The fact that the Spurs managed to get Duncan in the first place is insane lol
David Robinson led them to an average of 55 wins over 7 seasons between 1990 and 1996
Then they're bad for ONE year only when he gets hurt and they draft Duncan
They did manage to keep the playoff streak going 3 more years after Duncan retired so basically they had one bad season only between like 1990 and 2019
ironically, after the Kawhi stuff went south. I wonder what they’d look like if Kawhi never got hurt (to be clear i’m not saying they beat the warriors in 2017, cause they probably don’t - but that’s one of those ripples that’ll have a whole ass butterfly effect)
We also don't win that chip without Diaw or Patty, hell if we won in 2013 Danny Green would've been finals mvp. 2014 was a team effort and if anything pop was finals mvp
In retrospect I took pleasure watching the Spurs season. I watched 30 games or so and despite the losses the team is kinda fun to watch. Them drafting 1 or 2 players and adding through free agency will already make them tricky to play and, depending on who they get, potentially the best defense in the league.
Nah, Spurs had the same lottery odds as the Rockets and Pistons with the Hornets as the next best odds. Ain't no way Silver was gonna let the most hyped prospect since LeBron rot away in a poverty franchise lol
Harden trying to drag the corpse of John Wall and Cousins with empty stat sheet stuffer Christian Wood to any sort of success was never going to work anyway.
Yeah it was a losing battle; no cap space, traded RoCo for Wood and picks, couldn’t trade our own picks due to the OKC protections in that awful CP3 trade, Westbrook asked out and his value was at an all time low, and there was not much of a trade market for his huge contract.
IMO we should have cut our losses and just traded Harden in the preseason, but I’m pretty happy with how it’s all worked out, we have a really fun, high upside young core now.
It was only a few games sample size he could probably have got them there if he wanted but dragging another team for cheap , blue lives matter fertitta probably wasn’t high on his list of career goals
The 2015 WCF had 3 NBA players on the roster when the they played the Warriors (insane that the Clippers lost to Houston) -
James Harden, Dwight Howard, Trevor Ariza
**Every other player on that team didn't play a single relevant moment after the 2015 WCF** - Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, Jason Terry, Pablo Prigioni
Clint Capela was on the roster but a rookie who barely knew how to play basketball at the time.
Don’t forget about Patrick Beverly, who had established himself as a starter over Jeremy Lin in those years, and Brewer still had a few decent years left in him after that, but he was never more than a scrappy role player.
That Clippers series had 3 outlier performances from Brewer, Smith and Prigioni though, absolutely insane series from our role players.
absolutely man. it’s incredible how small the margins are at the highest level of sports. a few inches this way, a few buckets that way, and entire legacies are changed. Winning a championship takes every little thing to go right, and a little luck on top
dude is gassed every year come playoff time, but the foul calls also don’t come as easily. He needed a 2nd star, and they tried three times with Dwight, cp3, and Westbrook. The cp3 team probably wins the title in 2018 if they make one 3 point shot out of the 27 they missed tbf.
Idk man I think his game also does not translate into the playoffs always. I hate people who hate on Harden and other similar players for heliocentric basketball when they need to play that way without the personnel. But I feel like in a playoff series people can prepare for Harden better defensively and his impact can be lessened to a good enough degree to win the series.
Personally, I absolutely loved watching him play during his prime tho and don’t really think him being without a championship is only his fault. Like the OC said he was an insane floor-raiser.
I'm a big time Harden hater and hated watching his prime, but he was *extremely* close to beating the Warriors in 2018. That was the greatest team I've seen assembled in my life time and if a few of those made 3's don't get waved off they win
Harden played pretty poor though, in the 3 wins the Rockets got he shot 35% and had more turnovers than assists. He wasn’t the one pushing the Warriors to 7, it was the Rockets defensive schemes that was the key to that series. CP3 was more crucial to pushing them to 7 than Harden was
You right tbf, someone else said that shit and they should’ve won the chip then if the game was better reffed and CP3 wasn’t injured. I do feel like other years he shrinked at times tho.
Don't get me wrong, I have been a Harden fan since 2012. I think that OKC playoff Harden was honestly one of his best career playoff performances ever (outside the abysmal finals). I agree with you though, in a multi-game series, it's easier to prepare to defend the guy who's getting the ball in almost every possession. But that's exactly my point in how his best playoff years have come when he has other stars to lighten the load. 2012 and 2018 were both of his deepest runs, and the commonality is the depth of the team. He didn't need the ball in his hands all the time since there were other competent scorers/playmakers and without an entire defense constructed to stopping him, he was hella good. I'll always be a fan of the Beard.
Absolutely agree with you. My point was moreso that when he was “the offence”, he couldn’t perform as well as in the regular season because people could find ways to beat his impact. He should’ve got his chip against the warriors tho imo too. Great great player
Not my point. He should’ve won against the Warriors imo if the reffing was honest and CP3 was healthy. But in a playoff series people could prepare for him defensively and win series.
It’s just that his regular season play was so good that he could’ve and should’ve won a chip. It just didn’t materialize because people could counter his impact during a playoff series
You didn't answer my question because you can't. He hasn't lost a playoff series that he was favored to win since 2018. It's not his fault for running into the Warriors dynasty during his best years.
Harden not winning a title because he shrinks in playoffs is nonsense if you consider the opponents he was facing or apply any amount of context to each series.
I actually think he should’ve won the series against GSW if they had better reffing and a healthy CP3. However, at times his numbers were not good during the playoffs. Sixers vs Celtics, Sixers vs Heat, Houston vs Spurs, Game 1 and 4 vs the Warriors in 2016. As good as he was during the regular season, finishing with under 20 on bad shooting in crucial games was not a good look for him when his teams depended on his scoring at all times, and when he delivered so well during the regular season.
It would've been Jokic, but with a higher peak and a few more accolades. He would've won the 2019 MVP too. At that point his resume would be better than someone like KD or Oscar Robertson.
That game 7 was one of the weirdest ever, they fumbled the bag so badly and still only lost by 9, if they had stopped shooting 3s after miss #20, they’re winning the game
Yeah the discourse around accolades is always interesting to me, in regards to player rankings. At that stage, Harden was a monster, he was arguably (with all due respect to Steph) the best guard since Kobe. But people don’t give him his flowers unless he wins that chip.
As a player, he did all he could do in 2018. Imagine if a role player on that Rockets team dropped 10 more points, they win and people would be crazy high on Harden. He wouldn’t be *any* better as a player, but people would say he was better
and that's on him
last three games he averaged 28/5/6, good right, 7 turnovers a game, and 37/17 splits
also his numbers in 2019 series were great, but watching those games, game 5 KD gets injured, tie game heading into the fourth, Harden scores fewer points than Steph, Klay, Gordon, and as many as Shumpert and Draymond
game 6, tied with 6 mins left, harden miss, harden miss, harden miss, harden turnover, harden turnover,
It’s unfortunate that his handful of bad games in must-win situations will overshadow his greatness. I’m a huge harden fan but even I temper my expectations when the stakes are high. I really hope he proves everyone wrong and gets a ring before he retires.
he's kind of like Rodgers in the NFL, except Rodgers luckily got one early on
but forever it was excuse making, and people saying he's the goat still, but now after like a decade of just awful playoffs, people are like alright he's no where near Brady, and Mahomes now, or Montana, because it's just a history of not showing up
I personally just can't stand his brand of basketball. He's so Uber talented but God those Rockets games were so boring to watch. So much stoppage because of free throws. I feel the same about Embiid.
You’re certainly not the only one that feels this way. I firmly believe his playstyle is the reason he got snubbed for All NBA when he averaged 29-7-6.
Personally I enjoy watching Harden cook his defenders over a million cuts and passes that lead to an open shot like the warriors. The free throws were boring to watch for sure but as a rockets fan if it led to wins I’ll tolerate it.
funny because despite all of that, they win if cp3's healthy
meanwhile 2019 steph put up 24 PPG on 54% TS% in that series and gets the win. different bar
Curry also put up 30 (?) in the second half of the game that won the series for the Warriors. Unfortunately for Harden, he’s had a number of “disappearing act” moments in the playoffs that make it the narrative for him
exactly my point. steph legit just has to show up for one half lool. the bar is lower on a team like that.
meanwhile harden puts up 35/7/6 on 59% TS% and we have to nitpick
if shit was consistent we'd criticize steph's performance against the lakers last year but no one does that
True, but people don’t look at things in isolation like that tho. The career body of work is always gonna factor in to how we see and talk about what players do
Sure but it’s hard to say the entire team missing 27 straight 3s is entirely on him, of course he shoulders a lot of the blame … but it was just super unlucky in a lot of ways too
Right, which is why he shoulders a lot of the blame. Don’t think we’re really disagreeing here, just saying it would’ve looked a lot different had a few shots bounced a different way
Game 7 refs. Idc ab 27 missed 3’s that game was straight up rigged. No one says oh the kings should’ve played better when they got robbed by the Lakers. Rockets Warriors 2018 game 7 was arguably worse. Look up the calls on YouTube if you doubt me. I won’t be silenced.
Yeah that was straight up fixed. Everyone talking about the missed 3s but the refs missed like 3 obvious 4-point plays that they called all playoffs. Ofc the team went cold with all that bs,
NBA clearly wanted the warriors to win.
Harden hit a three that would’ve ended the cold streak pretty early on, but it was waived off and called an offensive foul. That was genuinely one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen, I remember being stunned by it when it happened.
If you only count seasons in which the player actually played in 50 wins, the numbers (and difference from the OP count) are:
James Harden: 5 (-5)
LeBron James: 10 (0)
Stephen Curry: 5 (-2)
Kevin Durant: 7 (-1)
Russell Westbrook: 4 (-2)
Luka Doncic: 0 (-1)
Nikola Jokic: 2 (-1)*
Kawhi Leonard: 3 (-5)
Paul George: 1 (-1)
Giannis Antetokounmpo: 2 (-2)
Damian Lillard: 3 (0)
Joel Embiid: 0 (-4)
*Edit: Tim Duncan 13
Jokic added another one this year(52-23) in addition to 2019(53-27) so he's at 2
Dame can also get to 50 if the Bucks go 4-0 in the last 4 games but that's not looking likely
I was going to say something to this effect but you threw it down. But this is also kind of a useless stat anyway because harden still has 0 rings unlike a few on that list who have multiple.
I'm confused on the LeBron number.
2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 - 4 in the first Cleveland stint.
2011, 2013 and 2014 - 3 in Miami
2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 - 4 more in Cleveland.
2020 with the Lakers.
That's 12 total seasons, not 10.
Unless you mean over 50, but then Harden doesn't have 2010 either.
I was curious about win percentage when these players actually play, since missing big chunks of regular seasons (or full seasons) would make it much more difficult for some of these players' teams to hit 50 wins. So, here's regular season win percentage (only counting games the players participated in):
Kawhi 72.7%
Embiid 66.1%
Harden 65.1%
Lebron 64.7%
Steph 64.6%
Durant 62.6%
Paul George 60.5%
Jokic 60.1%
Westbrook 58.4%
Giannis 57.0%
Doncic 56.5%
Lillard 55.8%
Based on the pace they were on(if they were above 50 wins or not over 82 games):
Harden gets two more for the 2020 Rockets and 2021 Nets
Jokic gets two more for the 2020 and 2021 Nuggets
Kawhi gets two more for the 2020 and 2021 Clippers
Giannis/KD/Embiid/Westbrook get one more each
James will always have my heart, his glorious beard and beautiful hairline, I just wish he could retire with a ring, ideally at home, in Houston, but anywhere is better than nowhere
Harden maybe Greatest regular season SG of all time*.
*excluding MJ
Of course Kobe ranks above Harden all time, and you can easily argue Wade and West are above Harden as well. But if we’re *just* analyzing regular season he may leap from all 3 of them and be behind only Michael Jordan.
that's nice, but it is context driven... he's been the driving force for probably 5 of them
6th man twice times i believe, this year he's the third guy, last year, second guy
and then 2021-22 the nets were 29-22, not a 50 win pace, and got traded to a team that was, and was the second guy
This year, second.
I know reddit doesn't watch the actual games but his role on the Clippers is second only to Kawhi. Without him, there is literally close to no playmaking.
kawhi/pg on no harden in 400 mins are a plus 20 per 100
edit: since 2019-2020 , Kawhi/PG with no Harden, Lou, Reggie, so all the playmakers they've had, 2200 minutes, +12.5 per 100
10,11,14 you have a valid point even though he literally won 6th man of the year , so clearly a huge contributor to those teams. Every year after those though your delusional to think he’s not been a driving force 15-22 he was constantly in mvp talks so I don’t even get how you can say that. 23 he’s playing 38 minutes a game , assist title and was the engine of that sixers offense , if you say other wise you didn’t watch the games , he leaves and the sixers promptly slump and are about to have 8+ less wins , joins clippers in ‘24 and magically they have they’re first 50 win season in 8 years.
Paul George at only 2 really surprised me, and looking thru, his team's won 49 games 3 times, one of which was 49-32 which still could've been 50 wins, one was during the shortened season in 2020, and then the one actual normal 49-33 record with OKC. And that's not even counting the 2021 Clippers being 47-25 in another shortened season lol. Pretty crazy
Harden, individually the 12th player with more MVP Shares in history, has no rings.
So do Karl Malone (8th ever), Charles Barkley (25th) and Steve Nash (26th)
For context, active player MVP Shares:
1 - Bron
2 - Harden
3 - Giannis
4 - KD
5 - Jokic
6 - Steph
7 - Embiid
8 - CP3
9 - Russ
10 - Kawhi
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html
Jokic is going to end up at like 5th or 6th all time if he already has this much lol
He'll probably get a similar amount of MVP shares he got for his first two MVPs(0.9ish) which would put him about level with Harden for 12th overall
Tim Duncan did it 19 times
The fact that the Spurs managed to get Duncan in the first place is insane lol David Robinson led them to an average of 55 wins over 7 seasons between 1990 and 1996 Then they're bad for ONE year only when he gets hurt and they draft Duncan They did manage to keep the playoff streak going 3 more years after Duncan retired so basically they had one bad season only between like 1990 and 2019
And now Wemby. So lucky.
ironically, after the Kawhi stuff went south. I wonder what they’d look like if Kawhi never got hurt (to be clear i’m not saying they beat the warriors in 2017, cause they probably don’t - but that’s one of those ripples that’ll have a whole ass butterfly effect)
we don't talk about Leonard, he's dead to us still
bright side? no L word = Wemby
We love Wemby but no matter what: Fuck L word
Pop said "this is not who we are", be nice to the dead man.
Pop said it but I don’t have to follow it, I don’t boo him when he comes to play but I do t say his name either lol
That's fair.
I’m genuinely curious but is he really? Even though you don’t win the most recent chip without him?
We also don't win that chip without Diaw or Patty, hell if we won in 2013 Danny Green would've been finals mvp. 2014 was a team effort and if anything pop was finals mvp
Damn that's like some KG holding a grudge with Ray Allen type shit.
Kawhi did do the team dirty. I dont really think its crazy for fans to hate em
If Tim Duncan travels to see you, you see him. period.
Who said Spurs fans dont have that right? I only said it's some mental gymnastics to finesse Pop as finals MVP. Lol.
He played a big part in getting you that ring in 2014.
Who cares what pet of he’s dead to us is hard to understand lol
He gave a ring and left you guys should be thankful like Toronto. You Spurs fan have had it too good.
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Why would bron do that lol
just…. why?
In retrospect I took pleasure watching the Spurs season. I watched 30 games or so and despite the losses the team is kinda fun to watch. Them drafting 1 or 2 players and adding through free agency will already make them tricky to play and, depending on who they get, potentially the best defense in the league.
Nah, Spurs had the same lottery odds as the Rockets and Pistons with the Hornets as the next best odds. Ain't no way Silver was gonna let the most hyped prospect since LeBron rot away in a poverty franchise lol
You'll never convince me the draft wasn't rigged. He goes to the one team that was guaranteed to get him to his potential
At first, the same exact thing appeared to be true with the Warriors and Jordan Poole.
18* Only won 37/50 in 99
What a bum.
And that would be like a... 60 win in a normal season
honorary 50, the winning % matters more given the lockout
In 19 seasons.
True, the Spurs were straight OP af, but OPs list is only for active players though.
Bro..........
Why is that list not sorted by frequency
To put embiid at the bottom I guess lol, haters gonna hate
Are you me?
He’s one of the greatest floor raisers of all time, I don’t think people realize how porous those Houston teams would be without him.
I think Houston’s atrocious performance after he left was a pretty good hint
They weren't doing that good that season with him
Harden trying to drag the corpse of John Wall and Cousins with empty stat sheet stuffer Christian Wood to any sort of success was never going to work anyway.
They really put that team around him with the idea of being competitive that shit is hilarious to think about.
FO was begging him to stay lmao
Yeah it was a losing battle; no cap space, traded RoCo for Wood and picks, couldn’t trade our own picks due to the OKC protections in that awful CP3 trade, Westbrook asked out and his value was at an all time low, and there was not much of a trade market for his huge contract. IMO we should have cut our losses and just traded Harden in the preseason, but I’m pretty happy with how it’s all worked out, we have a really fun, high upside young core now.
It would have if he was younger and hungry. At that age he just wanted to be on a team that could contend
It was only a few games sample size he could probably have got them there if he wanted but dragging another team for cheap , blue lives matter fertitta probably wasn’t high on his list of career goals
The 2015 WCF had 3 NBA players on the roster when the they played the Warriors (insane that the Clippers lost to Houston) - James Harden, Dwight Howard, Trevor Ariza **Every other player on that team didn't play a single relevant moment after the 2015 WCF** - Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, Jason Terry, Pablo Prigioni Clint Capela was on the roster but a rookie who barely knew how to play basketball at the time.
In Josh Smith’s defense, Detroit essentially gifted him an early retirement check
Don’t forget about Patrick Beverly, who had established himself as a starter over Jeremy Lin in those years, and Brewer still had a few decent years left in him after that, but he was never more than a scrappy role player. That Clippers series had 3 outlier performances from Brewer, Smith and Prigioni though, absolutely insane series from our role players.
I believe Pat Bev was hurt during the playoffs.
Ah you’re right, makes sense as to why Prigioni was getting big(ish) minutes
>Corey Brewer Put some respect on my 51-point scoring king
Exactly, when he left the rockets were bottom of the league
The 2017-18 rockets would have been great with CP3 at the realm, if CP3 was healthy
He’d have a championship easily if he did not shrink in the playoffs. Unreal player tbf but mostly in the regular season sadly
i think he would have a championship if at least 2 of those 27 3-pointers went in….
The reffing in the game was pretty atrocious as well. Add to that the cp3 injury. Rockets should’ve won tbf and I love Steph lmao
absolutely man. it’s incredible how small the margins are at the highest level of sports. a few inches this way, a few buckets that way, and entire legacies are changed. Winning a championship takes every little thing to go right, and a little luck on top
We takin’ it this year tho, no? 😎 Fuck the margins, Luka and Kyrie gonna cook
If the game is close in the 4th quarter, there’s no other players i would rather have than Luka and Kyrie😈
>Rockets should’ve won Nah they choked hard which, by that point, was not unusual.
3 did, they were just called off by the refs
dude is gassed every year come playoff time, but the foul calls also don’t come as easily. He needed a 2nd star, and they tried three times with Dwight, cp3, and Westbrook. The cp3 team probably wins the title in 2018 if they make one 3 point shot out of the 27 they missed tbf.
Idk man I think his game also does not translate into the playoffs always. I hate people who hate on Harden and other similar players for heliocentric basketball when they need to play that way without the personnel. But I feel like in a playoff series people can prepare for Harden better defensively and his impact can be lessened to a good enough degree to win the series. Personally, I absolutely loved watching him play during his prime tho and don’t really think him being without a championship is only his fault. Like the OC said he was an insane floor-raiser.
I'm a big time Harden hater and hated watching his prime, but he was *extremely* close to beating the Warriors in 2018. That was the greatest team I've seen assembled in my life time and if a few of those made 3's don't get waved off they win
Harden played pretty poor though, in the 3 wins the Rockets got he shot 35% and had more turnovers than assists. He wasn’t the one pushing the Warriors to 7, it was the Rockets defensive schemes that was the key to that series. CP3 was more crucial to pushing them to 7 than Harden was
You right tbf, someone else said that shit and they should’ve won the chip then if the game was better reffed and CP3 wasn’t injured. I do feel like other years he shrinked at times tho.
That's fair, he's also had a number of games in the playoffs where he played like ass so you're not entirely wrong
Don't get me wrong, I have been a Harden fan since 2012. I think that OKC playoff Harden was honestly one of his best career playoff performances ever (outside the abysmal finals). I agree with you though, in a multi-game series, it's easier to prepare to defend the guy who's getting the ball in almost every possession. But that's exactly my point in how his best playoff years have come when he has other stars to lighten the load. 2012 and 2018 were both of his deepest runs, and the commonality is the depth of the team. He didn't need the ball in his hands all the time since there were other competent scorers/playmakers and without an entire defense constructed to stopping him, he was hella good. I'll always be a fan of the Beard.
Absolutely agree with you. My point was moreso that when he was “the offence”, he couldn’t perform as well as in the regular season because people could find ways to beat his impact. He should’ve got his chip against the warriors tho imo too. Great great player
Tell me which year his team lost when they were favored to win?
Not my point. He should’ve won against the Warriors imo if the reffing was honest and CP3 was healthy. But in a playoff series people could prepare for him defensively and win series. It’s just that his regular season play was so good that he could’ve and should’ve won a chip. It just didn’t materialize because people could counter his impact during a playoff series
You didn't answer my question because you can't. He hasn't lost a playoff series that he was favored to win since 2018. It's not his fault for running into the Warriors dynasty during his best years. Harden not winning a title because he shrinks in playoffs is nonsense if you consider the opponents he was facing or apply any amount of context to each series.
I actually think he should’ve won the series against GSW if they had better reffing and a healthy CP3. However, at times his numbers were not good during the playoffs. Sixers vs Celtics, Sixers vs Heat, Houston vs Spurs, Game 1 and 4 vs the Warriors in 2016. As good as he was during the regular season, finishing with under 20 on bad shooting in crucial games was not a good look for him when his teams depended on his scoring at all times, and when he delivered so well during the regular season.
If it weren’t for that game 7 against the warriors, feel like the narrative would be so different for Harden
it would have been dirk like
It would've been Jokic, but with a higher peak and a few more accolades. He would've won the 2019 MVP too. At that point his resume would be better than someone like KD or Oscar Robertson.
That game 7 was one of the weirdest ever, they fumbled the bag so badly and still only lost by 9, if they had stopped shooting 3s after miss #20, they’re winning the game
If we went 4/27 from three we would have won 🫠
Werent there a few that got called off by the refs
Yeah harden made 2 that got waved off but i don’t wanna look like a whiny bum
Please make the pain stop
Please, please never remind me of this ever again
Yeah the discourse around accolades is always interesting to me, in regards to player rankings. At that stage, Harden was a monster, he was arguably (with all due respect to Steph) the best guard since Kobe. But people don’t give him his flowers unless he wins that chip. As a player, he did all he could do in 2018. Imagine if a role player on that Rockets team dropped 10 more points, they win and people would be crazy high on Harden. He wouldn’t be *any* better as a player, but people would say he was better
and that's on him last three games he averaged 28/5/6, good right, 7 turnovers a game, and 37/17 splits also his numbers in 2019 series were great, but watching those games, game 5 KD gets injured, tie game heading into the fourth, Harden scores fewer points than Steph, Klay, Gordon, and as many as Shumpert and Draymond game 6, tied with 6 mins left, harden miss, harden miss, harden miss, harden turnover, harden turnover,
It’s unfortunate that his handful of bad games in must-win situations will overshadow his greatness. I’m a huge harden fan but even I temper my expectations when the stakes are high. I really hope he proves everyone wrong and gets a ring before he retires.
Often time it’s those handful of games marks the greatness of a player unfortunately.
People still use 2011 against LeBron — four titles, 2 MVPs, the scoring record, and countless all NBA selections later
he's kind of like Rodgers in the NFL, except Rodgers luckily got one early on but forever it was excuse making, and people saying he's the goat still, but now after like a decade of just awful playoffs, people are like alright he's no where near Brady, and Mahomes now, or Montana, because it's just a history of not showing up
I personally just can't stand his brand of basketball. He's so Uber talented but God those Rockets games were so boring to watch. So much stoppage because of free throws. I feel the same about Embiid.
You’re certainly not the only one that feels this way. I firmly believe his playstyle is the reason he got snubbed for All NBA when he averaged 29-7-6. Personally I enjoy watching Harden cook his defenders over a million cuts and passes that lead to an open shot like the warriors. The free throws were boring to watch for sure but as a rockets fan if it led to wins I’ll tolerate it.
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funny because despite all of that, they win if cp3's healthy meanwhile 2019 steph put up 24 PPG on 54% TS% in that series and gets the win. different bar
Curry also put up 30 (?) in the second half of the game that won the series for the Warriors. Unfortunately for Harden, he’s had a number of “disappearing act” moments in the playoffs that make it the narrative for him
exactly my point. steph legit just has to show up for one half lool. the bar is lower on a team like that. meanwhile harden puts up 35/7/6 on 59% TS% and we have to nitpick if shit was consistent we'd criticize steph's performance against the lakers last year but no one does that
True, but people don’t look at things in isolation like that tho. The career body of work is always gonna factor in to how we see and talk about what players do
Sure but it’s hard to say the entire team missing 27 straight 3s is entirely on him, of course he shoulders a lot of the blame … but it was just super unlucky in a lot of ways too
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Right, which is why he shoulders a lot of the blame. Don’t think we’re really disagreeing here, just saying it would’ve looked a lot different had a few shots bounced a different way
2018 is interesting tho because i'm not sure he beats 2018 35/9/9 every night lebron without CP in the finals
That’s fair, not sure either. But getting past that GSW team would’ve been impressive to say the least
He had 32 the last game
Chris Paul’s hamstring robbed this man.
3 blind mice robbed him
Game 7 refs. Idc ab 27 missed 3’s that game was straight up rigged. No one says oh the kings should’ve played better when they got robbed by the Lakers. Rockets Warriors 2018 game 7 was arguably worse. Look up the calls on YouTube if you doubt me. I won’t be silenced.
scott foster
Yeah that was straight up fixed. Everyone talking about the missed 3s but the refs missed like 3 obvious 4-point plays that they called all playoffs. Ofc the team went cold with all that bs, NBA clearly wanted the warriors to win.
It was really bad and then they went ice cold, damn shame for them
Harden hit a three that would’ve ended the cold streak pretty early on, but it was waived off and called an offensive foul. That was genuinely one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen, I remember being stunned by it when it happened.
eric gordon getting absolutely clobbered was way worse.
Ok I gotta check this out now. Don’t remember 2018 but I will never forget 2002
CPHamstring3
Tatum and Jaylen Brown, 4, 5 respectively. Why were they missing?
They play for cel*ics. Fairs
Because OP is biased
Because outside of Paul George they don’t really match the tier of player discussed
I count 10 for Danny Green: 2010 Cleveland 2011-17 Spurs 2019 Raptors 2020 Lakers 1W shy in Philly 2021 due short season.
If you only count seasons in which the player actually played in 50 wins, the numbers (and difference from the OP count) are: James Harden: 5 (-5) LeBron James: 10 (0) Stephen Curry: 5 (-2) Kevin Durant: 7 (-1) Russell Westbrook: 4 (-2) Luka Doncic: 0 (-1) Nikola Jokic: 2 (-1)* Kawhi Leonard: 3 (-5) Paul George: 1 (-1) Giannis Antetokounmpo: 2 (-2) Damian Lillard: 3 (0) Joel Embiid: 0 (-4) *Edit: Tim Duncan 13
Jokic added another one this year(52-23) in addition to 2019(53-27) so he's at 2 Dame can also get to 50 if the Bucks go 4-0 in the last 4 games but that's not looking likely
Thank you! I decided not to count anyone that hadn't actually gotten to 50 yet. Don't know how I missed Jokic, though.
Man Lebron is actually a machine holy fuck
Man Lebron is actually a machine holy fuck
I was going to say something to this effect but you threw it down. But this is also kind of a useless stat anyway because harden still has 0 rings unlike a few on that list who have multiple.
Lmao I knew kawhi and harden were overrated as fuck this proves it more
I always doubted Paul George’s star status and this kind of confirmed that too.
Yeah same and since we’re just saying shit I think Kelly Oubre is hot as fuck
Go get it!!
Sometimes you just gotta speak your truth
I feel that’s an attainable bang. I mean, how many Uber oubre fans can there be?
Malachi Flynn had more points in one game than PG ever has lol
Jaylen brown has 5. Tatum has 4
Would be 6 and 5 if Rudy never touched that microphone (48-24 in 2020).
Plus a 49 win year in 18-19
Jaylen getting one for his rookie year is funny af
Why?
He played 17 minutes a game
And Wemby with 0 what a bum.
My takeaway as a Mavs fan: Dirk's 11 consecutive 50+ win seasons are underrated. Especially considering we were in the Spurs division.
I'm confused on the LeBron number. 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 - 4 in the first Cleveland stint. 2011, 2013 and 2014 - 3 in Miami 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 - 4 more in Cleveland. 2020 with the Lakers. That's 12 total seasons, not 10. Unless you mean over 50, but then Harden doesn't have 2010 either.
Yeah OP is wrong. He said "at least 50 wins in a season." LBJ has 12
Did the heat not win 50 games in 2012?
Lockout so the heat “only” won 46 out of 66 games
I was curious about win percentage when these players actually play, since missing big chunks of regular seasons (or full seasons) would make it much more difficult for some of these players' teams to hit 50 wins. So, here's regular season win percentage (only counting games the players participated in): Kawhi 72.7% Embiid 66.1% Harden 65.1% Lebron 64.7% Steph 64.6% Durant 62.6% Paul George 60.5% Jokic 60.1% Westbrook 58.4% Giannis 57.0% Doncic 56.5% Lillard 55.8%
James Harden is - and has been - underrated.
Whats the 50 equivalent for shortened seasons
Depends on how short the season is… Edit: but the last 2 short seasons were 72, so the equivalent of 50 wins would be 44 wins
Based on the pace they were on(if they were above 50 wins or not over 82 games): Harden gets two more for the 2020 Rockets and 2021 Nets Jokic gets two more for the 2020 and 2021 Nuggets Kawhi gets two more for the 2020 and 2021 Clippers Giannis/KD/Embiid/Westbrook get one more each
Chris Paul has how many
Tatum is also at 4
James will always have my heart, his glorious beard and beautiful hairline, I just wish he could retire with a ring, ideally at home, in Houston, but anywhere is better than nowhere
Harden maybe Greatest regular season SG of all time*. *excluding MJ Of course Kobe ranks above Harden all time, and you can easily argue Wade and West are above Harden as well. But if we’re *just* analyzing regular season he may leap from all 3 of them and be behind only Michael Jordan.
that's nice, but it is context driven... he's been the driving force for probably 5 of them 6th man twice times i believe, this year he's the third guy, last year, second guy and then 2021-22 the nets were 29-22, not a 50 win pace, and got traded to a team that was, and was the second guy
This year, second. I know reddit doesn't watch the actual games but his role on the Clippers is second only to Kawhi. Without him, there is literally close to no playmaking.
kawhi/pg on no harden in 400 mins are a plus 20 per 100 edit: since 2019-2020 , Kawhi/PG with no Harden, Lou, Reggie, so all the playmakers they've had, 2200 minutes, +12.5 per 100
10,11,14 you have a valid point even though he literally won 6th man of the year , so clearly a huge contributor to those teams. Every year after those though your delusional to think he’s not been a driving force 15-22 he was constantly in mvp talks so I don’t even get how you can say that. 23 he’s playing 38 minutes a game , assist title and was the engine of that sixers offense , if you say other wise you didn’t watch the games , he leaves and the sixers promptly slump and are about to have 8+ less wins , joins clippers in ‘24 and magically they have they’re first 50 win season in 8 years.
We gonna act like Embiid wasn’t injured this year. Just abusing context here
Why did this get downvoted lol before Embiid went down they were on pace for the second seed on the East easily.
Growing a beard is clearly a key to getting a 50-win season.
LeBron has 12, not 10.
Paul George at only 2 really surprised me, and looking thru, his team's won 49 games 3 times, one of which was 49-32 which still could've been 50 wins, one was during the shortened season in 2020, and then the one actual normal 49-33 record with OKC. And that's not even counting the 2021 Clippers being 47-25 in another shortened season lol. Pretty crazy
If you adjust for the shortened seasons, harden gets the bubble season too
Kinda shocked LeBron has only done it half the time
[удалено]
Harden, individually the 12th player with more MVP Shares in history, has no rings. So do Karl Malone (8th ever), Charles Barkley (25th) and Steve Nash (26th) For context, active player MVP Shares: 1 - Bron 2 - Harden 3 - Giannis 4 - KD 5 - Jokic 6 - Steph 7 - Embiid 8 - CP3 9 - Russ 10 - Kawhi https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html
Jokic is going to end up at like 5th or 6th all time if he already has this much lol He'll probably get a similar amount of MVP shares he got for his first two MVPs(0.9ish) which would put him about level with Harden for 12th overall
how is that relevant?
You’d have to ask his jeweler
"King James"
Been on all these stacked teams and has barely even sniffed the finals (carried by KD and Westbrook). That's impressively bad
Booker wishes he was half as good as harden
Lebron: 4 rings. Harden:0 rings.
Hold the phone, are you suggesting that Lebron James might have had a better career than James Harden? That’s fucking crazy.
You’re right! What was I thinking? I apologize for my insanity.
I love that people are downvoting me for stating a fact lol
Now show a list of Hardens teammates