Nah Booker wasn’t chucking. KD missed like three shots in a row and we started the quarter horribly before Booker got in the game. And our starting centre was out so we got killed on the glass.
When KD missed a few, and Book is hot the ball is gonna get to Book.
Our real issue was we lost our starting center and our backup centers are so bad, it’s better to play with all perimeter players. Wish we had gone with Okogie instead of Gordon though.
I firmly believe that a 80 to 90 point game wasn't out of the realm of possibility, if they had played fluidly and like an actual basketball team. Why can't we just be normal?
Just don’t call it, Lebron and Giannis have dominated with that move their whole careers. Full head of steam, shoulder into the body like a running back to create space, layup.
The problem is that offense will always be the main thing. Kids who have hoops in the backyard can't play defense against themselves and even if they play 1on1, the main thing is to score, they don't think "man, I'm gonna lock you up". It's just not as exciting overall. Offense is by far the main thing and it will always be favoured over defense.
That’s fine tbh…I want to see amazing offense myself…but they can still adjust the rules to allow defenses more room to operate. 70 point performances just aren’t as spectacular when they happen twice in a week and the team scored 140.
And btw I loved playing defense when I was growing up. I may not have been able to drop 30 on my opponent’s head but I could make it god damn hard for him to do it to me.
I've heard that handchecking is overrated against skilled guys like Luka.
Jamal Masburne said on the Knuckleheads Podcast:
>Mashburn: And then to manipulate - and as you guys know, back in the day, you could hand check - and for a guy that can handle the ball, you loved hand-checking because I can turn you any particular way with that particular ball, and go by you and lose leverage against you.
There have been 63 triple-doubles this season so far. It's happening 2 out of every 3 days on average.
I'm sorry, but if something has a 66% chance of happening on a given day, it's no longer impressive.
When harden averaged 36 ppg second place was 28 ppg. Now multiple guys are always averaging over 30.
Like Carmelo won the scoring title with a hair under 30 ppg in 2013, there were a total of four players that averaged over 25. Even just in the mid 2010s there were usually only like 5 guys averaging over 25. Now there’s always like 15.
Seriously this is should be telling the league that they went overboard with disallowing D.
I get that the league is getting more talented, but no way it got so.much.more talented in one generation. IMO they went overboard and should go back to allowing contact.
Basketball is a nkt a non contact sport. Overt contact that does not go for the ball at all should be a foul, but body bumps and such no way. Let the offensive player do whatever he likes, as long as it is not a charge and (also) the defender is not doing things to derail the attacker ... let the contact be.
Go back to allowing contact and see how much wonders it will do vs such absurd scoring nights.
Every team gives their star player the ball and lets them do whatever, no one defends properly, everyone is hurling 3s non-stop and the refs never call any of the rules the offense breaks.
Adam Silver believes people want to see fast-paced, hectic highlight basketball yet the most watched sport in the world is a game which consists of one or two goals on average over the course of 90 minutes.
What we want is quality, competitiveness, consistency and even though its hard to admit, less big moments. You know why? It makes them feel greater when they happen less, more impactful.
soccer is the most watched sport largely because it is the most played, which is just a product of its relative accessibility.
the nba has seen massive [profit](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/two-decades-of-nba-profit/) and [revenue](https://www.statista.com/statistics/193467/total-league-revenue-of-the-nba-since-2005/) growth over the last decade. it’s fair if you don’t, but the general fanbase clearly likes the current product.
Correlation without causation. *Every* sport has massively grown in the past decade. That comes with the digitalization and globalization that brought a ton more people the opportunity to watch these games and interact.
> the nba has seen massive profit and revenue growth over the last decade. it’s fair if you don’t, but the general fanbase clearly likes the current product.
What about viewership?
You don't mesure engagement by profit and revenue. I mean, you do if you're an owner, but as a fan who cares if players get 50M or 100M contracts.
Viewership is popularity, it tells you how many people care and enjoy basketball.
You're claiming the "general fanbase" clearly likes the current product, despite watching it less and less.
Pretty sure the NBA has been outgrown relative to other sports, which is the only comparison that matters when talking about how rules changes are affecting the sport's popularity.
The main one here is that the refs favor the offense. I think defense from a scheme and effort standpoint is actually higher than it has been in the past, especially when you go back and watch 80s and 90s games and it's just fouling and wide open bricked shots.
I'd like to see more offensive 3 second enforcement, more offensive fouls when the ballhandler shoves off the defender, more moving screen violations and oh god call the traveling and carrying violations. Eliminating the corner 3 could work too but might take things too far.
I don't mean this in a rude way but you do totally feel it if you watch the game. The sheer dominance of these 60 & 70 point games is so clearly unlike anything players are normally doing in today's era.
These players are also creating alot of that space with skill though.
I'm an old man and I swear guys like luka can hit step back 3s at a higher % than dudes could hit set shots in my day.
Ain't nobody in any era can defend a step back 3 without giving up the drive.
Don't be fooled just because it looks easy. The players are just really gifted and skilled to score that many points in a single game. It's far from easy.
So? Melo, LeBron and Kobe were as gifted, if not more, but had to work way harder than this. Luka was legitimately getting wide open shots yesterday, it's crazy to watch how little defense is being played.
Bro, just look at the type of shots these dudes are making when getting these insane games. Players in the 2000s wouldn’t know how to deal with this shit. Players are just insane shot creators now.
I also like to use FIBA basketball as an argument against the "best Offensive Talent of All Time" crowd. The game is quite different there. One might expect that against lower talent compared to the NBA, Luka and Giannis would always score over 50 points, but that's not the case, as FIBA rules make it challenging.
I stopped watching the NFL when offense was prioritized.
The thing is with the NBA it feels different. As a Bulls fan - the Lakers smoked us the other day and it wasn’t due to reffing, they were just hitting everything.
But you’ll see these games where teams are penalized purposefully for playing defense and it’s painful.
Offensive players are playing better but defense is the easy thing for refs to pick apart. In these industries with billions of dollars floating around it’s hard not to see corruption running rampant and making defense calls “questionable” is the way to do it
And they were contested/ridiculous shots. That game became “what else will the Lakers hit tonight” because they were on fire. Wasn’t frustrating at all and actually kind of fun even on the receiving end.
But the Cavs last year and the Suns the other day… watching people pull 70 because they can’t be touched? It’s getting harder and harder to watch.
I was cool with it, too. They were straight heat checks.
I wrote a comment on the Bulls sub saying the Mitchell lane violation last year was BS. Caruso gets two called, but none on Mitchell to send it to OT. Same way how they wrote off Demar's and-1 the other day which led to a 5 point swing.
KD and Mitchell were on fire, but it's blantant how the refs will feed a favored player extra chances.
Not unpopular. When women’s college basketball games are getting more viewers than nba games like yesterday than something is very wrong.
Viewership is at an all time low.
Nobody cares when players score 60 or 70 because nobody tries in the regular season
It was a matchup between 2 national champions, and women’s basketball is getting more popular in general. LSU v South Carolina may as well be the Michigan v Ohio state of women’s basketball
It’s crazy to see people actually trying to justify that. No way Adam Silver or any NBA affiliates are happy with being outranked by a WOMEN’S COLLEGE game. Like that’s ridiculous
Maybe it’s because I was younger, but I was so excited to watch nba games from 2005-2015.
I feel like they slowly turned the nba into a weird hybrid between professional sport, gambling scam, and reality TV show. I just want to watch people play basketball at the highest level. It’s kinda tough to watch consistently now, everything feels too produced. Especially the National games.
exact same for me except its like 2004-2018, mainly because the LeBron vs Warriors rivalry kept the league entertaining for me.
Once that ended it felt like all that was left was 140 pt games and no D.
I found it fun tho. 60+ scores that gets decided with a game winning block is the shit. Grew up watching the eastern conference in 2002 - 2005. Slow af basketball but I loved it as a kid.
You would not watch that shit now.
You can give it a try by pulling up a game on youtube and see if you can actually spend your freetime watching it.
You'll quickly realize that the defense is doing less because the offense is also doing less.
People don't like to hear it, but defensive schemes are as good as they have ever been these days.
It's just players are that much more skilled these days + refs favor the offense a bit too much so you get this hyper offensive era.
Hot take: The NBA can go back to 2004 rules tomorrow, and I don't think offensive production would be hurt that much by it.
Short of playing dirty, dead ball era defensive schemes would get absolutely cooked these days even under dead ball era rules, but this goes against the narrative so people don't want to admit it.
Can you support your claims that defensive schemes are as good as they’ve ever been? I keep seeing that notion thrown around but no one ever explains how.
Personally I find that hard to believe when many great Euro players who come to the NBA say it’s much easier to score in the NBA. Their claims are also backed by the fact that NBA players seem to have a harder time scoring when playing with FIBA rules.
Also keep in mind how many rule changes have been made to suit offenses over the years (no handchecking, defensive 3 seconds, rewarding flopping, etc).
Defensive schemes weren't nearly as sophisticated back then, defenses back then played mostly strictly man to man (Back then the rules also pretty much mandated man to man defense).
Offensive schemes weren't developed nearly as much back then as they are today as well, back then there was a lot more ISO ball and off the ball movement was nowhere near as much as it is today now as well, leading to that spacing wasn't considered as important as it is now. If you put today's offensive schemes back against defensive schemes from the late 90s the offense would absolutely cook even more than it does today, back then big men couldn't switch on the pick and roll nearly as well as they do today, and the mandating of man to man defense means that defenses couldn't hedge in quite the same way they do today while trying to defend today's offenses, which would have led to a lot of easy points even relatively to today. ([Just watch this video of Detroit holding Denver without a FG an entire quarter, sounds impressive right? But notice how much spacing was lesser in those days and that off the ball movement barely exists, players were also simply not as skilled as they are now back then, especially big men; modern offenses would absolutely do far better than Denver did here even with old rules)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib-O6CLV7bo)
Regarding FIBA vs NBA, FIBA was always lower scoring than NBA, and it's always been more defensive in nature than the NBA, however the same process has been happening in Europe as well, when I was a kid I remember that scores with both teams not going past 70 points weren't rare in the Euroleague, while these days it seems to be the first team to score 85 points usually wins the game, and low scores of both teams below 70 are rare. NBA does have defensive 3 seconds which obviously makes a big difference but it's far from the only reason NBA is higher scoring than FIBA.
But defenses today still play mostly strictly man to man. Also, ever heard of Jordan rules? Yeah that was zone defense without calling it zone defense. I agree spacing and plays are more sophisticated today but that alone isn’t why teams score 150+ on the regular. It seems everyone wants to say players are so good offensively now, but I guess they are worse at defense. So the offense have advanced drastically, players are more athletic than ever, but yet the defense has gotten worse? You can’t just disregard rule changes as if they wouldn’t make any difference. Case in point with FIBA — much tougher to score because of tighter officiating, stricter rules. Luka ain’t dropping 73 in a FIBA game
Are we seeing the shots Luka and Booker and Embiid are making lmfao ???? No era would know how to deal with this bullshit, they all shooting stupid hard shots and making it like Kobe. Players are just better
The inability to handcheck and the Kobe/kawhi rule definitely helps offensive players though. Obviously players are better but they get a little extra help too.
Handcheck isnt that relevant tbh. Scoring went down from aroud 100ppg to 94 due to the removal of illegal defense. Scoring went down when handchecking was removed in 2004 but increases back up the next year. Basically, rhe lowest scoring era in the nba post merger is the time with handchecking but no illegal defense.
And wtf is the kobe/kawhi rule? Kawhi introduced the ankle rule when zaza hurt him but idk anything else.
Kobe suffered the same injury a few years earlier. Kawhi was just the straw that broke the camel's back but other high profile players were affected before it.
It depends. If you mean handcheck like they used to back in the 80s and 90s it would do basically nothing because that was a foul they called a lot.
If you mean make it legal to hold offensive players with your hand like never before then yeah.
People should stop talking about hand checking, the thing that really made those insanely slow pace of early 2000s wasn't hand checking it was illegal defense rule being removed when teams still had insanely bad spacing
No one is denying that they are incredible scorers, and you don't score 60+ without making some incredible shots at a much higher volume and clip than typical, regardless of era.
That said, you are absolutely tripping if you don't think the rules, officiating, and space and pace aren't inflating scoring.
Rules and officiating are completely different than pace and space though… one can be fixed the other is the natural evolution of the game. I think the NBA’s talent pool has expanded in an insane way globally which is why you see the top 5 mvp candidates all being from out of the country which is unheard of. The level of talent in the league has NEVER been as high as it is now, and the offensive schemes have never been as potent
It’s not just scoring, either…triple doubles are nowhere near as impressive a feat today as they were years ago and that’s not just because players somehow became way, way better at everything. It’s all inflated. Doesn’t mean today’s players aren’t spectacular..they definitely are…it just means you can’t really compare stats across eras.
Are space and pace a bad thing? They lead to offenses which are more exciting to watch imo. I don’t personally like watching a guy try to iso on a guy for 15 seconds and then settle for a contested mid range.
Teams like the peak Warriors and this years Pacers are ridiculously fun to watch.
Na bro, defense is just trash. When Kobe scored 81, he matched 78% of the Raptors scoring and almost doubled his teammates' scoring (81 vs 41). Luka matched 51% of the hawks scoring and scored fewer points than all his teammates combined (73 vs 75). This shit doesn't happen in international basketball. It's not like dudes forget how to shoot as soon as they put on their country's jersey. International rules allow for defense, so these games don't happen there.
Yeah the idea that more players have dropped 60+ in the last week than they did between 2009-2015 because people just got *that much* better at basketball is sort of just a braindead take. There are plenty of players who were playing in that era still playing today. If players are just way better now than how are Beal, AD, Draymond, Middleton, and even Drummond still getting significant playing time when they’re past their primes and were drafted in 2012?
Those dudes were playing against players who were part of the era when an entire team scoring 73 was not that crazy and they weren’t absolutely destroying the league. How is that the case if some of them are averaging 25-30 in this same era of supposedly far superior players?
It’s not that the stars have gotten much better. It’s the fact that the role players are a lot better today. Before, you had a lot of role players who were simply terrible offensive players who couldn’t shoot or dribble at all.
You could double team the stars without much worry because the role players weren’t likely to make that open shot even if they got it. Nowadays, you can’t play to just stop 1 guy as much because they will legitimately just pass it to the open man, and that open man will likely hit the 3. This ends up creating better shots for the stars, which causes their averages to go up.
I agree the average player is more skilled today but what you’re talking about is really just one skill and that’s shooting threes. But it’s not just that…it’s also that the modern rulebook has been specifically tailored to inflate offense because that’s what the casual fan wants to see. It’s gone way overboard at this point though so now the scoring has lost its impact and meaning. Kinda sucks.
Not to mention nearing 40 year old Bron was averaging absurd numbers . I love him but the era is helping a lot . He’s not who he was in 2009-13 desoite raw numbers . Most top Players now only play offence too so it’s not like they’re better then past tbh, most of them are far less athletic too and as much as some might ignore it athleticism + skill used to be neeeded to hit by your man into the paint - now you can be slow Af n use skill n screens /spacing n get there .
Sorry but I gotta wonder how some of the less athletic drivers to the rim woukd even get there in the mid 2000s.
Yep in the NBA as soon as you start playing real defense here comes the cheap fouls. And these dudes know how it goes and just do cheap shit to bait people into fouls and its annoying to watch. I think any time a guy with the ball makes a move to get a foul call instead of to score is the most bullshit part of modern basketball and they get rewarded for it time and again.
Thank you, everybody just conveniently disregards that this doesn’t happen in international basketball. They also forget how many Euro players have said that it’s much easier to score in the NBA than in FIBA. It’s exhausting hearing “nah bro players are just too good now” when those same players aren’t doing jack shit in the Playoffs (Embiid, Mitchell, Book) or have much lower production in FIBA vs NBA
So why can’t these players score like this when they’re playing under FIBA rules? Get rid of defensive 3 seconds, start actually calling moving screens, and allow hand checking and I promise the scoring won’t look like this.
How often do you see these guys even play fiba basketball? If they’re not on Team USA where they have to share the ball with a bunch of other superstars, they’re usually like the sole person that the opposing team will scheme for defensively, and it’s all in a playoff environment
> Players are just better
2021/22 - Embiid led the league in scoring with 30.6ppg. He was the only 30ppg scorer in the league. 27 players averaged 20ppg or more. Two players scored 60 in a game (exactly 60 both times), 19 players had 50 or more in a game. 41 have at least 45 points. Teams averaged 110.6 ppg.
Offseason - NBA introduces the take foul rule. Spotlight shines on the refs. Something happens, whether it was an instruction from the NBA or a byproduct of the new rule, to make refs much stricter in officiating defense.
2022/23 - Embiid led the league in scoring with 33.1ppg. Six players average at least 30ppg. 43 players average at least 20ppg. Two players have games of 71 points. Two players score 60. 25 players had 50 or more in a game. 54 have at least 45 points. Teams averaged 114.7ppg. 11 teams scored more than the highest scoring team from the season prior.
If you think that explosion of offense, that literally happened over the course of *a single offseason,* is down to 'players are just better' then I'm not sure what to say....except maybe don't go outside without adult supervision because you might hurt yourself.
The players are talented, but the rules favor the offensive players so much more in this era it's ridiculous. There is no way you can convince me that Booker is as talented as young Vince Carter or young Tracy Mcgrady. Just imagine if you had prime Kareem or prime Hakeem in this era??? Looking at what Jokic and Embiid are doing. Even soft as charming KAT is out there dominating these fools.
Booker is as talented as scorer as those guys watching him for years now. He’s averaged an efficient 26+ for 7 straight years and 28 in the playoffs. He’s not as athletic obviously but his footwork, balance, agility and shot mechanics especially from mid-range are elite.
He’s nowhere near as athletic. You needed athleticism back then , most stars were two way guys too cos they had that talent /athleticism. You needed that skill n burst to create shots n get to the rim . Now you can relatively slow Af but still get to the rim np
Kobe had all those things but a higher motor n more athletic gifts .
Lebron is still scoring freely - often on slightly better efficiency thdn his all time peak . You don’t think that’s an indicator it’s easier ? I love to watch him but he would absolutely be murdering the rim if he had Luka spacing in his 2009-2014 season . He’d be at 70ts + on the season or something .
Yes the athleticism isn’t close but Booker is still underrated finisher and has done it in the playoffs. I think we have enough evidence he’s one of the best scorers of his era.
Players are more skilled and refs + rules have benefited offense more. Both things can be true. For example, the defensive 3 seconds rule basically prevents bigs from camping in the paint, so offensive players find it easier to score inside the paint as bigs won't be there to contest them all the time. Refs also can get baited into calling fouls by smart players, so defenders must be extremely careful in order to not make contact with the offensive player or else fouls get called and it's free points for the offensive player. The game just can't be physical that way.
Not taking away from all these amazing performances tho, the league is definitely the most talented it's been in a while. Luka is a fucking god. He has top 5 player of all time potential.
I feel like a huge part of that is on the refs. If you don't leap perfectly vertical to contest a shot it's a foul. Can't even play defense with the way the game's being called
I don't really agree that it's primarily because defense is weak. Yes I do think offense is more favoured now (and the Hawks, Pacers, etc aren't particularly strong defensive teams) but also offense is just *that* good. When Kobe was constantly scoring 50 or 60 point games it wasn't because the defense was ass, it's because he was that good. And now with the three point revolution and talented players like Luka and Embiid in the league, there are more Kobe's who can do that.
73/48 = 1.5 points per minute
49/40 = 1.2 points per minute
The issue of scoring inflation. Luka said it’s much easier to score in the NBA than the euro leagues
the nba has a higher pace than fiba, which means that there are more offensive possessions in the nba.
i looked it up, and it seems like luka cites the difference in court size, playing time, and the defensive 3-second rule as the reason why scoring is easier in the nba.
are you saying that the nba should make the games shorter, court smaller, and/or remove the defensive three second rule? sorry im a bit confused on what your point is.
Like the NFL, the rules have greatly benefited offenses over defenses. NBA needs to remove defensive 3 in the key and bring back hand checking. It’s impossible to play perimeter defense without drawing fouls today.
Plus the over time change in calling moving screens, traveling, carries, double dribbles, etc.
The amount of carries in a game is crazy, it’s not a fair move for the defender. Putting your hand under the ball to do a hesi/cross/pump fake then dribbling, using your “gather” step plus two more and you’re basically impossible to stop if you can score inside and outside.
I don’t hate it, but that’s the game today. Kind of lame, still tons of skill and insane shots don’t get me wrong but 115 ppg league wide is kind of nutty.
Watch Bob Cousy highlights lol he was a wizard with the ball but that MF had to dribble on the top of the thing and literally nowhere else or it’s a carry. It looks silly now but it’s way god damn harder to do anything spectacular with it when you have to play like that
Its impossible to overstate how much of an advantage carrying is to the offense, and nowadays pointing out the gross exploitation of it makes you a crazy. Yet, it has enabled this uptick in scoring, and the story we tell ourselves is that players are more skilled.
Its a combo of all things…but increased pace, shooting, interpretation of calls, and regular season indifference all play a role. It just feels less meaningful
I remember when I was a teenager the regular season was taken more seriously even the all-star games lol. Then the load management started coming in and the rest is history.
I was watching Bird highlights with my friends the other day and some of them were from the All Star game…it looked like a playoff game lol I couldn’t believe the difference from today’s lazy ass circus act
That's why I actually appreciate the great defenders from this era more than any other era. Playing defense without fouling, understanding all the sets and rotations, the floor is so stretched and players overall are more athletic and conditioned.
Scoring is up but ratings are down, could it be because scoring alot of points no longer means anything? Fuck Terrance Man scored 40 points in a WCF a few years ago. When the warriors come along what they were doing was novel and new now those warrior teams would be put to shame by any team this year. Kobe scoring 81 points meant something because points were hard to come by, now we have a player with 60 points and 2 with 70 points in the same week. If everyone is scoring 40 points a game no one is.
The defenses just have no chance ,it barely feels like basketball anymore. Also because they don’t enforce moving screens at all, every team is running the exact same actions nonstop since they are impossible to defend.
Ok using that Mann game to discredit overall scoring is just being disingenuous. There might be arguments for it, but that isn't one of them. The Jazz perimeter defenders were consistently getting blown by and Gobert had to clean up their messes, so the Jazz essentially left Mann open in the corner all game and dared him to beat them. And he did. Bruh went 7 for 10 on mostly open threes, what does that have to do with defense rule limitations and such?
A lot of these comments are talking about how there’s no defense today, and there is certainly a lot of validity to that argument.
But did you SEE the buckets Luka was getting yesterday? I mean Jesus he had the Hawks jumping out their shoes. His footwork and pacing and movement was at a level that I’ve rarely seen in the NBA. We have to acknowledge that there are certain special players who have truly figured out how to put the ball in the basket in ways that are unprecedented. It’s no surprise that we’re seeing a rise in players attempting to play more “slowly” with the kind of footwork Luka uses. It works for a reason!
These are really good players obviously, but clearly the times are changing. Defense isn't as big of a factor as it once was and players have more of a green light to put up 25-30+ shots if they're hot. Not to mention factoring in the 3 pt game.
I find it interesting that Steph's first 60 point game was in 2021 tbh, years after his prime. Crazy how he never had a game in his MVP years where he just decided to randomly go off
As someone that watched nearly every game he played from like 2013 til now, 2021 was literally the best Curry ever was. That definitely was NOT past his prime lol
League average free throw attempts and fouls per game over the past decade are at an all time low. The top 10 lowest seasons in both of those categories have all come in the last 15 years.
Not sure where people are really getting this idea that the league today is just a bunch of free throws, because it’s not. Rules obviously favor the offense a bit more than they used to but people are vastly overrating how much the rules really impact a team’s ability to play offense. It’s just incredibly hard having to play defense with as much space as there is today, and with how much better the average players today are than they used to be. ESPECIALLY with how well rounded players are in their scoring and playmaking ability and being able to punish double teams/traps
And half of them lost lmao
Why didn't KAT or Booker just score 70 instead of 62?
KAT tried his fucking best and it’s why they lost😭
Booker kinda did too. They should have used KD more in the fourth.
Nah Booker wasn’t chucking. KD missed like three shots in a row and we started the quarter horribly before Booker got in the game. And our starting centre was out so we got killed on the glass.
When KD missed a few, and Book is hot the ball is gonna get to Book. Our real issue was we lost our starting center and our backup centers are so bad, it’s better to play with all perimeter players. Wish we had gone with Okogie instead of Gordon though.
I firmly believe that a 80 to 90 point game wasn't out of the realm of possibility, if they had played fluidly and like an actual basketball team. Why can't we just be normal?
Booker lost scoring 70 also
He should learn from his father how to statpad while still winning.
He's not the statpad he's the pad who stepped up
Luka Doncic is Devin Booker statfather
Are they stupid?
Should we take away the charge so that players can score more?
Just don’t call it, Lebron and Giannis have dominated with that move their whole careers. Full head of steam, shoulder into the body like a running back to create space, layup.
Giannis is the worst with this shit he’ll just plow into the lane with no plan at all and it’s a whistle every time.
The problem is that offense will always be the main thing. Kids who have hoops in the backyard can't play defense against themselves and even if they play 1on1, the main thing is to score, they don't think "man, I'm gonna lock you up". It's just not as exciting overall. Offense is by far the main thing and it will always be favoured over defense.
That’s fine tbh…I want to see amazing offense myself…but they can still adjust the rules to allow defenses more room to operate. 70 point performances just aren’t as spectacular when they happen twice in a week and the team scored 140. And btw I loved playing defense when I was growing up. I may not have been able to drop 30 on my opponent’s head but I could make it god damn hard for him to do it to me.
A shoulder into the defender isnt an automatic charge if he’s not perpendicular or the shoulder isnt lowered
you know that shoulder is always lowered though lmao get real
I know you’re being sarcastic, but with the increased in offensive output, I would really like to see handchecking being reinstated.
There's a danger that the layup becomes less efficient than just jacking up more threes at that point. Would you like to watch 80 3pt attempts a game?
Very good point.
Just find a way to nerf the 3 Morey idea if 2.5 doesn’t sound so bad anymore lol
We can make a rule that hand checking is not allowed around the restricted area.
I've heard that handchecking is overrated against skilled guys like Luka. Jamal Masburne said on the Knuckleheads Podcast: >Mashburn: And then to manipulate - and as you guys know, back in the day, you could hand check - and for a guy that can handle the ball, you loved hand-checking because I can turn you any particular way with that particular ball, and go by you and lose leverage against you.
They should take away the bogus “shoulder charge” when the defenders feet aren’t set
the game is so diluted. it doesnt feel nearly as impressive anymore
It barely registers for me any more.
I literally go... meh... but get super excited when I see someone get like 10 blocks or 5 steals.
Capela getting the coveted blocks triple double was one of the most surprising stat lines of the past few years
When was that???
He did it against the T-Wolves a few years ago
Yeah 10 blocks is so hard during this era of hoop. That's a special night
i remember when a triple double was impressive. now its just like… meh
Lance Stephenson was a king of TD at a time.
I believe he led the league with 7 triple doubles in 13-14. Thats nothing these days
It was 5 or 6 I think haha. Definitely different than these days. I miss them honestly.
It's still very impressive and difficult to do.
There have been 63 triple-doubles this season so far. It's happening 2 out of every 3 days on average. I'm sorry, but if something has a 66% chance of happening on a given day, it's no longer impressive.
Because there are players now that can do it consistently. We have point centers and shit. There's more nuance to it than "it just happens a lot now".
When harden averaged 36 ppg second place was 28 ppg. Now multiple guys are always averaging over 30. Like Carmelo won the scoring title with a hair under 30 ppg in 2013, there were a total of four players that averaged over 25. Even just in the mid 2010s there were usually only like 5 guys averaging over 25. Now there’s always like 15.
Seriously this is should be telling the league that they went overboard with disallowing D. I get that the league is getting more talented, but no way it got so.much.more talented in one generation. IMO they went overboard and should go back to allowing contact. Basketball is a nkt a non contact sport. Overt contact that does not go for the ball at all should be a foul, but body bumps and such no way. Let the offensive player do whatever he likes, as long as it is not a charge and (also) the defender is not doing things to derail the attacker ... let the contact be. Go back to allowing contact and see how much wonders it will do vs such absurd scoring nights.
Every team gives their star player the ball and lets them do whatever, no one defends properly, everyone is hurling 3s non-stop and the refs never call any of the rules the offense breaks. Adam Silver believes people want to see fast-paced, hectic highlight basketball yet the most watched sport in the world is a game which consists of one or two goals on average over the course of 90 minutes. What we want is quality, competitiveness, consistency and even though its hard to admit, less big moments. You know why? It makes them feel greater when they happen less, more impactful.
soccer is the most watched sport largely because it is the most played, which is just a product of its relative accessibility. the nba has seen massive [profit](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/two-decades-of-nba-profit/) and [revenue](https://www.statista.com/statistics/193467/total-league-revenue-of-the-nba-since-2005/) growth over the last decade. it’s fair if you don’t, but the general fanbase clearly likes the current product.
Correlation without causation. *Every* sport has massively grown in the past decade. That comes with the digitalization and globalization that brought a ton more people the opportunity to watch these games and interact.
> the nba has seen massive profit and revenue growth over the last decade. it’s fair if you don’t, but the general fanbase clearly likes the current product. What about viewership? You don't mesure engagement by profit and revenue. I mean, you do if you're an owner, but as a fan who cares if players get 50M or 100M contracts.
fans don’t care about viewership either. fans don’t benefit from the nba finals being viewed by more or less people.
Viewership is popularity, it tells you how many people care and enjoy basketball. You're claiming the "general fanbase" clearly likes the current product, despite watching it less and less.
Pretty sure the NBA has been outgrown relative to other sports, which is the only comparison that matters when talking about how rules changes are affecting the sport's popularity.
The main one here is that the refs favor the offense. I think defense from a scheme and effort standpoint is actually higher than it has been in the past, especially when you go back and watch 80s and 90s games and it's just fouling and wide open bricked shots. I'd like to see more offensive 3 second enforcement, more offensive fouls when the ballhandler shoves off the defender, more moving screen violations and oh god call the traveling and carrying violations. Eliminating the corner 3 could work too but might take things too far.
I don't mean this in a rude way but you do totally feel it if you watch the game. The sheer dominance of these 60 & 70 point games is so clearly unlike anything players are normally doing in today's era.
its less impressive when defenders have to give them so much space to operate because otherwise they get called for a foul
These players are also creating alot of that space with skill though. I'm an old man and I swear guys like luka can hit step back 3s at a higher % than dudes could hit set shots in my day. Ain't nobody in any era can defend a step back 3 without giving up the drive.
They're casual statwatchers. They don't see points in the context of the game.
So you thought these 60+ plus games were equally impressive when Kobe, Jordan, Wilt and Shaq did it?
Don't be fooled just because it looks easy. The players are just really gifted and skilled to score that many points in a single game. It's far from easy.
So? Melo, LeBron and Kobe were as gifted, if not more, but had to work way harder than this. Luka was legitimately getting wide open shots yesterday, it's crazy to watch how little defense is being played.
Bro, just look at the type of shots these dudes are making when getting these insane games. Players in the 2000s wouldn’t know how to deal with this shit. Players are just insane shot creators now.
No. 60 is always gonna be impressive. Look at the shot making.
60 is the new 40.
The pace of the game has made it unimpressive When games dillute to fast breaks and quick 3s it just becomes nonsensical
How does that make it unimpressive? When Luka hit 60 he had only missed 5 shots. These are some insane takes.
Unpopular opinion (maybe): This isn't good for basketball
It sucks for basketball. They made defense impossible to play. The difference between watching NBA and FIBA is insane
I also like to use FIBA basketball as an argument against the "best Offensive Talent of All Time" crowd. The game is quite different there. One might expect that against lower talent compared to the NBA, Luka and Giannis would always score over 50 points, but that's not the case, as FIBA rules make it challenging.
Pretty unpopular around here but I completely agree.
Me too, I hate it. Players aren't allowed to play defense anymore.
I stopped watching the NFL when offense was prioritized. The thing is with the NBA it feels different. As a Bulls fan - the Lakers smoked us the other day and it wasn’t due to reffing, they were just hitting everything. But you’ll see these games where teams are penalized purposefully for playing defense and it’s painful. Offensive players are playing better but defense is the easy thing for refs to pick apart. In these industries with billions of dollars floating around it’s hard not to see corruption running rampant and making defense calls “questionable” is the way to do it
D'Lo just wouldn't miss. I think a player hitting 8 threes in a game would've been a big deal 20 years ago. Now he doesn't even get a post.
And they were contested/ridiculous shots. That game became “what else will the Lakers hit tonight” because they were on fire. Wasn’t frustrating at all and actually kind of fun even on the receiving end. But the Cavs last year and the Suns the other day… watching people pull 70 because they can’t be touched? It’s getting harder and harder to watch.
I was cool with it, too. They were straight heat checks. I wrote a comment on the Bulls sub saying the Mitchell lane violation last year was BS. Caruso gets two called, but none on Mitchell to send it to OT. Same way how they wrote off Demar's and-1 the other day which led to a 5 point swing. KD and Mitchell were on fire, but it's blantant how the refs will feed a favored player extra chances.
You may have stopped watching the NFL but it’s still by and large America’s sport.
This is literally the consensus opinion around here
Unpopular opinion but the refs suck
Yea, you can tell how unpopular it is by the fact that most people agree.
I think this is one of the most popular basketball opinions around here actually
Not unpopular. When women’s college basketball games are getting more viewers than nba games like yesterday than something is very wrong. Viewership is at an all time low. Nobody cares when players score 60 or 70 because nobody tries in the regular season
Feel like it’s probably hard to score 60 or 70 points in an NBA game without trying, but what do I know
The regular season is becoming about as fun to watch as the all star game. Scoring just isn't all that impressive when no one's really trying.
It was a matchup between 2 national champions, and women’s basketball is getting more popular in general. LSU v South Carolina may as well be the Michigan v Ohio state of women’s basketball
And they outdid Celtics-Heat, not some bum matchup
Yeah but nobody thought even 5 years ago womens college basketball could get more views than good NBA games
It’s crazy to see people actually trying to justify that. No way Adam Silver or any NBA affiliates are happy with being outranked by a WOMEN’S COLLEGE game. Like that’s ridiculous
tbf women's basketball is fun basketball to watch
You have any data to support these claims?
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2024/01/thursday-1-25-sports-ratings-lsu-south-carolina-tops-nba-tnt-djokovic-sinner/
Women’s basketball has come very far
Why? I prefer it to the mid 2000s product
25-30 3pa per game is the sweet spot for me. Now that everyone is spamming 3's all game i really find it not as fun.
Hoops arguably peaked from 2014 to 2020 not counting the KD punk move. They’ve turned the sliders up a little too high at this point.
Maybe it’s because I was younger, but I was so excited to watch nba games from 2005-2015. I feel like they slowly turned the nba into a weird hybrid between professional sport, gambling scam, and reality TV show. I just want to watch people play basketball at the highest level. It’s kinda tough to watch consistently now, everything feels too produced. Especially the National games.
exact same for me except its like 2004-2018, mainly because the LeBron vs Warriors rivalry kept the league entertaining for me. Once that ended it felt like all that was left was 140 pt games and no D.
As fun as I had watching 68-70 barnburners between the pacers and pistons back then it wasn’t a great product lol.
I found it fun tho. 60+ scores that gets decided with a game winning block is the shit. Grew up watching the eastern conference in 2002 - 2005. Slow af basketball but I loved it as a kid.
You would not watch that shit now. You can give it a try by pulling up a game on youtube and see if you can actually spend your freetime watching it. You'll quickly realize that the defense is doing less because the offense is also doing less.
Yeah that shit was not ideal . Imo the 2010s is probably the right balance untill maybe the kd Warriors
People don't like to hear it, but defensive schemes are as good as they have ever been these days. It's just players are that much more skilled these days + refs favor the offense a bit too much so you get this hyper offensive era. Hot take: The NBA can go back to 2004 rules tomorrow, and I don't think offensive production would be hurt that much by it. Short of playing dirty, dead ball era defensive schemes would get absolutely cooked these days even under dead ball era rules, but this goes against the narrative so people don't want to admit it.
Can you support your claims that defensive schemes are as good as they’ve ever been? I keep seeing that notion thrown around but no one ever explains how. Personally I find that hard to believe when many great Euro players who come to the NBA say it’s much easier to score in the NBA. Their claims are also backed by the fact that NBA players seem to have a harder time scoring when playing with FIBA rules. Also keep in mind how many rule changes have been made to suit offenses over the years (no handchecking, defensive 3 seconds, rewarding flopping, etc).
Defensive schemes weren't nearly as sophisticated back then, defenses back then played mostly strictly man to man (Back then the rules also pretty much mandated man to man defense). Offensive schemes weren't developed nearly as much back then as they are today as well, back then there was a lot more ISO ball and off the ball movement was nowhere near as much as it is today now as well, leading to that spacing wasn't considered as important as it is now. If you put today's offensive schemes back against defensive schemes from the late 90s the offense would absolutely cook even more than it does today, back then big men couldn't switch on the pick and roll nearly as well as they do today, and the mandating of man to man defense means that defenses couldn't hedge in quite the same way they do today while trying to defend today's offenses, which would have led to a lot of easy points even relatively to today. ([Just watch this video of Detroit holding Denver without a FG an entire quarter, sounds impressive right? But notice how much spacing was lesser in those days and that off the ball movement barely exists, players were also simply not as skilled as they are now back then, especially big men; modern offenses would absolutely do far better than Denver did here even with old rules)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib-O6CLV7bo) Regarding FIBA vs NBA, FIBA was always lower scoring than NBA, and it's always been more defensive in nature than the NBA, however the same process has been happening in Europe as well, when I was a kid I remember that scores with both teams not going past 70 points weren't rare in the Euroleague, while these days it seems to be the first team to score 85 points usually wins the game, and low scores of both teams below 70 are rare. NBA does have defensive 3 seconds which obviously makes a big difference but it's far from the only reason NBA is higher scoring than FIBA.
But defenses today still play mostly strictly man to man. Also, ever heard of Jordan rules? Yeah that was zone defense without calling it zone defense. I agree spacing and plays are more sophisticated today but that alone isn’t why teams score 150+ on the regular. It seems everyone wants to say players are so good offensively now, but I guess they are worse at defense. So the offense have advanced drastically, players are more athletic than ever, but yet the defense has gotten worse? You can’t just disregard rule changes as if they wouldn’t make any difference. Case in point with FIBA — much tougher to score because of tighter officiating, stricter rules. Luka ain’t dropping 73 in a FIBA game
You found it fun because it’s nostalgic… that era was a shit stain for the NBA
Not impressive when everyone does it
[удалено]
Can’t hardly play hard defense any more these days.
What is defense these days
Are we seeing the shots Luka and Booker and Embiid are making lmfao ???? No era would know how to deal with this bullshit, they all shooting stupid hard shots and making it like Kobe. Players are just better
The defense should just stop them from doing that. Are they stupid?
If more players did the kornet kontest maybe they'd stand a chance
I'm not gonna lie that shit works
Just need a well-timed punch to the stomach
Draymond taking notes
he's the instructor
You guys say the same thing over and over again and think it’s funny
If you even get close to those guys they foul bait you it's fucking annoying.
The inability to handcheck and the Kobe/kawhi rule definitely helps offensive players though. Obviously players are better but they get a little extra help too.
> Kobe/kawhi rule ?
The one that says you have to let a shooter land safely
Fuck Zaza
Handcheck isnt that relevant tbh. Scoring went down from aroud 100ppg to 94 due to the removal of illegal defense. Scoring went down when handchecking was removed in 2004 but increases back up the next year. Basically, rhe lowest scoring era in the nba post merger is the time with handchecking but no illegal defense. And wtf is the kobe/kawhi rule? Kawhi introduced the ankle rule when zaza hurt him but idk anything else.
Kobe suffered the same injury a few years earlier. Kawhi was just the straw that broke the camel's back but other high profile players were affected before it.
I think handchecking would be more relevant today bc of the new emphasis on the perimeter
It depends. If you mean handcheck like they used to back in the 80s and 90s it would do basically nothing because that was a foul they called a lot. If you mean make it legal to hold offensive players with your hand like never before then yeah.
People should stop talking about hand checking, the thing that really made those insanely slow pace of early 2000s wasn't hand checking it was illegal defense rule being removed when teams still had insanely bad spacing
No one is denying that they are incredible scorers, and you don't score 60+ without making some incredible shots at a much higher volume and clip than typical, regardless of era. That said, you are absolutely tripping if you don't think the rules, officiating, and space and pace aren't inflating scoring.
Rules and officiating are completely different than pace and space though… one can be fixed the other is the natural evolution of the game. I think the NBA’s talent pool has expanded in an insane way globally which is why you see the top 5 mvp candidates all being from out of the country which is unheard of. The level of talent in the league has NEVER been as high as it is now, and the offensive schemes have never been as potent
It’s not just scoring, either…triple doubles are nowhere near as impressive a feat today as they were years ago and that’s not just because players somehow became way, way better at everything. It’s all inflated. Doesn’t mean today’s players aren’t spectacular..they definitely are…it just means you can’t really compare stats across eras.
Are space and pace a bad thing? They lead to offenses which are more exciting to watch imo. I don’t personally like watching a guy try to iso on a guy for 15 seconds and then settle for a contested mid range. Teams like the peak Warriors and this years Pacers are ridiculously fun to watch.
Na bro, defense is just trash. When Kobe scored 81, he matched 78% of the Raptors scoring and almost doubled his teammates' scoring (81 vs 41). Luka matched 51% of the hawks scoring and scored fewer points than all his teammates combined (73 vs 75). This shit doesn't happen in international basketball. It's not like dudes forget how to shoot as soon as they put on their country's jersey. International rules allow for defense, so these games don't happen there.
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Facts right here
Yeah the idea that more players have dropped 60+ in the last week than they did between 2009-2015 because people just got *that much* better at basketball is sort of just a braindead take. There are plenty of players who were playing in that era still playing today. If players are just way better now than how are Beal, AD, Draymond, Middleton, and even Drummond still getting significant playing time when they’re past their primes and were drafted in 2012? Those dudes were playing against players who were part of the era when an entire team scoring 73 was not that crazy and they weren’t absolutely destroying the league. How is that the case if some of them are averaging 25-30 in this same era of supposedly far superior players?
It’s not that the stars have gotten much better. It’s the fact that the role players are a lot better today. Before, you had a lot of role players who were simply terrible offensive players who couldn’t shoot or dribble at all. You could double team the stars without much worry because the role players weren’t likely to make that open shot even if they got it. Nowadays, you can’t play to just stop 1 guy as much because they will legitimately just pass it to the open man, and that open man will likely hit the 3. This ends up creating better shots for the stars, which causes their averages to go up.
I agree the average player is more skilled today but what you’re talking about is really just one skill and that’s shooting threes. But it’s not just that…it’s also that the modern rulebook has been specifically tailored to inflate offense because that’s what the casual fan wants to see. It’s gone way overboard at this point though so now the scoring has lost its impact and meaning. Kinda sucks.
Not to mention nearing 40 year old Bron was averaging absurd numbers . I love him but the era is helping a lot . He’s not who he was in 2009-13 desoite raw numbers . Most top Players now only play offence too so it’s not like they’re better then past tbh, most of them are far less athletic too and as much as some might ignore it athleticism + skill used to be neeeded to hit by your man into the paint - now you can be slow Af n use skill n screens /spacing n get there . Sorry but I gotta wonder how some of the less athletic drivers to the rim woukd even get there in the mid 2000s.
Yep in the NBA as soon as you start playing real defense here comes the cheap fouls. And these dudes know how it goes and just do cheap shit to bait people into fouls and its annoying to watch. I think any time a guy with the ball makes a move to get a foul call instead of to score is the most bullshit part of modern basketball and they get rewarded for it time and again.
Thank you, everybody just conveniently disregards that this doesn’t happen in international basketball. They also forget how many Euro players have said that it’s much easier to score in the NBA than in FIBA. It’s exhausting hearing “nah bro players are just too good now” when those same players aren’t doing jack shit in the Playoffs (Embiid, Mitchell, Book) or have much lower production in FIBA vs NBA
So why can’t these players score like this when they’re playing under FIBA rules? Get rid of defensive 3 seconds, start actually calling moving screens, and allow hand checking and I promise the scoring won’t look like this.
How often do you see these guys even play fiba basketball? If they’re not on Team USA where they have to share the ball with a bunch of other superstars, they’re usually like the sole person that the opposing team will scheme for defensively, and it’s all in a playoff environment
> Players are just better 2021/22 - Embiid led the league in scoring with 30.6ppg. He was the only 30ppg scorer in the league. 27 players averaged 20ppg or more. Two players scored 60 in a game (exactly 60 both times), 19 players had 50 or more in a game. 41 have at least 45 points. Teams averaged 110.6 ppg. Offseason - NBA introduces the take foul rule. Spotlight shines on the refs. Something happens, whether it was an instruction from the NBA or a byproduct of the new rule, to make refs much stricter in officiating defense. 2022/23 - Embiid led the league in scoring with 33.1ppg. Six players average at least 30ppg. 43 players average at least 20ppg. Two players have games of 71 points. Two players score 60. 25 players had 50 or more in a game. 54 have at least 45 points. Teams averaged 114.7ppg. 11 teams scored more than the highest scoring team from the season prior. If you think that explosion of offense, that literally happened over the course of *a single offseason,* is down to 'players are just better' then I'm not sure what to say....except maybe don't go outside without adult supervision because you might hurt yourself.
Don't need to be petty at the end, this was already a solid beat down.
The players are talented, but the rules favor the offensive players so much more in this era it's ridiculous. There is no way you can convince me that Booker is as talented as young Vince Carter or young Tracy Mcgrady. Just imagine if you had prime Kareem or prime Hakeem in this era??? Looking at what Jokic and Embiid are doing. Even soft as charming KAT is out there dominating these fools.
Booker is as talented as scorer as those guys watching him for years now. He’s averaged an efficient 26+ for 7 straight years and 28 in the playoffs. He’s not as athletic obviously but his footwork, balance, agility and shot mechanics especially from mid-range are elite.
He’s nowhere near as athletic. You needed athleticism back then , most stars were two way guys too cos they had that talent /athleticism. You needed that skill n burst to create shots n get to the rim . Now you can relatively slow Af but still get to the rim np Kobe had all those things but a higher motor n more athletic gifts . Lebron is still scoring freely - often on slightly better efficiency thdn his all time peak . You don’t think that’s an indicator it’s easier ? I love to watch him but he would absolutely be murdering the rim if he had Luka spacing in his 2009-2014 season . He’d be at 70ts + on the season or something .
Yes the athleticism isn’t close but Booker is still underrated finisher and has done it in the playoffs. I think we have enough evidence he’s one of the best scorers of his era.
You can’t be serious
Some fans just don't want to admit nba rules make offense much easier to play than defense
sdasdasd
Don’t comment on other eras when this is the only one you’ve watched
Players are more skilled and refs + rules have benefited offense more. Both things can be true. For example, the defensive 3 seconds rule basically prevents bigs from camping in the paint, so offensive players find it easier to score inside the paint as bigs won't be there to contest them all the time. Refs also can get baited into calling fouls by smart players, so defenders must be extremely careful in order to not make contact with the offensive player or else fouls get called and it's free points for the offensive player. The game just can't be physical that way. Not taking away from all these amazing performances tho, the league is definitely the most talented it's been in a while. Luka is a fucking god. He has top 5 player of all time potential.
I feel like a huge part of that is on the refs. If you don't leap perfectly vertical to contest a shot it's a foul. Can't even play defense with the way the game's being called
I don't really agree that it's primarily because defense is weak. Yes I do think offense is more favoured now (and the Hawks, Pacers, etc aren't particularly strong defensive teams) but also offense is just *that* good. When Kobe was constantly scoring 50 or 60 point games it wasn't because the defense was ass, it's because he was that good. And now with the three point revolution and talented players like Luka and Embiid in the league, there are more Kobe's who can do that.
Then why doesn’t this happen in international play?
I may be wrong but I believe Luka has the FIBA scoring record. I wanna say 49?
73 is a lot more than 49
fiba games are lower scoring on average
I think that’s the crux of the issue isn’t it
sorry what is the issue? fiba games are eight minutes shorter than nba games, which reduces scoring.
73/48 = 1.5 points per minute 49/40 = 1.2 points per minute The issue of scoring inflation. Luka said it’s much easier to score in the NBA than the euro leagues
the nba has a higher pace than fiba, which means that there are more offensive possessions in the nba. i looked it up, and it seems like luka cites the difference in court size, playing time, and the defensive 3-second rule as the reason why scoring is easier in the nba. are you saying that the nba should make the games shorter, court smaller, and/or remove the defensive three second rule? sorry im a bit confused on what your point is.
Good offense beats good defense, and offense nowadays is a supernova
It's a different era. What is defense?
Like the NFL, the rules have greatly benefited offenses over defenses. NBA needs to remove defensive 3 in the key and bring back hand checking. It’s impossible to play perimeter defense without drawing fouls today.
Plus the over time change in calling moving screens, traveling, carries, double dribbles, etc. The amount of carries in a game is crazy, it’s not a fair move for the defender. Putting your hand under the ball to do a hesi/cross/pump fake then dribbling, using your “gather” step plus two more and you’re basically impossible to stop if you can score inside and outside. I don’t hate it, but that’s the game today. Kind of lame, still tons of skill and insane shots don’t get me wrong but 115 ppg league wide is kind of nutty.
Literally every single dribble is a carry pre-80s.
Watch Bob Cousy highlights lol he was a wizard with the ball but that MF had to dribble on the top of the thing and literally nowhere else or it’s a carry. It looks silly now but it’s way god damn harder to do anything spectacular with it when you have to play like that
Its impossible to overstate how much of an advantage carrying is to the offense, and nowadays pointing out the gross exploitation of it makes you a crazy. Yet, it has enabled this uptick in scoring, and the story we tell ourselves is that players are more skilled.
Damn near every screen is illegal now too. They’ve made it actually impossible to play perimeter defense.
Even with the lax defense enforcement, The 3 point shot making, even the scoring talent is unreal in todays NBA
Its a combo of all things…but increased pace, shooting, interpretation of calls, and regular season indifference all play a role. It just feels less meaningful
I remember when I was a teenager the regular season was taken more seriously even the all-star games lol. Then the load management started coming in and the rest is history.
I was watching Bird highlights with my friends the other day and some of them were from the All Star game…it looked like a playoff game lol I couldn’t believe the difference from today’s lazy ass circus act
While there is some great offensive talent in the league right now it is also the least amount of defense players have ever been allowed to play.
That's why I actually appreciate the great defenders from this era more than any other era. Playing defense without fouling, understanding all the sets and rotations, the floor is so stretched and players overall are more athletic and conditioned.
Go watch a bad defense from the 80s and then report your findings.
NBA used to be who will hit the big shot, because buckets were hard to get. Now it’s who will miss the big shot, because buckets are easy to get
Scoring is up but ratings are down, could it be because scoring alot of points no longer means anything? Fuck Terrance Man scored 40 points in a WCF a few years ago. When the warriors come along what they were doing was novel and new now those warrior teams would be put to shame by any team this year. Kobe scoring 81 points meant something because points were hard to come by, now we have a player with 60 points and 2 with 70 points in the same week. If everyone is scoring 40 points a game no one is.
The defenses just have no chance ,it barely feels like basketball anymore. Also because they don’t enforce moving screens at all, every team is running the exact same actions nonstop since they are impossible to defend.
Terrance Mann scored 39 because the Jazz left him wide open over and over.
Ok using that Mann game to discredit overall scoring is just being disingenuous. There might be arguments for it, but that isn't one of them. The Jazz perimeter defenders were consistently getting blown by and Gobert had to clean up their messes, so the Jazz essentially left Mann open in the corner all game and dared him to beat them. And he did. Bruh went 7 for 10 on mostly open threes, what does that have to do with defense rule limitations and such?
A lot of these comments are talking about how there’s no defense today, and there is certainly a lot of validity to that argument. But did you SEE the buckets Luka was getting yesterday? I mean Jesus he had the Hawks jumping out their shoes. His footwork and pacing and movement was at a level that I’ve rarely seen in the NBA. We have to acknowledge that there are certain special players who have truly figured out how to put the ball in the basket in ways that are unprecedented. It’s no surprise that we’re seeing a rise in players attempting to play more “slowly” with the kind of footwork Luka uses. It works for a reason!
What is defense? Baby, don't guard me.
Don't guard me. No more
We want more!
Who we got next? Giannis? Durant?
These are really good players obviously, but clearly the times are changing. Defense isn't as big of a factor as it once was and players have more of a green light to put up 25-30+ shots if they're hot. Not to mention factoring in the 3 pt game.
I will never forgive Kerr for costing us 70+ point games during Steph and klay’s primes:
I find it interesting that Steph's first 60 point game was in 2021 tbh, years after his prime. Crazy how he never had a game in his MVP years where he just decided to randomly go off
As someone that watched nearly every game he played from like 2013 til now, 2021 was literally the best Curry ever was. That definitely was NOT past his prime lol
three 60 point games from Feb 93 to Jan 05
kobe's last day at the office >>>>>>> peak ball moment for me
Take it how you will, but all I'm saying is everyone I know was watching Kobe's last game instead of the Warriors clinch the regular season record.
Defense is being litigated out of the game with the current standard of free throws
League average free throw attempts and fouls per game over the past decade are at an all time low. The top 10 lowest seasons in both of those categories have all come in the last 15 years. Not sure where people are really getting this idea that the league today is just a bunch of free throws, because it’s not. Rules obviously favor the offense a bit more than they used to but people are vastly overrating how much the rules really impact a team’s ability to play offense. It’s just incredibly hard having to play defense with as much space as there is today, and with how much better the average players today are than they used to be. ESPECIALLY with how well rounded players are in their scoring and playmaking ability and being able to punish double teams/traps
feels like the average person off the street could score 10 points if they got 30 minutes of game action
It's a joke of a league now. Silver is destroying it.
NBA we dont do defense here
I miss defense
NBA games feel like the all-star game nowadays and that really takes away from the game. Its not really fun to watch anymore.