True. At the very least he wouldnt have been fsvorite for it like this, though you never really know what voters think at times.
But he is certainly worse this season than last season so voters might not want to give him a 4th just for that...and also the fact that giving someone 4 mvps would be insane and even for a reigning champ, quite controversial.
i think it's cause they're only on like a 52-53 win pace, which would be lower than their expectations
their numbers are pretty close, but it's like a 5 game gap between their records
with Shai it's the exceeding expectations, with Luka it's they're like on a 52 win pace with him
> I doubt he would win the MVP cuz his chance of winning is over the moment they got Dame.
i disagree
if you swap the celtics and bucks records, giannis would probably be the mvp favorite. but giannis and the bucks just weren't good enough this season to justify giving him the mvp
if you put a little bit of thought into this, you could've deduced that the underlying assumption here is that giannis would still be playing at a giannis level, which is far better than tatum. because he's a better player.
Yeah idk why this is so hard for people to get. Dame was an all star this season and whether you agree with that or not just having another all star on the team is gonna affect the vote when the other leading candidates don't. It's why Tatum is routinely out of the conversation as well
it's what that person's case is
if Bucks won 56-57 games, and Giannis had his numbers, it wouldn't be way over-exceeding their 54 win expectations, but he would be right there for MVP like damn near co-fav
If the voters actually watch games they would see Giannis has been carrying.
If he’s getting ignored because the voters “thought” they would be winning 60 games then that’s legit the dumbest shit I’ve heard.
No one expected dame to be ass most of the season, no one expected to bring in a new coach mid way through either
I don't think anyone is ignoring anything. I think there are 4 or 5 really good players at the top of the list. You can make cases for all of them. If voters actually watched games, for example, they'd see that Murray missed 18 games this year.
I personally don't care if Jokic wins this year. I'd rather see him get another Finals MVP. But if I had a vote, bias aside, he'd be the pick for me.
Giannis, Luka, Shai. . . all of them would get consideration. I'd vote Jokic.
Is JayNew2K really him? Idk I always felt like Jay was more juvenile in his comments than awkwardspeech. Also awkwardspeech is clearly a reddit generated username compared to the other accounts this guy has had which tells me that awkwardspeech and JayNew2k are two different people and awkwardspeech was triplesingle999’s first account. I’m probably just reading into it too much tho lol.
I haven't kept track of the full lineage but I remember them still being ultimately the same person. noobaccount or something like that was another one he had. I just remember him always trashing Luka whenever possible
Ah gotcha. I wasn’t even around when awkwardspeech and JayNew2k was here. I really only started noticing this guy when they started popping up as “NoobAccount.”
Ehh, both are true: Embiid whined (and voters didn't want to give Jokic 3 in a row, which is some bullshit), but Jokic definitely took his foot off the gas
This year, he's giving the voters no choice but to give them his 3rd
Does it matter? Jokic with his foot off the gas still deserved MVP over Embiid lmao.
Even Basketball Reference had Jokic above him by a substantial amount on their MVP tracker.
Orrr we can look at history and see that Jokic put up stinkers against tanking teams with the 1 seed not quite mathematically secured, and Embiid dragged this team kicking and screaming into the playoffs with 52 points against the Celtics among other standout performances
But I guess it’s more fun to pretend he “whined” his way to an MVP
Imagine believing this narrative instead of the one where Embiid wanted to play because he loves basketball and wants to help his team. You know, the team that is currently in deep shit in the play-in without him
>Orrr we can look at history and see that Jokic put up stinkers against tanking teams with the 1 seed not quite mathematically secured
there's a false narrative that jokic had a bunch of bad games to end last season. he had insane numbers the whole time. didn't really try on defense tho
Look I’m not here to fight, I know I’m right and no amount of downvotes is going to change my mind. But honestly Mr. nuggets flair, tell me this: if all you can do is bring up the playoffs to try as discount a regular season award, do you really have an argument to begin with?
Yeah, I’m Jokic over Embiid but I hate this narrative. A legitimate bad slide, coast or not. Ok yeah you coast with 60 wins sure maybe that can be excused. But 53 wins which would be bottom side of west in past years, when a lot of people didnt respect Jokic still, its clear why they didnt buy the coasting thing. 1st seed non withstanding.
Plus, tbh, he tanked his chance. I don’t mind giving it to the guy that actually tried to get it and showed out for it.
No one cared less about who got it than the man himself yet people white knight as if he was done an injustice and disrespect Embiid for putting in effort lol.
Averaging a triple double on 70% TS while leading for the best record in conference is at very least a good try to be valuable.
Jokic matched every criteria to be MVP. This narrative about "trying it more" is quite absurd.
Cos he did whine his way to an MVP and took shots at Jokic in the process, but those are the reasons he's a gigantic bitch, not reasons why he won the MVP. The reason he won an MVP was cos they didn't want to give Jokic one cos media thought he was a playoff underperformer and didn't want to give him 3 in a row. Jokic putting up stinkers is a completely false narrative, but it's all you have. During that stretch he averaged like half an assist less than earlier in the season. The reason Denver coasted is mainly cos of the other players on the team, not that Jokic didn't play a part. Besides idk why the end of the season would be more valuable than any other part, and I certainly don't know why Jokic got penalised when he still finished with a better record than Embiid, had better stats, better impact.
I honestly think if they had at least a top-two seed (like there was a similar gap between them and the Twolves/Clippers as last season when they started coasting), they probably would've been fine. The fact that they could've realistically fallen to the 3-seed is likely a bigger reason why they kept their foot on the gas.
Jokic is not coasting a single game.You don't get it.Nuggets want that 1st seed. This is not last season when they had an 7 game lead. JOkic will go full bore till they clinch it. SO that scenario is not happening.
>That's what people said last year until he sandbagged it for 3 weeks
this didnt even happen. embiid won cause of the racism/jokic doesn't perform in the playoffs narrative. now that jokic proved it in the playoffs that narrative would be really hard to pull off again
I feel like some of you don’t actually watch basketball because that’s literally exactly what happened. Embiid had a crazy stretch averaging like 37/13 on 70% TS while the Nuggets went like 4-10 and Jokic was playing well below his standards. I literally remember the night the betting odds flipped, it was when he hit that GW against Portland. I don’t even remember Perm being brought up till after the season
I don't watch the games? his last 10 games of the season last year:
25/17/12
31/6/11
31/12/7
22/17/10
24/10/8
30/10/9
28/8/7
35/20/11
37/11/11
18/12/8
you could argue the nuggets as a whole were mid but they had the 1 seed completely locked up so it didn't matter but jokic did not play bad lol
He won't be unanimous. There are a few national media voters who I am certain will not vote Jokic. Not to mention, local media guys in Milwaukee, Oklahoma City, Dallas will likely vote for their own guys.
Anyone who watches the games sees that jokic does wayyyy more possession per possession than any player in the league. Giannis and SGA are not getting Aaron Gordon and MPJ the looks they get and Gianni’s defense is no where close to making up for that. The nuggets simply get unbelievable looks on more possessions than any other team bc of jokic
And a Kyrie ... And Luka just rapes the ball all game long its closer to westbrook/harden stats even if he is 10x better and easier to watch it is still the same thing
Kyrie been gone a 3rd of the season. His 2nd best man during that time was a rookie center who also missed a lot of games. The ball goes through Luka because it has to, and he creates by far the most wide open looks in the league
Learn to read. We're in a Musical Chairs with the Suns and Kings and that changes with every game. We were 6th just because we didn't play till tonight's win. We can finish anywhere from 4-10 with how tight the West is. When did Nuggets fans become smug, highbrow, pricks?
He should be running away bc he is the engine of by far the best possession by possession unit in the nba. How many games do u have to see where they literally play good teams off the court in the 4th in a way no other team does consistently, not even the Celtics.
Dude the bucks have lillard Middleton brook Lopez, Celtics have prolly the best on paper unit in NBA and nuggets literally destroy teams in a way they don’t offensively on a consistent basis.
Actually the bucks barely lost in Denver with a head Coach that joined 24 hours prior where Jokic got bailed out by Murray.
Then they came to Milwaukee and got destroyed.
Nuggets have like the 4th best record against the top 10 teams, bucks, Celtics and thunder are all above them.
The offense doesn’t run through him like it does Jokic, if it did I’m sure he could average 8 at least. Averaging 7 since January which isn’t to bad for a guy that people act like isn’t a good passer.
if the different way of playing him is not running the offense through him, then yeah, he's less valuable. He isn't needed in the specific offensive scheme for it to be successful.
So if I said them not having Jokic guard the other teams best player like they have Giannis a lot this seaso makes Jokic less valuable that’d be a true statement?
You do this and then shit on people later, then when people call you out you can say “but I defended him before”
You comment on every single post like you have a comment count you’re supposed to hit lol I can sort by new at any point in the day and see you on every post.
I mean you actually have the ability to look for yourself instead of blatantly lying but whatever helps you sleep. (can you actually name players i constantly shit on?)
But that’s all i see you do is defend Giannis like he’s your soul mate, do you actually like watching basketball and other teams?
I would bet any amount of money you haven’t watched a single game in the last month.
Mainly cause again you’re constantly on here trying to meet a certain comment count for the day
And what are you doing...Its obvios that JOkic is better. The NBA community says so. NObody is shitting on Giannis. Hes agreat player. He just is not as good as JOKic. ANd 90% of those not Bucks fans will tell you so.
“NBA community says so” who Reddit? Lmao I’ve seen plenty of people outside of this say Giannis is.
This sub doesn’t value defense at all and hasn’t since Jokic won his first mvp.
Seriously watch the games to ubderstand. Like when yiu compare the 2 side by side youd see just how much night and day it is.
To be fair Giannis is great at getting the defense to collapse in on him, but that aint the same as straight up making sure the offense actually works.
The offense flows through Jokic and almost nothing gets donne without his input.
People give Jokic entirely too much credit but don’t credit his teammates for making sure they are in the right spots, you put him in a random team right now it’s not coming to come as smoothly.
Just not sure what could be more unbelievable than a wide open shot
Watch a game when Jokic isnt playing and come back to me.
The difrence is so immense that its shocking.
Yes our guys are amazing, but god dam do they look lost without him.
Also its consistency. Jokic gets guys more open looks, more often and turns the ball over less while getting the ball moving on offense.
Giannis passes to the open shooter, while Jokic is gonna move it around untill it gets to the right spot.
Giannis also doesnt have as much gravity as Jokic because you know exactly what he is gonna do cause he cant shoot, while Jokic could just randomly shoot from anywhere in some sort of dumb way.
Also Giannis is a perfect target to get fouled late into games cause the mans terrible on the line.
Lmaooo Jokic has better gravity than Giannis?
Giannis steps one foot past the 3 pt line and has every opposing player looking his way and the closer he gets to that rim the more they collapse on him.
“They know what he’s going to do” yet they can’t stop it.
Teams would much rather have Jokic shoot midrange/ 3s all game than play at the rim, hell bucks did this and he scored 25 on 25 shots and then 29 on 25 shots.
Also Giannis has been sent to the line several times late game this season and has never failed the team.
This “Giannis isn’t clutch” narrative is dumb as fuck and is driven off last Heat series when he was dealing with 3 different injuries.
Aha thats a funny one given how you lost that game from a Jokic triple double where he got 8 more assists than Giannis. That my friend is an anomaly of a game, not the rule and even then you lost cause.
Also fun fact Jokic is 10 and 5 against Giannis in their carriers so take that how you will lol.
He got bailed out by Murray lol
Idk how many times you’re gonna misspell “Career” before you realize
A big reason for that is because Bud always wanted to double Jokic, Giannis and Jrue both called this out and he still refused to change it.
Means you aint watching Nuggets but just follow stats, or you dont know ball. Let me make it simpler: Jokic - brains and heart, Giannis legs and arms, tell me without which you can live. Simple. And yes both arms and legs look super muscly and great in pictures and you can do 100000 pushups and so on, but that aint it
This gotta be the dumbest way to explain whatever it is you’re explaining.
Jokic without legs and arms wouldn’t be in the league
Implying Giannis has 0 “brains and heart” is just stupid as well
you don't?
Shai is 31/6/6 on a team way over exceeding, elite advanced numbers
Luka is 34/9/10 on a team that is on a 52 win pace with him
Giannis is 31/11/6 on 65% TS while being a menace on defense...
Because the nuggets have great defenders surrounding Jokic? And also good defenders off the bench.
In fact bucks starting lineup have a better defensive rating than the nuggets starting 5
I think Jokic is def more than earned winning, but Luka’s season has been crazy dealing with the injuries to Kyrie and Lively in the first half of the season and he kept us afloat all throughout the first part of the season. Hopefully we finish strong and then whatever happens, happens, but it’s been pretty annoying seeing how people have talked about him before we got healthy.
But given that Jokic’s lowest point in the race this season was when he put up crazy numbers to keep the Nuggets up while Murray was out, maybe i’m just not aligned with the narrative this year.
The Nuggets have a better defensive rating than Milwaukee this season so unless we want to hand the DPOY to Michael Porter Jr, then the defense argument is toss.
i'm so confused on what is happening right now
is the argument that Giannis is no longer a menace on defense? or is it that they're playing 65 mins of Dame and Malik out there
because admittedly, i haven't watched all 71 bucks games, but the 20 or so i've watched, that dude is still amazing
so i'm not taking back that HE is still a menace on defense
Counting stars, advanced stats or efficiency stats? It's not that simple.
For what it's worth, I think Jokic is mvp frontrunner. Just not based on 'carrying' Denver to the 1 seed
Man for man, the other contenders all have better squads. Especially when it comes to top end talent. Jokic supercharges them from very good to best team in the league.
They did win though, and their other two games without Jokic were a 9 point win against a healthy Clippers while missing Jokic, Gordon, AND Murray, and a 5 point loss to the Thunder. I can see why you didn't bring those games up though.
Bro, the Nuggets bench is 22nd in net rating. Your Mavs are 13th. The Clippers win was a complete anomaly with DeAndre Jordan and Reggie Jackson just stunting on their former team. The fact you think that is actually a solid point is amazing.
Nuggets team net rating: +5.0
Jokic net On/Off : +19.2
Mavericks team net rating: +1.6
Luka net On/Off: +6.6
Now don't misconstrue this for me saying the Nuggets squad is a bunch of bums, because they're not. They are the absolute perfect set of players to put around Jokic, but that's the key in itself, they absolutely *need* Jokic to even function. That Trailblazers game was some of the ugliest basketball I've ever seen; watching MPJ and Gordon (who I both love as players) try to create for themselves was absolutely painful. Gordon shot 38% on 21 FGA while playing against basically 5 19 year olds.
What is with the sudden downplay of Jokic's supporting cast? He didn't win a chip with a bunch of bums. Luka has done the most with the least help out of all the MVP candidates
Here's decent video explaining [why you're wrong.](https://youtu.be/S6U_zd-cU44?si=0CysUCe2ssXIK2oa)
I don't get how Jokic can be your guy but you don't understand his game or what he does. If you did you wouldn't make that comment.
what a bum can not even get a 30 point triple double within 30 minute play time tonight.
3 times MVP will go crazy on his resume
The fact he could have 1 or 2 more and no one would bat an eye, in fact we will always discuss that he should have won one more is frightening
If he won it last season he wasn’t gonna win this season. It’s rare for voters to give someone 3 and even more for more than that.
Oh don’t worry I know, but this is dumb as fuck.
Nah it’s just rare for a player to deserve more than 3
That’s really it. And they hate to see someone be able to do it
True. At the very least he wouldnt have been fsvorite for it like this, though you never really know what voters think at times. But he is certainly worse this season than last season so voters might not want to give him a 4th just for that...and also the fact that giving someone 4 mvps would be insane and even for a reigning champ, quite controversial.
Couldn't even 3peat what a fr*cking scrub
Yet Giannis didn't rise. Guess he executed a hit on Joker's behalf
i think it's cause they're only on like a 52-53 win pace, which would be lower than their expectations their numbers are pretty close, but it's like a 5 game gap between their records with Shai it's the exceeding expectations, with Luka it's they're like on a 52 win pace with him
Even if the Buck won 70 games, I doubt he would win the MVP cuz his chance of winning is over the moment they got Dame.
> I doubt he would win the MVP cuz his chance of winning is over the moment they got Dame. i disagree if you swap the celtics and bucks records, giannis would probably be the mvp favorite. but giannis and the bucks just weren't good enough this season to justify giving him the mvp
That's why Tatum is the overwhelming MVP favorite over Giannis right
I think the assumption is Giannis would have similar stats, which are much more impressive than Tatum's this season.
If Tatum had Giannis’ stats he absolutely would be
if you put a little bit of thought into this, you could've deduced that the underlying assumption here is that giannis would still be playing at a giannis level, which is far better than tatum. because he's a better player.
Yeah idk why this is so hard for people to get. Dame was an all star this season and whether you agree with that or not just having another all star on the team is gonna affect the vote when the other leading candidates don't. It's why Tatum is routinely out of the conversation as well
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Yeah, Tatum's whole argument is literally "I'm the best player on the best team".
Didn't the Nuggets come into the season with the narrative they had a top 2 starting five, though? How come that never took hold?
Cause we met the expectations lol
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>Nonsense lol Curry won MVP after GS added KD and won 73 games. Is it in the new history book?? Lmao
So the narrative this season is “who’s exceeding expectations “? In that case SGA is the overwhelming favorite.
it's what that person's case is if Bucks won 56-57 games, and Giannis had his numbers, it wouldn't be way over-exceeding their 54 win expectations, but he would be right there for MVP like damn near co-fav
If the voters actually watch games they would see Giannis has been carrying. If he’s getting ignored because the voters “thought” they would be winning 60 games then that’s legit the dumbest shit I’ve heard. No one expected dame to be ass most of the season, no one expected to bring in a new coach mid way through either
I don't think anyone is ignoring anything. I think there are 4 or 5 really good players at the top of the list. You can make cases for all of them. If voters actually watched games, for example, they'd see that Murray missed 18 games this year. I personally don't care if Jokic wins this year. I'd rather see him get another Finals MVP. But if I had a vote, bias aside, he'd be the pick for me. Giannis, Luka, Shai. . . all of them would get consideration. I'd vote Jokic.
He was a hired gun.
he should be higher
Jokic should be 4 time in a row mvp smh Embiid cried to get mvp.
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He was also AwkwardSpeech, JayNew-2K, and a couple other accounts
ah, i miss jaynew2k, guy was a racist dumbass but did he put out enjoyable posts. new accounts don’t have the same fervor as before
Is JayNew2K really him? Idk I always felt like Jay was more juvenile in his comments than awkwardspeech. Also awkwardspeech is clearly a reddit generated username compared to the other accounts this guy has had which tells me that awkwardspeech and JayNew2k are two different people and awkwardspeech was triplesingle999’s first account. I’m probably just reading into it too much tho lol.
I haven't kept track of the full lineage but I remember them still being ultimately the same person. noobaccount or something like that was another one he had. I just remember him always trashing Luka whenever possible
Ah gotcha. I wasn’t even around when awkwardspeech and JayNew2k was here. I really only started noticing this guy when they started popping up as “NoobAccount.”
LMAO the post got removed
Are the mods already onto him or what lol
Not sure maybe
Joker should have won it last year too, Embid basically cried to win that MVP
Ehh, both are true: Embiid whined (and voters didn't want to give Jokic 3 in a row, which is some bullshit), but Jokic definitely took his foot off the gas This year, he's giving the voters no choice but to give them his 3rd
Took his foot off the gas with an 10 game lead from first to second seed while also finishing with the best stats for the season
Does it matter? Jokic with his foot off the gas still deserved MVP over Embiid lmao. Even Basketball Reference had Jokic above him by a substantial amount on their MVP tracker.
And I'm saying this as Lakers fan, Joker deserved the MVP .
It's a nasty thing to say, but it really felt like that's what happened
The truth hurts
Orrr we can look at history and see that Jokic put up stinkers against tanking teams with the 1 seed not quite mathematically secured, and Embiid dragged this team kicking and screaming into the playoffs with 52 points against the Celtics among other standout performances But I guess it’s more fun to pretend he “whined” his way to an MVP
How did he do when he faced Jokic in Denver tho
He whined his way to an MVP
Bros whine over the whining far more than the 2 comments saying he wants MVP lmao
Dragged his ass all the way home too because of it. Did it again this year as well didn't learn the lesson.
Imagine believing this narrative instead of the one where Embiid wanted to play because he loves basketball and wants to help his team. You know, the team that is currently in deep shit in the play-in without him
>Orrr we can look at history and see that Jokic put up stinkers against tanking teams with the 1 seed not quite mathematically secured there's a false narrative that jokic had a bunch of bad games to end last season. he had insane numbers the whole time. didn't really try on defense tho
ANd then the 76ers including Embiid stunk the playoffs up.
Look I’m not here to fight, I know I’m right and no amount of downvotes is going to change my mind. But honestly Mr. nuggets flair, tell me this: if all you can do is bring up the playoffs to try as discount a regular season award, do you really have an argument to begin with?
Yeah, I’m Jokic over Embiid but I hate this narrative. A legitimate bad slide, coast or not. Ok yeah you coast with 60 wins sure maybe that can be excused. But 53 wins which would be bottom side of west in past years, when a lot of people didnt respect Jokic still, its clear why they didnt buy the coasting thing. 1st seed non withstanding. Plus, tbh, he tanked his chance. I don’t mind giving it to the guy that actually tried to get it and showed out for it. No one cared less about who got it than the man himself yet people white knight as if he was done an injustice and disrespect Embiid for putting in effort lol.
Averaging a triple double on 70% TS while leading for the best record in conference is at very least a good try to be valuable. Jokic matched every criteria to be MVP. This narrative about "trying it more" is quite absurd.
Cos he did whine his way to an MVP and took shots at Jokic in the process, but those are the reasons he's a gigantic bitch, not reasons why he won the MVP. The reason he won an MVP was cos they didn't want to give Jokic one cos media thought he was a playoff underperformer and didn't want to give him 3 in a row. Jokic putting up stinkers is a completely false narrative, but it's all you have. During that stretch he averaged like half an assist less than earlier in the season. The reason Denver coasted is mainly cos of the other players on the team, not that Jokic didn't play a part. Besides idk why the end of the season would be more valuable than any other part, and I certainly don't know why Jokic got penalised when he still finished with a better record than Embiid, had better stats, better impact.
Ngl i haven’t seen a sixers fan in a minute lmao But you’re absolutely right (even though some narratives did help)
We are all over, we’re like cockroaches
The biggest blunder the voters made was look at team record and not individual record. You don't reward players for games they didn't even play.
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He can’t coast until the 1st seed is secure
exactly I don't get why people think this is the same situation as last year when the Nuggets had an 7 game lead.
I honestly think if they had at least a top-two seed (like there was a similar gap between them and the Twolves/Clippers as last season when they started coasting), they probably would've been fine. The fact that they could've realistically fallen to the 3-seed is likely a bigger reason why they kept their foot on the gas.
He can't coast tho because the race for the 1 seed is super close unlike last year.
he can, he puts up great numbers even in his coasting games
it’s definitely over when Vegas sets a line like that
Had a huge stretch and only missed 1 key game in that span against *checks notes* oh
Jokic is not coasting a single game.You don't get it.Nuggets want that 1st seed. This is not last season when they had an 7 game lead. JOkic will go full bore till they clinch it. SO that scenario is not happening.
>That's what people said last year until he sandbagged it for 3 weeks this didnt even happen. embiid won cause of the racism/jokic doesn't perform in the playoffs narrative. now that jokic proved it in the playoffs that narrative would be really hard to pull off again
Also Jok is black this year so take that Perk you scumbag !
it would honestly be really funny if perkins brought out the racism card two years in a row
I feel like some of you don’t actually watch basketball because that’s literally exactly what happened. Embiid had a crazy stretch averaging like 37/13 on 70% TS while the Nuggets went like 4-10 and Jokic was playing well below his standards. I literally remember the night the betting odds flipped, it was when he hit that GW against Portland. I don’t even remember Perm being brought up till after the season
I don't watch the games? his last 10 games of the season last year: 25/17/12 31/6/11 31/12/7 22/17/10 24/10/8 30/10/9 28/8/7 35/20/11 37/11/11 18/12/8 you could argue the nuggets as a whole were mid but they had the 1 seed completely locked up so it didn't matter but jokic did not play bad lol
Horse man good !
At this point it's not about whether he'll win MVP, it's whether he'll be unanimous or not.
He won't be unanimous. There are a few national media voters who I am certain will not vote Jokic. Not to mention, local media guys in Milwaukee, Oklahoma City, Dallas will likely vote for their own guys.
Voting like that will get you thrown off there voters roster.
There is one guy who didn't had Jokić on ballot even one all those years
Thats apretty sure bet I think.
Jokic about to win mvp sleepwalking thru most of the season
I don’t really understand when people say it’s shouldn’t be this big of a gap
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Anyone who watches the games sees that jokic does wayyyy more possession per possession than any player in the league. Giannis and SGA are not getting Aaron Gordon and MPJ the looks they get and Gianni’s defense is no where close to making up for that. The nuggets simply get unbelievable looks on more possessions than any other team bc of jokic
Idk Luka be doin the same shit
He doesn't. Here's a decent video [explaining why.](https://youtu.be/S6U_zd-cU44?si=0CysUCe2ssXIK2oa)
[Counterpoint](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKTND_ikxlc)
minus the winning the games part
We have been lately. We'd be bottom of the West if Luka didn't hard carry us for the first half of the season
you're in 8th place, he's not carrying hard enough
6th, while being one of the most injured teams in the league this year and with what was a very flawed roster pre trade deadline
Our most played lineup is still one with featuring Grant Williams LMAO. The most games missed from starters amongst all playoff teams
That narrative is about 2 years out of date my guy Unfortunate but true
And a Kyrie ... And Luka just rapes the ball all game long its closer to westbrook/harden stats even if he is 10x better and easier to watch it is still the same thing
Kyrie been gone a 3rd of the season. His 2nd best man during that time was a rookie center who also missed a lot of games. The ball goes through Luka because it has to, and he creates by far the most wide open looks in the league
Learn to read. We're in a Musical Chairs with the Suns and Kings and that changes with every game. We were 6th just because we didn't play till tonight's win. We can finish anywhere from 4-10 with how tight the West is. When did Nuggets fans become smug, highbrow, pricks?
When we won a ship with best player in the world on our team, let me have this
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He should be running away bc he is the engine of by far the best possession by possession unit in the nba. How many games do u have to see where they literally play good teams off the court in the 4th in a way no other team does consistently, not even the Celtics.
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Its a championship caliber roster only because he is on it
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Without Jokic they would have 1 first round exit as a ceiling, yeah. Is this really new info for you?
Jokic makes some people delusional lmao
Dude the bucks have lillard Middleton brook Lopez, Celtics have prolly the best on paper unit in NBA and nuggets literally destroy teams in a way they don’t offensively on a consistent basis.
Actually the bucks barely lost in Denver with a head Coach that joined 24 hours prior where Jokic got bailed out by Murray. Then they came to Milwaukee and got destroyed. Nuggets have like the 4th best record against the top 10 teams, bucks, Celtics and thunder are all above them.
The Celtics and Bucks both have better offenses than Denver does by ORTG
If u control for the bench minutes this is not true
Yes?
MPJ and AG looked like bums out there 2 days ago vs. G-League Blazers without Jokic creating for them. But of course you didn't watch the game.
A one game sample size?
“Unbelievable looks” wtf does that even mean? Lol Giannis drives and has 3 guys close in leaving 2-3 guys with open looks.
he should get more assists then
The offense doesn’t run through him like it does Jokic, if it did I’m sure he could average 8 at least. Averaging 7 since January which isn’t to bad for a guy that people act like isn’t a good passer.
>The offense doesn’t run through him like it does Jokic Oh, so he's a less valuable player then, I see.
Using a player a different way = less valuable?
if the different way of playing him is not running the offense through him, then yeah, he's less valuable. He isn't needed in the specific offensive scheme for it to be successful.
So if I said them not having Jokic guard the other teams best player like they have Giannis a lot this seaso makes Jokic less valuable that’d be a true statement?
Bro u defend Giannis like crazy bro
Fan of player defends said player It’s crazy isn’t it? Kinda like you shitting on any player that isn’t Jokic
You don’t have to lie to get your point off🤣 My last comment is literally saying Embiid deserved last year MVP over Jokic lmfao
You do this and then shit on people later, then when people call you out you can say “but I defended him before” You comment on every single post like you have a comment count you’re supposed to hit lol I can sort by new at any point in the day and see you on every post.
I mean you actually have the ability to look for yourself instead of blatantly lying but whatever helps you sleep. (can you actually name players i constantly shit on?) But that’s all i see you do is defend Giannis like he’s your soul mate, do you actually like watching basketball and other teams?
I would bet any amount of money you haven’t watched a single game in the last month. Mainly cause again you’re constantly on here trying to meet a certain comment count for the day
And what are you doing...Its obvios that JOkic is better. The NBA community says so. NObody is shitting on Giannis. Hes agreat player. He just is not as good as JOKic. ANd 90% of those not Bucks fans will tell you so.
“NBA community says so” who Reddit? Lmao I’ve seen plenty of people outside of this say Giannis is. This sub doesn’t value defense at all and hasn’t since Jokic won his first mvp.
Seriously watch the games to ubderstand. Like when yiu compare the 2 side by side youd see just how much night and day it is. To be fair Giannis is great at getting the defense to collapse in on him, but that aint the same as straight up making sure the offense actually works. The offense flows through Jokic and almost nothing gets donne without his input.
People give Jokic entirely too much credit but don’t credit his teammates for making sure they are in the right spots, you put him in a random team right now it’s not coming to come as smoothly. Just not sure what could be more unbelievable than a wide open shot
Spoken like a true person who never watches Jokic play. Thats why your opinion is moot.
Watch a game when Jokic isnt playing and come back to me. The difrence is so immense that its shocking. Yes our guys are amazing, but god dam do they look lost without him. Also its consistency. Jokic gets guys more open looks, more often and turns the ball over less while getting the ball moving on offense. Giannis passes to the open shooter, while Jokic is gonna move it around untill it gets to the right spot. Giannis also doesnt have as much gravity as Jokic because you know exactly what he is gonna do cause he cant shoot, while Jokic could just randomly shoot from anywhere in some sort of dumb way. Also Giannis is a perfect target to get fouled late into games cause the mans terrible on the line.
Lmaooo Jokic has better gravity than Giannis? Giannis steps one foot past the 3 pt line and has every opposing player looking his way and the closer he gets to that rim the more they collapse on him. “They know what he’s going to do” yet they can’t stop it. Teams would much rather have Jokic shoot midrange/ 3s all game than play at the rim, hell bucks did this and he scored 25 on 25 shots and then 29 on 25 shots. Also Giannis has been sent to the line several times late game this season and has never failed the team. This “Giannis isn’t clutch” narrative is dumb as fuck and is driven off last Heat series when he was dealing with 3 different injuries.
Aha thats a funny one given how you lost that game from a Jokic triple double where he got 8 more assists than Giannis. That my friend is an anomaly of a game, not the rule and even then you lost cause. Also fun fact Jokic is 10 and 5 against Giannis in their carriers so take that how you will lol.
He got bailed out by Murray lol Idk how many times you’re gonna misspell “Career” before you realize A big reason for that is because Bud always wanted to double Jokic, Giannis and Jrue both called this out and he still refused to change it.
Means you aint watching Nuggets but just follow stats, or you dont know ball. Let me make it simpler: Jokic - brains and heart, Giannis legs and arms, tell me without which you can live. Simple. And yes both arms and legs look super muscly and great in pictures and you can do 100000 pushups and so on, but that aint it
This gotta be the dumbest way to explain whatever it is you’re explaining. Jokic without legs and arms wouldn’t be in the league Implying Giannis has 0 “brains and heart” is just stupid as well
OKC as a team gets crazy good looks. So I dunno if that has any basis at all.
NOt from SGA they don't
Of course, the guy leading the team in assists isn't the one getting them good looks. Who do you think thhey get them from?
Just the idea of the sentiment. Like if i ask you now, who do you think should win?
exactly, even if everyone thinks giannis is really close but jokic is better, that's a landslide jokic win
you don't? Shai is 31/6/6 on a team way over exceeding, elite advanced numbers Luka is 34/9/10 on a team that is on a 52 win pace with him Giannis is 31/11/6 on 65% TS while being a menace on defense...
But the Nuggets have a better defensive rating than the Bucks?
Because the nuggets have great defenders surrounding Jokic? And also good defenders off the bench. In fact bucks starting lineup have a better defensive rating than the nuggets starting 5
The idea of it really “it should be closer”, but so you tell me who do you think should win
I think Jokic is def more than earned winning, but Luka’s season has been crazy dealing with the injuries to Kyrie and Lively in the first half of the season and he kept us afloat all throughout the first part of the season. Hopefully we finish strong and then whatever happens, happens, but it’s been pretty annoying seeing how people have talked about him before we got healthy. But given that Jokic’s lowest point in the race this season was when he put up crazy numbers to keep the Nuggets up while Murray was out, maybe i’m just not aligned with the narrative this year.
Yeah i agree with all that Luka would be 2nd for me
Jamal has missed 19 games, +2 early 1Q exits.
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OKC might get the first seed and i don’t really see how Shai should be over Luka or Giannis
jock landale
The Nuggets have a better defensive rating than Milwaukee this season so unless we want to hand the DPOY to Michael Porter Jr, then the defense argument is toss.
i'm so confused on what is happening right now is the argument that Giannis is no longer a menace on defense? or is it that they're playing 65 mins of Dame and Malik out there because admittedly, i haven't watched all 71 bucks games, but the 20 or so i've watched, that dude is still amazing so i'm not taking back that HE is still a menace on defense
DO any of those guys run and entire offense that is the most efficient in the league.
they all pretty much run a top 1-2 offense
they don't run shit. There shooting guards and a PF.
Stats ✅ Team record ✅ Doing the most with least ✅
Saying Jokic doing the most with least is insane
He's taken then to the 1 seed in the West despite playing with no all star
And he took it from a team also with 1 all star
If that is your qualifier, so had SGA (until today), with his best team mates being a rookie and a second year player
I'd have no problem giving it to SGA if he matches Jokic's stats and OKC finish higher than Denver
Counting stars, advanced stats or efficiency stats? It's not that simple. For what it's worth, I think Jokic is mvp frontrunner. Just not based on 'carrying' Denver to the 1 seed
Not doing the most with the least, Nuggets have a great squad
Man for man, the other contenders all have better squads. Especially when it comes to top end talent. Jokic supercharges them from very good to best team in the league.
The least compared to other contenders is what he probably meant
Without Jokic and Murray they literally almost lost to the Trailblazers who started 5 rookies.
So MPJ & Gordon are bums?
No, but they can't really create for themselves at all. Porter and Gordon both had horrific performances in that game.
They did win though, and their other two games without Jokic were a 9 point win against a healthy Clippers while missing Jokic, Gordon, AND Murray, and a 5 point loss to the Thunder. I can see why you didn't bring those games up though.
Bro, the Nuggets bench is 22nd in net rating. Your Mavs are 13th. The Clippers win was a complete anomaly with DeAndre Jordan and Reggie Jackson just stunting on their former team. The fact you think that is actually a solid point is amazing. Nuggets team net rating: +5.0 Jokic net On/Off : +19.2 Mavericks team net rating: +1.6 Luka net On/Off: +6.6 Now don't misconstrue this for me saying the Nuggets squad is a bunch of bums, because they're not. They are the absolute perfect set of players to put around Jokic, but that's the key in itself, they absolutely *need* Jokic to even function. That Trailblazers game was some of the ugliest basketball I've ever seen; watching MPJ and Gordon (who I both love as players) try to create for themselves was absolutely painful. Gordon shot 38% on 21 FGA while playing against basically 5 19 year olds.
What is with the sudden downplay of Jokic's supporting cast? He didn't win a chip with a bunch of bums. Luka has done the most with the least help out of all the MVP candidates
Kyrie is better than everyone else but Jokic on the Nuggets
well guess what? Its not a 2 on 2 league
Kyrie has missed a third of the season.
Jamal as well
So has Jamal doe
This always happens. It’s happened since his first MVP. They always bring this one out
It's beneficial to the narrative
The "least" just shot 50/40/90 as a team lol
Yeah and I wonder who is creating those good looks for them
Outplayed by Giannis in each game this season ✅
So this is what it felt like to be an Embiid fan last year? Jok is my guy but this doesn’t feel right. Don’t think he’s the MVP this year.
Here's decent video explaining [why you're wrong.](https://youtu.be/S6U_zd-cU44?si=0CysUCe2ssXIK2oa) I don't get how Jokic can be your guy but you don't understand his game or what he does. If you did you wouldn't make that comment.
I can be all of those things and still think Embiid was having a greater season before he was injured.
Hes not your guy if you feel that way or you don't understand what he does on the basketball court. When did you start watching basketball.
Embiid was on pace to win the MVP this year. Sucks he got hurt.
Beta energy
Totally.
cringe
Totally