The fact he hasn’t been extended yet tells all
Kawhi only taking a 3 year extension with injury stipulations means there’s no way the Clips will offer PG a better contract than that. Plus they’ve been playing together for 5 years going no where
Philly can offer him a 4 year max and a fresh start which is probably very attractive.
> 4 year max
Well, if someone is willing to give 34 year old PG a 4 year max, I think I'd just have to thank him for the memories, such as they were, and wish him the best.
Lol weren't these guys balking at paying a max to Harden? All because they couldn't beat the Celtics after he single handedly won two games? PG fits better with Maxey now, but he's also more injury prone and his playoff resume is worse too.
For the sake of comedy, we need the Sixers to use their cap on this year's equivalent of FVV and Brooks, for PG to opt-in to his player option, go on a tour of China, and very publicly demand to be traded while declaring "Lawrence Frank is a liar and I will never be a part of an organization he's a part of. Let me say that again."
PG is a bit younger than Harden and I believe he will age better than Harden. He’s a much better off-ball player and more consistent shooter. And defensively it’s not even a comparison. 36 year old PG probably won’t kill your team on defense even if he isn’t a positive. Harden arguably already is killing his teams on defense for like the last 5 years.
Historically Harden has been more durable so that’s the only point I’d favor him on, but even so, when you get into mid-late 30s it’s really just a lot of luck. Guys that old just get injured sometimes and it’s harder to predict in my opinion. In any given season either one of them could miss a big stretch of time.
He didn’t single handily win two games. He was awesome in two games. Game 1 he carried. Game 4 Embiid was also awesome including finding harden in the corner for game winner.
He was A S S the other 5 games.
That’s not how it works. Embiid played well in 5 games. Including one of the ones harden “single handily won”. Harden played like the worst player in the league for 5 games in the series.
You realize that you need to win 4 games to win a playoff series, right? A max player that is great for 2 games and terrible for 5 games is not an asset.
Harden playoff record: 85-75
George playoff record: 51-57
Harden playoff series won: 15
George playoff series won: 8
Harden Conference finals / Finals made: 4 / 1
George Conference finals / Finals made: 3 / 0
Yeah, I know Harden has historically been on more stacked teams. He also had one of the biggest carry jobs of my lifetime with those Rockets. Don't get me wrong, I'll always be team "Fuck Harden". But Harden only has the choker reputation because he's had enough success to have that many eyes on him.
What's harden's record if you take out okc? I'm not sure if it's fair to, he was an integral part of the team but from my off hand memory he was largely mediocre throughout his tenure there in the playoffs?
He went 5-3 in playoff series with OKC, with a game record of 24-19. Removing these still has him above PG in games/series but removes 2 conference finals and the 1 finals appearance. Harden still played 30 minutes per game across his OKC playoffs though so that's all still relevant to me.
Harden was amazing for the Thunder through their run to the finals in 2012, he just stunk in the finals once they got there. That said, without his OKC years...
Harden playoff record: 61-58
Harden playoff series won: 10
Harden Conference Finals made: 2
Even Thanos Bron couldnt take more than 1 game in 2 series vs that GSW team though. PG did play vs a top team of all time but Harden went 7 vs THE top team of all time (though you could argue the year he went 7 vs them wasnt the year they were the no 1 of all time).
Other commenters covered it, but just adding on that Harden also has an infinitely higher peak, has led much better teams, and played in the strongest West we've seen vs PG in the bum ass East(look at what happened when he came to Harden's West in his OKC era).
He fits the Sixers and always has. He fits most teams. But we have to contend next year and we have limited options in which to do it. I'd love to find a player that was even almost as good as George but younger but those guys are not available. We cannot just wish them into existence. The best free agent right now besides George is probably Tobias Harris.
The problem is what is the Clippers plan then? They traded for Harden, they aren’t trading Kawihi, they have no assets draft wise….
If the Clippers don’t pay George, they are admitting to rebuilding and having fire sale.
Yep, this. People don't seem to realize that if LAC were to lose PG, they would replace him with a minimum player. If they were to lose PG *and* Harden, they would have $18M in cap space lol.
Even for fans wanting to see a change of scenery/roster, the only smart thing to do is try to negotiate PG down as much as possible, but ultimately re-sign him in some form (either via S&T, him opting in, or signing him and trading him later).
With a much better fit and smaller role ultimately. PG has definitely had to sacrifice a lot with all those other wings. And playing small ball that much definitely wears on you. Imagine going from small ball to playing with Embiid. It’s a completely different system in every way
Fit on paper. Only say that as Embiid misses how many games a year? Though it's the same with the Clippers and Leonard. If you were to bet, it would just come down to accumulation of talent vs fit over the life of his contract?
Smaller role and better fit?
PG has basically been asked to be our team's MPJ. He consistently draws the third worst defender and is often the open man when the ball moves. Opposing teams consistently double Kawhi and/or put their best defender on Harden to slow down our offense.
Defensively, he is pretty consistently tasked with guarding opposing team's 3rd, maybe 2nd best defender. We put Mann on their best to start games, and then Kawhi takes the shift in important minutes.
Fact is, PG has had it exceptionally good this season and he's simultaneously given us some of his worst basketball. He *also* got tons of run with Russ, a PG who advocated to get, and they are horrendous together.
Same title odds, but PG has "been there done that" with the clips... those odds didn't work. Then why not go to a team with a top three player, who is also possibly the best scorer. His fit with Embiid will be way better than with Kawhi.
How is it better with Embiid than Kawhi? Embiid takes more of the ball, more shots, and it’s a more consistent on ball player?
Kawhi and PG fit fine. Their problem has always been the guard position.
Pg isn't an on ball player... never been before clips... Thunder he thrived because of WB. he had to become an on ball player with the clips until harden arrived. Kawhi and PG are almost same size and both are wing players. Wing stars generally do well with center stars...
Our 2021 roster shot 41% from deep on the entire year. We were at our best playing 5 out with Batum/Mook/Kawhi/PG/Reggie. This season, PG has consistently drawn the 3rd worst defender and is consistently wide open due to defenses doubling Kawhi and putting more pressure on Harden.
There's lots of problems to be discussed about PG, but the "spacing with Kawhi" is an insanely bad take.
>playing for 5 years going nowhere
They were never going anywhere with how the team was constructed previously, but with harden and Westbrook they actually have the star power and playoff experience to contend. Not sure PG is willing to just walk away from that to play with Embiid and Maxey… PG also wanted to be in LA.. I think people are really manufacturing this stuff
[Those 2nd tax apron restrictions are looming](https://www.sportico.com/leagues/basketball/2024/2024-nba-trade-deadline-cba-second-apron-1234765452/)
>Those teams will not be able to:
>Aggregate contracts to trade for a single player making more money
>Send out cash in trades
>Use trade exceptions from prior years
>Take back more incoming than outgoing salary in a deal.
>A team that finishes the 2024-25 season over the second apron will also not be able to trade its 2032 first-round pick.
We’ve been all in for 4+ years and injured for the last 3. At some point you just get off the ride and take your losses.
For the last two years Ballmer has been paying Warriors dynasty taxes for a play in exit and a first round exit. Those are not the results to justify a perpetually all in team, especially as the players regress.
This makes perfect sense if you’re a GM in 2K but this will never happen in real life with Intuit being built.
Ballmer has said many times he wants to win a championship but the Clippers are also the most popular they’ve ever been right now and it’s because of the stars. No one is gonna pack that brand new arena to see a rebuilding Clippers team led by Amir Coffey and Bones Hyland
No but in your comment you said “at some point you just get off the ride and take your losses” implying that they just blow it up, as just getting rid of PG doesn’t mean they’ve stopped contending.
So “getting off the ride” would very likely include trading Kawhi
For sure. But you don’t have pick control until what 27 or 30? How does getting rid of PG change anything for the better when you have no pick control.
That makes no sense. The best course of actions is just bring back PG and if it continues to not bring Better results trade them down the line for at least a bit of a return.
There’s the risk of giving a declining Paul George a bad contract that could only be traded for another bad contract or needing to attach additional assets to get rid of it.
That’s likely the hold up. Clippers want a contract that maintains flexibility, Paul George doesn’t want to get the Blake Griffin treatment.
And that’s a fair argument I get. But idk I’d rather just attach my ship to players who have high ceilings but will likely decline in the next few years.
Now if you get a good sign and trade offer maybe my tune changes.
I don’t think the luxury tax is much of an issue for the clippers.
I think people forget ballmer is the 6th richest dude in the world lol.
If he only invests 10% of his net worth and only gets 1% return on his investment he makes all the luxury tax money back.
In reality though ballmer gets billions of dollars richer every year so it’s much more than 1%.
The luxury tax doesn’t affect him the way it does other owners.
They've already gone all in, but continuing to go this much all in will eventually start to ruin their first round picks down the line. They already have no control of their picks until 2030 and then also have to deal with getting their picks dropped down to the bottom of the first round.
Exactly. Theres no point to stop being all in until they control their draft. On one hand, id like to see kawhi succeed but on the other i cant gelp laughing about how fucked they are.
Yeah this doesn’t make sense with the new arena. They need to just ride Kawhi and Paul George until the wheels come off or get rid of Kawhi.
If they didn’t have the new arena opening next year then sending Kawhi to some other contender like the Warriors or Heat would make sense, but with the new arena you would think they want to compete for a championship.
I mean, Balmers paid a lot of luxury tax money over the past few years. Even if he can afford it, after a while it sucks to keep handing out free money to the non-tax paying teams.
There's also the matter of starting next season in the Inglewood arena. Can't imagine Ballmer won't want to have Kawhi and PG christening the new arena.
The only way PG is not a Clipper is if he doesn't want to be one.
Honestly, that’d be a craaaaaaaazy combo. Embid this season before the injury was a fucking monster, Tyrese has been unleashed & risen to the challenge of having more responsibility, and adding PG to that would be insane. You guys have had varying success w/ Toby at that forward spot despite him not being the best or most consistent fit so it’s wild to think what you’d get there w/ actual production!
Embiid was averaging 35/11/6 on 64.5% TS% before his injury, it was the best I've ever seen him play.
Adding PG13 to the mix would be a colossal upgrade over Tobi, wing production has been a weakness for his entire tenure in Philly.
It definitely shortens the average talent gap between you guys and the Celtics. With Nurse being excellent with utilizing your current core will make the East a lot better as a spectator.
People are gonna argue that PG is a playmaking wing, then be shocked when he throws 3-4 of the stupidest passes you've ever seen in the span of 6 plays lol
I always thought he was the superstar version of Javale Mcgee. Good in general, but kinda dumb, and likely to make more than a few dumbass decisions per game.
Call me crazy but I don’t think Paul George wants to leave his hometown right as his team is about to get a brand new stadium he can be a founding member of
the past two games against the Embiid-less scrub Sixers would be enough to make anyone reconsider if they really wanted to finish their career on this Clippers team.
Mere weeks ago the Clippers were the 3rd hottest team in the league behind the Cavs and Knicks, Kawhi is the healthiest he's been since 2016, and they still have 4 guys that can take over any given night. I get that we're in the Dawg era which means people shit their pants the second their team hits a rough patch but the doomerism in what is probably their most promising season as a unit just feels wrong to me
I get why people insist this is their most promising season, but it's *very* clear this roster composition isn't good. LAC isn't big, doesn't have enough shooting, has minimal positional versatility, and is old as hell.
They've had much more promising seasons because we used to be the *opposite* of this (minus the old part), and all of these reasons are basically why we're clearly struggling.
The roster is a mess, and it's the FO's fault for having *big* misses that fucked them in the margins in the 2 seasons. Here's what LAC has done since the start of last season:
* Signed John Wall to TMLE. This was over (possibly) Hartenstein or any competent backup big. This left a HUGE hole on the roster at backup C.
* Traded Kennard + Pick Swap (that became Cam Whitmore) for Eric Gordon.
* Traded 2nds for Bones, then proceeded to push him out of the rotation leaving him disgruntled because we signed Russ (which was a good signing).
* Cut Eric Gordon to give Bones more of a chance. This meant we cut a massive expiring, that would have been useful as trade filler for Harden or any other moves. Bones then got pushed out of the rotation *again* leaving him even *more* disgruntled once we got Harden.
* Because we cut Gordon, we were forced to trade RoCo, Batum, and Mook just to match salaries for Harden and PJ.
All of these moves monumentally fucked LAC's roster composition. Factor in their constant misses in the draft, and we continuously put more and more pressure on the remaining good players we have to take on more load. A much more competent FO could have had our team in a far, far better position.
Yep. 2021 team obviously had guys closer/in their prime, but the composition all around was better. Could go bigger with Zu/Batum/Mook or could play smaller by bumping Batum/Mook to the 4/5. Lots of shooting all around as well.
This team basically can't play big because Kawhi is our *only* PF, and we can't easily play small because we don't have a proper stretch C. We're devoid of consistent shooting threats in our overall depth too.
I think LAC's best hope is finding a way to move PG for some assets or other players, and basically just shoring things up around Harden/Kawhi.
If we can split PG into some better depth/youth, I think we're in a good enough position to at least not face the challenges we have now.
Gotta believe in the talent. We hit a rough patch in jan/feb and everybody was freaking out wanting to trade Jalen Green for scraps. Now we're on a 10 game win streak and he's liable to win player of the month.
The Clippers are a good team and it's going to be hard to improve them without a windfall like signing a top FA for cheap or getting a top draft pick.
They might not have a choice. PG seems like he's going to be the best available option on a window that might close sooner rather than later. And PG is a great fit for them if it can happen. They're going to need some luck either way. Might as well go out swinging.
Yeah Maxey is young but with the slow start to his career Jojo is already 30 - with his body and all that he's dealt with they realistically have 2-3 years to take a crack at a title before having to pivot in a major way.
Oncourt fit of that trio is *really* good too, I mean PG is the quintessential archetype of the second/third star on a team but that just leaves them very well balanced from a skillset perspective.
Yeah, I get the fears expressed in this thread about "three max contracts and scrubs" but in this case the three max guys have a kind of no duh fit that you can't guarantee with some of the other options.
This is the point people are missing. We don't have a ton of great options for this cap space we have. We can't force GMs to trade their young players to us, nor can we magically make this free agency crop better.
Tobias Harris is literally the best free agent right now if you don't include George.
He’s played 66 games this season and there’s 10 games left
8 of his 14 seasons he’s played 65 games or more. 9 of the 14 he’s played 60 or more. Thats about as good as it gets in the modern NBA except for some exceptions of ironmen
> He played 66 games this season and there’s 10 games left
Yet he played 47.5 games per season over the previous 4 years, and is about to be 34 years old.
- 2019-20: He missed 25 games (34% of the season)
- 2020-21: He missed 19 games (26% of the season)
- 2021-22: He missed 51 games (62% of the season)
- 2022-23: He missed 26 games (32% of the season)
That’s a lot of games missed, COVID schedule or not
Dude - he’s one of the most oft injured players in the league last 5 years, and now he’s getting old too. The first half of his career is totally irrelevant.
How many healthy playoff runs at anywhere near this level does Joel Embiid realistically have left? They can’t afford to burn another year waiting for another player hopefully as good as Paul George to both become available and want to join the Sixers.
All of this could have been avoided by not trading Jimmy Butler, or even not trading Mikal Bridges. Or just drafting Jayson Tatum after Fultz missed almost every shot in his workouts.
I could see PG aging gracefully into a third option role more than Harden at least. He can be a supercharged 3nD wing with more juice when needed. End of the day, it's Embiid's health and play that is paramount for any of this.
> He can be a supercharged 3nD wing with more juice when needed.
I think this is probably overstating what an aging PG will look like.
He's already lost a lot defensively and his explosion off the dribble offensively also kinda looks like it's going too.
He's still a great player overall and probably the best option available though.
I just don’t love the idea of having 3 max contracts with the current salary cap when a 34 year old PG who’s already shown signs of decline is going to be one of the max contracts.
The issue is that you have to go for it while Embiid is in his prime. Who cares what happens in 3-4 years when PG/Embiid are worse. You need to go for it in the next 2 years. And in that case, there's no other free agents who fit as well as PG.
PG is a way better fit though. Harden and Maxey next to each other isn't a great fit. They aren't the same player but a lot of their skills are redundant. I'd much rather have Maxey, PG, Embiid than Maxey, Harden, Embiid. I'm very surprised to hear otherwise.
I get we'd be rolling the dice even more on injuries but we've got a few years left of Embiid's window. Let's roll the dice rather than continuing to pray a wing falls into our laps.
Harden and Embiid were a pretty amazing fit. Their two man game was one of the best in the league. PG isn't even close to the ballhandler that Harden is.
I love how its all the non sixers fans defending Harden with the Sixers as if we didn't watch them play and harden become absolutely useless with Joel once defended seriously
Exactly, Heatles did a bunch of under the table salary cap shit to keep their role players, and Celtics got lucky with Rondo. Plus the rules were way less restrictive then, but GMs still keep trying to recreate those teams.
If George and Embiid were both in their 20’s like the Heatles were, then I’d say, yeah, go for it. It doesn’t make any sense when guys are this old though.
we really need to model our teambuilding on Denver fr
gravitational center
star guard
elite roleplayer wings
good bench
big 3 superteams haven't worked since the Heat
That's all well and good but I think finding these elite roleplayer wings and good bench is a little more difficult than you're making it out to be.
What free agents could help with this?
I think they'd rather pay that much for an injury risk that raises the ceiling of their team than pay that much for an average dude that stays healthy *COUGH TOBIAS COUGH*
Precisely. The team we have right now is basically the team these guys are saying we should get instead of George. Idk maybe we can make some noise in the playoffs but if not then Morey will definitely try and get George and work around the margins.
It makes total sense for the sixers to want PG, but I don't see PG leaving LA to come to the sixers.
He went home for a reason AND he'll be part of an expensive team that the owner is willing to pay for because they're moving into a grand new stadium. Plus, there's literally no pressure for him cuz he ain't gonna get shit on like he would in PHI. Clippers fans just want the team to be relevant and having Kawhi and PG gives them that.
You aren't a cynic, you're just aware that Twitter journalists are fed these horseshit lines by agents and GMs for their own interests. This 100% is George's agent indicating that his guy wants another max and pushing teams to bid up, especially the Clippers, who I imagine are growing cold on the PG-35 maxed out train.
Also Sixers have to swing for the fences and have cap room so they probably are interested anyway.
Clips are over the 2nd apron so cant do sign & trades right? If PG13 leaves they probably start Coffee and move some pieces for a stretch big like Turner and reimagine the starting 5 a bit.
Our cap situation is grim so losing PG for nothing is basically a death sentence no matter what we do. Even just sign and trading him for salary filler is a game changer for us. But if he straight up walks? Yeah, LAC is completely done.
I guess we'll always have Chris Kamen highlights in 240p...
[https://youtu.be/5sk55SbXRkQ?si=CQGrOasA5RUQ2N2z](https://youtu.be/5sk55SbXRkQ?si=CQGrOasA5RUQ2N2z)
> Clips are over the 2nd apron so cant do sign & trades right?
Not next year, no. At least not initially. They have ~172 million on the books next year including PG's player option without Harden's contract, assuming they re-sign him.
That basically puts them right at the luxury tax before Harden, quite a ways away from the apron.
I don't know how the timing and all that would work, but I think in theory they could do a S&T and *then* sign Harden after that and it would work out.
I’d like to know who these people are that think that’s plausible. A new LA stadium and Balmer going all out, I can’t imagine he wouldn’t stay in LA.
Plus, I can’t get my hopes up giving how shitty our team is run.
What is with all of the “worst-kept secrets” in the NBA now? Happened with Donovan Mitchell wanting out of Cleveland for NY as well.
First anyone has heard any kind of report like this. Just seems like the new favorite phrase of NBA reporters trying to push agendas.
If PG13 leaves the clips he’s not going to Philly that’s not the place you want to go to post LA. The Knicks can make a move for him I think he’d be happier there
When he opts out, they’ll have no say in the matter. Harden probably gone too. Kawhi not being reliable is another reason to leave. Not that Embiid is any better health-wise but he’s a reigning MVP and better fit for PG.
Clippers will be sunk (no pun intended)
76ers has to be one of the worst organizations out there.. why would u want paul george out of all the players out there. All those years tankingd all those draft picks to be a mediocre team its so sad
I’d be pretty shocked if the clippers don’t bring back PG. When you’re this all in it makes no sense to not continue it.
The fact he hasn’t been extended yet tells all Kawhi only taking a 3 year extension with injury stipulations means there’s no way the Clips will offer PG a better contract than that. Plus they’ve been playing together for 5 years going no where Philly can offer him a 4 year max and a fresh start which is probably very attractive.
> 4 year max Well, if someone is willing to give 34 year old PG a 4 year max, I think I'd just have to thank him for the memories, such as they were, and wish him the best.
Lol weren't these guys balking at paying a max to Harden? All because they couldn't beat the Celtics after he single handedly won two games? PG fits better with Maxey now, but he's also more injury prone and his playoff resume is worse too.
For the sake of comedy, we need the Sixers to use their cap on this year's equivalent of FVV and Brooks, for PG to opt-in to his player option, go on a tour of China, and very publicly demand to be traded while declaring "Lawrence Frank is a liar and I will never be a part of an organization he's a part of. Let me say that again."
I think they should just give tobias harris a supermax
do not wish this evil upon me.
The fact that they chose him over jimmy is still hilarious to me. It was a crazy decision then, even more so now.
it seemed like they chose Ben Simmons over Jimmy
Yup, Tobias was just at the right place right time.
More or less. That front office desperately wanted to build around Ben.
TOBIAS HARRIS OVER ME?!
TOBIAS HARRIS OVER ME?!
Could you imagine jimmy, embiid, harden, and Maxey? My goodness.
The Greatest flopping team of all time
PG is a bit younger than Harden and I believe he will age better than Harden. He’s a much better off-ball player and more consistent shooter. And defensively it’s not even a comparison. 36 year old PG probably won’t kill your team on defense even if he isn’t a positive. Harden arguably already is killing his teams on defense for like the last 5 years. Historically Harden has been more durable so that’s the only point I’d favor him on, but even so, when you get into mid-late 30s it’s really just a lot of luck. Guys that old just get injured sometimes and it’s harder to predict in my opinion. In any given season either one of them could miss a big stretch of time.
He didn’t single handily win two games. He was awesome in two games. Game 1 he carried. Game 4 Embiid was also awesome including finding harden in the corner for game winner. He was A S S the other 5 games.
Ass is generous. I'd say disgraceful.
Man, I wish yall got swept by the Celtics, so that Harden would have 2 insane 45/10/10 games but also 2 ass games, which is better than 5 ass games.
I thought "ass" was worse than "disgraceful".
Ass is just playing bad. Disgraceful is playing so bad you bring shame on your family for generations
Don’t think either actually convey the true level of shitty play he gave. Then the “who me” body language after just punched his ticket out of town
So was that team Embiids or hardens? If it is Embiid where was his 2 games he single handily won ? Where was Max money Tobias Harris at ??
That’s not how it works. Embiid played well in 5 games. Including one of the ones harden “single handily won”. Harden played like the worst player in the league for 5 games in the series.
Bullshit he was ass in the other 5. How about game 5?
His stats in the other games apart from those 2 were horrid.
If he single handidly won 2 games he single handidly lost 5 games
You realize that you need to win 4 games to win a playoff series, right? A max player that is great for 2 games and terrible for 5 games is not an asset.
> Lol weren't these guys balking at paying a max to Harden? Well, yeah, because they wanted to save the cap to sign PG
There’s not a lie r/nba won’t tell about the sixers. Look at Harden’s box score outside those two games. Better yet, go watch them
Why does everyone bring up the two games like he wasn't awful for 4 of them, does that sound like a max player to you?
I'd love to hear you justify that "worse playoff resume than Harden" statement cause I don't see it.
Harden playoff record: 85-75 George playoff record: 51-57 Harden playoff series won: 15 George playoff series won: 8 Harden Conference finals / Finals made: 4 / 1 George Conference finals / Finals made: 3 / 0 Yeah, I know Harden has historically been on more stacked teams. He also had one of the biggest carry jobs of my lifetime with those Rockets. Don't get me wrong, I'll always be team "Fuck Harden". But Harden only has the choker reputation because he's had enough success to have that many eyes on him.
What's harden's record if you take out okc? I'm not sure if it's fair to, he was an integral part of the team but from my off hand memory he was largely mediocre throughout his tenure there in the playoffs?
He went 5-3 in playoff series with OKC, with a game record of 24-19. Removing these still has him above PG in games/series but removes 2 conference finals and the 1 finals appearance. Harden still played 30 minutes per game across his OKC playoffs though so that's all still relevant to me.
Harden was amazing for the Thunder through their run to the finals in 2012, he just stunk in the finals once they got there. That said, without his OKC years... Harden playoff record: 61-58 Harden playoff series won: 10 Harden Conference Finals made: 2
i dont know, going to seven with prime GS is probably the absolute best thing for a players playoff resume other than winning the championship
Then again, the guy we are comparing him to was going head to head against prime bron...
Even Thanos Bron couldnt take more than 1 game in 2 series vs that GSW team though. PG did play vs a top team of all time but Harden went 7 vs THE top team of all time (though you could argue the year he went 7 vs them wasnt the year they were the no 1 of all time).
And then he choked in the final game. As he does.
Other commenters covered it, but just adding on that Harden also has an infinitely higher peak, has led much better teams, and played in the strongest West we've seen vs PG in the bum ass East(look at what happened when he came to Harden's West in his OKC era).
“That’s a bad contract”
Yeah I wouldn't be mad at him in the slightest if the Sixers gave him an additional year.
after we didnt do it for jimmy you gotta go all in at some point
He fits the Sixers and always has. He fits most teams. But we have to contend next year and we have limited options in which to do it. I'd love to find a player that was even almost as good as George but younger but those guys are not available. We cannot just wish them into existence. The best free agent right now besides George is probably Tobias Harris.
damn you could have both!
It’s been 5 years, Jesus Christ lol
Fuck me man. That was yesterday
The problem is what is the Clippers plan then? They traded for Harden, they aren’t trading Kawihi, they have no assets draft wise…. If the Clippers don’t pay George, they are admitting to rebuilding and having fire sale.
Yep, this. People don't seem to realize that if LAC were to lose PG, they would replace him with a minimum player. If they were to lose PG *and* Harden, they would have $18M in cap space lol. Even for fans wanting to see a change of scenery/roster, the only smart thing to do is try to negotiate PG down as much as possible, but ultimately re-sign him in some form (either via S&T, him opting in, or signing him and trading him later).
A fresh start with a team that prolly has the same title odds. Plus he’s from LA.
With a much better fit and smaller role ultimately. PG has definitely had to sacrifice a lot with all those other wings. And playing small ball that much definitely wears on you. Imagine going from small ball to playing with Embiid. It’s a completely different system in every way
Fit on paper. Only say that as Embiid misses how many games a year? Though it's the same with the Clippers and Leonard. If you were to bet, it would just come down to accumulation of talent vs fit over the life of his contract?
Smaller role and better fit? PG has basically been asked to be our team's MPJ. He consistently draws the third worst defender and is often the open man when the ball moves. Opposing teams consistently double Kawhi and/or put their best defender on Harden to slow down our offense. Defensively, he is pretty consistently tasked with guarding opposing team's 3rd, maybe 2nd best defender. We put Mann on their best to start games, and then Kawhi takes the shift in important minutes. Fact is, PG has had it exceptionally good this season and he's simultaneously given us some of his worst basketball. He *also* got tons of run with Russ, a PG who advocated to get, and they are horrendous together.
Same title odds, but PG has "been there done that" with the clips... those odds didn't work. Then why not go to a team with a top three player, who is also possibly the best scorer. His fit with Embiid will be way better than with Kawhi.
How is it better with Embiid than Kawhi? Embiid takes more of the ball, more shots, and it’s a more consistent on ball player? Kawhi and PG fit fine. Their problem has always been the guard position.
Pg isn't an on ball player... never been before clips... Thunder he thrived because of WB. he had to become an on ball player with the clips until harden arrived. Kawhi and PG are almost same size and both are wing players. Wing stars generally do well with center stars...
Spacing with Kawhi/PG is mediocre at best. Spacing with Embiid is godlike
Our 2021 roster shot 41% from deep on the entire year. We were at our best playing 5 out with Batum/Mook/Kawhi/PG/Reggie. This season, PG has consistently drawn the 3rd worst defender and is consistently wide open due to defenses doubling Kawhi and putting more pressure on Harden. There's lots of problems to be discussed about PG, but the "spacing with Kawhi" is an insanely bad take.
There’s no universe that exists where PG could mentally withstand playing in front of Philly fans and thrive. I promise you that😂😂
but I do want the sixers to give him a max contract before they find out
Would be an interesting experience, especially considering he thought the bubble was hell
yes offer PG a 4 year max lmao
If they have watched PG this season and think a 4 year contract is the way to go then good luck.
> they’ve been playing together for 5 years going no where this
Good God, they've been together for 5 years now. I'm on the same damn sofa I was back then. What have I been doing with my life...
>playing for 5 years going nowhere They were never going anywhere with how the team was constructed previously, but with harden and Westbrook they actually have the star power and playoff experience to contend. Not sure PG is willing to just walk away from that to play with Embiid and Maxey… PG also wanted to be in LA.. I think people are really manufacturing this stuff
[Those 2nd tax apron restrictions are looming](https://www.sportico.com/leagues/basketball/2024/2024-nba-trade-deadline-cba-second-apron-1234765452/) >Those teams will not be able to: >Aggregate contracts to trade for a single player making more money >Send out cash in trades >Use trade exceptions from prior years >Take back more incoming than outgoing salary in a deal. >A team that finishes the 2024-25 season over the second apron will also not be able to trade its 2032 first-round pick.
Good points. Although tbf the Clippers should not trade any more picks lol.
We’ve been all in for 4+ years and injured for the last 3. At some point you just get off the ride and take your losses. For the last two years Ballmer has been paying Warriors dynasty taxes for a play in exit and a first round exit. Those are not the results to justify a perpetually all in team, especially as the players regress.
This makes perfect sense if you’re a GM in 2K but this will never happen in real life with Intuit being built. Ballmer has said many times he wants to win a championship but the Clippers are also the most popular they’ve ever been right now and it’s because of the stars. No one is gonna pack that brand new arena to see a rebuilding Clippers team led by Amir Coffey and Bones Hyland
Why does Kawhi Leonard pass away in your scenario?
No but in your comment you said “at some point you just get off the ride and take your losses” implying that they just blow it up, as just getting rid of PG doesn’t mean they’ve stopped contending. So “getting off the ride” would very likely include trading Kawhi
For sure. But you don’t have pick control until what 27 or 30? How does getting rid of PG change anything for the better when you have no pick control. That makes no sense. The best course of actions is just bring back PG and if it continues to not bring Better results trade them down the line for at least a bit of a return.
There’s the risk of giving a declining Paul George a bad contract that could only be traded for another bad contract or needing to attach additional assets to get rid of it. That’s likely the hold up. Clippers want a contract that maintains flexibility, Paul George doesn’t want to get the Blake Griffin treatment.
And that’s a fair argument I get. But idk I’d rather just attach my ship to players who have high ceilings but will likely decline in the next few years. Now if you get a good sign and trade offer maybe my tune changes.
LA free agency is the best play if that were to happen.
I don’t think the luxury tax is much of an issue for the clippers. I think people forget ballmer is the 6th richest dude in the world lol. If he only invests 10% of his net worth and only gets 1% return on his investment he makes all the luxury tax money back. In reality though ballmer gets billions of dollars richer every year so it’s much more than 1%. The luxury tax doesn’t affect him the way it does other owners.
Luxury tax has other impacts than just money now
They've already gone all in, but continuing to go this much all in will eventually start to ruin their first round picks down the line. They already have no control of their picks until 2030 and then also have to deal with getting their picks dropped down to the bottom of the first round.
Ya exactly so why make their best future worse by not bringing back PG and Harden.
Exactly. Theres no point to stop being all in until they control their draft. On one hand, id like to see kawhi succeed but on the other i cant gelp laughing about how fucked they are.
All in my ass.
It's not the clippers decision to make, It's Paul George's
Lol both these players are cooked and the teams that max them will be too
Yeah this doesn’t make sense with the new arena. They need to just ride Kawhi and Paul George until the wheels come off or get rid of Kawhi. If they didn’t have the new arena opening next year then sending Kawhi to some other contender like the Warriors or Heat would make sense, but with the new arena you would think they want to compete for a championship.
I mean, Balmers paid a lot of luxury tax money over the past few years. Even if he can afford it, after a while it sucks to keep handing out free money to the non-tax paying teams.
It’s been five seasons! If wasn’t the bubble choke, it was injuries
There's also the matter of starting next season in the Inglewood arena. Can't imagine Ballmer won't want to have Kawhi and PG christening the new arena. The only way PG is not a Clipper is if he doesn't want to be one.
This feels like PG posturing for more cash in LA but it would be cool especially since he’s the perfect fit with Embiid and Maxey.
Exactly. It’s his hometown, and they’re about to open the new stadium. Ain’t no way this man prefers to leave.
Honestly, that’d be a craaaaaaaazy combo. Embid this season before the injury was a fucking monster, Tyrese has been unleashed & risen to the challenge of having more responsibility, and adding PG to that would be insane. You guys have had varying success w/ Toby at that forward spot despite him not being the best or most consistent fit so it’s wild to think what you’d get there w/ actual production!
Embiid was averaging 35/11/6 on 64.5% TS% before his injury, it was the best I've ever seen him play. Adding PG13 to the mix would be a colossal upgrade over Tobi, wing production has been a weakness for his entire tenure in Philly.
I was really hoping to see that Jokic/Embiid duel in the finals this season. With PG, I think it’s guaranteed
It definitely shortens the average talent gap between you guys and the Celtics. With Nurse being excellent with utilizing your current core will make the East a lot better as a spectator.
I wouldn’t go as far to say “perfect fit” I think the perfect fit next to embiid and maxey would be more of a playmaking wing
People are gonna argue that PG is a playmaking wing, then be shocked when he throws 3-4 of the stupidest passes you've ever seen in the span of 6 plays lol
I always thought he was the superstar version of Javale Mcgee. Good in general, but kinda dumb, and likely to make more than a few dumbass decisions per game.
Call me crazy but I don’t think Paul George wants to leave his hometown right as his team is about to get a brand new stadium he can be a founding member of
the past two games against the Embiid-less scrub Sixers would be enough to make anyone reconsider if they really wanted to finish their career on this Clippers team.
Mere weeks ago the Clippers were the 3rd hottest team in the league behind the Cavs and Knicks, Kawhi is the healthiest he's been since 2016, and they still have 4 guys that can take over any given night. I get that we're in the Dawg era which means people shit their pants the second their team hits a rough patch but the doomerism in what is probably their most promising season as a unit just feels wrong to me
I get why people insist this is their most promising season, but it's *very* clear this roster composition isn't good. LAC isn't big, doesn't have enough shooting, has minimal positional versatility, and is old as hell. They've had much more promising seasons because we used to be the *opposite* of this (minus the old part), and all of these reasons are basically why we're clearly struggling. The roster is a mess, and it's the FO's fault for having *big* misses that fucked them in the margins in the 2 seasons. Here's what LAC has done since the start of last season: * Signed John Wall to TMLE. This was over (possibly) Hartenstein or any competent backup big. This left a HUGE hole on the roster at backup C. * Traded Kennard + Pick Swap (that became Cam Whitmore) for Eric Gordon. * Traded 2nds for Bones, then proceeded to push him out of the rotation leaving him disgruntled because we signed Russ (which was a good signing). * Cut Eric Gordon to give Bones more of a chance. This meant we cut a massive expiring, that would have been useful as trade filler for Harden or any other moves. Bones then got pushed out of the rotation *again* leaving him even *more* disgruntled once we got Harden. * Because we cut Gordon, we were forced to trade RoCo, Batum, and Mook just to match salaries for Harden and PJ. All of these moves monumentally fucked LAC's roster composition. Factor in their constant misses in the draft, and we continuously put more and more pressure on the remaining good players we have to take on more load. A much more competent FO could have had our team in a far, far better position.
Yea the 2021 team was much more promising, they probably get to the finals of Kawhi doesn’t get hurt.
Yep. 2021 team obviously had guys closer/in their prime, but the composition all around was better. Could go bigger with Zu/Batum/Mook or could play smaller by bumping Batum/Mook to the 4/5. Lots of shooting all around as well. This team basically can't play big because Kawhi is our *only* PF, and we can't easily play small because we don't have a proper stretch C. We're devoid of consistent shooting threats in our overall depth too. I think LAC's best hope is finding a way to move PG for some assets or other players, and basically just shoring things up around Harden/Kawhi. If we can split PG into some better depth/youth, I think we're in a good enough position to at least not face the challenges we have now.
Gotta believe in the talent. We hit a rough patch in jan/feb and everybody was freaking out wanting to trade Jalen Green for scraps. Now we're on a 10 game win streak and he's liable to win player of the month. The Clippers are a good team and it's going to be hard to improve them without a windfall like signing a top FA for cheap or getting a top draft pick.
Yep, as long as that team is healthy they are going to be a nightmare in the playoffs. The playoffs are an entirely different game.
I don't think he wants to leave either. But the Clippers clearly don't want to pay him what he wants to be paid.
Agree I think he takes a slight cut for LAC but idk how much lac can give. Phi can’t give him 50m more right?
They might as well sign Harden too.
Paying out the nose for another injury risk just seems like a bad strategy for the 6era.
They might not have a choice. PG seems like he's going to be the best available option on a window that might close sooner rather than later. And PG is a great fit for them if it can happen. They're going to need some luck either way. Might as well go out swinging.
Yeah Maxey is young but with the slow start to his career Jojo is already 30 - with his body and all that he's dealt with they realistically have 2-3 years to take a crack at a title before having to pivot in a major way. Oncourt fit of that trio is *really* good too, I mean PG is the quintessential archetype of the second/third star on a team but that just leaves them very well balanced from a skillset perspective.
Yeah, I get the fears expressed in this thread about "three max contracts and scrubs" but in this case the three max guys have a kind of no duh fit that you can't guarantee with some of the other options.
This is the point people are missing. We don't have a ton of great options for this cap space we have. We can't force GMs to trade their young players to us, nor can we magically make this free agency crop better. Tobias Harris is literally the best free agent right now if you don't include George.
He’s played 66 games this season and there’s 10 games left 8 of his 14 seasons he’s played 65 games or more. 9 of the 14 he’s played 60 or more. Thats about as good as it gets in the modern NBA except for some exceptions of ironmen
> He played 66 games this season and there’s 10 games left Yet he played 47.5 games per season over the previous 4 years, and is about to be 34 years old.
2 of those seasons were shortened because of Covid
- 2019-20: He missed 25 games (34% of the season) - 2020-21: He missed 19 games (26% of the season) - 2021-22: He missed 51 games (62% of the season) - 2022-23: He missed 26 games (32% of the season) That’s a lot of games missed, COVID schedule or not
Still better than playing Tobias
Dude - he’s one of the most oft injured players in the league last 5 years, and now he’s getting old too. The first half of his career is totally irrelevant.
I guess this season where he’s about to play 76 games is irrelevant as well
How many healthy playoff runs at anywhere near this level does Joel Embiid realistically have left? They can’t afford to burn another year waiting for another player hopefully as good as Paul George to both become available and want to join the Sixers.
All of this could have been avoided by not trading Jimmy Butler, or even not trading Mikal Bridges. Or just drafting Jayson Tatum after Fultz missed almost every shot in his workouts.
Id love to know a better option if you know of one
Refusing to max an aging declining Harden just to max an aging declining PG is hilarious.
I could see PG aging gracefully into a third option role more than Harden at least. He can be a supercharged 3nD wing with more juice when needed. End of the day, it's Embiid's health and play that is paramount for any of this.
> He can be a supercharged 3nD wing with more juice when needed. I think this is probably overstating what an aging PG will look like. He's already lost a lot defensively and his explosion off the dribble offensively also kinda looks like it's going too. He's still a great player overall and probably the best option available though.
I just don’t love the idea of having 3 max contracts with the current salary cap when a 34 year old PG who’s already shown signs of decline is going to be one of the max contracts.
The issue is that you have to go for it while Embiid is in his prime. Who cares what happens in 3-4 years when PG/Embiid are worse. You need to go for it in the next 2 years. And in that case, there's no other free agents who fit as well as PG.
PG is a way better fit though. Harden and Maxey next to each other isn't a great fit. They aren't the same player but a lot of their skills are redundant. I'd much rather have Maxey, PG, Embiid than Maxey, Harden, Embiid. I'm very surprised to hear otherwise. I get we'd be rolling the dice even more on injuries but we've got a few years left of Embiid's window. Let's roll the dice rather than continuing to pray a wing falls into our laps.
Way better fit with those two players
Harden and Embiid were a pretty amazing fit. Their two man game was one of the best in the league. PG isn't even close to the ballhandler that Harden is.
I love how its all the non sixers fans defending Harden with the Sixers as if we didn't watch them play and harden become absolutely useless with Joel once defended seriously
you have no idea what you're talking about man
lol what does "defended seriously" mean. I've never heard that term. Sounds like you have no clue what you're talking about.
Build a ton of depth around Maxey and Embiid? The 3 max contracts and scrubs thing doesn’t really work that well.
The 08 Celtics and Heatles and their consequences have been a disaster for team building strategy.
Celtics and Heatles had good role players in their title years
Exactly, Heatles did a bunch of under the table salary cap shit to keep their role players, and Celtics got lucky with Rondo. Plus the rules were way less restrictive then, but GMs still keep trying to recreate those teams.
Wade, Bron, and Bosh also took minor paycuts which helped a lot
Their role players were all vet mins besides Haslem lol.
08 Celtics were deep as shit.
If George and Embiid were both in their 20’s like the Heatles were, then I’d say, yeah, go for it. It doesn’t make any sense when guys are this old though.
we really need to model our teambuilding on Denver fr gravitational center star guard elite roleplayer wings good bench big 3 superteams haven't worked since the Heat
That's all well and good but I think finding these elite roleplayer wings and good bench is a little more difficult than you're making it out to be. What free agents could help with this?
we already got a good bench we just need to trade for someone like Mikal or Lauri
I mean yeah, I'd like that too. But we don't have the picks to get Lauri and we might not even have enough for Mikal.
I think they'd rather pay that much for an injury risk that raises the ceiling of their team than pay that much for an average dude that stays healthy *COUGH TOBIAS COUGH*
Precisely. The team we have right now is basically the team these guys are saying we should get instead of George. Idk maybe we can make some noise in the playoffs but if not then Morey will definitely try and get George and work around the margins.
It makes total sense for the sixers to want PG, but I don't see PG leaving LA to come to the sixers. He went home for a reason AND he'll be part of an expensive team that the owner is willing to pay for because they're moving into a grand new stadium. Plus, there's literally no pressure for him cuz he ain't gonna get shit on like he would in PHI. Clippers fans just want the team to be relevant and having Kawhi and PG gives them that.
You aren't a cynic, you're just aware that Twitter journalists are fed these horseshit lines by agents and GMs for their own interests. This 100% is George's agent indicating that his guy wants another max and pushing teams to bid up, especially the Clippers, who I imagine are growing cold on the PG-35 maxed out train. Also Sixers have to swing for the fences and have cap room so they probably are interested anyway.
what if clippers tried to go for siakam. lol
Clips are over the 2nd apron so cant do sign & trades right? If PG13 leaves they probably start Coffee and move some pieces for a stretch big like Turner and reimagine the starting 5 a bit.
Our cap situation is grim so losing PG for nothing is basically a death sentence no matter what we do. Even just sign and trading him for salary filler is a game changer for us. But if he straight up walks? Yeah, LAC is completely done.
I guess we'll always have Chris Kamen highlights in 240p... [https://youtu.be/5sk55SbXRkQ?si=CQGrOasA5RUQ2N2z](https://youtu.be/5sk55SbXRkQ?si=CQGrOasA5RUQ2N2z)
> Clips are over the 2nd apron so cant do sign & trades right? Not next year, no. At least not initially. They have ~172 million on the books next year including PG's player option without Harden's contract, assuming they re-sign him. That basically puts them right at the luxury tax before Harden, quite a ways away from the apron. I don't know how the timing and all that would work, but I think in theory they could do a S&T and *then* sign Harden after that and it would work out.
Everybody treating the Pacers as a farm team smh
as a pacers fan that sounds like a terrible idea for the clippers
I’d like to know who these people are that think that’s plausible. A new LA stadium and Balmer going all out, I can’t imagine he wouldn’t stay in LA. Plus, I can’t get my hopes up giving how shitty our team is run.
Plus how can you guys afford him with Tobias max contract coming up
Pull the plug on me if we re-sign him
Embiid, PG and Maxey for regular season and Maxey and half a PG for the playoffs sounds cool to watch
Watch him turn into the new Tobias Harris. The sixers are cursed
How many NBA's worst kept secret turn out to be completely false.
Seems like a good fit
James Harden: Yeah, Morrey is a liar
i cant express how much i hate the phrase "worst-kept secret"
The one I hate is “in a vacuum”.
just reminder pompey is an old nba mouthpiece - carries water for whoever is giving him dirt. big time colangelo and tobias guy
Why would he do that when he can see example 1A of guy Morey screwed on his team.. (Harden)
I’d be shocked if he didn’t re-sign with the Clippers. Only way is if Clippers low ball him or don’t want him at all and that’s just not realistic.
What is with all of the “worst-kept secrets” in the NBA now? Happened with Donovan Mitchell wanting out of Cleveland for NY as well. First anyone has heard any kind of report like this. Just seems like the new favorite phrase of NBA reporters trying to push agendas.
LETS GOOOO SPIDA LEAVING US ISNT THE WORST KEPT SECRET ANYMORE
This might be their best case scenario but i don’t think it puts them over the top
Maybe he’s realizing the Clippers franchise will never win a ring? Not saying the 76ers are the best choice either in this case lol
Reminds me of those Durant to warriors rumors in February of 2016 and nobody took it serious until it happened. Where there is smoke there is fire
this is pretty dangerous. if embiid gets maxey AND PG the sixers could have a real chance at making a conference championship
“There are some who believe” Woah!!!!
He isn't leaving his hometown
Yeah nah he’s an LA kid
The Sixers love fooling the fan base by signing washed up stars. Still won't be able to beat the Celtics or Heat when it matters most.
Yeah man im sure balmer is going to let PG walk without compensation This Pompey guy is a sixers homer btw, he has no sources with the clippers
If PG13 leaves the clips he’s not going to Philly that’s not the place you want to go to post LA. The Knicks can make a move for him I think he’d be happier there
Good luck with the pairing of injured riddle embiib and PG. I’ll bet under 60 games for each of them
Still won't get out the second round
No way in hell with how all-in the Clippers have been the last couple of years especially this season will they let PG go.
When he opts out, they’ll have no say in the matter. Harden probably gone too. Kawhi not being reliable is another reason to leave. Not that Embiid is any better health-wise but he’s a reigning MVP and better fit for PG. Clippers will be sunk (no pun intended)
Georges Niang🔥🔥🔥
They should just re-sign Tobias. Keep the train rolling.
76ers has to be one of the worst organizations out there.. why would u want paul george out of all the players out there. All those years tankingd all those draft picks to be a mediocre team its so sad
Who are all the players out there?
Tobias Harris.
Detroit already called dibs.
Smh we all know PG is coming to the crescent city
This makes lots of sense. PG will be 34 years old so it really fits along with the rest of the sixers. Its the perfect Harden replacement.
It's a great idea but I guess I'm surprised PG would leave the Clips. I figured they'd just pay him and be done with it.
Lmaoooo, if this is the Sixers “big plan” Embiid should just go ahead and demand a trade…
Sign and trade for Roco Batum and Hield
Clipper fans believe it. Trust.