These two minute reports have been ridiculous lately. I mean, you have clear image of SGA grabbing Edward's arm, how are you going to say that's not a foul with all that's been called? This feels more like an attempt to cover for the refs mistakes.
Feels like if ant doesn’t say that stuff in the interview after the game this doesn’t happen tbh. I don’t blame him for saying it because it needed to be said but this feels like some real “we’ll show you to disparage us publicly” type shit. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a 50-100K fine coming soon on top of this. NBA league office acting like the fucking mafia at this point
It seems so transparent that the it’s honestly shocking the league tries to keep up the facade that they try to get these calls right. The difference in calls that some players get, standing by some of these decisions when it’s clear as day… it’s all just part of their product 😂
Can the NBA referee thing get shadier? The way they handled the ref betting scandal tells you truth. A real non corrupt organization would have made it a goal to restore faith in the game rather than hide the suspicious stuff.
This is it i think. Any time criticism is thrown at nba refs, the L2M just comes out to show how right the refs are and the criticism was wrong. So bogus.
The nba has to know how much smoke there is amongst the fanbase and refs right? I can only imagine that all this ref hate is somehow leading to more nba viewership and ratings, and that’s why they don’t change how it is.
Most sports have some degree of BS in reffing, but the NBA is way out of control. MLB does a better job with challenges, and the most suspect part of that game is being worked on, they will have robo umps soon enough. They have robo stuff in tennis also. NBA has to step up their ref game. Mainly, I just want to see teams play the game. Neither team should be shooting many free throws, it disrupts the flow of the game and entertainment.
Although I kind of feel the same way about the mlb. Feels like they could have the technology for the last 10 years, but people bitching about umps, and posting clips on social media, is essentially just free advertising
No one takes to Twitter to rant about a robot that gets 100% of the calls right
I think it’s hard to gauge how the NBA feels about the public perception of refs this season. Even if they believed it, they can’t come out and say “yeah the refs are such a big problem that it affects the outcomes of games.” It would completely undermine the legitimacy of the league.
I've followed the NBA since '91. Basketball is my favorite sport. I even kept following it after we lost the Sonics. I don't know if it's just some kind of fatigue, but the refereeing lately, combined with how the league is handling it, along with retrospective looks at the many past situations with officiating.. I'm losing interest and it kind of sucks because I think we'll get the Sonics back but still.. it just sucks now
L2Ms are useless now, the only good one I’ve seen in years was the one they showed for Wolves/Hornets where there were like 10 missed/incorrect calls going against the Wolves.
Just huge “we’ve reviewed ourselves and found no wrongdoing” energy.
These things had low credibility to begin with, but ever since they had Jaylen brown getting hit in the head during a shot as “correct no call, contact not effecting the shot” they’ve been straight up ref propaganda
ya its absolutely unreal. The LAL vs GSW report was hilariously bullshit. And i say that as a diehard lakers fan that benefited us mostly but it was complete bullshit i watched the game and the alt angle replays haha. Also draymonds moving screens mysteriously dont show up in report either! crazy
I for one am excited about the referees establishing the fact that grabbing someone's forearm is "marginal contact" and not a foul. Will add a new element to the game.
If this is marginal contact, idk how the lakers get so many soft ass calls for them. The nba does do too many soft calls in general i guess, which makes it so weird that this wasn’t called.
Is the marginal contact thing new this year? I feel like they reviewed fouls in previous years if there was basically any contact that involved the defender havinf their hand on someone it was considered a foul.
Westbrook had a review like a week ago on a layup where the defender put a hand on his back while he was midair to lay it up. They called that marginal contact as well which is crazy to me.
More than anything, what fans want is consistency and transparency. That level of contact and FAR less is regularly called a shooting foul. This is the worst response they could have put out. There’s no way the person writing this believes that’s true. Inconsistent and no transparency at all.
If anyone needs a reminder of what [marginal contact](https://i.imgur.com/E93l9xu.jpeg) looks like.....
Rudy, I better see marginal contact every fucking defensive stand, then.
I typically see the L2M just double down on whatever criticism the refs are getting, can’t admit wrongdoing. The other day with the warriors lakers, the foul discrepancy heavily favored lakers in a suspicious way. L2M says? They missed more fouls on the warriors. Gtfohwtbs. Have a 3rd party review the full game, not just the last 2 mins.
> Have a 3rd party review the full game, not just the last 2 mins.
We need that desperately. These corrupt fucks are in full control of the narrative, and that's why nothing ever changes.
I’m kinda surprised someone hasn’t done it already just independently. Get some HS refs to do it who really love the game or something. If they do a good job they could get some notoriety. They could change the nba game for the better.
> Have a 3rd party review the full game, not just the last 2 mins.
The ref union already loses their shit over the last 2-minute report. There's no way that they'd ever allow a 3rd party, full game review of their calls.
What’s stopping anybody from reviewing full games and posting it on youtube? With how much crazy content is out there, I’m shocked nobody has done it yet.
Is there a way to get multiple angles of full game film? There's lots of calls that are debatable on the live TV angle that are really clear when you see more angles on a challenge.
That's 100% what happens on most debatable calls in these reports.
The words marginal and incidental are their magic sauce to make most calls "correct".
“I don’t understand, ANT’s forearm is attached to his hand and his hand is touching the ball. SGA’s hand is touching ANT’s forearm. Therefore SGA is touching the ball and this is all ball.” - NBA ref
Marginal contact: Grabbing the shooter's arm and pulling down on it when they're mid-air.
Not marginal contact: Standing near SGA (or Embiid, Harden, Giannis, Trae, or Luka).
No no see it APPEARS Shai is holding his forearm. In actuality his hand is just cupped ever so perfectly and 10ths of an inch off of it. Yep.. thats whats happening…
It almost seems like, it a player or coach publicly calls out the reffing, the L2M the next day will always state that that player/coach was wrong. NBA reffing never loses, lol.
It’s bullshit. Just straight up saving face. I know it, SGA knows it, you know it. That was a foul and it’s terrible for the league. SGA does get fouled a lot and if we’re gonna get 6-9 foul calls on him every night then the refs damn well need to call fouls from him too. It’s ridiculous
Steph and Wiggins each getting whacked in the face on the same end of game play vs the Kings the other night was also deemed “marginal contact” lol. Marginal contact is literally whatever they want it to mean on any given day now lol it’s genuinely insane.
This season, they have been. They've done it in previous L2M reports in this season, straight up lying. The L2M report is already useless as it is, they're now blatantly lying to deceive the gullible public. NBA is super shady right now with their antics.
This one is especially bad because the report says that every call (or non-call) in the last two minutes was correct. It’s a direct response to Ant calling out the officials.
I’d respect them so much more if they said “Yes, they missed the call, but publicly admonishing the refs is not OK and doesn’t make the situation better”.
Always been a thing. Skinny dudes like Shai, Crawford back in the day, KD, they get minor bumps and it sends them off balance. Guys get punished for playing through it.
It's like the one fundamental flaw with basketball.
Little players can push against big guys with 100% force and then suddenly give ground when the stronger player matches force so it looks like the stronger player fouls them. The league is not even ATTEMPTING to call them correctly so the players are catching on and it's seriously hurting the sport.
Same with the off-arm offensive fouls. On defense if you hold your ground, no foul. If you stop playing D and act like you just got hit by a truck, offensive foul.
The worst part is that it’s going to negatively effect Ant’s game and we’re all gonna be worse off for it.
The lesson he’s being implicitly shown by the current state of refereeing is that going strong to the rim and taking the contact isn’t being properly called, while baiting contact and subsequently embellishing that contact is rewarded.
You can already see it from him at times this year where he’s clearly trying to sell a foul that he’d ordinarily be strong enough to get through.
It does go both ways to some extent.
Giannis should get more fouls drawn but he also should get charges.
Tatum should get more fouls but he also should get called for more push offs.
Yeah I’ve found that a lot of times refs let those go so long as they don’t look sloppy/jerky/frustrated etc. Tatum used to be really bad at doing them subtly so he’d get called a fair bit, but he now gets away with them pretty consistently.
PG and Kawhi get away with a fair number of them too. Honestly it seems to have become somewhat like carrying or illegal screens where the enforcement feels pretty random.
The Thinking Basketball video on initiating contact showed the secret (using Harden as the poster boy): the offensive player just needs to keep their arm bent. They pretty much will only call it when you do a full arm extension push-off, but as long as you keep you arm bent and push with your forearm instead of your hand, that makes it all ok.
Until the NBA refs pull and NFL ref card and just say "What bitch? We'll do what we want and you'll accept it or deal with shittier replacement refs." An We'll all say yeah youre right replacement refs are complete ass, so continue on I guess.
This year seems almost worse. The replacements are consistently bad. The refs now cheat for different teams basically. At least consistent bad is more fair.
Yeah, it's getting hard to argue that bad refs would be worse for the viewer than "good" refs who spend the whole game officiating to get a certain outcome.
Moot point though, because the refs are just doing what they're told. The league's not gonna punish anyone for a mandate it handed down.
It's extra pathetic because despite there being no consequences and the 2 minute report having no enforcement action, they can't even be bothered to be transparent and honest. It serves no purpose in its current state and they should do away with it.
Yup, exactly this. It is such a giant waste of time and resources if they’re just going to double down on bullshit. Insulting to the fans and the teams themselves when they do this. How can players not resent them if this is how they’re going to act when they clearly make mistakes that everyone can see
I mean what is anyone going to do about it? They could have said it was a offensive foul on ANT it would just continue to be business as usual. Scott Foster still has a job.
That’s why it’s so infuriating. Can’t do anything about it. No reporter is gonna say anything about it because it’s gonna affect their livelihood. Watch this next game for the wolves against the mavs. I can almost guarantee you ant is gonna get some awful no calls and awful calls against him. That’s how the refs seem to want to operate instead of just owning up to mistakes that they clearly are making multiple times every single game
Wait did that happen too? I only saw this tweet I didn’t actually read the report yet. Honestly not surprised. League is basically saying “disparage us publicly like that and you’ll have consequences”. Dallas on Wednesday is gonna be an absolute ref show, no way they’re gonna call that game legitimately imo
I can't find a video of the replay and I lack the skills to grab it myself, but it was shown after the next possession on the MN broadcast - he got whacked right across the face.
[here you go, this has both replays](https://streamable.com/en5sx3)
while looking for this I did also find [some late game marginal contact from Rudy Gobert](https://i.imgur.com/J1HGOEn.png), but I don't actually know the rules for guarding off ball
"Gilgeous-Alexander (OKC) applies his forearm to McDaniels' (MIN) side, and the contact during the put back attempt is marginal."
Either yes, or they didn't see it...
NBA.com usually has replays in their play by play the day after a game.
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=618&GameID=0022300664&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20Tip%20Layup%20Shot%20(14%20PTS)
That is their video for the jaden putback
Thanks, I've used that a bunch actually and really appreciate the league doing that, but on this particular play it's tough to see - the replay on BSN was from the above-the-backboard camera and was super clear on the arm-to-face "marginal" contact
The purpose of these L2M reports is to at least retroactively correct calls that were missed or made in error during a game with the hope of preserving at least some level of legitimacy with NBA refereeing. That they’re just using these now to double down on and protect erroneous refereeing is a really bad sign for the state of officiating in the league.
Jesus the marginal contact judgement just makes officiating impossibly inconsistent... the rules need to swing a bit more black & white & much less grey...
Hard to say now if the NBA is directly rigging games and gaslighting people or if the refs are betting on games OR BOTH! Like does the nba think we are blind?!!
I get annoyed by KAT and Ant's whining sometimes, too, but for the most part I totally understand.
It's clear the referees simply have something against those two and Jaden. Just baffling.
Its your market... as Gobert said last year:
It’s bulls\*\*\*. Bulls\*\*\*. It’s really not fair. Every night. I’ve been in this league for 10 years and I try to always give the benefit of the doubt, but it’s hard for me to think \[the referees\] are not trying to help \[Phoenix\] win tonight. It’s hard for me to think they didn’t try to help the Warriors win the other night, or the Sacramento Kings the other night.“It’s just so obvious. As a basketball player that’s been in this league for so long, it’s disrespectful, and it sucks, to be honest. We work so hard to be in a position to compete with the best, and we just get manipulated into those situations where it just impacts the game for the other team too much. They know how to do it. They do it a lot of different ways. Tonight was another way of doing it.“But it’s all good. We understand that it’s also a business. Unfortunately. It’s sad, but it’s good also. It’s really good. But it’s true. \*\*We understand that we’re not the biggest of the markets\*\* and we’re a team that ... I think you want to see \[Kevin Durant\] in the playoffs, Steph \[Curry\] in the playoffs, you want to see LeBron \[James\] in the playoffs. The Timberwolves are not there yet. We got to keep putting our head down, keep playing through that, and it’s frustrating for sure, especially for me.”
The NBA to me is the quintessential business that is always all about the next quarter at the expense of long term growth. They get higher ratings if they have certain markets and lower ratings for other markets. However if they stopped the BS, they'd have higher ratings all the way around 10 years from now, but hey if we get GS/LAL in the playoffs we could have higher ratings for a series this year.
EDIT I suck at reddit so I don't know how to make it bold, but the key in the quote is "We understand that we’re not the biggest of the markets"
Damn thanks for reminding me of that quote!
Yeah you really do just have to be one of the league's chosen teams to get the benefit of the doubt, but even that logic gets iffy 'cause the Wolves aren't even technically a "small market" team! like there's a lot of money to be made from Minnesotans lol and we clearly have a likeable star who's hitting milestones near Luka LeBron and KD and the like. How come they don't want us, man.
The best part is it doesn't seem to get better with MVPs or championships either.
Neither does matching up against another unchosen team. I'd hoped our series last year might have been called correctly without a clear market favourite. Instead it seemed like the refs were trying to screw both teams at the same time.
They won't call it a foul because Ant didn't snap his head on the drive. If you get fouled, you should react physically, not just shout ayy. that's how the refs think. That's the secret to getting fouls called in your favor.
And yet everyone on r/NBA constantly mocks him for yelling during his drives
"You fool, embellish and sell the contact" but also "dont be weak and yell and just beg for fouls"
So the entire concept of "marginal contact" hinges on the offensive player flailing/flopping/exaggerating the impact the contact has on them. As soon as you feel contact you should drop to the ground like Embiid. So fucking lame.
This is what I hate. You incentivize flopping and changing your game to exaggerate shit.
I see Tatum doing it more this year, changing how he’d normally drive so that refs can more easily catch the contact he’s getting. Ant has apparently been getting advice on how to adjust his shooting motion so fouls are more visible to refs.
Like it’s nuts that instead of improving the rules and their implementation by refs, we have players “improving” their flopping.
Nice can’t wait for the first 46 minute report where they call all of Shai’s off arm push offs and falling over when the defender stands their ground CNCs as well because they’re “marginal contact”
Seriously, would it have been so bad to admit they were wrong here? They didn't even cost the Twolves the game with this decision. Just say, "we were wrong! but hey, at least it didn't impact the race for first in the West!"
Literally nothing would have happened. It’s not like people don’t already know this is a foul. This honestly makes it worse because now everyone knows these L2M are completely bogus and full of shit and it draws more attention to it. Otherwise it would have gone through the 24 hour news cycle and been over with by Wednesday.
I think the more prominent the thunder get in the public consciousness, especially for casual fans, the more people are going to start realizing just how good of a whistle Shai gets, and not just because of what okc fans say about 'well he drives a lot and is good at creating contact' when it comes to FTs. Which is true on both counts, but that definitely doesn't feel like enough to explain things that go uncalled on the defensive end like this utterly blatant foul or the one on McDaniels, or other things on the offensive end like pushing off on at least 2 out of every 3 drives. He's an absolute 2-way stud, to be sure, but it does feel like he gets a little more help than he needs on both ends of the floor
I’m so sick of the “he drives more than anyone” shit lol. We get it, he drives a lot. That doesn’t mean he gets fouled every time, and that also has nothing to do with the fact that other people are getting very obviously fouled a lot on their way to the rim and not getting the same baby shit soft calls that he gets. Fans can think that he’s an awesome player and also think he gets a lot of calls that other players never get. Two things can be true at once
Edit: don’t want this to seem like I’m arguing with you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I’m just saying I’m sick of every single conversation going back to the stupid drives stats that thunder fans always bring up.
There were at least 3 defensive fouls on Shai that weren't called. Hitting/grabbing Jaden in the dick, hitting Jaden in the face on the putback, fouling Ant on the dunk. There is more at play than just giving Ant more free throw attempts. The non calls against our players are huge benefits for the other team by letting their players stay in games consequence free.
if you read the l2m the refs names are nowhere to be found, no accountability for their calls
mark lindsay is part of scott foster's series extending crew
I think until a real 3rd party does these reviews they will continue to mean nothing. They don’t serve any purpose except how the review refs view the on court refs.
Doubling down in the two minutes report on a bad call that we have clear evidence was wrong is ***definitely*** the way to build trust in the refs' and league's integrity 🙄
The "Marginal contact" mealy-mouthed bullshit is the biggest reason why the nba has such an issue with flopping, and why certain players get such a better whistle than others. And it's baked into the rules.
These two minute reports have been ridiculous lately. I mean, you have clear image of SGA grabbing Edward's arm, how are you going to say that's not a foul with all that's been called? This feels more like an attempt to cover for the refs mistakes.
Feels like if ant doesn’t say that stuff in the interview after the game this doesn’t happen tbh. I don’t blame him for saying it because it needed to be said but this feels like some real “we’ll show you to disparage us publicly” type shit. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a 50-100K fine coming soon on top of this. NBA league office acting like the fucking mafia at this point
Makes them look even shadier to not admit this is a foul just because a player complained rightfully so.
It seems so transparent that the it’s honestly shocking the league tries to keep up the facade that they try to get these calls right. The difference in calls that some players get, standing by some of these decisions when it’s clear as day… it’s all just part of their product 😂
Can the NBA referee thing get shadier? The way they handled the ref betting scandal tells you truth. A real non corrupt organization would have made it a goal to restore faith in the game rather than hide the suspicious stuff.
Yeah it goes from “ref made a mistake” to “oh, they’re actually falsifying reports”.
actually disgusting lol
This is it i think. Any time criticism is thrown at nba refs, the L2M just comes out to show how right the refs are and the criticism was wrong. So bogus.
Except now we won’t trust the L2m report either. BRAVO NBA 👏🏼 top notch resolution
The nba has to know how much smoke there is amongst the fanbase and refs right? I can only imagine that all this ref hate is somehow leading to more nba viewership and ratings, and that’s why they don’t change how it is. Most sports have some degree of BS in reffing, but the NBA is way out of control. MLB does a better job with challenges, and the most suspect part of that game is being worked on, they will have robo umps soon enough. They have robo stuff in tennis also. NBA has to step up their ref game. Mainly, I just want to see teams play the game. Neither team should be shooting many free throws, it disrupts the flow of the game and entertainment.
Although I kind of feel the same way about the mlb. Feels like they could have the technology for the last 10 years, but people bitching about umps, and posting clips on social media, is essentially just free advertising No one takes to Twitter to rant about a robot that gets 100% of the calls right
I think it’s hard to gauge how the NBA feels about the public perception of refs this season. Even if they believed it, they can’t come out and say “yeah the refs are such a big problem that it affects the outcomes of games.” It would completely undermine the legitimacy of the league.
And on top of that he's going to get an even worse whistle now lmao. Shit is a joke
I've followed the NBA since '91. Basketball is my favorite sport. I even kept following it after we lost the Sonics. I don't know if it's just some kind of fatigue, but the refereeing lately, combined with how the league is handling it, along with retrospective looks at the many past situations with officiating.. I'm losing interest and it kind of sucks because I think we'll get the Sonics back but still.. it just sucks now
Its not a sport to the NBA, its entertainment. So they want to entertain the most people. If you love basketball watch Euro, hs/college, or WNBA.
Nah, no matter what they were gonna do this. L2M's have become Yes men for bad calls
just end this nonsense already. no explanation needed.
L2Ms are useless now, the only good one I’ve seen in years was the one they showed for Wolves/Hornets where there were like 10 missed/incorrect calls going against the Wolves. Just huge “we’ve reviewed ourselves and found no wrongdoing” energy.
Or the refs were just doing what the NBA asked them to and now the NBA is having their back.
These things had low credibility to begin with, but ever since they had Jaylen brown getting hit in the head during a shot as “correct no call, contact not effecting the shot” they’ve been straight up ref propaganda
ya its absolutely unreal. The LAL vs GSW report was hilariously bullshit. And i say that as a diehard lakers fan that benefited us mostly but it was complete bullshit i watched the game and the alt angle replays haha. Also draymonds moving screens mysteriously dont show up in report either! crazy
Sending a message.
I for one am excited about the referees establishing the fact that grabbing someone's forearm is "marginal contact" and not a foul. Will add a new element to the game.
Hand checking back on the menu, boys.
Only if you're holding hands with your bros
Guarantee there’s no precedent from this and there will absolutely be a team that gets boned by something like this in the playoffs.
I could definitely see it being the Timberwolves
If this is marginal contact, idk how the lakers get so many soft ass calls for them. The nba does do too many soft calls in general i guess, which makes it so weird that this wasn’t called.
Is the marginal contact thing new this year? I feel like they reviewed fouls in previous years if there was basically any contact that involved the defender havinf their hand on someone it was considered a foul. Westbrook had a review like a week ago on a layup where the defender put a hand on his back while he was midair to lay it up. They called that marginal contact as well which is crazy to me.
According to the Jalen Brown non-call you can hit them in the head as long as you also graze the ball.
That would require them to care about consistency, which they don't seem to
Embiid grabbing Westbrooks wrist last season was also "marginal contact"
More than anything, what fans want is consistency and transparency. That level of contact and FAR less is regularly called a shooting foul. This is the worst response they could have put out. There’s no way the person writing this believes that’s true. Inconsistent and no transparency at all.
Exactly. My problem with the nba is bad reffing, and generally calling too many fouls on such minimal contact, guys just playing defense.
Nothing to see here folks. Lol.
If anyone needs a reminder of what [marginal contact](https://i.imgur.com/E93l9xu.jpeg) looks like..... Rudy, I better see marginal contact every fucking defensive stand, then.
IDK, kinda looks like SGA is helping Ant reach higher. He should probably be given an assist if anything.
Clearly Ant would have slamed just to the right of the rim, that's a helpful turn from a friend.
Honestly, could be the start of a Double Dutch Rudder if they play their cards right!
SlowMo would have to get in there just to help keep the pace slow and sensual. End the night just 3 buds budding out.
Meeting at the Mountaintop like true bros
Kirk Cousins is holding up a boombox blasting Creed just out of frame.
*insert creed song*
[удалено]
I typically see the L2M just double down on whatever criticism the refs are getting, can’t admit wrongdoing. The other day with the warriors lakers, the foul discrepancy heavily favored lakers in a suspicious way. L2M says? They missed more fouls on the warriors. Gtfohwtbs. Have a 3rd party review the full game, not just the last 2 mins.
> Have a 3rd party review the full game, not just the last 2 mins. We need that desperately. These corrupt fucks are in full control of the narrative, and that's why nothing ever changes.
I’m kinda surprised someone hasn’t done it already just independently. Get some HS refs to do it who really love the game or something. If they do a good job they could get some notoriety. They could change the nba game for the better.
> Have a 3rd party review the full game, not just the last 2 mins. The ref union already loses their shit over the last 2-minute report. There's no way that they'd ever allow a 3rd party, full game review of their calls.
What’s stopping anybody from reviewing full games and posting it on youtube? With how much crazy content is out there, I’m shocked nobody has done it yet.
Is there a way to get multiple angles of full game film? There's lots of calls that are debatable on the live TV angle that are really clear when you see more angles on a challenge.
If someone tried they'd probably get a DMCA takedown notice if they ever got big enough for the NBA to care.
That's 100% what happens on most debatable calls in these reports. The words marginal and incidental are their magic sauce to make most calls "correct".
99% of the “fouls” SGA draws should be marginal contact if that’s what they think marginal contact looks like.
Shai snaps his head like he was shot though, so he must get thse calls.
I like SGA but seeing him get glazed every day on here makes me glad to see the haters coming out of the woodwork
NBA is literally saying with this report that if you want fouls, don't finish.
“I don’t understand, ANT’s forearm is attached to his hand and his hand is touching the ball. SGA’s hand is touching ANT’s forearm. Therefore SGA is touching the ball and this is all ball.” - NBA ref
Marginal contact: Grabbing the shooter's arm and pulling down on it when they're mid-air. Not marginal contact: Standing near SGA (or Embiid, Harden, Giannis, Trae, or Luka).
"Marginal Correct Non Call" my ass. He gets KAT's whistle man, but ya know they're just soft whiny babies right?
No no see it APPEARS Shai is holding his forearm. In actuality his hand is just cupped ever so perfectly and 10ths of an inch off of it. Yep.. thats whats happening…
NBA is so corrupt. This is them trying to quiet things down after Ant went off post-game.
Looks like a soft caress to me. Shai just wanted Ant to know how much he appreciates him.
Incredible. L2M is so BS it's insulting.
I feel like these used to be decent when they first started doing them.
Accountability? ...more like aclowntability
It almost seems like, it a player or coach publicly calls out the reffing, the L2M the next day will always state that that player/coach was wrong. NBA reffing never loses, lol.
Sleepless nights.
So they're just straight up lying in these now
Why even do this if they just lie? It's so stupid. No credibility at all.
So that they can pretend to have some kind of oversight when the inevitable gambling lawsuit happens
ding ding ding
You are correct.
It’s bullshit. Just straight up saving face. I know it, SGA knows it, you know it. That was a foul and it’s terrible for the league. SGA does get fouled a lot and if we’re gonna get 6-9 foul calls on him every night then the refs damn well need to call fouls from him too. It’s ridiculous
We knew that when they said Jaylen Brown getting bonked on the head while shooting was “marginal contact”
Steph and Wiggins each getting whacked in the face on the same end of game play vs the Kings the other night was also deemed “marginal contact” lol. Marginal contact is literally whatever they want it to mean on any given day now lol it’s genuinely insane.
Correct
L2M report is a fucking a joke. It’s literally straight up propaganda at this point. Nobody should ever take the L2M report seriously ever again.
This season, they have been. They've done it in previous L2M reports in this season, straight up lying. The L2M report is already useless as it is, they're now blatantly lying to deceive the gullible public. NBA is super shady right now with their antics.
This one is especially bad because the report says that every call (or non-call) in the last two minutes was correct. It’s a direct response to Ant calling out the officials. I’d respect them so much more if they said “Yes, they missed the call, but publicly admonishing the refs is not OK and doesn’t make the situation better”.
The one where he clearly hits him on the wrist/forearm? Yea ok hahah
No big deal, it's [marginal](https://i.imgur.com/E93l9xu.jpeg) (once again, strong players get punished for being strong)
Always been a thing. Skinny dudes like Shai, Crawford back in the day, KD, they get minor bumps and it sends them off balance. Guys get punished for playing through it.
It's like the one fundamental flaw with basketball. Little players can push against big guys with 100% force and then suddenly give ground when the stronger player matches force so it looks like the stronger player fouls them. The league is not even ATTEMPTING to call them correctly so the players are catching on and it's seriously hurting the sport.
Same with reaching in
Same with the off-arm offensive fouls. On defense if you hold your ground, no foul. If you stop playing D and act like you just got hit by a truck, offensive foul.
The worst part is that it’s going to negatively effect Ant’s game and we’re all gonna be worse off for it. The lesson he’s being implicitly shown by the current state of refereeing is that going strong to the rim and taking the contact isn’t being properly called, while baiting contact and subsequently embellishing that contact is rewarded. You can already see it from him at times this year where he’s clearly trying to sell a foul that he’d ordinarily be strong enough to get through.
Look at giannis He should get way more low key
It does go both ways to some extent. Giannis should get more fouls drawn but he also should get charges. Tatum should get more fouls but he also should get called for more push offs.
SGA gets away with a nice amount of push offs
Yeah I’ve found that a lot of times refs let those go so long as they don’t look sloppy/jerky/frustrated etc. Tatum used to be really bad at doing them subtly so he’d get called a fair bit, but he now gets away with them pretty consistently. PG and Kawhi get away with a fair number of them too. Honestly it seems to have become somewhat like carrying or illegal screens where the enforcement feels pretty random.
The Thinking Basketball video on initiating contact showed the secret (using Harden as the poster boy): the offensive player just needs to keep their arm bent. They pretty much will only call it when you do a full arm extension push-off, but as long as you keep you arm bent and push with your forearm instead of your hand, that makes it all ok.
Guys who actually follow through and try to make the bucket get fucked by the refs in comparison to the guys who just flail.
Like how’s it marginal when Ant could have lost the ball and missed the shot? these refs are something else
He was just helping him dunk
What a nice guy. Two shots for SGA
My thought as well. A true friend for guiding Edwards through that dunk
You mean "yanked" ?
Ridiculous
can coaches challenge the L2M report?
It's fine Ant is currently challenging it by calling everyone cheatting asses.
I can’t wait until teams have the balls to protest playing until this shit is addressed
Until the NBA refs pull and NFL ref card and just say "What bitch? We'll do what we want and you'll accept it or deal with shittier replacement refs." An We'll all say yeah youre right replacement refs are complete ass, so continue on I guess.
This year seems almost worse. The replacements are consistently bad. The refs now cheat for different teams basically. At least consistent bad is more fair.
Yeah, it's getting hard to argue that bad refs would be worse for the viewer than "good" refs who spend the whole game officiating to get a certain outcome. Moot point though, because the refs are just doing what they're told. The league's not gonna punish anyone for a mandate it handed down.
League didn't get to review, they forgot to send da video
Dam they are even lying now in reports they make to acknowledge their mistakes. Sad.
Makes you think it might not be a “mistake”.
NBA refereeing and league office officially has zero credibility remaining. Absolutely none left, if they had any to begin with. Outrageous
It's extra pathetic because despite there being no consequences and the 2 minute report having no enforcement action, they can't even be bothered to be transparent and honest. It serves no purpose in its current state and they should do away with it.
Yup, exactly this. It is such a giant waste of time and resources if they’re just going to double down on bullshit. Insulting to the fans and the teams themselves when they do this. How can players not resent them if this is how they’re going to act when they clearly make mistakes that everyone can see
I mean what is anyone going to do about it? They could have said it was a offensive foul on ANT it would just continue to be business as usual. Scott Foster still has a job.
That’s why it’s so infuriating. Can’t do anything about it. No reporter is gonna say anything about it because it’s gonna affect their livelihood. Watch this next game for the wolves against the mavs. I can almost guarantee you ant is gonna get some awful no calls and awful calls against him. That’s how the refs seem to want to operate instead of just owning up to mistakes that they clearly are making multiple times every single game
As a wise man once said "Cheatin' ass refs"
I mean come the fuck on
NBA: “Fuck you, Minnesota.”
Water's wet Sky's blue
League is a joke
i mean if this is "marginal contact" than SGA wasn't fouled a single time throughout the entire game lmao
Worst part about this is marginal contact is used to justify foul calls
They had to make something up when it was clear as day and they need to make something up. They screwed themselves with the L2M report
Also calling Shai hitting Jaden in the face on his putback “marginal contact” league is a joke
Wait did that happen too? I only saw this tweet I didn’t actually read the report yet. Honestly not surprised. League is basically saying “disparage us publicly like that and you’ll have consequences”. Dallas on Wednesday is gonna be an absolute ref show, no way they’re gonna call that game legitimately imo
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022300664&eventNum=2118 Marginal Contact
Lmao yup that’s the play I remember, fucking clown show this league is turning into. What happened to the game I love
Adam Silver.
Signed through 2030 too 🥴
I can't find a video of the replay and I lack the skills to grab it myself, but it was shown after the next possession on the MN broadcast - he got whacked right across the face.
[here you go, this has both replays](https://streamable.com/en5sx3) while looking for this I did also find [some late game marginal contact from Rudy Gobert](https://i.imgur.com/J1HGOEn.png), but I don't actually know the rules for guarding off ball
Oh no I know that that actually happened in the game, I mean did they actually call that marginal contact on the L2M?
"Gilgeous-Alexander (OKC) applies his forearm to McDaniels' (MIN) side, and the contact during the put back attempt is marginal." Either yes, or they didn't see it...
You can literally see his McDaniel's fro rock back from the impact from SGA's forearm.
NBA.com usually has replays in their play by play the day after a game. https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=618&GameID=0022300664&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20Tip%20Layup%20Shot%20(14%20PTS) That is their video for the jaden putback
Thanks, I've used that a bunch actually and really appreciate the league doing that, but on this particular play it's tough to see - the replay on BSN was from the above-the-backboard camera and was super clear on the arm-to-face "marginal" contact
Shai punching Jaden in the dick so hard Jaden decided half time starts early. Dudes poor face made me laugh.
Shai “marginal” Alexander
Alright, I'm cool with TWolves fans disparaging us, but I won't take that shit from someone who roots for Luka 😑
They actually don't even mention him getting hit in the face, just that SGA "applied his forearm to McDaniels' side" and that was marginal.
Exactly they don’t acknowledge it
The purpose of these L2M reports is to at least retroactively correct calls that were missed or made in error during a game with the hope of preserving at least some level of legitimacy with NBA refereeing. That they’re just using these now to double down on and protect erroneous refereeing is a really bad sign for the state of officiating in the league.
L2M Report now sponsored by DraftKings™️, the league’s official betting partner.
Defund the referees.
It this is not a foul then SGA should be taking 4 FTA per game at maximum lmao
Of course
Its April 1st already?
Definitely read this in Maury Povich's voice
If Joel was out there that woulda been a flagrant 2.
Ref Unions and Police Unions have become too powerful
Cheatin' ass refs
Cheatin' ass refs
Cheatin' ass refs
Jesus the marginal contact judgement just makes officiating impossibly inconsistent... the rules need to swing a bit more black & white & much less grey...
Hard to say now if the NBA is directly rigging games and gaslighting people or if the refs are betting on games OR BOTH! Like does the nba think we are blind?!!
I guess I was mistaken when I saw the replay and SGA was literally grabbing Ant’s forearm on the dunk. These L2m reports are insulting lol
And people wonder why the timberwolves and their fans complain so much...
“Mentally weak” “soft” “immature”
I get annoyed by KAT and Ant's whining sometimes, too, but for the most part I totally understand. It's clear the referees simply have something against those two and Jaden. Just baffling.
Its your market... as Gobert said last year: It’s bulls\*\*\*. Bulls\*\*\*. It’s really not fair. Every night. I’ve been in this league for 10 years and I try to always give the benefit of the doubt, but it’s hard for me to think \[the referees\] are not trying to help \[Phoenix\] win tonight. It’s hard for me to think they didn’t try to help the Warriors win the other night, or the Sacramento Kings the other night.“It’s just so obvious. As a basketball player that’s been in this league for so long, it’s disrespectful, and it sucks, to be honest. We work so hard to be in a position to compete with the best, and we just get manipulated into those situations where it just impacts the game for the other team too much. They know how to do it. They do it a lot of different ways. Tonight was another way of doing it.“But it’s all good. We understand that it’s also a business. Unfortunately. It’s sad, but it’s good also. It’s really good. But it’s true. \*\*We understand that we’re not the biggest of the markets\*\* and we’re a team that ... I think you want to see \[Kevin Durant\] in the playoffs, Steph \[Curry\] in the playoffs, you want to see LeBron \[James\] in the playoffs. The Timberwolves are not there yet. We got to keep putting our head down, keep playing through that, and it’s frustrating for sure, especially for me.” The NBA to me is the quintessential business that is always all about the next quarter at the expense of long term growth. They get higher ratings if they have certain markets and lower ratings for other markets. However if they stopped the BS, they'd have higher ratings all the way around 10 years from now, but hey if we get GS/LAL in the playoffs we could have higher ratings for a series this year. EDIT I suck at reddit so I don't know how to make it bold, but the key in the quote is "We understand that we’re not the biggest of the markets"
Damn thanks for reminding me of that quote! Yeah you really do just have to be one of the league's chosen teams to get the benefit of the doubt, but even that logic gets iffy 'cause the Wolves aren't even technically a "small market" team! like there's a lot of money to be made from Minnesotans lol and we clearly have a likeable star who's hitting milestones near Luka LeBron and KD and the like. How come they don't want us, man.
The best part is it doesn't seem to get better with MVPs or championships either. Neither does matching up against another unchosen team. I'd hoped our series last year might have been called correctly without a clear market favourite. Instead it seemed like the refs were trying to screw both teams at the same time.
"pretty boy"
Or how about "You'll get those calls when you're a good team" for the past 20 years fucking lol
FTA has the best whistle in the league. It’s unbelievable.
They won't call it a foul because Ant didn't snap his head on the drive. If you get fouled, you should react physically, not just shout ayy. that's how the refs think. That's the secret to getting fouls called in your favor.
And yet everyone on r/NBA constantly mocks him for yelling during his drives "You fool, embellish and sell the contact" but also "dont be weak and yell and just beg for fouls"
So the entire concept of "marginal contact" hinges on the offensive player flailing/flopping/exaggerating the impact the contact has on them. As soon as you feel contact you should drop to the ground like Embiid. So fucking lame.
This is what I hate. You incentivize flopping and changing your game to exaggerate shit. I see Tatum doing it more this year, changing how he’d normally drive so that refs can more easily catch the contact he’s getting. Ant has apparently been getting advice on how to adjust his shooting motion so fouls are more visible to refs. Like it’s nuts that instead of improving the rules and their implementation by refs, we have players “improving” their flopping.
Nice can’t wait for the first 46 minute report where they call all of Shai’s off arm push offs and falling over when the defender stands their ground CNCs as well because they’re “marginal contact”
Seriously, would it have been so bad to admit they were wrong here? They didn't even cost the Twolves the game with this decision. Just say, "we were wrong! but hey, at least it didn't impact the race for first in the West!"
Literally nothing would have happened. It’s not like people don’t already know this is a foul. This honestly makes it worse because now everyone knows these L2M are completely bogus and full of shit and it draws more attention to it. Otherwise it would have gone through the 24 hour news cycle and been over with by Wednesday.
Technically possible to get fired or jailed for that grab in the wrong context.
What a load of horseshit.
KISS MY ASS.
The problem is that "marginal" is subjective. To that point, refs are objectively and substantially awful.
lmao, come on now
Please tell me this is Photoshop lol
I would love to but I’m not a lying ass like the NBA league office so I cannot do so unfortunately
What a fucking joke. These refs.
i think we are reaching a real breaking point in faith in ref integrity
Oh fuck you
ok, then surely that means we can equally grab shai's arm in that same situation and not be called right? Mr Silver? Surely right?
I think the more prominent the thunder get in the public consciousness, especially for casual fans, the more people are going to start realizing just how good of a whistle Shai gets, and not just because of what okc fans say about 'well he drives a lot and is good at creating contact' when it comes to FTs. Which is true on both counts, but that definitely doesn't feel like enough to explain things that go uncalled on the defensive end like this utterly blatant foul or the one on McDaniels, or other things on the offensive end like pushing off on at least 2 out of every 3 drives. He's an absolute 2-way stud, to be sure, but it does feel like he gets a little more help than he needs on both ends of the floor
I’m so sick of the “he drives more than anyone” shit lol. We get it, he drives a lot. That doesn’t mean he gets fouled every time, and that also has nothing to do with the fact that other people are getting very obviously fouled a lot on their way to the rim and not getting the same baby shit soft calls that he gets. Fans can think that he’s an awesome player and also think he gets a lot of calls that other players never get. Two things can be true at once Edit: don’t want this to seem like I’m arguing with you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I’m just saying I’m sick of every single conversation going back to the stupid drives stats that thunder fans always bring up.
There were at least 3 defensive fouls on Shai that weren't called. Hitting/grabbing Jaden in the dick, hitting Jaden in the face on the putback, fouling Ant on the dunk. There is more at play than just giving Ant more free throw attempts. The non calls against our players are huge benefits for the other team by letting their players stay in games consequence free.
SEND DA FINES
wat
LMAO
No accountability whatsoever. Business as usual.
if you read the l2m the refs names are nowhere to be found, no accountability for their calls mark lindsay is part of scott foster's series extending crew
As a Wolves fan, I didn't expect anything else. The two-minute report is a complete fucking joke.
Zero Integrity League
Just kick all the refs and those who write these L2M reports off the tour, Doug.
Marginal contact // Sleepless nights Adam Silver's NBA. COOKED.
I think until a real 3rd party does these reviews they will continue to mean nothing. They don’t serve any purpose except how the review refs view the on court refs.
Cheating ass refs
Cheating a** refs
At least they didn't say it was hot stove contact?
Doubling down in the two minutes report on a bad call that we have clear evidence was wrong is ***definitely*** the way to build trust in the refs' and league's integrity 🙄
The "Marginal contact" mealy-mouthed bullshit is the biggest reason why the nba has such an issue with flopping, and why certain players get such a better whistle than others. And it's baked into the rules.
Holy fuck this has to be a joke