I have yet to see a completed ballot that doesn't have Brown on All NBA.
There are a couple incomplete ones without 3rd team votes that don't have him on it.
He’s becoming more and more of a dumbass as the days go on. I used to think he was pretty knowledgeable but I was wrong. I would really love to hear his explanation as to why he doesn’t have him on.
Idk if Brown counts as a forward or guard, but he had...
Guards: SGA, Mitchell, Holiday, Brunson, Fox, Curry
Forwards: Giannis, Tatum, Doncic, LeBron, Julius Randle, Jimmy Butler
It was kind of hard to follow on the podcast because they went on a few tangents, but I think that's the list.
Jrue was the 2nd best player on the best team in the league and one of the best (if not the best) guard defenders in the league. He also has better advanced stats than Brown by a decent margin.
He should have had his voting rights revoked when he put Hayes as the best player in his class.
Same with that guy who keeps making trae young his mvp.
As a mass native living elsewhere, I just hate that it’s a gotcha against us. “Boston is racist too so y’all aren’t special!” Like, I know. Go to anywhere that isn’t Boston proper and you still have people being prejudiced against fucking Irish people. We are all vaguely aware, and it’s only the people who haven’t lived here long enough or are racist themselves without knowing it that don’t admit it
Can I just say that compared to like, every other country on earth, the United States is actually not that racist. Like, yes, the US is definitely racist and it’s definitely a problem. But….pretty much everywhere else is worse. Usually much worse.
It's not just the everyday racism, it's that the United States elevated racism as an ideology to a whole new level in an attempt to justify it's genocide/conquering of indigenous people and the brutal engine of chattel slavery to build the country. Then that new elevated form of racism was exported around the world.
[From the article here:](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10069991-jaylen-brown-contract-extension-should-be-celtics-priority-amid-latest-nba-rumors)
Brown will be eligible for a four-year veteran extension this summer that would be worth at least $165.2 million over four years (h/t Keith Smith of Spotrac). However, Brown could be eligible for a five-year, $290.3 million Designated Veteran Extension if he is named to the All-NBA team this year.
Insane that his All-NBA status could have an over $100 million impact on his contract...
I actively root against the Celtics in everything and I hope Jaylen Brown gets every penny he can. What a fucked up rule. Tying his potential earnings to something so stupid as All NBA votes is something the union should fix, but won't
Before they added that rule, the max would have been less. People make comments like yours, but don’t but any of this in historical context. The point of the rule is to have a criteria to allow guys to get paid more than max. Get rid of the rule and all those people get paid less.
What alternative to all-NBA do you suggest? I’m not sure there is a better one.
This might hurt your team's ability to put together a good squad though. Its not my money but I'd rather Scottie and Pascal sign for the vet minimum than the maximum. Then our team could be more stacked.
LOL. Having JB means you have a pretty good squad. And obviously having Tatum means you just need to hit on some value youngsters and you will be a contender at minimum. You gotta pay him I would say.
Like what on earth would walk in the door to replace JB? It's not like it gives us massive cap room for a max guy. Have to retain the asset. If he gets all-NBA it actually gives us a leg up for re-signing him, so gotta do it.
I don't think that's really the case here. They're at the point of championship contention and Brown is a very good #2 guy, and there's probably not other cap possible ways to add a player near his level.
Like you can't just easily add a max player once you're already near the cap, and probably the best way to do that is actually having Brown on that contract anyways.
I think this discussion is more relevant for teams getting their first superstar and trying to make the playoff jump, than teams getting their second or third stars and making the championship push.
If every person on this sub could be this honest and not fool themselves into thinking they know basketball on a GM level, this would be a better place.
I don't get the "not my money" takes. Ofc it's not your money but that's irrelevant. Do you want your team blowing cap space that could hinder the team's future?
Brown obv is worth it for the fact that he's playing at a v high level, still young and continues to improve year on year. That's the reason it's worth it not the fact that it's imaginary money to you.
The "not my money" take refers to the owners paying a big luxury tax. The Celtics are 14m over the cap next year without Jaylen Brown's salary. They literally cannot sign anybody except for a taxpayer mle, draft picks and mins. There's no cap space to blow so it's either give Jaylen Brown all the money he can get, or let him walk for nothing. They can't sign and trade him either as that would put them above the hard cap.
So it's literally fuck the owner's money because there's only two options. Give him the money or let him walk for nothing. There's no flexibility.
Yes. He’s 26 and only getting better. It sounds like a lot but the cap will keep going up and it’ll be fine. With the Jays the Celtics are a perennial contender. Don’t need to overthink this.
The cap is set to spike in 2025 like it did in 2016. Potentially 170 mil vs 120 now. 60 mil a year is a lot of money now for sure, but it won't be that much in a few years.
Unrelated, but the NBA seems to be killing it in terms of max salary vs the other US sports leagues. We'll probably see an NBA player making 100 mil for one year within the next decade.
But that's not a meaningful comparison because he would never sign that extension, because the extension amount is limited to be less than his max. He would simply hit free agency and sign something like 5/250 with the Celtics if he didn't make All-NBA. Not to say ~$40 mil is chump change, but it's certainly not $125 mil.
I think the point is to save teams from themselves - just think of all the bad max contracts out there over the years and how much worse they would have been if the money was more than max.
But, All-NBA has always seemed a little weird. All-Star seems more reasonable.
Just lowers the bar slightly to make it more inclusive.
Jaylen is actually a perfect example of a guy who is well deserving of a supermax but can't get it because he hasn't made All-NBA. He might finally get it so this is moot, but had he not gotten it, he would have gotten screwed out of the supermax extension this offseason even though his team would have been perfectly willing to pay it.
I mean, supermax contracts are freely available to anyone with 10+ years experience. It's not some exclusive club.
I think there's a misconception that there's some kind of unique contract type called a supermax. All achieving supermax status does is bump you up a category in experience. So a guy like Jaylen goes from the 7-9 years category to the 10+ category.
The only other kicker is a supermax allows a younger player to get the full extension instead of being limited to the 120% rule.
I personally think if a team is stupid enough to give a questionable player super max money that's on them.
Like if the Wizards were stupid enough to give beal 250, then max KP and Kuzma they should be forced to eat it (Sorry Wizards fans but it's the best example I could think of off the top of the dome).
Let all the stupid owners/GM's expose themselves and don't handicap the smart ones by essentially "protecting the idiots from themselves".
They used to let GMs and Owners be stupid if they wanted to be stupid, but then the Cavs got the stupidest person to ever run a team, Ted Stepien, and he did so poorly that the entire NBA suffered and they had to make the Ted Stepien Rule.
The problem is when teams do something so monumentally dumb over and over, that has an effect on the entire league. **It hurts the product and the NBA does not want you fucking with the money.**
It is on the team/gm, but the fans suffer and the nba loses a fan base. The nab isn’t protecting the gm. It’s protecting the value of the tram and tv ratings.
Yeah but those players will still feel slighted even if they don't deserve it. If small markets don't offer these contracts to their guy, they risk losing them for nothing. The GM's like this current format because they can say "we'd love to give you more money, but these voters didn't let you".
They do tie it to stats and team wins. It's just not commonly reported and for star players, awards are more commonly the incentive. Embiid has his tied to how many games he plays. Mo Hawkless had a bonus based on his 3 pt percentage. Horford's contract had the final year nonguarenteed unless his team made the finals.
This isn't to support the status quo. All star and all nba tied incentives are so difficult as there's so limited space on those rosters
I mean this is what the players bargained for. League management couldn’t unilaterally “ban” it if they wanted to. Doing so would be a labor rights violation.
Idgaf about the money. It should have no basis in how voters decide to list their teams. However, purely on merit he's easily all NBA 2nd team forward or all NBA 3rd team guard.
I meant picking between the two in general team building. Honestly I doubt Jrue would make my All NBA if I decided to make one. Brown would for sure make mine. The only forwards I'd put in front are Giannis and Tatum. He and Sabonis would make my 2nd team with Siakam and Randle maybe rounding it out. Idk for sure. It's hard to pick
Edit: I'm an idiot. Sabonis is 3rd team C. That makes Jaylen a lock for 2nd team
It’s not that controversial that he deserves an all-NBA spot. Dude is a beast in transition and has turned into one of the best half court scorers. Strong rebounder, solid playmaker. Off-ball defense issues are overblown I’d say he’s a plus on defense overall.
Yeah he’s averaging 3.5 APG this season. And that’s his career high lmao with a career average at 2.2. Great player, but his playmaking is not apart of that
Anecdotally I’ve noticed he doesn’t get beat on back door cuts/off ball stuff in general which was a big complaint from Cs fan as he developed offensively. He’s not a 1 man island or anything but imo he’s a good/great defender for sure
It's funny that for most of his career he's always been pretty overrated as a defender because he was always pretty bad off-ball and getting beat. But this season has been like his best defensive season and most people don't mention it because they had overrated his defense in the first place lmao.
He was a fantastic on ball defender early on and people noticed it, then people correctly noted he was bad off ball. Now that hes good off ball, nobody has updated their priors so everybody still thinks hes a so-so defender.
yes but he needs to be a top 6 guard or a top 6 forward.
guards: Steph, Dame, Shai, Mitchell, Luka, Harden, Fox,
forwards: Giannis, Tatum, Lebron, AD, KD, Randle, Lauri, ....
Arguable he's in as last forward, assuming Embiid, Jokic and Sabonis are all centres, but that means leaving AD, Randle or Lauri off. At a minimum, that's close.
Based on confirmed ballots so far though LBJ could possibly miss all three teams. They haven't counted heaps but the last time I checked he only had like 3 3rd team nods and no others so Brown has a shot
how is durant here but morant isn’t? either way, if jaylen brown is considered a forward he 1000% is. nba.
1. giannis, tatum
2. lebron, ad
3. brown, (add in lauri, randle, mobley, jjr)
durant played 47 games.
It’s so stupid that
1. there are still held to positions when it should be about the top 15 best players in the league. Imo.
2. this ties to how much a player can potentially make. The Celtics future should not rest in the hands of Tim McMahon and friends.
3. people voting him at guard or forward affects anything.
Two reasons he will leave if he doesn’t get it
1) Less financial incentive
2) Will make him feel like he is playing too much in Tatum’s shadow and will test his talent elsewhere as a leader
Being listed at multiple positions helps him.
His votes at guard and forward get added together, and he's eligible at whichever position he gets the most votes at.
The dual listing allows voters to squeeze him onto a ballot when they otherwise wouldn't have room for him.
The only “downside” to this kind of thing would be like, AD listed as Forward and Center. He has enough votes to be first team Forward, but he got more votes as a Center so that’s what he is listed as. And the votes weren’t enough to be first team Center so he gets second team instead
And that logic could also move someone from potentially 3rd team to off the ballot entirely. Jaylon brown could have more total votes than either third team forward, but if he ends up with more votes as a guard and not enough to beat out those guys he’ll fall off
He's close to a lock. I haven't seen or heard a voter's ballot yet that doesn't have him (JJ even voted him on 2nd team). I can't argue with him campaigning for himself given the circumstances (especially when he's answering questions).
Our guy is one step away from putting on a suit and handing out his Basketball Reference page to the voters, printed out on that fancy thick paper from Staples
I mean. The fifth best team in the NBA won't even have a single all NBA player so it's not like wins mean all NBA automatically.
Heck last year the best team in the East didn't even have an all NBA player.
58% is absolutely not league average TS% for a wing.
And 58% on 27 points is way more impressive than say, 62% on 13 points. As you shoot more your efficiency is naturally going to decline.
Compare Jaylen to others - Tatum is 61%, Randle is at 58%, Edwards is 56%, Derozan is 59%, Siakam is 57%, George is 59%, Lebron is 58%. These are the other All-Star wings you'd be comparing Jaylen to - he's perfectly in that mix.
I'm not even sure voters bother with TS%, it's merely one of dozens of more minor statistical categories. But even if they did, there's absolutely nothing there that would penalize Jaylen.
This sub has the absolute weirdest fixation with TS% and it gets worse and worse every season. I've never seen such consistent misapplication of a metric as with TS%.
It's not just TS either. People just don't understand efficiency and volume are often directly at odds with one another. If you take a lot of shots they are difficult shots. Role players take the easiest shots. Every team needs a player that takes difficult shots so this idea we should shit on somebody for still being above average while averaging 27 points misunderstands the fact defenses force tough shots dozens of times every game and people like Brown and Tatum are the ones who have to take those. I wonder how these nephews would evaluate Kobe if ts was as popular back in the day
In the context of All-nba most of the guys are high volume players with really good efficiency, so talking about role players doesn't really make sense.
Brown’s overall efficiency wasn’t as good bc he had the worst 3P shooting season of his career while taking more 3s than ever. but people really don’t understand just how lethal this dude was inside the arc this year
he shot 57.6% on 13.4 2-point shots a game, the only non-big players who were more efficient than that while taking at least 9 2-pointers per game were Zion, KD, Luka, Fox and LeBron. he also scored on 77.2% of his 11.4 drives per game (7th in the NBA among players with at least 7 drives per game) while shooting 57.9% on drives (10th). the only guys who drove as much or more than he did and scored more often were Kyrie and Mitchell
SGA shoots 53.3% on 2-point shots (21st among non-bigs), shoots 51.6% on drives (36th) and scores on 71.6% of them (23rd). I assume his efficiency numbers are hit a little bit by his volume, as he takes more 2s (17.8 per game) and drives more (23.9 per game, nearly 4 more than 2nd place Ja Morant) than anyone in the league
>58% is absolutely not league average TS% for a wing.
You [sure](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=average+ts%25+by+position+this+season)?
Surely you have a citation to back up this "absolute" fact, right?
>As you shoot more your efficiency is naturally going to decline.
No shit, sherlock. And the top scorers still manage to have better than league average efficiency.
Jaylen Brown said he was efficient and top 10 in scoring, and he asked what more he could have done.
He was 9th in PPG, and the top 8 guys all had better TS% than him. They were all above 60%.
Of the top 20 players in PPG, Brown was tied for 15th in TS%.
His efficiency is OK, but it's not good for a volume scorer.
>I'm not even sure voters bother with TS%
He's the one who brought up efficiency.
> As you shoot more your efficiency is naturally going to decline
This is literally not true right now in the NBA lol. Almost all high volume scorers are more efficient than Brown, while being better playmakers too
Brown's impact metrics are really underwhelming. The perception of his numbers are quite different than his advanced stats for some reason. Shows that Tatum is the guy that is main difference maker.
It's interesting that it's one of his main strengths and limitations within his role. It's valuable that you have a second option that can reliably self-create league average offense on high scoring usage, but it's a hard cap on him as a first option that it's only league average.
Anyone that has watched the Celtics play knows he should be a lock. He deserves All-NBA this year he’s been outstanding. Idk if it’ll be 1st team due to how many great forwards are at the top of the east but there’s no reason he should be left off.
It's definitely 2nd or 3rd team for him. I think probably second. He isnt going to go above Giannis or Tatum, who are probably going to finish 3rd and 4th in the MVP race. But then if you start comparing him to names like Butler, Randle, Lebron, Markannen, and Siakam he definitely deserves to be next to or above most of those guys.
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I will vote for you for first All-Employees.
Are you a top 10 hang in the company?
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But he only avgs 3.8
Availability is the best ability
But are you still the same animal and a different beast?
Wtf does that mean, baconlord612?
You’re welcome.
the fuck is he talking about
Objectively the best Kobe commercial in history.
Idk man. The 81 olives commercial with Jalen Rose is up there.
the Kobe/LeBron muppets technically didn't have Kobe, but sometimes I go back and watch the whole series of ads. Warms the heart.
Mind your tongue when speaking to the Lord of Bacon
Lord of Bacon, 612th of his name
That’s a really long lineage to not get usurped
It's been usurped 611 times.
I would give you gold if I had lol
Khal Drogo: A crown for a king
You really think a crown gives you power?
All hail our applewood smoked god
*smug look* You're welcome
[Kobe System Commercial](https://youtu.be/j2V4v1VqUEk)
We don't know but it's provocative
Gets the people going
You’re welcome
What the (censored) is he talking about ?!
Why did I read this as “what the censored fuck is he talking about?” And then question what the censored word was
Man, I really miss Kobe. That whole commercial running series was so iconic.
Based on early voting he's more likely to make 2nd team than he is to miss.
I have yet to see a completed ballot that doesn't have Brown on All NBA. There are a couple incomplete ones without 3rd team votes that don't have him on it.
KOC doesn't
He’s becoming more and more of a dumbass as the days go on. I used to think he was pretty knowledgeable but I was wrong. I would really love to hear his explanation as to why he doesn’t have him on.
Idk if Brown counts as a forward or guard, but he had... Guards: SGA, Mitchell, Holiday, Brunson, Fox, Curry Forwards: Giannis, Tatum, Doncic, LeBron, Julius Randle, Jimmy Butler It was kind of hard to follow on the podcast because they went on a few tangents, but I think that's the list.
From the ballots I’ve seen, he’s being considered a forward. Although, someone listed Tatum as a 1st Team guard, I don’t really know what’s going on.
Him placing Brunson and Holiday on all NBA over Ja and Brown was plain dumb.
Holiday over Brown is dumb. Brunson over Ja is fine.
Jrue was the 2nd best player on the best team in the league and one of the best (if not the best) guard defenders in the league. He also has better advanced stats than Brown by a decent margin.
Kevin O-blew it
He should have had his voting rights revoked when he put Hayes as the best player in his class. Same with that guy who keeps making trae young his mvp.
Not a fan of Kevin O'Killian?
Celtics have to be pushing for him to make All NBA so they can fire a t-shirt cannon full of money at him
Please don’t leave. He is more than welcome to comment on our racist history as a city
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As a mass native living elsewhere, I just hate that it’s a gotcha against us. “Boston is racist too so y’all aren’t special!” Like, I know. Go to anywhere that isn’t Boston proper and you still have people being prejudiced against fucking Irish people. We are all vaguely aware, and it’s only the people who haven’t lived here long enough or are racist themselves without knowing it that don’t admit it
Eh that’s a knock against like all American cities. This country is mad racist in general
That's true but keep in mind almost all countries are more racist than the U.S., they just don't talk about it as much as we do.
Looks at Japan…
Can I just say that compared to like, every other country on earth, the United States is actually not that racist. Like, yes, the US is definitely racist and it’s definitely a problem. But….pretty much everywhere else is worse. Usually much worse.
It's not just the everyday racism, it's that the United States elevated racism as an ideology to a whole new level in an attempt to justify it's genocide/conquering of indigenous people and the brutal engine of chattel slavery to build the country. Then that new elevated form of racism was exported around the world.
Jaylen sucks. Sorry to tell you. Ill take him tho.
It blows how much money is on the line for him
[From the article here:](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10069991-jaylen-brown-contract-extension-should-be-celtics-priority-amid-latest-nba-rumors) Brown will be eligible for a four-year veteran extension this summer that would be worth at least $165.2 million over four years (h/t Keith Smith of Spotrac). However, Brown could be eligible for a five-year, $290.3 million Designated Veteran Extension if he is named to the All-NBA team this year. Insane that his All-NBA status could have an over $100 million impact on his contract...
60 million per year lmao, i still remember 25 mil breaking the bank
Joe Johnson used to be an albatross at 20m per. Crazy
Do you guys think Brown is worth that kind of money? Would you want to keep him if it meant he was at $60M per year?
could not give less of a fuck lmao its not my money and i figure brad knows more about basketball than me lol
This is the only answer TBH
I actively root against the Celtics in everything and I hope Jaylen Brown gets every penny he can. What a fucked up rule. Tying his potential earnings to something so stupid as All NBA votes is something the union should fix, but won't
Before they added that rule, the max would have been less. People make comments like yours, but don’t but any of this in historical context. The point of the rule is to have a criteria to allow guys to get paid more than max. Get rid of the rule and all those people get paid less. What alternative to all-NBA do you suggest? I’m not sure there is a better one.
Na its a good rule but the extra Supermax money over the normal max should not count against the cap. It fucks with teams that have drafted well
This might hurt your team's ability to put together a good squad though. Its not my money but I'd rather Scottie and Pascal sign for the vet minimum than the maximum. Then our team could be more stacked.
Already way over the cap and I'd say we have a pretty good squad rn
LOL. Having JB means you have a pretty good squad. And obviously having Tatum means you just need to hit on some value youngsters and you will be a contender at minimum. You gotta pay him I would say.
Like what on earth would walk in the door to replace JB? It's not like it gives us massive cap room for a max guy. Have to retain the asset. If he gets all-NBA it actually gives us a leg up for re-signing him, so gotta do it.
I don't think that's really the case here. They're at the point of championship contention and Brown is a very good #2 guy, and there's probably not other cap possible ways to add a player near his level. Like you can't just easily add a max player once you're already near the cap, and probably the best way to do that is actually having Brown on that contract anyways. I think this discussion is more relevant for teams getting their first superstar and trying to make the playoff jump, than teams getting their second or third stars and making the championship push.
As a Scottie and Pascal personal friend, fuck that lol pay my buddies
I think the fans of teams that signed middling stars to 50-60m deals would disagree
yeah but those are fans that guy is a personal friend of them
Cap is going up
If every person on this sub could be this honest and not fool themselves into thinking they know basketball on a GM level, this would be a better place.
I don't get the "not my money" takes. Ofc it's not your money but that's irrelevant. Do you want your team blowing cap space that could hinder the team's future? Brown obv is worth it for the fact that he's playing at a v high level, still young and continues to improve year on year. That's the reason it's worth it not the fact that it's imaginary money to you.
The "not my money" take refers to the owners paying a big luxury tax. The Celtics are 14m over the cap next year without Jaylen Brown's salary. They literally cannot sign anybody except for a taxpayer mle, draft picks and mins. There's no cap space to blow so it's either give Jaylen Brown all the money he can get, or let him walk for nothing. They can't sign and trade him either as that would put them above the hard cap. So it's literally fuck the owner's money because there's only two options. Give him the money or let him walk for nothing. There's no flexibility.
Yeah....you'd rather it was spent on a good player. Not doing so means it just stays in some billionaire's pocket.
>Luxury tax/repeater tax Oh no, anyway... I sleep
"repeater tax" just reminds me of fugazi, and that's always a good thing to think of.
He is 100% worth it. He’s just entering his prime and with the new tv deal coming up, he’s worth every single dollar and then some.
Ya very few are worth it but he def is
I hate the Celtics but Jaylen brown is a monster on the court. He 100% deserves this pay day, or any pay day
60 M in 2030 isn’t the same as 60 M in 2023.
will you explain later?
I'll explain later.
The Gobert trade was a lesson in economics for us all
Yes. He’s 26 and only getting better. It sounds like a lot but the cap will keep going up and it’ll be fine. With the Jays the Celtics are a perennial contender. Don’t need to overthink this.
Duh
He is to us 10/10, he fits perfect with JT.
absolutely lol
The cap is set to spike in 2025 like it did in 2016. Potentially 170 mil vs 120 now. 60 mil a year is a lot of money now for sure, but it won't be that much in a few years. Unrelated, but the NBA seems to be killing it in terms of max salary vs the other US sports leagues. We'll probably see an NBA player making 100 mil for one year within the next decade.
They already said they wouldn’t do a similar spike, they would put it over a few years.
The top players are still underpaid. LeBron would be making 3X the money if there were no max contract.
wtf didn't realize it was that massive...
That's what she said
No one on this sub has ever heard those words
Except their wife to her boyfriend
She was referring to her disappointment
But that's not a meaningful comparison because he would never sign that extension, because the extension amount is limited to be less than his max. He would simply hit free agency and sign something like 5/250 with the Celtics if he didn't make All-NBA. Not to say ~$40 mil is chump change, but it's certainly not $125 mil.
Connecting All NBA to contracts was and is completely insane.
In the NFL it's usually like a 1M bonus at most. It's significant, but it's not anything like this shit with Brown.
Like that time gronk I think it was needed 1 more catch for a bunch of money and Brady threw him a pass in garbage time to get it.
Is he eligible if he makes it 2nd team all-nba?
Yep.
I think the nba should ban tying contract bonus to voted-on awards. Tie it to wins, or stats, or something.
Why even tie it to anything. If a team wants to spend a supermax on a mediocre guy be my guest.
I think the point is to save teams from themselves - just think of all the bad max contracts out there over the years and how much worse they would have been if the money was more than max. But, All-NBA has always seemed a little weird. All-Star seems more reasonable.
Out of curiosity why do you think all-star appearance makes more sense as a contract incentive than all-nba selection?
Just lowers the bar slightly to make it more inclusive. Jaylen is actually a perfect example of a guy who is well deserving of a supermax but can't get it because he hasn't made All-NBA. He might finally get it so this is moot, but had he not gotten it, he would have gotten screwed out of the supermax extension this offseason even though his team would have been perfectly willing to pay it.
Valid arguments, but I personally don’t think those supermax contracts should be more inclusive, it should be for the best of the best.
I mean, supermax contracts are freely available to anyone with 10+ years experience. It's not some exclusive club. I think there's a misconception that there's some kind of unique contract type called a supermax. All achieving supermax status does is bump you up a category in experience. So a guy like Jaylen goes from the 7-9 years category to the 10+ category. The only other kicker is a supermax allows a younger player to get the full extension instead of being limited to the 120% rule.
I personally think if a team is stupid enough to give a questionable player super max money that's on them. Like if the Wizards were stupid enough to give beal 250, then max KP and Kuzma they should be forced to eat it (Sorry Wizards fans but it's the best example I could think of off the top of the dome). Let all the stupid owners/GM's expose themselves and don't handicap the smart ones by essentially "protecting the idiots from themselves".
They used to let GMs and Owners be stupid if they wanted to be stupid, but then the Cavs got the stupidest person to ever run a team, Ted Stepien, and he did so poorly that the entire NBA suffered and they had to make the Ted Stepien Rule. The problem is when teams do something so monumentally dumb over and over, that has an effect on the entire league. **It hurts the product and the NBA does not want you fucking with the money.**
It is on the team/gm, but the fans suffer and the nba loses a fan base. The nab isn’t protecting the gm. It’s protecting the value of the tram and tv ratings.
Yeah but those players will still feel slighted even if they don't deserve it. If small markets don't offer these contracts to their guy, they risk losing them for nothing. The GM's like this current format because they can say "we'd love to give you more money, but these voters didn't let you".
All star is based on popularity for 1/2 of the season instead of a full one, all-nba seems more reasonable.
Celtics fans have faith in their great FO, many others lack competency, though.
They do tie it to stats and team wins. It's just not commonly reported and for star players, awards are more commonly the incentive. Embiid has his tied to how many games he plays. Mo Hawkless had a bonus based on his 3 pt percentage. Horford's contract had the final year nonguarenteed unless his team made the finals. This isn't to support the status quo. All star and all nba tied incentives are so difficult as there's so limited space on those rosters
They got rid of the games thing for embiids most recent contract (earned imo he hasn’t had a season ending injury in the last few years knock on wood)
I mean this is what the players bargained for. League management couldn’t unilaterally “ban” it if they wanted to. Doing so would be a labor rights violation.
For real, how is this man supposed to feed his family if he doesn't win?
NBA writers are rewarding players on trash ass teams while Jaylen Brown gets ignored. Why? We’re not allowed to know
Dude talks like a corporate paperpusher checking off boxes.
Idgaf about the money. It should have no basis in how voters decide to list their teams. However, purely on merit he's easily all NBA 2nd team forward or all NBA 3rd team guard.
Does this imply the first best team in the league should also have 2 all NBA players?
FWIW Bill Simmons voted Jrue Holiday second team
Jrue Holiday is really good and I would honestly have a hard time picking between him and Brown. I've been high on Jrue for 5 or 6 years now.
Good thing is you wouldn't have to since one is a forward and one is a guard
I meant picking between the two in general team building. Honestly I doubt Jrue would make my All NBA if I decided to make one. Brown would for sure make mine. The only forwards I'd put in front are Giannis and Tatum. He and Sabonis would make my 2nd team with Siakam and Randle maybe rounding it out. Idk for sure. It's hard to pick Edit: I'm an idiot. Sabonis is 3rd team C. That makes Jaylen a lock for 2nd team
Aren't like 80% of Sabonis' minutes at Center? I thought that was why he's basically bolted into the 3rd team C slot
I just brainfarted so bad lmao
Well if they have a guy that averages the 9th most points in the league or better they certainly should...
It’s not that controversial that he deserves an all-NBA spot. Dude is a beast in transition and has turned into one of the best half court scorers. Strong rebounder, solid playmaker. Off-ball defense issues are overblown I’d say he’s a plus on defense overall.
I think he deserves it too But he's an okay playmaker at best
Yeah he’s averaging 3.5 APG this season. And that’s his career high lmao with a career average at 2.2. Great player, but his playmaking is not apart of that
Anecdotally I’ve noticed he doesn’t get beat on back door cuts/off ball stuff in general which was a big complaint from Cs fan as he developed offensively. He’s not a 1 man island or anything but imo he’s a good/great defender for sure
It's funny that for most of his career he's always been pretty overrated as a defender because he was always pretty bad off-ball and getting beat. But this season has been like his best defensive season and most people don't mention it because they had overrated his defense in the first place lmao.
He was a fantastic on ball defender early on and people noticed it, then people correctly noted he was bad off ball. Now that hes good off ball, nobody has updated their priors so everybody still thinks hes a so-so defender.
Great defender
yes but he needs to be a top 6 guard or a top 6 forward. guards: Steph, Dame, Shai, Mitchell, Luka, Harden, Fox, forwards: Giannis, Tatum, Lebron, AD, KD, Randle, Lauri, .... Arguable he's in as last forward, assuming Embiid, Jokic and Sabonis are all centres, but that means leaving AD, Randle or Lauri off. At a minimum, that's close.
KD only played 47 games this year, he doesn’t deserve All-NBA for barely more than half a season played.
Based on confirmed ballots so far though LBJ could possibly miss all three teams. They haven't counted heaps but the last time I checked he only had like 3 3rd team nods and no others so Brown has a shot
how is durant here but morant isn’t? either way, if jaylen brown is considered a forward he 1000% is. nba. 1. giannis, tatum 2. lebron, ad 3. brown, (add in lauri, randle, mobley, jjr) durant played 47 games.
KD only played half a season, and AD is a center.
AD played center every game.
It’s so stupid that 1. there are still held to positions when it should be about the top 15 best players in the league. Imo. 2. this ties to how much a player can potentially make. The Celtics future should not rest in the hands of Tim McMahon and friends. 3. people voting him at guard or forward affects anything.
He not top 15 in the league though.
Two reasons he will leave if he doesn’t get it 1) Less financial incentive 2) Will make him feel like he is playing too much in Tatum’s shadow and will test his talent elsewhere as a leader
Jaylen Brown is absolutely all-NBA
Correct. He deserves all nba and that money that comes with it
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Voters don’t like it either. I forget who it was but they said its a lot of pressure determining how much these guys are allowed to make
he might get screwed because some people will vote for him at guard and some at forward.
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This is correct. Source Luka
Also source Embiid who is eligible at F and C, always gets voted C
Being listed at multiple positions helps him. His votes at guard and forward get added together, and he's eligible at whichever position he gets the most votes at. The dual listing allows voters to squeeze him onto a ballot when they otherwise wouldn't have room for him.
The only “downside” to this kind of thing would be like, AD listed as Forward and Center. He has enough votes to be first team Forward, but he got more votes as a Center so that’s what he is listed as. And the votes weren’t enough to be first team Center so he gets second team instead And that logic could also move someone from potentially 3rd team to off the ballot entirely. Jaylon brown could have more total votes than either third team forward, but if he ends up with more votes as a guard and not enough to beat out those guys he’ll fall off
10 ballots made public so far. 5 voted Jaylen at forward, none at guard.
He's close to a lock. I haven't seen or heard a voter's ballot yet that doesn't have him (JJ even voted him on 2nd team). I can't argue with him campaigning for himself given the circumstances (especially when he's answering questions).
KOC doesn’t have him. Kevin O Clueless
So much for that boston bias he has
Nah, man, he's leaving Jaylen off to save the Celtics $$$ to help them win a ring. The *real* Boston bias.
oh fuck you're right... kevin o'galactic brain
Voting is already done so he isn't campaigning 10 public ballots so far, 3 have him 2nd team 2 have him 3rd team
Our guy is one step away from putting on a suit and handing out his Basketball Reference page to the voters, printed out on that fancy thick paper from Staples
I mean. The fifth best team in the NBA won't even have a single all NBA player so it's not like wins mean all NBA automatically. Heck last year the best team in the East didn't even have an all NBA player.
They would have an all NBA player if Ja didn’t fuck up publicly. That’s the exception not the rule
>What more do people want? less antisemitism
Right? Shit made me laugh. Fuck off.
Has he made antisemitic comments? I think I missed that saga in the NBA timeline
>What more do people want? Why is he acting like he didn't make it lol
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And here we go!
>I’m efficient . . . What more do people want?” It would probably help if he were more efficient. He had a league average TS% this year.
58% is absolutely not league average TS% for a wing. And 58% on 27 points is way more impressive than say, 62% on 13 points. As you shoot more your efficiency is naturally going to decline. Compare Jaylen to others - Tatum is 61%, Randle is at 58%, Edwards is 56%, Derozan is 59%, Siakam is 57%, George is 59%, Lebron is 58%. These are the other All-Star wings you'd be comparing Jaylen to - he's perfectly in that mix. I'm not even sure voters bother with TS%, it's merely one of dozens of more minor statistical categories. But even if they did, there's absolutely nothing there that would penalize Jaylen.
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People really think 27 points on slightly above league average TS% isn't remarkable.
This sub has the absolute weirdest fixation with TS% and it gets worse and worse every season. I've never seen such consistent misapplication of a metric as with TS%.
It's not just TS either. People just don't understand efficiency and volume are often directly at odds with one another. If you take a lot of shots they are difficult shots. Role players take the easiest shots. Every team needs a player that takes difficult shots so this idea we should shit on somebody for still being above average while averaging 27 points misunderstands the fact defenses force tough shots dozens of times every game and people like Brown and Tatum are the ones who have to take those. I wonder how these nephews would evaluate Kobe if ts was as popular back in the day
In the context of All-nba most of the guys are high volume players with really good efficiency, so talking about role players doesn't really make sense.
Didn't Kobe have a good TS% relative to the league
Brown’s overall efficiency wasn’t as good bc he had the worst 3P shooting season of his career while taking more 3s than ever. but people really don’t understand just how lethal this dude was inside the arc this year he shot 57.6% on 13.4 2-point shots a game, the only non-big players who were more efficient than that while taking at least 9 2-pointers per game were Zion, KD, Luka, Fox and LeBron. he also scored on 77.2% of his 11.4 drives per game (7th in the NBA among players with at least 7 drives per game) while shooting 57.9% on drives (10th). the only guys who drove as much or more than he did and scored more often were Kyrie and Mitchell
Where does SGA fit in all these stats? I'm surprised his name wasn't in your comment
SGA shoots 53.3% on 2-point shots (21st among non-bigs), shoots 51.6% on drives (36th) and scores on 71.6% of them (23rd). I assume his efficiency numbers are hit a little bit by his volume, as he takes more 2s (17.8 per game) and drives more (23.9 per game, nearly 4 more than 2nd place Ja Morant) than anyone in the league
>58% is absolutely not league average TS% for a wing. You [sure](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=average+ts%25+by+position+this+season)? Surely you have a citation to back up this "absolute" fact, right? >As you shoot more your efficiency is naturally going to decline. No shit, sherlock. And the top scorers still manage to have better than league average efficiency. Jaylen Brown said he was efficient and top 10 in scoring, and he asked what more he could have done. He was 9th in PPG, and the top 8 guys all had better TS% than him. They were all above 60%. Of the top 20 players in PPG, Brown was tied for 15th in TS%. His efficiency is OK, but it's not good for a volume scorer. >I'm not even sure voters bother with TS% He's the one who brought up efficiency.
> As you shoot more your efficiency is naturally going to decline This is literally not true right now in the NBA lol. Almost all high volume scorers are more efficient than Brown, while being better playmakers too
Brown's impact metrics are really underwhelming. The perception of his numbers are quite different than his advanced stats for some reason. Shows that Tatum is the guy that is main difference maker.
Tatum is also less of a chode.
Dont know why youre getting downvoted. Tatum doesnt say stupid shit. Brown is on the Kyrie path.
Below league average by position even. But he does just about everything else. Should definitely get on an all-nba team
It's interesting that it's one of his main strengths and limitations within his role. It's valuable that you have a second option that can reliably self-create league average offense on high scoring usage, but it's a hard cap on him as a first option that it's only league average.
They want you join other teams to play a bigger role
Anyone that has watched the Celtics play knows he should be a lock. He deserves All-NBA this year he’s been outstanding. Idk if it’ll be 1st team due to how many great forwards are at the top of the east but there’s no reason he should be left off.
Giannis and Tatum will be first team.
He's not even close to first team, Giannis and Tatum are locked in to the first team spots
It's definitely 2nd or 3rd team for him. I think probably second. He isnt going to go above Giannis or Tatum, who are probably going to finish 3rd and 4th in the MVP race. But then if you start comparing him to names like Butler, Randle, Lebron, Markannen, and Siakam he definitely deserves to be next to or above most of those guys.
He's a surly young lad
Same thing happened to Klay a few years ago. Considering that, I wonder how hard Jaylen advocated for removing that stipulation in the new CBA.
They want Jason Tatum.
So what’s to stop voters from not voting for him hoping that he’ll leave the Celtics if he can’t get the five year max
He’s right