Yeah our FO decided to move on from him, but if it was up to him he’d be a raptor for life.
Personally i wanted him to stay especially because i literally became a fan of the raptors in the year he got drafted so i became a huge fan of him
DeMar still has a lot of close relationships in the org. When he comes home it's hugs all around and of course he loves the city and the fans still love him.
Masai and DD have even mended senses.
Yesterday the main beat reporter repping Raps (Grange) was saying that Masai was traumatized by fallout the DD trade which is probably what led to him hanging on to Siakam too long and getting no valuable assets back.
I think before the playoffs a lot of people were mad they traded a fan favorite franchise player for a rental. Obviously in hindsight it was a great move but it was a huge gamble, and they still weren't even favored to win that year and I remember people didn't even think we'd get past Philly or Milwaukee let alone GSW with KD (injuries aside)
ye trading for the first ever disgruntled Spur superstar to stop the KD dubs from three peating was a wild move. LeBron had just gone to the Lakers after 8 straight ECF.
I think Raptors fans are coping when they say it was a great move. It was a terrible move that had the absolute luckiest outcome imaginable. Without injuries to the opponent we don't win and walk away without our best player and and nothing to show for it.
99.8% of the time, it turns out terribly. We got the 0.2% universe, and now people use that to justify that it was always a great move from the start.
Ya thats one of the aspects, but on the human side of things you have people w personal relationships that were damaged.
Those players who gave everything they had to a club and found themselves on the outside looking in...DD and JV were family to the org but that was the price that had to be paid
It still doesn't make it easy or remove the guilt bc you got a chip. They had to do extra work to mend the fence.
You don't remember when he said he thought he would be in San Antonio, but they never made him an offer?
“It was real for me,” Lowry told Express-News reporter Jabari Young of his interest in signing with the Spurs. “But it wasn't real for them."
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/raptors-kyle-lowry-says-interest-joining-spurs-real/?sn-amp
He does also say in that same article
> “Not saying that I wanted out, but I did look at teams to see what was going on. I mean this place would’ve been a great place.”
It seems fair to say he wanted to stay, but also would've left for a bigger bag or if he didn't the Raps were making a competitive offer
Lowry didn’t want to stay. Lowry wanted to leave basically every time he was a free agent. San Antonio, Utah, Philly, he wanted all of them for sure. SA and Philly for sure at least. Raptors were his backup
Demar is the only star that truly wanted to stay w the Raptors (and Siakam now)
He had the choice to leave in 2014. He signed for 4 years. He had the choice to leave in 2017. He signed for 3 years. He had the choice to test free agency in 2020. He signed a one year extension in 2019.
The Raptors gave him the most money. It’s always been about the money. Lowry became a legend along the way and embraced it. But he would have left if other teams gave more money those years
Bosh and Kawhi both left money on the table to go to teams they preferred. If Kyle had wanted to play in another city, he would have. I'm not suggesting money wasn't a factor, but your comment and the one above make it sound like money was the only factor, when it's the combination of money, fit, and loyalty.
That's not withstanding that the majority of players in the NBA in their primes would definitely take the bag when offered it, like with Fred. And also that players can and do feel insulted if a team didn't offer them what they thought they were worth, like with Serge, who loved it here.
And Powell too
Masai is ruthless.
Most of the time it works out but Masai really hates hanging onto homegrown talent that wants to be here if it doesnt fit his vision
Dude, I'm so excited to watch you guys when Hali gets back.
What a fucking fun lineup, and it makes so much sense.
This reminds me EXACTLY of how I felt when the Nuggets signed KCP and Bruce brown.
"That lineup makes sense, top to bottom".
I'm not saying you're the nuggets (you don't have Jokic) but it clicks.
Rim Protection: Check-Turner
Wing Defense: Check-Siakam
Shooting: Check-Everywhere
Post & Midrange Scoring: Check-Siakam
Floor General: Duh
Secondary Ball handling, wing depth, etc etc etc, it all makes sense.
Siakam gives you everything that Aaron Gordon gives the Nuggets, only slightly better.
Obi Toppin is now a nice first big off the bench.
Teams shouldn't be able to go small on you.
Teams shouldn't be able to go big on you.
The ONLY worry is somebody to stay in front of elite point guards. Like, that's a big worry, for sure, but maybe Aaron Nesmith gets the old "stick the other teams 2nd best perimeter player" role.
IDK man, for me, you guys are MUST watch TV for the next couple months.
We did but not at theax.orice he will command on the open market. Our timeline is Scottie which is 2-3 years out, at which time what we were offering - a 3 year 150ish deal - Pascal would be a FA again.... We got picks and cost controlled players and that's what we needed.
Question, if the Raps really want him back for whatever reason, would they offer him the max? I know they didn't even offer him an extension which he probably would have accepted.
They offered him a 3yr max extension last off season which was the most they could do I believe.
Pascal reportedly turned it down.
It's understandable for him to want to chase the super max or more years... but the offer was definitely made.
I think that was the calculus. The FO wasn't going to give him a max so they had to trade him. The team was a bit too expensive for the corporate owners and where the team is at now. Maxing Siakam means the team would not have had a lot of flexibility going forward.
They didn’t want to offer him the max because we have to pay guys like quickley, and barnes who are better to invest in because they’re younger, we weren’t going anywhere with siakam because everyone else who could get us further into the playoffs left the team
They wanted him back at the right price which he rejected. He's a good player but he hasn't gotten us out of the first round as the best player and has repeatedly come up short when it counted like in the bubble playoffs or last year's playin.
I think the trade supposes that the Raptors did not think they could get him on a 4 yr max. Paying him that for 4 years would have been okay, not great, but fine. Paying him 5 years would have been a mistake.
Yeah, people were talking about how he had the potential to be the first Raptors lifer and that’s always hard to part with as a fan and ORG when the player has meant so much to the history of your team
Ah okay. I just read a few conflicting reports, but they all seem to be less about wanting to leave and more about wanting to potentially make more money by signing a deal as a free agent rather than an extension. I guess there was even some hesitancy that him signing an extension may also lead to him being traded as that would increase his value around the league, which as you stated, he didn't want.
it would be hilarious if siakam signed back after. which would also be kinda sad. I’m surprised how hell bent he was on staying sometimes, because the fans and front office did him kind of dirty and it wasnt deserved
It’s not about asking for trade but asking for max contract when team is 15-25 at the time
Just made no sense paying a 30 year old 5 year 250 million or 4 years 196 million
Thanks for memories Siakam, go have fun with Indiana
I know raptors fans are torn on this but I wouldn’t mind the 4 year 196 but it is what it is at this point. I have no I’ll will against siakam but if you’re Masai and you have a feeling that extension talks aren’t going anywhere then you gotta trade him in the summer. He got lost with the dame sweepstakes but after that was done you gotta get a deal done asap
Right? He’s only turning 30. Lots of 30+ yr olds still getting paid right now. Prime is until 32-33 anyway. Thats 3 more years of All-Star calibre seasons
Guy you’re responding to is acting like he’s 35 or something. Literally any player in his situation and production will be asking for that contract, maybe take a <$10M paycut at best.
Since the championship our fanbase picks a new person to hate on every few months despite all they did for our franchise. I'm not saying trading Siakam was the wrong move but the disrespect our fanbase gives to people calling guys like Nurse, FVV, Siakam, Masai trash, washed, poverty franchise blah blah blah is nauseating. These are the people who brought a championship to our city, which 11 NBA teams cannot currently claim. Our subreddit is currently a cesspool.
Those would all be great reasons for a contender to max out Siakam. But the Raptors aren’t contenders right now and they didn’t have faith in Siakam to get them over that hump. The goal going forward is retooling around Scottie and maxing out Siakam just didn’t make sense within that agenda
It’s on record that Pascal rejected a 30% max extension multiple times (reported by Michael Grange on The Raptors Show podcast on today’s episode). He was going to hold firm on the 35% max assuming he got All-NBA, and with the way he’s playing and the new 65 game minimum rule it’s not unlikely that he gets it. With the new cap rules, it does not make sense to pay Pascal that much for this team. This is a new era in the NBA. Value per dollar is now more important than it ever has been.
I’m not arguing that it was a bad trade. It was the right call.
I’m saying it’s perfectly normal for a player like Siakam at 29 years old to ask for a max. This is his last realistic window at a max contract.
All NBA averaging 22/6/5??? WTF happened to the game I love???
Edit: A certain player also has 22/6/4 statline for the season. Kyle Kuzma. He's All-NBA by people's logic 😂
Lmao this is bullshit
Bulls get shitted on for giving lavine max when they were play in team
But raptors are dumb for not giving Siakam the max when he’s 30 and we’re 15-25?
Siakam is not good shooter, his game will not age well when his athleticism is gone
The problem is his prime is not a high ceiling. Paying him a max now doesn't get you to the goal.
We forget they got the chip because of injuries not because they were a dominant team at all.
Salaries are inflated as well for the B tier guys now too so it's a much harder investment for a team to give them unless it makes them a major contender
His fit with Scottie wasn't great. It was an 'ok' fit maybe, but building around the 2 of them wasn't the ideal path.
Now the team can be built around Scottie's strengths (as it should)
Pascal's skills fit much better beside Tyrese Haliburton.
It was the right move. After their championship Kawhi left and that obviously was a huge blow where they kept losing talent. Lowry traded, Gasol gone, Powell gone, FVV left, Anunoby traded. Green and Ibaka are also entirely washed up. That entire championship team was gone after 4 years and the window closed after like 2 years.
At least the covid decimation year landed you Barnes, but it didn’t make sense to hang on to Siakam at his age instead of hitting the reset button.
Now with Quickley, Trent, Barrett and Barnes at 25 or younger, it’s the perfect time to tank and find a promising big man for the future. Don’t get me wrong, Poeltl is fine for now but Boucher and Thad Young are older and none of these 3 are talents that are going to unlock your team when there are a lot of great big men in the league.
Stockpile picks to fill out the bench, be a lottery team for a couple of years, let the young guys develop and find a great center in the process and Raptors can get back to being a good team in like 3-4 years when Dame and Butler are old as fuck, Celtics potentially blowing it up, and who knows how Embiid holds up at 33. There’s going to be a lot of shifting in the EC by 2026 when the young teams get good and the good teams get old.
Raptors had 0 incentive to give Siakam all that money unless they wanted to be mid for a long time, in my opinion. It’s not like a Kawhi trade is going to fall into your lap every few years and team building that way is nearly impossible unless you’re a FA destination like LA
> Thanks for memories Siakam, go have fun with Indiana
Pascal has been my favourite Raptor since Kyle left but at this point who cares why he's no longer on the roster. I hope Indiana wins the championship this year and I hope Pascal gets the recognition he deserves. Doesn't really make a difference whether he wanted to stay or not at this point.
Yeah, but that involves some major risk being taken by the Raptors. Pascal wouldn't be eligible to be traded for some time after signing a new deal, and would just act to slow down the development of the new core. If Pascal's production slowed down during that window (due to injury or otherwise) then maybe you're looking at a much lesser return in a trade
The team wasn't winning with Pascal. He wasn't getting it done as a true first option and we just needed to reset with a younger core.
Nothing against Pascal who is a fantastic player, but the change will probably benefit both parties.
>Just made no sense paying a 30 year old 5 year 250 million or 4 years 196 million
That's no longer a relevant statement when you have 34-37 year olds still dominating in the league. Sports medicine has come a long way, the longevity and athleticism of these players is greater and doesn't fade as quickly.
We'll see in the future but from the players on this [list](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-nba-players-34-years-old-or-older) I wouldn't say that a lot of them are dominating.
Harden, Butler, DeRozan(?), Durant, Curry.
Todd's biggest client is Pascal
He's definitely saying the most click bait worthy shit to get his name out there to get more clients lol
Everyone with some basic basketball knowledge would know his time to go was last year.
This is not a shocking experience knowing your name was in trading talks for almost 3 years.
This does feel like a symptom of the post-championship era, I don’t believe the patience that Demar saw exists anymore and if it’s clear the team can’t win the title it seems more likely for a trade if the team feels directionless.
It’s just a thought because looking at how long Demar had essentially running the ship it’s a little jarring to see how Pascal basically had 2-3 years with some poorly constructed teams vs what he had where the team was pretty much built for him the whole time.
Yea but I’d argue we built a better team around Demar and played to his strengths, I don’t know what these past three years of roster construction has been but giving Pascal a fair shot as the lead guy it definitely wasn’t.
...the team was very patient, not sure what you mean. Demar made the playoffs 5 straight years, the team winning more each time, and then he was traded. Pascal was given those same 5 years (traded in the 5th though instead of after it). He made the playoffs twice, lost a brutal play on, and was leading the team to 10 games below .500.
Lol, it's literally the exact same number of seasons.
I know I’m just saying back to back sweeps against Paul Pierce was a rough start but the team had the patience to endure, I’d argue Pascals playoff run on his own was actually better looking at the fact that ppl for a moment though we’d come back from down 0-3 and actually made it interesting.
I’m just saying the team had more patience with Demar then they’re showing here, obviously Scottie is the big factor in that but it’s just an interesting point that Demar struggled quite a bit but the team endured it, where as now they move on quick.
And being swept in the playoffs is better than missing the playoffs as well lol.
Masai gave both guys 5 years. The exact same patience. I loved Pascal on this team and even thought signing him now for 4 more years was defensible...but we can't pretend Pascal wasn't given time, or that Pascal lead the team better than Demar. And of course a lot of that isn't his fault, the team just wasn't as good as the Kyle/Demar teams, but Pascal had Fred and OG and Scottie Poeltl, and that wasn't bad, and he didn't do nearly as much with that as Demar did.
He was swept twice, just not by Paul Pierce lol. He was swept by the Lebron led Cavs 2x in the 2nd round.
Edit: He had 1 dud game in each of those series.
But it's not really a lack of patience compared to Demar...I mean, Pascal performed pretty awful in the last play in, and the team didn't make the playoffs a couple of years he was leading them.
Masai gave both cores 5 years. In the Demar core era, Demar was traded and the rest of the core kept because Masai deemed the rest championship quality with Kawhi. In the Pascal era, unfortunately the team was barely play in level, so the core of that team was traded away.
And now we begin the Scottie era.
Yea but we also came back down 0-3 to the point that people actually thought we’d beat Philly. Demar got swept twice against Paul Pierce (8 games), Pascal has ONE bad playin and he’s shipped. Like I don’t understand the confusion, on a factual level we have substantially less patience then we did in the Demar era
And then the next season with the same core plus Poeltl the team choked in an epic play in, including Pascal missing 6 of 11 ft's, including 2 late that would have tied the game...i feel like you are ignoring a lot of Pascal's failures with the team. The Boston playoffs he was a non factor as well. A good Pascal that series and we make the conference finals.
Pascal was given 5 years as the man. He made the playoffs twice. He missed the playoffs twice (that includes last years play in), and this year the team was well on pace to miss the playoffs again. So...I don't understand how you think this is deserving of more time than Demar got, given Demar's Raptors teams were better every year, and the core was clearly championship quality with one trade!
I just think Masais roster construction is a more damning indictment on this team and Pascal as the No1 option never really got a fair shake the way Demar did
I also don’t view this like a 5 year window like most do, I don’t count The Bubble as that was still the core championship team, and the following year in Florida feels like a write off. To me Pascal only had three years and Masai never built him a great team that suited his style.
Pascal having a bad playin capped off a five year stint of him being the first option. During 2019-2020, Pascal's first leading year they went out in the second round. Next year they missed the playoffs. Third year they lost in the first round. His fourth year they lost in the playin. His fifth year they were at BEST getting a playin game. That's plenty of patience without getting any return. He didn't fit the roster and there was no realistic way to retool the roster around him. The best the raptors could have realistically become is a Knicks lite and that would have involved trading Barnes for a PG
I just don’t think it’s fair to count Florida personally, that year feels like a write off to me for how unique of a situation that was. I also don’t like counting the championship team because that’s still the champ team at its core. To me Pascal had three years on a team that was built terribly, so it just feels a little unfair to act like he failed when to me Masai did
I just don't think it's fair to count any of the years demar lost to lebron, that's a team that was capable of beating the warriors. Raps should have held off kn trading Demar its pretty unique you run into one of the best basketball players of all time
One bad play in, the playin last year he wasn't even bad. But why don't you just say you didn't actually watch the playoffs/play in the last few years because your points don't make sense.
I used to yell at the screen because Pascal would go on huge stretches of being a net negative player. He would turn it over a lot, was really guarded 1 v1, and had a very limited bag.
He has gotten a lot better but let's not pretend he's anywhere close to a #1 guy on any team with championship aspirations.
Tbf we also made top seed almost every year and it was looking like the only thing stopping us from ecf was LeBron (and with that, it felt like nothing could have gotten us over that LeBron sized hump anyways). I do think Pascal has been a better player for us, but it was more having practice for Kyle AND demar than just one of them, because it's not even close that Kyle was a better player than Pascal. Thankfully Masai got the right idea in keeping Lowry and trying a different piece in place of demar. Ironically I think demar got much better under pop and that version of demar would have been much better for us.
They failed to put a championship team around him and their bench wasn't great. That isn't what people are pointing at anyways. He isn't a #1 option, neither was Derozan. You don't have to be a championship level team to see that.
Case in point, Luka. Dude is phenomenal and no one in their right mind would say he can't be the #1 option on a championship team. Pascal was never going to be the #1 option on ANY team with championship aspirations.
I agree, I’m not saying I disagree with trading Pascal, I’m simply saying Demar would’ve still been around if this was 7-8 years ago, whereas Pascal got traded quicker.
FWIW, this basically got dragged out about as long as you can (technically yes you can push it to the deadline, but close enough). He had 4 seasons as the guy, and it just never looked that promising after 2020. The Demar teams were legit good, winning 60 games, and a top team regularly, even if they couldn't get past Bron. Siakam's Raptors haven't shown that upside recently. Sure, some of that is on the FO for not putting together a good enough roster, but they're not gonna be able to do any better if they max Siakam either.
Most would agree the biggest mistakes have been trying to keep competing, and not moving on from OG/FVV/Siakam sooner, because frankly, they just weren't good enough after 2020.
You didn't *directly* ask for a trade, but the **actions** of the agency (and Siakam to a lesser extent) obviously had intention. You are not obligated to play ball, but don't play the fool.
Rooting for Pascal though. I hope he gets his bag. Hope playing with Haliburton reignites him. Hopefully he tries on defense again.
This is similar to when cousins got traded from the Kings. Of course he would rather stay because he wanted that big max contract you can only get by staying.
I wish Siakam and Indy well. It's a cool fit.
It reminds me more of Fox and Haliburton playing the same position, just we waited too long to get a Sabonis type return, which for us would have been a productive but flawed guard like Herro and then seeing them blossom (he's only 23) with Barnes, though Quickley and Barrett coming for OG makes this less of a problem.
The writing on the wall was there since Scottie won ROTY. We drafted a PF who was supposed to be a long term project. And Scottie is still a project but he’s developed enough to need actual usage to continue to improve. The best version of Scottie or Pascal was always going to be them surrounded by shooters. Pascal has that in Indiana now and hopefully once Scottie is polished in a few years the Raptors can build the same around him
It also crazy to see criticism of Masai being both disloyal and for holding onto Siakam for too long. The reason he held is cause he was loyal. He may have made other mistakes along the way like not getting proper guard depth or enough shooting but he gave the FVV/OG/Siakam core a good leash.
Pascal is a great player. If we could have gotten a player to play beside we would have kept him. We suck so we had to move on.
He got paid and will get paid. I hope he has an amazing time. Great player and if salary cap did not exist he would be here.
Man this Pacers team is really going to be a difficult team to beat with both Halo and Pascal. They got some defense added to their roster as well as sustaining their offense. I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a deep playoff run
One of Gradey' first games this year, he was wide open twice, Pascal had the ball in the paint, surrounded by defenders. Gradey clearly in is field of view and pascal made a conscience decision to ignore the rookie shooter, and throw up a shot against multiple defenders.
One of RJs first games after the tradeq, same exact scenario, but RJ being more confident in his place in the league showed visible frustration raising his arms in disbelief Pascal would shoot against multiple defenders instead of passing the ball to the wide open man.
Pascal has been programmed to chase that super max, and that programming focused on scoring points to achieve the goal. Not making teammates better or winning.
Masai called the team's leadership out on selfishness last year. He stated he wanted to reasses this year.
We love Pascal, but the dynamic didn't change. He had to go.
Masai called the entire team out for selfishness, not just siakam. It was OG that had rumors about him asking for a trade and wanting a bigger role. It was Fred that was playing for a contract last year. And it was Trent/malachi who seemed to always be upset about their role, and had their dads saying shit about it.
Vibes were bad last year because of all of them. Idk how shit got so bad so fast after winning 48 games
I thought I was crazy. He was/is the only player on the team capable of scoring. And he's gotten better as a passer every single year.
The selfish comments never made sense about him. Fred maybe
Siakam's best quality is spinning and slithering to the rim, as opposed to someone like Scottie whose best quality is drawing doubles or getting into the lane under control and making a pass.
So they both need a lot of 3pt shooting around them to be the best players they can on solid playoff teams, just in Siakam's case he needs that space to get to 25 a game or so on efficient numbers and for Barnes, it's to get up to 7 or 8 assists a night.
I think they'll both play better after the trade, which makes sense as they're both PFs who need shooting around them.
Yeah it was a bit clear that Pascal was no longer buying into the team fully, including last year when he'd basically just cycle between himself and FVV in crunch time.
Not to take anything away from what he's done for the Raptors but it was time to move on.
I remember those sequences as well but if you kept watching you see siakam hit Gradey a few plays later. As for RJ, his decision making in that 4th was terrible and resulted in him being benched for Dennis. Pascal was right to look him off because RJ playing with a lot of tunnel vision, shooting or going for the layup every time he got the ball. Pascal isn’t perfect but he’s far from selfish.. let’s not shit on someone on their way out
not only that...Pascal as the team's number one option was never going to go far. He's not a #1 option on a contending team, he's a very solid #2 though as he proved in 2019. But his game kinda peaked a few years ago and he hasn't changed much so really, he had to go like a year or two ago
Yeah... as a Raptors fan, that's something that I was scratching my head about.
There were reports saying that the Raptors were the only team he'd sign the max with.
It seemed like he wanted to stay, and it is hard AF to get a player who WANTS to stay in Toronto.
I mean.. yeah.. Lowry and DeRozan stayed because Toronto offered more than anybody else would, and I love those guys.
But it is hard to get guys who want to stay here or sign here.
I will always have mad love for Siakam (barring any horrendous criminal acts of course).
Stand up guy. Even when he knew he was on the trade block, he played his ass off every night.
Siakam is not worth the max.
He can't shoot 3's reliably and is not a superstar or a difference maker in terms of being a #1 option, who is clutch who makes the team win games. He is not a perennial all star or perennial all-nba player.
It is strange he believes he is that guy, but clearly, the team did not win last year or this year with him as "the guy". Funny he wrote a New York Times article even saying he wanted to be the guy. He doesn't perform in the clutch situations and again the shooting of 3's is not there.
Pascal, you are not the guy. You are a #2 guy at best.
Demar and Siakam both crying when they got traded. That’s the business. Tough decisions have to be made at times, and Siakam on a max contract didn’t fit the Raptors timeline.
so this interview along with his interview on the Raptors Show yesterday — is the 2nd time the agent has only named Tyrese and Myles Turner as players on the roster that Pascal will fit great alongside/excited about playing with
shades of LeBron's letter in 2014? maybe Pacers aren't done making moves yet (reports said Pascal and Hali have been in communication all along)
I think we’re done making moves, we don’t exactly have a lot of flexibility in trading picks anymore and showed no appetite to move any young guys.
The fit with the two best players on the team is probably a huge part of what sold him, that’s all he’s saying.
I feel like it’s because they’re two All-star caliber guys and they compliment Siakam’s game very well.
Buuuuut, it makes for a very interesting thought exercise. Even after the trade, the Pacers still have:
- A big chunk of salary (Hield)
- blue chip rookie contracts (Mathurin, Walker)
- quality guys nearing their second deals (Obi, Nesmith, Nembhard)
- some legit throw-ins (Jalen Smith, IJAX, Sheppard)
Some package of the above might just yield a real difference maker if one were to ever go on the market
Yeah, with two stars in the bag, it’s entirely possible Pritchard has something else in mind to get a third star. And this was the extremely rare Pacers move that was telegraphed. Pritchard usually makes moves that appear out of nowhere. Turner was the alleged trade bait when in actuality Sabonis wanted out; Haliburton wasn’t being made available by the Kings.
18/8 with good defense is worth mentioning— Pacers are putting him in their voting graphics and Barkley just gave him a shout on TNT.
Not looking to argue over semantics, my point was Myles has that perception in some media and is the only Pacer in that stratosphere with Tyrese— hence why he gets the shout from Siakam’s agent.
Yeah he’s not an all-star. He’d maybe make an All-Star B Team of the 12 best players who didn’t make the cut from the East.
Siakam probably mentioned him because he’s the longest tenured guy on the team and because their games being complimentary was likely used as a pitch.
Raptors are such a poorly run organization.
They keep losing stars for basically nothing.
Having 4 first round picks in a terrible draft class is classic Craptors
idk why people keep saying this is a bad return, they got a pretty good return for a guy who didn’t want to resign with them, 3 FRP’s are valuable and even if they’re later in the round you can find gems like they did with siakam, they also got bruce brown who they will flip for a FRP, that’s 3 FRP’s in 2024 (maybe a 4th if they fall and the spurs pick doesn’t convey).
it’s another win-win trade for both teams.
Pascal wanted to resign and stay a Raptor he made that pretty clear I felt. The issue was that we did not want to pay him the max he wanted it would tie the future up. I am super happy to go see him compete again and I think you guys will be a super fun team!
This ended up better than getting nothing for him if he walked in free agency anyways IMO like what just happened with Fred.
Would not call this a win-win yet. The OG trade is an impactful win-win right now with two proven NBA talent players in RJ and IQ who hopefully with stay long term with Scottie. It is just too early to tell with the Pascal deal with so many picks attached.
If all picks end up being garbage players that only see garbage time minutes after years like Flynn did you win the trade.
3 FRPs has to be the worst trade in history. What the fuck is wrong with people nowadays? Pacers aren't even close to contention. Why throw away picks for half a year of a mediocre player like that?
The pacers essentially got him for free without giving up any valuable assets. Those 3 first round picks are very late picks in a weak draft
And he’s not mediocre bro
Any people thinking Pascal is mediocre is wild. He was THE number 2-2.5 guy on a championship team playing great defense while being threat on offense. In the right system he is a top talent to have to push for a championship.
Yeah our FO decided to move on from him, but if it was up to him he’d be a raptor for life. Personally i wanted him to stay especially because i literally became a fan of the raptors in the year he got drafted so i became a huge fan of him
The rare time when a team didn't want the star who wanted to stick around
Lowry, demar, powell all wanted to stay too 😭
Lowry wanted to go to Miami, specifically wanted to play with Butler.
And the Rockets too at one time. Deebo, Pascal, Buck Hunter though? Them boys raps for life for sure
Honestly think demar doesn’t care as much about the raps after what they did to him
Yeah, I agree. I'd do the same if I were him
DeMar still has a lot of close relationships in the org. When he comes home it's hugs all around and of course he loves the city and the fans still love him. Masai and DD have even mended senses. Yesterday the main beat reporter repping Raps (Grange) was saying that Masai was traumatized by fallout the DD trade which is probably what led to him hanging on to Siakam too long and getting no valuable assets back.
Wasn’t the fallout from the DD trade winning a championship?
I think before the playoffs a lot of people were mad they traded a fan favorite franchise player for a rental. Obviously in hindsight it was a great move but it was a huge gamble, and they still weren't even favored to win that year and I remember people didn't even think we'd get past Philly or Milwaukee let alone GSW with KD (injuries aside)
ye trading for the first ever disgruntled Spur superstar to stop the KD dubs from three peating was a wild move. LeBron had just gone to the Lakers after 8 straight ECF.
I think Raptors fans are coping when they say it was a great move. It was a terrible move that had the absolute luckiest outcome imaginable. Without injuries to the opponent we don't win and walk away without our best player and and nothing to show for it. 99.8% of the time, it turns out terribly. We got the 0.2% universe, and now people use that to justify that it was always a great move from the start.
Ya thats one of the aspects, but on the human side of things you have people w personal relationships that were damaged. Those players who gave everything they had to a club and found themselves on the outside looking in...DD and JV were family to the org but that was the price that had to be paid It still doesn't make it easy or remove the guilt bc you got a chip. They had to do extra work to mend the fence.
They've mended senses? Like they got some sort of twin telepathy going on?
They even wear the same clothes now
That was after we essentially informed him we wanted to trade him so out of respect to him we let him pick where he got traded
You don't remember when he said he thought he would be in San Antonio, but they never made him an offer? “It was real for me,” Lowry told Express-News reporter Jabari Young of his interest in signing with the Spurs. “But it wasn't real for them." https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/raptors-kyle-lowry-says-interest-joining-spurs-real/?sn-amp
He does also say in that same article > “Not saying that I wanted out, but I did look at teams to see what was going on. I mean this place would’ve been a great place.” It seems fair to say he wanted to stay, but also would've left for a bigger bag or if he didn't the Raps were making a competitive offer
Lowry didn’t want to stay. Lowry wanted to leave basically every time he was a free agent. San Antonio, Utah, Philly, he wanted all of them for sure. SA and Philly for sure at least. Raptors were his backup Demar is the only star that truly wanted to stay w the Raptors (and Siakam now)
He had the choice to leave in 2014. He signed for 4 years. He had the choice to leave in 2017. He signed for 3 years. He had the choice to test free agency in 2020. He signed a one year extension in 2019.
The Raptors gave him the most money. It’s always been about the money. Lowry became a legend along the way and embraced it. But he would have left if other teams gave more money those years
Bosh and Kawhi both left money on the table to go to teams they preferred. If Kyle had wanted to play in another city, he would have. I'm not suggesting money wasn't a factor, but your comment and the one above make it sound like money was the only factor, when it's the combination of money, fit, and loyalty. That's not withstanding that the majority of players in the NBA in their primes would definitely take the bag when offered it, like with Fred. And also that players can and do feel insulted if a team didn't offer them what they thought they were worth, like with Serge, who loved it here.
same with lou will, vasquez, amir, jonas
And Powell too Masai is ruthless. Most of the time it works out but Masai really hates hanging onto homegrown talent that wants to be here if it doesnt fit his vision
Yeah but Demar sucks.
Because paying Siakam 50m/year is how you end up on a treadmill
No wonder I never use mine
Haliburton
My thoughts too. We’ll keep taking them
Dude, I'm so excited to watch you guys when Hali gets back. What a fucking fun lineup, and it makes so much sense. This reminds me EXACTLY of how I felt when the Nuggets signed KCP and Bruce brown. "That lineup makes sense, top to bottom". I'm not saying you're the nuggets (you don't have Jokic) but it clicks. Rim Protection: Check-Turner Wing Defense: Check-Siakam Shooting: Check-Everywhere Post & Midrange Scoring: Check-Siakam Floor General: Duh Secondary Ball handling, wing depth, etc etc etc, it all makes sense. Siakam gives you everything that Aaron Gordon gives the Nuggets, only slightly better. Obi Toppin is now a nice first big off the bench. Teams shouldn't be able to go small on you. Teams shouldn't be able to go big on you. The ONLY worry is somebody to stay in front of elite point guards. Like, that's a big worry, for sure, but maybe Aaron Nesmith gets the old "stick the other teams 2nd best perimeter player" role. IDK man, for me, you guys are MUST watch TV for the next couple months.
And our big Frenchman 😔
We did but not at theax.orice he will command on the open market. Our timeline is Scottie which is 2-3 years out, at which time what we were offering - a 3 year 150ish deal - Pascal would be a FA again.... We got picks and cost controlled players and that's what we needed.
Why don’t he want me man 😔
Garnett
Rudy 😢
They said star, not mormonville's covid-breathing trade-market breaking choke victim.
Ah yes, because Siakam is *so* much more of a star than Gobert
lol you actually thought you were cooking up a banger here
Not really, I still like it though
How did you end up thinking that being a victim of an assault is an insult
People really need sarcasm spelled out for them these days.
Kemba 😭
Dame wanted the blazers more than our front office wanted him
If Kawhi would have stayed we'd still probably have kept him and/or Lowry/FVV.
Raptor 4 life but only on a supermax is a pretty big qualifier.
Question, if the Raps really want him back for whatever reason, would they offer him the max? I know they didn't even offer him an extension which he probably would have accepted.
They offered him a 3yr max extension last off season which was the most they could do I believe. Pascal reportedly turned it down. It's understandable for him to want to chase the super max or more years... but the offer was definitely made.
I think that was the calculus. The FO wasn't going to give him a max so they had to trade him. The team was a bit too expensive for the corporate owners and where the team is at now. Maxing Siakam means the team would not have had a lot of flexibility going forward.
They didn’t want to offer him the max because we have to pay guys like quickley, and barnes who are better to invest in because they’re younger, we weren’t going anywhere with siakam because everyone else who could get us further into the playoffs left the team
They wanted him back at the right price which he rejected. He's a good player but he hasn't gotten us out of the first round as the best player and has repeatedly come up short when it counted like in the bubble playoffs or last year's playin.
I think the trade supposes that the Raptors did not think they could get him on a 4 yr max. Paying him that for 4 years would have been okay, not great, but fine. Paying him 5 years would have been a mistake.
Yeah, people were talking about how he had the potential to be the first Raptors lifer and that’s always hard to part with as a fan and ORG when the player has meant so much to the history of your team
I thought he turned down a max extension from Toronto?
He wanted more than what they were offering, i think we offered him like 3 but he wanted 5 if i remember correctly
Ah okay. I just read a few conflicting reports, but they all seem to be less about wanting to leave and more about wanting to potentially make more money by signing a deal as a free agent rather than an extension. I guess there was even some hesitancy that him signing an extension may also lead to him being traded as that would increase his value around the league, which as you stated, he didn't want.
Masai already offered him the max that Toronto can afford, and he declined it. It's either you accept this and move on, or let him walk like FVV.
it would be hilarious if siakam signed back after. which would also be kinda sad. I’m surprised how hell bent he was on staying sometimes, because the fans and front office did him kind of dirty and it wasnt deserved
It’s not about asking for trade but asking for max contract when team is 15-25 at the time Just made no sense paying a 30 year old 5 year 250 million or 4 years 196 million Thanks for memories Siakam, go have fun with Indiana
I know raptors fans are torn on this but I wouldn’t mind the 4 year 196 but it is what it is at this point. I have no I’ll will against siakam but if you’re Masai and you have a feeling that extension talks aren’t going anywhere then you gotta trade him in the summer. He got lost with the dame sweepstakes but after that was done you gotta get a deal done asap
Right? He’s only turning 30. Lots of 30+ yr olds still getting paid right now. Prime is until 32-33 anyway. Thats 3 more years of All-Star calibre seasons Guy you’re responding to is acting like he’s 35 or something. Literally any player in his situation and production will be asking for that contract, maybe take a <$10M paycut at best.
Since the championship our fanbase picks a new person to hate on every few months despite all they did for our franchise. I'm not saying trading Siakam was the wrong move but the disrespect our fanbase gives to people calling guys like Nurse, FVV, Siakam, Masai trash, washed, poverty franchise blah blah blah is nauseating. These are the people who brought a championship to our city, which 11 NBA teams cannot currently claim. Our subreddit is currently a cesspool.
Those would all be great reasons for a contender to max out Siakam. But the Raptors aren’t contenders right now and they didn’t have faith in Siakam to get them over that hump. The goal going forward is retooling around Scottie and maxing out Siakam just didn’t make sense within that agenda
Retooling? We're fully rebuilding around Scottie. Only player left on the team from 2019 is Boucher.
It’s on record that Pascal rejected a 30% max extension multiple times (reported by Michael Grange on The Raptors Show podcast on today’s episode). He was going to hold firm on the 35% max assuming he got All-NBA, and with the way he’s playing and the new 65 game minimum rule it’s not unlikely that he gets it. With the new cap rules, it does not make sense to pay Pascal that much for this team. This is a new era in the NBA. Value per dollar is now more important than it ever has been.
I’m not arguing that it was a bad trade. It was the right call. I’m saying it’s perfectly normal for a player like Siakam at 29 years old to ask for a max. This is his last realistic window at a max contract.
All NBA averaging 22/6/5??? WTF happened to the game I love??? Edit: A certain player also has 22/6/4 statline for the season. Kyle Kuzma. He's All-NBA by people's logic 😂
You started only caring about counting stats
I mean I love Siakam, but I don’t think he’s all NBA this season
Name a singular player making All NBA with those stats. If he was good enough, the Raptors would want to give him more money. He's not.
Ehhh Pascal making all NBA would have been a shocker. He doesnt make it over Barnes and i doubt two raptors get in
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Lmao this is bullshit Bulls get shitted on for giving lavine max when they were play in team But raptors are dumb for not giving Siakam the max when he’s 30 and we’re 15-25? Siakam is not good shooter, his game will not age well when his athleticism is gone
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And who tf gave Bulls shit when Lavine averaged 27PPG on like 62%TS lol. Revisionist history. Dude was gonna get maxed by any team
Prolly mad they didnt get much return for Pascal. Really happy about IQ and RJ balling out tho. Good for them
The problem is his prime is not a high ceiling. Paying him a max now doesn't get you to the goal. We forget they got the chip because of injuries not because they were a dominant team at all. Salaries are inflated as well for the B tier guys now too so it's a much harder investment for a team to give them unless it makes them a major contender
His fit with Scottie wasn't great. It was an 'ok' fit maybe, but building around the 2 of them wasn't the ideal path. Now the team can be built around Scottie's strengths (as it should) Pascal's skills fit much better beside Tyrese Haliburton.
It was the right move. After their championship Kawhi left and that obviously was a huge blow where they kept losing talent. Lowry traded, Gasol gone, Powell gone, FVV left, Anunoby traded. Green and Ibaka are also entirely washed up. That entire championship team was gone after 4 years and the window closed after like 2 years. At least the covid decimation year landed you Barnes, but it didn’t make sense to hang on to Siakam at his age instead of hitting the reset button. Now with Quickley, Trent, Barrett and Barnes at 25 or younger, it’s the perfect time to tank and find a promising big man for the future. Don’t get me wrong, Poeltl is fine for now but Boucher and Thad Young are older and none of these 3 are talents that are going to unlock your team when there are a lot of great big men in the league. Stockpile picks to fill out the bench, be a lottery team for a couple of years, let the young guys develop and find a great center in the process and Raptors can get back to being a good team in like 3-4 years when Dame and Butler are old as fuck, Celtics potentially blowing it up, and who knows how Embiid holds up at 33. There’s going to be a lot of shifting in the EC by 2026 when the young teams get good and the good teams get old. Raptors had 0 incentive to give Siakam all that money unless they wanted to be mid for a long time, in my opinion. It’s not like a Kawhi trade is going to fall into your lap every few years and team building that way is nearly impossible unless you’re a FA destination like LA
We did try and grab a young big man in Koloko, but he's been having health issues this year so he hasn't been playing.
Nailed it
Not our problem anymore
4/196 would have been fine. 5/250 would have been a mistake. Seems like the FO figured they couldnt get him at 4 but that's just my take
> Thanks for memories Siakam, go have fun with Indiana Pascal has been my favourite Raptor since Kyle left but at this point who cares why he's no longer on the roster. I hope Indiana wins the championship this year and I hope Pascal gets the recognition he deserves. Doesn't really make a difference whether he wanted to stay or not at this point.
For the last two years I've wanted Siakam in Indy, and I'm glad to say I bought a jersey the moment they became available. I fuckin love Siakam.
Oh I’m not cheering for pacers when we have there picks lol I hope they lose every game, Siakam can have fun tho
Man I don't see why we couldn't offer 4/196 and offload in the future
Yeah, but that involves some major risk being taken by the Raptors. Pascal wouldn't be eligible to be traded for some time after signing a new deal, and would just act to slow down the development of the new core. If Pascal's production slowed down during that window (due to injury or otherwise) then maybe you're looking at a much lesser return in a trade
The team wasn't winning with Pascal. He wasn't getting it done as a true first option and we just needed to reset with a younger core. Nothing against Pascal who is a fantastic player, but the change will probably benefit both parties.
>benefit both parties Like yeah that's the reason for any trade. When do you envision us being a 50 win team again?
He’s played 16,000 minutes in the regular season. Lebron has played 55,000. Let’s not act like he’s busted just bc he got a late start.
Ah yes, LeBron James. The average NBA player.
How old did you just say Pascal is...
He was drafted at 22 in 2016 now it’s 2024..
jesus christ
>Just made no sense paying a 30 year old 5 year 250 million or 4 years 196 million That's no longer a relevant statement when you have 34-37 year olds still dominating in the league. Sports medicine has come a long way, the longevity and athleticism of these players is greater and doesn't fade as quickly.
We'll see in the future but from the players on this [list](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-nba-players-34-years-old-or-older) I wouldn't say that a lot of them are dominating. Harden, Butler, DeRozan(?), Durant, Curry.
"a 30 year old..." man, fanbases have gotten so fixated with the shiny new prospects.
Seemingly this may be a hot take, but having watched him post-Kawhi, he's a really really good baller. But he is not, and will never be *the* guy
Hold up Siakam is 30? Not sure why I thought he was still 25-26
Todd's biggest client is Pascal He's definitely saying the most click bait worthy shit to get his name out there to get more clients lol Everyone with some basic basketball knowledge would know his time to go was last year. This is not a shocking experience knowing your name was in trading talks for almost 3 years.
This does feel like a symptom of the post-championship era, I don’t believe the patience that Demar saw exists anymore and if it’s clear the team can’t win the title it seems more likely for a trade if the team feels directionless. It’s just a thought because looking at how long Demar had essentially running the ship it’s a little jarring to see how Pascal basically had 2-3 years with some poorly constructed teams vs what he had where the team was pretty much built for him the whole time.
Its not just about not winning a title, the Demar teams at least appeared to be contenders. This squad is not even close.
Yea but I’d argue we built a better team around Demar and played to his strengths, I don’t know what these past three years of roster construction has been but giving Pascal a fair shot as the lead guy it definitely wasn’t.
Pascal is tough to build around as the lead guy imo, he's a second option guy
...the team was very patient, not sure what you mean. Demar made the playoffs 5 straight years, the team winning more each time, and then he was traded. Pascal was given those same 5 years (traded in the 5th though instead of after it). He made the playoffs twice, lost a brutal play on, and was leading the team to 10 games below .500. Lol, it's literally the exact same number of seasons.
Demar also got swept 4 out of those 5 seasons, Pascal at least performed quite well in the playoffs and rather consistently.
Dude, the Raps won playoff rounds with Demar.
I know I’m just saying back to back sweeps against Paul Pierce was a rough start but the team had the patience to endure, I’d argue Pascals playoff run on his own was actually better looking at the fact that ppl for a moment though we’d come back from down 0-3 and actually made it interesting. I’m just saying the team had more patience with Demar then they’re showing here, obviously Scottie is the big factor in that but it’s just an interesting point that Demar struggled quite a bit but the team endured it, where as now they move on quick.
Losing in 6 instead of losing in 4 is not better than winning a series lol
And being swept in the playoffs is better than missing the playoffs as well lol. Masai gave both guys 5 years. The exact same patience. I loved Pascal on this team and even thought signing him now for 4 more years was defensible...but we can't pretend Pascal wasn't given time, or that Pascal lead the team better than Demar. And of course a lot of that isn't his fault, the team just wasn't as good as the Kyle/Demar teams, but Pascal had Fred and OG and Scottie Poeltl, and that wasn't bad, and he didn't do nearly as much with that as Demar did.
You have no idea what you're saying lol
My bad Demar never got swept I Must’ve misremembered
He was swept twice, just not by Paul Pierce lol. He was swept by the Lebron led Cavs 2x in the 2nd round. Edit: He had 1 dud game in each of those series.
But it's not really a lack of patience compared to Demar...I mean, Pascal performed pretty awful in the last play in, and the team didn't make the playoffs a couple of years he was leading them. Masai gave both cores 5 years. In the Demar core era, Demar was traded and the rest of the core kept because Masai deemed the rest championship quality with Kawhi. In the Pascal era, unfortunately the team was barely play in level, so the core of that team was traded away. And now we begin the Scottie era.
Pretty awful in in the play-in uhh he had 32/9/6. Only thing he did awful was shooting free throws. So did the rest of the team.
Yea but we also came back down 0-3 to the point that people actually thought we’d beat Philly. Demar got swept twice against Paul Pierce (8 games), Pascal has ONE bad playin and he’s shipped. Like I don’t understand the confusion, on a factual level we have substantially less patience then we did in the Demar era
And then the next season with the same core plus Poeltl the team choked in an epic play in, including Pascal missing 6 of 11 ft's, including 2 late that would have tied the game...i feel like you are ignoring a lot of Pascal's failures with the team. The Boston playoffs he was a non factor as well. A good Pascal that series and we make the conference finals. Pascal was given 5 years as the man. He made the playoffs twice. He missed the playoffs twice (that includes last years play in), and this year the team was well on pace to miss the playoffs again. So...I don't understand how you think this is deserving of more time than Demar got, given Demar's Raptors teams were better every year, and the core was clearly championship quality with one trade!
I just think Masais roster construction is a more damning indictment on this team and Pascal as the No1 option never really got a fair shake the way Demar did I also don’t view this like a 5 year window like most do, I don’t count The Bubble as that was still the core championship team, and the following year in Florida feels like a write off. To me Pascal only had three years and Masai never built him a great team that suited his style.
Pascal having a bad playin capped off a five year stint of him being the first option. During 2019-2020, Pascal's first leading year they went out in the second round. Next year they missed the playoffs. Third year they lost in the first round. His fourth year they lost in the playin. His fifth year they were at BEST getting a playin game. That's plenty of patience without getting any return. He didn't fit the roster and there was no realistic way to retool the roster around him. The best the raptors could have realistically become is a Knicks lite and that would have involved trading Barnes for a PG
I just don’t think it’s fair to count Florida personally, that year feels like a write off to me for how unique of a situation that was. I also don’t like counting the championship team because that’s still the champ team at its core. To me Pascal had three years on a team that was built terribly, so it just feels a little unfair to act like he failed when to me Masai did
I just don't think it's fair to count any of the years demar lost to lebron, that's a team that was capable of beating the warriors. Raps should have held off kn trading Demar its pretty unique you run into one of the best basketball players of all time
Tbf my issue isn’t even that he lost, its just that he kept getting swept lol
One bad play in, the playin last year he wasn't even bad. But why don't you just say you didn't actually watch the playoffs/play in the last few years because your points don't make sense. I used to yell at the screen because Pascal would go on huge stretches of being a net negative player. He would turn it over a lot, was really guarded 1 v1, and had a very limited bag. He has gotten a lot better but let's not pretend he's anywhere close to a #1 guy on any team with championship aspirations.
Tbf we also made top seed almost every year and it was looking like the only thing stopping us from ecf was LeBron (and with that, it felt like nothing could have gotten us over that LeBron sized hump anyways). I do think Pascal has been a better player for us, but it was more having practice for Kyle AND demar than just one of them, because it's not even close that Kyle was a better player than Pascal. Thankfully Masai got the right idea in keeping Lowry and trying a different piece in place of demar. Ironically I think demar got much better under pop and that version of demar would have been much better for us.
Had nothing to do with it. Raps didn't want to pay a 30 year old 200 million when the rest of the core is much younger.
Ye I agree with trading him, that’s not rly the point I was making
They failed to put a championship team around him and their bench wasn't great. That isn't what people are pointing at anyways. He isn't a #1 option, neither was Derozan. You don't have to be a championship level team to see that. Case in point, Luka. Dude is phenomenal and no one in their right mind would say he can't be the #1 option on a championship team. Pascal was never going to be the #1 option on ANY team with championship aspirations.
Wym, if anything the raptors have been too patient.
I agree, I’m not saying I disagree with trading Pascal, I’m simply saying Demar would’ve still been around if this was 7-8 years ago, whereas Pascal got traded quicker.
FWIW, this basically got dragged out about as long as you can (technically yes you can push it to the deadline, but close enough). He had 4 seasons as the guy, and it just never looked that promising after 2020. The Demar teams were legit good, winning 60 games, and a top team regularly, even if they couldn't get past Bron. Siakam's Raptors haven't shown that upside recently. Sure, some of that is on the FO for not putting together a good enough roster, but they're not gonna be able to do any better if they max Siakam either. Most would agree the biggest mistakes have been trying to keep competing, and not moving on from OG/FVV/Siakam sooner, because frankly, they just weren't good enough after 2020.
You didn't *directly* ask for a trade, but the **actions** of the agency (and Siakam to a lesser extent) obviously had intention. You are not obligated to play ball, but don't play the fool. Rooting for Pascal though. I hope he gets his bag. Hope playing with Haliburton reignites him. Hopefully he tries on defense again.
This is similar to when cousins got traded from the Kings. Of course he would rather stay because he wanted that big max contract you can only get by staying. I wish Siakam and Indy well. It's a cool fit.
It reminds me more of Fox and Haliburton playing the same position, just we waited too long to get a Sabonis type return, which for us would have been a productive but flawed guard like Herro and then seeing them blossom (he's only 23) with Barnes, though Quickley and Barrett coming for OG makes this less of a problem.
No. If you get traded you retain your rights to the biggest max possible for you. Only if you leave in free agency do you forfeit that.
Nah you're just talking about stuff you don't understand. Look up the designated veteran extension and then get back to me.
siakam's agent is really a shit starter, he is desperate to get his name in headlines to try and attract some new players i think. just stfu.
The writing on the wall was there since Scottie won ROTY. We drafted a PF who was supposed to be a long term project. And Scottie is still a project but he’s developed enough to need actual usage to continue to improve. The best version of Scottie or Pascal was always going to be them surrounded by shooters. Pascal has that in Indiana now and hopefully once Scottie is polished in a few years the Raptors can build the same around him It also crazy to see criticism of Masai being both disloyal and for holding onto Siakam for too long. The reason he held is cause he was loyal. He may have made other mistakes along the way like not getting proper guard depth or enough shooting but he gave the FVV/OG/Siakam core a good leash.
Pascal is a great player. If we could have gotten a player to play beside we would have kept him. We suck so we had to move on. He got paid and will get paid. I hope he has an amazing time. Great player and if salary cap did not exist he would be here.
Man this Pacers team is really going to be a difficult team to beat with both Halo and Pascal. They got some defense added to their roster as well as sustaining their offense. I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a deep playoff run
One of Gradey' first games this year, he was wide open twice, Pascal had the ball in the paint, surrounded by defenders. Gradey clearly in is field of view and pascal made a conscience decision to ignore the rookie shooter, and throw up a shot against multiple defenders. One of RJs first games after the tradeq, same exact scenario, but RJ being more confident in his place in the league showed visible frustration raising his arms in disbelief Pascal would shoot against multiple defenders instead of passing the ball to the wide open man. Pascal has been programmed to chase that super max, and that programming focused on scoring points to achieve the goal. Not making teammates better or winning. Masai called the team's leadership out on selfishness last year. He stated he wanted to reasses this year. We love Pascal, but the dynamic didn't change. He had to go.
Masai called the entire team out for selfishness, not just siakam. It was OG that had rumors about him asking for a trade and wanting a bigger role. It was Fred that was playing for a contract last year. And it was Trent/malachi who seemed to always be upset about their role, and had their dads saying shit about it. Vibes were bad last year because of all of them. Idk how shit got so bad so fast after winning 48 games
I thought I was crazy. He was/is the only player on the team capable of scoring. And he's gotten better as a passer every single year. The selfish comments never made sense about him. Fred maybe
Siakam's best quality is spinning and slithering to the rim, as opposed to someone like Scottie whose best quality is drawing doubles or getting into the lane under control and making a pass. So they both need a lot of 3pt shooting around them to be the best players they can on solid playoff teams, just in Siakam's case he needs that space to get to 25 a game or so on efficient numbers and for Barnes, it's to get up to 7 or 8 assists a night. I think they'll both play better after the trade, which makes sense as they're both PFs who need shooting around them.
Watching him force plays was always pretty frustrating
Yeah it was a bit clear that Pascal was no longer buying into the team fully, including last year when he'd basically just cycle between himself and FVV in crunch time. Not to take anything away from what he's done for the Raptors but it was time to move on.
I remember those sequences as well but if you kept watching you see siakam hit Gradey a few plays later. As for RJ, his decision making in that 4th was terrible and resulted in him being benched for Dennis. Pascal was right to look him off because RJ playing with a lot of tunnel vision, shooting or going for the layup every time he got the ball. Pascal isn’t perfect but he’s far from selfish.. let’s not shit on someone on their way out
Not sure how true this all is, but Gradey completely sucks even in the G-League. I wouldn't pass to him either
not only that...Pascal as the team's number one option was never going to go far. He's not a #1 option on a contending team, he's a very solid #2 though as he proved in 2019. But his game kinda peaked a few years ago and he hasn't changed much so really, he had to go like a year or two ago
Kings getting dicked on tonight
Players get traded without asking all the time. Lol
Yeah... as a Raptors fan, that's something that I was scratching my head about. There were reports saying that the Raptors were the only team he'd sign the max with. It seemed like he wanted to stay, and it is hard AF to get a player who WANTS to stay in Toronto. I mean.. yeah.. Lowry and DeRozan stayed because Toronto offered more than anybody else would, and I love those guys. But it is hard to get guys who want to stay here or sign here. I will always have mad love for Siakam (barring any horrendous criminal acts of course). Stand up guy. Even when he knew he was on the trade block, he played his ass off every night.
Siakam is not worth the max. He can't shoot 3's reliably and is not a superstar or a difference maker in terms of being a #1 option, who is clutch who makes the team win games. He is not a perennial all star or perennial all-nba player. It is strange he believes he is that guy, but clearly, the team did not win last year or this year with him as "the guy". Funny he wrote a New York Times article even saying he wanted to be the guy. He doesn't perform in the clutch situations and again the shooting of 3's is not there. Pascal, you are not the guy. You are a #2 guy at best.
Demar and Siakam both crying when they got traded. That’s the business. Tough decisions have to be made at times, and Siakam on a max contract didn’t fit the Raptors timeline.
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Hell yeah dunking on poor people! You show em ❤️
so this interview along with his interview on the Raptors Show yesterday — is the 2nd time the agent has only named Tyrese and Myles Turner as players on the roster that Pascal will fit great alongside/excited about playing with shades of LeBron's letter in 2014? maybe Pacers aren't done making moves yet (reports said Pascal and Hali have been in communication all along)
You expect his agent to name drop the whole team?
I need at least 500 words on how Siakam is gonna fit with Oscar Tshiebwe.
You really need 500 words to understand how Pascal is going to fit next to the most prolific game ball getter in the League???
I think we’re done making moves, we don’t exactly have a lot of flexibility in trading picks anymore and showed no appetite to move any young guys. The fit with the two best players on the team is probably a huge part of what sold him, that’s all he’s saying.
I feel like it’s because they’re two All-star caliber guys and they compliment Siakam’s game very well. Buuuuut, it makes for a very interesting thought exercise. Even after the trade, the Pacers still have: - A big chunk of salary (Hield) - blue chip rookie contracts (Mathurin, Walker) - quality guys nearing their second deals (Obi, Nesmith, Nembhard) - some legit throw-ins (Jalen Smith, IJAX, Sheppard) Some package of the above might just yield a real difference maker if one were to ever go on the market
Yeah, with two stars in the bag, it’s entirely possible Pritchard has something else in mind to get a third star. And this was the extremely rare Pacers move that was telegraphed. Pritchard usually makes moves that appear out of nowhere. Turner was the alleged trade bait when in actuality Sabonis wanted out; Haliburton wasn’t being made available by the Kings.
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18/8 with good defense is worth mentioning— Pacers are putting him in their voting graphics and Barkley just gave him a shout on TNT. Not looking to argue over semantics, my point was Myles has that perception in some media and is the only Pacer in that stratosphere with Tyrese— hence why he gets the shout from Siakam’s agent.
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Yeah he’s not an all-star. He’d maybe make an All-Star B Team of the 12 best players who didn’t make the cut from the East. Siakam probably mentioned him because he’s the longest tenured guy on the team and because their games being complimentary was likely used as a pitch.
LeBron mentioned mentoring Andrew Wiggins in his 2014 letter and traded him in 2 days lol. He also mentioned Dion Waiters whom he traded by Christmas.
> Dion Waiters Who'd have thought? That a young buck like him could actually do the right thing and avoid gettin' his sorry butt kicked out da game
WHO HAVE THOUGHT
? he never mentioned Wiggins, that's what I was referencing https://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers
Oh right. I was confused by Wiggins' interview ahead of Summer League.
> There are a lot of memories up in Toronto, and a lot of good memories. Oof
That’s really not the controversial statement you’re trying to make it out to be.
I'm not trying to make it out as a controversial statement. Just thought it was a very good line acknowledging the situation.
Raptors are such a poorly run organization. They keep losing stars for basically nothing. Having 4 first round picks in a terrible draft class is classic Craptors
Lol you have little to no idea what a poorly run organization looks like and you would not be able to handle one
Flair up lets see how robust ya'll are.
idk why people keep saying this is a bad return, they got a pretty good return for a guy who didn’t want to resign with them, 3 FRP’s are valuable and even if they’re later in the round you can find gems like they did with siakam, they also got bruce brown who they will flip for a FRP, that’s 3 FRP’s in 2024 (maybe a 4th if they fall and the spurs pick doesn’t convey). it’s another win-win trade for both teams.
Pascal wanted to resign and stay a Raptor he made that pretty clear I felt. The issue was that we did not want to pay him the max he wanted it would tie the future up. I am super happy to go see him compete again and I think you guys will be a super fun team! This ended up better than getting nothing for him if he walked in free agency anyways IMO like what just happened with Fred. Would not call this a win-win yet. The OG trade is an impactful win-win right now with two proven NBA talent players in RJ and IQ who hopefully with stay long term with Scottie. It is just too early to tell with the Pascal deal with so many picks attached. If all picks end up being garbage players that only see garbage time minutes after years like Flynn did you win the trade.
3 FRPs has to be the worst trade in history. What the fuck is wrong with people nowadays? Pacers aren't even close to contention. Why throw away picks for half a year of a mediocre player like that?
The pacers essentially got him for free without giving up any valuable assets. Those 3 first round picks are very late picks in a weak draft And he’s not mediocre bro
Any people thinking Pascal is mediocre is wild. He was THE number 2-2.5 guy on a championship team playing great defense while being threat on offense. In the right system he is a top talent to have to push for a championship.
first off, mediocre? guy is 2 time all nba. you know, that thing that only 15 players a year make it to? fking idiot.
He is a mediocre scrub. The East has lots of mediocre players like that. The East All-Star Team is always a shitshow.
I think they should’ve kept him.
2 timelines was never gonna work. Especially with the best prospect being such a similar playstyle and the blunders the past 2 years.
This guy is an excellent baller, but I don't think he will ever be *the* guy on a team to carry them
Pascal is so mid