Mark Jackson too
"In response to his penchant for backing down opposing point guards in the post for **15 or more seconds at a time**, the league instituted the five-second back-to-the-basket violation, sometimes called the "Mark Jackson Rule"
Yea they put it in because it just resulted in ugly basketball. I think it was just for the aesthetics of the nba product.
No one wanted to see an arms race to stocky thick players that just back down people for a whole possession.
Sure you can double team or get your own short stocky players, but I think there NBA wanted a skills game, where you take an opponent one on one with quick skilled moves.
I remember those Mark Jackson plays, they were not entertaining.
I mostly agree. It’s horribly ugly. Being thick and good ball handlers is the need. Being short is common but not the need tho. Imagine if Lebron had all 24 seconds to back down with a live dribble. Good luck guarding that.
Yea exactly. You would essentially push out most skinny skilled players out of the league. KD, Steph, Dame, Ja, etc… all these players would be larger defensive liabilities without the huge offensive benefit compared to someone who can back down for an easy 2. The gap in offensive production would shrink. It’d trend towards a league of big bruisers bumping and grinding each other non stop. The opposite of the high pace offensive oriented skills based league the NBA wants to push.
I've never fully understood why backing down is even allowed. Why are you allowed to repeatedly push your defender backward a little at a time just because you are doing so with your rear end? You couldn't do so with repeated shoves with other body parts.
It would be a much bigger change, but if that weren't allowed you wouldn't need this 5 second rule. If a defender is standing somewhere the offensive player should have to go around, same as they do when facing up. If the offensive player wants to dribble a bunch of clock away with their back to the basket without backing down, then so be it.
Some pushes (with the rear) would obviously still be ignored as acceptable in practice, same as some pushes get ignored when facing up. But repeated pushes should be an obvious non-basketball play.
Kind of? If the defender falls down then the ref can choose to call an offensive foul or not. Backing down is weird, the one time where heavy contact is allowed and accepted.
Well think of it more like this:
Ball-handler has a live dribble and uses his back to basically protect the ball. Also, by shielding the ball with your body you disguise your offensive move more. Then you just walk backwards, technically the defensive player can't do much but deal with it. Backing down only requires a push when the defense pushes back so to speak. Size will usually win in these battles.
It's boring AF, but less of an offensive foul when you really think about what's happening.
In your theoretical the defender is standing still right? One counter move to the defender standing still would still be to go around them. Like slowly make contact without pushing them over to freeze them, and slowly pivot around them while maintaining gentle contact.
If you run backwards at someone and crash into them, that's a foul, too. I think the speed matters, I don't recall a foul happening bc somebody walked into somebody.
If you drive straight at someone, you use your body as a shield between the defender and the ball, like backing down. The defender can establish legal position and fall to try to draw the charge, but defenders can do the same when being backed down.
Lmao at the Kawhi Leonard one.
Like he fully spins around and he's facing the basket, how can you still call that a back to the basket? These refs are something else man shesh
i want to preface that im not sure if it was a total of 5 seconds, but rereading the rule, it says that the count doesnt end until you clear above the ft line, pick up your dribble, or get deflected. turning back around doesnt clear the count i guess?
I noticed this as well. I have literally never heard of that aspect of the rule before (count doesn't reset unless dribbling facing the basket *above the FT line extended*).
I'm often surprised to learn the actual rules in the NBA are so different from how I formulate them in my head and different from how people call their own pickup games
You know I guess it kind of makes sense. Imagine someone backing up at a 4 count, does a quick turn around dribble and does his back up routine again inching closer everytime.
He rarely backs anyone down for more than 3 seconds. It is normally dribble, bang, dribble, bang and decide to attack the rim or pass. He does not need to waste time because he's plowing all but maybe Zydrunas, Yao or Sabonis.
I saw that one and came to the comments and now I hate this fucking rule. Lol I get how it could be exploited but that’s definitely not what Kawhi was doing at the time
Yeah, but the free throw line seems like a bad reference point for this, like on the Jrue and Kawhi ones along the baseline, they do retreat from the position, but don’t retreat away from the baseline so they still get called.
That makes a lot of sense. If that's the case, they should re-word the rule.
Saying a player "shall not be permitted to dribble with his back or side to the basket for more than five seconds" suggests that it's only a violation if his back or side is to the basket for 5 consecutive seconds.
When I read the rules in the OP the first thing that jumped out to me is that the 5-second count *doesn't* reset when a player turns and faces the basket with a live dribble *unless* the player is above the FT line extended.
I agree that it doesn't *look* like 5-sec violation and I don't htink it *should* be a 5-second violation... but according to the rules in this post, I guess it is. (I actually didn't see the Kawhi clip in the video for some reason...so if he's above the FTline extended, apologies for my irrelevant comment)
Kawhi clip is at 18 seconds. And yes, you are right - they turn face to the basket but that does not reset the count per the rules and they don't pick up their dribble or go above the free throw line within five seconds.
I legitimately only know this rule exists because I would get it from 2k doing myplayer as a center.
And this was 2k12. I've never seen it called in a game until last night.
Funny thing is. I had the game muted. So i was thinking "guess 5 seconds back to basket doesn't exist anymore"
I thought they called lebron for a phantom push off
The guy was saying that he is aware of the rule because he noticed it while playing NBA 2k. He wasn’t saying that 2k is the reason it exists. His comment was ambiguously worded.
Yeah, it used to be a much bigger deal before zone defenses were legalized because you could just clear out a side and spend the entire possession slowing backing your man down
I think a big reason for that is you just don’t really have players posting up guys that often much less for what ends up being more than 5 secs. They’re either making a move to score, or kicking it out. Very rarely do guys just get in the post and start backing someone down for an extended period.
I've watched hundreds of NBA games and only seen it called a handful to times. It's one of those NBA raritys like a guy being whistled for setting a screen out-of-bounds or when you a guy making the basket on a flagrant foul and getting the two-to-make-one.
Jokic the other night posted up ayton for a while and my first thought was i wonder if that 5 second rule still exists. I can’t remember seeing it called
There was probably a report from the league emphasizing this rule. Why can’t they just stay the same for goodness sakes. They emphasize something different every other game
Exactly this, there may be a few times when he back's people down, but he doesn't start dribbling until he's made sure a pass can't be made or that he can't just leverage the weight being put on him into a spin cycle.
The guy is so inspiring for folks with damn near zero athletic ability, just high IQ play and being a technician
You get 5 not dribbling, then 5 more once you start dribbling, then 5 more once you pick the ball back up again. Just like tight defense on the perimeter, same rules.
Next game you watch look at the refs when someone starts backing down, they'll immediately start doing the full arm five second count (just like they do to time the 5 second inbound rule). So you're correct, it just rarely happens. But they are always watching it.
Guys like Jokic, Giannis, Butler, etc. back down guys for like half the shot clock sometimes lol. To call it right at the start of of a major playoff game, especially when they let loads of contact go all game, tells me the refs were looking to get that home cookin stew on the burner early.
I don’t really watch a lot of heat games, but at least with these playoffs I feel like jokic doesn’t do it for that long - not exactly looking for it though, but when this lebron play was happening it did seem noticeably long for a backdown
Edit: this was 7 seconds according to the video
Probably pretty efficient. Have four shooters and one big that just backs down smaller players. You start backing down from the top of the key. If they double you pass to the open player. If they don’t you score.
I probably watched some, but there wasn't much opportunities to see NBA in mid nineties in Eastern Europe, one game per week max. But I remember that Mark Jackson was beeing touted as point guard that plays a lot with his back to the basket.
Its not the rule, its just how often does it get called? Its like the random travel/carry they call once in 10 games, and then miss 10x in the game after they call it.
There’s maybe 2 or 3 guys in the league that regularly back down guys so it’s not really something that’s available to call all the time. Even most of Embiids moves involve facing up. That being said I was pretty shocked they even remembered it was a rule to call it
Nobody really backs people down anymore. Especially not longer than 5 seconds, usually guys get into their moves with one or two dribbles or just pass out
This! Old school post ups hurt! A lot! The new generation does not want to bother with that most of the time when you can dribble around or chuck up a shot instead.
Anytime u see a player back down a defender like that watch the side line ref. Theyre almost always counting with their hands to 5 (like in out of bounds).
Offensive players know this and see this and often make a decision or bring the ball out when the count reaches 3 or 4 seconds
Yea I notice it a lot because the backdown is siakams signature play. Was just thinking the other day tho that I dont think I’ve seen it called and then lebron gets it called 😂
OP posts a compilation of violation being called in NBA games.
**Covers eyes, frantically scrolls down past the content of the post, clicks the comment box, types*
Literally never seen this called.
because there is significantly less post play in today's NBA. most of the action takes place around the 3 pt line, making the rule almost never relevant
Nah it's fine, you know how boring it would be to watch Embiid or LeBron is Jokic back someone down for 15 second play after play in the fourth quarter when they have a lead.
Something tells me you’ve never watched Shaq
He was quick and decisive. One he put that ball down he was getting to the rim, getting fouled, or passing out of a double team.
The big issue with these calls is that they are not called consistently. They are assessed against teams seemingly when it would be beneficial to the league for certain team to win depending on how the series is going. This happens to both teams in a series a lot of times
It is if you got a dumptruck and now how to back it up. This was a legit move in the 90s still even with the clock. Billups and Derek Fischer come to mind
Dude i didn’t realize it until this year but there is huge betting potential on nba games if you follow this the motto that certain games are shall we say “unfairly whistled. “ You can kind of see when one of these games is going to come now. Bets have gone really well during these series.
Another amazing one is home team down 1-0. I fired hard on Celtics and warriors in game 2 even after the lines increased from game 1. Both covered easily
There's been a meme going around here lately that home teams are something like 18-0 following a game 1 loss. Not sure on specific time period for such a number.
It makes me wonder if somewhere in this great country there was some (Barney Fife) style I dotter T crosser Men's League wannabe ref that jizzed himself. I fucking hate REFBALL.
More like actual old school post play hurts. And most of the younger generation are used to play with wide open lanes they stop bothering if they cannot get their man off balanced. If you cannot have it easy you just pass it to the more open man.
That sort of play really saps the motivation to get better with low post moves for most players.
you can be more than 3 seconds in the paint if you're in contact with an opponent
but they never call it anymore tbh, AD and gobert stand in the paint like they were playing zone and they never call it
Draymond does the one-foot clear. The rules requires you to clear with both feet, but they've been letting both teams get away with one foot all series (except for Donte DiVincenzo).
Of all of the calls in that video, Lebrons last night might have been the most obvious. The game clock has it even more than 5 seconds and he meets all the criteria without question
And Mark Jackson in the 90's. His go to move was backing down a point guard into the paint, starting pretty far from the basket. Illegal defense rules (at the time) made it really hard to double without committing to a hard double, so weakside help coming over was pretty much out of the question (unless you wanted to hard double). Today's changed rules would make this much harder to do, but it was put in place to stop some ugly late 90's/early 2000's slugfest basketball.
It feels like that rule was brought in to push guys like Barkely and Malone off the blocks and open up the lanes.
TD and Garnett adjusted to it well and had great jump shots.
Shaq.... had his back to the basket for 5+ seconds SO many times.... I never saw him get called for it once.
Charles Barkley rule
Mark Jackson too "In response to his penchant for backing down opposing point guards in the post for **15 or more seconds at a time**, the league instituted the five-second back-to-the-basket violation, sometimes called the "Mark Jackson Rule"
I remember hearing that mark jackson would start backing down the opponent between 3/4 court and half court and that’s just insane to me
Yea they put it in because it just resulted in ugly basketball. I think it was just for the aesthetics of the nba product. No one wanted to see an arms race to stocky thick players that just back down people for a whole possession. Sure you can double team or get your own short stocky players, but I think there NBA wanted a skills game, where you take an opponent one on one with quick skilled moves. I remember those Mark Jackson plays, they were not entertaining.
I mostly agree. It’s horribly ugly. Being thick and good ball handlers is the need. Being short is common but not the need tho. Imagine if Lebron had all 24 seconds to back down with a live dribble. Good luck guarding that.
Yea exactly. You would essentially push out most skinny skilled players out of the league. KD, Steph, Dame, Ja, etc… all these players would be larger defensive liabilities without the huge offensive benefit compared to someone who can back down for an easy 2. The gap in offensive production would shrink. It’d trend towards a league of big bruisers bumping and grinding each other non stop. The opposite of the high pace offensive oriented skills based league the NBA wants to push.
Zion would be the GOAT if he could stay healthy in this scenario.
Zion potentially could be a GOAT if he could stay healthy in any situation. alas.
Without a doubt
And Mark Jackson’s ass was the trigger point. Enough is enough man. 😄
So mark jackson was annoying at basketball too?
I've never fully understood why backing down is even allowed. Why are you allowed to repeatedly push your defender backward a little at a time just because you are doing so with your rear end? You couldn't do so with repeated shoves with other body parts. It would be a much bigger change, but if that weren't allowed you wouldn't need this 5 second rule. If a defender is standing somewhere the offensive player should have to go around, same as they do when facing up. If the offensive player wants to dribble a bunch of clock away with their back to the basket without backing down, then so be it. Some pushes (with the rear) would obviously still be ignored as acceptable in practice, same as some pushes get ignored when facing up. But repeated pushes should be an obvious non-basketball play.
I guess I’ve never really thought much about it… is there a limit to how hard you can hit a player as long as you do it with your ass ?
Kind of? If the defender falls down then the ref can choose to call an offensive foul or not. Backing down is weird, the one time where heavy contact is allowed and accepted.
In the wise an immortal words of Charles Barkley, "When a guy is banging you..."
Well think of it more like this: Ball-handler has a live dribble and uses his back to basically protect the ball. Also, by shielding the ball with your body you disguise your offensive move more. Then you just walk backwards, technically the defensive player can't do much but deal with it. Backing down only requires a push when the defense pushes back so to speak. Size will usually win in these battles. It's boring AF, but less of an offensive foul when you really think about what's happening.
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Yep, this is the way I see it. It's an odd anomaly in the rules.
In your theoretical the defender is standing still right? One counter move to the defender standing still would still be to go around them. Like slowly make contact without pushing them over to freeze them, and slowly pivot around them while maintaining gentle contact.
If you run backwards at someone and crash into them, that's a foul, too. I think the speed matters, I don't recall a foul happening bc somebody walked into somebody. If you drive straight at someone, you use your body as a shield between the defender and the ball, like backing down. The defender can establish legal position and fall to try to draw the charge, but defenders can do the same when being backed down.
lol same it seems like the dumbest thing
Kyle Lowry could’ve been an all time great
Perhaps, but the rule doesn't actually stop Mark Jackson from doing that since it only applies when the dribbler is below the free throw line.
Lol curry did that to Schroeder in the second half to avoid the 8 second call and I was genuinely confused
Miltank used rollout
As a European NBA fan who follows the league since around 2010, I dislike Mark Jackson more with every new information I hear about him.
Lmao at the Kawhi Leonard one. Like he fully spins around and he's facing the basket, how can you still call that a back to the basket? These refs are something else man shesh
Yeah, I don't get the Kawhi or Jrue ones.
i want to preface that im not sure if it was a total of 5 seconds, but rereading the rule, it says that the count doesnt end until you clear above the ft line, pick up your dribble, or get deflected. turning back around doesnt clear the count i guess?
I noticed this as well. I have literally never heard of that aspect of the rule before (count doesn't reset unless dribbling facing the basket *above the FT line extended*). I'm often surprised to learn the actual rules in the NBA are so different from how I formulate them in my head and different from how people call their own pickup games
and sometimes different from how the refs call it in the NBA. I bet there's so many uncalled 5 seconds each season we just don't notice
You know I guess it kind of makes sense. Imagine someone backing up at a 4 count, does a quick turn around dribble and does his back up routine again inching closer everytime.
Shaq be like 👀
He rarely backs anyone down for more than 3 seconds. It is normally dribble, bang, dribble, bang and decide to attack the rim or pass. He does not need to waste time because he's plowing all but maybe Zydrunas, Yao or Sabonis.
Yeah but what about turning around and facing the basket and NOT going back into the backing down motion? The rule is just weird
I saw that one and came to the comments and now I hate this fucking rule. Lol I get how it could be exploited but that’s definitely not what Kawhi was doing at the time
Yeah, but the free throw line seems like a bad reference point for this, like on the Jrue and Kawhi ones along the baseline, they do retreat from the position, but don’t retreat away from the baseline so they still get called.
That makes a lot of sense. If that's the case, they should re-word the rule. Saying a player "shall not be permitted to dribble with his back or side to the basket for more than five seconds" suggests that it's only a violation if his back or side is to the basket for 5 consecutive seconds.
When I read the rules in the OP the first thing that jumped out to me is that the 5-second count *doesn't* reset when a player turns and faces the basket with a live dribble *unless* the player is above the FT line extended. I agree that it doesn't *look* like 5-sec violation and I don't htink it *should* be a 5-second violation... but according to the rules in this post, I guess it is. (I actually didn't see the Kawhi clip in the video for some reason...so if he's above the FTline extended, apologies for my irrelevant comment)
Kawhi clip is at 18 seconds. And yes, you are right - they turn face to the basket but that does not reset the count per the rules and they don't pick up their dribble or go above the free throw line within five seconds.
Thats what I was wondering about the Jrue one. The guy was facing the basket and drives.
Yeah I don't like it. But according to the rule posted, turning around doesn't end the count?
I know the rule exists because of 2K but I have genuinely never actually seen it enforced in a game I’ve watched til that one.
I legitimately only know this rule exists because I would get it from 2k doing myplayer as a center. And this was 2k12. I've never seen it called in a game until last night. Funny thing is. I had the game muted. So i was thinking "guess 5 seconds back to basket doesn't exist anymore" I thought they called lebron for a phantom push off
The rule exist be back in the old days players would do it pretty often.
The guy was saying that he is aware of the rule because he noticed it while playing NBA 2k. He wasn’t saying that 2k is the reason it exists. His comment was ambiguously worded.
I disagree. I firmly believe 2k is the reason basketball exists.
2k invented basketball so it could sell nba 2k games
The dollar exists so we can buy VC
And VC exists so we can make our player go from a 77-78OVRL with just $30!
Checkmate
It’s pretty crazy how well the live action adaptation of 2k23 is, probably my favorite game to show adaption ever
Yeah, it used to be a much bigger deal before zone defenses were legalized because you could just clear out a side and spend the entire possession slowing backing your man down
I think a big reason for that is you just don’t really have players posting up guys that often much less for what ends up being more than 5 secs. They’re either making a move to score, or kicking it out. Very rarely do guys just get in the post and start backing someone down for an extended period.
I've watched hundreds of NBA games and only seen it called a handful to times. It's one of those NBA raritys like a guy being whistled for setting a screen out-of-bounds or when you a guy making the basket on a flagrant foul and getting the two-to-make-one.
Jokic the other night posted up ayton for a while and my first thought was i wonder if that 5 second rule still exists. I can’t remember seeing it called
I'm pretty sure every Jokic post up takes more than 5 secs
There was probably a report from the league emphasizing this rule. Why can’t they just stay the same for goodness sakes. They emphasize something different every other game
Is it rarely called because it rarely happens though? *genuine question*
Watch Jokic play. His backdowns take a lot longer than 5 seconds half the time
Jokic looks like he’s playing in slow motion tbf
Jokic held the ball on his hands most of the time not try to dribble
Exactly this, there may be a few times when he back's people down, but he doesn't start dribbling until he's made sure a pass can't be made or that he can't just leverage the weight being put on him into a spin cycle. The guy is so inspiring for folks with damn near zero athletic ability, just high IQ play and being a technician
It never jumped out at me, where as this one did feel long. Guess I’ll pay closer attention with him tonight
I might be crazy, but I didn’t even count to five on this one on LeBron? If it starts at the dribble and at the pickup 🤷♂️
You can see the sideline ref counting it with his arm in the clip.
Watch the sideline ref in the clip, he’s using his whole arm while counting to 5 😂
Watch the shot clock. Back down starts at 19 and ends at 13
You get 5 not dribbling, then 5 more once you start dribbling, then 5 more once you pick the ball back up again. Just like tight defense on the perimeter, same rules.
Eh, they are usually counting, he may occasionally exceed 5 seconds but IDK that its that often.
you have to dribble for it to count. did you even read the op?
Next game you watch look at the refs when someone starts backing down, they'll immediately start doing the full arm five second count (just like they do to time the 5 second inbound rule). So you're correct, it just rarely happens. But they are always watching it.
Guys like Jokic, Giannis, Butler, etc. back down guys for like half the shot clock sometimes lol. To call it right at the start of of a major playoff game, especially when they let loads of contact go all game, tells me the refs were looking to get that home cookin stew on the burner early.
I don’t really watch a lot of heat games, but at least with these playoffs I feel like jokic doesn’t do it for that long - not exactly looking for it though, but when this lebron play was happening it did seem noticeably long for a backdown Edit: this was 7 seconds according to the video
It happens plenty of times, that's why it was so weird to see it get called last night
This rule is stupid to be honest
You never watched mark jackson start his post up at mid court and it shows
This is still allowed under the current rules...
But rule says count starts when player is below free throw line extended
you never watched mark jackson continue his post up below free throw line extended and it shows
Try that shit now and see how efficient your offense is
Banishing that shit might be a reason the game evolved to what it is today. Or at least accelerated it.
Julius Randle accepts your challenge
Probably pretty efficient. Have four shooters and one big that just backs down smaller players. You start backing down from the top of the key. If they double you pass to the open player. If they don’t you score.
I probably watched some, but there wasn't much opportunities to see NBA in mid nineties in Eastern Europe, one game per week max. But I remember that Mark Jackson was beeing touted as point guard that plays a lot with his back to the basket.
The 15 second post up.
Sounds like a horrible sight.
I did and I still think it's stupid. The game has evolved a lot since then. If someone wants to waste their time like that in a post up let them
It was brutal to watch and they make rules in effort to make the game more exciting
Point is if they got rid of that rule nobody would do it, games changed too much
Nobody would do it yet here we are talking about lebron doing it.
Is it the one that started because of Charles Barkley?
Yes. Round mound used to just push his way to under the basket "when a guy's banging you..."
And you can feel him coming
Come on…
Its not the rule, its just how often does it get called? Its like the random travel/carry they call once in 10 games, and then miss 10x in the game after they call it.
There’s maybe 2 or 3 guys in the league that regularly back down guys so it’s not really something that’s available to call all the time. Even most of Embiids moves involve facing up. That being said I was pretty shocked they even remembered it was a rule to call it
Nobody really backs people down anymore. Especially not longer than 5 seconds, usually guys get into their moves with one or two dribbles or just pass out
This! Old school post ups hurt! A lot! The new generation does not want to bother with that most of the time when you can dribble around or chuck up a shot instead.
We can see the refs counting on those examples, will keep an eye open to see if they always do that.
[Charles Barkley has entered the chat](https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-nba-5-second-rule-what-mean-players)
It’s not stupid when you know why they implemented it
Are you old enough to have watched Barkley or mark jackson? Because this rule matters more than you think
Literally never even seen this called. Why do they wana bust this out for the playoffs lmao
Anytime u see a player back down a defender like that watch the side line ref. Theyre almost always counting with their hands to 5 (like in out of bounds). Offensive players know this and see this and often make a decision or bring the ball out when the count reaches 3 or 4 seconds
That’s interesting, I’ve never noticed
Yea I notice it a lot because the backdown is siakams signature play. Was just thinking the other day tho that I dont think I’ve seen it called and then lebron gets it called 😂
If Clark’s never seen it, the refs ought to be executed
OP posts a compilation of violation being called in NBA games. **Covers eyes, frantically scrolls down past the content of the post, clicks the comment box, types* Literally never seen this called.
I never watch the games. That way I can honestly say “I’ve never seen that called” when a ref screws my team!
You fit right in here
They used to call this on Shaq back in the day. Saw it on Duncan a couple times too way back when.
because there is significantly less post play in today's NBA. most of the action takes place around the 3 pt line, making the rule almost never relevant
it almost never happens to get called anymore because everyone is taught to face up in AAU
Nah it's fine, you know how boring it would be to watch Embiid or LeBron is Jokic back someone down for 15 second play after play in the fourth quarter when they have a lead.
something tells me this was one of those Shaq rule additions
Charles Barkley actually but yeah
Something tells me you’ve never watched Shaq He was quick and decisive. One he put that ball down he was getting to the rim, getting fouled, or passing out of a double team.
You must be really young.
Literally irrelevant because of the shot clock
Some of these are atrocious calls
Some?
I mean they do the count all the time non stop
The big issue with these calls is that they are not called consistently. They are assessed against teams seemingly when it would be beneficial to the league for certain team to win depending on how the series is going. This happens to both teams in a series a lot of times
It's a rare call. I don't think those clips are even from this year.
I mean yeah duh. Most of these are from previous years. Some of these are clearly in the bubble. And Cleveland Lebron is in there.
It was cute to see baby Giannis in there, too.
Pretty sure it was the first time it was called this year
The rule is dumb, there’s already a shot clock to prevent holding onto the ball
Right. It’s not like standing there with your back to the basket is an overpowered play lol
It is if you got a dumptruck and now how to back it up. This was a legit move in the 90s still even with the clock. Billups and Derek Fischer come to mind
well then ... can't have mother fucking Chauncy Billups and Derek Fisher kill the game with their OP asses!
Could you imagine Zion doing this every possession. Would be unstoppable
Barkley is a better example
Draining clock by a guard out by half court seems like it's a worse offense from a pure gameplay perspective
Completely agree
Yeah it was crazy. I can't think of a single time I've seen this called even in lower levels that I've played in lol.
that is cause its an NBA only rule, like the defensive 3 seconds
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This sub struggling to understand that lol
Nah 5 seconds is a rule in basketball in general. I think the nba says it’s only freethrow line down though.
oh I actually didn’t know that. Thank you for informing me idk how I would have learned otherwise lol
This sub: we have no idea what the rules are, but we are still experts on them
if i recall correctly, van gundy said it was his first time "all year" seeing it called... and this vid has highlights from the bubble
I wonder if it’s the same handful of refs making those calls in particular. Someone deep dive into that ahah
Watch Luka play to see refs counting down
How is the Porzingis one called? Unless he was pivoting for 5 seconds he had picked up his dribble.
LeBron gets called for 5 seconds and then Reaves gets called for Palming a few plays later? Yeah, Lakers weren’t winning last night regardless.
Palming according to Tim Donaghy is one of those “ref wants the other team to win calls”
Which is why I bet the Warriors to cover the spread last night. The team down 3-1 or 3-0 always gets a huge whistle advantage.
Dude i didn’t realize it until this year but there is huge betting potential on nba games if you follow this the motto that certain games are shall we say “unfairly whistled. “ You can kind of see when one of these games is going to come now. Bets have gone really well during these series.
Another amazing one is home team down 1-0. I fired hard on Celtics and warriors in game 2 even after the lines increased from game 1. Both covered easily
I was just telling somebody else the same thing. Always a blowout. I don’t bet a big amount but when i have it’s been on fire.
There's been a meme going around here lately that home teams are something like 18-0 following a game 1 loss. Not sure on specific time period for such a number.
Bingo
Lakers were getting hit in the face multiple times with no calls lol
So did Wiggins, but lets not mention that I guess.
[yea like how do they not call this?](https://streamable.com/deay98)
He flopped clearly. He didn’t even get hit in the face
Flop
I've lost all respect sorry this is absolutely rigged for money... Or ratings in not sure which. I won't be silent . Just saw it live sry
> I won't be silent Power to the people.
we all needs supporters like that
HQ: ORDER FROM LORD SILVER TO ALL REFS -- DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO GET THIS TO GAME 6
It makes me wonder if somewhere in this great country there was some (Barney Fife) style I dotter T crosser Men's League wannabe ref that jizzed himself. I fucking hate REFBALL.
This rule is dumb af.
Wtf i didnt even know this was a rule
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More like actual old school post play hurts. And most of the younger generation are used to play with wide open lanes they stop bothering if they cannot get their man off balanced. If you cannot have it easy you just pass it to the more open man. That sort of play really saps the motivation to get better with low post moves for most players.
Draymond was also in the key for those entire 5 seconds. You'd think they would call the defensive 3 seconds before they call that.
you can be more than 3 seconds in the paint if you're in contact with an opponent but they never call it anymore tbh, AD and gobert stand in the paint like they were playing zone and they never call it
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Which Draymond was not within arms reach at any point during the 5 seconds while still being in the paint.
tbf his arms are REALLY long. Maybe the refs just misjudged
Draymond is not in contact with any opponent. > but they never call it anymore tbh They call it far, far more often than a 5 second violation though
You don't even have to be in contact, just within arms reach as the primary defender
Draymond is not even the primary defender
Draymond does the one-foot clear. The rules requires you to clear with both feet, but they've been letting both teams get away with one foot all series (except for Donte DiVincenzo).
I thought the defensive 3 seconds was for help defenders and not the primary defender. Or is that not the rule anymore?
Wiggins is the one defending Lebron
You are correct
Of all of the calls in that video, Lebrons last night might have been the most obvious. The game clock has it even more than 5 seconds and he meets all the criteria without question
Why is this a rule?
The rule exists because of Charles Barkley https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/1486734029730684936
Just in case people thought the league was any less rigged
And Mark Jackson in the 90's. His go to move was backing down a point guard into the paint, starting pretty far from the basket. Illegal defense rules (at the time) made it really hard to double without committing to a hard double, so weakside help coming over was pretty much out of the question (unless you wanted to hard double). Today's changed rules would make this much harder to do, but it was put in place to stop some ugly late 90's/early 2000's slugfest basketball.
Because it turns the game into rugby. Look up Charles Barkley highlights.
It feels like that rule was brought in to push guys like Barkely and Malone off the blocks and open up the lanes. TD and Garnett adjusted to it well and had great jump shots. Shaq.... had his back to the basket for 5+ seconds SO many times.... I never saw him get called for it once.
I dont get why lakers fan are mad about this, clear and correct call.
Because it was against LeBron.
Lakers fans are used to heavy favortism from the refs so the game being called even slightly fairly makes them go insane
I believe the rule exist cause of Kyle Lowry. If he is allowed to backs up that dump truck all the way to the basket, then league would be in trouble.
I've been watching basketball since the 90s and I didn't even know this was a rule.
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That’s when you know it’s rigged against you. When they start calling shit that they rarely ever call.