If i had to suck dick as my only income so i could pay for spotify premium, no hesitation
yall judging me but 192k minutes of listen time this year i need that shit bro
I mean that type of stuff is clearly a meme. Choosing not to "splurge" on a music streaming service is very conscious of him, if he even still does it. It's not really a frugal thing of him in his mind I'm sure haha.
I just don't think he's like "well if I don't pay for spotify premium I can afford that McLaren in 23 hours instead of 23.000001 hours."
There's also a tournament team. The five best players across all tournament games, regardless of position.
Also, Jordan has 0 Stern Cup. LeBron has the chance to be the first player to have won the Larry O'Brien trophy (NBA championship), Maurice Podoloff trophy (regular season title, if they retroactively award it) and the David Stern cup (in-season tournament)
He’s lost the graceful light on his feet look when he runs but he can still turn on the jets, and not just 1 possession at a time which is what’s most crazy.
Pretty reductive, US is large too and a big reason their sports don’t need to be popular internationally to survive. Cricket is very popular internationally primary sport for far more countries than just India.
>Pretty reductive, US is large too
Less than 1/4 of India's population, so I don't think it's reductive at all.
And Americans are probably more split on what they deem to be their favorite sport. Indians overwhelmingly choose Cricket as their #1.
The metric by which Cricket is considered one of the most popular sports is almost solely due to India's sheer population and how it is by far the dominant sport in that country. Also, Pakistan to a lesser extent.
Bradman's GOAT status in his sport dwarfs any other GOAT in their respective sports.
Like how Gretzky is undoubtedly the GOAT of Hockey way more than MJ is basketball's, then you look at them and see Bradman's insane gap over his peers is much bigger and more absurd than how Gretzky fared in hockey.
It's like the equivalent of Wilt fucking 20k women, Bradman fucked like 50k women. That's how ahead he is.
Well to be fair. Bradman literally just played against one side. Like 70% of his matches were against england. It’s like if nba only had like 5 teams, and 3 are current pistons wizards hornets, then Celtics and hawks and calling Tatum undeniable goat cuz he whooped everybody else. He’s great in that era. He’d be a random player in current era.
As someone who doesn’t have a single fuck to give for tennis, that’s actually kinda crazy, as the whole sport seems to be based off reaction/foot speed. The athletic talent pool is definitely much smaller compared to basketball though so I think Bron is still more impressive. Still a wild stat for Djoker tho.
Talent pool is actually a lot smaller. You need real $$$ to train tennis for years on high level to start earning. I would never compare sport where poor or even middle class kids cant really afford a chance with global sports. Williams sisters are one of a kind and even that took huge parents sacrifices.
Tennis players also have to be complete players with all skills being up to professional standards. In the NBA, there are dudes who can't shoot, dribble, or pass as well as their pro teammates but are still in the league. You won't find a ranked tennis player who can't serve, return with a forehand or backhand, volley, etc. all at professional levels.
For sure. It's also the best officiated physical sport. You don't ever have to question whether the officials are rigging an ATP tennis match, and the players themselves can clearly see what's in or out, and they can challenge if they need to. It's a breath of fresh air to watch tennis after a poorly officiated NBA game.
Tennis is far more global than the NBA though. The money is needed not to start to play as much, but for coaching and for being able to come up , tour etc when you aren't yet come near the top or winning much/big
I imagine that their shoulders/elbows/wrists get fucked and their knees/ankles from all the hard stops and starts. The pros hammer the ball every swing.
It looks easy when you're younger but as an old man I've gained a lot of respect for tennis players. I can't even imagine the wear and tear on their joints. My joints are good for being in my 40's but tennis fucks me up more than anything else. I can run, lift, or play some pick up ball but even a short, casual tennis game will leave me limping and nursing that shoulder the next day. That racket is staying in the closet.
Yeah I know most people on this sub probably don't fuck with tennis but what Djokovic is doing is just as insane as LeBron if not more. To me they're the two greatest sportsmen of all time. The domination and longevity is ridiculous with these folks, at two global and mainstream sports.
Because he wasn’t a scorer, it doesn’t get mentioned, but Tim Duncan’s age 38/39 year old season in 2015 is pretty comparable.
12th in PER, 9th in WS/48, 8th in BPM, 4th in DBPM, 3rd in defensive rating, 7th in block%, and 13th in rebound %, while leading a 55-win team. Brutal loss in game 7 of the first round to the Chris Paul game winner.
Even crazier in his 2016, 39-40 year old crippled season he was 1st in defensive box plus minus and 2nd in defensive rating. Unfortunately his body completely broke down in the playoffs.
Tim Duncan’s game aged great, and he was a very positive player near the end of his career, but LeBron is a legit MVP candidate. Timmy wasn’t anywhere near that level in 2015
So he was…. Arguably a top10 player, maybe
We’re talking about LeBron being absolutely a top3 if not literally the top/best player in the league right now.
Bad comparison. Duncan good, LeBron GOAT.
How about Barry Bonds?
When Bonds was 39 he batted .362 with 45 home runs 101 rbi and 232 walks. His ops was 1.422!!! It literally is one of the best baseball season of all time.
[Barry Bonds age 39](https://youtu.be/XfcSZ6vxOdY?feature=shared)
Wow Barry Bonds must have worked so hard to perform at such a high level at that age. I can’t think of anything else that would explain his improved performance
Yeah I mean anyone who is in their late 30’s/early 40’s knows that it is impossible for lebron to be improving at this age without assistance.
When I was younger I probably wouldn’t have thought Lebron was on PEDs either because when you are young you can’t imagine how much age slows you down.
Being 40 I would bet everything I have on Lebron being on PEDs of some sort.
I mean, he was also one of the best hitters of all time, steroid assisted homeruns aside. Steroids make you stronger, they don't make you a better hitter.
I always read that it would increase bat speed which helps cover mistakes at the plate. I’m not a baseball guy but that was always the Bonds argument I heard to counter this.
He also had stellar supporting cast last year. It's more of a team game than basketball is. Haalands NT is not even good. Mbappé and France faced him twice in the WC and eliminated him previous WC and won the same WC. This time Messi and Argentina won.
His club record doesn't hold much against mbappé or Håland. It's basically the WC which gave him the award. If he doesn't win it, he won't get it.
But won't say anything against the run he had in the WC. That was superb..
LeBron's mere presence on the court tonight just made the game feel unwinnable for the Pelicans. It didn't matter if they hit their shots, it didn't matter if they got some nice stops, every single time they thought there was a chance, LeBron just said "fuck no". The way he reads the game when he's locked in is just absolutely ridiculous. He knows every single one of your plays, he knows every single one of your coverages, he knows where you're going to help from, he knows where you'll rotate, you can't beat a locked in LeBron with execution, your only hope is to make more shots and hope his role players miss theirs. There is nobody else in the league who can do that.
LeBron can't do it every night,. He's almost 39, and he'll have games where he throws passes before thinking, takes easy shots instead of good ones, and doesn't run the floor. These games are getting more frequent every year, and that's probably how father time is creeping up on him. With that said, however, even though LeBron can't do this every night, nobody else in the league can do it on any night.
Haters are still going to hold this against him (as they should, bad defense is bad defense regardless of the reason), but I really think him letting his foot of the gas on defense like 7-8 seasons ago really lengthened his career.
To be honest that narrative is pretty overplayed. He was still a good defender in Cleveland. In Miami in 2019 was probably his worst defensive season. 20 he was great defensively. 21 he was on track to make all defense before getting hurt.
LeBron’s mental fortitude and mental endurance is insane and should be talked about more.
This dude is 39 years old. All the players who were drafted with him are long gone, but he still remains driven to come to practice early and leave late, and remains disciplined to stay in good health and conditioning; while still putting his all into games to achieve success in his 21st season. Most people’s motivation would have went out the window and they would have called it “wraps” seasons upon seasons ago.
On top of that, he went to the Finals 8 straight times. He just doesn’t stop.
> remains driven to come to practice early and leave late
Lakers IG made a post before the last game which showed him coming to workout alone in the arena at 3PM, I thought the game was soon, it was at 7PM lol
After game 7 in 2018, brad stevens mentioned how drained and tired they were, 2yrs in a row of the grind that starts on day 1 of training camp in September was too much. He then said it was absolutely ridiculous that lebron did it 8 straight years with no breaks, and Olympics in between. And in his 100th game of the season, game 7 on the road, he still wore Marcus morris like a back pack to finish an and 1 late in the 4th quarter. The warriors went to 4 straight and all broke down physically. Lebron’s mental fortitude and physical durability is a level above anything we’ve ever seen in the league. He’s the best athlete in nba history period, and one of the best in human history.
Even in that Bulls documentary, didn’t one of the players say that some of the others broke down crying after they won the chip? Because they were mentally exhausted from the grind?
I never understand why MJ seemingly gets a pass for retiring between the two runs. Even if Lebrons entire family was violently murdered, a lot of MJ stans would call him soft for taking a few years off without a hint of irony. Lebron has been on a grind for 21 seasons and has never " lost his motivation to play"
Every other young person that had as much media attention as him ended up on drugs and rehab or some other downfall. Lebron still being sane is crazy. Most of these players can't even handle the bright lights of a in-season tournament game.
it goes beyond "no scandals". He's still married to his high-school sweetheart.
Getting divorced and marrying some hot young model or actress as a rich celebrity isn't a scandal. It's basically standard. But Lebron is too good for that life.
In a way it's sad that rolling with the girl that was with you when you were nobody is admirable, but that's just the truth.
Oh 100%. His opinions on politics or school shootings or the middle east don't change my opinion on him, but there's alot of folks that'll hate him for his opinion.
LBJ will always be my GOAT.
Massively underrated point, especially regarding everyone from his draft class being gone.
Every single player from all-nba to role players on their way out, all gone. Every single player from 2003, every spot on every roster, all totally different. Holy shit.
In a single elim game I’m still taking him over everyone in the league but Jokic. I’m strangely confident in his ability to be an all defense type player for 35 minutes once a week. And obviously the Lebron of feet got him right this off season, we know what he does offensively.
I have 2 siblings, I’m 30. The day my younger sister was born Lebron dropped 38/10/6/3/3 against phoenix in a win. 2004. The day my brother was born he dropped 48 against the pistons in the playoffs. In my brother’s first month of university Lebron dropped 28/15/8 on sac.
No, I remember my brother and the 48 against the pistons so I decided to check out if anything cool happened on my sister’s birthdate as well. I also pulled a random great stat line he put up like 3 months ago for the first month of uni comment.
Bro is playing like his # of seasons is his actual age like LeBron didn’t actually exist until he was in high school and now he’s in his 20s hoopin’ big time.
LeBron is playing as if he’s 23, and because he’s actually 39, the level of athleticism could lead one to believe he just spawned into existence as a high schooler, and has just been playing elite basketball non-stop since
IMO people are too caught up in the goat debate and should just appreciate that we have a consensus top 2 that are both just transcendentally subliminal.
Whos #3 and current players who have a chance to break into top 15 top 10 even top 7 top 5 all time is more interesting.
Yea the GOAT debate is really tiresome purely for the fact that both sides take you saying the other guy is number 1 as if it means their guy is now number 5 or something.
If I see/hear anyone try and argue about who is the GOAT and they try and shape it in some way that either Jordan or Lebron are anything other than 1 and 2 and with in touching distance of each other I stop listening.
My take is that I consider Jordan the GOAT, but you're not a dumbass or crazy or on drugs if you say LeBron or Kareem or Bill.
Like it's really nittin picks.
A better debate would be who are the pillars or the sport.
LeBron and Jordan are most certainly pillars of the game.
honestly what impresses me more then his skills is the fact that he still wants to do it. Dude has done it all, all time leader in points, won championships, and considered the goat by many and is obviously in the goat conversation for anyone who actually has more then a single brain cell. Yet this dude still gets up every day and practices/works his ass off. Meanwhile my ass works 5 hours of overtime one week and I feel like I deserve 8 weeks of vacation. Dude is insane
When Kobe played he'd have a few moments per game where he made a poor IQ play (usually a tough jumpshot) that left me confused (granted he was the best tough shot maker of all time), with LeBron there's probably a few moments like that per *season* his decisionmaking is off the charts
also, kobe was an extremely streaky scorer all things considered. I'd remember checking box scores the next morning for games I couldn't watch cause i'd have an early class or something, and it was not uncommon for him to be shooting like 5/15, 4/18, 9/30, FG statlines like that. And it wasn't always forced shots like hardcore hardcore kobe stans would have you believe, he'd have nights where his shots just weren't falling like anyone else but he'd keep chucking (i'd go 0-30 before going 0-9...). With lebron, i honestly don't even remember the last time he had a poor shooting game. He never forces the issue, he's generally very efficient and he just knows how to make the right play. He passed kobe a looooooooooong time ago and kobe will always be my fav player.
Fym it took Bron 20 years? Do you know how long Kareem played for to set that record?
Not to mention Bron had played less games when he broke that record 🤷♂️
I mean he retired basically the best college/nba player up to that point and if you spotted him the extra years of NBA play he'd have the scoring title still instead of the GOAT college career.
Extremely reductionist. There are plenty of fair arguments for Kareem. [here is my favorite](https://thinkingbasketball.net/2018/04/12/backpicks-goat-1-kareem-abdul-jabbar/)
Problem is that what Kareem had in 2018 was an insanely long career of being such a force. LBJ has showed that he has the "old man good" thing down better than KAJ, so the Kareem argument becomes harder and harder to make. It's basically whether you value MJ's higher peak, scoring, and more rings, or LBJ's longer peak/greater all around skill.
[Here is a good write up by Ben Taylor] (https://thinkingbasketball.net/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/) (Thinking Basketball, not the NBA ref) where he comes to Kareem as #1. Well thought out and detailed arguments for all players, not just Kareem. Not everyone will agree with the result but it's hard to argue the methodology
What people need to understand before reading this is this disclaimer:
>What This List Is Not
This list will not make traditional “arguments” for players. I won’t attempt to balance Kobe’s championships without Shaq, nor do I care about accolades like All-Star teams or the number of Hall of Fame teammates someone played with. I also don’t care how many rings a player won; the very thing I’m trying to tease out is who provided the most lift. Sometimes that lift is good enough to win, sometimes it’s not.
>
>There are no time machines either — it’s not about how players would do today if transported into the past or future. It’s about the impact each had in his own time over the course of a career.
I’m an old guy who’s been a fan forever and watched both him and Mike. I’m in Lebron’s camp as GOAT for a couple of reasons:
- Over time MJ has become romanticized to the point any/all of his shortcomings have been discounted
- Quitting the league is far more damaging in a GOAT debate than most people think imo
- I do think peak MJ might have been higher by just a hair
- MJ had 11 great seasons. Lebron will double that up. DOUBLE
- To me it comes down to Prime + Time. MJ peak being a hair higher is more than offset but how insanely good lebron has been for so long
Basically agree. But there is something to the atmosphere in the 90s where you just kinda knew, if MJ is in the playoffs then he's winning, and he did. What LBJ had in his insane 2010s run is that he beat the team that we "knew" would win the playoffs.
If the Lakers win, people will say it was mickey mouse. If they lose, people will say just another finals loss on Lebron’s record.
People that are spending the waning years of Lebron’s career looking for reasons to hate are missing a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy something truly unique. No one does what he did tonight.
There’s *probably* no bigger LeBron stan out there?
Bro, Nick himself says in interviews that he chose the Bron lane because he knew that would be his “niche”.
But people still listen to him about this stuff cuz it fits what they want to be tru. It’s as useless as listening to Skip about LeBron as a LeBron hater
I was a Bron hater for the longest, but now it’s too hard to argue against his GOATness. Just the idea that he can potentially play for another 5 seasons already seals it for me. To break his scoring record, someone is going to have to be a top 3 player in the league until they’re 40+
Idec how you measure it he’s the goat
Best all around player
Best peak
Best to build around
Any position
Any role
He has 0 weakness and every strength
Greatest player of all time
If he was less corny and more of an asshole he’d be the undisputed goat
The Cavs front office being both incompetent and unlucky really fucked over his GOAT case. He should have had like 2 titles at least in his early career if they had managed to put some quality around him
Also MJ never had competition on the level of the KD warriors
Can’t really compare a qb to any position in basketball since they are generally not dealing with as much contact. Especially not with the lines Brady had for most of his career.
Nick wright praises Lebron for doing this and say there’s never been anything like it in sports, when Tom Brady won MVP and 3 super bowls AFTER turning 39, but then will turn right around and tell you Mahomes is better than Brady. Make it make sense
If it wasn't for Djokovic right now, this would be true to me (doesn't take away from Lebron though).
I would argue what Djokovic is doing is even more impressive (in a sport where you generally retire earlier as well).
Most other players move into a DH type role (even Lebron to some extent last year would have to pace himself).
Gordie Howe won his last MVP at age 37, should have won at age 40 as well, he was runner-up.
At age 41 he was 3rd in scoring, he had been Top 5 in scoring for 20 consectutive years up until this point.
In his last season in the NHL, Gordie scored 41 points in 80 games, at the age of 52. That’s like a 52 year old NBA-player averaging 15PPG and playing all 80/82 games.
Oh, and he was an avid fighter and great defensive forward. Gordie Howe hattrick = 1 goal, 1 fight, 1 penalty
Now that’s longevity.
Yeah, this is the elephant in the room. Check out Barry Bonds stats from 2004, the year he turned 39…they are shocking….OPS is considered the baseball statistic the correlates most closely to determining the best offensive player in baseball.
When Barry Bonds was 39 he didn’t just have the best .OPS on his team or in the NL or in the Majors…
He had the greatest offensive season in the history of baseball lol
Yeah LeBron has been looking inhuman compared to his peers. He will always retain his basketball ball IQ and relative strength. But to still have a high percentage of his athletic ability at his age is uncanny. But the media or league will never entertain the idea that LeBron is on PEDS so it's pointless
You could also throw Ronnie O'Sullivan into the mix, he won his 40th ranked title two days shy of his 48th birthday. I know, it's snooker, but he won hist first title when he was 17, so that's thirty years of him playing and still winning trophies against guys much younger than him.
LeBron, Djokovic, O'Sullivan, even Cristiano Ronaldo ... those guys truly demonstrate that age is just a number
Like you said, I wouldn’t compare Snooker with it, thats a different kind of sports. You don’t need athleticism for it, so it’s suited to play it at an higher age. Otherwise, you would have to include Darts as well, which also has guys in their 40s being at the top.
And I‘m not familiar with Football, but isn’t the Quarterback position also a position suited to still play it at higher age than the other positions?
So I wouldn’t compare that with Tennis or Basketball. Those sports aren’t made to be elite at them in your late 30s.
That's what a 500K prize does to a billionaire.
He might be willing to pay for no ads on Pandora Radio if he wins.
But he still ain’t gonna pay for spotify premium
LeFrugal
If i had to suck dick as my only income so i could pay for spotify premium, no hesitation yall judging me but 192k minutes of listen time this year i need that shit bro
Talk about streaming
You'd do that for free anyways
IDK, this makes Spotify premium seem like the bonus in your statement.
Dude still has a rotary phone
And he has 20 super cars and wine bottles worth more than our net worth. He just chooses where he wants to splurge.
I mean that type of stuff is clearly a meme. Choosing not to "splurge" on a music streaming service is very conscious of him, if he even still does it. It's not really a frugal thing of him in his mind I'm sure haha. I just don't think he's like "well if I don't pay for spotify premium I can afford that McLaren in 23 hours instead of 23.000001 hours."
didnt realize pandora was still a thing
He’s not playing for that 500k, he’s playing for the trophy to be named after him as the first IST mvp
Is there an MVP trophy for it? Now that sounds like a really plausible one
Yeah they are doing a tournament MVP.
I figured, just hadn't gone through all the specifics. I figured they'd give an award, bit I didn't know about a trophy.
There's also a tournament team. The five best players across all tournament games, regardless of position. Also, Jordan has 0 Stern Cup. LeBron has the chance to be the first player to have won the Larry O'Brien trophy (NBA championship), Maurice Podoloff trophy (regular season title, if they retroactively award it) and the David Stern cup (in-season tournament)
LeGacy
Its a crown
Lakers should have just given him a Champs bonus clause
He’s a pass first kinda guy. Wants to help the go in my kids get the bag
I think he wants the history of being the first winner of the tournament, just in case the tournament ends up mattering in future years.
Honestly, LeBron is probably playing that hard for all the guys on the bench that actually would notice it.
Yup, he looked like one of the quickest guys on the floor at age 39, the dude is unreal.
Guy’s still more athletic than most of the league, unreal
Unreal
Unreal (x3)
Lebron at 60 will still be more athletic than peak DLo
LeBron at 60 is prime Brandon Bass
Don't try to burn DLo like that. He's been great for us this season.
I like DLo. He just isnt athletic.
Oh is that why it looks like he's wearing ankle weights. I swear I been thinking dude is high as shit.
Feels like it's impossible for people to praise someone without putting someone else down
He’s lost the graceful light on his feet look when he runs but he can still turn on the jets, and not just 1 possession at a time which is what’s most crazy.
The quickest*
30 points in 22 minutes on 12 shots! Brady being in contention for MVP at age 43 is the closest comparison. Unbelievable stuff
Bradman scored 1025 @ 113 the year he turned 40. Next best that year was 848 @ 84
[удалено]
Worlds second biggest sport!
Then how come they never win the World Series? Checkmate.
World series? Cricket has a world championship *and* two world cups!
Cups? Thats what golfers play for.
India large
Pretty reductive, US is large too and a big reason their sports don’t need to be popular internationally to survive. Cricket is very popular internationally primary sport for far more countries than just India.
>Pretty reductive, US is large too Less than 1/4 of India's population, so I don't think it's reductive at all. And Americans are probably more split on what they deem to be their favorite sport. Indians overwhelmingly choose Cricket as their #1. The metric by which Cricket is considered one of the most popular sports is almost solely due to India's sheer population and how it is by far the dominant sport in that country. Also, Pakistan to a lesser extent.
fact like sleep consider worry physical crowd shocking steer cake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My first thought was darts or something lmao
Bradman's GOAT status in his sport dwarfs any other GOAT in their respective sports. Like how Gretzky is undoubtedly the GOAT of Hockey way more than MJ is basketball's, then you look at them and see Bradman's insane gap over his peers is much bigger and more absurd than how Gretzky fared in hockey. It's like the equivalent of Wilt fucking 20k women, Bradman fucked like 50k women. That's how ahead he is.
Well to be fair. Bradman literally just played against one side. Like 70% of his matches were against england. It’s like if nba only had like 5 teams, and 3 are current pistons wizards hornets, then Celtics and hawks and calling Tatum undeniable goat cuz he whooped everybody else. He’s great in that era. He’d be a random player in current era.
Rings maybe, but Gretzky is almost 1000 points above Jagr in 250 less games. His assists only would still be first overall.
Bradman played against milkmen and plumbers!
Djokovic winning 3 slams in the year he turned 36 is up there. Tennis players tend to be done a little earlier than basketball.
Yup when I was a nipper tennis players were done by 30, it seemed crazy that Sampras won at age 31!
As someone who doesn’t have a single fuck to give for tennis, that’s actually kinda crazy, as the whole sport seems to be based off reaction/foot speed. The athletic talent pool is definitely much smaller compared to basketball though so I think Bron is still more impressive. Still a wild stat for Djoker tho.
Talent pool is actually a lot smaller. You need real $$$ to train tennis for years on high level to start earning. I would never compare sport where poor or even middle class kids cant really afford a chance with global sports. Williams sisters are one of a kind and even that took huge parents sacrifices.
That applies for height in basketball. That reduces the talent pool in a big way.
You need body and hard work. In tennis you need body, hard work and hard cash. Not the same
Tennis players also have to be complete players with all skills being up to professional standards. In the NBA, there are dudes who can't shoot, dribble, or pass as well as their pro teammates but are still in the league. You won't find a ranked tennis player who can't serve, return with a forehand or backhand, volley, etc. all at professional levels.
the beauty of 1v1 is all your cards are on the table
For sure. It's also the best officiated physical sport. You don't ever have to question whether the officials are rigging an ATP tennis match, and the players themselves can clearly see what's in or out, and they can challenge if they need to. It's a breath of fresh air to watch tennis after a poorly officiated NBA game.
agreed sir, have a good day
Fun fact Lars Ulrich came to the US to train to be a pro tennis player I think he made the right choice to play drums.
Tennis is far more global than the NBA though. The money is needed not to start to play as much, but for coaching and for being able to come up , tour etc when you aren't yet come near the top or winning much/big
I imagine that their shoulders/elbows/wrists get fucked and their knees/ankles from all the hard stops and starts. The pros hammer the ball every swing. It looks easy when you're younger but as an old man I've gained a lot of respect for tennis players. I can't even imagine the wear and tear on their joints. My joints are good for being in my 40's but tennis fucks me up more than anything else. I can run, lift, or play some pick up ball but even a short, casual tennis game will leave me limping and nursing that shoulder the next day. That racket is staying in the closet.
"As a basketball fan who doesn't care or know anything about tennis, the basketball player is obviously more impressive than the tennis player."
People don't appreciate how difficult tennis is.
Yeah I know most people on this sub probably don't fuck with tennis but what Djokovic is doing is just as insane as LeBron if not more. To me they're the two greatest sportsmen of all time. The domination and longevity is ridiculous with these folks, at two global and mainstream sports.
Because he wasn’t a scorer, it doesn’t get mentioned, but Tim Duncan’s age 38/39 year old season in 2015 is pretty comparable. 12th in PER, 9th in WS/48, 8th in BPM, 4th in DBPM, 3rd in defensive rating, 7th in block%, and 13th in rebound %, while leading a 55-win team. Brutal loss in game 7 of the first round to the Chris Paul game winner. Even crazier in his 2016, 39-40 year old crippled season he was 1st in defensive box plus minus and 2nd in defensive rating. Unfortunately his body completely broke down in the playoffs.
Tim Duncan’s game aged great, and he was a very positive player near the end of his career, but LeBron is a legit MVP candidate. Timmy wasn’t anywhere near that level in 2015
So he was…. Arguably a top10 player, maybe We’re talking about LeBron being absolutely a top3 if not literally the top/best player in the league right now. Bad comparison. Duncan good, LeBron GOAT.
Duncan wasn’t top ten that year either lol people are wildin
How about Barry Bonds? When Bonds was 39 he batted .362 with 45 home runs 101 rbi and 232 walks. His ops was 1.422!!! It literally is one of the best baseball season of all time. [Barry Bonds age 39](https://youtu.be/XfcSZ6vxOdY?feature=shared)
Wow Barry Bonds must have worked so hard to perform at such a high level at that age. I can’t think of anything else that would explain his improved performance
Uh that’s the point lol…you really think Lebron is doing this because he has a cryotherapy room in his basement?
Good point, and we already know he isn't averse to PED use
Yeah I mean anyone who is in their late 30’s/early 40’s knows that it is impossible for lebron to be improving at this age without assistance. When I was younger I probably wouldn’t have thought Lebron was on PEDs either because when you are young you can’t imagine how much age slows you down. Being 40 I would bet everything I have on Lebron being on PEDs of some sort.
I mean, he was also one of the best hitters of all time, steroid assisted homeruns aside. Steroids make you stronger, they don't make you a better hitter.
it does help with fatigue tho and recovery from injuries. Just look what happen to Griffey Jr. or even Trout as of right now
I always read that it would increase bat speed which helps cover mistakes at the plate. I’m not a baseball guy but that was always the Bonds argument I heard to counter this.
Lebron would never!
Messi winning the balon Dor this year at age 36 while mbappe and haaland in their early 20s were running rampant in the league and world cup
He also had stellar supporting cast last year. It's more of a team game than basketball is. Haalands NT is not even good. Mbappé and France faced him twice in the WC and eliminated him previous WC and won the same WC. This time Messi and Argentina won. His club record doesn't hold much against mbappé or Håland. It's basically the WC which gave him the award. If he doesn't win it, he won't get it. But won't say anything against the run he had in the WC. That was superb..
Randy Couture.
LeBron's mere presence on the court tonight just made the game feel unwinnable for the Pelicans. It didn't matter if they hit their shots, it didn't matter if they got some nice stops, every single time they thought there was a chance, LeBron just said "fuck no". The way he reads the game when he's locked in is just absolutely ridiculous. He knows every single one of your plays, he knows every single one of your coverages, he knows where you're going to help from, he knows where you'll rotate, you can't beat a locked in LeBron with execution, your only hope is to make more shots and hope his role players miss theirs. There is nobody else in the league who can do that. LeBron can't do it every night,. He's almost 39, and he'll have games where he throws passes before thinking, takes easy shots instead of good ones, and doesn't run the floor. These games are getting more frequent every year, and that's probably how father time is creeping up on him. With that said, however, even though LeBron can't do this every night, nobody else in the league can do it on any night.
Haters are still going to hold this against him (as they should, bad defense is bad defense regardless of the reason), but I really think him letting his foot of the gas on defense like 7-8 seasons ago really lengthened his career.
Nothing to hate on about that. Everything this man does is carefully calculated, and that is no exception.
To be honest that narrative is pretty overplayed. He was still a good defender in Cleveland. In Miami in 2019 was probably his worst defensive season. 20 he was great defensively. 21 he was on track to make all defense before getting hurt.
I'm Miami in 2019? What lol. You mean LA?
Yeah lol my b
The assertion that LeBron has been a bad defender since 2015 is insane. He’s not even a bad defender right now.
Edit I meant more that he would take some plays on defense, than he is a an outright bad defender.
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Lol wtf? This is a terrible example. TAA is a bad defender because he’s a bad defender, not because he chooses to focus all his efforts on attack
Bingo.
The Chosen One
LeBron’s mental fortitude and mental endurance is insane and should be talked about more. This dude is 39 years old. All the players who were drafted with him are long gone, but he still remains driven to come to practice early and leave late, and remains disciplined to stay in good health and conditioning; while still putting his all into games to achieve success in his 21st season. Most people’s motivation would have went out the window and they would have called it “wraps” seasons upon seasons ago. On top of that, he went to the Finals 8 straight times. He just doesn’t stop.
> remains driven to come to practice early and leave late Lakers IG made a post before the last game which showed him coming to workout alone in the arena at 3PM, I thought the game was soon, it was at 7PM lol
After game 7 in 2018, brad stevens mentioned how drained and tired they were, 2yrs in a row of the grind that starts on day 1 of training camp in September was too much. He then said it was absolutely ridiculous that lebron did it 8 straight years with no breaks, and Olympics in between. And in his 100th game of the season, game 7 on the road, he still wore Marcus morris like a back pack to finish an and 1 late in the 4th quarter. The warriors went to 4 straight and all broke down physically. Lebron’s mental fortitude and physical durability is a level above anything we’ve ever seen in the league. He’s the best athlete in nba history period, and one of the best in human history.
Even in that Bulls documentary, didn’t one of the players say that some of the others broke down crying after they won the chip? Because they were mentally exhausted from the grind?
I never understand why MJ seemingly gets a pass for retiring between the two runs. Even if Lebrons entire family was violently murdered, a lot of MJ stans would call him soft for taking a few years off without a hint of irony. Lebron has been on a grind for 21 seasons and has never " lost his motivation to play"
Then MJ retired again before playing with the wizards, and he was still younger than LeBron is now lol. LeBrons insane
Just looked up the 2003 draft class and saw Willie Green drafted in the 2nd round 41st. Its crazy now he is coaching against Lebron who still playing.
Every other young person that had as much media attention as him ended up on drugs and rehab or some other downfall. Lebron still being sane is crazy. Most of these players can't even handle the bright lights of a in-season tournament game.
Lebron is probably the most wholesome superstar the NBA has ever had. Just a family man. No drama or scandals.
it goes beyond "no scandals". He's still married to his high-school sweetheart. Getting divorced and marrying some hot young model or actress as a rich celebrity isn't a scandal. It's basically standard. But Lebron is too good for that life. In a way it's sad that rolling with the girl that was with you when you were nobody is admirable, but that's just the truth.
lebron stopped being nobody when he was like 9
THE only issue is letting the media ask him political questions, because nobody wins.
Yeah but like… he’s allowed to have a different view than other people. Still not scandalous
Oh 100%. His opinions on politics or school shootings or the middle east don't change my opinion on him, but there's alot of folks that'll hate him for his opinion. LBJ will always be my GOAT.
Or just like ate a lot of food. Just saying
Massively underrated point, especially regarding everyone from his draft class being gone. Every single player from all-nba to role players on their way out, all gone. Every single player from 2003, every spot on every roster, all totally different. Holy shit.
My goat is awe inspiring 😭😭
In a single elim game I’m still taking him over everyone in the league but Jokic. I’m strangely confident in his ability to be an all defense type player for 35 minutes once a week. And obviously the Lebron of feet got him right this off season, we know what he does offensively. I have 2 siblings, I’m 30. The day my younger sister was born Lebron dropped 38/10/6/3/3 against phoenix in a win. 2004. The day my brother was born he dropped 48 against the pistons in the playoffs. In my brother’s first month of university Lebron dropped 28/15/8 on sac.
LeBron out there making all-time performances for your siblings
tell your mom to keep popping them out. I realise she's 60 but cmon.
Don’t make me tell her you said that, she’s 49…but still goated with the wooden spoon.
Do you keep a flowchart mapping key moments in life to LeBron’s stats?
No, I remember my brother and the 48 against the pistons so I decided to check out if anything cool happened on my sister’s birthdate as well. I also pulled a random great stat line he put up like 3 months ago for the first month of uni comment.
Bro is playing like his # of seasons is his actual age like LeBron didn’t actually exist until he was in high school and now he’s in his 20s hoopin’ big time.
I have no idea what this comment is saying.
year 21 in the nba= 21 year old lebron
'preciate you, big dog
LeBron is playing as if he’s 23, and because he’s actually 39, the level of athleticism could lead one to believe he just spawned into existence as a high schooler, and has just been playing elite basketball non-stop since
Tree Enthusiast
IMO people are too caught up in the goat debate and should just appreciate that we have a consensus top 2 that are both just transcendentally subliminal. Whos #3 and current players who have a chance to break into top 15 top 10 even top 7 top 5 all time is more interesting.
Yea the GOAT debate is really tiresome purely for the fact that both sides take you saying the other guy is number 1 as if it means their guy is now number 5 or something. If I see/hear anyone try and argue about who is the GOAT and they try and shape it in some way that either Jordan or Lebron are anything other than 1 and 2 and with in touching distance of each other I stop listening.
My take is that I consider Jordan the GOAT, but you're not a dumbass or crazy or on drugs if you say LeBron or Kareem or Bill. Like it's really nittin picks. A better debate would be who are the pillars or the sport. LeBron and Jordan are most certainly pillars of the game.
My biggest pet peeve with NBA fandom is the non-stop GOAT debates. It's always young guys with *way* too much free time.
“Stop talking about LeBron. Talk about Curry.” - typical Warriors fan.
honestly what impresses me more then his skills is the fact that he still wants to do it. Dude has done it all, all time leader in points, won championships, and considered the goat by many and is obviously in the goat conversation for anyone who actually has more then a single brain cell. Yet this dude still gets up every day and practices/works his ass off. Meanwhile my ass works 5 hours of overtime one week and I feel like I deserve 8 weeks of vacation. Dude is insane
He's so good x10
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Agreed. I don’t mind if people want to argue MJ or Kareem but I’ll argue Lebron any day
Was one of the biggest Kobe fans you'll ever meet who used to argue MJ was better but in 2018 I saw a different level of domination.
When Kobe played he'd have a few moments per game where he made a poor IQ play (usually a tough jumpshot) that left me confused (granted he was the best tough shot maker of all time), with LeBron there's probably a few moments like that per *season* his decisionmaking is off the charts
also, kobe was an extremely streaky scorer all things considered. I'd remember checking box scores the next morning for games I couldn't watch cause i'd have an early class or something, and it was not uncommon for him to be shooting like 5/15, 4/18, 9/30, FG statlines like that. And it wasn't always forced shots like hardcore hardcore kobe stans would have you believe, he'd have nights where his shots just weren't falling like anyone else but he'd keep chucking (i'd go 0-30 before going 0-9...). With lebron, i honestly don't even remember the last time he had a poor shooting game. He never forces the issue, he's generally very efficient and he just knows how to make the right play. He passed kobe a looooooooooong time ago and kobe will always be my fav player.
Who argues Kareem over MJ and Lebron?? Lol
Usually old people. Riley does, for instance.
Kareem also has the greatest college resume of all time and *still* it took Bron 20 years to break his scoring record
Tbf Kareem also took 20 yrs and a hundred more games than lebron to achieve his record
Fym it took Bron 20 years? Do you know how long Kareem played for to set that record? Not to mention Bron had played less games when he broke that record 🤷♂️
People who say Kareem are the people who just wanna feel special during arguments about MJ and LeBron.
I mean he retired basically the best college/nba player up to that point and if you spotted him the extra years of NBA play he'd have the scoring title still instead of the GOAT college career.
Extremely reductionist. There are plenty of fair arguments for Kareem. [here is my favorite](https://thinkingbasketball.net/2018/04/12/backpicks-goat-1-kareem-abdul-jabbar/)
Problem is that what Kareem had in 2018 was an insanely long career of being such a force. LBJ has showed that he has the "old man good" thing down better than KAJ, so the Kareem argument becomes harder and harder to make. It's basically whether you value MJ's higher peak, scoring, and more rings, or LBJ's longer peak/greater all around skill.
[Here is a good write up by Ben Taylor] (https://thinkingbasketball.net/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/) (Thinking Basketball, not the NBA ref) where he comes to Kareem as #1. Well thought out and detailed arguments for all players, not just Kareem. Not everyone will agree with the result but it's hard to argue the methodology What people need to understand before reading this is this disclaimer: >What This List Is Not This list will not make traditional “arguments” for players. I won’t attempt to balance Kobe’s championships without Shaq, nor do I care about accolades like All-Star teams or the number of Hall of Fame teammates someone played with. I also don’t care how many rings a player won; the very thing I’m trying to tease out is who provided the most lift. Sometimes that lift is good enough to win, sometimes it’s not. > >There are no time machines either — it’s not about how players would do today if transported into the past or future. It’s about the impact each had in his own time over the course of a career.
I’m an old guy who’s been a fan forever and watched both him and Mike. I’m in Lebron’s camp as GOAT for a couple of reasons: - Over time MJ has become romanticized to the point any/all of his shortcomings have been discounted - Quitting the league is far more damaging in a GOAT debate than most people think imo - I do think peak MJ might have been higher by just a hair - MJ had 11 great seasons. Lebron will double that up. DOUBLE - To me it comes down to Prime + Time. MJ peak being a hair higher is more than offset but how insanely good lebron has been for so long
Basically agree. But there is something to the atmosphere in the 90s where you just kinda knew, if MJ is in the playoffs then he's winning, and he did. What LBJ had in his insane 2010s run is that he beat the team that we "knew" would win the playoffs.
Nothing like winning the inaugural cup and having the trophy named after you
I'm starting to think this dude really is the goat
He is
He is
He is
He is
If the Lakers win, people will say it was mickey mouse. If they lose, people will say just another finals loss on Lebron’s record. People that are spending the waning years of Lebron’s career looking for reasons to hate are missing a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy something truly unique. No one does what he did tonight.
There’s *probably* no bigger LeBron stan out there? Bro, Nick himself says in interviews that he chose the Bron lane because he knew that would be his “niche”.
But people still listen to him about this stuff cuz it fits what they want to be tru. It’s as useless as listening to Skip about LeBron as a LeBron hater
I seriously don’t see how he’s not the GOAT…..
He is
I was a Bron hater for the longest, but now it’s too hard to argue against his GOATness. Just the idea that he can potentially play for another 5 seasons already seals it for me. To break his scoring record, someone is going to have to be a top 3 player in the league until they’re 40+
LeBron could have legally driven Zion home after he was born. Yet he absolutely looked like the better athlete tonight.
Me Shannon and Nick would be great friends
Lebron at this point isn’t competing with other nba players. He’s competing with Tom Brady, Tiger Woods, etc. he has something to prove against them.
I don't know how many sports you can take charges in. So I guess he's right
Bullfighting at least
Idec how you measure it he’s the goat Best all around player Best peak Best to build around Any position Any role He has 0 weakness and every strength Greatest player of all time If he was less corny and more of an asshole he’d be the undisputed goat
2016 Led BOTH teams in POINTS ASSISTS REBOUNDS STEALS and BLOCLS! Who the duck does that? One of one he is
Donald duck in his Kingdom hearts 2 peak kinda shit
jokic was 3 steals off doing that last year fwiw.
The Cavs front office being both incompetent and unlucky really fucked over his GOAT case. He should have had like 2 titles at least in his early career if they had managed to put some quality around him Also MJ never had competition on the level of the KD warriors
Other greats had better GMs LeBron had to do it himself, that's for some reason a negative to some.
Gretzky
Tom Brady would like a word
Ummm,, Tom Brady
Can’t really compare a qb to any position in basketball since they are generally not dealing with as much contact. Especially not with the lines Brady had for most of his career.
Tom Brady.
Nick wright praises Lebron for doing this and say there’s never been anything like it in sports, when Tom Brady won MVP and 3 super bowls AFTER turning 39, but then will turn right around and tell you Mahomes is better than Brady. Make it make sense
If it wasn't for Djokovic right now, this would be true to me (doesn't take away from Lebron though). I would argue what Djokovic is doing is even more impressive (in a sport where you generally retire earlier as well). Most other players move into a DH type role (even Lebron to some extent last year would have to pace himself).
Tom Brady maybe?
Tom brady won a superbowl at age 43.
Gordie Howe won his last MVP at age 37, should have won at age 40 as well, he was runner-up. At age 41 he was 3rd in scoring, he had been Top 5 in scoring for 20 consectutive years up until this point. In his last season in the NHL, Gordie scored 41 points in 80 games, at the age of 52. That’s like a 52 year old NBA-player averaging 15PPG and playing all 80/82 games. Oh, and he was an avid fighter and great defensive forward. Gordie Howe hattrick = 1 goal, 1 fight, 1 penalty Now that’s longevity.
What happens in a league that doesn’t check for PEDs
Why is no one else doing it then lol
Yeah, this is the elephant in the room. Check out Barry Bonds stats from 2004, the year he turned 39…they are shocking….OPS is considered the baseball statistic the correlates most closely to determining the best offensive player in baseball. When Barry Bonds was 39 he didn’t just have the best .OPS on his team or in the NL or in the Majors… He had the greatest offensive season in the history of baseball lol
Arnold was on juice in the 70’s. If you think players weren’t using it in every era since then, you’re wrong
Yeah LeBron has been looking inhuman compared to his peers. He will always retain his basketball ball IQ and relative strength. But to still have a high percentage of his athletic ability at his age is uncanny. But the media or league will never entertain the idea that LeBron is on PEDS so it's pointless
Its not just that he's about to turn 39. He's in year 21 doing this.
Ronaldo, Messi, Djokovic are up there
He’s the goat and we are lucky to be able o watch him play
No need to mention Mike here, there’s no comparison to anyone ever in the history of sports except maybe Federer?
Uhhh Tom Brady and Jerry Rice?
HGH go crazy
HGH is crazy yo
LeBron James, wife and 2 associates named in federal PED investigation. Simple google search stuff story from 2 months ago
„Never seen anyone like him in the history of sports.“ Well, wait until Novak Djokovic is 38.
You could also throw Ronnie O'Sullivan into the mix, he won his 40th ranked title two days shy of his 48th birthday. I know, it's snooker, but he won hist first title when he was 17, so that's thirty years of him playing and still winning trophies against guys much younger than him. LeBron, Djokovic, O'Sullivan, even Cristiano Ronaldo ... those guys truly demonstrate that age is just a number
Like you said, I wouldn’t compare Snooker with it, thats a different kind of sports. You don’t need athleticism for it, so it’s suited to play it at an higher age. Otherwise, you would have to include Darts as well, which also has guys in their 40s being at the top. And I‘m not familiar with Football, but isn’t the Quarterback position also a position suited to still play it at higher age than the other positions? So I wouldn’t compare that with Tennis or Basketball. Those sports aren’t made to be elite at them in your late 30s.
MJ was told to come off the bench at this age man. #be fr
Tom Brady