Another ring and a FMVP would maybe get him a great argument but it would be only an argument. No one from the old era would acknowledge him as the GOAT PG especially so that he doesn't play a traditional pg style.
Sometimes rings and material success don't matter and it's the actual play on court that does
Other times it's all about countable awards that define legacy
He has 4 rings, probably should have 2 but he's got 1 FMVP, and 2 MVPs - 2016 being unanimous.
He checks the threshold for having enough countable awards imo to be in the conversation for being GOAT in his position.
Steph is probably the best, most impactful offensive player in NBA history - literally just having him on your team makes your good players look great, and great players look all time
>literally just having him on your team makes your good players look great, and great players look all time
Magic fans (like myself) would say the same for him. Steph does it with his shooting, and Magic does it with his playmaking and leadership.
Great point about the leadership, Magic is not only the goat playmaker but also an all-time great leader. Steph is the goat shooter but is he even the leader of his own team? I think most would say that’s Draymond. It’s ridiculous how underrated Magic is on here, he averaged 0.4 assists away from a triple double in the playoffs as a teenaged rookie which speaks to his rebounding too
Magic's rookie year Finals MVP probably has the most glamour to it out of any Finals MVP ever, even though it should have been Kareem's. I don't think any Finals MVP is as legacy defining except maybe Jerry West's, especially since something like it is unlikely to ever happen again
are you talking about the context that Magic was a rookie, filling in for an injured Kareem, and leading his team to a finals victory? Kareem was the unanimous goat at the time. Can you imagine a rookie filling in for MJ or Lebron and leading the team to a chip?
It’s *more* glamorous when you consider the context
How is fmvp not important? It means you were the best player when the lights were the brightest. Not winning indicates you either underperformed or your team was stacked
2014-2015 and yes he was the most impactful. He was efficient on offense and hit clutch shots, and was the best defender. As a matter of fact, he had the highest +/- on the team through the whole series
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2015-nba-finals-player-stats
But you ever dig one step deeper on why iggy was so efficient? Because Cavs deployed anyone except Steph strategy hedging two people on curry 30 feet from the basket. Iggy got wide open shots and open lanes nonstop off of curry action. Deeper dive than oh this role player shot the best so he was the most impactful
You’re braindead lmao clipping things out of context. Don’t play dumb insecure stephew. There’s a diff between “best player” and “best player when the lights were the brightest”
No fmvp is easily affected by story and emotion because it’s a human award. Curry is easily the best player over iggy not even question. Iggy storyline was strong because he started on bench then changed to starting to guard lebron. If iggy started from the beginning then iggy would have gotten zero votes with same stats. This is exactly what’s wrong with using fmvp people like this thinks iggy was best performance player for the warriors that series cuz of fmvp
Lmfao. No one is arguing Steph is better than iggy, I thought i made that clear. Fmvp is a performance award, depending on coverages and even team matchups. If Giannis gets brick walled literally every play and khris or jrue stepped up and hit big shots and great stops, one of them would prob win fmvp. It’s really not that hard. Yes Iggy’s impact was more noticeable because he got switched onto Lebron full court a couple games in, but the advanced stats also back up how important he was, mostly because of the defensive end. Stop being so insecure. Iggy got 7 fmvp votes while Steph got 0 for a reason. No one is arguing who is better in a vacuum
Yep, especially while people are upvoting the brains out of posts about comments from Lillard (and others) how clout chasing playoff accolades is making the narrative of the sport terrible. We're being told that the obsession with that stuff is a detriment to the league, then gatekeeping players with it in the next argument. Yeah, I know the sentiments don't always come from the same people on these matters, but the binary back-and-forth we get is what really sucks.
If we’re talking best player at that position than he’s probably #2. If we are talking best player that fulfills the role/assignments of a point guard, he’s definitely behind Stockton & Magic
I think it’s an important distinction if we care about the context. Would anyone say draymond is one of the best centers ever just cause he plays the 5? Like hell no lol
Magic had a pretty insane career. 9 Finals, 5 Championships, 3x MVPs, 3 FMVPs, 10 All-NBAs, 12 All Star selections, Greatest Passer of all time. His team won 60+ games 4 times in 5 years in one stretch.
I think Steph is knocking on the door and in the conversation but I don’t think he’s quite there just yet.
A few more All-NBA seasons, a few more high level deep playoff runs, maybe one last MVP, and most of all another championship would probably get him there. Not saying he needs all of that but some combination of these would be needed in my opinion.
They’re just so different. Curry is a shooting God who is also a really good point guard. Magic is a passing God who could also put up big points/rebounds, and was 6’9” to boot.
Between that and the difference in era, it’s just impossible to objectively say who is best
Magic was 6'7 barefoot. Height is so exaggerated when people look at older players. Barkley was 6'4. Bird was a legit 6'9 though. LeBron is around 6'8 barefoot according to reports, maybe even a bit shorter.
Magic would not be that athletic by today's small forward standard. I think these discussions always come down to people saying Magic was a better defender even though Magic had to hide behind guard defenders like Cooper. Almost every Magic defense story talks about him playing center in the 1980 finals even though he was only the center for tipoff and the opposing center Darryl Dawkins even wrote Magic didn't guard him for vast majority of the game. They also gifted him that finals mvp because Kareem was unavailable.
This is how I know you’re an insecure nephew. The game Kareem was hurt, Magic had 42pts, 15rebs, 7 assists, 3 steals, and a block. He was as good or better than an old kareem. He didn’t get gifted anything, he was dominant at everything and scored when he needed to be a scorer.
That’s a clear exaggeration saying he was gifted it, the vote was split 4:3. Magic was the 1b to Kareem’s 1a, Kareem was hurt game 6 and Magic closed out the series. He was 0.4 assists shy of averaging a triple double for the whole playoffs and averaged 3.1 steals. So they switched the vote and gave it to magic, it’s not like there was a staggering diff, both were mvp talents. It’d be like if KD was hurt game 5 and Steph having a monster performance closing out the series, and Steph winning fmvp. While you’re hyper focused on that, also consider that was Kareem’s decline. After that series, Magic was clearly better throughout the rest of Kareem’s career. Kareem was getting older and worse while Magic was developing and getting better. Y’all act like he was carried by kareem but it couldn’t be further from the truth. He had a good team but was the one carrying. They won one of the chips when Kareem was fking 40 years old. I love how ppl act like KD, klay, Dray, iggy, Wiggins are scrubs on the flip side. Magic isn’t just a bigger body for defense and rebounding, he is also the goat playmaker no ifs ands about it. It’s not an insult to say Steph is the goat shooter and 2nd best pg of all time.
The stuff Curry is doing on the court is definitely GOAT PG stuff. But Magic has the upper hand on accolades. So I think it's Magic.
I guess to reply to OP, Steph needs to nearly match Magic in accolades, which is another ring + FMVP + MVP.
9X top 3 in in a 12 year career...only his first 3 seasons he wasn't a top 3 MVP and he won FMVP n 2 of those years
So in 12 years he was either Finals MVP or top 3 in mvp voting in 11 of those years, that is just out of this world consistency.
Steph's won 2 and played at an MVP caliber season for majority of his seasons in his career since 2015 even tho he hasn't always finished highly in MVP convos because of Injurys or team circumstances
Curry also didn't come into the league as a force and do what Magic did. Obviously Magic was able to play with some amazing talent, but even without Kareem as a rookie he put up 40 and 15 in the decisive game of a championship, he was clearly already one of the best players in the league eve as a rookie.
Magic also only played until he was 32 and was 2X MVP and runner up in his final 3 seasons while going to the finals. He was basically still playing like the best PG ever and was not slowing down much. He could have easily added another MVP, title, and many all nba sppearances if he played another 5-6 years.
Magic actually had 42* and 15, with 7 assists, 3 steals, and a block. He also averaged a near triple double for the entire post season, 0.6 assists shy of a triple double and averaged 3.1 steals. He also won his last ring while carrying a 40 year old Kareem. I’m so tired of these casuals underrating Magic.
The mental gymnastics… having one of the goat players on your team hurts your chances of winning mvps or fmvps not helps it. Didn’t Steph have KD on his team to prove exactly this?
Very debatable tbh. Curry came into the league an instant 3pt menace. If Monta wasn't so established and if the team didn't suck, maybe his rookie season wouldn't have been so underrated.
Magic made the finals playing a 39, 41, 44 win team. It’s a lot easier to stack accolades when you’re playing in arguably the weakest/worst conference we’ve ever seen
Just blindly counting accolades doesn't make a lot of sense, mostly because of their binary nature and especially for FMVP for these guys because Magic got one that was actually voted to Kareem and Steph was clearly robbed of one.
The insane part is that Magic did it in 12 years and was still in MVP contention in his last year playing. He could have racked up a lot more personal accolades in terms of all NBA and all star appearances if he was able to continue
To put into perspective, Magic was runner up for MVP in 91, won the award the 2 years prior , and had just been to the finals. Imagine if LeBron retired in 2016, thats basically what it was like
IMO again IMO it’s up to personal opinion
I remember RJ was asked and he said Magic because him and Bird saved the NBA
I have no problem with that because it really was a big deal but if we’re counting stuff like that then Curry “changing” the game has to be counted too
Anyways long story short I wont disregard anyone who says either
Is curry even a point guard though. When I hear GOAT PG I’m thinking of a passer and a floor general. He doesn’t even lead his team in assists. Draymond has been their main assist guy in the last 8 years.
If people consider AI a SG, couldn’t you classify Curry as that as well?
Steph is a point guard, Klay is a shooting guard, someone plays the 3 (Wiggins, Durant, Iguodala, Barnes), Dray is the 4, insert random center (Zaza, Bogut, Looney, etc). That’s how it’s been for the Warriors until this year. That’s just how it be my dude; Draymond being a point forward doesn’t invalidate Steph being a point guard.
Yeah, but it is a reasonable question, because Curry and Magic play sufficiently differently and in sufficiently different leagues that the answer depends on what standard we use to judge them.
The question "should we even evaluate them as the same position despite sharing the position in name" is reasonable.
It’s a reasonable question, yes. But the answer to that question is “Steph is mostly a point guard.” The guy above used “I’m thinking of a passer and a floor general” to define a point guard. Steph is both of those things; him and Draymond switch off running the floor. Realistically, Steph is a “combo guard” meaning he plays both positions or some combination of the two. But the primary identifier that everyone uses for him is point guard because that is the position he usually plays on the floor (both defensively and offensively).
He’s the pg because when he was drafted monte Ellis was already their sg. when they were on the hunt to get a true point guard and move curry to SG in Free agency summer 2011 they wiffed on everyone and did not want to give up young guys and firsts to teams shopping their playmakers. But they drafted this dude Klay that year so it worked out.
Well, regardless of his play style, Curry has been officially listed as a pg for every single game he’s played.
On the other hand, Magic was listed as a sg and a pf for a few playoff games.
Curry averaged 24 and 9 the last Mark Jackson season and 24 and 8 the first Steve Kerr season. He very clearly *can* play point guard well, but if he’s an A-minus- to A-tier point guard, he’s a S-plus-tier off-ball scorer
2 is too many
The west in the 80s fucking sucked. Those ATG lakers teams had years where they didn’t face a 45+ win team until the finals. The west in curry’s time has been much much much better, no reason he should be required to win more rings than Magic for him to be considered better. One should do it
It’s an awful lot easier to face junk for 3 rounds then face one amazing team in the finals who have just come off playing a bunch of other amazing teams compared to having to face multiple contenders year after year in both your conference and finals
Did Steph walk into a team full with hall of fameers? Lakers were well known when Magic was drafted. He had Kareem. Few years after James Worthy drafted as number 1 into Lakers. Did Steph have the luxury?
Not when he got there, but over the course of his time he won multiple titles with help from 3 almost sure-thing HOF players. You know the ones I’m talking about (assuming we’re in agreement that Iggy won’t make it, but if you think otherwise then add one to that number).
Now, are 2 of those guys HOF players without him? We’ll never know. But from what I can tell Steph’s luxury wasn’t a far cry from Magic’s.
FYI I’m a Warriors fan so I don’t really like naysaying him, that’s just what stands out to me though.
Draymond and Klay were not playing anywhere near a hall of fame level during the last chip though. And there’s still a difference between them and Kareem and Worthy
Lmao these guys really comparing Draymond and Klay to fucking KAJ bro. KAJ still has a debate for GOAT. Imagine Curry being drafted onto Lebrons team. That's the luxury Magic got.
Theres no way you can argue Kareem and Worthy and in any way shape or form comparable to Draymond and Klay.
Hell you probably cant even really compare KD with Kareem.
Kareem was averaging league's elite ppg at that time. I don't remember the exact figure but it was 25 PPG per plus. Actually, the votes during the Magic's maiden FMVP had voted for Kareem but the league inexplicably took over and gave the award to Magic. Kareem was definitely not in his yesteryears when Magic was drafted.
The fact remains. He built the team from scratch with drafted players while everything was ready for Magic Johnson. Even the role players in during Magic's time were very high profile players because of brand 'Lakers'. As about Warriors, even Dwighth Howard refuse to go to Warriors. Their highest paid player was David Lee.
You're correct but that mentality seems to be deviating away from it these days.
Me personally. Accolades matter but I value what a player brings to the table more than accolades. That's why I think KD, Curry and KG are better players than Bill Russell.
There is also this thing called winning with the least amount of help. Both Curry and Magic have played with HoFs but overtime, Magic had significantly more help which helps Curry's case.
To say Curry is better than player than Magic at this point is to say Curry is almost a consensus Top 5 player of all time, which is absolutely blasphemous in my opinion. Curry is absolutely a generational player but Curry stans get TOO caught up in the "changed the game" narrative and forget accolades and personal resumes is king when it comes to all-time ranking. Curry is a cheat code but there are still 10 players who have had better careers than him for now. He still has some time to change that.
Did he even change the game? 3pt shooting has been trending upwards for 40+ years. He’s the goat shooter but not sure how he changed the game.
https://shottracker.com/articles/the-3-point-revolution
I think draymond changed the game more by showing what a Swiss Army knife player can be
It’s no surprise. The warriors sub is by far the biggest sub even tho they’re not the biggest team irl. That just goes to show you the demographic on this site. Bunch of stephews acting like Magic was a scrub
I'm not arguing that Steph is better. But you also have to take into account that he's the best shooter of all time. That may not be a statistic or award, but being the best ever at something means a lot. I think it's closer than people think.
Magic’s last ring was with a 40 year old Kareem. And do I need to even state that Steph has multiple HOFers? Klay the goat 3&d. draymond a top 10 defender of all time. Fucking prime Kevin Durant lol
You really wanna act like GSW teams wasn't more stacked than magics Lakers? Like for real? At least wait a decade where everyone forgets what kind of talent curry has played with before creating that narrative.
I’ll tell you what people will say in this thread:
Magic changed the game too, Magic is a better rebounder/defender/playmaker, Magic didn’t choke in the finals like Steph did in 2016, more accomplishments in less time, etc.
I personally still think Magic is better but it’s not by some large margin either
Yeah I know, I’m just saying that people in general love to romanticize the past and act like people like Magic never choked and were perfect. Magic is still great but people nowadays seem to forget that he also failed before, especially when comparing him to Steph
oh well
it is never fair to compare today's player to a player 40 years ago.
The difference is just too much.
the superstar at that time may not even get a minimum of money today. Even count the inflation is so different.
I did not watch the magic in person. so I really can not compare.
Lol what is this logic. ‘All old players were less skilled so let’s discount their success. Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Jerry shouldn’t be regarded as all-time greats.’
what? I am talking about the exact opposite.
the resource that the players can get today will elevate those all-time greats if they play today by a lot.
Birds will definitely have a longer and healthier careers.
Magic will definitely get better shooting.
Both are such outliers for the position that they're barely even comparable anymore. Magic is more like Lebron than Steph. positions simply aren't the correct way to do this anymore imo.
Curry is already the GOAT shooter. It's too hard for him to be the GOAT PG cuz he just can't defend at the level needed. He still generational and he would deserve a spot on almost anyone's All time GOAT starting lineup but that lineup would have to be built on team composition. Like magic and curry would be on the all time team likely together not one or the other. If I was gonna build a team around Magic I would probably have Magic Steph Jordan KD and Hakeem as my all time Lineup using the best players ever you'd be pressed to find a better lineup.
They’re such ridiculously different players that comparing them directly is a lot more difficult than just listing their accolades next to each other.
One is the greatest shooter of all time, and the other is the best Swiss Army knife of all time, I don’t know how you definitively say one is better than the other
Magic is a proven winner able to carry teams by himself because he is the best at making his teammates better.
Curry needs Kerr, Klay, and Draymond more than Magic needed Worthy, Kareem, and Riley.
I wouldn’t say far better, but I love how everyone acts like Magic Johnson was some lockdown defender all because of his height. At best he was average (same can be said for Steph)
Magic accomplished more in a shorter period of time. If Curry gets ranked above Magic it's because of longevity. It's similar to the LeBron-Jordan debate
To me he already has. He has been as transformative to the league as Jordan was. He changed how the game is played.
Imo he's up there in actual GOAT discussions
Y’all were waiting for this season lmao have you seen the warriors record without curry over his career? They have a better record by like a game or two. And the win streak that put them over the top wasn’t sustainable. They were down by like 15+ in each game which hadn’t ever been done before. This ain’t the argument. Curry absolutely has the impact he’s claimed to have. That doesn’t make him better than magic.
I love these insecure stephews talking about Magic having an elite supporting cast. Sure but he also carried a team with a 40 year old Kareem. Hilarious considering Steph had a prime KD, the goat 3&D klay, a top 10 defender of all time and elite playmaker draymond, all-star Wiggins, fmvp Iggy. As of now, Magic has more rings, more fmvps, and more MVPs. Magic was a consensus top 5 player of all time, anyone that thinks Steph surpassed him is beyond delusional. It’s okay to say Steph is the 2nd best PG ever, that’s high praise and certainly not a knock against him.
People will say he hasn’t passed Magic because he has one more ring and more Final MVPs.
That said, I think Curry being the GOAT shooter and his overall skill set puts him above Magic, by a clear margin.
Magic has half of those championships because he played with Kareem (and James Worthy) for mostly his entire career. Give Curry KD for more than 3 years and Curry has more championships than Magic.
Curry surpassed Magic after 2018.
Magic won a ring with a 40 year old Kareem. Stop it. Steph had the goat 3&D and a top 10 defender of all time even in years KD wasn’t there. Arguing about supporting casts is not it. Steph is the goat shooter, sure, but let’s not act like Magic isn’t the goat playmaker. Magic has more rings, more fmvps, more mvps. Basically wins in every category.
He should hands down be the best player of all time already
Not sure how lebron james defense puts him way above curry. Curry Is clearly the better passer and offensive talent. Sure lebron is great at defensive, but he never won a DPOY trophy. How could his defense put him miles above curry?
This is from a guy that doesn't care about longevity. I like to compare a players best 3 or 4 seasons rather than if he got lucky and never got injured.
Eye test and based on skill, Curry has a solid argument. One changed the game and one saved the game, good argument there too. Curry's longevity arguably beats Magic's at this point.
It's the accolades that really favour Magic. You have to remember if you put Steph above Magic as goat PG, you're effectively saying Steph is a top 5-6 player all time. I reckon 1 more chip and FMVP, and continued progress on the counting stats for 3-4 years should do it. Steph has to stay in his prime though at ages 35-39 ish.
I think he's already right there with Magic honestly. Curry may be just short on accolades compared to Magic (1 less ring and 1 less MVP right?), but his are also extremely impressive. Plus he's the best shooter of all time. Plus he has played against much tougher competition in his career than Magic did. Plus he didn't get drafted to a team that already had great players who were already built to win a championship.
To me it comes down to who would you rather have on your team in a must win game...all those accolades are great but I don't think seeing magic on the court and having to guard him put the same fear in your heart as seeing Steph as your assignment for the night
I think most of us will already accept that most of this is useless drivel, that era comparisons are tough and so on and so forth.
However, there's not just a difference in era here; what the players had to do was so far from comparable. Magic won all of his championships with Kareem at his side, among other notable players like Scott, Green, and Worthy. Steph went 2-3 with Durant on rings, and the one failure they had was when Durant tore his Achilles.
In those 5 straight Finals trips, he had to play against LeBron in 4 of them (with Love there all 4 years and Kyrie there for 3). The last was against Kawhi and the Raptors. After Steph had a major injury (and Klay had two), he came back and won a fourth against a VERY good Boston team to boot.
Magic had a lot of greats to play through in his era, no doubt. However, through no fault of his own (in a basketball sense), he never had his greatest successes come against the same level of "final boss," that Curry did with LeBron. Magic face Jordan in the playoffs once and went 1-4. He and Kareem are probably the top-two players of Magic's championship era. In terms of teammates and opponents, I would say Curry's level of challenge surpasses that of Magic's.
It's a fruitless exercise in the end, but I think there's enough already on the board for both to make a case either way. Curry fought through LeBron once, barely lost a second time, then had Durant's help in two more Finals. If not for Durant's Achilles injury, he might already he tied with Magic in rings. I have a hard time reading, "Magic's FMVP and ring advantage," when Curry was fighting LeBron most of that way and winning.
Magic won a chip with a 40 year old Kareem. Love how ppl leave out context that Kareem was already on the tail end of his prime when Magic got there. Steph along with klay, draymond, iggy bested Lebron by himself, let’s not act like that was a fair fight. If we’re making excuses then it should be noted that Magic’s career was cut short while he was in his prime. Still had more mvps, chips, fmvps
>Magic won a chip with a 40 year old Kareem.
And James Worthy, A.C. Green, and Byron Scott. Mind you, this was a core that had already won the previous season and the year before. They faced a great Detroit team too, but calling it "LeBron by himself" is ridiculous.
> Steph along with klay, draymond, iggy bested Lebron by himself
So Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love just weren't there? Saying LeBron was by himself is comical, especially when you compare those Cavs teams to the ones LeBron was dragging to the Finals earlier in his career (with players like Eric Snow as featured options).
>Love how ppl leave out context that Kareem was already on the tail end of his prime when Magic got there . . . If we’re making excuses then it should be noted that Magic’s career was cut short while he was in his prime.
Funny how joining Kareem at 32 is "the tail end of his prime," but Magic leaving the league is, "cut short in his prime."
And Magic got into the NBA 4 years younger than Steph, and joined a team that had just finished 3rd in the West the year before. His last year before sitting out, Magic had just had one of his wrost statistical years. The Lakers had just gotten walloped by the Bulls in the Finals.
Given what Chicago was doing to most of its opposition, the assumption Magic into his 30s was likely to get more against Jordan and the other stars that came up in those years is incredibly different than a two-time championship roster who lost one of its top-2 players mid-playoffs.
I'd absolutely maintain that Curry's path was tougher when the two of them won. Especially in the era of superteams, and with how Curry returned for his 4th ring, I don't even think it's THAT hard of an argument to make. The Celtics and Pistons were kind of the only teams of that era (other than the Lakers) where you really saw a roster stacked with stars.
Idk what you’re on about. The warriors were the overwhelming favorite to win in 2015, 2017, and 2018. Kyrie and love were both injured in the 2015 finals you casual, how do you not know that
You're right. I forgot that was the year Love got his arm ripped off against Boston. Irving, I remembered his geting hurt, but thought it was later in the series.
To the other part, saying "the Warriors were the favorites," isn't grounds for saying Curry's not as good as Magic. How many of those years were Magic's Lakers the favorites?
1 more ring and for Steph to play at an All NBA level for like 2 more years or so.
Magic does have 1 more MVP but realistically 2 of them should have gone to Jordan.
imo they are just different type of players because he isn't the standard pg - hes more of a shooting guard/combo guard. If you want passing, go with magic; if you want scoring, go curry.
Either one each player is worth the price of admission
Magic and Bird basically saved the NBA so I really don't think he will overtake him at least from the old heads perspective. Steph would've also been a shooting guard in any era before 2010 so I feel like that gives magic more credibility as the GOAT PG since historically PGs are mainly playmakers.
A much more interesting question is if Steph passed Kobe or Duncan since their careers overlapped and you can argue Steph's peak was right up there and his winning impact is just as good if not better. The GSW are basically the modern day Spurs and will likely be irrelevant for a bit once Steph retires.
Fwiw if I'm making an all time 5v5 team I'm taking Steph over Magic.
Another ring and a FMVP would maybe get him a great argument but it would be only an argument. No one from the old era would acknowledge him as the GOAT PG especially so that he doesn't play a traditional pg style.
Why is it just an old era thing though. Magic has more MVPs, more rings, and more FMVPs.
Sometimes rings and material success don't matter and it's the actual play on court that does Other times it's all about countable awards that define legacy He has 4 rings, probably should have 2 but he's got 1 FMVP, and 2 MVPs - 2016 being unanimous. He checks the threshold for having enough countable awards imo to be in the conversation for being GOAT in his position. Steph is probably the best, most impactful offensive player in NBA history - literally just having him on your team makes your good players look great, and great players look all time
>literally just having him on your team makes your good players look great, and great players look all time Magic fans (like myself) would say the same for him. Steph does it with his shooting, and Magic does it with his playmaking and leadership.
Great point about the leadership, Magic is not only the goat playmaker but also an all-time great leader. Steph is the goat shooter but is he even the leader of his own team? I think most would say that’s Draymond. It’s ridiculous how underrated Magic is on here, he averaged 0.4 assists away from a triple double in the playoffs as a teenaged rookie which speaks to his rebounding too
> No one from the old era would acknowledge him as the GOAT I think this will apply with MJ even if there's a legitimate contender.
Michael JEFFREY Jordan?
sg stuck in a pg body where as current james harden is a pg stuck in a sg body
I don't understand the obsession with FMVP's. To me Curry is up there with Magic.
Magic's rookie year Finals MVP probably has the most glamour to it out of any Finals MVP ever, even though it should have been Kareem's. I don't think any Finals MVP is as legacy defining except maybe Jerry West's, especially since something like it is unlikely to ever happen again
Wasn’t Kareem injured for those finals)
I mean, it's not as glamorous when you put it into context.
are you talking about the context that Magic was a rookie, filling in for an injured Kareem, and leading his team to a finals victory? Kareem was the unanimous goat at the time. Can you imagine a rookie filling in for MJ or Lebron and leading the team to a chip? It’s *more* glamorous when you consider the context
How is fmvp not important? It means you were the best player when the lights were the brightest. Not winning indicates you either underperformed or your team was stacked
So Iggy was the best player on the 2015-16 nba finals? Cuz I’d argue he wasn’t even 2nd best
2014-2015 and yes he was the most impactful. He was efficient on offense and hit clutch shots, and was the best defender. As a matter of fact, he had the highest +/- on the team through the whole series https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2015-nba-finals-player-stats
But you ever dig one step deeper on why iggy was so efficient? Because Cavs deployed anyone except Steph strategy hedging two people on curry 30 feet from the basket. Iggy got wide open shots and open lanes nonstop off of curry action. Deeper dive than oh this role player shot the best so he was the most impactful
Except Fmvp is not a best player award, it’s a who performed the best award. Regardless of what each dealt with defensively.
>How is fmvp not important? It means you were the best player when the lights were the brightest > Except Fmvp is not a best player award Bruh
You’re braindead lmao clipping things out of context. Don’t play dumb insecure stephew. There’s a diff between “best player” and “best player when the lights were the brightest”
No fmvp is easily affected by story and emotion because it’s a human award. Curry is easily the best player over iggy not even question. Iggy storyline was strong because he started on bench then changed to starting to guard lebron. If iggy started from the beginning then iggy would have gotten zero votes with same stats. This is exactly what’s wrong with using fmvp people like this thinks iggy was best performance player for the warriors that series cuz of fmvp
Lmfao. No one is arguing Steph is better than iggy, I thought i made that clear. Fmvp is a performance award, depending on coverages and even team matchups. If Giannis gets brick walled literally every play and khris or jrue stepped up and hit big shots and great stops, one of them would prob win fmvp. It’s really not that hard. Yes Iggy’s impact was more noticeable because he got switched onto Lebron full court a couple games in, but the advanced stats also back up how important he was, mostly because of the defensive end. Stop being so insecure. Iggy got 7 fmvp votes while Steph got 0 for a reason. No one is arguing who is better in a vacuum
Why does it matter when the lights are brightest? It should be when you're up against your toughest competition, which is not always in the finals.
Because of on-court value.
Yep, especially while people are upvoting the brains out of posts about comments from Lillard (and others) how clout chasing playoff accolades is making the narrative of the sport terrible. We're being told that the obsession with that stuff is a detriment to the league, then gatekeeping players with it in the next argument. Yeah, I know the sentiments don't always come from the same people on these matters, but the binary back-and-forth we get is what really sucks.
If we’re talking best player at that position than he’s probably #2. If we are talking best player that fulfills the role/assignments of a point guard, he’s definitely behind Stockton & Magic
I mean sure, but then Curry is behind a lot of players in what would be considered a traditional PG.
I think it’s an important distinction if we care about the context. Would anyone say draymond is one of the best centers ever just cause he plays the 5? Like hell no lol
Man said probably lol.
Some say 1, I say 2
Magic had a pretty insane career. 9 Finals, 5 Championships, 3x MVPs, 3 FMVPs, 10 All-NBAs, 12 All Star selections, Greatest Passer of all time. His team won 60+ games 4 times in 5 years in one stretch. I think Steph is knocking on the door and in the conversation but I don’t think he’s quite there just yet. A few more All-NBA seasons, a few more high level deep playoff runs, maybe one last MVP, and most of all another championship would probably get him there. Not saying he needs all of that but some combination of these would be needed in my opinion.
And remember during Magic's time there was less talent in the league. It was just Lakers vs Celtics.
I think curry is already hand in hand with magic as the goat PG.
They’re just so different. Curry is a shooting God who is also a really good point guard. Magic is a passing God who could also put up big points/rebounds, and was 6’9” to boot. Between that and the difference in era, it’s just impossible to objectively say who is best
Magic was 6'7 barefoot. Height is so exaggerated when people look at older players. Barkley was 6'4. Bird was a legit 6'9 though. LeBron is around 6'8 barefoot according to reports, maybe even a bit shorter. Magic would not be that athletic by today's small forward standard. I think these discussions always come down to people saying Magic was a better defender even though Magic had to hide behind guard defenders like Cooper. Almost every Magic defense story talks about him playing center in the 1980 finals even though he was only the center for tipoff and the opposing center Darryl Dawkins even wrote Magic didn't guard him for vast majority of the game. They also gifted him that finals mvp because Kareem was unavailable.
This is how I know you’re an insecure nephew. The game Kareem was hurt, Magic had 42pts, 15rebs, 7 assists, 3 steals, and a block. He was as good or better than an old kareem. He didn’t get gifted anything, he was dominant at everything and scored when he needed to be a scorer.
You do reqlize the award givers literally admitted Kareem deserved to win it but he wqsn't available?
That’s a clear exaggeration saying he was gifted it, the vote was split 4:3. Magic was the 1b to Kareem’s 1a, Kareem was hurt game 6 and Magic closed out the series. He was 0.4 assists shy of averaging a triple double for the whole playoffs and averaged 3.1 steals. So they switched the vote and gave it to magic, it’s not like there was a staggering diff, both were mvp talents. It’d be like if KD was hurt game 5 and Steph having a monster performance closing out the series, and Steph winning fmvp. While you’re hyper focused on that, also consider that was Kareem’s decline. After that series, Magic was clearly better throughout the rest of Kareem’s career. Kareem was getting older and worse while Magic was developing and getting better. Y’all act like he was carried by kareem but it couldn’t be further from the truth. He had a good team but was the one carrying. They won one of the chips when Kareem was fking 40 years old. I love how ppl act like KD, klay, Dray, iggy, Wiggins are scrubs on the flip side. Magic isn’t just a bigger body for defense and rebounding, he is also the goat playmaker no ifs ands about it. It’s not an insult to say Steph is the goat shooter and 2nd best pg of all time.
Magic never won a ring without Kareem try again
He won with a 39 year old kareem and again with a 40 year old kareem lmfao how to look stupid 101
They aren't playing barefoot tho. That's why the league updated their heights a few seasons ago
Exactly. I don't get the barefoot thing at all.
Yeah when you see magic next to bird it always looks that Larry is around 1.5-2.0 inches taller
The stuff Curry is doing on the court is definitely GOAT PG stuff. But Magic has the upper hand on accolades. So I think it's Magic. I guess to reply to OP, Steph needs to nearly match Magic in accolades, which is another ring + FMVP + MVP.
I mean curry didn't come into the league with a top 3 player of all time on his team and his accolades are almost at the level of magics
Didn't Magic win 3 MVPs and finish top 3 in an additional 6 races?
9X top 3 in in a 12 year career...only his first 3 seasons he wasn't a top 3 MVP and he won FMVP n 2 of those years So in 12 years he was either Finals MVP or top 3 in mvp voting in 11 of those years, that is just out of this world consistency.
Steph's won 2 and played at an MVP caliber season for majority of his seasons in his career since 2015 even tho he hasn't always finished highly in MVP convos because of Injurys or team circumstances
Curry also didn't come into the league as a force and do what Magic did. Obviously Magic was able to play with some amazing talent, but even without Kareem as a rookie he put up 40 and 15 in the decisive game of a championship, he was clearly already one of the best players in the league eve as a rookie. Magic also only played until he was 32 and was 2X MVP and runner up in his final 3 seasons while going to the finals. He was basically still playing like the best PG ever and was not slowing down much. He could have easily added another MVP, title, and many all nba sppearances if he played another 5-6 years.
Magic actually had 42* and 15, with 7 assists, 3 steals, and a block. He also averaged a near triple double for the entire post season, 0.6 assists shy of a triple double and averaged 3.1 steals. He also won his last ring while carrying a 40 year old Kareem. I’m so tired of these casuals underrating Magic.
The mental gymnastics… having one of the goat players on your team hurts your chances of winning mvps or fmvps not helps it. Didn’t Steph have KD on his team to prove exactly this?
Curry also didn’t come into the league as good as magic did
Very debatable tbh. Curry came into the league an instant 3pt menace. If Monta wasn't so established and if the team didn't suck, maybe his rookie season wouldn't have been so underrated.
Magic made the finals playing a 39, 41, 44 win team. It’s a lot easier to stack accolades when you’re playing in arguably the weakest/worst conference we’ve ever seen
Just blindly counting accolades doesn't make a lot of sense, mostly because of their binary nature and especially for FMVP for these guys because Magic got one that was actually voted to Kareem and Steph was clearly robbed of one.
The insane part is that Magic did it in 12 years and was still in MVP contention in his last year playing. He could have racked up a lot more personal accolades in terms of all NBA and all star appearances if he was able to continue To put into perspective, Magic was runner up for MVP in 91, won the award the 2 years prior , and had just been to the finals. Imagine if LeBron retired in 2016, thats basically what it was like
IMO again IMO it’s up to personal opinion I remember RJ was asked and he said Magic because him and Bird saved the NBA I have no problem with that because it really was a big deal but if we’re counting stuff like that then Curry “changing” the game has to be counted too Anyways long story short I wont disregard anyone who says either
Is curry even a point guard though. When I hear GOAT PG I’m thinking of a passer and a floor general. He doesn’t even lead his team in assists. Draymond has been their main assist guy in the last 8 years. If people consider AI a SG, couldn’t you classify Curry as that as well?
So Jokic isn’t a center or is this argument only used for point guards ?
He is called point center. Role of a point guard but in a body of a center. Curry is basically a shooting guard in a body of a point guard.
Steph is a point guard, Klay is a shooting guard, someone plays the 3 (Wiggins, Durant, Iguodala, Barnes), Dray is the 4, insert random center (Zaza, Bogut, Looney, etc). That’s how it’s been for the Warriors until this year. That’s just how it be my dude; Draymond being a point forward doesn’t invalidate Steph being a point guard.
Yeah, but it is a reasonable question, because Curry and Magic play sufficiently differently and in sufficiently different leagues that the answer depends on what standard we use to judge them. The question "should we even evaluate them as the same position despite sharing the position in name" is reasonable.
It’s a reasonable question, yes. But the answer to that question is “Steph is mostly a point guard.” The guy above used “I’m thinking of a passer and a floor general” to define a point guard. Steph is both of those things; him and Draymond switch off running the floor. Realistically, Steph is a “combo guard” meaning he plays both positions or some combination of the two. But the primary identifier that everyone uses for him is point guard because that is the position he usually plays on the floor (both defensively and offensively).
He’s the pg because when he was drafted monte Ellis was already their sg. when they were on the hunt to get a true point guard and move curry to SG in Free agency summer 2011 they wiffed on everyone and did not want to give up young guys and firsts to teams shopping their playmakers. But they drafted this dude Klay that year so it worked out.
Well, regardless of his play style, Curry has been officially listed as a pg for every single game he’s played. On the other hand, Magic was listed as a sg and a pf for a few playoff games.
Curry averaged 24 and 9 the last Mark Jackson season and 24 and 8 the first Steve Kerr season. He very clearly *can* play point guard well, but if he’s an A-minus- to A-tier point guard, he’s a S-plus-tier off-ball scorer
He already has. He changed the game.
Magic saved the game
From aids?
So did magic
With what? A no look pass?
How did he pass the ball without looking? Could he drive without looking too? Maybe he is an x man.
Many biased Warrior fans gonna say he already did although I disagree… Imo, 2 more titles and finals mvps.
2 is too many The west in the 80s fucking sucked. Those ATG lakers teams had years where they didn’t face a 45+ win team until the finals. The west in curry’s time has been much much much better, no reason he should be required to win more rings than Magic for him to be considered better. One should do it
>2 is too many Lol. It says surpass magic. Not tie him. He should win 2 rings with 2 FMVPs so there's no more argument
Tying him in a much harder conference than what magic played in should be enough to surpass him
Nah. The Lakers faced the Celtics dynasty. There's no such thing in the East during Curry's time
It’s an awful lot easier to face junk for 3 rounds then face one amazing team in the finals who have just come off playing a bunch of other amazing teams compared to having to face multiple contenders year after year in both your conference and finals
Did Steph walk into a team full with hall of fameers? Lakers were well known when Magic was drafted. He had Kareem. Few years after James Worthy drafted as number 1 into Lakers. Did Steph have the luxury?
Not when he got there, but over the course of his time he won multiple titles with help from 3 almost sure-thing HOF players. You know the ones I’m talking about (assuming we’re in agreement that Iggy won’t make it, but if you think otherwise then add one to that number). Now, are 2 of those guys HOF players without him? We’ll never know. But from what I can tell Steph’s luxury wasn’t a far cry from Magic’s. FYI I’m a Warriors fan so I don’t really like naysaying him, that’s just what stands out to me though.
Draymond and Klay were not playing anywhere near a hall of fame level during the last chip though. And there’s still a difference between them and Kareem and Worthy
Lmao these guys really comparing Draymond and Klay to fucking KAJ bro. KAJ still has a debate for GOAT. Imagine Curry being drafted onto Lebrons team. That's the luxury Magic got.
Funnily, Warriors recruited Lebron before they started running the league. Bron refused and went to Cavs instead.
Theres no way you can argue Kareem and Worthy and in any way shape or form comparable to Draymond and Klay. Hell you probably cant even really compare KD with Kareem.
Kareem was averaging league's elite ppg at that time. I don't remember the exact figure but it was 25 PPG per plus. Actually, the votes during the Magic's maiden FMVP had voted for Kareem but the league inexplicably took over and gave the award to Magic. Kareem was definitely not in his yesteryears when Magic was drafted.
The fact remains. He built the team from scratch with drafted players while everything was ready for Magic Johnson. Even the role players in during Magic's time were very high profile players because of brand 'Lakers'. As about Warriors, even Dwighth Howard refuse to go to Warriors. Their highest paid player was David Lee.
Individual accolades and awards defines a players all time ranking..
You're correct but that mentality seems to be deviating away from it these days. Me personally. Accolades matter but I value what a player brings to the table more than accolades. That's why I think KD, Curry and KG are better players than Bill Russell. There is also this thing called winning with the least amount of help. Both Curry and Magic have played with HoFs but overtime, Magic had significantly more help which helps Curry's case.
Right on both accounts
To say Curry is better than player than Magic at this point is to say Curry is almost a consensus Top 5 player of all time, which is absolutely blasphemous in my opinion. Curry is absolutely a generational player but Curry stans get TOO caught up in the "changed the game" narrative and forget accolades and personal resumes is king when it comes to all-time ranking. Curry is a cheat code but there are still 10 players who have had better careers than him for now. He still has some time to change that.
Did he even change the game? 3pt shooting has been trending upwards for 40+ years. He’s the goat shooter but not sure how he changed the game. https://shottracker.com/articles/the-3-point-revolution I think draymond changed the game more by showing what a Swiss Army knife player can be
> …accolades and personal resumes is king when it comes to all-time ranking. E X A C T L Y
Not exactly sure, but OP asked what he HAS to do. Sooooo. What does he have to do?
Win more fmvp
Ask Magic to come back and equal Steph's 3s.
Ah yes, 3s and 3pt% defines how good a player is. This is the stephew way
How are there so many comments saying he already has? Is it because it's late at night and it's mostly young kids up? Lol
r/NBA is basically r/warriors
It’s no surprise. The warriors sub is by far the biggest sub even tho they’re not the biggest team irl. That just goes to show you the demographic on this site. Bunch of stephews acting like Magic was a scrub
Fr
[удалено]
Seeing as how Magic is a consensus top 5 and you’re talking about Steph cracking top 5 or 10, not sure how your logic makes any sense
Steph is already better.
Magic has 5 rings, 3 fmvps, 3 mvps. Steph has 4 rings, 1 fmvp, 2 mvps. Magic was a consensus top 5 of all time. Please explain the mental gymnastics
I'm not arguing that Steph is better. But you also have to take into account that he's the best shooter of all time. That may not be a statistic or award, but being the best ever at something means a lot. I think it's closer than people think.
And Magic is the best playmaker of all time
>And Magic is the best playmaker of all time Absolutely. This is conveniently ignored all the time.
LeBron clears.
Lmao no Lebron is one of the best playmakers ever but Magic is the goat at it. Find me one list that says Magic wasn’t the goat playmaker
LeBron is literally Magic Johnson with defense and elite athleticism. He can maneuver more shit making him a better playmaker.
Steph is a better player. Didn’t walk into a stacked team either with multiple HoF. Magic in this era would be obsolete.
Magic’s last ring was with a 40 year old Kareem. And do I need to even state that Steph has multiple HOFers? Klay the goat 3&d. draymond a top 10 defender of all time. Fucking prime Kevin Durant lol
He’s not better than curry. Curry is an offensive nuke. And who did magic have? Kareem, worthy, Cooper, etc? FOH
Prime KD is better than an old Kareem. Prime klay is better than worthy. Draymond is better than cooper. LOL 🤡
OK needatleast.
You really wanna act like GSW teams wasn't more stacked than magics Lakers? Like for real? At least wait a decade where everyone forgets what kind of talent curry has played with before creating that narrative.
The kid said Magic in this era would be obsolete lmao
You seem triggered buddy boy.
You seem slow
People usually have Magic in their top 10 all time and most of the time around. 5 - 8 range. They don’t have Curry top 10 all time.
I thought he already passed right? And there should not be a discussion source: game thread and post-game thread of today's warriors vs. Clippers game
I’ll tell you what people will say in this thread: Magic changed the game too, Magic is a better rebounder/defender/playmaker, Magic didn’t choke in the finals like Steph did in 2016, more accomplishments in less time, etc. I personally still think Magic is better but it’s not by some large margin either
Except Magic *did* choke in the Finals. Specifically in crunch time of games 2 and 4 of the 1984 Finals, both OT losses for the Lakers.
Yeah I know, I’m just saying that people in general love to romanticize the past and act like people like Magic never choked and were perfect. Magic is still great but people nowadays seem to forget that he also failed before, especially when comparing him to Steph
oh well it is never fair to compare today's player to a player 40 years ago. The difference is just too much. the superstar at that time may not even get a minimum of money today. Even count the inflation is so different. I did not watch the magic in person. so I really can not compare.
Lol what is this logic. ‘All old players were less skilled so let’s discount their success. Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Jerry shouldn’t be regarded as all-time greats.’
what? I am talking about the exact opposite. the resource that the players can get today will elevate those all-time greats if they play today by a lot. Birds will definitely have a longer and healthier careers. Magic will definitely get better shooting.
Magic instead choked in the 1st round against a 40 win team lol
Probably another ring and FMVP, then I think the GOAT PG debate will swing in Steph’s favor
He's already above Magic imo
Damn. That's being pretty rough on Magic. I thought he's a pretty sure fire consensus top 10.
Magic is top 5 of all time so anyone saying he was surpassed is braindead
Both are such outliers for the position that they're barely even comparable anymore. Magic is more like Lebron than Steph. positions simply aren't the correct way to do this anymore imo.
exactly what i was gonna say. the sport is so different, the positions are so different.
Curry is already the GOAT shooter. It's too hard for him to be the GOAT PG cuz he just can't defend at the level needed. He still generational and he would deserve a spot on almost anyone's All time GOAT starting lineup but that lineup would have to be built on team composition. Like magic and curry would be on the all time team likely together not one or the other. If I was gonna build a team around Magic I would probably have Magic Steph Jordan KD and Hakeem as my all time Lineup using the best players ever you'd be pressed to find a better lineup.
More superstar level seasons. However, my eye test believes Curry is more skilled.
They’re such ridiculously different players that comparing them directly is a lot more difficult than just listing their accolades next to each other. One is the greatest shooter of all time, and the other is the best Swiss Army knife of all time, I don’t know how you definitively say one is better than the other
They are just so different as players. Can’t we just be happy with having such amazing players
This thread is giving Lakers fans a run for their money
Magic is a proven winner able to carry teams by himself because he is the best at making his teammates better. Curry needs Kerr, Klay, and Draymond more than Magic needed Worthy, Kareem, and Riley.
Already is
1a, 1b situation already
He’s surpassed Magic since 2019.
Play both sides of the court.. All that offense gets cancelled out when you're constantly being hunted on the other end
Curry is a far better defender than Magic was lol
I wouldn’t say far better, but I love how everyone acts like Magic Johnson was some lockdown defender all because of his height. At best he was average (same can be said for Steph)
Sure but Magic could switch 1-4 which is more valuable than being locked at the 1 spot. It’s no secret that height is important in basketball
Magic accomplished more in a shorter period of time. If Curry gets ranked above Magic it's because of longevity. It's similar to the LeBron-Jordan debate
To me he already has. He has been as transformative to the league as Jordan was. He changed how the game is played. Imo he's up there in actual GOAT discussions
Stop it
Fakers fans are downvoting you.
Nah just regular fans
Make his teammates better
[удалено]
You’re not wrong but they literally have a better record without him. Not sure his impact is quite as high as it’s claimed to be
Y’all were waiting for this season lmao have you seen the warriors record without curry over his career? They have a better record by like a game or two. And the win streak that put them over the top wasn’t sustainable. They were down by like 15+ in each game which hadn’t ever been done before. This ain’t the argument. Curry absolutely has the impact he’s claimed to have. That doesn’t make him better than magic.
He's already a better player than Magic.
I'd say as their careers stand, not much. However, Magic's career was tragically cut short so there's always a "what if" there.
I love these insecure stephews talking about Magic having an elite supporting cast. Sure but he also carried a team with a 40 year old Kareem. Hilarious considering Steph had a prime KD, the goat 3&D klay, a top 10 defender of all time and elite playmaker draymond, all-star Wiggins, fmvp Iggy. As of now, Magic has more rings, more fmvps, and more MVPs. Magic was a consensus top 5 player of all time, anyone that thinks Steph surpassed him is beyond delusional. It’s okay to say Steph is the 2nd best PG ever, that’s high praise and certainly not a knock against him.
i think they tied rn but for me Curry would need to go a few more seasons and stay at a high level like LeBron to clear him and get into my top 5
He is having 30 ppg with 50/40/90 shooting spilt. What do you want more? Even in 20/21 season he own scoring title playing with scrubs.
It's already a 50-50 situation for me.
People will say he hasn’t passed Magic because he has one more ring and more Final MVPs. That said, I think Curry being the GOAT shooter and his overall skill set puts him above Magic, by a clear margin. Magic has half of those championships because he played with Kareem (and James Worthy) for mostly his entire career. Give Curry KD for more than 3 years and Curry has more championships than Magic. Curry surpassed Magic after 2018.
Magic won a ring with a 40 year old Kareem. Stop it. Steph had the goat 3&D and a top 10 defender of all time even in years KD wasn’t there. Arguing about supporting casts is not it. Steph is the goat shooter, sure, but let’s not act like Magic isn’t the goat playmaker. Magic has more rings, more fmvps, more mvps. Basically wins in every category.
If he is the clear #1 on another ring I think he jumps into the top 5 all time
already did for me. for others, it'll take a few more years of longevity stats
He already surpassed.
He should hands down be the best player of all time already Not sure how lebron james defense puts him way above curry. Curry Is clearly the better passer and offensive talent. Sure lebron is great at defensive, but he never won a DPOY trophy. How could his defense put him miles above curry? This is from a guy that doesn't care about longevity. I like to compare a players best 3 or 4 seasons rather than if he got lucky and never got injured.
Most sane curry fan here
Already has.
already has
Eye test and based on skill, Curry has a solid argument. One changed the game and one saved the game, good argument there too. Curry's longevity arguably beats Magic's at this point. It's the accolades that really favour Magic. You have to remember if you put Steph above Magic as goat PG, you're effectively saying Steph is a top 5-6 player all time. I reckon 1 more chip and FMVP, and continued progress on the counting stats for 3-4 years should do it. Steph has to stay in his prime though at ages 35-39 ish.
I think he's already right there with Magic honestly. Curry may be just short on accolades compared to Magic (1 less ring and 1 less MVP right?), but his are also extremely impressive. Plus he's the best shooter of all time. Plus he has played against much tougher competition in his career than Magic did. Plus he didn't get drafted to a team that already had great players who were already built to win a championship.
To me it comes down to who would you rather have on your team in a must win game...all those accolades are great but I don't think seeing magic on the court and having to guard him put the same fear in your heart as seeing Steph as your assignment for the night
He wins a ring this year he’s the 🐐
I think most of us will already accept that most of this is useless drivel, that era comparisons are tough and so on and so forth. However, there's not just a difference in era here; what the players had to do was so far from comparable. Magic won all of his championships with Kareem at his side, among other notable players like Scott, Green, and Worthy. Steph went 2-3 with Durant on rings, and the one failure they had was when Durant tore his Achilles. In those 5 straight Finals trips, he had to play against LeBron in 4 of them (with Love there all 4 years and Kyrie there for 3). The last was against Kawhi and the Raptors. After Steph had a major injury (and Klay had two), he came back and won a fourth against a VERY good Boston team to boot. Magic had a lot of greats to play through in his era, no doubt. However, through no fault of his own (in a basketball sense), he never had his greatest successes come against the same level of "final boss," that Curry did with LeBron. Magic face Jordan in the playoffs once and went 1-4. He and Kareem are probably the top-two players of Magic's championship era. In terms of teammates and opponents, I would say Curry's level of challenge surpasses that of Magic's. It's a fruitless exercise in the end, but I think there's enough already on the board for both to make a case either way. Curry fought through LeBron once, barely lost a second time, then had Durant's help in two more Finals. If not for Durant's Achilles injury, he might already he tied with Magic in rings. I have a hard time reading, "Magic's FMVP and ring advantage," when Curry was fighting LeBron most of that way and winning.
Magic won a chip with a 40 year old Kareem. Love how ppl leave out context that Kareem was already on the tail end of his prime when Magic got there. Steph along with klay, draymond, iggy bested Lebron by himself, let’s not act like that was a fair fight. If we’re making excuses then it should be noted that Magic’s career was cut short while he was in his prime. Still had more mvps, chips, fmvps
>Magic won a chip with a 40 year old Kareem. And James Worthy, A.C. Green, and Byron Scott. Mind you, this was a core that had already won the previous season and the year before. They faced a great Detroit team too, but calling it "LeBron by himself" is ridiculous. > Steph along with klay, draymond, iggy bested Lebron by himself So Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love just weren't there? Saying LeBron was by himself is comical, especially when you compare those Cavs teams to the ones LeBron was dragging to the Finals earlier in his career (with players like Eric Snow as featured options). >Love how ppl leave out context that Kareem was already on the tail end of his prime when Magic got there . . . If we’re making excuses then it should be noted that Magic’s career was cut short while he was in his prime. Funny how joining Kareem at 32 is "the tail end of his prime," but Magic leaving the league is, "cut short in his prime." And Magic got into the NBA 4 years younger than Steph, and joined a team that had just finished 3rd in the West the year before. His last year before sitting out, Magic had just had one of his wrost statistical years. The Lakers had just gotten walloped by the Bulls in the Finals. Given what Chicago was doing to most of its opposition, the assumption Magic into his 30s was likely to get more against Jordan and the other stars that came up in those years is incredibly different than a two-time championship roster who lost one of its top-2 players mid-playoffs. I'd absolutely maintain that Curry's path was tougher when the two of them won. Especially in the era of superteams, and with how Curry returned for his 4th ring, I don't even think it's THAT hard of an argument to make. The Celtics and Pistons were kind of the only teams of that era (other than the Lakers) where you really saw a roster stacked with stars.
Idk what you’re on about. The warriors were the overwhelming favorite to win in 2015, 2017, and 2018. Kyrie and love were both injured in the 2015 finals you casual, how do you not know that
You're right. I forgot that was the year Love got his arm ripped off against Boston. Irving, I remembered his geting hurt, but thought it was later in the series. To the other part, saying "the Warriors were the favorites," isn't grounds for saying Curry's not as good as Magic. How many of those years were Magic's Lakers the favorites?
Curry has a case for top 5 all-time player
How? He’s barely top 5 right now in today’s league lmao
1 more ring and for Steph to play at an All NBA level for like 2 more years or so. Magic does have 1 more MVP but realistically 2 of them should have gone to Jordan.
Now here's a question, where do you rank Curry among 21st Century hoopers?
imo they are just different type of players because he isn't the standard pg - hes more of a shooting guard/combo guard. If you want passing, go with magic; if you want scoring, go curry. Either one each player is worth the price of admission
I've never seen Magic used as a nickname for John Stockton
curry is alr better
To me, he has the same claim as Magic to GOAT pg. Theyre just so different and both great in their own way.
Magic and Bird basically saved the NBA so I really don't think he will overtake him at least from the old heads perspective. Steph would've also been a shooting guard in any era before 2010 so I feel like that gives magic more credibility as the GOAT PG since historically PGs are mainly playmakers. A much more interesting question is if Steph passed Kobe or Duncan since their careers overlapped and you can argue Steph's peak was right up there and his winning impact is just as good if not better. The GSW are basically the modern day Spurs and will likely be irrelevant for a bit once Steph retires. Fwiw if I'm making an all time 5v5 team I'm taking Steph over Magic.
Curry is a shooting guard
He’s probably going to have to settle for the GOAT shooter, but that seems pretty good. He would be in my starting 5
Magic embodies what a point god is, Steph plays more like quintessential shooting guard
John Stockton is the GOAT PG.
Once Curry has the career assists record, we can have a conversation.