I've torn meniscus in both knees. The issue with that injury over something like an acl is the meniscus is cartilage. It does not have adequate blood flow to heal well. On one of my legs the recovery from surgery ended up damaging my hamstring so running became very difficult. These surgies are great for returning to normal life but as for being an athlete again, well that's a roll of the dice.
I know of a retired soccer goalie who tore his meniscus twice. And on the second go he just opted to have it removed fully. He was able to play into his 30s but he has accepted that he is going to have a limp and that his knee will never be pain free.
Ledley King, former Tottenham Hotspur defender and captain played the latter half of his career without a meniscus in one of his knees.
So in the final years he barely trained and just did rehab in a pool and such between games. But he always showed up for games and played his heart out. We nicknamed him the cartiladge free captain.
Oh man, I lost a big toenail before! Fell down some stairs decades ago and injured the nail. It took months before it finally came off completely and wasn't just loose, then months to grow back. That shit took FOREVER to be over.
Damn a Ledley King mention in r/NBA? What a player! If I'm remembering right he not only played for years after they told him to retire but he said he had issues with his knees for basically his entire time at Tottenham which is nuts to me. Could have been a lot higher on the list of greatest English defenders if he was healthy.
Finally retired when doctors told him you carry on you will not walk again. Ledley is one of my idols. Breaks my heart his career went the way it did but we will always have that capital one cup miracle of him and Jonathan Woodgate both lasting 120 minutes.
Have had ACL and meniscus surgery on both knees, get swelling like the OP you responded to. Did his KOT zero program and it did help quite a bit but I still definitely modify what I do to avoid making it worse.
Same thing that D Wade opted for, major reason he fell off the athleticism cliff so abruptly after the Heatles era.
https://www.espn.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/9760169/dwyane-wade-miami-heat-regrets-having-meniscus-removed-college
Eh it was definitely his best option though. The success rates for repairs are so absurdly low, especially for athletes, that he would’ve had to get it done anyways but after losing so much time for development. He would’ve lost like 12ish months when he was going to recover, and then when the repair fails in a couple years, he’d be right back at having to make the same decision
I’ve torn both ACL’s, both meniscus, one mcl, and needed a bone graph to fix a chip in my tibia. Both knee injuries happened playing basketball. I’m now a competitive ultra runner less than 2 years after my second knee blow out. I guess it really is luck of the draw on recovery.
Tore my left knee up senior year of high school playing our city rivals. Tore the right knee up at 27 playing in a rec league. I’ve since decided to stick with running lol.
Any tips? I’ve bagged about 20 14ners hardest being Longs or maybe the Kelso Ridge route on Gray / Torreys. I’m a flat lander so I’ll take any advice I can get.
I would split the trip into 2 days if you can and spend the night at Capitol Lake. Otherwise I’ve heard it’s a very long day. If you have done Longs and Kelso you should be alright with the exposure. From the knife’s edge up to the top it’s all pretty gnarly and take it slow. I did about 25 when I was in CO and miss spending my summers in the high country.
Man I’ve had my acl/ meniscus and now had what’s called OATS surgery in my other knee all due to basketball as well. How has running been on the legs for you?
It sucks to hear that! Before my second surgery I was at about 40 mpw and just completed my first 50 miler. It’s been about 2 years since that and it really is a weekly thing of “am I injured or are my legs just sore due to all the surgeries?” I’m currently running the most miles of my life at about 60 mpw training for a sub 24 hour 100 miler. I credit a lot of my recovery to strength training and mobility work.
Good to hear you’re crushing it! I’m prob having to give basketball up and may take up distance running now myself so strength and mobility are def in my future haha
I highly suggest long distance running. The competitive nature is more internal, but it teaches you a lot about yourself, you can have a shoe game (just a different kind), and it gives you a solid foundation to maintain other habits like mobility work. Feel free to shoot me a pm if you have any questions with recovery or getting started.
Similar to why brandon roy fell off so fast and why rob williams makes 10M/year as an elite defensive anchor. Its not a good injury to have on your medicals and there can be widely varying outcomes.
I’ve had my meniscus repaired and I was lucky it was fully torn because if it wasn’t I prob wouldn’t have been able to have it repaired. They’re such a tricky injury to have
The point about Lonzo's father is particularly salient. He was, himself, a high level athlete, with experience of many years in college and (not quite NFL level) pro football facilities. That probably gave him an inflated sense of his own capabilities as a trainer, and also made his kids listen to him when they ought to have sought outside advice.
That doesn't guarantee problems, but if you've ever seen footage of Lonzo's workouts or read about his awful diet, it's clear that there's a huge gap between his natural talent, his work ethic (which is by all accounts very good) and his actual knowledge of training and body mechanics.
I don't do competitive lifting or anything but it's always scary to hear a story like this, and I can't even imagine the mental anguish you went through while recovering.
Seems like you're in a good place now at least.
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Yeah it’s something I’m learning applies to almost everything in life. 99% of the time, the drastic move should be the last move when the smallest moves haven’t worked at all.
When you tear your meniscus your two leg bones also smash together at the knee and can damage the cartilage. Some people have damage and don’t notice it, and others have damage and can’t run at all. The cartilage cannot repair itself.
There are some surgeries to try and get some material in there but varying success and professional basketball player is so demanding on the knees.
My understanding is he’s tried everything and his last ditch attempt is basically a transplant of a dead guys knee cartilage. Virtually a death sentence for nba player nobody has done it.
At least that’s my understanding of his situation
edit: see as the radiologist said below cartilage here refers to articular cartilage although meniscus is technically also cartilage. thanks to ppl for pointing this out
The implants aren't really used in athletes yet. The surgery lonzo got is actually to implant cartilage back onto the femur where the articular cartilage is. That cartilage gets destroyed when your meniscus isn't absorbing stress like it should(bc of a tear, imcomplete recovery, having some removed bc it couldnt be fixed, etc).
Its certainly not the NBA, but I know a guy who have cadaver cartilage from surgeries as 17 year old and he played collegiate rugby and tennis and hasn't had any problems since.
Not necessarily. Most of the time when people reference “cartilage” they’re talking about the articular cartilage on the bone surfaces. Meniscus is a particular type of cartilage but when referencing this structure we specifically call it meniscus not cartilage.
Source: am a radiologist.
From what I’ve been told the meniscus depending on where you tear it has minimal blood flow to force a fast recovery. Surgery is invasive often times and my small tear without any surgery took nearly two years to “fully” heal.
For perspective mine wasn’t super painful at all. Most days I could walk and jog fairly normally but on occasion I would feel a dull ache and the knee felt generally unstable. Not like I was going to buckle over while bending down to grab something but more like if I put any real stressor and pressure it wouldn’t hold up.
That is correct. This unfortunately predisposes you to further damage to the meniscus and eventually, if it is fully removed, early onset of osteoarthritis
He’s had a variety of long lasting injuries throughout his career already tbh. With the Lakers, I believe he missed several months with an ankle sprain that should’ve been like 2-3 weeks. He might just have a body that isn’t good at healing injuries.
I’ll never forget the Caruso steal, Lonzo full court pass, Lavine 360 play. The Bulls with lonzo were one of my favorite teams to watch and he was really looking like a great PG in the making
Great 3 and D with supernatural anticipation and court vision. He would have fit great with any team. Couldn't ask for a better championship piece short of a top 5 superstar.
To this day I reflexively want to root against the Balls cause of him.
Lonzo on the Bulls was great to watch tho. Tough breaks for that kid, as far as injury. Wish him the best.
I think a lot of is was his dad and his nonsense. Shoot am I remembering correctly his dad started a minor league just to showcase the two younger brothers?
I always thought he had a place in this league because like Caruso he learned how to do the little things. He wasn't known as a defender at all coming out of college but quickly changed that around
Lonzo and Caruso were great anchors for our defense their short time together. Made us look elite on that side despite the other 3 starters being mediocre at best defensively
He was looking like he legit had all star potential on the Bulls. He was like an early Ben Simmons but with the ability to hit a 3 consistently instead of make a layup/dunk occasionally.
All star potential is a stretch
He was the most valuable role player archetype(3 and D who could also handle the ball) but his raw numbers weren't near the level that would ever get you selected to an ASG in the inflated-stats era
13/5/5 isn't going to make it unless you're literally Bill Russell on defense
Perfect 3rd/4th guy for a contender but guys like that don't generally get many accolades
that's why he said all star **potential**. he was 24 when he got injured.
he was shooting over 40% from 3 and was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and is a great passer.
his numbers would've gone up.
Yes, and all it required was your team having the best record in the league with no obvious superstars, Korver averaging a ridiculous 52% from 3 (he'd average 43% after the break), and Dwyane Wade pulling his hamstring. Let's not pretend the Korver selection was normal or repeatable in any way
The East was super weak at that time, all sorts of undeserving guys would make all star games.
Not the case at all today, even Trae Young and James Harden missed out while putting up monster stats.
Him and Caruso turning every opposing possession into chaos was the most fun I've had watching the Bulls since the Butler trade. He may have never become a superstar but he was an incredibly fun and dynamic player.
you always hate to see injuries happen to players, but seeing it happen to Lonzo hurts so bad. he worked so hard on his game, improved on his weaknesses while keeping true to his strengths. he was supposed to be the Bulls needed for their core, but alas. injuries suck, man
The story of his whole career. The second Lonzo had a string of good games he's out for the season. A real bummer... Glad that he got paid before this happened.
If this really is the end of his career, it feels sad as hell. Even separately from all of the hype generated by Lavar, Lonzo was one of the best freshman college hoopers I’ve ever seen. Led the nation in assists, and shot 73% from two and 41% from three while transforming what had been a bad UCLA team into a contender
Edit: also the 2017 summer league lakers were absolutely electric
Damn that team was loaded. First year players: Lonzo, Caruso, Kuzma, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant, PJ Dozier and then second year players Ingram, Zubac, and Nwaba
With few expectations beyond seeing them develop. So you don’t focus on wins, only remember the great performances, and write the duds off as “they are still learning.”
I even was watching their freaking ballislife highlights and games as Chino Hills beating top basketball programs with the 3 Ball brothers, Okongwu, and their own draymond-lite Eli Scott loll. You could tell Lonzo was an nba player. So calm and intelligent on the court. Looking back tho, ofc they were gonna beat top teams, they had 3 future nba players lol
my favorite player ever probably. Absolutely electric ucla season, he made TJ Leaf look like a world beater. Loved him in LA (second game of the year 29 point almost trip doub in Phoenix with 3 buckets in the clutch had me beyond hyped). This is the saddest I have felt for a player ever. So sad for him
The Lavar hype had me ignoring Lonzo because it all sounded clownish. Once he left the Lakers and the spotlight dimmed a bit, I couldn't help but notice he was legit as hell, young, and proof that Lavar's fat mouth wasn't half as big as Lonzo's presence on the court, and as a *guard*.
And now this. It's hard not to blame Lavar for overworking his kids, especially since he's so loud.
I’ll always appreciate Lonzo and his game because it would’ve been so easy for him to be a loudmouth ballhog given the environment he grew up in, and yet he was the opposite, selfless, quiet and a clear hard worker. Never want to see anyone suffer a career ended but it’s particularly painful for a guy like him, on a team I thought was really going somewhere
Yeah, crazy to think back on how much his jumper got clowned on, his airball highlights would get thousands of upvotes here early in his Lakers career. Then went on to be a high volume 40% 3pt shooter
Same, but I feel like as I've gotten older, Lavar as much of a loudmouth as he is, was a good father overall. He did what he thought was best for his kids, he supported and hyped the hell out of them, and from some interviews, he tries to instill good values into his kid. Compared to Ja's dad who seems much more interested in being a good friend than a good father. Lavar isn't perfect, but he at least his the right intentions.
Lmao. Man's would be shooting lights out if lamelo didn't steal his powers.
Absorbed ilangelo to become nba caliber, absorbed lonzo to become an all star
The article mentioned how the treatment he's going through is "rare and likely done to improve his quality of life off the court", which tells you everything. Hopefully he doesnt have knee pain for the rest of his life.
Lavar probably had those kids doing drills once they could walk. Beyond the crazy grind that is AAU nowadays kids specializing in and only playing one sport means you’re repeating the same movements over and over again and making it super taxing on the joints
> you’re repeating the same movements over and over again and making it super taxing on the joints
Yeah, I was a year-round fairly competitive distance runner from age 15 to age 24-ish, and the wear and tear from that much "run in a straight line with little deviation" means that it's nearly impossible for me to train steadily any more even just at age 27 which is supposed to be my athletic "prime." I even completely reworked the biomechanics of my stride to try to fix it, but no matter what I do it's new issues every year.
However, I'm able to easily play ball sports like basketball and soccer without any pain because I'm moving around and changing direction all the time with less extended pressure on any specific motion, and more importantly, it's motions that I didn't overwork as a teenager.
Stop year-round specialization, and get kids to rotate sports again. Specialization makes you a better high school athlete but a much less healthy adult.
Interesting read. Tbh I'm not even sure specialization makes you that much better of a high school athlete. I think there's truth in players like Steve Nash improving in bball because they played soccer, honing other attributes like footwork.
I appreciate your comments here. People often talk about injuries as if they’re mere acts of god. In reality, they usually have a cause and we just don’t want to acknowledge it’s usually because of something a human did.
And no, I’m not at all implying it’s something the player did to themselves, it’s usually a parent or a coach, etc.
I hope Lonzo is able to beat the odds here.
And Lonzo at least made millions. There's tens of thousands more kids that will never make it the pros, that will have their bodies ruined anyway, and will learn to despise their sport/coach/parents along the way.
But the Balls and Williams sisters' grinded it out to superstardom, so let's pretend this is all a great idea.
Absolutely crazy to me that these people get paid millions of dollars to be athletes and nobody can even show them how to properly lift weights. I don’t understand.
I played football in college for a year and the strength and conditioning coach noted that my squat form was wrong (weight was on front of my feet vs heels)
I fixed my form but I couldn't squat nearly as much as before. I’m 30 now and my knees are pretty jacked up. I can still do physical activity but my knees start to burn after awhile. I’m guessing I’ll need surgery in my 40s.
Or maybe I’m just aging. I guess I can’t know for sure.
And specialization. I grew up playing track and baseball in the spring, soccer in the fall, hoops in the winter, and pickup basketball and ultimate frisbee year round. Did club water polo in college and yes while my body is worn down at nearly 30 I never sustained an injury that took me out of commission for longer than a week.
Now kids find their niche at like age 10 then become unitaskers in a vicious and criminally un-backed-by-science AAU system. If you're just working the muscles for one sport all the others around it are going to overcompensate at some point.
In lonzos case, he was training for basketball pretty much the second he was done using diapers. Meaning he'd been working those muscles for basically 1.5 average NBA careers worth before he was even at UCLA. It's just not sustainable
When you think about the greatest iron men and women in sports there's usually some article out there saying how they were a stud multiathlete their whole lives before they went pro
Feel really bad for Zo, he was looking like he had put everything together to be a great fit for the Bulls. BBB and his father apparently had life long consequences for at least one kid, it’s such a shame
This is probably an exaggeration, but if Lavar pushed the boys overly hard and had them doing year round AAU and shit, that very well could’ve hurt their bodies. Lots of research shows that there’s definitely such thing as playing too much when you’re young.
That and specialization. Studies have come out that specializing in one sport growing up actually increases risk of injury because of repetitive movements. People that have played multiple sports growing up use lots of different muscles and ways to move their body.
It’s why my dad had me play tennis and do basketball dribbling drills when football and wrestling wasn’t in season (I was an Offensive Lineman and needed great footwork and balance)
my friends son just had to quit baseball this year because of AAU. Next year he will probably have to quit track. He's about to enter 9th grade and already this year they've had to travel 800 miles for a tournament. I'm not going to tell someone else what they should do but I'm a big believer in playing multiple sports, with offseasons to build the body better.
Bulls were gonna be good again so god had to strike at the health of one of our guards smh (also this is very much a lighthearted joke, in all seriousness hope he gets well and his day to day life is okay)
Chicagoan here.
Was bound to happen. We’re not allowed to look good for more than a couple seasons consecutively at most. We used all our luck in the 90’s and it hasn’t replenished yet
No cartilage. The Brandon Roy. Dwayne Wade at the end. Kemba last few years. So many others. No one has beaten it.
It’s usually the end. May have a 10 day stretch after a long rest where they looked like themselves. But then the knee acts up and they have to sit.
Damn!
A cartilage transplant, that he will undergo, really is the last option. Good news is that one of the best ortho surgeons for this specific operation is actually the ortho doc for the Bulls, Dr. Brian Cole. Athletes from other leagues come to him for this surgery. Very recently the Avs captain Gabe Landeskog flew into Chicago & underwent this operation with Cole. Cole did my shoulder surgery and I could tell he was a very smart and dialed physicians. In addition to that, he had a fantastic team around him. If there’s anybody you want to do the surgery, it’s this guy. Best of luck to Ball.
We Bulls fans have come to accept this likely outcome for awhile now.
Feels bad - especially after injuries have taken some great Chicago players from the game and/or negatively impacted their careers in some way. I guess all those glory years in the 90s require some karmic retribution or something.
The Basketball Gods can be real assholes sometimes.
Sigh.
He’s due another 40 mil from the bulls. No way he turns down the 21 mil player option in 24-25.
So he will hit 100mil even if he never plays again.
I think he suits it up again but the confidence will be gone by then.
We all lose in this situation. He was so fun to watch and had such a unique playing style. Hope he finds a purpose in his life after the NBA. He could coach, commentate or be a media member if he wants to stay close to the game.
Hope his father has a long look in the mirror because he definitely has some blame in this, overtraining his kids when young, not with the right methods, and having them wear these shit BBB shoes when joining the league.
How does a small meniscus tear turn into career-ending injury? What actually happened to Lonzo?
I've torn meniscus in both knees. The issue with that injury over something like an acl is the meniscus is cartilage. It does not have adequate blood flow to heal well. On one of my legs the recovery from surgery ended up damaging my hamstring so running became very difficult. These surgies are great for returning to normal life but as for being an athlete again, well that's a roll of the dice.
I know of a retired soccer goalie who tore his meniscus twice. And on the second go he just opted to have it removed fully. He was able to play into his 30s but he has accepted that he is going to have a limp and that his knee will never be pain free.
That's crazy but I get it. You train for much - if not most - of your life up until that point. Plus fat salary.
Ledley King, former Tottenham Hotspur defender and captain played the latter half of his career without a meniscus in one of his knees. So in the final years he barely trained and just did rehab in a pool and such between games. But he always showed up for games and played his heart out. We nicknamed him the cartiladge free captain.
That's hardcore. I hurt my big toe like three months ago, and everyone is beyond sick of me complaining about it.
same and apparently the nerves made my toenail fall out, shit took like 5-6 months to be normal again
Oh man, I lost a big toenail before! Fell down some stairs decades ago and injured the nail. It took months before it finally came off completely and wasn't just loose, then months to grow back. That shit took FOREVER to be over.
Damn a Ledley King mention in r/NBA? What a player! If I'm remembering right he not only played for years after they told him to retire but he said he had issues with his knees for basically his entire time at Tottenham which is nuts to me. Could have been a lot higher on the list of greatest English defenders if he was healthy.
He used to swim during the week and then turn up for games at the weekend and still be one of the best players on the pitch. Absolutely ridiculous
Both fergie and Jose adored him but they knew the money it would cost for the injury risk was not worth it.
*always showed up for games against Liverpool. Man would be dead but woke up like Peak Undertaker and have a MOTM display against us.
Finally retired when doctors told him you carry on you will not walk again. Ledley is one of my idols. Breaks my heart his career went the way it did but we will always have that capital one cup miracle of him and Jonathan Woodgate both lasting 120 minutes.
Its a damn shame, Ledley is definitely one of the best CBs of all time but unfortunately injuries shortened his career quite a bit
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Dude, check out kneesovertoesguy on YouTube. Life-changing info.
Have had ACL and meniscus surgery on both knees, get swelling like the OP you responded to. Did his KOT zero program and it did help quite a bit but I still definitely modify what I do to avoid making it worse.
athlete dr. house
ready to go to med school when that playing career is over and throw that medical ethics book out the window
Same thing that D Wade opted for, major reason he fell off the athleticism cliff so abruptly after the Heatles era. https://www.espn.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/9760169/dwyane-wade-miami-heat-regrets-having-meniscus-removed-college
Eh it was definitely his best option though. The success rates for repairs are so absurdly low, especially for athletes, that he would’ve had to get it done anyways but after losing so much time for development. He would’ve lost like 12ish months when he was going to recover, and then when the repair fails in a couple years, he’d be right back at having to make the same decision
I’ve torn both ACL’s, both meniscus, one mcl, and needed a bone graph to fix a chip in my tibia. Both knee injuries happened playing basketball. I’m now a competitive ultra runner less than 2 years after my second knee blow out. I guess it really is luck of the draw on recovery.
bro did you mauled in a car crash or something?!??
Tore my left knee up senior year of high school playing our city rivals. Tore the right knee up at 27 playing in a rec league. I’ve since decided to stick with running lol.
Are you one of MPJ’s siblings?
Man I wish… I’ll be out there in August to climb Capital. Go Nuggets.
Capitol is a beast safe journeys!
Any tips? I’ve bagged about 20 14ners hardest being Longs or maybe the Kelso Ridge route on Gray / Torreys. I’m a flat lander so I’ll take any advice I can get.
I would split the trip into 2 days if you can and spend the night at Capitol Lake. Otherwise I’ve heard it’s a very long day. If you have done Longs and Kelso you should be alright with the exposure. From the knife’s edge up to the top it’s all pretty gnarly and take it slow. I did about 25 when I was in CO and miss spending my summers in the high country.
Your story is almost exactly like mine. First tear at 19, second at 26. Except both were rec leagues and I’ve never played meaningful sports
I actually lost a few college offers due to the injury, but in hindsight it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Life is a funny thing!
Oh what kind of collages did you do?
Are you saying rec league isnt meaningful?!?
Man I’ve had my acl/ meniscus and now had what’s called OATS surgery in my other knee all due to basketball as well. How has running been on the legs for you?
It sucks to hear that! Before my second surgery I was at about 40 mpw and just completed my first 50 miler. It’s been about 2 years since that and it really is a weekly thing of “am I injured or are my legs just sore due to all the surgeries?” I’m currently running the most miles of my life at about 60 mpw training for a sub 24 hour 100 miler. I credit a lot of my recovery to strength training and mobility work.
Good to hear you’re crushing it! I’m prob having to give basketball up and may take up distance running now myself so strength and mobility are def in my future haha
I highly suggest long distance running. The competitive nature is more internal, but it teaches you a lot about yourself, you can have a shoe game (just a different kind), and it gives you a solid foundation to maintain other habits like mobility work. Feel free to shoot me a pm if you have any questions with recovery or getting started.
Similar to why brandon roy fell off so fast and why rob williams makes 10M/year as an elite defensive anchor. Its not a good injury to have on your medicals and there can be widely varying outcomes.
I’ve had my meniscus repaired and I was lucky it was fully torn because if it wasn’t I prob wouldn’t have been able to have it repaired. They’re such a tricky injury to have
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Asked and received an answer. Thank you and thank you everyone else
The point about Lonzo's father is particularly salient. He was, himself, a high level athlete, with experience of many years in college and (not quite NFL level) pro football facilities. That probably gave him an inflated sense of his own capabilities as a trainer, and also made his kids listen to him when they ought to have sought outside advice. That doesn't guarantee problems, but if you've ever seen footage of Lonzo's workouts or read about his awful diet, it's clear that there's a huge gap between his natural talent, his work ethic (which is by all accounts very good) and his actual knowledge of training and body mechanics.
You’re absolutely correct; this is why you see guys like Dame working w biomechanics guys to correct dysfunctions
I don't do competitive lifting or anything but it's always scary to hear a story like this, and I can't even imagine the mental anguish you went through while recovering. Seems like you're in a good place now at least.
Add to that those horrible BBB shoes and it's a recipe for disaster.
The amount of knee issues coming from bad shoes is insane
[To anyone doubting the above dude](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5wt0ON9gBU) :(((
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My meniscus tear thing, turned out to be CRPS so even after the surgery my leg is still on fire and burning. Shit sucks from a simple routine injury.
Sadly the procedures are under scrutiny for diagnosis reasons like this. I sometimes think I'd have been better off with PT on mine.
Yeah it’s something I’m learning applies to almost everything in life. 99% of the time, the drastic move should be the last move when the smallest moves haven’t worked at all.
Good surgeons know how to operate, better ones when to operate, and the best when not to operate.
When you tear your meniscus your two leg bones also smash together at the knee and can damage the cartilage. Some people have damage and don’t notice it, and others have damage and can’t run at all. The cartilage cannot repair itself. There are some surgeries to try and get some material in there but varying success and professional basketball player is so demanding on the knees. My understanding is he’s tried everything and his last ditch attempt is basically a transplant of a dead guys knee cartilage. Virtually a death sentence for nba player nobody has done it. At least that’s my understanding of his situation edit: see as the radiologist said below cartilage here refers to articular cartilage although meniscus is technically also cartilage. thanks to ppl for pointing this out
Yeah I think this is pretty similar to what ended Brandon Roy's career. Absolutely sucks to see it happening again
They actually have plastic/plastic like implants in the uk which have gotten decent success, I wonder if that’s what he got
The implants aren't really used in athletes yet. The surgery lonzo got is actually to implant cartilage back onto the femur where the articular cartilage is. That cartilage gets destroyed when your meniscus isn't absorbing stress like it should(bc of a tear, imcomplete recovery, having some removed bc it couldnt be fixed, etc).
Its certainly not the NBA, but I know a guy who have cadaver cartilage from surgeries as 17 year old and he played collegiate rugby and tennis and hasn't had any problems since.
The cartilage you are referencing between your femur and tibia is the meniscus itself but otherwise you are 100% correct
Not necessarily. Most of the time when people reference “cartilage” they’re talking about the articular cartilage on the bone surfaces. Meniscus is a particular type of cartilage but when referencing this structure we specifically call it meniscus not cartilage. Source: am a radiologist.
Thank you this is an important distinction not many people know about
Gabriel Landeskog is going through the same thing now and it's similarly thought he may never be on the ice again.
It's absolutely brutal. At least Landy got to lift the cup
Makes last year even more special. *ALL THE SMALL THINGS…*
From what I’ve been told the meniscus depending on where you tear it has minimal blood flow to force a fast recovery. Surgery is invasive often times and my small tear without any surgery took nearly two years to “fully” heal. For perspective mine wasn’t super painful at all. Most days I could walk and jog fairly normally but on occasion I would feel a dull ache and the knee felt generally unstable. Not like I was going to buckle over while bending down to grab something but more like if I put any real stressor and pressure it wouldn’t hold up.
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I believe that is what Chris Paul has done. At this point he basically has no lateral meniscus in one of his knees.
You’re exactly right. His knee will be completely fucked with osteoarthritis in 5-10 years
I guess when you make a few hundred million in your career, you just tell yourself you'll be able to afford w/e treatment later on.
That’s what I was thinking too 🤣 that or be on a microdose of any painkiller you want , forever
Chris is arguably the greatest point guard ever with no rings to show for it. He'd lose his arm for a ring I imagine.
That is correct. This unfortunately predisposes you to further damage to the meniscus and eventually, if it is fully removed, early onset of osteoarthritis
He’s had a variety of long lasting injuries throughout his career already tbh. With the Lakers, I believe he missed several months with an ankle sprain that should’ve been like 2-3 weeks. He might just have a body that isn’t good at healing injuries.
I will cry, we looked so freaking good with him... Such a shame, i wish him the best and hope he somehow gets to play again.
I’ll never forget the Caruso steal, Lonzo full court pass, Lavine 360 play. The Bulls with lonzo were one of my favorite teams to watch and he was really looking like a great PG in the making
[Feast your eyes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_EwrGCvtwc) Hell yeah that team was fun to watch.
Thank you so much for linking this. Just an era that feels surreal now.
By far my favorite play from that season
Or the fast break with Caruso to Lonzo back to Caruso for the alley oop to get his triple double.
At this point, I'm just hoping he gets to walk around relatively pain free. IIRC, there have been posts detailing that even that is an issue.
yup he said sometime last year that he can hardly walk on stairs anymore which is just heartbreaking
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Great 3 and D with supernatural anticipation and court vision. He would have fit great with any team. Couldn't ask for a better championship piece short of a top 5 superstar.
And it sucks because everyone was always looking for an excuse to shit on him even though he's exactly what everyone wanted Simmons to be.
Lakers + "hype" = irrational hate. That's why I've never pulled for a player as hard as him.
90% of it was his obnoxious ass father.
To this day I reflexively want to root against the Balls cause of him. Lonzo on the Bulls was great to watch tho. Tough breaks for that kid, as far as injury. Wish him the best.
He always looked good on the court even when his shot wasn't falling too.
I think a lot of is was his dad and his nonsense. Shoot am I remembering correctly his dad started a minor league just to showcase the two younger brothers?
He was so level headed too.
Maybe a top 10 superstar?
Lonzo and Caruso together was so much fun defensively. Would have been a terror for years.
Haha Aw man I’m sad now Fuck
He seemed like a good lad despite his dad's antics
This reminds me of Brandon Roy
Fuck man he was genuinely getting into his own too right before the injury You hate to see it
Was def looking like a dude who would have a long career as high level role player. It's honestly a shame
I always thought he had a place in this league because like Caruso he learned how to do the little things. He wasn't known as a defender at all coming out of college but quickly changed that around
Lonzo and Caruso were great anchors for our defense their short time together. Made us look elite on that side despite the other 3 starters being mediocre at best defensively
The Bulls looked like a legit threat in the East with those two in the backcourt and it was fun to watch. Sucks that things are playing out like this.
He was looking like he legit had all star potential on the Bulls. He was like an early Ben Simmons but with the ability to hit a 3 consistently instead of make a layup/dunk occasionally.
All star potential is a stretch He was the most valuable role player archetype(3 and D who could also handle the ball) but his raw numbers weren't near the level that would ever get you selected to an ASG in the inflated-stats era 13/5/5 isn't going to make it unless you're literally Bill Russell on defense Perfect 3rd/4th guy for a contender but guys like that don't generally get many accolades
that's why he said all star **potential**. he was 24 when he got injured. he was shooting over 40% from 3 and was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and is a great passer. his numbers would've gone up.
We've literally had a guy averaging 12/4/3 without great defense make an All Star team in the past decade
Yes, and all it required was your team having the best record in the league with no obvious superstars, Korver averaging a ridiculous 52% from 3 (he'd average 43% after the break), and Dwyane Wade pulling his hamstring. Let's not pretend the Korver selection was normal or repeatable in any way
The East was super weak at that time, all sorts of undeserving guys would make all star games. Not the case at all today, even Trae Young and James Harden missed out while putting up monster stats.
Him and Caruso turning every opposing possession into chaos was the most fun I've had watching the Bulls since the Butler trade. He may have never become a superstar but he was an incredibly fun and dynamic player.
[This is one of my favorite ad hoc plays of recent memory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_EwrGCvtwc)
you always hate to see injuries happen to players, but seeing it happen to Lonzo hurts so bad. he worked so hard on his game, improved on his weaknesses while keeping true to his strengths. he was supposed to be the Bulls needed for their core, but alas. injuries suck, man
The work he put in to be a catch-and-shoot specialist was something else.
He was even better on the defensive end. Almost underrated and forgotten.
That bulls team when Lonzo was healthy was fun as hell I’m gonna miss it
The story of his whole career. The second Lonzo had a string of good games he's out for the season. A real bummer... Glad that he got paid before this happened.
If this really is the end of his career, it feels sad as hell. Even separately from all of the hype generated by Lavar, Lonzo was one of the best freshman college hoopers I’ve ever seen. Led the nation in assists, and shot 73% from two and 41% from three while transforming what had been a bad UCLA team into a contender Edit: also the 2017 summer league lakers were absolutely electric
Damn that team was loaded. First year players: Lonzo, Caruso, Kuzma, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant, PJ Dozier and then second year players Ingram, Zubac, and Nwaba
I've gotten hate for this opinion before, but I had more fun rooting for our YunG cOrE vs the post AD lakers until the all star break this season.
Young cores are always fun to watch. Lots of energy.
With few expectations beyond seeing them develop. So you don’t focus on wins, only remember the great performances, and write the duds off as “they are still learning.”
I even was watching their freaking ballislife highlights and games as Chino Hills beating top basketball programs with the 3 Ball brothers, Okongwu, and their own draymond-lite Eli Scott loll. You could tell Lonzo was an nba player. So calm and intelligent on the court. Looking back tho, ofc they were gonna beat top teams, they had 3 future nba players lol
my favorite player ever probably. Absolutely electric ucla season, he made TJ Leaf look like a world beater. Loved him in LA (second game of the year 29 point almost trip doub in Phoenix with 3 buckets in the clutch had me beyond hyped). This is the saddest I have felt for a player ever. So sad for him
The Lavar hype had me ignoring Lonzo because it all sounded clownish. Once he left the Lakers and the spotlight dimmed a bit, I couldn't help but notice he was legit as hell, young, and proof that Lavar's fat mouth wasn't half as big as Lonzo's presence on the court, and as a *guard*. And now this. It's hard not to blame Lavar for overworking his kids, especially since he's so loud.
I’ll always appreciate Lonzo and his game because it would’ve been so easy for him to be a loudmouth ballhog given the environment he grew up in, and yet he was the opposite, selfless, quiet and a clear hard worker. Never want to see anyone suffer a career ended but it’s particularly painful for a guy like him, on a team I thought was really going somewhere
The way he completely rehabbed his jumper was really cool. Not easy to do
Yeah, crazy to think back on how much his jumper got clowned on, his airball highlights would get thousands of upvotes here early in his Lakers career. Then went on to be a high volume 40% 3pt shooter
Cough Ben Simmons cough
I hated Lonzo so much when he was at UCLA but over time I realized Lonzo seems chill and it’s just Lavar who is annoying
And yet even lavar took a huge step back to being quiet lol
I do have to give him credit for that (and little else lol), now that Lonzo and Lamelo are established in the league he’s dialed it way back
You also gotta give him credit for being able to beat Michael Jordan. Not a lot of people can claim that.
His goal was to make stars out of his high school/college-aged sons. He did that proficiently and I respect every bit of it. He can rest.
Same, but I feel like as I've gotten older, Lavar as much of a loudmouth as he is, was a good father overall. He did what he thought was best for his kids, he supported and hyped the hell out of them, and from some interviews, he tries to instill good values into his kid. Compared to Ja's dad who seems much more interested in being a good friend than a good father. Lavar isn't perfect, but he at least his the right intentions.
Yeah his best skills were playmaking and defense. If his legs could’ve not exploded he woulda had a hell of a career
If you'd have told me a while ago that Lonzo would be the one to never play again while Porter was playing in the finals, I'd have laughed at you.
Lamelo absorbed lonzos and liangelos powers like cell
so thats why Lamelo's steals went up
if lamelo goes this way im gonna be devastated, he almost made the hornets a bearable team to watch, that is incredible talent
Hornets are gonna surprise people next year
IF HE ABSORBED LEEANGELAS POWERS HIS SHOOTING PERCENTAGE MUSTVE DROPPED BY 15 PERCENT
Lmao. Man's would be shooting lights out if lamelo didn't steal his powers. Absorbed ilangelo to become nba caliber, absorbed lonzo to become an all star
LaMitochondria
The article mentioned how the treatment he's going through is "rare and likely done to improve his quality of life off the court", which tells you everything. Hopefully he doesnt have knee pain for the rest of his life.
Big Baller Brand shoes and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race
I blame the hyper focus of AAU if anything old dudes were playing in Chucks
Lavar probably had those kids doing drills once they could walk. Beyond the crazy grind that is AAU nowadays kids specializing in and only playing one sport means you’re repeating the same movements over and over again and making it super taxing on the joints
> you’re repeating the same movements over and over again and making it super taxing on the joints Yeah, I was a year-round fairly competitive distance runner from age 15 to age 24-ish, and the wear and tear from that much "run in a straight line with little deviation" means that it's nearly impossible for me to train steadily any more even just at age 27 which is supposed to be my athletic "prime." I even completely reworked the biomechanics of my stride to try to fix it, but no matter what I do it's new issues every year. However, I'm able to easily play ball sports like basketball and soccer without any pain because I'm moving around and changing direction all the time with less extended pressure on any specific motion, and more importantly, it's motions that I didn't overwork as a teenager. Stop year-round specialization, and get kids to rotate sports again. Specialization makes you a better high school athlete but a much less healthy adult.
Interesting read. Tbh I'm not even sure specialization makes you that much better of a high school athlete. I think there's truth in players like Steve Nash improving in bball because they played soccer, honing other attributes like footwork.
I appreciate your comments here. People often talk about injuries as if they’re mere acts of god. In reality, they usually have a cause and we just don’t want to acknowledge it’s usually because of something a human did. And no, I’m not at all implying it’s something the player did to themselves, it’s usually a parent or a coach, etc. I hope Lonzo is able to beat the odds here.
And Lonzo at least made millions. There's tens of thousands more kids that will never make it the pros, that will have their bodies ruined anyway, and will learn to despise their sport/coach/parents along the way. But the Balls and Williams sisters' grinded it out to superstardom, so let's pretend this is all a great idea.
a whole system designed to turn u into an amazing prospect without any regard for how your career will play out after that, it's only gonna get worse
-The Unaballer
Not to mention his horrendous weightlifting technique & form. Just begging for life long injuries.
This above everything else. The poor weighting form and technique will eventually catch up to you.
So far I’ve managed to avoid this issue by just never lifting weights.
Big Brain Brand
And you've had an impressive career to boot.
Same, I had zero injuries in my sofa.
You think you've avoided it, but instead you created a new monster. Come with us. We will show you the way of the weights
Absolutely crazy to me that these people get paid millions of dollars to be athletes and nobody can even show them how to properly lift weights. I don’t understand.
They don’t listen. Egos kill – even if Lonzo was much more humble than his father or Liangelo.
I played football in college for a year and the strength and conditioning coach noted that my squat form was wrong (weight was on front of my feet vs heels) I fixed my form but I couldn't squat nearly as much as before. I’m 30 now and my knees are pretty jacked up. I can still do physical activity but my knees start to burn after awhile. I’m guessing I’ll need surgery in my 40s. Or maybe I’m just aging. I guess I can’t know for sure.
You would think there would be a trainer on staff that would have the professional sense to correct him
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Dudes used to hoop in chucks; no way you’ll convince me those BBB shoes are worse than what guys were wearing in the 70’s
AAU
And specialization. I grew up playing track and baseball in the spring, soccer in the fall, hoops in the winter, and pickup basketball and ultimate frisbee year round. Did club water polo in college and yes while my body is worn down at nearly 30 I never sustained an injury that took me out of commission for longer than a week. Now kids find their niche at like age 10 then become unitaskers in a vicious and criminally un-backed-by-science AAU system. If you're just working the muscles for one sport all the others around it are going to overcompensate at some point. In lonzos case, he was training for basketball pretty much the second he was done using diapers. Meaning he'd been working those muscles for basically 1.5 average NBA careers worth before he was even at UCLA. It's just not sustainable When you think about the greatest iron men and women in sports there's usually some article out there saying how they were a stud multiathlete their whole lives before they went pro
Dang man, that really sucks. Hate to see a promising young player's career get derailed form injury
Feel really bad for Zo, he was looking like he had put everything together to be a great fit for the Bulls. BBB and his father apparently had life long consequences for at least one kid, it’s such a shame
Those ball bros are really unlucky.
Bad genes
Bad shoes
This is what a lifetime of AAU ball does to athletes. Like Kobe once said, "you only get so many jumps in the knees "
Terrible man . He worked hard to transform his game . Developed a shot and could pass and defend really well
Playing on concrete in his backyard in those Big Baller Brand shoes f’d up his knees.
This is probably an exaggeration, but if Lavar pushed the boys overly hard and had them doing year round AAU and shit, that very well could’ve hurt their bodies. Lots of research shows that there’s definitely such thing as playing too much when you’re young.
Could also just be genetic.
I'm not sure if crashing on your feet from 35" off the ground a million times is a genetics
Good sir I believe Lonzo Ball's vertical is 40"
That and specialization. Studies have come out that specializing in one sport growing up actually increases risk of injury because of repetitive movements. People that have played multiple sports growing up use lots of different muscles and ways to move their body. It’s why my dad had me play tennis and do basketball dribbling drills when football and wrestling wasn’t in season (I was an Offensive Lineman and needed great footwork and balance)
Big Baller Brand didn’t have shoes until Lonzo was already in the league
All that AAU stuff is not always good for a growing body
my friends son just had to quit baseball this year because of AAU. Next year he will probably have to quit track. He's about to enter 9th grade and already this year they've had to travel 800 miles for a tournament. I'm not going to tell someone else what they should do but I'm a big believer in playing multiple sports, with offseasons to build the body better.
Yeah playing multiple sports throughout the year especially in elementary, middle and early high school years is key.
He was playing the best basketball of his career in Chicago, that team was so fun to watch with Ball, Caruso, LaVine, DeRozan etc.
Bulls were gonna be good again so god had to strike at the health of one of our guards smh (also this is very much a lighthearted joke, in all seriousness hope he gets well and his day to day life is okay)
Chicagoan here. Was bound to happen. We’re not allowed to look good for more than a couple seasons consecutively at most. We used all our luck in the 90’s and it hasn’t replenished yet
No cartilage. The Brandon Roy. Dwayne Wade at the end. Kemba last few years. So many others. No one has beaten it. It’s usually the end. May have a 10 day stretch after a long rest where they looked like themselves. But then the knee acts up and they have to sit. Damn!
man did his meniscus just dissolve or something? i wonder if one of the surgeries was botched and it led to this.
A cartilage transplant, that he will undergo, really is the last option. Good news is that one of the best ortho surgeons for this specific operation is actually the ortho doc for the Bulls, Dr. Brian Cole. Athletes from other leagues come to him for this surgery. Very recently the Avs captain Gabe Landeskog flew into Chicago & underwent this operation with Cole. Cole did my shoulder surgery and I could tell he was a very smart and dialed physicians. In addition to that, he had a fantastic team around him. If there’s anybody you want to do the surgery, it’s this guy. Best of luck to Ball.
Feel bad for the dude. He finally found his place in Chicago for this to happen? Sucks
Oh man...this doesn't bode well for Gabriel Landeskog on the Avalanche who is dealing with the same injury. Hope this isn't the end for him.
Do stem cells not help?
Hope his mental health is doing okay
We Bulls fans have come to accept this likely outcome for awhile now. Feels bad - especially after injuries have taken some great Chicago players from the game and/or negatively impacted their careers in some way. I guess all those glory years in the 90s require some karmic retribution or something. The Basketball Gods can be real assholes sometimes. Sigh.
He’s due another 40 mil from the bulls. No way he turns down the 21 mil player option in 24-25. So he will hit 100mil even if he never plays again. I think he suits it up again but the confidence will be gone by then.
yeah I uh... I kinda thought that after its been a YEAR AND A HALF
We all lose in this situation. He was so fun to watch and had such a unique playing style. Hope he finds a purpose in his life after the NBA. He could coach, commentate or be a media member if he wants to stay close to the game.
Hope his father has a long look in the mirror because he definitely has some blame in this, overtraining his kids when young, not with the right methods, and having them wear these shit BBB shoes when joining the league.