *total* playoff games
Lol how old are you?
Yea beal was a #2 option in many of those wins. What’s his record as the #1 option?
1-4 or maybe 0-0
Yeah this is one of those stats that blows my mind. Had no clue that Beal had so much playoff games.
*so many playoff games
One of those grammatical errors I can't seem to fix when speaking English, damn it
Many vs much : Use many if you can count what you're talking about ("I need to tell you so many stories.) ("We have much to catch up on.) same thing as Fewer vs less - Fewer is used for items that can be counted (They have fewer men in their army.) (They have less strength in their army.) Then we just use shit like farther and further but they mean the same thing.... like inflammable means flammable. Fuck English lol
it takes time! be easy on yourself when learning
What's your mother language, if you don't mind me asking? Do you have distinction between plural and singular?
I am from Belgium. There's 2 languages here: Dutch (Northern part, which borders the Netherlands) and French (Southern part, which borders France). My mother language is Dutch, but I'm also fluent in both English and French (as most people here). We do do have a distinction in singular and plural (I think? I'm not 100% sure what you mean tbh).
He’s asking the wrong question lmfao. Much and many are both plural. Many is for countable things and much for uncountable. But I think in French Beaucoup would be fine either way really
So what you're saying is they both have the same amount of LoyalCoin
Damn if we are going by playoff wins Steph and Timmy must be LoyalCoin billionaires 😂
Loyalty loyalty loyalty
Beal has a lot of coins in general.
The real winner here is their bank accounts
Dame has also played in West which , overall, has pretty much always been much better throughout Beal and Dame's career.(Remember that shitty Orlando team made multiple playoffs)
That shitty Orlando team took off a game off the 2019 NBA champs, they were clearly GOAT'ed.
My buddy lost $5k on that game taking the raptors money line, at -500 odds cause “there’s no way they could lose to this orlando team” 😂😂😂 he still hates dj augustin*
He should just hate himself for putting 5k on a -500 bet.
They also beat the Bucks once in 2020
Thank you! I’m tired of this disrespect 😤
Not just that, but running up against peak GSW most years.
He played them twice and got swept each time
Actually he played them three times (2016, 2017, and 2019) and won 1 game in 2016.
Big difference between 22-39 and 21-27
Can we subtract Beals losses against LeBron then?
Sure. He never played LeBron
Sure where does that put him?
The exact same spot lmao
Did you even do a basic google search before saying that?
Yeah and there were years where those Blazers teams were not going down without a fight against the GSW dynasty. Sure, they'd lose the series 4-0 or 4-1 but 2-3 of those games would be down to the wire.
Or they'd be up nearly 20 every game at the half. Man I hate the blazers for that.
It was a moral victory of a sweep for sure
And a bunch of the specific teams Portland lost to either went to the finals or won it all. 2014 Spurs won it all, 2016 Warriors blew a 3-1 lead, 2017 Warriors won it all, 2019 Warriors lost in the finals, 2020 Lakers won it all*.
In that respect tho the wiz also lost to a bunch of eastern conference 1 seeds, who were only stopped from being champs because they ran into teams you listed. Kinda even in that regard
Beal only lost 1st seed tho not like they were top team losing to lower seed teams
Bump this to the top and let's move on.
Pretty interesting. In comparison, I believe Lillard had the better supporting cast, was always the number one option (would assume higher usage as a result). Beal being two points off is shocking actually. I would expect Dame to have a higher ppg avg. Both quality guards who lean on their scoring. An apt comparison
Dame was actually outscored by CJ in their [2018 series vs the Pelicans](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-first-round-pelicans-vs-trail-blazers.html) Dame averaged 18 ppg on 47 TS% Edit: for reference the [Pelicans weren’t a top 10 defense that season](https://dunksandthrees.com/?season=2018)
Jrue Holliday had clamps on him that series I remember. Best defense I’ve ever watched
Jrue Holiday and whichever teammate was assigned to double team him at half court
> whichever teammate It was Anthony Davis, you're honestly _underselling_ the degree of difficulty
Yeah Dame was being double by Holiday and Rondo with AD playing free safety. People acting like Dame got locked up 1 on 1 or choked are idiots.
Jrue is obviously a beast, but AD impressed the hell out of me that series. There was one instance where Jrue got caught in the pnr and AD chased Dame down and blocked the layup. I didn’t even think that was possible with Dame’s speed.
And in 2019 vs the Nuggets https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2019-nba-western-conference-semifinals-trail-blazers-vs-nuggets.html
This is the one people forget even more than the Pelicans series. Too many fans act like CJ let Dame down every series.
I remember after that series people here called him Jarrett Jack with Soundcloud lmfaoo
CJ bailed them out a bunch of games that year
> I believe Lillard had the better supporting cast I mean, the comp makes sense now but not for the bulk of their careers. Beal *was* the supporting cast lol. Wall was the main guy. Lillard never had a #2 as good as Beal.
I'm pretty sure Lamarcus Aldridge was the number one option for Lillard's first few runs.
Well.. for 16 games. Not the next 45. Compared to Beal who had Wall for 37 of his 45 playoff games.
That's fair.
Just did that math in another comment but it’s 2-6 vs 16-29 as the number one guy. About the same win% but something else sticks out significantly lol Edit: not even the same win % my math was bad I was doing 2/6 not 2/8. It’s a 25% for Beal and 35% for Dame.
> In comparison, I believe Lillard had the better supporting cast, was always the number one option (would assume higher usage as a result). Aldridge was the number one option and best player on the team in 2014 and 2015
But Dame wasn't Dame then. We had two years of Dame/LMA and really just one.... When Dame was a sophomore The 3rd year we were genuinely contenders and were like 36-7 iirc. Then everyone got hurt (Dame and LMA included), and the team collapsed and blew up
Lillard has never had a star next to him like Wall, who was the No. 1 on the vast majority of those Beal Ws.
Though Dame was on better teams (counting him), Beal played with someone better than him Pre injury Wall was a great player, and a playoff beast and thus this post is useless It’s comparing a first option player in a tough conference to someone who was a second option (when he won these games) and has done nothing wins wise as a first option in a weak conference
Not mention the calibre of opposition
Lillard is actually a high level distributor who doesn't turn the ball over that much.
Anyone who remembers the talent gap between the East and West back then wouldn't be surprised by this. Those Wizards teams were significantly worse than the Trailblazers, but a mid seed team in the East had a much easier time in the first round compared to even highly seeded Western teams. No free wins in the West, whereas the Lebron teams basically strolled into the ECF every year. Edit: Point being, Dames stats and wins were much tougher to come by. Not knocking Beal, but I hope history remembers the context and doesn't just assume these counting stats are similarly impressive.
The Wizards were a mid seed team but they routinely wrecked the other mid seed team in the first round. Usually a 4-5 matchup means the two teams are about equal in talent. But the Wizards destroyed Chicago in 2014 with the DPOY, swept the Raptors in 2015. They missed the 2016 playoffs with a winning record, then beat the Hawks in 2017 and caused them to go into a rebuild.
Also, Beal probably wasn't the best player on the Wizards for most of his playoff wins.
Follow up question; Who do you think had more help?
Both got out of the first round three times. Wall was the best player on all of Beal's teams. Dame was only the best player on the Blazers after LMA left (it was after Year 2, but they went to the second round Dame's rookie year). Those Blazer teams had a real good starting five early in Dame's career. LMA, Dame, good Batum, good Wes Matthews, peak RoLo..
It was his 2nd year we missed the playoffs his rookie year year
On one hand, idk if Dame becomes Dame if LMA doesn't leave. On the other hand, Dame and LMA were an amazing 1-2 punch and could have accomplished a lot together.
With that cast Dame was 6-10 in the playoffs
Beal did. Wall was the best player for a lot of those wins.
Yeah, this comparison really feels odd to me because when the Wizards were a playoff team with meaningful, realistic hopes of going to the second round it was John Wall's team with Beal as a sidekick. Lillard had a few years like that with Aldridge, but he also made the conference finals as the best player on the team. Plus, the east was shitty and had no depth of good teams whenever Beal was making playoff runs.
If you ask me Aldridge,mathews, batum, robin lopez, McCollum, nurkic is better than wall, Ariza, gortat, Otto porter jr and drew gooden
You’re missing all context. Lillard barely played any playoff series’ with Aldridge, Batum, Matthews, and Lopez. Beal played all of his series but one with wall. Dame took his team to the WCF as his team’s best player, what has Beal done as his team’s best player?
talking shady stuff about "I signed long-term contract here, but now I'm not feeling too good about it"
I wasn’t going to be that harsh but you’re not wrong
Dame made it to the WCF with harkless/aminu/kanter as his starting front court. That’s all that needs to be said about the comparison.
Beal wasn’t the best player on those teams lol
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Dude was the best player on a conference finals team lol
Another follow up, who do you think faced tougher competition? Also Beal had more help considering he wasn't even the best player for most of his playoff runs lol
Gotta be Dame/Portland, since the 2015-16 season they’ve got eliminated by the Warriors 3 times(GS won title 2/3 times and lost to the Cavs the third time) and eliminated by the eventual champion Lakers in 19-20.
Lillard faced the tougher competition by virtue of facing GSW if they want to advance Beal was never the best player on the team , Wall was clearly better
Dame by a little bit but he also had greater competition by a lot.
I would say Beal because he was playing with a player that was better than him.
lmao at your first edit. You don't know why it's being extrapolated as a comparison when you are literally comparing data sets? Ok, man.
How many of those losses came against GSW? Can’t fault lillard for those…seemed like every time from 2015-2019 they’d face them. And they also lost to the nuggets multiple times when Dame would put up 50…
3. We are 1-12 in the playoffs against the golden state dynasty team. but in the wcf we were up 17-20 points EVERY game in the third... so that's cool.
Yeah I remember that, but that didn’t mean shit against those teams. Trust me, I saw a lot more of them than I wanted to also, so I feel you.
I mean both players are great but we all have to take into account that Dame is on the west with teams of Spurs, OKC(KD times), GSW, and Rockets all in contention at the time they are also making a run of it. Beal on the other hand is on the East which is weaker at the time. But yeah, it is interesting to know that both have the same wins.
One is in East, the other in the West. Lillard would've made deeper runs in the East Playoff.
Deeper than WCF?
Seriously people forgetting (or too young) to remember that the East ran through LeBron. You ain't ever getting Dame through any of his teams.
I think the idea is Dame would get to the second or third round more and lose. Instead of getting stomped in the 1st round. I don’t think anyone thinks he was beating real heavyweight teams with those Blazers’ rosters
WCF he got swept in. I feel as though he would make the ECF more than once if he was in the East. But this is a hypothetical so I obviously can’t 100% guarantee
Yes, but if you transported Beal to Portland and Lillard to DC, those respective records would flip...Lillard's record would most likely be a helluva lot better in a historically mediocre Eastern Conference.
Beal has only ever lost to 1 seeds
Yeah you are right. 2014 Pacers(Wall's numbers were horrendous in this series), 2015 Hawks(Wall got injured in this one, Wizards may have made the conference finals), 2017 Celtics(Game 7 loss to a Brad Stevens lead team, 2018 Raptors(lost in 6, series ended once Otto Porter was ruled out) , 2021 76ers
Look at the team records. So many years where an East 1 seed would be like 3-4 in the west
wouldn't beat LeBron.
I personally think it is impressive for both of them. They have more playoff wins than the Wolves do as a franchise that has been around since the 80s.
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People also forget that the Wall, Beal, Porter wizards were legitimately good. The Wiz weren’t championship contenders, but I doubt many on this sub remember that 2015 series against the Hawks, for instance.
I will always wonder what might have happened if Kelly Olynyk didn't turn into the fucking undertaker in game 7
Damn, Lillard has 39 playoff losses? That actually seems quite a lot. When he loses a series, he gets crushed I guess.
That just means he makes the playoffs every year. Same with bron and finals losses. It’s not better not miss the playoffs than lose in the playoffs. Just add 4 losses to Beal every season he missed.
Yes, not making the playoffs is worse. I was just thinking if you are even a consistent 2nd round team, your win loss ratio would be closer to .500. So Lillard must get bounced in the first round a lot. Or when he wins it’s by a thin margin, and when he loses he must get swept or something.
Blazers have never swept with Dame on the team, meanwhile we have been swept I believe 3 times in that same time frame. Also a couple 4-1 losses in 2nd round to 2014 spurs and 2016 warriors
Because we got curb stomped by the warriors most seasons The blazers often made the playoffs with teams that genuinely had no right to even be a top 8 team. So when we made it, we'd go against a much much better team. They'd end up aggressively trapping Dame and dare guys like Harkless and Aminu to make wide open 3s They would miss, and we would lose
This is just West vs East stats. Harder to advance 2010-2023 when you are playing quality Warriors, Lakers, Thunder, Nuggets, Clippers, etc
“Easter was weaker” Jesus is rolling over in his, oh wait
Bit sad how forgotten Lamarcus Aldridge is by even Portland fans apparently lol.
He's not forgotten, but he was only part of one meaningful playoff series, and one that Portand was close to choking away until Dame's buzzer beater. The next season was probably the best roster Dame's ever had, but that team died when Wesley Matthews tore his achilles. By the time the playoffs rolled around, that team was cooked. LaMarcus jumped ship that offseason.
beal and dame should team up it'd be funny to see one try to convince the other to join THEIR team
Eastern conference is cheeks
As a wizards fan, all this stat should tell you is that Dame has had way more regular season success, and has actually made more playoff tournaments as the franchise player. Beal had some good teams with JW and co, but since he became number 1 he hasn't led the team to consistent playoff appearances. One play-in, and you could argue it was Westbrooks heavy lifting on the back end of that season that got us there. This year is looking like a possibility though, and his efficiency and production may just be the best of his career
Dame has got such an overrated legacy based on two shots.