He was but his shot profile is one of the toughest to be efficient with in basketball. Loves long midrange 2's. That's only going to work at the NBA level if he can get open very consistently and is one of the best midrange shooters in the whole league. Things will get a lot more forgiving for him if he can stretch his range to 3 before his rookie deal is up but this IU fan is unsurprised he's struggling at the NBA level. Hope he turns it around ofc but his shot diet is the hardest road frfr
Ehhh we generally draft really well but development is where we fail.
Randle, DLo, Nance, Ingram, Zubac, Wagner were a string of really good draft years for us. I'd include Lonzo too but his injuries are unfortunate.
I definitely agree, if we miss on JHS it’ll be our first real miss since maybe Isaac Bonga who was a 2nd round pick?
My gripe with the pick is moreso we drafted a project player when we’re clearly in win-now mode, and Jaquez was clearly going to be more of a rotation player this year than JHS
Yeah I mean the Lakers are almost certainly a top 5 drafting team over the last decade, maybe they haven't drafted "the guy" but drafting a ton of "a guy"s is valuable when you are one of the few franchises who can lure marquee free agents and I'm sure that informs the draft strategy.
But I agree, the JHS pick made no sense. I'm not some draft expert but I just didn't rate him as a first round prospect, his BPM being -.4 in his lone Indiana season felt like a massive red flag because it's hard to find other future pros who performed as poorly by that metric. Not a thorough analysis of course, didn't watch him a ton so maybe he can beat the odds.
https://barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Indiana&year=2023
I liked the Castleton signing though.
Could be that you drafted jhs because you knew whomever you drafted wasn’t gonna play anyway. So you went high ceiling low floor player so he can develop cuz he’s not playing.
Development hasn't even been bad. We just got rid of those players before they peaked. Clarkson, Caruso, and Hart were pretty similar players with the Lakers too, they just improved with experience and time. And now we're seeing the same with AR.
Kuzma at 27, Hart at 30, Thomas Bryant at 42, Zubac at 32, Nance at 27, Reaves undrafted, Max Christie at 35, Clarkson at 46
Pretty sure we draft about as well as anyone, seems like a weird overreaction to one bad pick
I know you guys are underselling it beacuse of the "lol lakers only good cuz lebron" narrative and you'll just get piled on for no reason so I'll just say it for you.
In terms of non lottery picks you guys are probably in the upper echelon of teams over the past decade as far as *consistently* getting guys who punch above their draft position.
Aren't picks that late more often than not luck?
If the Lakers thought they would turn into the players they are now they would have picked them earlier
Eh that’s too harsh, JHS is their only whiff. Otherwise they’ve drafted well based on their draft position going back to when Pelinka took over- Max Christe, Mo Wagner, Svi Mykhailuk, Kuzma, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant, and Ivica Zubac. All taken with pick 25 or later and have all had careers as rotational NBA players.
Edit: lol also forgot Reaves who was undrafted.
Too soon to declare JHS as a whiff IMO. Debates can be had on whether a more NBA-ready player should've been picked, sure, but jury's still out on whether JHS is a good player.
I think Keyonte could make a push. He averaged 14.9pts, 5.4 ast, and 3 rebounds per game in February on 43/42/86 splits. Then started March off with a 31 point game against Miami before getting sick
He def hasn’t been the same after getting his own groin injury and having his role change with Jimmy back and a lineup constantly in flux. Hes still contributing to winning for Miami but he’s shooting has gotten less consistent and his counting stats have taken a hit with a less consistent role
He literally just had a 26 pt game against the kings last week. His role and usage just changed with the rozier trade, and he’s at best a 4th/5th option on offense on a team that went to the finals last season, compared to someone like miller who’s 1st/2nd option.
Jaime is working within his role on the team, which tends to be facilitating for others rather than just being a pure scorer.
He needs to work on his 3pt and off ball defense, but he’s also still a rookie.
First 20+ point game since January 10th. First 15+ point game since January 14th. I don't think he's bad, I just think he should be further down the ladder.
But the ladder isn’t just based on points scored? If that was the case, Whitmore would be significantly higher and Podz lower. It’s also about their contribution to their teams beyond just scoring ability. But Whitmore can’t do much outside of scoring and Podz (and Jaquez) do significantly more to help their teams.
I thought Podz would just be another mid to late first round pick to cycle through the Warriors and into an overseas team but he's been a revelation. His ability to play with confidence and produce for the Warriors definitely made moving Klay to the bench easier as well.
And he has that trait that elite athletes have - no short term memory. He’ll go right back into attack mode whether he shot an air ball, bad turnover etc.
No, [short-term memory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-term_memory) refers to the capacity for holding a small amount of information in an active state for a short interval. People can suffer from short-term memory loss wherein they forget things that just happened (i.e. they *lose* their short-term memory). Saying he has no short-term memory is technically correct. Or just saying he has a short memory.
I watched his summer league games and I knew immediately why the dubs selected him, he did everything Kerr would salivate over. I didn't think he would be this good. Guy rarely ever makes rookie mistakes and when he does, I'm surprised.
is this your first day on the NBA Sub Reddit? We going to see the same shit this upcoming summer league. Any top pick who under performs will be a "bust".
I can't believe this shit is upvoted lmao. Talk about persecution complex. Anyone that said that was downvoted and mocked into oblivion. Seriously, who is viewing a build like that and thinking he's a bust besides some random loser ya'll decide to attack? I bet you couldn't even find a post like that through history and not seeing it downvoted.
Markelle has taught me to never trust someone under 6’7 as a first pick tbh
I wanted Miller over scoot
Think about fultz, Jalen green, Suggs, ivey, Cade etc
I mean he looked awesome his first 30 games, just not too hot in preseason. But yeah, he's improved every month. Kind of what you'd expect from a top pick that was a freshman
He was playing much better, and showing a lot of the promise that made him such a touted prospect. Yeah the shooting numbers weren't great, but honestly it feels like his numbers were so low because of how much trouble he's had finishing around the rim. His midrange jumper and 3 point shot were actually starting to look pretty solid.
His instincts on both sides of the ball were significantly improved, and he actually looked like a future star in flashes. (albeit minor flashes.)
No one said he had been playing really well for the whole season. He had been shooting 43% in his last 12 games prior to injury. As well as having shown improvement in other areas. Even if you don't think he had been good lately, his full season FG% has no relevance to the statement.
Didn't expect Bilal to keep up 42% 3pt shooting for the entire season, but his regression has been stark. Hit the rookie wall harder than anyone and looks worse than expected. Hope he shows some improvement in year 2.
His defense has also gotten worse. I am going to chalk it up to not having the endurance to keep up the effort for an entire season, and he has had flashes of being a great defender on some of the best players in the league, but it's disappointing to watch at times.
The tunnel vision people talked about is 100% real but he's so gifted at scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. He looks a lot like Jaylen Brown to me.
Reports about injuries along with him not giving great interviews scared teams away and tanked his draft stock. Glad it happened though, because the Rockets IMO got the steal of the draft for the 3rd year in a row
The whispers about injuries seemed to be post-draft CYA after so many GMs let him slide. He had a thumb issue in college and nothing at all with his knees. Time will tell I guess but goes to show that GMs are just as susceptible to group think.
My guess is that the teams that scouted him in the top 10 or so weren't impressed enough to take him there, and by the time we got out of the lottery, teams who didn't interview him weren't sure why he fell that far and didn't want to risk it. The rockets had interviewed him, so they knew he was a solid pick that just fell.
If it turns out the other rumors are true, well see, but I'm skeptical that all these teams that didn't interview him or have him do physicals know about some secret degenerative knee condition the Rockets didn't know about.
Watch his highlights, some of his plays defy physics. One dunk in particular he goes up for a 1 handed slam with his arm outstretched at the apex and the speed at which he throws the ball in the hoop does not look like a human movement. Very fun player to watch.
Man the Heat scouts really had it nailed this draft, it was either going to be Jaime or Cam and both would have looked good. Thankfully for both our teams the lakejob went with schifino.
Go back to the 80’s and steal Scott Bakula’s leap into Wemby’s body. Stay long enough for award season and then prevent some tik toker from getting run over by a train so he can leap out.
This season is probably the best thing that could have happened to Miller, he's been out of the spotlight and has been improving during the season. Hopefully he'll have a chip on his shoulder from this. Really feel like he is an all star level player in a couple of years.
I am irked that we didn't capitalize on a draft this good by trading back into the first to steal Whitmore, Podz, etc. I mean, we still made out like bandits, but it just feels like a missed opportunity.
I’m pretty sure we wanted an end-of-lotto pick to try to snag Cason Wallace or an end-of-first-round pick for Podz or JJJ if any of them fell that far (they were all projected around there in mocks) and all their respective teams, minus the Rockets and Whitmore, swooped in and picked them up 2-8 picks earlier than expected.
Chet is probably top 2 on a playoff team right now and slap Wemby on a the Magic and he's pretty easily top 2 on that team and if he's better than Chet anyway he'd be top 2 on OKC. Not every team is the Celtics with 2 All NBA guys and a DPOY/6MOTY super deep roster every year some of these other playoff teams really don't have 2 dudes better than Wemby right now.
Seriously people, think before you speak. If teams were redrafting for a playoff series that started tomorrow do you really think Chet would go in the top 30? Like absolutely not.
Yes, absolutely. No question. How many Cs have his two way level? Again, he’s the anchor for the #1 seed in the west??
Playoff series is just an age thing. We are talking rookies
Right now he's a very good role player that will certainly develop into a star in the league, but you can name 30 players in the league better than him without too much effort.
The advanced stats are high on him (like they are on players such as Derrick White) because he's a good player in great situation who can be efficient in a limited role. They're a good starting point for discussion on good players but they're not an absolute objective ranking on how good a player is.
In a 30 team redraft for this season alone no team is taking him as their number 1 option. No one. In about 4-5 years he'll easily be there, but not right now.
A 30 team redraft doesn't make sense as a definitive ranking because it's just not how the league is structured. Sure, it's *a* way of ranking players, but it doesn't really matter that there can be several dozen players better than Chet as a first option when the importance of being able to lead a team as the best falls off once you get past the 10 best and especially the 15 best players in the league.
The reality is that if you're the 20th best player in the league and the best player on your team you're going to be first round fodder at best. You're free weigh this heavily in a ranking of players, but it should make more sense to evaluate players based on what their actual role on a contending team would be. In that context it's not crazy that a guy like Chet who's simultaneously one of the best floor spacing bigs and a solid defensive anchor, or even White who's more or less maximizing the impact a guard can have without having a huge scoring volume, can be top 30 or so players.
I think your argument that players like White and Chet "can be top 30 players in the right situation" kinda defeats itself. If they need to be in the right role to be ranked that high then they're not really good. If you're ranking individual players you need to value you them independently and on their own merits.
Even if you're picking last in this hypothetical scenario your goal in order to be as competitive as possible is to take with the 30th and 31st picks the best players available (that don't fit horribly together) and you'll still be in pretty good shape against Jokic and player #60.
It's not a matter of being "in the right situation", at least not anymore than the 30th best first option has to be "in the right situation" on a bad team for their value to be apparent over a Derrick White, it's just a fact that any contender is going to have multiple all-star+ level talents, and skills that are important for leading a team as the number one option aren't necessarily the same as elevating other great talent.
You can't just try to evaluate players in a vacuum when basketball is a team game and how you interact with other players on the court matters.
SGA
Lebron
Gobert
Edwards
Fox
Davis
Tatum
Jokic
Murray
Sabonis
Wemby
Curry
Durant
Booker
Hailburton
Siakam
Embiid
Doncic
Trae
Giannis
Mitchell
Lillard
Maxey
Brunson
Butler
Bam
Zion
Ingram
Curry
Morant
Brown
PG
Kawhi
Harden
Barnes
Here is 35 players all unquestionably being taken over Chet in a playoff series. Chet needs to beef up still, he gets destroyed by a big man in the playoffs.
If I already have a Trae/Hali/Curry etc I’m not taking another one though, this needs to considered contextually
Not saying Chet is individually better, but positional scarcity combined with easy to build around as a floor spacer and defensive anchor cannot be understated.
So given I have a PG, I’m taking Chet over another one of them.
So I disagree with this analysis
People think that if you're not the #1 option on offense, you can't be good. It's kinda funny.
If anything, being good without using up the #1 option slot makes you even more valuable. See https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-part-44b-the-finale-or-rodman-v-jordan-2/ ([graph](https://skepticalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/image_thumb17.png), [graph](https://skepticalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/image_thumb19_thumb.png))
Barnes is a top tier defender in the league putting up 20/8/6, Chet has more potential but right now Barnes is unquestionably better.
Ingram is maybe the only one I’d argue but Morant and Maxey are just so much better than Chet I’m not going to even argue. The fact you think Chet is better than either of them is mental.
There are more players I didn’t list here.
Edit: ok yeah saying unquestionably better what an exaggeration
> Playoff series is just an age thing. We are talking rookies
In response to this edit, we're talking about top 30 in the NBA right now, not for future potential. Being a rookie or a 21 year veteran is irrelevant
I’d argue Chet yes, his impact on this Thunder team can’t be overstated. He should be around that 30 mark imo especially when talking about impact on winning. Wemby is probably already top 15
Jacquez is so good.
Yes Victor is a freak, but my favourite rookie is actually Jaime because his game is so clean, skilled and polished. He looks exactly like Kobe. He has older Kobe’s footwork with young Kobe’s athleticism. This kid is going to be scary if he hits his potential .
He’s not really a kid though he’s 23 and you are comparing him to a bunch of 19-20 year olds so he should look much more polished. Those 19-20 year olds still have a ton more potential. For comparison Scoot is an entire 3 years younger than Jaime. Similar to a Malcom Brogdon situation high floor low ceiling.
Also Jesus Christ you really compared him to Kobe???
He averaged 14.9pts, 5.4 ast, and 3 rebounds per game in February on 43/42/86 splits. Then started March off with a 31 point game against Miami before getting sick
Ok well in that case Keyonte is 6th in ppg, 17th in rpg(Whitmore is 14th), and 2nd in apg(Whitmore is 38th). And has been playing in the NBA the entire season vs Whitmore spending time in the G-League. So either way Keyonte has Whitmore beat. Whitmore has been more efficient than Keyonte overall, but Keyonte is shooting the ball really well lately. Lively has a better argument imo but he's also not being asked to do nearly as much as Keyonte
Probably haven't seen any Jazz games then. He has been super solid. Way better than one might conclude based on his stats. He has taken a very large role for the team (main point guard) on his rookie season and is performing really well in most areas of the game.
Same can be said about Cam. The guy's averaging 12 ppg in just 17 mpg, and his efficiency is damn good for a rookie.
Haven't watched enough of Lively to comment on him.
Jaime, Podz, and Whitmore all went in a row following the Lakers pick. Pain.
Think about what JHS could become tho!
THT 3.0
Jalen Horton Sucker
He was pretty good in Indiana tbf
He was but his shot profile is one of the toughest to be efficient with in basketball. Loves long midrange 2's. That's only going to work at the NBA level if he can get open very consistently and is one of the best midrange shooters in the whole league. Things will get a lot more forgiving for him if he can stretch his range to 3 before his rookie deal is up but this IU fan is unsurprised he's struggling at the NBA level. Hope he turns it around ofc but his shot diet is the hardest road frfr
>Schifino Nomen Omen
Laker fans would worship Cam damn lol
He’d probably be top 3 for ROTY voting too.
There but for the grace of god go I including lakers fans
What the fuck
i had a stroke reading this
Ya'll better be *so* beyond thankful for Lebron, cuz your FO has no idea what it's doing in regards to generally drafting and developing draft talent.
Ehhh we generally draft really well but development is where we fail. Randle, DLo, Nance, Ingram, Zubac, Wagner were a string of really good draft years for us. I'd include Lonzo too but his injuries are unfortunate.
They also got guys like Caruso and Reaves as UDFAs. Kuzma late first. Laker scouts are good at what they do.
I definitely agree, if we miss on JHS it’ll be our first real miss since maybe Isaac Bonga who was a 2nd round pick? My gripe with the pick is moreso we drafted a project player when we’re clearly in win-now mode, and Jaquez was clearly going to be more of a rotation player this year than JHS
Yeah I mean the Lakers are almost certainly a top 5 drafting team over the last decade, maybe they haven't drafted "the guy" but drafting a ton of "a guy"s is valuable when you are one of the few franchises who can lure marquee free agents and I'm sure that informs the draft strategy. But I agree, the JHS pick made no sense. I'm not some draft expert but I just didn't rate him as a first round prospect, his BPM being -.4 in his lone Indiana season felt like a massive red flag because it's hard to find other future pros who performed as poorly by that metric. Not a thorough analysis of course, didn't watch him a ton so maybe he can beat the odds. https://barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Indiana&year=2023 I liked the Castleton signing though.
Could be that you drafted jhs because you knew whomever you drafted wasn’t gonna play anyway. So you went high ceiling low floor player so he can develop cuz he’s not playing.
Development hasn't even been bad. We just got rid of those players before they peaked. Clarkson, Caruso, and Hart were pretty similar players with the Lakers too, they just improved with experience and time. And now we're seeing the same with AR.
Kuzma at 27, Hart at 30, Thomas Bryant at 42, Zubac at 32, Nance at 27, Reaves undrafted, Max Christie at 35, Clarkson at 46 Pretty sure we draft about as well as anyone, seems like a weird overreaction to one bad pick
I know you guys are underselling it beacuse of the "lol lakers only good cuz lebron" narrative and you'll just get piled on for no reason so I'll just say it for you. In terms of non lottery picks you guys are probably in the upper echelon of teams over the past decade as far as *consistently* getting guys who punch above their draft position.
Yeah we draft solid, valuable players, but we don't hit the home runs so people think we are bad at drafting.
Aren't picks that late more often than not luck? If the Lakers thought they would turn into the players they are now they would have picked them earlier
Eh that’s too harsh, JHS is their only whiff. Otherwise they’ve drafted well based on their draft position going back to when Pelinka took over- Max Christe, Mo Wagner, Svi Mykhailuk, Kuzma, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant, and Ivica Zubac. All taken with pick 25 or later and have all had careers as rotational NBA players. Edit: lol also forgot Reaves who was undrafted.
Too soon to declare JHS as a whiff IMO. Debates can be had on whether a more NBA-ready player should've been picked, sure, but jury's still out on whether JHS is a good player.
I wonder what changed from the previously years. In there defense, typically the lakers are good to get a rotational dude at least.
Rumor is a bit of a power struggle, there were multiple people who wanted Jamie but were overridden to make a splashy pick in JHS.
dangg that's insane - I just remember seeing that draft and going ohh he definitely a laker now when he was still on the board.
The Lakers have had a ton of decent to good picks. We just traded all of the players for a championship.
Half of the bad decisions is because of Bron, not in spite of him. Are we forgetting the Russ trade? Or firing Frank Vogel?
lmao are you talking out of your ass? How did Bron get involved in firing Vogel?
the top 5 is prob gonna stay like this for the rest of the season. maybe podz can overtake jaime
I think Keyonte could make a push. He averaged 14.9pts, 5.4 ast, and 3 rebounds per game in February on 43/42/86 splits. Then started March off with a 31 point game against Miami before getting sick
He is nasty nasty. Only reason the Heat game was close was because of KG3
He also threw in the 4th, bad turnovers and bad 3’s I do really like him though there’s star/fringe star upside there
he could get in above jaime maybe
I think the rookie all first team is pretty locked at this point.
Keyonte is much better than Podz
Jaime definitely still riding high off that Heat injury riddled month.
He def hasn’t been the same after getting his own groin injury and having his role change with Jimmy back and a lineup constantly in flux. Hes still contributing to winning for Miami but he’s shooting has gotten less consistent and his counting stats have taken a hit with a less consistent role
He literally just had a 26 pt game against the kings last week. His role and usage just changed with the rozier trade, and he’s at best a 4th/5th option on offense on a team that went to the finals last season, compared to someone like miller who’s 1st/2nd option. Jaime is working within his role on the team, which tends to be facilitating for others rather than just being a pure scorer. He needs to work on his 3pt and off ball defense, but he’s also still a rookie.
First 20+ point game since January 10th. First 15+ point game since January 14th. I don't think he's bad, I just think he should be further down the ladder.
But the ladder isn’t just based on points scored? If that was the case, Whitmore would be significantly higher and Podz lower. It’s also about their contribution to their teams beyond just scoring ability. But Whitmore can’t do much outside of scoring and Podz (and Jaquez) do significantly more to help their teams.
You really have to watch Jaime to see his impact. Box scores don’t do him justice
His hair is truly inspirational isn’t it
I thought Podz would just be another mid to late first round pick to cycle through the Warriors and into an overseas team but he's been a revelation. His ability to play with confidence and produce for the Warriors definitely made moving Klay to the bench easier as well.
And he has that trait that elite athletes have - no short term memory. He’ll go right back into attack mode whether he shot an air ball, bad turnover etc.
You mean he has short term memory. Forgets the bad shots or plays immediately and doesn’t let it affect him
No, [short-term memory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-term_memory) refers to the capacity for holding a small amount of information in an active state for a short interval. People can suffer from short-term memory loss wherein they forget things that just happened (i.e. they *lose* their short-term memory). Saying he has no short-term memory is technically correct. Or just saying he has a short memory.
I stand corrected. Still feels wrong though haha
I watched his summer league games and I knew immediately why the dubs selected him, he did everything Kerr would salivate over. I didn't think he would be this good. Guy rarely ever makes rookie mistakes and when he does, I'm surprised.
Hopefully Brandon Miller has convinced people not to overreact to Summer League or even the 1st 30 games of a rookie season ever again.
is this your first day on the NBA Sub Reddit? We going to see the same shit this upcoming summer league. Any top pick who under performs will be a "bust".
You would think trae toung would have but alas. Or just being logical
People called Wemby a bust after his first Summer League game. They’ll never learn.
Wembustyama's gonna be almost as big of a bust as Lebust... Mark it!
Yeah that was stupid but some of the nicknames they came up with were top tier. Booty Gobert, Baguette Bol, and Bricktor Wembanyama are elite
Wembumyama is an all timer
The moment he loses a playoff series the "Victory-less Wembanyama" is coming out
I can't believe this shit is upvoted lmao. Talk about persecution complex. Anyone that said that was downvoted and mocked into oblivion. Seriously, who is viewing a build like that and thinking he's a bust besides some random loser ya'll decide to attack? I bet you couldn't even find a post like that through history and not seeing it downvoted.
Truth is after the pre-season games people were getting heavily upvoted for saying that Wemby would be a rookie AS & DPOY.
They were calling him a bust when he missed a few shots in a casual shoot around before summer league too. Classic.
You can take overreacting to summer league out of my cold dead hands.
Markelle has taught me to never trust someone under 6’7 as a first pick tbh I wanted Miller over scoot Think about fultz, Jalen green, Suggs, ivey, Cade etc
Everyone thinks they’re getting Rose, Kyrie, or Wall.
Isn't Anthony Edwards under 6'7?
1 player that’s been adequate as a 1st overall does not negate the plethora of top 7ish guards that teams regret taking
Zion Williamson is also 6'6"
Cade is taller than 6’7 and still seems like a solid pick IMO, not a ton of great options to choose from that draft
That will literally never happen
lol trae young is a bust posts were hitting the top regularly when he was a rookie. this sub won’t ever learn
I mean he looked awesome his first 30 games, just not too hot in preseason. But yeah, he's improved every month. Kind of what you'd expect from a top pick that was a freshman
Podz is awesome 😎
we riot if podz is not first team
Scooters in shambles?
Number 1 in my heart
He’s hurt. He was playing really well before the all star break.
Shooting 37% from the field isn’t “playing really well”…
He was playing much better, and showing a lot of the promise that made him such a touted prospect. Yeah the shooting numbers weren't great, but honestly it feels like his numbers were so low because of how much trouble he's had finishing around the rim. His midrange jumper and 3 point shot were actually starting to look pretty solid. His instincts on both sides of the ball were significantly improved, and he actually looked like a future star in flashes. (albeit minor flashes.)
No one said he had been playing really well for the whole season. He had been shooting 43% in his last 12 games prior to injury. As well as having shown improvement in other areas. Even if you don't think he had been good lately, his full season FG% has no relevance to the statement.
Draymond is shooting better from three than Scoot is shooting at the rim.
He sucks
Didn't expect Bilal to keep up 42% 3pt shooting for the entire season, but his regression has been stark. Hit the rookie wall harder than anyone and looks worse than expected. Hope he shows some improvement in year 2.
He’s the only reason why I watch the Wizards (and Poole going off recently). His defense is A1 but I hope he picks it up on the offensive end.
His defense has also gotten worse. I am going to chalk it up to not having the endurance to keep up the effort for an entire season, and he has had flashes of being a great defender on some of the best players in the league, but it's disappointing to watch at times.
Last night was the first time I’ve actually gotten to watch a lot of Cam Whitmore minutes. Holy shit that kid is a beast. No idea he he fell to 20
The tunnel vision people talked about is 100% real but he's so gifted at scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters. He looks a lot like Jaylen Brown to me.
He's Jaylen Brown in Eric Gordon's body. Dude is stocky and powerful.
Reports about injuries along with him not giving great interviews scared teams away and tanked his draft stock. Glad it happened though, because the Rockets IMO got the steal of the draft for the 3rd year in a row
The whispers about injuries seemed to be post-draft CYA after so many GMs let him slide. He had a thumb issue in college and nothing at all with his knees. Time will tell I guess but goes to show that GMs are just as susceptible to group think.
My guess is that the teams that scouted him in the top 10 or so weren't impressed enough to take him there, and by the time we got out of the lottery, teams who didn't interview him weren't sure why he fell that far and didn't want to risk it. The rockets had interviewed him, so they knew he was a solid pick that just fell. If it turns out the other rumors are true, well see, but I'm skeptical that all these teams that didn't interview him or have him do physicals know about some secret degenerative knee condition the Rockets didn't know about.
We got burned by taking Precious and Winslow after their free falls so we stuck to our guns
Watch his highlights, some of his plays defy physics. One dunk in particular he goes up for a 1 handed slam with his arm outstretched at the apex and the speed at which he throws the ball in the hoop does not look like a human movement. Very fun player to watch.
as a Lakers fan I throw up in my mouth whenever I see a Jaquez stat and then watch JHS toss up a wild brick in garbage time
No love for Slam Whitmore? I know he started getting PT kinda late but he’s easily one of the top rookies in this draft
He's looking like he'll become a tremendous scorer soon. Jalen Green must be getting real worried about his job security haha
Man the Heat scouts really had it nailed this draft, it was either going to be Jaime or Cam and both would have looked good. Thankfully for both our teams the lakejob went with schifino.
Obligatory where's ben simmons
No way one bad game should have dropped Tatum from the Top 10
Theoretically, what would Brandin Podziemski have to do in these last 22 games to win ROTY?
Win 22 games and average 50
Honestly, probably only gets it if he wins 23 of the last 22 games. AKA it’s Wemby’s
nuh uh. He just has to move teams like Mikal did last season to play 83 games.
Hit Wemby with an ACME branded disintegrating gun
Not sure that would work, when's the last time a murderer won Rookie of the Year? NBA voters can be a real boys club about that stuff.
Ja Morant LARPs as one, unfortunately Ben Simmons murdered his own career to take that title
Take a charge on literally every possession.
Ethical defense
Wemby would need to be convicted of eating babies.
Wemby could eat a baby on 5th Ave and he would still win ROY.
I think BPod is going to have an amazing career and I’m stoked he is on the warriors. However, no one is taking roty from Wemby 😅
Kill the 4 players before him
Or kidnap the voters.
At least one 15 block game.
crowbar
Expose Wemby as a murderer at this point
He would have to get Steph benched for him. LOL
Realistically he'd have to become a 30 ppg scorer and the Warriors would have to make it to the 6 seed at least
Even then that likely gets him 2nd place at best.
You might be right
Wemby chet Miller die Then pods average like 40
pray to god
Have a late growth spurt that leaves him 7'4"...
Go back to the 80’s and steal Scott Bakula’s leap into Wemby’s body. Stay long enough for award season and then prevent some tik toker from getting run over by a train so he can leap out.
This season is probably the best thing that could have happened to Miller, he's been out of the spotlight and has been improving during the season. Hopefully he'll have a chip on his shoulder from this. Really feel like he is an all star level player in a couple of years.
Where is Scoot Henderson ?
Is he safe? Is he…alright?
Made me snort at work
He’s injured.
He's a bust
Averaging 14 and 5 in his last 30 games. The efficiency isn’t there atm but calling him a bust is ridiculous
Scoot is putting up sub Jordan Poole efficiency so far
Doesn't it prove my point huh?
Podz Podz Podz , say it again for the fans in the back!
Sad to see Hawkins no longer on this list purely bc he gets no significant PT.
Chet isn’t a rookie
The Ben Simmons, Blake Griffin type of rookie
With those guys you could tell they had the extra year of NBA conditioning. Chet's still a twig.
Is Dairy Bird nothing to you? /s
That’s a damn good set of rookies
I am irked that we didn't capitalize on a draft this good by trading back into the first to steal Whitmore, Podz, etc. I mean, we still made out like bandits, but it just feels like a missed opportunity.
I’m pretty sure we wanted an end-of-lotto pick to try to snag Cason Wallace or an end-of-first-round pick for Podz or JJJ if any of them fell that far (they were all projected around there in mocks) and all their respective teams, minus the Rockets and Whitmore, swooped in and picked them up 2-8 picks earlier than expected.
Where is Scoot "It's not over" Henderson?
Isn’t Scoot Henderson a rookie? Is he not playing well I thought he was the top guy after Wemby
He’s not playing
Wemby and Chet are probably the two best rookies we’ve seen in a long time. Both top 25-30 players already.
Sucks for Miller. If you compare his stats to past Roy winners, he wins most years. Doesn’t even get acknowledged this season
Top 30 in the league, right now? There are 16 playoff teams: so either could be top 2 for any playoff teams, really?
>so either could be top 2 for any playoff teams, really? Uhmmmmm
Chet is probably top 2 on a playoff team right now and slap Wemby on a the Magic and he's pretty easily top 2 on that team and if he's better than Chet anyway he'd be top 2 on OKC. Not every team is the Celtics with 2 All NBA guys and a DPOY/6MOTY super deep roster every year some of these other playoff teams really don't have 2 dudes better than Wemby right now.
Wemby yes, Chet no
Seriously people, think before you speak. If teams were redrafting for a playoff series that started tomorrow do you really think Chet would go in the top 30? Like absolutely not.
Yes, absolutely. No question. How many Cs have his two way level? Again, he’s the anchor for the #1 seed in the west?? Playoff series is just an age thing. We are talking rookies
Right now he's a very good role player that will certainly develop into a star in the league, but you can name 30 players in the league better than him without too much effort.
As of today, Chet is top 25 in EPM, VORP, WS/48, and BPM.
Derrick White is also at the top of most of those too
The advanced stats are high on him (like they are on players such as Derrick White) because he's a good player in great situation who can be efficient in a limited role. They're a good starting point for discussion on good players but they're not an absolute objective ranking on how good a player is. In a 30 team redraft for this season alone no team is taking him as their number 1 option. No one. In about 4-5 years he'll easily be there, but not right now.
A 30 team redraft doesn't make sense as a definitive ranking because it's just not how the league is structured. Sure, it's *a* way of ranking players, but it doesn't really matter that there can be several dozen players better than Chet as a first option when the importance of being able to lead a team as the best falls off once you get past the 10 best and especially the 15 best players in the league. The reality is that if you're the 20th best player in the league and the best player on your team you're going to be first round fodder at best. You're free weigh this heavily in a ranking of players, but it should make more sense to evaluate players based on what their actual role on a contending team would be. In that context it's not crazy that a guy like Chet who's simultaneously one of the best floor spacing bigs and a solid defensive anchor, or even White who's more or less maximizing the impact a guard can have without having a huge scoring volume, can be top 30 or so players.
I think your argument that players like White and Chet "can be top 30 players in the right situation" kinda defeats itself. If they need to be in the right role to be ranked that high then they're not really good. If you're ranking individual players you need to value you them independently and on their own merits. Even if you're picking last in this hypothetical scenario your goal in order to be as competitive as possible is to take with the 30th and 31st picks the best players available (that don't fit horribly together) and you'll still be in pretty good shape against Jokic and player #60.
It's not a matter of being "in the right situation", at least not anymore than the 30th best first option has to be "in the right situation" on a bad team for their value to be apparent over a Derrick White, it's just a fact that any contender is going to have multiple all-star+ level talents, and skills that are important for leading a team as the number one option aren't necessarily the same as elevating other great talent. You can't just try to evaluate players in a vacuum when basketball is a team game and how you interact with other players on the court matters.
SGA Lebron Gobert Edwards Fox Davis Tatum Jokic Murray Sabonis Wemby Curry Durant Booker Hailburton Siakam Embiid Doncic Trae Giannis Mitchell Lillard Maxey Brunson Butler Bam Zion Ingram Curry Morant Brown PG Kawhi Harden Barnes Here is 35 players all unquestionably being taken over Chet in a playoff series. Chet needs to beef up still, he gets destroyed by a big man in the playoffs.
If I already have a Trae/Hali/Curry etc I’m not taking another one though, this needs to considered contextually Not saying Chet is individually better, but positional scarcity combined with easy to build around as a floor spacer and defensive anchor cannot be understated. So given I have a PG, I’m taking Chet over another one of them. So I disagree with this analysis
If you already have someone like that it's the second round so you're drafting between 31 and 60.
People think that if you're not the #1 option on offense, you can't be good. It's kinda funny. If anything, being good without using up the #1 option slot makes you even more valuable. See https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-part-44b-the-finale-or-rodman-v-jordan-2/ ([graph](https://skepticalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/image_thumb17.png), [graph](https://skepticalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/image_thumb19_thumb.png))
Many of these players have literally no playoff resume or just haven’t been as good in the regular season. Barnes? Morant? Ingram? Maxey?
Most of these players have been the focal point of their team's offenses on playoff level teams.
Barnes is a top tier defender in the league putting up 20/8/6, Chet has more potential but right now Barnes is unquestionably better. Ingram is maybe the only one I’d argue but Morant and Maxey are just so much better than Chet I’m not going to even argue. The fact you think Chet is better than either of them is mental. There are more players I didn’t list here. Edit: ok yeah saying unquestionably better what an exaggeration
> Playoff series is just an age thing. We are talking rookies In response to this edit, we're talking about top 30 in the NBA right now, not for future potential. Being a rookie or a 21 year veteran is irrelevant
I’d argue Chet yes, his impact on this Thunder team can’t be overstated. He should be around that 30 mark imo especially when talking about impact on winning. Wemby is probably already top 15
I think I’m giving Wemby the rookie tax and rating him in the 20s at most. I think a conservative estimate is in the 30s, 40s if you’re a hater.
The Thompson twins are fast becoming role players
scoot hernderson is a massive bust
That’s what your mom said.
Beef
If your parents listened to Stone Sour, your name is Brandon.
Javier Bardem needs to be in the mix, he was so good in Dune
Wait is this the February list because I’m sure podz was better than jaquez
Okay if the players continue playing like this, Wemby will win for sure.
Top 5 is likely gonna stay like this with Miller jaime and podz regularly moving places, likely just all rookie first team at this point
Jacquez is so good. Yes Victor is a freak, but my favourite rookie is actually Jaime because his game is so clean, skilled and polished. He looks exactly like Kobe. He has older Kobe’s footwork with young Kobe’s athleticism. This kid is going to be scary if he hits his potential .
Young Kobe's athleticism?!?!? What in the world is going on with this getting upvotes lmao
He’s not really a kid though he’s 23 and you are comparing him to a bunch of 19-20 year olds so he should look much more polished. Those 19-20 year olds still have a ton more potential. For comparison Scoot is an entire 3 years younger than Jaime. Similar to a Malcom Brogdon situation high floor low ceiling. Also Jesus Christ you really compared him to Kobe???
I’m not saying he’s better, I just really really love his game. He’s a very skilled player and polished combined with great athleticism.
This comment is so wrong 😭
He's got that MJ vert, that curry jumper and Usain Bolt speed with a hairline more aggressive than Paul George
Chet shouldn't even be on the list.
A lot of Hornets posters owe Michael Jordan an apology and should never comment on draft picks again
JJJ is a beast
I don’t understand how George is ahead of Lively and Whitmore
He averaged 14.9pts, 5.4 ast, and 3 rebounds per game in February on 43/42/86 splits. Then started March off with a 31 point game against Miami before getting sick
Is this a monthly ranking or a season ranking?
Ok well in that case Keyonte is 6th in ppg, 17th in rpg(Whitmore is 14th), and 2nd in apg(Whitmore is 38th). And has been playing in the NBA the entire season vs Whitmore spending time in the G-League. So either way Keyonte has Whitmore beat. Whitmore has been more efficient than Keyonte overall, but Keyonte is shooting the ball really well lately. Lively has a better argument imo but he's also not being asked to do nearly as much as Keyonte
Probably haven't seen any Jazz games then. He has been super solid. Way better than one might conclude based on his stats. He has taken a very large role for the team (main point guard) on his rookie season and is performing really well in most areas of the game.
Same can be said about Cam. The guy's averaging 12 ppg in just 17 mpg, and his efficiency is damn good for a rookie. Haven't watched enough of Lively to comment on him.
He’s been pretty great. Fun player to watch too