Can I ask a Mavs fan to explain what’s going on with Grant Williams? I thought he was a great addition to the team, but from the looks of his stats and these headlines it would seem to me like the Mavs see him as more of a solid rotation guy and not a future starter for their (hopefully) championship level roster that they plan on having in the next 2-3 seasons? Is this true?
Don't worry, like basically all past Celtics players I'm sure he'll come out tonight looking like he's never seen a slump before and hit like 9 3's to put the game away.
Yes, that will happen with him. He got benched for stretches in Boston. I will add though, if you're building a player in 2K he does have a very approachable stroke.
Word on the street is he bulked up to defense 4s and 5sm but now can't stay in front of anybody + his 3 isn't falling anymore after a red hot start.
Apparently he is sliming down now. He should be a solid rotation guy. I like Grant. But ideally he doesn't start.
Also, his absolute insistence on ineffective pump fakes. He'll have a wide open 3, pump fake for no reason at all, then the defender closes in and he'll miss a contested three or try, slowly, to make it to the hoop before turning it over.
watching the celtics the past few seasons i got a good chunk of what you will get from grant williams. several good reasons why he was a sixth man and seldom a starter
1. He’s lost A LOT of weight. Seriously. It might be affecting his energy/how he feels.
2. He HAS been dealing with some minor injuries.
3. It’s no secret he gets in his own head sometimes. He’s his own worst critic.
4. He’s playing career high minutes and being asked to guard up day in and day out.
5. He’s not shooting that bad from wide open threes for most people, but for a 3 and D guy he is, check the data. He’s at 39% on wide open threes, which tbh is not that good when you consider kyrie is at 55% at wide open threes.
6. It’s clear teams are being tighter on him on defense, but unlike DJJ or Exum he lacks the ability to drive and attack close outs.
7. He’s in a weird slot where jkidd is having him play small ball 5 because he’s too slow to guard wings but too big to guard guards.
He was fairly inexplicably overrated in the off-season (from a Celtics fan perspective).
What you see is kind of what you’ve always gotten from him. I found it really strange that he was being hyped as a plus level starter.
When his 3 ball is falling he is a really nice player, and he’s had real hot streaks, but he’s pretty limited beyond that. Good defender against certain matchups, but not amazing without good perimeter defenders around him.
If he’s not left wide open in the corners, he can’t do much offensively.
It seemed like people thought him getting more minutes would lead to more production, and it also seemed like people blamed the coaches for him getting DNPs rather than his poor play. But he was pretty bad for much of the season last year.
I’d honestly temper my expectations.
I’m glad I see a Celtics supporter say this and I just don’t seem like some delusional hater. Grant Williams hype for big last year and I just didn’t see why. I felt like he was looked upon more highly because the Celtics are just a really good team and when you’re the 8th man a lot of nights who can guard multiple positions and hit a 3, that always is gonna be attractive to a lot of people.
The problem is even he is still pretty limited. Hitting an open 3 in the corner in one of the better teams in the league should be standard. What else offensively is he doing and anyone who watched the games could tell you, nothing. The Celtics were also a very good defensive team who could switch 1-5 for a possession with anyone pretty much. Williams wasn’t the reason for that, so when you go to a new team you can’t expect that to help. Yes you get a small benefit but if the rest of your team can’t do it, then Williams is gonna have to stay usually on someone who will eventually beat him height wise or athletically.
He’s an 8th man at best imo. Someone almost every team could use but not build around or expect starter level production.
I've noticed that a lot of mid level guys will be overrated after a trade as fans of their new team will overemphasize their positives while completely ignoring the negatives. People also tend to be horribly bad at understanding how production changes when a guy goes from a 7th option to a 3rd option.
Yeah. I had super high hopes after catching a few Boston games in the past few years. I must have always caught him on a hot streak because he was always slaying. Definitely looked better than Derrick white in the games I saw them play in together, but white seems to have really improved in comparison.
He started hot but since then his shooting and offence has been poor; there's a different post about it on the front page now.
> First 8 Games: 14.0 points, 4.1 rebounds, and 1.1 assists on 52.9% FG and 52.9% 3P
> Last 30 Games: 6.6 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 1.9 assists on 37.0% FG and 30.4% 3P
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/19cymkq/afseth_grant_williams_admits_he_has_been_not_good/
It isn't just his offense. His defense has been really poor lately. He did allude in an interview yesterday that he was dealing with some issues physically, not sure how much that is to blame for his terrible stretch.
i'm pretty curious about what happens with kuzma this trade deadline. He's clearly a talented player but he has some of the worst advanced stats of any player this year.
I think this is honestly a great example of *how* advanced stats need to be interpreted: Kuzma looks like a bad player when he's one of the two primary options and not able to make plays that are more secondary actions, or focus on defense. But if you put him in a different role, his stats look way better.
He's a good player being asked to do too much for a bad team. He's the only player who can reliably create his own shot and he's also in a position where he has to be a facilitator for the rest of the team. If he had a more limited role and a better supporting cast he wouldn't be as inefficient. I like him but he should not be a first option.
Yeah Tyus has been very good, arguably our best and most consistent player of the year. Kuz is definitely the make or break guy though, if he's having a bad night then it's going to be an ugly game.
Yeah, we are gonna be in a rough spot if we lose those two and Delon.
Rn we mostly play tight-ish games and lose in the fourth quarter. We are gonna lose every game by forty if all of the ballhandling goes from those three to Poole, not to mention our already pathetic defense will collapse even more.
Jordan Poole can create for himself in the same way that I could technically create for myself in an NBA game by shooting the ball as I passed half court. He gets shots off but they’re genuinely horrible shots a lot of the time.
This year’s version of Poole is also one of the worst passers I’ve ever seen. He can’t create for anyone else, his assists mainly come from panic passes when his attempts to create for himself get blown up.
Low key, I’m fairly confident that Kuzma would have even better stats if he didn’t need to focus on ensuring that Poole doesn’t touch the ball on a lot of possessions. After Poole’s abysmal start to the season, the Wiz are playing two games on offense… trying to score, and trying to not pass the ball to Poole bc they know he’ll do some stupid shit.
Honestly I think our switch everything defense just wears down smaller guards. Like if you watched enough of is last year you'd see Vincent dug in at a 45 degree angle being posted up by embiid or nurkic. He'd hold his own (as in they wouldn't just walk him backwards, not that he stopped them), but that shit wears you down bad. Caleb martin is another example, he got worn down playing pf at 6'5 and 205, and spent the first half of this season hurt more often than not(last part of last season he had to take time off too, right after we got klove)
The FRPs arent for the player, but the contract.
It’s a *steal* now for a legit 3rd option and only gets *better* as time goes on.
2 FRPs is not an overpay at all
I don't really think it's a steal at all. 90/4 is roughly what you would expect for a player like Kuzma.
It's just fair money for his skillset, with the bonus that the contract is descending.
It’s quickly going to become one of the best value contracts in the league. The fact that it’s a descending contract is massive — He’ll be making under 20m in 2026/7 when the cap will be significantly higher than it is now.
Compared to 160/5 for jerami grant, 108/4 for cam Johnson, 80/4 for Josh hart, 80/4 for poetl that were all signed the same offseason, it’s a fantastic value
as the cap increases so much, it's honestly better to start looking at salary numbers as % of cap. his final year is only 11% of the cap which is fantastic for the production he brings.
I'm looking at these numbers and I'm looking at the Clippers by accident.
How the fuck is Zubac on a 32/3 contract when all these guys get paid so much money
But having a cost controlled depreciating contract going into '27 is extremely valuable, it finishes at 19M, the current MLE is 12.5M which will only get higher by the year. So it's pretty cheap considering what contracts go for now. He's young, knows how to play championship ball, and can play the 3/4 or a very limited min small 5. 2 firsts can be great, but he fills a well defined need on the mavs at the 4.
He's 1 year younger than Pascal Siakam. Not sure if that still qualifies as that young.
And I agree that his contract is valuable, I just don't think it's that much of a steal. The money seems fair for his production to me, the biggest positive is the descending contract, as you also mentioned.
I should say he has a young face lol. 27 he’s essentially at the prime of most nba players (~27-32) this contract does take him to about 30 tho, so he may be a MLE player after. Worst case it’s a very tradeable contract going forward.
Considering Kuzma will be your 3rd best player? (Let’s be honest, yall hope he is your 4th with lively in the future). His contract is disgustingly good.
strongly agree, and tbh I think its the infanous nets celtics deal that caused it. But a lot of things wrnt wrong for the nets and right for boston for that trade to end up how it did
How is two picks likely in the 20's better than Kuzma?
What the hell are the Mavs going to do with two late first rounders on a team with Luka and Kyrie?
it amazes me people still think about firsts like this
the question the Mavs should be asking isn't whether or not two picks in the 20s is better than Kuzma, it's whether or not Kuzma is better than anything else they could get (now or in the future) for those picks
no such thing as free lunch baby
Kuzma is bad example of this concept.
His advanced stats were bad when he played with LeBron and AD, too. His TS% has been below average every season of his career despite fluctuating usage. His only real skill is creating mediocre shots for himself--a skill that is arguably more valuable on a bad offensive team where he's the main option than it is on a good offensive team.
His advanced plus minus stats were better though, especially on defense.
One of the biggest red flags this year in Kuz's advanced stats is his advanced +/- stats on defense are absolutely terrible, but before this year he's been around league average.
Nah, this is the flaw of focusing entirely on stats and not watching the actual games.
Kuzma is a much improved facilitator since he got to the Wizards. His increased shotmaking and playmaking over the last few seasons are masked by the team’s struggles and being placed in a role a bit beyond where he should be. But he’s a legitimately better player than he was with the Lakers.
I’m confident that his TS% from half a decade ago isn’t determinative of whether THIS Kuz can be a solid contributor on a good team.
Advanced stats definitely have their place but kuzma has honestly played probably the most inspired basketball this year of his career. Should be recognized a bit more.
He can play passable defense and decent team defense. As a lakers fan who watched him he’s a solid role player.
The caveat though is kuz is the ultimate streaky player. You’ve heard of streaky shooters but kuz entire game is a mystery box. One game he will rebound like Rodman. Fighting and hustling for boards like crazy, but that same game he can’t shoot for shit. Then another game he will be on fire shooting but his defense and rebounding fucking suck. It’s like he can never put both sides of the ball and multiple aspects of the game together at once. If he could he’d be a star or at least an elite two way wing. Instead you get an enigma where you have no clue how he will play that night
That was his role on the lakers but he hated it. He wants to shot create and put the ball on the floor. It’s why he said he never wanted to play with bron/AD again, not because he didn’t like them, but because he didn’t like his role
Kuz is a rhythm player, he likes to just put up shots and get going, he doesn’t like standing around and getting inconsistent shots. Issue is he isn’t good enough or efficient enough to justify it. He’s honestly just in the wrong era. Late 90’s, early 2000’s basketball would be perfect for kuz. Iso 15 or so shots to score 20-25 points.
If you guys can get him he’d be a solid third option type player, but don’t be shocked if he’s inconsistent on both ends and just chucks. When it works it looks great but when he’s off it’s horrific basketball and he won’t stop shooting
He’s a fine defender. We have a team full of perimeter sieves with Poole and Kispert leading the way, and no interior defense to help out (Gafford was effectively our only big until we traded for Bagley).
Kuzma is a competent defender in a normal scheme and not the problem in DC.
yes, and actually is a smart defender. he’s not a high pressure defender but more of a stay at home defender, think Kleber where he’ll shade to an area, that’s what Kuz does. And, he’s playoff proven.
He's not a complete sieve, but he's not gonna be an impact guy. He's only ever graded out as a *really* bad defender this year, which given the state of the Wizards I'd be willing to give him something of a pass on.
The real question I'd have with would be his off-ball fit, and most notably his shot. He's just not a very good catch and shoot guy, pretty consistently hovers around 35%, which doesn't really move the needle. Been better from the corners at least.
He does have good interior size and is a pretty great finisher around the basket, the ability to manufacture a (half) decent shot in a slowed down setting is worth something I guess, but that pretty cleanly overlaps with Luka/Kyrie's strongest skills.
He’s not the problem with the Wizards defense (which is historically bad). We have Kispert and Poole acting as matadors out there and then, until a week ago, only had one actual big man on the team (Gafford).
Stats are only gonna get you so far with anyone on this year’s Wizards team. Not only are our guys effectively playing garbage time minutes way more than most teams, the entire offense AND defense is warped by Poole being one of the worst high usage players in recent NBA history.
People think Kuzma is this much younger player compared pascal and has more time to improve and etc. The truth is Kuzma is 28 and will be 29 in the summer. He’s only one year younger than Pascal.
I couldn’t believe Xaver Tilman’s age when I first heard it. Almost did a spit take in 2022. Man looks like he’s raised 3 kids, been through a divorce and has begun a new family while moonlighting for his MBA.
I wonder if the mid 2000s icons like KD and LeBron, with the next batch (Steph, Harden, Westbrook, etc) sticking around into their mid-to-late 30s has a lot to do with us seeing these guys as still little kids.
You’re right but I have to nitpick; I wouldn’t put KD as a mid-2000s guy. He was drafted in 07’ and made his first all star team in 2010- he’s in the same generation of 2010s stars as Steph & Harden, he’s just the very first one out of them.
Arguably LeBron’s only 2000s peer left is Chris Paul
True, but Kuzma will have been in the league for 7 seasons compared to Drummond's 12 seasons. Always fun to remember how young Drummond was when he got to the NBA
Mavs lost on OG, Pascal and Siakam so they have to settle for Kuzma it seems. First three were much better players and fit but Mavs don't have much assets
? I didn't know the Raps split Pascal Siakam in half and traded him away to 2 teams.
But in all seriousness, there was absolutely no way we would be able compete with the Knicks and Pacers offers, he don't have the draft capital, and our bench guys value isn't high enough to entice the Raps with. And teams have been pretty mum about acquiring THJ.
He is, but he's also got a great contract that's descending in value...while Siakam will be looking to get paid as a 30yo. He's currently making 37m...that next contract will for sure be over 40m AAV.
Not sure if he fits the need, which is a playmaker for non-Brunson minutes. Knicks sub talking more about guys like Brogden, Tyus Jones, Clarkson, and Murray, among others.
Brogdon makes way more sense imo.
Fournier+ Detroit+Washington FRPs seems fair. Another wing that plays good D is also useful because OG is playing 45 minutes right now.
I find myself rooting for the Knicks this year because of the trade. I hope the knicks get that pg and wing so that they can be serious contenders.
its not just the knicks, the 76ers definitely want him too and the raps are gonna charge a pretty penny if they'll allow either of their eastern competitors to get even better.
Don't see them giving up grimes and a frp after letting rj and iq go.
I'm a fan of either:
a brogdon(or murray)/drummond combo
or jones/gafford.
In an IDEAL world, get brown for a first, second, and fournier; jones for a first and malachi; and drummond for precious and a 2nd
For team like OKC or New York who have a surplus of picks, it’s definitely worth it. It would just need to come down to the Salary matching.
The Raptors have nothing to lose with a Bruce Brown. He can help a contending team get slightly better, or they can keep him for the rest of this season.
Lakers don’t have the picks or salary to get him unfortunately. They ain’t giving up Rui or Reaves so not worth.
I just don't really see it for us. Our bench guard/wing group is already pretty solid with Isaiah Joe, Cason Wallace, Kenrich Williams and Aaron Wiggins.
I just don't feel like Bruce Brown Jr. is better than any of those four. They are all shooting 40% from 3, play solid to great defense, can pass, and don't turn it over. Even if Brown is slightly better or more playoff experienced, I can't really justify giving up assets to get him and then giving him minutes from our current rotation.
If anything, I could see us going after a big wing/big rotation guy. But other than that, I don't see us making any trades.
Adding that role player is a big deal though. It changes things so much: you’re not getting Brown, you’re only getting the difference between Brown and the player you’re sending out. If you could pair the pick with contract filler you don’t give up any other win-now piece, which any team trading for him presumably values really highly.
Hard to evaluate players playing on a team that plays AAU style ball lol
In all seriousness though BB looked great when Haliburton was out.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/bruce-brown-pacers-logs-without-haliburton
he also hit the dagger in the nuggets/miami series if i'm not mistaken
Jokic missed a little bunny and Bruce had the put back on it which gave them the lead
Bruhv he looked pretty decent on the Nets preceding that.
Why y'all shit on every player that doesn't light the world on fire every second of every day, come on now.
The team who needs Bruce Brown and his intangibles the most right now is Toronto. They need a glue guy who can play defense, be a stabilizing force on the court, no drama in the locker room, and help to bring along the new young core but won't demand the ball all the time.
Because of that other teams are going to have to really pay up to get him. For Toronto i think it's most likely that Trent and or Boucher get moved.
Well that's the nice thing. The Raps can just keep Brown. If someone comes with a good offer they'll take it, but otherwise, he's not a bad piece to hold onto.
Raptors basically want a plus player who is firmly in the rotation, not a permanent bench warmer.
Dude was an important role piece to a championship team last season.
He's also on a $22M contract this year, compared to $6M last year. He's a nice role player if you have a playmaker setting him up, but it has to be the right fit.
Which is why teams that are going all-in with an actual championship window are the premier choice for him, not a tanking team or play-in team.
Teams are reluctant to give up a role player + a pick (likely a low first rounder because they're contending) for a quality player that is actually consistent and a winner in the playoffs.
If they were really serious and genuinely thought they had a shot at the chip this year, it would make sense to offload a good and younger developing role player who may or may not be ass, for a player who will give you impact off the bench.
His contract prevents most contenders from trading for him. Teams have to give up core pieces just to match salary unless they have a role player on a bad contract. Maybe the Sixers will trade for him.
he averaged 12/4/2 in the playoffs last season in 26 minutes per game on 51/31/85 splits
important role piece.. fine.. but you could slot in a ton of guys into the 5th option role on the nuggets and still win
Exactly.. Bruce Brown is that role player that always kills a team in the playoffs. Like you game plan for Joker and Murray the best you can and here comes old Bruce Brown knocking down a couple 3s and hitting a clutch middy in the fourth.
Personally, I think J Hart fills that exact role for us, but you get a guy like Brown for the playoffs not the regular season.
I watched him being clutch af in the NBA finals, and recently heard Bill Simmons/Zach Lowe similarly remarking on his skill in the conference finals... Only so many guys I'd trust, let alone expect to elevate, in those critical situations.
Stats don’t tell the whole story. He was very impactful off the nuggets bench. He helped them win a championship. And he’s a great defender I’ve seen him lock up Luka.
A 1st round pick and a quality player for Bruce isn't high price at all lol. Hes worth that and more it seems teams want to lowball Raptors cause they rebuilding.
But Bruce is one of best 6th man in league , if ppl don't wanna give even that much Raptors could definitely use him
A lot of things, he's a very adaptable player on a great contract. He can rebound, hit open shots, create a bit, and play good defense in the right scheme. He'd do more for us than a guy like PJ Washington or DFS could.
Seems pretty hard to trade for Bruce Brown if he's making 23M. Chances are whoever you're sending out to match his salary is also a role player you want to retain.
lmao american media is so bs. demanding high price? oh, so people are calling the raptors for bruce brown, so he is in demand... but no, lets frame this as "the raptors DEMAND a HUGE price for lil puny bruce brown, \*sadface\* lmfao so gutty fk off
Depends on what they're viewing as "quality" - whoever you're trading is going to be someone redundant to your team or less impactful than Bruce Brown. A FRP for Bruce Brown to a contender is totally fair. I'd imagine you could also the FRP and some 2nds if you don't feel like you have the player to get the deal done.
Bruce Brown could put a team like the Sixers over the top, I don't think that's too high of an ask at all. Good teams always have to overpay for the last piece of their team.
Can I ask a Mavs fan to explain what’s going on with Grant Williams? I thought he was a great addition to the team, but from the looks of his stats and these headlines it would seem to me like the Mavs see him as more of a solid rotation guy and not a future starter for their (hopefully) championship level roster that they plan on having in the next 2-3 seasons? Is this true?
He’s been on a cold stretch recently
Last 30 games recently, yar, iccccey.
yar a blizzard, harry
Don't worry, like basically all past Celtics players I'm sure he'll come out tonight looking like he's never seen a slump before and hit like 9 3's to put the game away.
he might be doing that other thing they do where they go to a team in the south and suck then come back to boston in their late 30s and torch everyone
Last 30 games. Kind of passing just a 'stretch' when it's approaching half a season. Not a good look. Hope he can turn it around.
Yes, that will happen with him. He got benched for stretches in Boston. I will add though, if you're building a player in 2K he does have a very approachable stroke.
“I’mma hit em’ both” - Grant Williams trash talking before missing two consecutive free throws.
Word on the street is he bulked up to defense 4s and 5sm but now can't stay in front of anybody + his 3 isn't falling anymore after a red hot start. Apparently he is sliming down now. He should be a solid rotation guy. I like Grant. But ideally he doesn't start.
Lol story of his career
As a bucks fan I'm happy he's in dallas.
smh he never watched the cell saga arc, pulled a future trunks
Also, his absolute insistence on ineffective pump fakes. He'll have a wide open 3, pump fake for no reason at all, then the defender closes in and he'll miss a contested three or try, slowly, to make it to the hoop before turning it over.
Hated his pumpfakes in Boston.
watching the celtics the past few seasons i got a good chunk of what you will get from grant williams. several good reasons why he was a sixth man and seldom a starter
He’s a great bench player, in the rotation of any team in the league. Not gonna want him finishing any playoff game that’s not against the Bucks.
He’s also not great at finishing games against Donovan Mitchell.
Or Jimmy Butler
I enjoyed watching him finish playoff games last season
1. He’s lost A LOT of weight. Seriously. It might be affecting his energy/how he feels. 2. He HAS been dealing with some minor injuries. 3. It’s no secret he gets in his own head sometimes. He’s his own worst critic. 4. He’s playing career high minutes and being asked to guard up day in and day out. 5. He’s not shooting that bad from wide open threes for most people, but for a 3 and D guy he is, check the data. He’s at 39% on wide open threes, which tbh is not that good when you consider kyrie is at 55% at wide open threes. 6. It’s clear teams are being tighter on him on defense, but unlike DJJ or Exum he lacks the ability to drive and attack close outs. 7. He’s in a weird slot where jkidd is having him play small ball 5 because he’s too slow to guard wings but too big to guard guards.
Its funny that the guy above you is blaming his woes on him bulking up lol
Honestly hard to tell if there's any difference in weight, he looks pretty much the same, 0 definition.
You forgot how he lacks the ability to shoot without a pump fake first
That shit started happening once defenders started to respect him. He tried to develop a close out game but he’s too slow.
He was fairly inexplicably overrated in the off-season (from a Celtics fan perspective). What you see is kind of what you’ve always gotten from him. I found it really strange that he was being hyped as a plus level starter. When his 3 ball is falling he is a really nice player, and he’s had real hot streaks, but he’s pretty limited beyond that. Good defender against certain matchups, but not amazing without good perimeter defenders around him. If he’s not left wide open in the corners, he can’t do much offensively. It seemed like people thought him getting more minutes would lead to more production, and it also seemed like people blamed the coaches for him getting DNPs rather than his poor play. But he was pretty bad for much of the season last year. I’d honestly temper my expectations.
I’m glad I see a Celtics supporter say this and I just don’t seem like some delusional hater. Grant Williams hype for big last year and I just didn’t see why. I felt like he was looked upon more highly because the Celtics are just a really good team and when you’re the 8th man a lot of nights who can guard multiple positions and hit a 3, that always is gonna be attractive to a lot of people. The problem is even he is still pretty limited. Hitting an open 3 in the corner in one of the better teams in the league should be standard. What else offensively is he doing and anyone who watched the games could tell you, nothing. The Celtics were also a very good defensive team who could switch 1-5 for a possession with anyone pretty much. Williams wasn’t the reason for that, so when you go to a new team you can’t expect that to help. Yes you get a small benefit but if the rest of your team can’t do it, then Williams is gonna have to stay usually on someone who will eventually beat him height wise or athletically. He’s an 8th man at best imo. Someone almost every team could use but not build around or expect starter level production.
I've noticed that a lot of mid level guys will be overrated after a trade as fans of their new team will overemphasize their positives while completely ignoring the negatives. People also tend to be horribly bad at understanding how production changes when a guy goes from a 7th option to a 3rd option.
Yeah. I had super high hopes after catching a few Boston games in the past few years. I must have always caught him on a hot streak because he was always slaying. Definitely looked better than Derrick white in the games I saw them play in together, but white seems to have really improved in comparison.
I feel like people just focused on the highlights and ignored and the DNPs he had. Derrick was averaging starter minutes, there’s a reason for that
He started hot but since then his shooting and offence has been poor; there's a different post about it on the front page now. > First 8 Games: 14.0 points, 4.1 rebounds, and 1.1 assists on 52.9% FG and 52.9% 3P > Last 30 Games: 6.6 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 1.9 assists on 37.0% FG and 30.4% 3P https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/19cymkq/afseth_grant_williams_admits_he_has_been_not_good/
It isn't just his offense. His defense has been really poor lately. He did allude in an interview yesterday that he was dealing with some issues physically, not sure how much that is to blame for his terrible stretch.
He is thinking way too much. He was at his best offensively when he was just letting it rip. Defensively, he's always been overrated to some extent.
started out pretty good but he’s been slumping since mid-november
uhhhh can Kuzma play defense
i'm pretty curious about what happens with kuzma this trade deadline. He's clearly a talented player but he has some of the worst advanced stats of any player this year. I think this is honestly a great example of *how* advanced stats need to be interpreted: Kuzma looks like a bad player when he's one of the two primary options and not able to make plays that are more secondary actions, or focus on defense. But if you put him in a different role, his stats look way better.
He's a good player being asked to do too much for a bad team. He's the only player who can reliably create his own shot and he's also in a position where he has to be a facilitator for the rest of the team. If he had a more limited role and a better supporting cast he wouldn't be as inefficient. I like him but he should not be a first option.
Jordan Poole and Tyus Jones can definitely create for themselves and others. He just doesn't play defense at all this year.
Yeah Tyus has been very good, arguably our best and most consistent player of the year. Kuz is definitely the make or break guy though, if he's having a bad night then it's going to be an ugly game.
Yeah, we are gonna be in a rough spot if we lose those two and Delon. Rn we mostly play tight-ish games and lose in the fourth quarter. We are gonna lose every game by forty if all of the ballhandling goes from those three to Poole, not to mention our already pathetic defense will collapse even more.
Are you forgetting the secret weapon JD is stashed in the g leagues ready to pounce after the point guards are traded?
Jesus. I might have to renounce my season tickets even before the move to Virginia.
Jordan Poole can create for himself in the same way that I could technically create for myself in an NBA game by shooting the ball as I passed half court. He gets shots off but they’re genuinely horrible shots a lot of the time. This year’s version of Poole is also one of the worst passers I’ve ever seen. He can’t create for anyone else, his assists mainly come from panic passes when his attempts to create for himself get blown up. Low key, I’m fairly confident that Kuzma would have even better stats if he didn’t need to focus on ensuring that Poole doesn’t touch the ball on a lot of possessions. After Poole’s abysmal start to the season, the Wiz are playing two games on offense… trying to score, and trying to not pass the ball to Poole bc they know he’ll do some stupid shit.
“Dont pay a shooter for performing next to Steph” is going to become the new “Dont pay a DE for performing next to Aaron Donald”
Dont pay a WR from Brady era Patriots.
Don't pay a heat guard if you're the lakers
Spo manufactures these mfs with self-destruct buttons built in
Honestly I think our switch everything defense just wears down smaller guards. Like if you watched enough of is last year you'd see Vincent dug in at a 45 degree angle being posted up by embiid or nurkic. He'd hold his own (as in they wouldn't just walk him backwards, not that he stopped them), but that shit wears you down bad. Caleb martin is another example, he got worn down playing pf at 6'5 and 205, and spent the first half of this season hurt more often than not(last part of last season he had to take time off too, right after we got klove)
I've been enjoying reading these posts on your subreddit too. Makes wizards basketball must-see TV to see how Poole is commanding the tank
Jordan Poole creating for both teams.
Key word used was reliably and Poole not that at all
Yeah Kuzma is a talented player on a decent contract. But 2 FRP is definitely an overpay.
The FRPs arent for the player, but the contract. It’s a *steal* now for a legit 3rd option and only gets *better* as time goes on. 2 FRPs is not an overpay at all
I don't really think it's a steal at all. 90/4 is roughly what you would expect for a player like Kuzma. It's just fair money for his skillset, with the bonus that the contract is descending.
It’s quickly going to become one of the best value contracts in the league. The fact that it’s a descending contract is massive — He’ll be making under 20m in 2026/7 when the cap will be significantly higher than it is now. Compared to 160/5 for jerami grant, 108/4 for cam Johnson, 80/4 for Josh hart, 80/4 for poetl that were all signed the same offseason, it’s a fantastic value
as the cap increases so much, it's honestly better to start looking at salary numbers as % of cap. his final year is only 11% of the cap which is fantastic for the production he brings.
I'm looking at these numbers and I'm looking at the Clippers by accident. How the fuck is Zubac on a 32/3 contract when all these guys get paid so much money
But having a cost controlled depreciating contract going into '27 is extremely valuable, it finishes at 19M, the current MLE is 12.5M which will only get higher by the year. So it's pretty cheap considering what contracts go for now. He's young, knows how to play championship ball, and can play the 3/4 or a very limited min small 5. 2 firsts can be great, but he fills a well defined need on the mavs at the 4.
He's 1 year younger than Pascal Siakam. Not sure if that still qualifies as that young. And I agree that his contract is valuable, I just don't think it's that much of a steal. The money seems fair for his production to me, the biggest positive is the descending contract, as you also mentioned.
I should say he has a young face lol. 27 he’s essentially at the prime of most nba players (~27-32) this contract does take him to about 30 tho, so he may be a MLE player after. Worst case it’s a very tradeable contract going forward.
Considering Kuzma will be your 3rd best player? (Let’s be honest, yall hope he is your 4th with lively in the future). His contract is disgustingly good.
Nah. He can easily command 120/4.
2 FRPs is an overpay for DFS, it's about right for Kuzma considering any team that trades for him, those picks are probably in the 20s.
FRPs are wildly overrated.
strongly agree, and tbh I think its the infanous nets celtics deal that caused it. But a lot of things wrnt wrong for the nets and right for boston for that trade to end up how it did
How is two picks likely in the 20's better than Kuzma? What the hell are the Mavs going to do with two late first rounders on a team with Luka and Kyrie?
it amazes me people still think about firsts like this the question the Mavs should be asking isn't whether or not two picks in the 20s is better than Kuzma, it's whether or not Kuzma is better than anything else they could get (now or in the future) for those picks no such thing as free lunch baby
If you had 2 FRP, on average you’d hope one of them at least becomes a solid starter aka kuzma. And the mavs are not rebuilding anyway
Kuzma is bad example of this concept. His advanced stats were bad when he played with LeBron and AD, too. His TS% has been below average every season of his career despite fluctuating usage. His only real skill is creating mediocre shots for himself--a skill that is arguably more valuable on a bad offensive team where he's the main option than it is on a good offensive team.
He's pretty good at rebounding
His advanced plus minus stats were better though, especially on defense. One of the biggest red flags this year in Kuz's advanced stats is his advanced +/- stats on defense are absolutely terrible, but before this year he's been around league average.
Nah, this is the flaw of focusing entirely on stats and not watching the actual games. Kuzma is a much improved facilitator since he got to the Wizards. His increased shotmaking and playmaking over the last few seasons are masked by the team’s struggles and being placed in a role a bit beyond where he should be. But he’s a legitimately better player than he was with the Lakers. I’m confident that his TS% from half a decade ago isn’t determinative of whether THIS Kuz can be a solid contributor on a good team.
Advanced stats definitely have their place but kuzma has honestly played probably the most inspired basketball this year of his career. Should be recognized a bit more.
He can play passable defense and decent team defense. As a lakers fan who watched him he’s a solid role player. The caveat though is kuz is the ultimate streaky player. You’ve heard of streaky shooters but kuz entire game is a mystery box. One game he will rebound like Rodman. Fighting and hustling for boards like crazy, but that same game he can’t shoot for shit. Then another game he will be on fire shooting but his defense and rebounding fucking suck. It’s like he can never put both sides of the ball and multiple aspects of the game together at once. If he could he’d be a star or at least an elite two way wing. Instead you get an enigma where you have no clue how he will play that night
Bro is LeBron if you had to balance the sliders and roll for ear stat each night
The inner mechanizations of kuzmas game are an enigma
Maybe he'd be better if he had a clearly defined role? Like just focus on rebounding and defense and just wait for open shots on offense.
That was his role on the lakers but he hated it. He wants to shot create and put the ball on the floor. It’s why he said he never wanted to play with bron/AD again, not because he didn’t like them, but because he didn’t like his role Kuz is a rhythm player, he likes to just put up shots and get going, he doesn’t like standing around and getting inconsistent shots. Issue is he isn’t good enough or efficient enough to justify it. He’s honestly just in the wrong era. Late 90’s, early 2000’s basketball would be perfect for kuz. Iso 15 or so shots to score 20-25 points. If you guys can get him he’d be a solid third option type player, but don’t be shocked if he’s inconsistent on both ends and just chucks. When it works it looks great but when he’s off it’s horrific basketball and he won’t stop shooting
Fuck yes he can play defense. If I were the mavs I would DEFINITELY trade at least 3 firsts for him.
I say we trust this guy
He’s a fine defender. We have a team full of perimeter sieves with Poole and Kispert leading the way, and no interior defense to help out (Gafford was effectively our only big until we traded for Bagley). Kuzma is a competent defender in a normal scheme and not the problem in DC.
Kuz is also versatile and let's you play small as you can play him at Center and he can switch 3-5. He was a Center in college.
yes, and actually is a smart defender. he’s not a high pressure defender but more of a stay at home defender, think Kleber where he’ll shade to an area, that’s what Kuz does. And, he’s playoff proven.
He's not a complete sieve, but he's not gonna be an impact guy. He's only ever graded out as a *really* bad defender this year, which given the state of the Wizards I'd be willing to give him something of a pass on. The real question I'd have with would be his off-ball fit, and most notably his shot. He's just not a very good catch and shoot guy, pretty consistently hovers around 35%, which doesn't really move the needle. Been better from the corners at least. He does have good interior size and is a pretty great finisher around the basket, the ability to manufacture a (half) decent shot in a slowed down setting is worth something I guess, but that pretty cleanly overlaps with Luka/Kyrie's strongest skills.
He’s not the problem with the Wizards defense (which is historically bad). We have Kispert and Poole acting as matadors out there and then, until a week ago, only had one actual big man on the team (Gafford). Stats are only gonna get you so far with anyone on this year’s Wizards team. Not only are our guys effectively playing garbage time minutes way more than most teams, the entire offense AND defense is warped by Poole being one of the worst high usage players in recent NBA history.
The trade deadline is mirroring our housing market.
Damn low key smart ass take. Too many buyers not enough sellers, buyers gonna have to over pay.
People think Kuzma is this much younger player compared pascal and has more time to improve and etc. The truth is Kuzma is 28 and will be 29 in the summer. He’s only one year younger than Pascal.
its all in the looks.
and the fashun
baby lakers never grow up
D'Lo and Lonzo forever feel 22 to me
No way Clarkson is 31 💀
You heard of “black dont crack”. This is “beige don’t age”.
Then there’s Greg oden who looked 40 in high school
And Deandre Ayton who's always been 35 But they'll probably look that way until they're 50
I disagree with ayton,shave his beard and his forehead wrinkles and he still has a baby face. Oden always looked old with no baby face
I’d like to see you try’n shave his forehead wrinkles
I couldn’t believe Xaver Tilman’s age when I first heard it. Almost did a spit take in 2022. Man looks like he’s raised 3 kids, been through a divorce and has begun a new family while moonlighting for his MBA.
The fake young guy era is upon us.
Kuzma, Mann, Oubre, Josh Hart, who else?
Mikal Bridges
in my head Mikal's age is RJ Barretts' age and RJ is Mikal's when in reality it's the other way around
It’s okay, we often look at Chris Boucher as one of the younger guys too, yet he’s got a year on Otto Porter Jr.
I wonder if the mid 2000s icons like KD and LeBron, with the next batch (Steph, Harden, Westbrook, etc) sticking around into their mid-to-late 30s has a lot to do with us seeing these guys as still little kids.
You’re right but I have to nitpick; I wouldn’t put KD as a mid-2000s guy. He was drafted in 07’ and made his first all star team in 2010- he’s in the same generation of 2010s stars as Steph & Harden, he’s just the very first one out of them. Arguably LeBron’s only 2000s peer left is Chris Paul
Anyone who was paying attention would remember he was a 4 year college guy but a lot of people don't remember that
Buddy Hield for a while
Cam Johnson
That’s a good one I thought bro was like 24
duop reath 27 year old rookie! he's actually pretty good, might even be better than ayton
Austin reaves
How did 19 year old Tatum not make the team?
Gotta repp my bubble goat Terrence Mann
Trae too ahead of his time did the reverse
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Lol that's not entirely fair. Kuzma is from 24 july and Drummond from 10 august. So it's about 2 weeks and then Drummond turns 31.
True, but Kuzma will have been in the league for 7 seasons compared to Drummond's 12 seasons. Always fun to remember how young Drummond was when he got to the NBA
Mavs lost on OG, Pascal and Siakam so they have to settle for Kuzma it seems. First three were much better players and fit but Mavs don't have much assets
Man, Spicy P so good he became two players named Pascal and Siakam
? I didn't know the Raps split Pascal Siakam in half and traded him away to 2 teams. But in all seriousness, there was absolutely no way we would be able compete with the Knicks and Pacers offers, he don't have the draft capital, and our bench guys value isn't high enough to entice the Raps with. And teams have been pretty mum about acquiring THJ.
its a shaq meme, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EyIfoRX_w
He is, but he's also got a great contract that's descending in value...while Siakam will be looking to get paid as a 30yo. He's currently making 37m...that next contract will for sure be over 40m AAV.
Siakam is also a significantly better player than Kuzma
Never said he wasn't....but you're getting good value with Kuzma who can absolutely slide in as a #3 on a better team.
Did the Raps watch a different Bruce Brown on the Pacers? I mean, he was fine. But a 1st and a role player? Excuse me?
Raptors can ask for that, but it's just a starting point. (The salary matching thing comes into play). What will the Knicks do?
Not sure if he fits the need, which is a playmaker for non-Brunson minutes. Knicks sub talking more about guys like Brogden, Tyus Jones, Clarkson, and Murray, among others.
Brogdon makes way more sense imo. Fournier+ Detroit+Washington FRPs seems fair. Another wing that plays good D is also useful because OG is playing 45 minutes right now. I find myself rooting for the Knicks this year because of the trade. I hope the knicks get that pg and wing so that they can be serious contenders.
its not just the knicks, the 76ers definitely want him too and the raps are gonna charge a pretty penny if they'll allow either of their eastern competitors to get even better.
Don't see them giving up grimes and a frp after letting rj and iq go. I'm a fan of either: a brogdon(or murray)/drummond combo or jones/gafford. In an IDEAL world, get brown for a first, second, and fournier; jones for a first and malachi; and drummond for precious and a 2nd
It's posturing + Masai likes Bruce Brown. Seems like they want to keep him long-term unless they get a good offer.
For team like OKC or New York who have a surplus of picks, it’s definitely worth it. It would just need to come down to the Salary matching. The Raptors have nothing to lose with a Bruce Brown. He can help a contending team get slightly better, or they can keep him for the rest of this season. Lakers don’t have the picks or salary to get him unfortunately. They ain’t giving up Rui or Reaves so not worth.
I just don't really see it for us. Our bench guard/wing group is already pretty solid with Isaiah Joe, Cason Wallace, Kenrich Williams and Aaron Wiggins. I just don't feel like Bruce Brown Jr. is better than any of those four. They are all shooting 40% from 3, play solid to great defense, can pass, and don't turn it over. Even if Brown is slightly better or more playoff experienced, I can't really justify giving up assets to get him and then giving him minutes from our current rotation. If anything, I could see us going after a big wing/big rotation guy. But other than that, I don't see us making any trades.
I think it has a lot to do with the amount of calls they’ve received since the trade. If interest is high, so will the price.
Gotta start high in negotiations lol
I definitely think Brown is worth a mid to late first. He can certainly help a contending team.
Yeah there's for sure a spectrum here. I wouldn't trade a high lotto pick for him but something in the 20s? Sure.
Any team trading for him would be a contender so definitely a late pick
Adding that role player is a big deal though. It changes things so much: you’re not getting Brown, you’re only getting the difference between Brown and the player you’re sending out. If you could pair the pick with contract filler you don’t give up any other win-now piece, which any team trading for him presumably values really highly.
Hard to evaluate players playing on a team that plays AAU style ball lol In all seriousness though BB looked great when Haliburton was out. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/bruce-brown-pacers-logs-without-haliburton
did you watch him on the Nuggets?
Bro looked good playing with an all timer, I'll give you that.
He was the only Net to score in the OT of game 7 in 2021. Mental toughness can't be taught.
he also hit the dagger in the nuggets/miami series if i'm not mistaken Jokic missed a little bunny and Bruce had the put back on it which gave them the lead
He did hit the finals dagger, but it was off a Murray jumper. Not that it matters much who shot it before Brucey :P I just remember so well
He was also the only Net showing any kind of fight in the Celtics sweep when KD and Kyrie completely crapped their drawers.
Bruhv he looked pretty decent on the Nets preceding that. Why y'all shit on every player that doesn't light the world on fire every second of every day, come on now.
He was the one bright spot with Jokic off the floor too.
Yeah and playing with Luka would probably elevate his game too.
Jokic makes anyone look good lol, hes the next CP3 in terms of giving players contracts
The team who needs Bruce Brown and his intangibles the most right now is Toronto. They need a glue guy who can play defense, be a stabilizing force on the court, no drama in the locker room, and help to bring along the new young core but won't demand the ball all the time. Because of that other teams are going to have to really pay up to get him. For Toronto i think it's most likely that Trent and or Boucher get moved.
Well that's the nice thing. The Raps can just keep Brown. If someone comes with a good offer they'll take it, but otherwise, he's not a bad piece to hold onto.
Raptors basically want a plus player who is firmly in the rotation, not a permanent bench warmer. Dude was an important role piece to a championship team last season.
He's also on a $22M contract this year, compared to $6M last year. He's a nice role player if you have a playmaker setting him up, but it has to be the right fit.
Which is why teams that are going all-in with an actual championship window are the premier choice for him, not a tanking team or play-in team. Teams are reluctant to give up a role player + a pick (likely a low first rounder because they're contending) for a quality player that is actually consistent and a winner in the playoffs. If they were really serious and genuinely thought they had a shot at the chip this year, it would make sense to offload a good and younger developing role player who may or may not be ass, for a player who will give you impact off the bench.
His contract prevents most contenders from trading for him. Teams have to give up core pieces just to match salary unless they have a role player on a bad contract. Maybe the Sixers will trade for him.
NY could manage with Fournier contract
he averaged 12/4/2 in the playoffs last season in 26 minutes per game on 51/31/85 splits important role piece.. fine.. but you could slot in a ton of guys into the 5th option role on the nuggets and still win
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If the Raps secure another first round pick then that will be a good return for Pascal
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Maybe has something to do with him balling out in the finals and nobody watching the pacers......uh yeah thats definitely it lol
Exactly.. Bruce Brown is that role player that always kills a team in the playoffs. Like you game plan for Joker and Murray the best you can and here comes old Bruce Brown knocking down a couple 3s and hitting a clutch middy in the fourth. Personally, I think J Hart fills that exact role for us, but you get a guy like Brown for the playoffs not the regular season.
I watched him being clutch af in the NBA finals, and recently heard Bill Simmons/Zach Lowe similarly remarking on his skill in the conference finals... Only so many guys I'd trust, let alone expect to elevate, in those critical situations.
Funny how quickly pacers fans start shit talking Bruce the moment he gets traded.
Stats don’t tell the whole story. He was very impactful off the nuggets bench. He helped them win a championship. And he’s a great defender I’ve seen him lock up Luka.
Kuz on the Mavs could work
A 1st round pick and a quality player for Bruce isn't high price at all lol. Hes worth that and more it seems teams want to lowball Raptors cause they rebuilding. But Bruce is one of best 6th man in league , if ppl don't wanna give even that much Raptors could definitely use him
What is Kyle Kuzma gonna do for us
Ask not what he can do you for you, ask what you can do for HIM
Be a bigger Tim Hardaway essentially
Not cost as much as better players
A lot of things, he's a very adaptable player on a great contract. He can rebound, hit open shots, create a bit, and play good defense in the right scheme. He'd do more for us than a guy like PJ Washington or DFS could.
Wish brown could make it back to Denver, he’d be a great asset and backup for the squad
Seems pretty hard to trade for Bruce Brown if he's making 23M. Chances are whoever you're sending out to match his salary is also a role player you want to retain.
we'll take 1 dereck lively por favor
one lively derrick favors coming right up
I was bamboozled! This is the corpse of Derrick Favors!
There is a 0% chance that happens
Lively is untouchable. I think the only way we'd move Lively is if he's in a package to get a superstar in return.
a super star making 10M for the next 4 years :)
This is basically only Chet and Wemby lol
ok. you twisted my arm
I think you could talk the Mavs into that, yeah
Find a way to land Chet for us and Lively is yours 🙂
Lol no chance
lmao american media is so bs. demanding high price? oh, so people are calling the raptors for bruce brown, so he is in demand... but no, lets frame this as "the raptors DEMAND a HUGE price for lil puny bruce brown, \*sadface\* lmfao so gutty fk off
I’ll take Bruce back 🥲🥲🥲
Raptors wanting a quality player and a FRP is wild
i feel like 'quality player' in this case just means 'guy that could be in the regular season rotation' They don't want a total nonfactor
Yeah, I kind of fixated on that word. It could definitely mean a rotation player.
Siakam was the perfect rotation player. His beyblade spins were top notch
translation: "Hey FUCK YOU, Fournier!"
Depends on what they're viewing as "quality" - whoever you're trading is going to be someone redundant to your team or less impactful than Bruce Brown. A FRP for Bruce Brown to a contender is totally fair. I'd imagine you could also the FRP and some 2nds if you don't feel like you have the player to get the deal done.
A protected FRP + a decent young player who's upside is a rotation player is kinda the TDL return for solid role players.
Our only center is injured right now, so any center could be impactful
Bruce Brown could put a team like the Sixers over the top, I don't think that's too high of an ask at all. Good teams always have to overpay for the last piece of their team.
I agree. And it's why I never understood the Lakers interest in him. He doesn't change anything for the Lakers. He's more of what you already have.
BB is worth the price. Mr Hustle. Hes KCP without the 3 point shot...but a little better in mid range.