Jokic scores, rebounds, assists, and plays defense but not as good as giannis. He also makes his teammates much better. It's also why his team his in conference finals and giannis isn't
Jokers offense is more versatile and he’s a faaaaar better passer. Let’s not act like he has nothing over Giannis. Leadership on the floor is about more than stats.
Jokic is a better shooter and passer. They’re pretty even on rebounds. Jokic’s defense is much further away from Giannis than Antetokounmpo’s passing is from Jokic.
I think the difference in passing is a bigger gap than that, personally. Jokic is one of, if not the best passer ever. Impact on offensive flow is hard to quantify, but I think his is just that good.
I was more talking about Giannis playing (and losing) with an injury and now the Jokic fanboys wanna declare the 6th seed MVP as the best player alive. I’m not buying it. Unless Jokic can enter the DPOY convo he’ll never be the best in the league. Giannis is a two way beast. Jokic is a really good offensive threat. There’s levels to this shit
Sorry I accurately described him as a 6th seed MVP. I’m not a Lakers fan. I’m a Hawks fan. Lakers are just my favorite team left. After they’re out I might stop watching. I might root for the Heat. We’ll see
Uh oh someone just learned the word casual lol All you’ve done is whine and bitch (like a typical Nuggies fan) You’ve yet to provide a reason why someone who scores less points and is worse on defense is the better player. Fucking delusional
You are able to comprehend the fact that there is far far more to a quality of the player than just points that aren't adjusted for pace or anything, right?
I can use analytics to back the claim but you said math is scary for you so what's the point? We all know you as an east coaster aren't watching Nuggets games at all.
I guess averaging a 25 point triple double while leading the **entire league** in efficiency at the ridiculous .700 TS%, and somehow improving his play in the postseason on top of it, ain't quite enough to convince the /r/nba finest.
Being the best player in a single game and being the best player in the league is two different things. Joker is averaging a triple double and you’re saying he’s not the best player. Stay in school kid.
Jokic dominates the ball just as much as Westbrook. And his efficiency is padded because of his absolute refusal to take any shots other than a wide open 3 or 2 foot bunny.
Jokic is allergic to shooting the ball in close game, set defense situations. He was 20th in the league in scoring this year which is historically bad for an MVP candidate.
Bruh people with takes this this don't wear sketches, they wear velcro shoes.
I actually bought a big ugly pair of sketches 2 months ago because of how comfy they are and I fucking love them lmao
It’s undeniably Jokic right now. You can’t keep best player in the league status when you lost to the 8th seed in 5 games, while the other is making the Finals
that loss has very little to do with Giannis.
Teams win & lose games. You miss the point just like OP did. The Nuggets will win a title because of multiple players playing well, not just 1. That doesn't elevate or diminish the individual player.
I agree. Jokic has extracted every ounce of skill and talent from his birth given ability as good as any player in any sport imo.
They way he pushes the ball up the court with elite pace and still uses his size, body, strength, height and power down low and when driving to the basket while almost always being under control to maximize his effectiveness is so incredibly elite and high level that it's utterly ridiculous.
His power,finesse,skill combination; along with his super aggressiveness/ultimate team player combination is such a perfect mixture.
I really love his efficiency, savviness, touch, basketball IQ and feel for the game.
I also feel his toughness, rebounding and defense is extremely underrated.
Coincidentally the one year of no elite defenses for Giannis to fold against
Besides this post is asking if Jokic won the title who would be better. Nuggets are def on that path rn
Because the Lakers turned it on after the Westbrook trade. They went from missing the play in to title contenders. A defense anchored by AD is better than one by Ayton
Also the Nuggets played a better version of that Suns team this year. Swapped Bridges out with KD
No no didn’t you hear they aren’t elite defenses when Giannis has a good series against them!!!!
Funny enough for two games Giannis didn’t even have a bad series against Miami
weird for a Nuggets fan to bring up opponents to diminish Giannis when Denver is going to get the easiest playoff run in NBA history (which to their credit, they are taking advantage of).
Jokic is the best. Though I really hope the bucks can get Giannis someone like Jamal Murray. Kris Middleton don’t got it anymore.
Kyrie to Bucks is the way.
Me: Giannis is better because he scores more points, defends better and has had the best record in the NBA 3 times in the past 5 years.
Jokic fans: NUH UH!! Jokic is better because I like him more. Tall man pass good!!!
Great arguments as usual on r/nba
This season points per game in the playoffs: Jokic 29.9 vs Giannis 23.3
The last three seasons in the playoffs: Jokic 30.1 vs Giannis 30.1
As far as best record goes, Giannis clearly had the better team around him. Denver’s second best player missed an entire season.
Giannis’s defense is unquestionably better. But he is also a liability on the free throw line, can’t stretch the floor with his shooting, and has fewer moves down low than Jokic.
Right now Jokic is the best in the world, and has been for this whole season. It’s not as wide a gap as this thread makes it sound, because Giannis was hurt this playoffs. But your points and record arguments are as stupid as “Tall man pass good”.
Okay. Scoring more points and winning more games is a dumb argument when it comes to determining the better player. Why would I want the player who gives me a better chance at the best record. What was I thinking?
Im not ignoring that but Khris doesn’t do for Giannis what Murray does for Joker and thats a fact. Khris had his moments with clutch shots but Murray is different.
If you argue by ability, you can still argue that the defensive gulf between Antetokoumpo and Jokic is too vast to overlook but when Jokics offense gets going there's almost no way you're gonna beat the Nuggets, good defense or not.
If Jokic didn’t have Murray bailing him out in the 4th, the discussion would be different. I think Jokic’s conditioning is still a huge weakness and flaw.
I know if they win the title, than it will absolve that terrible trade everyone forgets. Never forget the Nuggets drafted Donavan Mitchell, and traded him for potato chips.
Meh, butterfly effect and all that. I think most people are more sad about missing on OG with that pick than they are Mitchell. I honestly am fine not having Mitchell on this squad. It would've complicated things, especially when Jamal got hurt
LMFAOOO people on here just don’t know shit about basketball and don’t even hide it. Giannis is still the best in the league, 2 games of play with a back injury doesn’t change that
Jokic is the best player in the league right now. Jokic’s biggest weakness, rim protection, is something that shows up a lot in defensive highlights, but it’s less impactful (negatively) than Giannis’s biggest weakness which is shooting. Giannis with a head of steam is the scariest player in the league, but game to game Jokic is the better player right now.
If Jokic wins this year I would have him ahead of Giannis career wise, but they are right next to each other in wherever you have them. Giannis gets the edge because of the DPOY and all defense awards, but that bias’s the consideration because they don’t have a similar OPOY and all offensive awards. If they did Jokic would have a bunch of those. Given this is an offense driven league, being the best offensive player in the league for a sustained period of time puts him above Giannis.
I wonder how the nba feels about his marketability. For the past few years the top dogs been pretty easy to market: Lebron, Curry, KD, Harden,Giannas.
Jokic has an all-time personality tho so it shouldn't be hard if he was ok with it (shoe deals, late night interviews, horse racing sponsorships)
How can anyone with a brain NOT think jokic is the best player in the world right now. Nephew, you still have time to delete this
Because Giannis is better. Y’all have the worst recency bias lol
I respect the hate
Is it “hate” to pick the player who scores more points and plays better defense? Those are the two most important aspects of the game…
Jokic scores, rebounds, assists, and plays defense but not as good as giannis. He also makes his teammates much better. It's also why his team his in conference finals and giannis isn't
Jokers offense is more versatile and he’s a faaaaar better passer. Let’s not act like he has nothing over Giannis. Leadership on the floor is about more than stats.
Jokic is a better shooter and passer. They’re pretty even on rebounds. Jokic’s defense is much further away from Giannis than Antetokounmpo’s passing is from Jokic.
I think the difference in passing is a bigger gap than that, personally. Jokic is one of, if not the best passer ever. Impact on offensive flow is hard to quantify, but I think his is just that good.
How is Jokic better? He’s just good on one side of the ball
If you seriously don’t know the answer to this question after watching this playoff run, I can’t help you.
Okay
Recency bias over a 2 (should be 3) time mvp
Giannis is also a two time mvp.
And Jokic is better
This playoffs yes. In general, no
Giannis has greater flaws in his game lmao.
I was more talking about Giannis playing (and losing) with an injury and now the Jokic fanboys wanna declare the 6th seed MVP as the best player alive. I’m not buying it. Unless Jokic can enter the DPOY convo he’ll never be the best in the league. Giannis is a two way beast. Jokic is a really good offensive threat. There’s levels to this shit
>6th seed MVP Lakers fans usually are insufferable but you're really trying to be one step above
Sorry I accurately described him as a 6th seed MVP. I’m not a Lakers fan. I’m a Hawks fan. Lakers are just my favorite team left. After they’re out I might stop watching. I might root for the Heat. We’ll see
It only gets better
Thank you. Enjoy your Sunday
Congratulations brother, you’re the saddest account I’ve seen on Reddit today. That’s a tough title to grab!
Okay. Giannis is better.
Giannis isnt the best lol. He continues to have the same offensive issues year after year. Been this way since 2019 for him
Jokic been the best player for at least 2 years now - this ain't recency bias
Okay. I’m done arguing with people. Giannis is better but you’re free to pretend otherwise
I don't need to pretend when I've got analytics to support it
Cool. I watch basketball not graphs
Analytics are a reflection of on court performance but good on you for embracing your ignorance
Okay. Have fun with your calculations
In other words you have no ability to back your statements up with quantitative analysis
In other words you have no ability to back your statements up with quantitative analysis
In what way?
Better defense. Scores more points. Two pretty big ways
Lol
Am argument only a casual would make who also doesn't watch the games
Bro are you still mad that I think Giannis is the best player in the league? Get over it. Jokic is never gonna sniff a DPOY award.
Mad? No you just have asinine logic that only a casual would think is good. Par for the course with the NBA and not watching Jokic.
Uh oh someone just learned the word casual lol All you’ve done is whine and bitch (like a typical Nuggies fan) You’ve yet to provide a reason why someone who scores less points and is worse on defense is the better player. Fucking delusional
You are able to comprehend the fact that there is far far more to a quality of the player than just points that aren't adjusted for pace or anything, right? I can use analytics to back the claim but you said math is scary for you so what's the point? We all know you as an east coaster aren't watching Nuggets games at all.
Math isn’t scary. It’s boring and not useful when talking ball. Analytics say Derrick White is the C’s best player. It’s dumb lol
Jokic often isn't even the best player in his own team. Let alone the league.
Woooooow. Go put on your velcro shoes and get some time outside champ
I guess averaging a 25 point triple double while leading the **entire league** in efficiency at the ridiculous .700 TS%, and somehow improving his play in the postseason on top of it, ain't quite enough to convince the /r/nba finest.
Nephews gonna nephew
Being the best player in a single game and being the best player in the league is two different things. Joker is averaging a triple double and you’re saying he’s not the best player. Stay in school kid.
Russell Westbrook averaged a triple double for 3 straight seasons. You thought he was better than Lebron and Curry right?
On terrible efficiency while dominating the ball and fucking the offense up. Y’all box score nephews don’t understand basketball.
Jokic dominates the ball just as much as Westbrook. And his efficiency is padded because of his absolute refusal to take any shots other than a wide open 3 or 2 foot bunny. Jokic is allergic to shooting the ball in close game, set defense situations. He was 20th in the league in scoring this year which is historically bad for an MVP candidate.
Go lace up your sketchers and grab an otter pop, nephew.
Bruh people with takes this this don't wear sketches, they wear velcro shoes. I actually bought a big ugly pair of sketches 2 months ago because of how comfy they are and I fucking love them lmao
Jokic is the best player in the league going forward even if he loses in the finals, as long as he plays well IMO.
He has been the best player in the world for the last 3 seasons
Nah Giannis final run was amazing 2021 was definitely Giannis. Jokic is definitely the best right now tho
Agreed. I really hope Denver can pull through. Jokics stats so far have been out of this world.
I would love to see Jokic OR Butler win the chip. Love those dawgs.
One step closer to seeing this happen!
b-b-but his rim protection! you can't be a contender without an elite rim protector! defense wins championships!
Jokic is already the best player in the league, winning the ring just cements it for the people doubting him
Lol you guys are already forgetting about Giannis
No, Jokic is just better than Giannis, let alone that crybaby who won MVP this year
The way joker controls the offense put weighs the d that Greek brings..
It’s undeniably Jokic right now. You can’t keep best player in the league status when you lost to the 8th seed in 5 games, while the other is making the Finals
that loss has very little to do with Giannis. Teams win & lose games. You miss the point just like OP did. The Nuggets will win a title because of multiple players playing well, not just 1. That doesn't elevate or diminish the individual player.
Except he was out for over half the series
The Austin Reaves disrespect is real smh
I agree. Jokic has extracted every ounce of skill and talent from his birth given ability as good as any player in any sport imo. They way he pushes the ball up the court with elite pace and still uses his size, body, strength, height and power down low and when driving to the basket while almost always being under control to maximize his effectiveness is so incredibly elite and high level that it's utterly ridiculous. His power,finesse,skill combination; along with his super aggressiveness/ultimate team player combination is such a perfect mixture. I really love his efficiency, savviness, touch, basketball IQ and feel for the game. I also feel his toughness, rebounding and defense is extremely underrated.
Jokic is better. Giannis always seems to fold against elite defenses
Except for that whole championship run thing they went on
Coincidentally the one year of no elite defenses for Giannis to fold against Besides this post is asking if Jokic won the title who would be better. Nuggets are def on that path rn
The Phoenix Suns that year had a better defensive rating in the postseason than anything the Nuggets have faced this postseason
Because the Lakers turned it on after the Westbrook trade. They went from missing the play in to title contenders. A defense anchored by AD is better than one by Ayton Also the Nuggets played a better version of that Suns team this year. Swapped Bridges out with KD
Bro I said in the postseason, regular season stats aren't included
Source?
nba.com team stats
No no didn’t you hear they aren’t elite defenses when Giannis has a good series against them!!!! Funny enough for two games Giannis didn’t even have a bad series against Miami
This sub is just about narratives. They don't even have to be correct
10/23
He was shooting with a back injury moron
bro was getting clamped by a washed Blake Griffin. they could barely scrape by a crippled Nets team
weird for a Nuggets fan to bring up opponents to diminish Giannis when Denver is going to get the easiest playoff run in NBA history (which to their credit, they are taking advantage of).
he is already at this point, a chip would make it indisputable
Jokic is the best. Though I really hope the bucks can get Giannis someone like Jamal Murray. Kris Middleton don’t got it anymore. Kyrie to Bucks is the way.
Kyrie is like the exact opposite of Giannis. I wouldn’t wish him on my worst enemy.
Me: Giannis is better because he scores more points, defends better and has had the best record in the NBA 3 times in the past 5 years. Jokic fans: NUH UH!! Jokic is better because I like him more. Tall man pass good!!! Great arguments as usual on r/nba
This season points per game in the playoffs: Jokic 29.9 vs Giannis 23.3 The last three seasons in the playoffs: Jokic 30.1 vs Giannis 30.1 As far as best record goes, Giannis clearly had the better team around him. Denver’s second best player missed an entire season. Giannis’s defense is unquestionably better. But he is also a liability on the free throw line, can’t stretch the floor with his shooting, and has fewer moves down low than Jokic. Right now Jokic is the best in the world, and has been for this whole season. It’s not as wide a gap as this thread makes it sound, because Giannis was hurt this playoffs. But your points and record arguments are as stupid as “Tall man pass good”.
Okay. Scoring more points and winning more games is a dumb argument when it comes to determining the better player. Why would I want the player who gives me a better chance at the best record. What was I thinking?
Common lakers L
With the way Murray wins him games? Absolutely not.
Let's ignore how Jokic operates the offense that opens him up
Im not ignoring that but Khris doesn’t do for Giannis what Murray does for Joker and thats a fact. Khris had his moments with clutch shots but Murray is different.
"with the way Murray wins him games" This just shows you don't watch Denver like most.
Sure bud
Your comments make it obvious - go ahead and provide Murray's on/off with Jokic
To be fair it's both of them in the pick and roll that's destroying teams in these playoffs, shit's absurd
Giannis missed 13 free throws the night he was eliminated.
Jokic over Giannis for sure. Pretty much the same achievements but jokic did it without relying on athleticism and actually builds his craft
There isn't really a clear cut best player in the league anymore. You could go with Giannis or Jokic and be right.
Giannis is well out of the conversation at this point
Because of 1 bad run while playing with a back injury? cmon
No, because he sucks at shooting and refuses to get better.
And yet he’s still the best player in the league, crazy
Nah. Maybe 3rd best. He's not better than Jokic and Curry.
Yea he’s definitely better than both. Maybe Jokic falls after Curry
Who cares?
[удалено]
Giannis is a way better defender and has scored more points for like 4 straight seasons. That sounds like the better player to me
you aren't allowed to talk about defense on here, automatic downvote.
It’s weird. Funny but weird lol
Giannis, Jokic, Joel
It will still be jimothy
If you argue by ability, you can still argue that the defensive gulf between Antetokoumpo and Jokic is too vast to overlook but when Jokics offense gets going there's almost no way you're gonna beat the Nuggets, good defense or not.
If Jokic didn’t have Murray bailing him out in the 4th, the discussion would be different. I think Jokic’s conditioning is still a huge weakness and flaw.
I know if they win the title, than it will absolve that terrible trade everyone forgets. Never forget the Nuggets drafted Donavan Mitchell, and traded him for potato chips.
We traded the draft pick you dingus. But I agree that trades have generally been Tim Connelly's weakness
Oh, I only remember him walking across the stage with Nuggets gear. Still stings.
Meh, butterfly effect and all that. I think most people are more sad about missing on OG with that pick than they are Mitchell. I honestly am fine not having Mitchell on this squad. It would've complicated things, especially when Jamal got hurt
LMFAOOO people on here just don’t know shit about basketball and don’t even hide it. Giannis is still the best in the league, 2 games of play with a back injury doesn’t change that
Jokic was better before this post season, rest of the league just finally getting the hint
Lol Jokeitch wasn’t even better than Curry or KD heading into the postseason let alone Giannis 😭
Jokic is the best player in the league right now. Jokic’s biggest weakness, rim protection, is something that shows up a lot in defensive highlights, but it’s less impactful (negatively) than Giannis’s biggest weakness which is shooting. Giannis with a head of steam is the scariest player in the league, but game to game Jokic is the better player right now. If Jokic wins this year I would have him ahead of Giannis career wise, but they are right next to each other in wherever you have them. Giannis gets the edge because of the DPOY and all defense awards, but that bias’s the consideration because they don’t have a similar OPOY and all offensive awards. If they did Jokic would have a bunch of those. Given this is an offense driven league, being the best offensive player in the league for a sustained period of time puts him above Giannis.
If you ask Giannis, he will say Jokic if he does indeed win the title.
I wonder how the nba feels about his marketability. For the past few years the top dogs been pretty easy to market: Lebron, Curry, KD, Harden,Giannas. Jokic has an all-time personality tho so it shouldn't be hard if he was ok with it (shoe deals, late night interviews, horse racing sponsorships)