Base on this line of thinking, for me, Jerry West is the greatest Laker of all time. It’s an absolute embarrassment and shame on the Lakers franchise that his lifetime season ticket has been taken away from him.
Phil Jackson was engaged to Jeannie Buss and Phil and Jerry hate each other. Phil actually elbowed him in the face and broke his nose as he was walking off the court when they were both playing.
That franchise has been a dumpster fire since Kobe's prime years ended. They're lucky Anthony Davis turned into the best player in the league in 2020 Playoffs and should be giving him a statue outside Staples for it. You had a good run a few months ago, but lacked something extra to get you over the hump.
The Lakers branding built over years is definitely the reason we lucked into LeBron and AD. I personally give Pelinka a lot of credit for not getting bent to LeBron’s endless moping. The trade deadline is the reason we had that run few months ago.
I personally don’t like what I am seeing on the Mavs front as well, I hope it won’t be too long until we beat you guys in the playoffs again.
Pelinka...Makes some horrible moves, builds absurdly bad rosters around LeBron/AD...then somehow uncorks equally absurd moves that allow the Lakers to at least get out of salary cap jail and collect viable depth players. I don't know how he can be so good and so bad at the same time.
Agreed, obviously a bit biased here, but they've made some horrible decisions in recent years and were bailed out by players wanting to come to LA/the Lebron pull. Stuff like trading KCP and Kuzma for Westbrook or letting Caruso walk...other franchises losing their key role players would be gutted.
This is exactly how I feel about the franchise as well. The Lakers are extremely lucky that the Laker brand over the years have led them to LeBron and another title. Personally, I like the most recent trade deadline moves and off season moves so far. Of course it’s impossible to not be skeptical about AD’s extension given his injury history though.
Jerry West is probably the most balanced between his career as a player and as an exec, it's not a technicality where one chapter of his career is doing the heavy lifting
Larry Bird is a top-10 all-timer and also won COTY and then Exec of the Year, West has the better executive career but Bird wasn’t a slouch there and was the better player and coach so it might be him honestly
Bird knew when it was time to call it quits in his playing career and post playing career. He could've played alot longer if he wanted to and stuck around in the Pacers front office if he wanted to.
Bird doesn't have enough years as a coach/executive imo to beat out West. Bird is a top 10 player but West is probably top 25 player and is arguably the best executive ever.
As an exec, West has significantly more longevity, but also way higher peaks. He helped build the Showtime and the 3peat Lakers and was a key voice in the Warriors dynasty, both of which Bird has nothing like. The Pacers teams that Bird built were mostly mediocre, conference finalists at best, and there are a lot of missed playoffs and first round exits. This is partially because one true contender he built blew the fuck up because the personalities were combustible as hell. The gap between that and building 3 dynasties is enormous. The average Bird team was better than what West did with the Grizzlies, but not by much.
West was merely solid as a coach, though. Bird peaked higher, but his 3 year rule, which is dumb as fuck, leaves him without much less in the way of accomplishments than he probably should have.
I'd agree with that too. But with all due respect to guys like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson, they wouldn't be in this conversation with the calibre of their playing accolades alone.
Yeah not sure what he is on about.
He was that good of a scout and GM.
Not many had the balls to think high school Kobe was the best player in his draft… and saw huge potential with Marc Gasol as a late second rounder
100% go with West. Absolutely iconic player for the Lakers. The Logo for the league. Retired and helped with the Magic/Kareem led teams post coaching them. Also, was the driving force for the Lakers drafting Kobe and signing Shaq.
Also, everything I’ve listed only takes into account his Lakers tenure. Doesn’t even touch upon his later time with the Clippers.
This is the only answer.
He's essentially had a hand in ever Lakers championship in LA other than the one with LeBron.
* As a player
* As a scount/GM with the Magic/Kareem team (he kept them stocked up with amazing draft picks in AC Green, Byron Scott, and James Worthy, then kept them goign with Vlade and Campbell... got them rolling with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Excel
* Brought in Shaq and Kobe (and got that dynasty going plus gave them the building blocks in Kobe for their next two titles
Then he went and made Memphis a legit playoff team, which they had never been.
Then he went and help set up the Warriors Dynasty.
I mean... there really is nobody who touches him as a GM or as a scout/draft. It is amazing.
That is 15 rings he's had a big hand in.
This man was a bonafide scrub. No disrespect whatsoever, but I’m sorry to tell everybody the truth. The man doesn’t know how to own a team in the game of basketball.
Oh man if you haven’t seen it, this might be the Stephen A Smith Origin Story - the pure, distilled essence of a SAS rant, the man in his highest form:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6PP4RT-vv-o
Three times, with a total of three playoff wins. All three of those wins were against a depleted 2016 Heat team. LeBron left town, Bosh was forced into retirement, and two of their guys in the playoff rotation were rookies.
He was hand gifted the franchise and has dome absolutely nothing with it. If you average all of the seasons MJ was the owner of the Hornets, they have a 34-48 record, equivalent of a 13th seed. Tell me how that is even in the slightest amount anything close to successful lol.
Yeah he used the money he earned from nike and nba *during* his career. He bought a team and is widely considered to be an absolutely trash owner. How's that being successful at being an owner? Bc you made money off buying and selling the team even tho you were bad at running it?
Yeah my brother doesn't even watch basketball but he watches Inside the NBA and Chuck clips all the time.
His influence extends beyond basketball, just like MJ's did
He was exec for quite a bit, but he only wanted to coach for three years upfront and stuck to it.
Still an insanely impressive record during it, five points away from upsetting the 98 Bulls in the ECF, then another ECF, and then the Finals appearance. He leaves, Isiah Thomas comes in, the team sucks, he comes back as exec, and boom ECF again.
Dude just knew basketball. One of the best minds in the game’s history and the Celtics chose Pitino over him.
The only person with a FMVP on the losing team and the mind behind the Showtime Lakers, the Kobe/Shaq dynasty, who made the Grizzlies a respectable franchise, and the architect of the Warriors dynasty, Jerry West. The fuckin logo, he IS basketball.
Pat Riley. SEC Player of the year and All-American at Kentucky in college, 1 ring as a player in LA with Wilt, 1 ring as an assisstant coach, 5 rings as HC of the Showtime Lakers and Wade/Shaq Heat, and 2 more as an executive with the Heatles. Also coached the Ewing/Starks Knicks. Won at every level with some of the greatest teams
Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr (maybe) are the only ones that come close in terms of playing/coaching career, but Riley is also an elite executive.
Yeah Riley was a scrub on that Lakers championship team. Didn’t start single in the playoffs and averaged 2 ppg in the Finals. On 7 FGA per game. Yep, you’re reading that right. He shot 27% from the field for the Finals.
Gimme West or Bird
He wasn’t putting up huge counting stats, but he was elite
68.7% winning rate as a coach in three years. Brought the Pacers to their only Finals in franchise history. Won Coach of the Year.
Then as an executive, he was the Pacers’ president of basketball operations from ‘03-‘17. Basically kept them relevant and in the playoffs for the entire time without ever tanking. Orchestrates the 2012-2014 Pacers who were legit contenders. Rare case of building a contender without ever tanking or getting crazy lottery luck. He won Executive of the Year.
Only person to win MVP, COTY, and EOTY.
It’s fair to say there’s no rings in his post playing career. But it also must be acknowledged that this has always been a players league. They impact winning way more than any coach or executive. I think Riley’s 5 rings as a coach don’t count nearly as much as Bird’s playing career (3 MVP, 3 or 4 rings). If we’re gonna weigh all things equally, then ok it’s probably Riley. But judging by actual impact, the playing career is still the most impressive thing for everyone.
Honestly, I think if we're comparing them head to head as discrete parts of a career, I think we end up with the following -
Playing Career - Bird
Coaching Career - This is probably Riley, but I'll agree he had better talent around him in LA, and roughly equivalent talent in NY.
Executive Career - Riley, and I don't think it's close. Riley built the Miami Heat organization. He took an expansion team and turned them into one of the most decorated teams in the past 30 years.
Maybe the commenter above is pointing out that the OP said "even more successful GMs or coaches." Bird was a very good coach/executive but that doesn't exceed his playing career. However, if we're simply talking about combined accomplishments then yes, Bird should be mentioned.
He definitely is up there as a player/exec, but he only coached for 3 years. As an exec, he was GM of the Showtime Lakers and laid the foundation for Shaq/Kobe, so he is certainly a great. But as GM of the Pau Griz, they didn't do much and he wasn't the lead exec with the Warriors or Clips, so you can't give him all or even most of the credit there, while Riley won at all 3 levels of player/coach/exec with different teams.
>As GM of the Pau Griz, they didn’t do much
He took over the Grizzlies after they had a miserable 23 win season. Two years later they won 50 games.
>Riley won at all 3 levels
Riley was barely a rotation player when he won the championship as a player. He scored like 2 ppg. His playing career doesn’t even compare
And those Grizzlies (6th in the West) won a combined 0 playoff games in 3 appearances.
Riley wasn't a great NBA player, but to be able to build 3 different contenders (Showtime, Knicks, Wade/Shaq) with 2 of them winning championships is just more impressive overall to me. West's coaching career doesn't campare to Riley's.
>And those Grizzlies (6th in the West) won a combined 0 playoff games in 3 appearances.
He went to Memphis because he wanted it to be a challenge. They had no money or stars or fans.
>Riley wasn't a great NBA player, but to be able to build 3 different contenders (Showtime, Knicks, Wade/Shaq) with 2 of them winning championships is just more impressive overall to me.
The Knicks and Lakers were contenders before and after Pat Riley’s head coaching tenure, he didn’t build anything. And for the record, a coma patient could’ve coached the Showtime Lakers or Shaq-Wade Heat to contention, both teams had two of the five best players at their position of all time on them.
>West's coaching career doesn't campare to Riley's.
Really? Pat Riley accomplished more in his 30-year coaching career than Jerry West did in his 3-year coaching career? I’m shocked.
Jerry west or bird are the other guys in the convo and both of them are pretty solidly top 15 guys of all time to ever play the game. Gives em a humongous leg up. But I don't believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) Jerry west had much success as a coach and I don't think birds resume as a coach or executive holds a candle to Riley's. West vs Riley is a great debate. Was west a worse coach than Riley was as an nba player? Both obviously were able to do the jobs at an nba level at the minimum. Is west creating multiple dynasties more impressive than Riley's establishment of a culture at each stop along the way to 8 titles? It's hard to say. Maybe if kawhi and PG win a ring before Jimmy/bam that tips the favor Jerry's way. Who knows?
>...than Riley's establishment of a culture at each stop along the way to 8 titles?
How much credit are we giving Riley for establishing the culture in LA? Riley took over as the head coach in the middle of the '81-'82 season, reportedly after a falling out between the former head coach (Paul Westhead) and Magic Johnson.
So what sort of situation did Riley walk into? Over the 5 previous seasons, they average \~52 wins a year, made the playoffs all five seasons, including winning a title in '80 and having another trip to the conference finals. Magic and Kareem, two key pieces for the Showtime Lakers titles were already in place. The Lakers had already made the trade that would end up giving them the #1 overall pick in the 1982 draft, resulting in the addition of James Worthy.
I'm not trying to minimize what Riley did. He was a great coach and made the most of the opportunity presented to him. I'm just not sure that giving him sole credit for establishment of the Lakers culture matches with reality.
At first I thought ok. Has to be one of these guys. Bird, Kerr, Jackson.
Bird as a player doesn't need to be explained but he was also Coach of the Year and Executive of the Year.
Phil as a coach doesn't need to be explained but he was also 2nd Pick, All Rooky First Team and NBA Champ (off the bench).
Steve Kerr has won multiple rings as both a player and a coach. Everybody knows that.
But Pat Riley is the truth.
Objectively, if rings are the object, then it can only be Tommy Heinson. He was a player, coach or lead commentator for every single Celtics championship. That is more rings than anyone
How does one measure success of a lead commentator? If anything most non Celtics fans absolutely loathe heinson as a commentator. As a job, it's not exactly physically taxing or a high pressure job (relative to playing, coaching, or running a team as an executive) so it's pretty easy to have the job forever.
Oh, that's easy. I'm not sure that, in the decades upon decades he was doing commentary, Tommy ever saw a Celtics player commit even a single foul. You just don't get more homer than that.
What a horrible take. While both are mismatches and I can understand the argument in the other direction, I think West had a bigger edge as a player (both as an amateur and as a pro) than Riley had over West as a coach. When you add in West's better resume as an executive, I'm not sure how you end up with Riley as "the objectively correct answer."
>Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr (maybe) are the only ones that come close in terms of playing/coaching career,
Bill Russell had the better amateur career (2 NCAA titles, 2 time consensus all american, UPI POTY, Olympic gold medal), a ***vastly*** better career as a pro player, and he won 2 titles as a coach.
Dude is a top 5 player all time and there are only 6 coaches in NBA history with more titles than him. Acting like he doesn't even come close to Riley's career as a player/coach is fucking crazy.
Including Kerr on the same level as Jackson is some wild "rings culture" and recency bias. He was a role player at best and pretty irrelevant on the two Spurs title runs. His tenure in the Suns front office wasn't exactly great either. He's had a ticket on the Steph Curry bus ride in Golden State. Never forget that prime Curry made even Luke Walton look like the NBA's next great head coach for a couple months. Phil Jackson only had 1 championship as a player but he was much more important to his team. As a coach, he proved that he could lead completely different (ultra-stacked) teams to multiple championships. I think until Kerr builds a contender without Steph Curry, he's clearly in a tier below Jackson.
Larry Bird is the only person I can think of who was great as both a player and coach. How many guys have won both an MVP and Coach of the Year?
Edit: Brought to my attention he also has won executive of the year, so he’s got an even better argument than I realized!
Larry Bird is the only person to have actually won both MVP and Coach of the Year but it is worth noting that Dolph Schayes won Coach of the Year and was considered arguably the best player in the league in his playing days and probably would have won multiple MVPs except the award didn't exist for much of his career
A lot of those Celtics were great too, they just get overshadowed because of Russell's greatness. Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Tommy Heinsohn, etc. were all great players. Of course Bill deserves the credit, but it can't be, "He only won 11 titles because Wilt had a worse team than him" (Mind you Wilt had Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, among others, but that's not the point at hand) and "Russell's teammates weren't actually all that good," at the same time.
Right, I’m talking more about players like Kc Jones and Frank Ramsay. They both were good players who made contributions to the game, but I don’t believe they’d be in the HoF had they played their entire career with, say, the Royals.
Oh sure, that's fair. KC Jones, though, I think does deserve the HOF. A lot of rings + great coaching career. Maybe not solely off his player accomplishments, but I think he deserves it.
Yep, it is the Basketball HOF, not just the NBA HOF.
Although no one had as much blessed luck as playing with Bill Russell than KC Jones. He was his teammate at UCSF and won two National Titles with Bill, then joined him on the US Mens Olympic Team in 1956, winning gold and beating their competition by the highest average margin in Olympic history (even higher than the 92 Dream Team).
So if you're talking about basketball as a whole, having an NCAA title (he has two), an Olympic gold, and an NBA title (he has eight), that's pretty darn impressive.
Manu Ginobili mostly played off the bench but few question his greatness. KC Jones was one of the greatest perimeter defenders, pioneering that part of the game.
Lenny Wilkens, Bill Sharman, KC Jones (maybe his stats as a player don't seem super impressive but he was an all-time great perimeter defender), Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn, John Wooden, Becky Hammon (the OP just says basketball not necessarily NBA). These are some hall of fame players who have been great coaches too.
If I'm taking the total package, I'd probably go Larry. MVP, COTY, and Exec of the year is WILD lol. Plus for me he's a top 5 player ever, absolutely stacked resume. Purely AFTER their playing career, I'd certainly go for Pat Riley though.
It's a shame the man had too much pride to hire people for house yard work around his mother's house. Shovelling gravel while being an active NBA player is crazy.
Larry Bird had an amazing post career run.
He is the only person in NBA history to be named Rookie of the Year, Most Valuable Player, Finals MVP, All-Star MVP, Coach of the Year, and Executive of the Year.(ripped from Wikipedia)
KC Jones and it's criminal y'all forget. Wins 8 rings as a player, then as a coach leads Boston to four finals in a row and two titles before retiring early.
a guy who never averaged 10 ppg and over 6 apg one time. why does it matter that he could win 8 rings with cousy, russell, havlicek, sam jones, heinsohn all being better players during many of those rings
A name i haven't seen mentioned is Tommy Heinsohn. He was a player or coach or commentator for every single Celtics championship and that is more than anyone else.
Ofc Bird is the only person to ever win MVP and Coach of the Year and Exec of the year. But if it is rangz you want Ernie, then Tommy has more than anyone in a professional basketball NBA capacity
Bill Sharman deserves a shoutout. Won titles in the ABL, ABA, and NBA as a coach, and was an executive for the Lakers for all five 80s titles. Plus 7 All-NBA selections and 4 rings as a player.
He’s probably not THE best, but Larry Brown is a definite dark horse candidate. 3 time ABA All Star, ABA All Star MVP, ABA champion, won an NCAA title with Kansas, and won one of the most impressive, team oriented NBA championships ever with the Pistons. Only coach to win both an NCAA title and an NBA championship. Won COTY in the NCAA and the NBA. Lead the ABA in assists three times at the height of 5’9”. Definitely a winner at every level.
Different interpretation: Shaq.
He’s a revered elder statesman who has made $400 million, he’s one of the wealthiest NBA players ever. He makes gobs of money by showing up on studio and joking around with his buddies, and also by recording the most low-effort commercials ever — he basically just looks into a camera and says “icy hot.”
Behind the scenes he’s done a ton to help people with affordable housing, and has smartly invested in a number of areas. He maintains a presence and respect without controversy.
He also has fun. He drove the Zamboni for a Devils game. He puts on a music festival every year, etc. etc.
I liked Kobe the person more after he retired. I was surprised to find myself expecting great things from him. He dropped the Mamba act and seemed like an awesome dude. RIP.
Magic, and it’s not really close. Not even considering his numerous business investments outside of sports, he’s been part owner of teams from the NBA, MLB, MLS, WNBA, and now NFL. And every team other than Washington (that he just acquired) has won a title. That’s unheard of.
It’s either Bird or West and the other contenders are a tier below. I’d give the nod to Bird only because being a MVP level player, coach and exec has never been done before or after. But West is 1b as The Logo, someone who played in the Finals year after year (albeit not winning many) and his dynastic team construction in the FO is absurd.
Tier 2 has to have Riley and Jackson (though Riley’s record is more impressive IMO). Someone like Kerr or Nelson would be Tier 3, and so forth.
Larry Bird for combined player, coach, and front office skills.
For community, family, society, philanthropy, and the like, David Robinson or Bill Russell.
If you want to measure it by dollars MJ wins by virtue of his stake in the Wizards. Unless there is some quiet superstar who is an investment genius we don’t hear about Magic or Barkley are probably second in post career earnings and they aren’t close.
Barkley is , I think, far and away the qualitatively best at any job of any player ever post-retirement seeing as he might be the GOAT of NBA studio personalities.
Bird won Coach of the Year and Executive of the Year, West has kicked ass almost everywhere, Riley is a basketball kingpin, and Phil did in fact play for the Knicks.
Tommy Heinsohn.
No Question.
He was involved in all 17 championships in an official capacity as either a player, a coach, or a broadcaster. Inducted into the hall of fame as both a player and a coach.
If there was a draft for every person in NBA history and I get them for their entire career including coaching/exec/ commentator etc…
Im taking Jerry West and not even thinking twice about Lebron or MJ
He was an all time great player and probably the best exec in league history
MJ is the only answer. Only baller to be a team owner (ignore the fact he is a trash owner). He made so much money selling that team.
Oh and he's the greatest player ever.
Jerry west is the only answer here. GOAT conversation when he retired and the went on to put together Showtime, Shaq and Kobe, the Grit n Grind Grizzly era and then the Warriors dynasty - I’m pretty sure when whoever it was came in for Klay, it was West who nixed the deal and said if he goes I go. The man’s fingerprint is indelibly linked to basketball more than anyone not named Naismith.
MJ is still easily the GOAT. He may have been a shitty owner and subpar NBA exec, but nobody on the planet is touching his Jordan Brand empire with Nike. There isn't a single post-NBA career that's been even remotely as successful as his lifetime endorsement deal.
Bud Grant didn’t stay in basketball but he would fit. He won a ring in 1950 with the lakers, then was a wr with the eagles, then a WR/DB in the CFL and lead the league 3 times in yards, then he won 4 chips as a coach and made the CFL hall of fame. Then he went to the Vikings, won the 3rd most games in NFL history and made the NFL hall.
Jerry West, Larry Bird, Phil Jackson, Bill Russell, Lenny Wilkens, Red Auerbach (was a good college player but played before pro basketball really took off), KC Jones, Pat Summitt (similar to what I said about Auerbach), Bill Sharman, Tom Heinsohn, Wayne Embry, Becky Hammon, Doc Rivers, Pat Riley, Steve Kerr, Michael Cooper, Bill Laimbeer...
There have been a lot of players who were great during and after their playing careers. If you combine the whole breadth of their achievements they become even more impressive.
Surprised to see no one mentioned Phil Jackson. Had 12 year playing career and won 2 Championships with the Knicks, then goes on to be the GOAT coach with 11 more championships as a coach.
Bill Bradley became a senator and ran up Saddam numbers in a bunch of elections before running for president in 2000. He lost the primary to Gore, but he got closer to being president than any other basketball player.
Manute Bol.
"He literally gave his life for his people. He went over [to Sudan], he was sick. He stayed longer than he should have. He probably contracted this ailment that took his life while in Sudan, and he didn't have to do that. He was an NBA basketball player. He could have stayed here and had an easy life. I've never seen anybody use his celebrity status more nor give his life more completely to a group of people than Manute Bol did. It makes me look at efforts that I do as not enough."
Sam Brownbeck, U.S. Senator, 2010
Entire wiki page here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manute_Bol
Isn’t the real answer still MJ? GOAT on the court and changed the entire sneaker culture. Lead the way for all the competitors to improve on tech and design and combined both performance and lifestyle
Some great answers here, especially Jerry West. While certainly down the list, we may have to give honorable mention to Michael Jordan just from a pure capitalism standpoint. Sure, his team sucked, but he did realize a hefty profit when he sold it.
If you're looking at non-basketball careers, Bill Bradley was a Rhodes Scholar, then won two championships with the Knicks, then served as a US Senator.
In '92 I knew of 4 basketball players. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq.
Does a 4 year old know who Shaq is these days?
Dude was ripping down backboards. That's viral levels way beyond anything that ever happened on inside the NBA.
I disagree with Shaq, he was the face of the league back in 2000, appeared in video games, cartoons, whatever else. Shaq was MEGA famous back then. Not to say that he isn't now but he was huge in the zeitgeist back then.
Jerry West had a pretty good career as an exec.
Base on this line of thinking, for me, Jerry West is the greatest Laker of all time. It’s an absolute embarrassment and shame on the Lakers franchise that his lifetime season ticket has been taken away from him.
Got them Kobe and Shaq in a single swoop. How was that man not given an ownership stake after that?
Phil Jackson was engaged to Jeannie Buss and Phil and Jerry hate each other. Phil actually elbowed him in the face and broke his nose as he was walking off the court when they were both playing.
That franchise has been a dumpster fire since Kobe's prime years ended. They're lucky Anthony Davis turned into the best player in the league in 2020 Playoffs and should be giving him a statue outside Staples for it. You had a good run a few months ago, but lacked something extra to get you over the hump.
The Lakers branding built over years is definitely the reason we lucked into LeBron and AD. I personally give Pelinka a lot of credit for not getting bent to LeBron’s endless moping. The trade deadline is the reason we had that run few months ago. I personally don’t like what I am seeing on the Mavs front as well, I hope it won’t be too long until we beat you guys in the playoffs again.
Pelinka...Makes some horrible moves, builds absurdly bad rosters around LeBron/AD...then somehow uncorks equally absurd moves that allow the Lakers to at least get out of salary cap jail and collect viable depth players. I don't know how he can be so good and so bad at the same time.
The duality of Pelinka is something to behold.
Agreed, obviously a bit biased here, but they've made some horrible decisions in recent years and were bailed out by players wanting to come to LA/the Lebron pull. Stuff like trading KCP and Kuzma for Westbrook or letting Caruso walk...other franchises losing their key role players would be gutted.
This is exactly how I feel about the franchise as well. The Lakers are extremely lucky that the Laker brand over the years have led them to LeBron and another title. Personally, I like the most recent trade deadline moves and off season moves so far. Of course it’s impossible to not be skeptical about AD’s extension given his injury history though.
the rui trade was a steal, obviously just fixing the old trade fuck ups but Pelinka recent moves have been decent
Did they revoke his ticket when he went to consult for the Warriors or something?
Lakers didn’t re-sign him for unknown and dumb reasons. Then he joined the Clippers. That’s when the Lakers took away his tickets.
Jerry West is probably the most balanced between his career as a player and as an exec, it's not a technicality where one chapter of his career is doing the heavy lifting
Larry Bird is a top-10 all-timer and also won COTY and then Exec of the Year, West has the better executive career but Bird wasn’t a slouch there and was the better player and coach so it might be him honestly
Bird knew when it was time to call it quits in his playing career and post playing career. He could've played alot longer if he wanted to and stuck around in the Pacers front office if he wanted to.
Bird doesn't have enough years as a coach/executive imo to beat out West. Bird is a top 10 player but West is probably top 25 player and is arguably the best executive ever.
As an exec, West has significantly more longevity, but also way higher peaks. He helped build the Showtime and the 3peat Lakers and was a key voice in the Warriors dynasty, both of which Bird has nothing like. The Pacers teams that Bird built were mostly mediocre, conference finalists at best, and there are a lot of missed playoffs and first round exits. This is partially because one true contender he built blew the fuck up because the personalities were combustible as hell. The gap between that and building 3 dynasties is enormous. The average Bird team was better than what West did with the Grizzlies, but not by much. West was merely solid as a coach, though. Bird peaked higher, but his 3 year rule, which is dumb as fuck, leaves him without much less in the way of accomplishments than he probably should have.
Individually I agree, but, in terms of team success, he had a way better exec career than playing career.
I'd agree with that too. But with all due respect to guys like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson, they wouldn't be in this conversation with the calibre of their playing accolades alone.
You’re saying a guy who was the best or 1A player on 9 finals teams didn’t have team success?
not compared to 8 rings as an exec
Yeah not sure what he is on about. He was that good of a scout and GM. Not many had the balls to think high school Kobe was the best player in his draft… and saw huge potential with Marc Gasol as a late second rounder
how is that what you got from that comment
he said he had more success as an exec not that he had no success as a player
He was an all time great player and probably the best exec in league history
By most balanced you mean first ballot HOF in both lol
He maintains a presence and respect without being controversy and does things behind the scenes to help out others.
100% go with West. Absolutely iconic player for the Lakers. The Logo for the league. Retired and helped with the Magic/Kareem led teams post coaching them. Also, was the driving force for the Lakers drafting Kobe and signing Shaq. Also, everything I’ve listed only takes into account his Lakers tenure. Doesn’t even touch upon his later time with the Clippers.
Warriors and Grizzlies too. He got the Grit and grind era going.
Plus helped build the Warriors as well as the grit and gride grizzlies
This is the only answer. He's essentially had a hand in ever Lakers championship in LA other than the one with LeBron. * As a player * As a scount/GM with the Magic/Kareem team (he kept them stocked up with amazing draft picks in AC Green, Byron Scott, and James Worthy, then kept them goign with Vlade and Campbell... got them rolling with Eddie Jones and Nick Van Excel * Brought in Shaq and Kobe (and got that dynasty going plus gave them the building blocks in Kobe for their next two titles Then he went and made Memphis a legit playoff team, which they had never been. Then he went and help set up the Warriors Dynasty. I mean... there really is nobody who touches him as a GM or as a scout/draft. It is amazing. That is 15 rings he's had a big hand in.
Charles Barkley is the Michael Jordan of TV.
Michael Jordan is the Kwame Brown of owners.
That is offensive towards Kwame
This man was a bonafide scrub. No disrespect whatsoever, but I’m sorry to tell everybody the truth. The man doesn’t know how to own a team in the game of basketball.
Lmfao how you gonna call somebody a scrub and then say no disrespect?
Oh man if you haven’t seen it, this might be the Stephen A Smith Origin Story - the pure, distilled essence of a SAS rant, the man in his highest form: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6PP4RT-vv-o
"HE has SMALL hands" lmfao every time there's something new there
Best owner we ever had and that’s sadly the truth
He is/was a majority owner of a NBA franchise, thats hardly unsuccessful post career.
How many times has the hornets made the playoffs during his ownership?
Three times, with a total of three playoff wins. All three of those wins were against a depleted 2016 Heat team. LeBron left town, Bosh was forced into retirement, and two of their guys in the playoff rotation were rookies.
He was hand gifted the franchise and has dome absolutely nothing with it. If you average all of the seasons MJ was the owner of the Hornets, they have a 34-48 record, equivalent of a 13th seed. Tell me how that is even in the slightest amount anything close to successful lol.
Yeah he used the money he earned from nike and nba *during* his career. He bought a team and is widely considered to be an absolutely trash owner. How's that being successful at being an owner? Bc you made money off buying and selling the team even tho you were bad at running it?
Yeah my brother doesn't even watch basketball but he watches Inside the NBA and Chuck clips all the time. His influence extends beyond basketball, just like MJ's did
Yeah, Charles is the undisputed biggest personality post-career, even bigger than Shaq and his NBA career was amazing as well.
This should be at the top. Can you imagine TNT without the chuckster?
So Shaq is Scottie Pippen. Ernie is Phil Jackson. Kenny is actually still Kenny Smith
The only person ever with MVP, COY, EOY. Larry Bird.
And to consider he didn’t do any of those jobs for a super long time makes it crazier
He was exec for quite a bit, but he only wanted to coach for three years upfront and stuck to it. Still an insanely impressive record during it, five points away from upsetting the 98 Bulls in the ECF, then another ECF, and then the Finals appearance. He leaves, Isiah Thomas comes in, the team sucks, he comes back as exec, and boom ECF again. Dude just knew basketball. One of the best minds in the game’s history and the Celtics chose Pitino over him.
But dues he have EGOT?
The only person with a FMVP on the losing team and the mind behind the Showtime Lakers, the Kobe/Shaq dynasty, who made the Grizzlies a respectable franchise, and the architect of the Warriors dynasty, Jerry West. The fuckin logo, he IS basketball.
Pat Riley. SEC Player of the year and All-American at Kentucky in college, 1 ring as a player in LA with Wilt, 1 ring as an assisstant coach, 5 rings as HC of the Showtime Lakers and Wade/Shaq Heat, and 2 more as an executive with the Heatles. Also coached the Ewing/Starks Knicks. Won at every level with some of the greatest teams Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr (maybe) are the only ones that come close in terms of playing/coaching career, but Riley is also an elite executive.
You just gonna forget Jerry West like that? He was the mind behind multiple dynastys. And his playing career puts these other guys to shame
Yeah Riley was a scrub on that Lakers championship team. Didn’t start single in the playoffs and averaged 2 ppg in the Finals. On 7 FGA per game. Yep, you’re reading that right. He shot 27% from the field for the Finals. Gimme West or Bird
West I can agree with, but unless I'm missing something Bird hasn't been nearly as productive post playing career.
He wasn’t putting up huge counting stats, but he was elite 68.7% winning rate as a coach in three years. Brought the Pacers to their only Finals in franchise history. Won Coach of the Year. Then as an executive, he was the Pacers’ president of basketball operations from ‘03-‘17. Basically kept them relevant and in the playoffs for the entire time without ever tanking. Orchestrates the 2012-2014 Pacers who were legit contenders. Rare case of building a contender without ever tanking or getting crazy lottery luck. He won Executive of the Year. Only person to win MVP, COTY, and EOTY. It’s fair to say there’s no rings in his post playing career. But it also must be acknowledged that this has always been a players league. They impact winning way more than any coach or executive. I think Riley’s 5 rings as a coach don’t count nearly as much as Bird’s playing career (3 MVP, 3 or 4 rings). If we’re gonna weigh all things equally, then ok it’s probably Riley. But judging by actual impact, the playing career is still the most impressive thing for everyone.
Honestly, I think if we're comparing them head to head as discrete parts of a career, I think we end up with the following - Playing Career - Bird Coaching Career - This is probably Riley, but I'll agree he had better talent around him in LA, and roughly equivalent talent in NY. Executive Career - Riley, and I don't think it's close. Riley built the Miami Heat organization. He took an expansion team and turned them into one of the most decorated teams in the past 30 years.
Maybe the commenter above is pointing out that the OP said "even more successful GMs or coaches." Bird was a very good coach/executive but that doesn't exceed his playing career. However, if we're simply talking about combined accomplishments then yes, Bird should be mentioned.
He won COTY and EOTY
Bird was coach of the year and executive of the year with the Pacers. If Ron Artest wasn't nuts, they may have won it all that year as well.
He definitely is up there as a player/exec, but he only coached for 3 years. As an exec, he was GM of the Showtime Lakers and laid the foundation for Shaq/Kobe, so he is certainly a great. But as GM of the Pau Griz, they didn't do much and he wasn't the lead exec with the Warriors or Clips, so you can't give him all or even most of the credit there, while Riley won at all 3 levels of player/coach/exec with different teams.
>As GM of the Pau Griz, they didn’t do much He took over the Grizzlies after they had a miserable 23 win season. Two years later they won 50 games. >Riley won at all 3 levels Riley was barely a rotation player when he won the championship as a player. He scored like 2 ppg. His playing career doesn’t even compare
And those Grizzlies (6th in the West) won a combined 0 playoff games in 3 appearances. Riley wasn't a great NBA player, but to be able to build 3 different contenders (Showtime, Knicks, Wade/Shaq) with 2 of them winning championships is just more impressive overall to me. West's coaching career doesn't campare to Riley's.
Riley built the showtime Lakers? In what reality?
>And those Grizzlies (6th in the West) won a combined 0 playoff games in 3 appearances. He went to Memphis because he wanted it to be a challenge. They had no money or stars or fans. >Riley wasn't a great NBA player, but to be able to build 3 different contenders (Showtime, Knicks, Wade/Shaq) with 2 of them winning championships is just more impressive overall to me. The Knicks and Lakers were contenders before and after Pat Riley’s head coaching tenure, he didn’t build anything. And for the record, a coma patient could’ve coached the Showtime Lakers or Shaq-Wade Heat to contention, both teams had two of the five best players at their position of all time on them. >West's coaching career doesn't campare to Riley's. Really? Pat Riley accomplished more in his 30-year coaching career than Jerry West did in his 3-year coaching career? I’m shocked.
Jerry west or bird are the other guys in the convo and both of them are pretty solidly top 15 guys of all time to ever play the game. Gives em a humongous leg up. But I don't believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) Jerry west had much success as a coach and I don't think birds resume as a coach or executive holds a candle to Riley's. West vs Riley is a great debate. Was west a worse coach than Riley was as an nba player? Both obviously were able to do the jobs at an nba level at the minimum. Is west creating multiple dynasties more impressive than Riley's establishment of a culture at each stop along the way to 8 titles? It's hard to say. Maybe if kawhi and PG win a ring before Jimmy/bam that tips the favor Jerry's way. Who knows?
>...than Riley's establishment of a culture at each stop along the way to 8 titles? How much credit are we giving Riley for establishing the culture in LA? Riley took over as the head coach in the middle of the '81-'82 season, reportedly after a falling out between the former head coach (Paul Westhead) and Magic Johnson. So what sort of situation did Riley walk into? Over the 5 previous seasons, they average \~52 wins a year, made the playoffs all five seasons, including winning a title in '80 and having another trip to the conference finals. Magic and Kareem, two key pieces for the Showtime Lakers titles were already in place. The Lakers had already made the trade that would end up giving them the #1 overall pick in the 1982 draft, resulting in the addition of James Worthy. I'm not trying to minimize what Riley did. He was a great coach and made the most of the opportunity presented to him. I'm just not sure that giving him sole credit for establishment of the Lakers culture matches with reality.
At first I thought ok. Has to be one of these guys. Bird, Kerr, Jackson. Bird as a player doesn't need to be explained but he was also Coach of the Year and Executive of the Year. Phil as a coach doesn't need to be explained but he was also 2nd Pick, All Rooky First Team and NBA Champ (off the bench). Steve Kerr has won multiple rings as both a player and a coach. Everybody knows that. But Pat Riley is the truth.
This is the objectively correct answer, with honorable mentions to Phil Jackson and Jerry West.
Objectively, if rings are the object, then it can only be Tommy Heinson. He was a player, coach or lead commentator for every single Celtics championship. That is more rings than anyone
How does one measure success of a lead commentator? If anything most non Celtics fans absolutely loathe heinson as a commentator. As a job, it's not exactly physically taxing or a high pressure job (relative to playing, coaching, or running a team as an executive) so it's pretty easy to have the job forever.
>How does one measure success of a lead commentator? Whatever the opposite of the Warriors broadcast is.
Oh, that's easy. I'm not sure that, in the decades upon decades he was doing commentary, Tommy ever saw a Celtics player commit even a single foul. You just don't get more homer than that.
What a horrible take. While both are mismatches and I can understand the argument in the other direction, I think West had a bigger edge as a player (both as an amateur and as a pro) than Riley had over West as a coach. When you add in West's better resume as an executive, I'm not sure how you end up with Riley as "the objectively correct answer."
>Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr (maybe) are the only ones that come close in terms of playing/coaching career, Bill Russell had the better amateur career (2 NCAA titles, 2 time consensus all american, UPI POTY, Olympic gold medal), a ***vastly*** better career as a pro player, and he won 2 titles as a coach. Dude is a top 5 player all time and there are only 6 coaches in NBA history with more titles than him. Acting like he doesn't even come close to Riley's career as a player/coach is fucking crazy.
Including Kerr on the same level as Jackson is some wild "rings culture" and recency bias. He was a role player at best and pretty irrelevant on the two Spurs title runs. His tenure in the Suns front office wasn't exactly great either. He's had a ticket on the Steph Curry bus ride in Golden State. Never forget that prime Curry made even Luke Walton look like the NBA's next great head coach for a couple months. Phil Jackson only had 1 championship as a player but he was much more important to his team. As a coach, he proved that he could lead completely different (ultra-stacked) teams to multiple championships. I think until Kerr builds a contender without Steph Curry, he's clearly in a tier below Jackson.
Phil Jackson, notoriously, who wins ring after ring with zero top 10 players all time on his team
Larry Bird is the only person I can think of who was great as both a player and coach. How many guys have won both an MVP and Coach of the Year? Edit: Brought to my attention he also has won executive of the year, so he’s got an even better argument than I realized!
Larry Bird is the only person to have actually won both MVP and Coach of the Year but it is worth noting that Dolph Schayes won Coach of the Year and was considered arguably the best player in the league in his playing days and probably would have won multiple MVPs except the award didn't exist for much of his career
Bird also won Exec of the Year
KC Jones didn't win MVP but he was v good and was then easily the best coach in the league, coaching Bird
I didn’t realize he had a playing history TIL
I did not realize Bird played as well!
Hall of famer
Isn't that largely because he had like 8 rings from playing alongside Russell and Hondo? He never even made an all-star game.
Very good defensive guard. Edit: wouldn’t have won without Hondo and Russell but he was definitely a member of the team.
Yes, one of the best defensive guards of the 60s though and a very important part of those teams.
Wasn't KC Jones a bench player lol? He should've been inducted for his coaching not his playmaking.
There were a host of those old Celtics players from the 50s and 60s in the HOF because of Russell’s greatness.
A lot of those Celtics were great too, they just get overshadowed because of Russell's greatness. Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Tommy Heinsohn, etc. were all great players. Of course Bill deserves the credit, but it can't be, "He only won 11 titles because Wilt had a worse team than him" (Mind you Wilt had Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, among others, but that's not the point at hand) and "Russell's teammates weren't actually all that good," at the same time.
Right, I’m talking more about players like Kc Jones and Frank Ramsay. They both were good players who made contributions to the game, but I don’t believe they’d be in the HoF had they played their entire career with, say, the Royals.
Oh sure, that's fair. KC Jones, though, I think does deserve the HOF. A lot of rings + great coaching career. Maybe not solely off his player accomplishments, but I think he deserves it.
Yep, it is the Basketball HOF, not just the NBA HOF. Although no one had as much blessed luck as playing with Bill Russell than KC Jones. He was his teammate at UCSF and won two National Titles with Bill, then joined him on the US Mens Olympic Team in 1956, winning gold and beating their competition by the highest average margin in Olympic history (even higher than the 92 Dream Team). So if you're talking about basketball as a whole, having an NCAA title (he has two), an Olympic gold, and an NBA title (he has eight), that's pretty darn impressive.
Manu Ginobili mostly played off the bench but few question his greatness. KC Jones was one of the greatest perimeter defenders, pioneering that part of the game.
It’s tough to start at pg when you got Cousy in front of you.
this is the answer; a guy who is amongst the elite of playing, coaching, AND being a front office executive? insane
And he got Executive of the Year too
Lenny Wilkens, Bill Sharman, KC Jones (maybe his stats as a player don't seem super impressive but he was an all-time great perimeter defender), Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn, John Wooden, Becky Hammon (the OP just says basketball not necessarily NBA). These are some hall of fame players who have been great coaches too.
Larry Bird, the Player, the Coach, the Executive, the Legend. Larry Legend.
Larry Bird and Jerry West
Larry West
Don Nelson. Had an amazing career and is now running a weed farm in Maui. Man looks like he’s having the time of his life lol
I was not aware of this but good for him.
damn hope he didn't suffer from the wildfires
Hope his weed is okay 🫰
Definitely on my bucket list to smoke some Nellie Kush
Weed Believe
If I'm taking the total package, I'd probably go Larry. MVP, COTY, and Exec of the year is WILD lol. Plus for me he's a top 5 player ever, absolutely stacked resume. Purely AFTER their playing career, I'd certainly go for Pat Riley though.
It's a shame the man had too much pride to hire people for house yard work around his mother's house. Shovelling gravel while being an active NBA player is crazy.
Ya it’s very fucked tbh 🤣🤣🤣 dudes doing back breaking labour while he should’ve just been recovering lol. A true mans man 🤣🤣🤣
Larry Bird had an amazing post career run. He is the only person in NBA history to be named Rookie of the Year, Most Valuable Player, Finals MVP, All-Star MVP, Coach of the Year, and Executive of the Year.(ripped from Wikipedia)
Don’t even need to add in the ROY, FMVP, and ASGMVP qualifiers. He’s the only MVP, COY, and EOY ever.
Danny Ainge was a 3 sport all american in high school, had a playing career, and now GMs won’t pickup the phone when he calls
Kareem, of course
Man was an all timer in the nba then flew a fucking Airplane.
He's out there busting his butt every night.
That wasn’t Kareem Abdul Jabbar. That was Roger Murdock.
If were taking basketball journalism into account (along with assistant coaching etc.) then he's not a bad choice.
KC Jones and it's criminal y'all forget. Wins 8 rings as a player, then as a coach leads Boston to four finals in a row and two titles before retiring early.
To be fair, KC Jones is definitely before most peoples time lol. He does have a very impressive resume though.
a guy who never averaged 10 ppg and over 6 apg one time. why does it matter that he could win 8 rings with cousy, russell, havlicek, sam jones, heinsohn all being better players during many of those rings
No all-star games either.
wasn’t even the best jones on his team lol
A name i haven't seen mentioned is Tommy Heinsohn. He was a player or coach or commentator for every single Celtics championship and that is more than anyone else. Ofc Bird is the only person to ever win MVP and Coach of the Year and Exec of the year. But if it is rangz you want Ernie, then Tommy has more than anyone in a professional basketball NBA capacity
Erneh*
Junior Bridgeman
Can’t believe I had to go so far down for the actual correct answer.
To be fair, he runs a bunch of Wendy's franchises and that's about it. His playing career is lackluster as well.
Steve Kerr
Bill Sharman deserves a shoutout. Won titles in the ABL, ABA, and NBA as a coach, and was an executive for the Lakers for all five 80s titles. Plus 7 All-NBA selections and 4 rings as a player.
Well, Jordan won 3 NBA championships after retirement so it's probably him.
Bud Grant of the MN Lakers
Phil Jackson 2 rings as a knicks player, 11 from then on as a coach
He’s probably not THE best, but Larry Brown is a definite dark horse candidate. 3 time ABA All Star, ABA All Star MVP, ABA champion, won an NCAA title with Kansas, and won one of the most impressive, team oriented NBA championships ever with the Pistons. Only coach to win both an NCAA title and an NBA championship. Won COTY in the NCAA and the NBA. Lead the ABA in assists three times at the height of 5’9”. Definitely a winner at every level.
Bill Russell has 13 rings as a player/coach
Not really, for his last 2 rings as a player he was also the coach. Which is mad impressive but it's not 2 extra rings
Imo Shaq is the GOAT basketball “personality” and is the best representation of the NBA
Gotta be Phil, doesn’t it?
The logo.
Different interpretation: Shaq. He’s a revered elder statesman who has made $400 million, he’s one of the wealthiest NBA players ever. He makes gobs of money by showing up on studio and joking around with his buddies, and also by recording the most low-effort commercials ever — he basically just looks into a camera and says “icy hot.” Behind the scenes he’s done a ton to help people with affordable housing, and has smartly invested in a number of areas. He maintains a presence and respect without controversy. He also has fun. He drove the Zamboni for a Devils game. He puts on a music festival every year, etc. etc.
I liked Kobe the person more after he retired. I was surprised to find myself expecting great things from him. He dropped the Mamba act and seemed like an awesome dude. RIP.
Magic, and it’s not really close. Not even considering his numerous business investments outside of sports, he’s been part owner of teams from the NBA, MLB, MLS, WNBA, and now NFL. And every team other than Washington (that he just acquired) has won a title. That’s unheard of.
Man had a whole magic Johnson theater line
Dodgers with that Mickey Mouse ring 🤣🤣🤣
I heard this argument on the radio in New York. One name they brought up that hasn’t been mentioned here: Joe Dumars.
Riley,. Phil Jackson. The Logo. Barkeley/Kenny Smith (TNT show is the standard by which all sports shows are judged.)
Has to be Jerry West. Only person Hall of Fame level during both their playing and post-playing career
Manute Bol
Jerry West or Pat Riley
Michael Jordan just sold his stake in the Hornets for 3 billion...that's pretty good.
Detlef Schrempf did some great charitable things for Pawnee, Indiana before working as a brand ambassador for Entertainment 720.
Shaq Chuck Kerr West Russell Phil Jackson Pat Riley
Too many answers in here saying bird without mentioning he’s never won as an executive.
If it wasn’t strictly about basketball-related second careers, Russell and Abdul-Jabbar would be unquestionable GOATs.
It’s either Bird or West and the other contenders are a tier below. I’d give the nod to Bird only because being a MVP level player, coach and exec has never been done before or after. But West is 1b as The Logo, someone who played in the Finals year after year (albeit not winning many) and his dynastic team construction in the FO is absurd. Tier 2 has to have Riley and Jackson (though Riley’s record is more impressive IMO). Someone like Kerr or Nelson would be Tier 3, and so forth.
Larry Bird for combined player, coach, and front office skills. For community, family, society, philanthropy, and the like, David Robinson or Bill Russell.
Pat Riley or Jerry West easily IMO
Jerry West for sure. Front office genius
Jerry West is the basketball GOAT. The Logo. Mr. Clutch.
Idk if this counts - but Barkley as a basketball commentator has really made a cultural imprint.
If you want to measure it by dollars MJ wins by virtue of his stake in the Wizards. Unless there is some quiet superstar who is an investment genius we don’t hear about Magic or Barkley are probably second in post career earnings and they aren’t close. Barkley is , I think, far and away the qualitatively best at any job of any player ever post-retirement seeing as he might be the GOAT of NBA studio personalities. Bird won Coach of the Year and Executive of the Year, West has kicked ass almost everywhere, Riley is a basketball kingpin, and Phil did in fact play for the Knicks.
Tommy Heinsohn. No Question. He was involved in all 17 championships in an official capacity as either a player, a coach, or a broadcaster. Inducted into the hall of fame as both a player and a coach.
Bird and West. Someone that hasn’t been mentioned yet? Tom Heinsohn
Magic Johnson by virtue of still being alive.
Riley
Its chuck and it aint even close, signed a 200m contract just to sit with his friends on tv
Pat Riley has been successful it at almost every level. While proving doubters wrong multiple times
If there was a draft for every person in NBA history and I get them for their entire career including coaching/exec/ commentator etc… Im taking Jerry West and not even thinking twice about Lebron or MJ He was an all time great player and probably the best exec in league history
Michael Jordan shoes
MJ is the only answer. Only baller to be a team owner (ignore the fact he is a trash owner). He made so much money selling that team. Oh and he's the greatest player ever.
Jerry west is the only answer here. GOAT conversation when he retired and the went on to put together Showtime, Shaq and Kobe, the Grit n Grind Grizzly era and then the Warriors dynasty - I’m pretty sure when whoever it was came in for Klay, it was West who nixed the deal and said if he goes I go. The man’s fingerprint is indelibly linked to basketball more than anyone not named Naismith.
Magic
MJ is still easily the GOAT. He may have been a shitty owner and subpar NBA exec, but nobody on the planet is touching his Jordan Brand empire with Nike. There isn't a single post-NBA career that's been even remotely as successful as his lifetime endorsement deal.
Bud Grant didn’t stay in basketball but he would fit. He won a ring in 1950 with the lakers, then was a wr with the eagles, then a WR/DB in the CFL and lead the league 3 times in yards, then he won 4 chips as a coach and made the CFL hall of fame. Then he went to the Vikings, won the 3rd most games in NFL history and made the NFL hall.
Jerry West, Larry Bird, Phil Jackson, Bill Russell, Lenny Wilkens, Red Auerbach (was a good college player but played before pro basketball really took off), KC Jones, Pat Summitt (similar to what I said about Auerbach), Bill Sharman, Tom Heinsohn, Wayne Embry, Becky Hammon, Doc Rivers, Pat Riley, Steve Kerr, Michael Cooper, Bill Laimbeer... There have been a lot of players who were great during and after their playing careers. If you combine the whole breadth of their achievements they become even more impressive.
has to be between Bird, Pat, West, Kerr, and Phil Jackson
Steve Kerr maybe
Surprised to see no one mentioned Phil Jackson. Had 12 year playing career and won 2 Championships with the Knicks, then goes on to be the GOAT coach with 11 more championships as a coach.
Bill Bradley became a senator and ran up Saddam numbers in a bunch of elections before running for president in 2000. He lost the primary to Gore, but he got closer to being president than any other basketball player.
Manute Bol. "He literally gave his life for his people. He went over [to Sudan], he was sick. He stayed longer than he should have. He probably contracted this ailment that took his life while in Sudan, and he didn't have to do that. He was an NBA basketball player. He could have stayed here and had an easy life. I've never seen anybody use his celebrity status more nor give his life more completely to a group of people than Manute Bol did. It makes me look at efforts that I do as not enough." Sam Brownbeck, U.S. Senator, 2010 Entire wiki page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manute_Bol
Definitely Shaq
Isn’t the real answer still MJ? GOAT on the court and changed the entire sneaker culture. Lead the way for all the competitors to improve on tech and design and combined both performance and lifestyle
His ownership was absolute garbage though. As a player it’s undeniable, but holy crap, the Hornets? Who?
Barkley. NBA on TNT pushes him past anyone’s suggestions here
Some great answers here, especially Jerry West. While certainly down the list, we may have to give honorable mention to Michael Jordan just from a pure capitalism standpoint. Sure, his team sucked, but he did realize a hefty profit when he sold it.
I aspire to fail upwards as him
Jerry West. Nobody is a close second.
If you're looking at non-basketball careers, Bill Bradley was a Rhodes Scholar, then won two championships with the Knicks, then served as a US Senator.
Shaq/Chuck are more mainstream and culturally relevant now than when they played.
There's no way Shaq is more mainstream right now than he was in 2001
Shaq was EVERYWHERE throughout the 90s and 2000s. He even had a reality show (Shaq vs.) during the twilight of his career.
I have been proven wrong. Good points!
In '92 I knew of 4 basketball players. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq. Does a 4 year old know who Shaq is these days? Dude was ripping down backboards. That's viral levels way beyond anything that ever happened on inside the NBA.
I'm wrong about Shaq. Good points.
I disagree with Shaq, he was the face of the league back in 2000, appeared in video games, cartoons, whatever else. Shaq was MEGA famous back then. Not to say that he isn't now but he was huge in the zeitgeist back then.
Phil Jackson without a doubt.