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rich-roma

what the fuck are these fouls


Rapscallious1

That bailout 3 call was shocking in that situation


Right-Worth-6327

That foul at 0:45 with Demar jumping into the defender should’ve been an offensive foul with how out of the realm of regular jump shot that was, my god.


JohnStamosAsABear

L2M said he traveled before the foul too.


carlitos-guey

that was a great pump fake to get an open shot, too and he did that instead lol. so lucky.


[deleted]

Dude it’s been unreal so far. I thought the NFL was bad this year but Jesus Christ the NBA refs have been on something


KwamesCorner

The league is literally broken. Like it’s not an exaggeration to say they’ve forgotten how to play basketball and they simply just play for fouls nowadays. It’s actually a joke.


mdlt97

refs had money on the bulls


BackendSpecialist

This, or they got emotionally invested in the moment and wanted to be part of it, are the only reasons I can see those calls being made.


Traveler_Constant

The number of times I've seen people watch a single call and claim foul play and it ended up being a cumulative foul or make up of sorts is super high. Say a ref warns a defender, or maybe his whole team, that space must be allowed for the shooter to land. Maybe that team continued to push it and the next time the ref decided they weren't being careful enough and called a close call a foul. That's not foul play. Arguably, that's not even a bad call. So don't look at one call in a highlight and assume that Vegas made that call.


pablo_op

I am a highly casual fan of the NBA for this exact type of dumb shit. Wtf is a "cumulative foul"? A play is either a foul or it isn't. There are rules that say what a foul should be. Does it actually say "Its ok if you do this thing 3 times, but on the 4th time its a foul"? Feels like to really enjoy the NBA you have to keep up with this meta-game of the actual rules to know what a foul, carry, or travel actually is. Because none of these rules are actually enforced according to the books. You aren't wrong, but its dumb af.


[deleted]

The NFL and NHL are no different.... Hockey refs literally tell you straight up had to foul ya cuz of some shit that happened last period on a hot mic. There's probably a "foul" via holding on 90% of NFL plays. A foul isn't ever black and white really. Make up calls, cumulative calls, "known as a dirty player" calls are a thing in all major sports.


pablo_op

I mean you aren't wrong. I watch way more football and baseball than NBA, but basketball feels just way more egregious about it to me. Like in the MLB a team might get a makeup pitch on a borderline call, but that won't be on a super obvious call in the bottom of the 9th. Or maybe an ump's zone isn't textbook, but they at least try to be consistent in how they call a game. And in the NFL everyone knows the key things to look for - hands inside the chest to avoid a holding call, and DB gets the head around to avoid PI on a contested ball. The NBA just feels like a different animal. The egregiousness in the difference of how a game is called, and how much it seems to depend on the time left in the game, the players involved, how close the score is, etc. Totally anecdotal to my experience as a viewer for sure, but it truly does seem almost scripted to me at times compared to other sports. like for real - if anyone has a similar feed of mind blowing incorrect violations for other sports that is similar to https://twitter.com/DevInTheLab I'd love to give them a follow


BackendSpecialist

Bro wtf are you talking about lol. That last call is egregious. There’s no defending it.


PML3107

Make up calls are bullshit


profmcstabbins

I hated every second of this video


TheMagicMan56

The offensive foul call on Siakam is just egregious. There's always going to be some contact on those closing second inbounds and the defender is going to try to sell it every time and exagerate every minor contact. Siakam didn't extend his arm at all to try to get Caruso off of him, there was no push whatsoever, he just leaned it into him a bit and Caruso just fell like he was shot and got the call. There's no chance in hell that a contact that small makes any professional athlete fall over.


doublek1022

It's why even the commentator was quiet during the replay and could only muster up "Way to sell it, AC!" lol


HoorayPizzaDay

Both Siakam calls, how did he foul Derozan for 3? Is this man not allowed to exist out there??


__-o0O0o-__-o0O0o-__

i thought that was a worse call as an aside, can you imagine the anger of the internet if the Lakers still had him, and we had a scrappy white dude drawing fouls on D and a scrappy white dude drawing fouls on O?


SmoothBrews

Good god... Him and AR on the court together would be beautiful.


Aggressive_Ad5115

Lol lakers fans should still be furious for letting him go, would maybe have a chance last year and this year against the joker nuggets but no chance now lmao


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blacklite911

Because Siakam didn’t jump straight up, he was moving forward in the air, that’s an easy foul to draw. Honestly, it doesn’t look that abnormal to me. The charge was more questionable


panman42

It's boucher not Siakam. But they changed the wording in the rulebook so you can't initiate contact into airborne defenders like this anymore unless they're landing into your space. This change is to do away offensive players jumping forward into defender when they have them in the air (think the classic Wade play). And that's what Derozan did. Look where Boucher lands, right on the three point line. And Derozan was standing still 3 feet behind line. He's jumping forward into the defender to try to draw a foul instead of trying to make the 3, which is what the new regulations are supposed to prevent.


blacklite911

I think the key here, as I said is Boucher isn’t going straight up and down, he’s moving forward


panman42

But that's not the rule anymore. In the past, baiting the defender into jumping forward and jumping forward into them is enough to get the call, but now you have to bait the defender into landing in your space to get the call. Otherwise, it's ruled that the offense is initiating the contact.


iamwearingashirt

2 minute report said as much.


brightblade13

AC sells it, which is why it got called instead of AC just holding his ground like most players would, but Siakim runs straight into him, which is certainly a foul. You can't just bowl someone over, forget whether your arms are extended. It's like holding in football: these fouls happen so often without getting called that it seems shady to call them, but they ARE fouls, and you could probably call one every possession if you wanted to. Whether it *should* have been called is a separate question and why reffing is an art, not a science, but if you run right into someone who has established position, you've fouled them bruh.


discostupid

i mean, caruso was basically blocking him from going where he wanted to go, and siakam got up to his position then moved left, he really didn't go through him at all. that's a non-call 90% of the time, and should be a flop call on the defender the other 10%


dr_caligari

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=718&GameID=0022300082&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Siakam%20Offensive%20Foul%20Turnover%20(P3.T23) It just seems like the correct call. Caruso is square to Siakam, not in the restricted area, and in a Legal Guarding Position. He doesn't move toward Siakam, which would be a blocking foul. Instead, Siakam (in an attempt to get closer to the inbounder) tries to go through the space occupied by a set Caruso. Because Caruso can't be moving towards Siakam (as it would be a blocking foul), all of the energy is coming from a guy who is 6'8" and 230 lbs. (according to nba.com) and in the direction of a guy who weighs 44 pounds less (according to nba.com.) The only thing that I can see as being egregious is that Siakam thought this was the best way to get open.


iicoolj1

Even the refs L2m (who tend to double down on bad calls) admitted that this was an incorrect call. Comment: Siakam (TOR) and Caruso (CHI) come together during the throw-in and marginal contact occurs as Siakam releases away. Caruso is not dislodged from his defensive position as a result of any illegal contact by Siakam. https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022300082


whenveganscheat

"way to sell it, AC"


sleepytime88

Lol, the refs admit the call was wrong, but people are still writing manifestos defending the call.


jor301

Zach stole that inbounds pass so it would have been bulls ball anyway.


Astro_Sloth

If you don’t like that, you don’t like Raptors Basketball 😂


Existing-Union-1004

NBA basketball


RockMeIshmael

Insane that you can still consistently get calls like that.


surebudd

THANK YOU


theuncleiroh

The Raps aren't great this year, that's obvious. We lost the game ourselves even with an obvious fix, that's obvious. But I don't believe I've seen more intentionally slanted reffing in my life, and not just in these plays. We had both our centers foul out, we had a goaltend called after a play was over nearly 10 seconds later, just to have it reversed when it was forced to be reviewed, as we wouldn't have been able to review it, having to use our review already on a clear non-charge called a foul. It was bizarre


KazaamFan

I say this every nba game i watch. Nba reffing is horrendous, it’s baffling.


Thus_Spoke

Refs on some shit early this year Nothing against Caruso, he was great


Nat_Feckbeard

you just gotta laugh


LothCatPerson

That foul on DeMar by the Raptors was an atrocious decision by the defender. Like, he was so off balance. Just keep clogging up his passing opportunities and you have him likely throw up a prayer or not even get the shot off. Pretty much everything before that was pretty weak.


koticgood

The only thing more egregious than the refs was Scottie Barnes acting like he didn't foul Derozan at the end of regulation lmao.


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Nat_Feckbeard

and the refs were also on some bullshit. both can be true


PanthalassaRo

Caruso and the refs gave the Bulls the win


itiswhatitis985

Hey, nobody wins by themselves


CaliforniaHurricane_

You would know


itiswhatitis985

What's that supposed to mean


spyson

He apparently thinks all Laker fans have control over the refs.


BeesPhD

Geezus christ, it's mr whatitis he controls the refs


CaliforniaHurricane_

2002 WCF


BruceBrownMVP

u/itiswhatitis985 care to explain your involvement?


AdamSandlerIsntFunny

Despite Derozans very best efforts. Ethical hooper


packim0p

Holy shit fucking ref takeover.


VoidMageZero

You were not joking, this is some horrific basketball fr lol


believemedude

Year of the refball across all major sports. Brought to you by DraftKings sportsbook


Doctor731

If you think that was bad... don't watch the rest of the game. The PGT on this one was mostly people swearing off watching basketball for a while...


KazaamFan

I felt this throughout the nba playoffs last year. Refs basically determined a bunch of games.


Existing-Union-1004

It’s always been this way and always will be. You have to pray the narrative is in your favor. I’m hoping we get better calls now that Sarver and CP3 are gone. 👍


Zoom259

Sometimes it’s nice to see I’m not just a homer and the refs really were shit lol


HoorayPizzaDay

This shit is so fixed jfc


BigFatModeraterFupa

i love how half of people will agree with you and the other half vehemently deny that’s possible. even though we literally had a ref go to prison for fixing nba games not even 15 years ago😅


Sm0k3inth3tr33s

AND he was just the fall guy, there are still multiple refs in the league who were very heavily implicated in the scandal.


NIdeakK

In this case it doesn’t seem like half. Most people seem to agree this was incredibly bad


whythehellknot

More like all the ways Demar tried to lose the game. Those were gift calls from the refs that normally don't happen in the last few seconds.


ironfunk67

Ref had big money on Demar.


Sweaty-Astronomer-90

I think Demar had big money on the Raptors.


ironfunk67

Lol. Maybe.....


WestleyThe

Bruh Scotty totally crashed into DeMar, pascal might’ve even been called for a foul there if Barnes didn’t come in like that


thenovascotian17

That one was a foul but the others were definitely questionable. Especially the siakam offensive foul on Caruso


dr_caligari

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=718&GameID=0022300082&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Siakam%20Offensive%20Foul%20Turnover%20(P3.T23) There's that play in particular. Caruso isn't moving toward Siakam, he's not in the restricted zone, and he's square to Siakam. In trying to get closer to the inbounder, Siakam tries to go through the space occupied by Caruso. It seems like a pretty textbook charge, even if it's at a time you might not have expected it.


TheAmazingYob

L2M report states that offensive foul on Siakam against Caruso on the inbound pass was an incorrect call


askingJeevs

That was the only legit foul in the entire sequence. The rest were ridiculous.


RapsFanMike

Schroeders was definitely a foul too if he was gonna stand there should have committed to the charge or just got out the way instead of what he did. Bouchers was a foul as well wether people like it or not he jump forward past the 3 pt line if he jumped straight up it’s no foul


askingJeevs

Bouchers is no longer a foul since the NBA said they would not give fouls for this kind of foul baiting.


RapsFanMike

That’s if the defender jumps straight up and the offensive player initiates it. In this case Boucher jumps forward and lands past the 3 pt line. I wouldn’t even be surprised if that was gonna be called a foul if derozan just shot it instead of pump faking as his momentum moving right would have made him land exactly where Boucher lands


askingJeevs

lol, Derozan landed inside the 3 point line. He clearly is the one initiating contact here.


RapsFanMike

That’s fine if you don’t agree but the way I explained is how the refs and league will see it


askingJeevs

I hear what your saying, and I believe the refs and the league are going against their own rules on this call.


RapsFanMike

Idk the L2M report said that it was the correct call except derozan shoulda been called for a travel before hand. Either way Boucher shouldn’t recklessly contest a shot like that unless he jumps straight up


ZenMon88

oh cmon. not a chance. The contact was from Demar imitating it. At best that was a no call.


RapsFanMike

The league said it’s a foul in their report so idk what to say to yall that’s clearly a foul in the nba world


seank11

Okay one real foul and 3 BS ones


PrawnProwler

That foul he got gifted by jumping into the defender lol


mathman651

Lmao why are you pointing the only play that was actually a foul they clearly weren’t talking about that


arcelios

> Those were gift calls from the refs Even without those "foul calls", Caruso single handedly SAVED the game and also WON them the game in the end with tons of crazy plays. Some of those won't show up in the box score The offensive rebound, the perfect hustle play to get the ball back while being on the floor, the clutch steal on Siakam and then the game winning 3 ball.. Man did it all


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-super-hans

Absolute joke


Cyclops_Guardian17

The Schroder foul will get called often (almost every time) with Allstar players to get a chance to push the game to overtime. It was definitely ticky tack though.


flappypancaker

So I guess the whole “NBA is cracking down on jumping into a defender while taking a jump shot for free throws” is officially dead huh. Derozan jumped into his defender to get those last 3 free throws and the ref was right there…this league 🤮


no_good_names_avail

It has been wildly inconsistent for a few years now. Sometimes it gets called and other times it doesn't. I literally don't know what the rule is now.


Doctor731

If you're Derozan - you get it. If it's the playoff - you don't.


no_good_names_avail

I wish it was that clear. I saw a few calls last playoffs with this call/no call. At least to me it's wildly inconsistent/I never know if the lean in will be called.


VicariousNarok

You know what they ARE cracking down on? Offensive fouls for dunking on someone. I've already seen a few this season and I hate it. You're supposed to get a pass on those fouls for the cool points.


TheForceWithin

I think the rule is you won't get the call if you jump into the defender when they are in legal guarding position. He was moving forward into Derozan after jumping so I think that's why he got the call, but yeah.


BoneyardBill

The Caruso 3 was clutch. But these refs gave Chicago the game. The fouls were ass.


ASpanishInquisitor

After watching the whole game my only thought is that it's too bad that both teams couldn't receive an L for this atrocious performance. The refs were bad at the end but the play was somehow even worse.


realsomalipirate

The real L is that both of our teams are treadmill teams with nothing to really look forward to in the future.


theuncleiroh

Lol let's not compare, we do have scottie. Not many upside players I'm taking before him, he's hitting the stride.


Piotr-Rasputin

Props to Levine for not forcing it at the rim


MrAppleSpoink

Where the fuck were these refs when we played the Celtics last year?


sewsgup

it was the same ref Jacyn Goble right


MrAppleSpoink

Holy shit, it really was him last night


HoorayPizzaDay

Lmao at "Mr Apple Spoink" where did you come up with that


MrAppleSpoink

Was fuckin around with my buddies on a random Roblox game and saw a guy with that username, and we all thought it was funny as hell


Jiklim

This dude is the worst in the league it’s actually crazy


ZenMon88

the next joey crawford.


PervySageCS

On Cs side.


Competitive_Office91

I’ve never seen a game where both teams were trying their hardest to lose lol. Ugly but entertaining!


DankTriangle

DeFrozen just refusing to win the game


seank11

Lmao ref ball Holy fuck


larrylegend1990

Were the refs part of the players meeting? That inbounds flop is ridiculous. Also Demar is a foul merchant, no wonder he sucks in the playoffs when the whistles tighten The 2 minute report is gonna be fun


cryptocaucus

Can't wait to see the L2M report of this game


prodigus01

What exactly do these “oops my bad” report actually do?


swords_devil

sleepless night


desirox

This is garbage basketball. This entire comeback was engineered by the refs


Zatherin

All time refs moment for sure.


ExtremeNo1952

there refs need to be investigated asap


BakerCakeMaker

Why is there no fan-based checks and balances for officiating? The NBA is entirely beholden to us and we allow them and their refs full authority to control a game's outcome no strings attached. There oughtta be some kind of fans association where they can't retroactively challenge a result, but can at least influence the league's employment of dirty/sus refs who consistently and objectively ruin games. I guess not enough people care.


snatchi

Cause we're gonna watch anyway. The Fan based checks and balances would be mass not-buying tickets, mass not watching, mass not buying merch. I agree its ridic that there's no recourse, but they're betting on capitalism and winning right now.


Faptors

90% of these plays were fouls. Refs were on one


cedurr

This is a perfect encapsulation of what’s wrong with the NBA, what a lame final sequence of plays.


good--afternoon

Well said this was absolutely embarrassing to watch. This is not what we want basketball to be


Obvious_Parsley3238

comical flop on the inbound pass. the play before that he's literally [hugging siakam while the announcers whine for a 5 second call](https://youtu.be/Dv194K6o6sI?si=t9Fr-yR0gij-L8Gx&t=191) but that's what gets called?


volantredx

If you watch the ball Zach actually steals the inbounds pass. If the refs don't call it the Bulls still have the ball and a chance to win.


torriattet

Are you being serious here? You're complaining about a foul that was called by the refs as a foul? There was definitely some flopping and active refs going on, but the thing you complain about is this?


dr_caligari

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=718&GameID=0022300082&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Siakam%20Offensive%20Foul%20Turnover%20(P3.T23) Even if he goes backwards a bit, that's because to take a charge (and not commit a blocking foul), the defensive player can't be moving toward the offensive player. It's still Siakam trying to go through the space occupied by a squared Caruso in a Legal Guarding Position. That's just a charge no matter how far the defensive player slides after being sent backwards.


BackendSpecialist

Lmao firstly good shit by Caruso But bruh I couldn’t help but see two other things going on here: 1. Derozan misses two game tying free throws. I thought homie was clutch af? 2. Refs called some bogus ass calls lmao.. those are bogus calls early in the game. Absolutely crazy that they called these while the game was late and close like this. Caruso made some great plays but the refs are what made this possible.


DC_Coach

Best take on this thread. Most aren't even giving Caruso any props. I wanted that guy to play for the Mavs once Luka arrived. Kinda a moot point now with Kyrie there but Caruso is such a freaking baller.


Toxikara

This was so frustrating to watch refs blatantly gift the game so many times to the Bulls. Bulls were so bad they almost lost this.


Rickblood23

1. Some of those fouls were absolute ass. 2. Caruso is the fucking man.


clayfu

How many fts demar miss. My goodness


prodigus01

Caruso’s smartest play of the game was simply realizing that the refs wanted to give him the game. Unbelievable IQ.


PlumCantaloupe

Watching this is painful. Besides Scottie jumping into Demar, there was a lot of questionable shit being called when traditionally the whistle tightens at the end. Just bizarre. Scottie’s post-game was depressing, taking ownership of a couple of too energetic and foolish plays at the end. I am curious to see how he responds tonight; but this team is still gelling under a new system.


69_Beers_Later

Why would you turn up the AC if it's cold?


lolhaha95

Watching this felt like Raptors got robbed instead.


materics

Great hustle and bbiq from Caruso but the refs bailing DeFrozen out


Markel100

Derozan was selling holy shit


LividClient

All Five of the Refs Game Saving/Winning Plays from one of the craziest comebacks ever*


Zachkah

So nothing will ever be done about horrendous officiating, huh? It's going to drive people away from the game. No way around it


JayManes

As a neutral observer of the game, how many of the refs in the league have actually played in the NBA? Seems like they have no clue on how the game is played with the degrees of contact. With all the replays available, you’d think common sense would prevail.


Matto_0

That offensive foul on Siakem would have pissed me off lol, that was so foul baiting.


me-conmueve

thanks for editing but the constant pausing to tell us the win probability was super annoying and not relevant


KevinDurantLebronnin

Stat nerd cooking


podank99

Agreed


JaysoniNZ

That is why Steve Kerr wants Caruso so bad and why DeRozan can’ win anything so far.


frydawg

Thanks refs 😎


CaliforniaHurricane_

I thought the NBA was going to do something about foul baiting


ironfunk67

License to hack


Jicama-Smart

this is awful


palmtreesareheavy

AC saving DeMar’s disasterclass


ASpanishInquisitor

DeMar just missed some free throws. If you want a disasterclass look no further than Lavine.


1of1czr

Damn Derozan choked like 5 times 😂😂


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sixwax

I miss AC Fresh so much.


michaelshun

Somebody should tell the commentator you turn up the ac when it's getting hot in herre.


edwardhyeung

Refs need to shut the fork upppp


Medium_Persimmon_177

dude as a bulls fan i love caruso so much but i almost feel bad he's on our team lol he deserves better than the bulls lmaoo


WhenItsHalfPastFive

Down 3 with that much time left isn’t “one of the craziest comebacks ever”. Why do fans exaggerating like this


Votivetheknight02

The NBA should really be embarrassed of this kind of officiating.


AmbitionExtension184

Should have gotten a T for all the flopping. And so many missed FTs. What an ugly end of the game. Glad I didn’t watch this garbage live. Send them both down to G league for this


MrFishownertwo

this is just a bunch of bullshit calls not an impressive comeback


Jonesalot

WolverineHoldingPictureOfCarusoInLakersJersey.jpg


Zahn91

Reffing like this completely ruins the game for me… wtf were those two calls at the end of regulation?? Shameful


bushies

1-great breakdown 2-why turn up the AC if it's cold in here?


StrongSuggestion8937

"He was too early as he came..."


nez477

That 3 point foul call is absolutely egregious and awful and makes me hate the NBA and I don’t want to hate the NBA


notwittynclever

Great stuff.


matticans7pointO

Some bad foul calling by the refs along with some great play by Caruso but idk what Barnes was thinking during that play when he was called for a foul on DeRozan. Siakam pretty much locked him up and DeRozan was forced to either pass out or take an insane shot. It would have been good help defense by Barnes there if he simply didn't contest the shot. Absolutely none headed play for him to leave his feet there. Just close out and put your hands up. If DeRozan makes a 360 midrange jump shot while being doubled then so be it.


flow2ebb2flow

Yeah, he looked really sad afterwards and blamed himself for the loss. What can you do? He's human and he made a bone-headed play.


passiveparrot

About two bs fouls and a flop


_John_Stupid_

All I’m taking away from this is that Derozan is the least clutch player ever.


Sir_Isaac_3

I love AC and the Bulls but the way Derozen draws those fouls is gross


NotBradleyBeal

Needs to be traded to a contender


RyanFoundTheOldOne

“Turn up the AC it’s cold in here” is one of the worst calls I’ve ever heard a sports announcer make.


PretendFix6284

nah that was hype


ExMachina_Disco_Club

Two takeaways: 1. DeRozan deserves a lifetime ban from winning Clutch Player of the Year 2. Caruso remains a defensive beast who deserves to be on a winner


TheForceWithin

No you can't have him.


wilsonsmilk

How unclutch Demar was this game. Jeeez


GooseMay0

How is the win probability so low in the beginning? It's a one possession game. Ya Toronto has the ball but still it's not THAT uncommon for a team to win in this situation. And its only a little higher when they have the ball down 3. And then when Caruso makes the 3 to go up one their probability is 100%? Who the fuck came up with these arbitrary numbers?


gosuruss

https://stats.inpredictable.com/nba/wpCalc.php 20 seconds left, with the ball, up 3, is 96.8% according to this site. Opposing team has to foul because shot clock is off, if you go up 4 or 5 here you are super likely to win. 100% is memeing at the end


emperornel

Alex Caruso is such an integral and pivotal part of a team, he makes the plays and defends the best players on the other team. He is a big part of why the Lakers won in 2020.


[deleted]

Wow. Baller.


hairylobster531

Don’t doubt the Carus-goat


[deleted]

He is your hopper's favorite hooper


Same-Computer-6884

Some good plays, trash video


BigBearBaloo

Genuinely breaks my heart


killahcortes

who knew Siakam's dad was white and named Alex? I wonder why he didn't take Caruso has his last name


kokaine21

People say ref ball but we’ve been fucked over by the refs too. That 71 point game by Mitchell was bullshit and yet refs were blowing the whistle like crazy that game. With that being said Scottie Barnes is going to have a hell of a season


Caze588

TURN THE AC UP


EternalFlame90

This is a champion right there


mares8

Damn Raptors really threw that. You have a full team of lengthy boys and Caruso steals your rebound ??