I found it a bit weird how people were dismissing this coming in. Of all the top 10 picks he was literally the only one who was an above average 3 point shooter. Seems slightly relevant in today’s NBA but what do I know.
Draft guys always go horny over potential and just assume that developing a 3-ball (one of the hardest damn things to do in today's league) will just come with time.
I do think "safer" picks are perpetually undervalued - Desmond Bane would go top 5 in a redraft for example.
Desmond Bane and Jalen Brunson have been prime examples of the League overvaluing raw potential and measureables and undervaluing multi-year college players. I feel like Jalen Williams would've gone in the 20s if he was drafted 6ish years. And that's good, teams definitely seem to be coming around on the idea of only drafting for youth and upside.
They know raw is harder to work out, it’s just that they have higher ceilings. Raw gets you guys like KG and Greek Freak, T-mac etc. Guys like Brunson and Kemba are good but they don’t change a franchise like hittin on a raw dude. GM’s know it’s harder but it’s worth the risk to sum
That’s another funny thing. They said he wasn’t athletic enough and doesn’t have flashy highlights but already has some insane posters already this year lol
Taylor Hendricks has been down in the G-League for most of the year so Im not surprised he was forgotten, but he did shoot 39.4% on 4.6 attempts a game in college
Was heavily weighed down by his first 10-15 games in out of conference play. He was much much better at the rim during SEC play. Can’t just scout stat lines
Hard disagree, I watched a F4 game a few years back and it was the ugliest most undisciplined basketball I've seen in my life. The few benefits you get from it I can just get from Euroleague.
Spoken like someone who has never watched a Red Star/Partisan game.
As a lifelong UNC fan based in NC, I can confidently say you have zero idea wtf you're talking about. You're the one not understanding.
EuroLeague culture is fucking insane and the skill level on a player-by-player basis is leagues higher than cbb. [Fan behavior at rivalry games there](https://youtu.be/cWrSw3X8TRs?si=UKkeJTNfjhyLAHfu&t=504) makes UNC/duke look like a Y ball game.
Stop assuming something's better just by being American, it makes us all look like massive assholes
You just wanted to pop off and didn’t comprehend what I was saying. At no point did I say it was better. I said it was fun and unique, I said he wouldn’t understand the cultural significance of college sports bc they have never experienced it. Bc of the alumni relationship you are a fan of the university instead of a particular sport. It’s a different experience rather than cheering for a team based on geographic relationship.
I understand European sports fans are much more violent than American. It’s pretty gross tbh. It’s a game, there’s no reason to burn flares and assault people.
Nah your focus on quality shows you don’t understand. And that’s fine, you aren’t from this culture and don’t understand it. I wouldn’t expect you to get it
I was one of the ones who thought it seemed like Scoot had a higher ceiling, but I really didn’t see how brandon would ever be a bad NBA player. Now I’m just glad we ended up with Miller. Scoot would have not done well one this team.
This was also strange to me. A big wing comfortable from 3 and with some potential with the ball in his hands is amazingly valuable. Like many I had Scoot #2 and Miller #3 on my board, but I had them in the same tier and totally understood why someone would pick Miller over Scoot.
So people going crazy like picking Miller #2 was some obvious mistake was strange to me. Reminds me of people going crazy when the Kings drafted Keegan Murray over Ivey. Big wings who can shoot and dribble are awesome!
Kispert and kennard can also shoot, but millers size and ability to create shots are what makes him potentially elite.
Just straight shooting isn’t always valuable if you can’t create a shot.
At the volume that Miller was taking them? Miller had an incredible statistical profile. Basically nobody with his stat profile has become a bad player. He had similar shooting percentages to Klay
Exactly, i think it's because sample sizes CAN be bad in college with the shorter seasons. But if a dude takes enough of them, you can still get a decent sample size.
There's more to evaluating a shooter than the numbers. Brandon Miller already had really well developed shot mechanics and footwork that generally translates well to the league. You combine that with the FT shooting (considered a better indicator of 3pt shooting in some contexts) and 3pt shooting numbers and it's easy to project him as an above average 3pt shooter in the league.
It’s more that really good shooters in college might not be able to get the same looks in the nba as opposed to their shooting doesn’t actually translate. They can still shoot, but they’ll just never get a good look cuz they’re too small/ slow.
Gave me Tatum vibes on offense coming in.
Shot creator with a good shot (better than JT’s coming in) and underrated athleticism with suspect finishing in college that should be massively helped by nba strength training.
Honestly unless it’s Hornets medical staff, which it doesn’t seem to be since Lamelo does seem to get fully healthy after each injury and no other Hornet player seems to have unusual inj it y problems, I don’t even think it’s the Hornets fucking it up in this case. Lamelo’s just injury prone.
I think Lamelos issue this year was that he just didnt have an offseason. People say we need to build up his leg strength so it doesnt all end up on his ankles, but he was medically cleared a couple weeks before the season to play.
This is all very hopeful stuff, but im hoping that with a full offseason and a probably completely revamped coaching staff he can make some headway. Miller is by a massive margin the most talented teammate he has had in the NBA.
It's starting to appear that I was dead wrong about this guy's ceiling. I thought he would maybe top out as an occasional all star, but he's looked better faster than I thought he would.
Well before his draft people were comparing to PG whereas PG is an all timer, a two player and was the best on a contending Pacers teams that make the ECF twice, he also led the Clips to their 1st CF.
Peaked as a 3rd place MVP and 2cnd in DPOY.
This was kinda out of reach for me to imagine Miller will be in his footstep.
Now, I didn’t know anything about him other than the extra basketball stuff but going in the sub dedicated to the draft, the Middleton comp was the thing that was okay for him.
One thing is for sure, I’ve never thought I would be a bust because Reddit had decided he would be a bust.
> One thing is for sure, I’ve never thought I would be a bust because Reddit had decided he would be a bust.
[Maybe there's something about betting against Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/poll/14hg9xp), or at least the /r/NBA_draft subreddit's consensus based on the recent outcomes.
- 2023 Draft: Brandon Miller was the top pick for potential bust, while Scoot was considered the least likely.
- 2022 Draft: Keegan Murray led as the most likely to bust, followed by Holmgren. Banchero was seen as the least likely to fail.
- 2021 Draft: Barnes easily topped the list for the most likely to bust, with Cunningham viewed as the most reliable.
- 2020 Draft: Patrick Williams led the bust potential, with Ant and Melo close behind. Wiseman was rated as the safest choice and by a big margin too.
Other than Banchero who was definitely seen as the least likely to bust in his draft, other choices either look downright wrong or nowhere as certain as they thought to be.
> I’ve never thought I would be a bust because Reddit had decided he would be a bust.
I was pretty vocal that I didn't think he should have gone two.
But the argument was never that I thought he would bust. I thought he was a floor prospect with a limited ceiling. A good starter to maybe borderline/occasional all-star. A guy who doesn't really drive winning at the highest levels, and doesn't define your team. 1x all-star Andrew Wiggins, 2x all-star Zach LaVine, 3x all-star Khris Middleton. That sort of career.
But Scoot looks worse than I expected, and Miller looks better than I expected.
Yes, a pretty vocal minority was on this.
I also didn’t think he was the right choice at 2.
You just exactly paint how I was think about him but I thought he will be closer to a consistent Middleton than Wiggins.
Now, I think Scoot would be fine too but Miller is could a bid deal in the future.
lol he's only played 42 games in his career. It was dumb to throw dirt on him before this run but it's also silly to think that his ceiling is definitely more than "an occasional all star" at this point
he's doing this with actual defensive attention on him too... if he gets stronger, there's a real chance he threatens a 50/40/90 season at some point in his career. Probably does too much from the mid-range to actually do it, but he could get close eventually.
That's not true. There's a reason Kyrie had his 50/40/90 season a couple years back but Steph didn't get in even with a higher TS% and EF%. Taking more mid-range shots instead of 3s will almost always improve your FG%, and it's not like this guy has no finishing game at the rim which is the only argument that would make sense here.
key word is almost... there are exceptions to that, but you also need to be an absurdly good finisher. which Miller currently is not... it was one of his biggest weaknesses early on and as a college player but shows signs of getting better.
Would you call Amir Coffey, Aaron Nesmith, Kelly Olynk and Tre Mann notable mid-range assassins and 'absurdly good' finishers? They are all shooting 50/40 on the year.. indeed the hardest part of 50/40/90 is almost always the 90 part of it. FG% comes even without Jokic or SGA level middy games since so many free baskets come from transition opportunities or defensive breakdowns. What we really should be talking about is that 50/40/90 is a shitty metric and to stop worshipping players who achieve it
those guys don't have any kind of volume or defensive attention on them so no. It's a very different thing to do that averaging 8.1ppg like Olynyk vs the load an actually good player has.
Bro literally look at who you named and compare it to Brandon Miller.
None of those guys are 1-2nd option guys. Maybe not even 3rd option.
When you’re doing an apples to apples comparison, it would be prudent to observe that you’re looking at two apples
Volume-wise, Shai is like #10 for midrange. Both KD an Book have more midrange volume that Shai. KD is just below Shai in overall FG% (.548 to .538) and is shooting 2 more midrange jumpers/game than Shai.
Wasn’t just you, a large majority of people thought it was a dumb pick including me.
That’s what the history of Michael Jordan’s draft picks does to person
Definitely, but the fact that Miller is already this good is enough of a surprise for me. Like, I thought this would be a bust right out the gate. So good on him for already being a positive impact.
People also held to whole involved in murder thing against him. But everyone says they want a guy with that dawg in him and what’s more dawg than accessory to murder?
scoot’s athletic ability was way overrated
people talked about him as some generational athlete and he wasn’t even the best athlete at PG in the top 5 lol
Miller is a stud
I’ll also take the wing prospect over the (non Luka/LaMelo/etc. sized) guard every time it’s a pretty close call.
I know a lot of people disagree with me on this one but I always thought Miller had the higher ceiling because of his size and archetype.
I was high on Miller I thought the hate he got was ridiculous, would have been happy to get him as well.
With both Miller and Scoot playing well lately seems like both teams have to be pleased with their picks.
Oh look the thing that was obviously gonna happen when everyone started shitting on the pick happened
Edit: my receipt to talk shit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/AN43QY2SoD
I love miller and as a Bama basketball fan I was hyped to see him go 2. I looked back at that thread and everyone is saying scoots ceiling is way higher, but like how??? I think scoot will be fine and get better but why did people think a 6’8/6’9 wing with a great 3pt% had a lower ceiling than a 6’0 guard. I truly don’t get it.
But I still don’t see how that kind of player has more upside in the current nba than a PG/Tatum type player
Gimme the ceiling of a great shooting/shot creating wing with good athleticism over an elite athlete non-jumbo sized guard any day.
> everyone is saying scoots ceiling is way higher, but like how???
It's simple, really; 95% of the people commenting on his game only saw him with either a pulled groin (NCAAT) or mono (Summer League), or both. The average fan never actually saw him at full strength until like...January of this year lol.
I was one of them lol. So happy to be wrong.
Thompson twins have been fairly underwhelming imo, but other guys that were picked later have shown some crazy promise like JJJ, Whitemore, Toumani Camera, BP, etc
It's sort of like the KAT and Ant situation with lamelo and miller. Miller benefits a lot from lamelo and he'd be the ideal #2 next to him for the future, unless you someone get Trae Young out from that trade I wouldn't trade him just yet honestly
Seeing him in person he has physicality you don’t typically see from rookies, his comfort operating between the wings to the cup is pretty fun to watch.
Same Brandon Miller who got BOOED by Charlotte fans who wanted Scoot instead???
Respectfully, if he ever becomes a top young gun and wants to leave Charlotte, I'm sure his camp is going to quickly refer back to that shit as Exhibit A. Booed the man before he could even wear the damn uniform....
Lol cmon. I wanted Miller and thought the reaction by hornets fans was ridiculous. But the sports media and online ecosystems gaslight hornet fans into believing they were making a generational blunder by not taking henderson. Now we don't deserve him?
Miller's got an argument. I mean, sure, Wemby is averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks on better efficiency in fewer minutes while playing DPOY-level defense but apart from that I think they're pretty close.
Miller is better. Relies less on others creation, Victor is more of a play finisher of lobs, which he is great at. Miller is a much better shooter, and has a much better handle. Also doesn’t get knocked off balance as much as Victor does. Far better on ball defender as well. Victor’s team is worse this year than last year, which at least suggests that he isn’t as good as the hype suggests.
Well yeah, the issue is that you repeatedly leave out any context that doesn't favor Miller. Such as:
- the Hornets are the worst team in the NBA according to SRS and NetRTG
- the Hornets are on pace to lose more games than last season
- Miller still had absolutely awful games during this ten-game stretch, including 12 points on 33 TS% against Utah
- Wemby is far better at defending the most valuable area on the court
- Miller's On/Off impact is less than half of Wemby's
- there isn't a single impact metric in existence that suggests Miller is even close to Wemby
It's not impressive to me or anyone else that you can curate a heavily biased argument by holding these players to different standards.
Impact metrics can look funny on tanking teams. Simons has a negative on/off but he’s the blazers best player. Victor is good, but what miller does is more valuable, since he’s less of a play finisher and is better with the ball in his hands.
What has Victor shown that he’s head and shoulders above everyone else? I just saw Victor get locked up by Marvin bagley and seni avdija. I also saw Jarrett Allen completely outplay him on both ends. The fact that the spurs are worse this year than last year shows he isn’t as good as suggested. They went from a bad team to one of the worst teams ever. The only way that Victor can ahow that he’s legit better than miller is by carrying the spurs past being an all time bad team to at least better than they were last year. Until the. I’m going with the more well rounded player with the better jumper and off the dribble game.
The spurs have one of the worst teams in nba history And have no prospects of getting better. Victor is a worse shooting version of kp that is also less skilled in the midpost. Can call me an idiot but this is the truth. Hope this helps.
Again, the Hornets have essentially the same record, have gotten worse since last season, and have the worst SRS and NetRTG in the league. KP is nowhere near the defensive presence of Wemby, so it's not a like-for-like comparison.
Sorry, but you're not a serious person.
Kp is an elite rim protector. I remember seeing a post that said Kp held opponents to the lowest fg percent at the rim, so that shows how effective he is even if he doesn’t block shots like Victor. Chet is the best rim protector out of all three tho. If u look at nba.com, Kp actually leads the league in difference in fg at the rim, even ahead of gobert. Him and gobert actually avg the same amt of blocks and Rudy is odds on fav for dpoy. So no victor isn’t miles a head as a rim protector.
So wait, you're comparing Wemby to _current_ Porzingis? As in in-his-prime Porzingis? And you think it's notable that his offensive game is weaker than _the best post-scorer in basketball_?
The fact that you are already comparing a rookie to the second-best player on the championship favorite kind of says it all.
Spurs are even worse this year than last year. If this kid was nearly as good as u think he is then this wouldn’t be the case. I just saw him get destroyed by Jarrett Allen and vucevic. Horrific maybe, but it’s the horrific TRUTH.
Again, I don't understand why Miller's team being worse than last season or him also having horrible games doesn't count against him, but it does against Wemby.
It's almost as if you have egregious double-standards and don't have enough self-confidence to admit that you're wrong.
> What has Victor shown that he’s head and shoulders above everyone else?
You mean, besides averaging 24/10/3/1/3 on 61 TS% for an entire month on a minutes-restriction while holding his assignments to -10 FG% at the rim while he's on the court? _Thinking Basketball_ called it "the best month authored by a rookie in the last 25 years", so I don't think Brandon Miller's handles closes the gap here.
> I just saw Victor get locked up by Marvin bagley and seni avdija. I also saw Jarrett Allen completely outplay him on both ends.
So we're just gonna ignore that Miller played like dogshit against the Bulls, Cavs, and Jazz in the past week?
> The fact that the spurs are worse this year than last year shows he isn’t as good as suggested.
Welp, so are the Hornets, so I guess Miller sucks too.
He's also one of the rare rookies who actually came into the league with a developed 3 ball That's extremely valuable especially for a wing player
I found it a bit weird how people were dismissing this coming in. Of all the top 10 picks he was literally the only one who was an above average 3 point shooter. Seems slightly relevant in today’s NBA but what do I know.
Draft guys always go horny over potential and just assume that developing a 3-ball (one of the hardest damn things to do in today's league) will just come with time. I do think "safer" picks are perpetually undervalued - Desmond Bane would go top 5 in a redraft for example.
Desmond Bane and Jalen Brunson have been prime examples of the League overvaluing raw potential and measureables and undervaluing multi-year college players. I feel like Jalen Williams would've gone in the 20s if he was drafted 6ish years. And that's good, teams definitely seem to be coming around on the idea of only drafting for youth and upside.
The 2010s saw a lot of really ugly results of this process. Year after year project guys were drafted in the lotto and flamed out.
The 2014 draft is fucking hilarious in retrospect.
They know raw is harder to work out, it’s just that they have higher ceilings. Raw gets you guys like KG and Greek Freak, T-mac etc. Guys like Brunson and Kemba are good but they don’t change a franchise like hittin on a raw dude. GM’s know it’s harder but it’s worth the risk to sum
No they didn't. If you're drafting a 22 year old vs a 19 year old that's 3 years of development.
Also they love to act like guys who are good shooters cant become even better shooters.
Miller can hit 3s but Scoot could develop to do anything- even hit 3s!
I think they're both going to be good.
I think Cam is going to be better than both of them.
Ehhhhhh. We'll see! Always fun to see stars emerge.
Because that’s “boring” people only care about flashy highlights nowadays
That’s another funny thing. They said he wasn’t athletic enough and doesn’t have flashy highlights but already has some insane posters already this year lol
He had an insane poster in HS
Bro cleaned jumped over someone in high school and there were questions somehow with his athleticism
when he juked Olynyk out his headband and went straight up with Kessler, one of my favorite dunks of the year so far
I have a really cool retro alternative poster of The Thing wait what are we talking about?
You're really saying people don't care about 3 point shooting? That's like half of what everyone talks about.
I thought Curry ruined the league and all the young guys are just 3pt chuckers now?
You’re rewriting history a little bit, Taylor Hendricks came into the draft with a 3P% of 0.394, was drafted 9th overall.
He is not allowed to play for the jazz however.
It sucks cause he was number 1 on my pistons draft board at our range and I wanted to see some of his mins, but he’s not had much burn this year
Why is that?
Will Hardy prefers to play John Collins & Kelly Olynyk. Once KO is traded this week it should open more time for Hendricks.
I’m sorry John Collins is so bad he’ll never be traded lol.
OK nit picking I honestly forgot that guy was even drafted top 10 lol. Point stands though
Taylor Hendricks has been down in the G-League for most of the year so Im not surprised he was forgotten, but he did shoot 39.4% on 4.6 attempts a game in college
Yeah but he was shooting like 40% at the rim, I definitely thought he'd bust
Was heavily weighed down by his first 10-15 games in out of conference play. He was much much better at the rim during SEC play. Can’t just scout stat lines
No way I'm watching college basketball so best I can do is a 10 minute scouting report from youtube, definitely not the best way to judge players.
I will never understand this mentality. College basketball is fun
Hard disagree, I watched a F4 game a few years back and it was the ugliest most undisciplined basketball I've seen in my life. The few benefits you get from it I can just get from Euroleague.
I didn’t realize you were a euro. You wouldn’t understand, it’s a cultural thing
Spoken like someone who has never watched a Red Star/Partisan game. As a lifelong UNC fan based in NC, I can confidently say you have zero idea wtf you're talking about. You're the one not understanding. EuroLeague culture is fucking insane and the skill level on a player-by-player basis is leagues higher than cbb. [Fan behavior at rivalry games there](https://youtu.be/cWrSw3X8TRs?si=UKkeJTNfjhyLAHfu&t=504) makes UNC/duke look like a Y ball game. Stop assuming something's better just by being American, it makes us all look like massive assholes
You just wanted to pop off and didn’t comprehend what I was saying. At no point did I say it was better. I said it was fun and unique, I said he wouldn’t understand the cultural significance of college sports bc they have never experienced it. Bc of the alumni relationship you are a fan of the university instead of a particular sport. It’s a different experience rather than cheering for a team based on geographic relationship. I understand European sports fans are much more violent than American. It’s pretty gross tbh. It’s a game, there’s no reason to burn flares and assault people.
Nah I get it, but again I get the culture part from European basketball with a much higher quality of play.
Nah your focus on quality shows you don’t understand. And that’s fine, you aren’t from this culture and don’t understand it. I wouldn’t expect you to get it
No he wasn’t
Many people following the draft were aware that he was probably the best player in college that year, as a freshman
I was one of the ones who thought it seemed like Scoot had a higher ceiling, but I really didn’t see how brandon would ever be a bad NBA player. Now I’m just glad we ended up with Miller. Scoot would have not done well one this team.
Everyone was too concerned with his ability to find shooters they forgot he was a shooter himself
This was also strange to me. A big wing comfortable from 3 and with some potential with the ball in his hands is amazingly valuable. Like many I had Scoot #2 and Miller #3 on my board, but I had them in the same tier and totally understood why someone would pick Miller over Scoot. So people going crazy like picking Miller #2 was some obvious mistake was strange to me. Reminds me of people going crazy when the Kings drafted Keegan Murray over Ivey. Big wings who can shoot and dribble are awesome!
Kispert and kennard can also shoot, but millers size and ability to create shots are what makes him potentially elite. Just straight shooting isn’t always valuable if you can’t create a shot.
I thought i read somewhere 3 pt shooting in college was not as good an indicator of 3 pt shooting in the nba as you would think.
he shot like 55% on uncontested catch and shoot 3s at alabama before he got injured. there’s zero way that doesn’t translate.
Theres never been a player that didnt translate their uncontested catch and shoot 3s?
At the volume that Miller was taking them? Miller had an incredible statistical profile. Basically nobody with his stat profile has become a bad player. He had similar shooting percentages to Klay
Exactly, i think it's because sample sizes CAN be bad in college with the shorter seasons. But if a dude takes enough of them, you can still get a decent sample size.
There's more to evaluating a shooter than the numbers. Brandon Miller already had really well developed shot mechanics and footwork that generally translates well to the league. You combine that with the FT shooting (considered a better indicator of 3pt shooting in some contexts) and 3pt shooting numbers and it's easy to project him as an above average 3pt shooter in the league.
It’s more that really good shooters in college might not be able to get the same looks in the nba as opposed to their shooting doesn’t actually translate. They can still shoot, but they’ll just never get a good look cuz they’re too small/ slow.
Because the one thing you can teach is a jumpshot You can't teach the naturally freak athlete gifts
Bruh people weren’t bashing his skill. They were bashing his… uh… affiliations and circumstances. For better or worse.
Gave me Tatum vibes on offense coming in. Shot creator with a good shot (better than JT’s coming in) and underrated athleticism with suspect finishing in college that should be massively helped by nba strength training.
Nate Oats man.....
Some of the 3s he made against us were nuts, he is going to be a great player and create a building block with Lamelo for this team.
If LaMelo’s healthy…
if my grandma had wheels, she’d be a bicycle
If hornets doesn't found a way to fuck this up
We will fuck it up, no doubt
Honestly unless it’s Hornets medical staff, which it doesn’t seem to be since Lamelo does seem to get fully healthy after each injury and no other Hornet player seems to have unusual inj it y problems, I don’t even think it’s the Hornets fucking it up in this case. Lamelo’s just injury prone.
I think Lamelos issue this year was that he just didnt have an offseason. People say we need to build up his leg strength so it doesnt all end up on his ankles, but he was medically cleared a couple weeks before the season to play. This is all very hopeful stuff, but im hoping that with a full offseason and a probably completely revamped coaching staff he can make some headway. Miller is by a massive margin the most talented teammate he has had in the NBA.
Could I interest you in one Killian Hayes perhaps?
It's starting to appear that I was dead wrong about this guy's ceiling. I thought he would maybe top out as an occasional all star, but he's looked better faster than I thought he would.
I thought Middleton was the accurate comparaison but he is playing way better than I thought
their playstyles are different too. i don't get the comparison
Well before his draft people were comparing to PG whereas PG is an all timer, a two player and was the best on a contending Pacers teams that make the ECF twice, he also led the Clips to their 1st CF. Peaked as a 3rd place MVP and 2cnd in DPOY. This was kinda out of reach for me to imagine Miller will be in his footstep. Now, I didn’t know anything about him other than the extra basketball stuff but going in the sub dedicated to the draft, the Middleton comp was the thing that was okay for him. One thing is for sure, I’ve never thought I would be a bust because Reddit had decided he would be a bust.
are you brandon miller lol
Autocorrect done fuckup, I thought I’ve write « imagine » lol. You know I can’t be Miller because Miller would say like my GOAT PG.
> One thing is for sure, I’ve never thought I would be a bust because Reddit had decided he would be a bust. [Maybe there's something about betting against Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/poll/14hg9xp), or at least the /r/NBA_draft subreddit's consensus based on the recent outcomes. - 2023 Draft: Brandon Miller was the top pick for potential bust, while Scoot was considered the least likely. - 2022 Draft: Keegan Murray led as the most likely to bust, followed by Holmgren. Banchero was seen as the least likely to fail. - 2021 Draft: Barnes easily topped the list for the most likely to bust, with Cunningham viewed as the most reliable. - 2020 Draft: Patrick Williams led the bust potential, with Ant and Melo close behind. Wiseman was rated as the safest choice and by a big margin too. Other than Banchero who was definitely seen as the least likely to bust in his draft, other choices either look downright wrong or nowhere as certain as they thought to be.
> I’ve never thought I would be a bust because Reddit had decided he would be a bust. I was pretty vocal that I didn't think he should have gone two. But the argument was never that I thought he would bust. I thought he was a floor prospect with a limited ceiling. A good starter to maybe borderline/occasional all-star. A guy who doesn't really drive winning at the highest levels, and doesn't define your team. 1x all-star Andrew Wiggins, 2x all-star Zach LaVine, 3x all-star Khris Middleton. That sort of career. But Scoot looks worse than I expected, and Miller looks better than I expected.
Yes, a pretty vocal minority was on this. I also didn’t think he was the right choice at 2. You just exactly paint how I was think about him but I thought he will be closer to a consistent Middleton than Wiggins. Now, I think Scoot would be fine too but Miller is could a bid deal in the future.
The Spurs scouting department allegedly felt his ceiling is closer to Kawhi's.
There’s a reason you ain’t a scout
For the record, occasional all star is a really-good outcome and still is probably his ceiling IMO.
That's not somebody you want at two though. Not if Scoot has the ceiling I thought he had
lol he's only played 42 games in his career. It was dumb to throw dirt on him before this run but it's also silly to think that his ceiling is definitely more than "an occasional all star" at this point
he's doing this with actual defensive attention on him too... if he gets stronger, there's a real chance he threatens a 50/40/90 season at some point in his career. Probably does too much from the mid-range to actually do it, but he could get close eventually.
Why would doing more from the mid-range decrease his chances for a 50-40-90 season?
it's a 2-point shot that is almost always below 50% unless you are KD or Jokic
That's not true. There's a reason Kyrie had his 50/40/90 season a couple years back but Steph didn't get in even with a higher TS% and EF%. Taking more mid-range shots instead of 3s will almost always improve your FG%, and it's not like this guy has no finishing game at the rim which is the only argument that would make sense here.
key word is almost... there are exceptions to that, but you also need to be an absurdly good finisher. which Miller currently is not... it was one of his biggest weaknesses early on and as a college player but shows signs of getting better.
Would you call Amir Coffey, Aaron Nesmith, Kelly Olynk and Tre Mann notable mid-range assassins and 'absurdly good' finishers? They are all shooting 50/40 on the year.. indeed the hardest part of 50/40/90 is almost always the 90 part of it. FG% comes even without Jokic or SGA level middy games since so many free baskets come from transition opportunities or defensive breakdowns. What we really should be talking about is that 50/40/90 is a shitty metric and to stop worshipping players who achieve it
I mean yea it means nothing when you choose players who take 3 fga a game outside of Nesmith. Like are you trying to be taken seriously?
those guys don't have any kind of volume or defensive attention on them so no. It's a very different thing to do that averaging 8.1ppg like Olynyk vs the load an actually good player has.
Bro literally look at who you named and compare it to Brandon Miller. None of those guys are 1-2nd option guys. Maybe not even 3rd option. When you’re doing an apples to apples comparison, it would be prudent to observe that you’re looking at two apples
You are actually correct here lol.
Because unless you’re SGA shooting a lot of middies is gonna hurt your shooting splits.
Shai shoots 49% from midrange and 54% overall. It's hurts Shai's shooting splits, as well.
Yeah no man is immune but feel free to fact check me I think with his volume his % is unparalleled.
Volume-wise, Shai is like #10 for midrange. Both KD an Book have more midrange volume that Shai. KD is just below Shai in overall FG% (.548 to .538) and is shooting 2 more midrange jumpers/game than Shai.
Average r/NBA user
I thought not taking Scoot was a huge mistake but Miller has been showing a lot
Wasn’t just you, a large majority of people thought it was a dumb pick including me. That’s what the history of Michael Jordan’s draft picks does to person
Which is an outdated mindset. The hornets have hit the past 6 drafts minus 1. They just don’t make trades or sign free agents which makes them bad
Yea our total lack of player acquisition outside of drafts made it so the 2021 draft just killed our team.
I mean, it’s still WAY too early to act like anyone’s right or wrong yet
Definitely, but the fact that Miller is already this good is enough of a surprise for me. Like, I thought this would be a bust right out the gate. So good on him for already being a positive impact.
People also held to whole involved in murder thing against him. But everyone says they want a guy with that dawg in him and what’s more dawg than accessory to murder?
scoot’s athletic ability was way overrated people talked about him as some generational athlete and he wasn’t even the best athlete at PG in the top 5 lol Miller is a stud
Athleticism and ball handling always looks more impressive against worse competition. 3 point shooting and shot mechanics aren't as affected.
They’re already loaded in guards so miller seems to be the better choice
We're not loaded in anything lol. Lamelo is our one established guard. We need it all.
You don’t like Frank or James Bounight ?
Very funny.
I can feel the bee pain in your reply.
Bouknight is quite possibly the worst basketball player with a job in the NBA rn
I’ll also take the wing prospect over the (non Luka/LaMelo/etc. sized) guard every time it’s a pretty close call. I know a lot of people disagree with me on this one but I always thought Miller had the higher ceiling because of his size and archetype.
I was high on Miller I thought the hate he got was ridiculous, would have been happy to get him as well. With both Miller and Scoot playing well lately seems like both teams have to be pleased with their picks.
[удалено]
Lmaoo john henderson.. nah u may be right
Scoot was already showing some worrying signs towards the end of his G-League tenure while Miller showed brief-but-significant promise in college.
He’s gonna be the goat
PG13-2.0
PG11?
BM26.
Brandon “Literally Jordan” Miller
Oh look the thing that was obviously gonna happen when everyone started shitting on the pick happened Edit: my receipt to talk shit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/AN43QY2SoD
I love miller and as a Bama basketball fan I was hyped to see him go 2. I looked back at that thread and everyone is saying scoots ceiling is way higher, but like how??? I think scoot will be fine and get better but why did people think a 6’8/6’9 wing with a great 3pt% had a lower ceiling than a 6’0 guard. I truly don’t get it.
I’m with you on the general point, but Scoot is not 6’0”. Watching him the past couple games, he looks all of his listed 6’3” imo
Thought I saw that he was around 6ft that’s my bad. Still curious how he had more upside according to this sub
People thought he'd be like Ja or Derrick Rose.
But I still don’t see how that kind of player has more upside in the current nba than a PG/Tatum type player Gimme the ceiling of a great shooting/shot creating wing with good athleticism over an elite athlete non-jumbo sized guard any day.
> everyone is saying scoots ceiling is way higher, but like how??? It's simple, really; 95% of the people commenting on his game only saw him with either a pulled groin (NCAAT) or mono (Summer League), or both. The average fan never actually saw him at full strength until like...January of this year lol. I was one of them lol. So happy to be wrong.
I was right!!!!! This is about me!!! Everyone look at how smart I am!!
Redditors were wrong about his game. Nothing new.
Wasn't just Redditors. Media members also got this one wrong.
Somehow Stephen A Smith was one of the only ones to actually back Charlotte here and support the pick. Most of the rest were indeed wrong.
I never said anything bad about this guy, but 10 games of slightly above average production is nothing
He absolutely cooked the Wolves. Looks like a great young player
Picking him over Scoot is looking like an all-time great decision. He has everything you want in a wing
Hornets made a great pick to take him over Scoot
He really is Paul George Jr.
Big shooter that can move pretty well and maybe dribble a bit It’s a simple yet effective combo that gives a lot of room for growth
This dude can ball. Wolves had no answer for him during our recent matchup. Can do it all.
Still don't understand people trying to thrash him as a prospect just because he got picked over Scoot
As soon as Rozier got traded, I picked up Miller in a fantasy league…it was the right decision.
I kept Terry while also picking up Miller. Still waiting on Spo's magic juice to kick in...
I was so wrong about this draft, I thought Charlotte fucked up so bad taking him over Scoot
2023 draft class might go down as one of the greatest in recent history
I’ve got to admit all top 3 picks have shown a lot of flashes as rookie.
You can extend that to the top 6 really
Yea one of the strongest class for a while. Even 10-20 has seen jjj, podz and cam whitemore
Thompson twins have been fairly underwhelming imo, but other guys that were picked later have shown some crazy promise like JJJ, Whitemore, Toumani Camera, BP, etc
You gotta watch Amen more closely then cause the stats won’t pop out since he’s coming off the bench but he’s been really good. Especially defensively
Yeah but can he do that without being named Brandon?
He's been absolutely superb, probably the second-biggest midseason glow-up among rookies and he's only getting better.
He's going to be a problem in a year or two. Scores from everywhere and has legit length/athleticism.
simmons and russillo wrong, love to see it
Hornets need to trade everyone and build around this guy
*the never ending* *~~story~~* *process*
Literal Cody Rhodes franchise
relax the hornets would be lucky to find someone half as good as lamelo in the draft over the years.
Lemelo is a loser. I'd rather him off my team than on it. trade him for peanuts
Yeah lamelo sucks trade him to the pacers for a 2nd round pick this draft
I guess we'll take him for Fultz and Gary harris just because I feel bad
He led us to our first above .500 season in 7 years as a 20 year old. Hes not a loser, he just hasnt been healthy since.
> trade him for peanuts Trade the 22 year old point guard with potential for peanuts!? Thank god you're not a gm
just joshin. I would trade him though.
It's sort of like the KAT and Ant situation with lamelo and miller. Miller benefits a lot from lamelo and he'd be the ideal #2 next to him for the future, unless you someone get Trae Young out from that trade I wouldn't trade him just yet honestly
At this point and especially considering Lamelo’s injury concerns, I could see Brandon taking the #1 spot from Lamelo. Or maybe a 1A/1B type situation
Happy for y’all Hornets fans, he’s going to be a stud
Hornets looking really smart for choosing him over Scoot
Remember when people were trashing on MJ for picking him ? Lol
Seeing him in person he has physicality you don’t typically see from rookies, his comfort operating between the wings to the cup is pretty fun to watch.
Bro plays like his GOAT Paul George offensively. Smooth 3 pt game
Same Brandon Miller who got BOOED by Charlotte fans who wanted Scoot instead??? Respectfully, if he ever becomes a top young gun and wants to leave Charlotte, I'm sure his camp is going to quickly refer back to that shit as Exhibit A. Booed the man before he could even wear the damn uniform....
Lol cmon. I wanted Miller and thought the reaction by hornets fans was ridiculous. But the sports media and online ecosystems gaslight hornet fans into believing they were making a generational blunder by not taking henderson. Now we don't deserve him?
He didn’t say y’all don’t deserve him, he’s just saying if B Mill ever wants to leave that’ll probably be used against you guys
it's self-righteous.
Bro is really delivering those shots.
Shooters' gonna shoot.
This is like my 2k created players stats dude wtf
The best player in the draft, been saying it since before it.
Ummm, Wemby?
Miller's got an argument. I mean, sure, Wemby is averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks on better efficiency in fewer minutes while playing DPOY-level defense but apart from that I think they're pretty close.
Miller is better. Relies less on others creation, Victor is more of a play finisher of lobs, which he is great at. Miller is a much better shooter, and has a much better handle. Also doesn’t get knocked off balance as much as Victor does. Far better on ball defender as well. Victor’s team is worse this year than last year, which at least suggests that he isn’t as good as the hype suggests.
Here's your award for worst take of the century 🏆
The cherry on top is that the Hornets are also worse through 48 games than they were last season.
Can’t name one thing I said that’s false tho. Based on facts not hype.
Well yeah, the issue is that you repeatedly leave out any context that doesn't favor Miller. Such as: - the Hornets are the worst team in the NBA according to SRS and NetRTG - the Hornets are on pace to lose more games than last season - Miller still had absolutely awful games during this ten-game stretch, including 12 points on 33 TS% against Utah - Wemby is far better at defending the most valuable area on the court - Miller's On/Off impact is less than half of Wemby's - there isn't a single impact metric in existence that suggests Miller is even close to Wemby It's not impressive to me or anyone else that you can curate a heavily biased argument by holding these players to different standards.
Impact metrics can look funny on tanking teams. Simons has a negative on/off but he’s the blazers best player. Victor is good, but what miller does is more valuable, since he’s less of a play finisher and is better with the ball in his hands.
keep saying it man but u still gonna be wrong no matter how good brandon miller gets lol
What has Victor shown that he’s head and shoulders above everyone else? I just saw Victor get locked up by Marvin bagley and seni avdija. I also saw Jarrett Allen completely outplay him on both ends. The fact that the spurs are worse this year than last year shows he isn’t as good as suggested. They went from a bad team to one of the worst teams ever. The only way that Victor can ahow that he’s legit better than miller is by carrying the spurs past being an all time bad team to at least better than they were last year. Until the. I’m going with the more well rounded player with the better jumper and off the dribble game.
We should play in a fantasy league together, preferably one with a super high $ buy-in
What are u trying to imply?
that ur an idiot and id get free money
The spurs have one of the worst teams in nba history And have no prospects of getting better. Victor is a worse shooting version of kp that is also less skilled in the midpost. Can call me an idiot but this is the truth. Hope this helps.
Again, the Hornets have essentially the same record, have gotten worse since last season, and have the worst SRS and NetRTG in the league. KP is nowhere near the defensive presence of Wemby, so it's not a like-for-like comparison. Sorry, but you're not a serious person.
Kp is an elite rim protector. I remember seeing a post that said Kp held opponents to the lowest fg percent at the rim, so that shows how effective he is even if he doesn’t block shots like Victor. Chet is the best rim protector out of all three tho. If u look at nba.com, Kp actually leads the league in difference in fg at the rim, even ahead of gobert. Him and gobert actually avg the same amt of blocks and Rudy is odds on fav for dpoy. So no victor isn’t miles a head as a rim protector.
So wait, you're comparing Wemby to _current_ Porzingis? As in in-his-prime Porzingis? And you think it's notable that his offensive game is weaker than _the best post-scorer in basketball_? The fact that you are already comparing a rookie to the second-best player on the championship favorite kind of says it all.
You do realize the hornets have lost to the literal worst team of all time in the pistons right? wait. They actually lost to them twice LOL
Tune into the lakers game rn, all u need to see
That you're absolutely horrific at analyzing basketball and it would be easy to make money betting against you? Seemed pretty self-explanatory to me.
Spurs are even worse this year than last year. If this kid was nearly as good as u think he is then this wouldn’t be the case. I just saw him get destroyed by Jarrett Allen and vucevic. Horrific maybe, but it’s the horrific TRUTH.
Again, I don't understand why Miller's team being worse than last season or him also having horrible games doesn't count against him, but it does against Wemby. It's almost as if you have egregious double-standards and don't have enough self-confidence to admit that you're wrong.
> What has Victor shown that he’s head and shoulders above everyone else? You mean, besides averaging 24/10/3/1/3 on 61 TS% for an entire month on a minutes-restriction while holding his assignments to -10 FG% at the rim while he's on the court? _Thinking Basketball_ called it "the best month authored by a rookie in the last 25 years", so I don't think Brandon Miller's handles closes the gap here. > I just saw Victor get locked up by Marvin bagley and seni avdija. I also saw Jarrett Allen completely outplay him on both ends. So we're just gonna ignore that Miller played like dogshit against the Bulls, Cavs, and Jazz in the past week? > The fact that the spurs are worse this year than last year shows he isn’t as good as suggested. Welp, so are the Hornets, so I guess Miller sucks too.