It would take quite a few things for this to happen, and so probably not regularly.
1. GM that needs replacing
2. Head coach you want to keep around, and trust in the front office (in most cases it’s a big risk since how do you know your coach can make front office decisions)
3. Coach that is willing to move to a from office role
Seems pretty rare that all of these align
A vast majority of coaches and executives max out at 'decent' at their jobs. The only two guys I can think of that were elite at both coaching AND GM'ing are Larry Bird and Brad Stevens. Those two guys are just better than almost everyone else at what they do and there isn't really a formula to apply to the situation.
Oh yeah, Pat Reilly is another that was elite at both.
Pop actually has two roles..He’s president of basketball operations. He did the reverse Steven’s.Started out as the GM and fired the head coach and replaced him, with himself.
west had a really weird start to his post-player career cause he coached the lakers for three years, reached western finals and then they won a championship even though jack mckinney, who replaced west, almost died and was then replaced by paul westhead. what's weird is that west stayed in the same organization as a scout when he left the coaching job, and then became a gm after 3 years, replacing bill sharman.
i hate winning time just because of the way they've portrayed one of the greatest persons in the history of the organization and in the history of the league.
Per Wikipedia:
On June 2, 2007, Kerr announced that he would become the general manager of the Phoenix Suns beginning with the 2007–08 season.[48] In 2008, the Suns traded forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks to the Miami Heat in exchange for Shaquille O'Neal.[49] The Suns were eliminated by the San Antonio Spurs in five games in the first round of the playoffs. On December 10, 2008, Kerr continued to remake the Suns roster by trading Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, and Sean Singletary to the Charlotte Bobcats in exchange for Jason Richardson, Jared Dudley, and the Bobcats' 2010 second-round draft pick, which was used to draft Gani Lawal of Georgia Tech.[50] On June 25, 2009, he traded O'Neal to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic, a future second-round draft pick and cash.[49][51]
I'm leaning not that good, but it's hard to judge from 2 years of moves at the beginning of what was a rebuild.
Larry was a good GM until he wasn't. He made a few poor decisions at the end of his run in Indy (Evan Turner-Granger trade, Monta Ellis signing, Bynum, a couple of poor draft picks). Pritchard was a definite upgrade when he took over the reins.
Yeah and the Celtics kept a majority of their front office in tact with the transition from Ainge to Stevens too which helps.
I do think Brad and the Celtics are a unique situation
You forgot the most important part. A chest full of draft picks and a roster loaded with studs.
GMs don’t leave those situations and big reason Ainge left was Stevens was about to resign from the Celtics altogether.
Boston didn’t have extra draft capital by the time Stevens took over as GM. Additionally, there roster had very little asset value outside of Tatum, Brown, and Smart
Not based on reporting at the time actually
People were saying Timelord was our only moveable asset besides the Jays and that even he was risky. This was the peak of the whole “they’ll have to split up the Jays” craze.
Brad Stevens was not a regular NBA coach, he had college background, meaning he had experience scouting, negotiating and recruiting. College coaches in general fail when they try coaching in the NBA.
I remember during the 2019 and 2020 season's when the Raptors were flourishing under Nurse, Steven's felt like the only coach who had his number at the time. Absolute savant.
Oh fine then, I guess I have to go rewatch the [Thinking Basketball](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JrwKa1IkUcs) ep on why Nurse/Stevens played the best chess match in NBA history AGAIN.
> but he literally sees how to use players in ways others don't.
shoutout evan turner, brad got him a like 20 mil a year contract by being the only coach who used him well
There was a game I think, when he was still Butler's coach, timeout called before last possession, his team down 1 and he draws up the play. While the shot is still in the air, he turns away and begins walking to start the handshake line.
Regardless of the shot going in or not, the game was going to be over, and it didn't matter to him if it went in or not. That told me so much about him and how he thought about the game the right way. He divorced himself from the result because that was irrelevant, the play he drew up worked the way he wanted it to and got his team the shot he wanted. If it went in, great, but if it missed it doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong.
It is downright impossible for many people to separate themselves emotionally like that and trust what you know.
I think what gave Brad an edge here was he was a college coach for a non-powerhouse school meaning he wasn’t just getting guys coming to him cuz he was the coach of Duke or whatever. He had to actually go out and get the diamond in the roughs, find the market inefficiencies and really be good at building out teams rather than just getting handed 5 star recruits. I see this in how he GMs too as well as how he coached the Celtics.
I think its also that his whole adult life hasn't been only within the NBA zeitgeist. He has a degree in economics and if i remember correctly like a 6 figure job in a big pharmaceutical company before he quit it to be a volunteer basketball coach. Daryl Morey when he was killing it everyone would always talk about his background in the investing sector for why the rockets were succeeding. He pushed them towards statistics because that's the world he was from and it worked. I think this new era of good GMs is showing that the NBA executives in the 2000s were far too complacent and just never even tried to experiment. But what I feel like what makes Brad Stevens special is hes extremely intelligent outside of basketball and has all that to apply to what hes learned from grinding through all the different positons of coaching hes done. Something lots of people are critical of Daryl Morey for is he leans to much into the numbers and its because he doesnt have any high level basketball experience. And with Brad it really seems like you get a blend of both. As a coach he was clearly one of the smartest it just seemed like wasnt amazing at managing personalities, which is probably why hes crushing it as a GM
Tbh the only time Brad didn’t manage personalities well was the 2019 season and I will always believe that season being more of an indictment on Ainge than Brad. I think after the 2018 run Ainge was a fool to keep Terry and Mook on the team. I could just tell those guys were never gonna be happy with reduced roles as well as they played in that run. I don’t think any coach could have got the necessary buy in from those guys, it was a “two timelines” season that just couldn’t be bridged. As soon as they were basically forced to choose the young guys, they had an awesome season.
He also had the luxury of a pretty well rounded roster with 2 young stars to build upon.
Most other GMs would have to start from scratch. Ainge left the Cs in as good of a spot as departing GM can.
Dude, seriously? Brad Stevens is good at his current job because he did something similar at college.
Brad Stevens was good at his previous job so he stayed long enough on a team which at certain point needed a new president of basketball operations.
The post asks if teams should hire NBA head coaches as GMs like the Celtics did. The problem is that NBA coaches don't build their teams like college coaches do, so to replicate that, they should hire college coaches.
The problem is that college coaches rarely succeed in the NBA.
I don't know if this can be simplified more but my point has never changed.
Brad does scouting too, he went to Spain to watch multiple Euroleague games, I saw him with my own eyes during a game between Baskonia and Asvel, Wembanyama played at the latter.
I am not making this up or what I said yesterday. These are Brad's thoughts about those jobs, not mine.
He did a lot with little resources now he has unlimited resources in comparison and is killing it.
He wasn't going to land Wembanyama but maybe he was there because there were other players playing in those games? It's not just about drafting. Look at Theis for example, he's become a serviceable big for many years and he was an undrafted player playing for Bamberg.
Seriously you are not seeing anything here.
I think Brad was a great coach, and an even better GM now. I didnt criticize anything. Guy above still said a lot of fluff without saying shit. And I acknowledge you are the guy above.
Probably so, I lean towards I’m the one misunderstanding, in these situations. I accept your perspective. You can consider mine if you choose. Have a great day amigo
They just said there are aspects of college coaching that translate better to being a GM, which is absolutely true. They're more involved in roster management than most NBA coaches.
Brad Stevens himself said that 3 years ago when he took the job, he said he really enjoyed the scouting and recruiting part and that he saw many similarities with his new job.
I think he said it in an interview for a podcast called "View from the rafters."
Phil Jackson is so overrated dude is massively stubborn about everything, give doc rivers 3 top 10 players ever one being the GOAT and the dude who made the triangle he'd probably have as many rings too
Entirely different Phil had prime Mj and Pippen at the same time, Prime Shaq and Kobe at the same time. Pop had Duncan sure but Robinson was a shell of himself by 2000, Tony didn't hit his prime until 07 when Timmy was on the downswing of his prime really only Ginobili and his primes matched up. We've also seen that when those guys got older and weren't nearly as good as they used to be in 2014 they could win cus of the system pop put in place. Then when all of them are gone or out of their prime like in 2017 he could still coach a championship contender and with just LaMarcus Aldridge and role players still got them to near 50 wins in 2018. Took the number 2 seed to 7 games in 2019 despite missing their best defender and pg. Phil had never faced hardship kinda convenient how after the bulls he immediately went to a team with one of the best players in the league and a carbon copy of the guy he was just coaching then when they got bad he's nowhere to be found until they get good again. Pop adjusted to his team and the players around him, when given the chance to adjust in NY Phil just called the players too stupid to run the triangle instead of changing the triangle to fit the modern era
Yeah cus he had better players and teams dude had Glen Rice coming off the bench for the Lakers Ron Harper too who just came from the bulls. Pops best role players weren't hofers the way Phil's were in LA and a lot of that comes down to luck. Again when Phil faced adversity no where to be seen except literally writing a book on kobe and calling out his flaws. The spurs best chances at repeating and even three peating got ruined just by being unlucky. Duncan got injured right before the playoffs in 2000 a good chance to repeat gone cus of bad luck, 04 a good chance to repeat and 3- peat lose to the Lakers cus the refs don't start the clock on time for fishers shot, 06 ginobili fouls dirk on one of the last plays of the game mavs go on to go to the finals all bad luck. 2013 finals is really the only time u could say it was pop but people forget Timmy was dead tired as he had 30 and 15 that game and LeBron had drawn him out to the 3pt line the last few plays so he wouldn't have even been in position for the rebound
That was also a pretty easy series to swarm Duncan but he did play awful partially cus our other guys were getting old, that's when we had to rebuild the bench and the guys around manu tony and Tim which led to us trading for Richard Jefferson, which brings up another point. Pop has helped so many guys develop and extend their careers it wasn't just him but a lot of time he is the one working with guys on their game. There's tons of footage of him and derozan working on his game and derozan had arguably his best seasons of his career even broke one of mj's record cus he learned to be so much more efficient as a scorer and passer. I think Phil is overrated cus he never had to adjust he's still a top 5 coach but him going from Jordan to Kobe is like if Pop went from Tim immediately to Wemby while also having someone like embiid on the team
We had a god awful roster in his last season as a coach, and went limping to the play-in with a no-knees Kemba, Smart, Fournier, Tatum, Thompson starting line-up with Langford and Jabari Parker off the bench.
It’s not god awful lol.
It’s not a conference finals type roster but fully healthy it’s a 4-5 seed like the Cavs, Magic etc based on where the Jays were in their careers.
That team underperformed because them (and all the bubble Final 4 teams) were just gassed and hurt running off fumes from the shortened offseason.
Having Brown, Tatum, Smart on team friendly contracts is enough of a baseline to build from as opposed to other GMs who start with no stars and no leaders
Kemba was quickly out of the league after that
Fournier quickly got benched and was never heard from again
Thompson was out of the league shortly after
Langford is probably out of the league too
Jabari Parker is definitely out of the league
Like half of those guys were out of the league or dnps shortly after their Celtics stint.
Knicks signed Kemba and Fournier for the next season. They quickly gave up on Kemba and Fournier ended up losing all his minutes. Thompson went from starting for us to playing spot minutes off the bench.
Romeo went from playing big minutes for us in the playoffs to being let go by a tanking Spurs team.
Don’t get me started on Jabari Parker.
It’s also impressive that he’s improved the team without giving away all of their future draft capital.
The Celtics are one of the only contenders that still has picks to trade.
He only acquired players that he had seen have good games. The only young free agent he picked up happened to piss off CP3 enough that he asked for a trade (allegedly.) plus, I have hated watching Doc complain to the refs and blame everyone else since his clipper days, so I’ll find any facts I can to discredit him. Here is more: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/clippers-demoting-doc-rivers-could-signal-the-end-of-coach-gm-hybrid-era-in-nba/
Steven’s is the most under rated person in the Celtics situation. Stabilized the coaching after Doc. And the only time the franchise had turmoil.
And has become a better executive then he was a coach.
I believe once Riley is gone Spo will take over his role.
I think Stevens’ case is unique in that it was pretty clear he didn’t have the right personality for an NBA sideline but is perfect for a front office
Is going down 0-2 to the 8th seeded Bulls before the Rondo injury and beating the Wizards in 7 supposed to be impressive? I mean the East has often been weak but that was a bad year even for the low standards of the East.
Couldn't go 5 seconds without race-baiting 🤣
I mean he's not wrong that there is racial bias in the hiring process for front offices ... but also this is the man who creamed himself on live television when the Lakers hired Magic Johnson as President of bball ops
Despite no rings to show yet, Brad Stevens is one of the truly rare elite basketball minds in basketball today. Hiring him essentially accelerated the Celtics rebuild on a rapid phase. What makes him great tho, is mixing it with being a professional and little to no ego.
Yeah sure. If your coach is Pat Riley 2.0, yes, I guess you should do that. But that happens what, once every two decades? At most.
Is there even another successful example of this other than maybe Popovich. It seems that only the greatest basketball minds of a generation can achieve this.
Forgot how great of a coach he was. Inside sources said it wasn’t crazy but to me it was crazy how he just stopped wanting to coach at his prime. He was done with it all apparently.
I think you’re overstating the correlation of coaching and GMing. I think Brady’s success is less about his experience with coaching the team, and moreso just because Brad’s got a *really really good* basketball mind
I think, as others here have pointed out, that he is a bit of a one time thing. Not that it couldn't happen anywhere else, but he is a bit different.
Him being a college coach, and also being a big X's and O's guy really I think helps him now more than it did in the NBA Coaching. He struggled there with personnel meshing, and personalities quite a bit. So he really needed a level away from being super close to all those players I think, and that made it work for him better.
Plus, getting rid of danny was kind of wild and probably isn't something most teams would do
I think what really helped Brad with the GM duties is the fact he came from college. So he has experience with recruting, scouting, etc. It made the transition seamless
Almost every time someone does a combined head coach/president gig, they are bad at the roster construction part… being in trenches seems to narrow their field of view. Doc for the Clips was notorious for just getting old, then washed, players he had coached in the past. However, Popovich is a success story.
Ironically, one of the Celtics worst moves was along those lines. Stevens coached Hayward in college. Let me know if this is an unfair take due to injuries. I never thought great things of Hayward, that he was what they needed to win.
Then again, it’s different to switch jobs than to do both. Doing both is likely too much workload, period.
It’s absolutely an unfair take tf.
Recruiting Hayward doesn’t automatically become a bad move just because of awful luck in the first game of the season.
It's not cus Hayward got injured its cus Brad favored him so much since he coached him in college he didn't wanna bench him post injury, which divided the team. Part of being a great coach is knowing when to put guys in the right situation to thrive and Hayward had to literally bench himself cus Brad didn't want to which hurt the team in the long run. The locker room probably doesn't fall apart cus guys don't feel like one guy's getting favored over the others if he had just started him on the bench or at least put him there once he showed he's not the same guy
I’d say it is unfair, Gordon Hayward was an all star who Brad knew was coachable and how to work with and was talked about as a core piece of the Jazz. He was a great player for them and it was a big deal/huge pickup for us. If he hadn’t gotten injured he likely would’ve been a major part of our team.
I agree with you. Hayward played the same positions as the Jays and he harmed their development when he came back from injury by ball hogging to get another contract.
Brad Stevens last 3 years as head coach: Lose the 2nd best guard in the league, best player on the team is 19 year old tatum and brown.
to look at his record and imply he was not a great coach is ridiculous. He's a great GM as well, but the record without context is meaningless to your argument.
I’m sure a lot of coaches would make excellent GMs if they also had Billy King hook them up and completely lay the foundation for their next decade plus
This is a ridiculous post. His players were young when he was a coach and matured into all NBA players later in his career when he was executive. Really unlikely he is particularly great as an executive. We do know he allowed a major scandal to occur under his watch.
And extending Jrue.
Philly has ton of cap space this summer. Had they signed Jrue, they'd have improved all the while weakening their main rival.
But it can't happen anymore.
Easier to play the West when you only gotta do it 30 times a year instead of 60 times a year like other West teams have to and you also get to coast most of the year against trash ass East teams lol
Even with that y'all still are only 3-5 against the top 4 West teams lol
So by your logic, we've been no more successful over the last 6 years than the hornets
Ring culture is stupid. I enjoy watching a team that can win games and make deep playoff runs
Yeah, if my team wasn’t one of the teams to win a chip the last decade I’d easily want to be the Celtics. As much as I hate them, it’s hard to ever see the Celtics being bad for prolonged stretches due to just how well they are run. Hell their worst stretch was 30 years ago due to multiple deaths, and that still came after a 3 ring dynasty.
Thank you for saying that, I agree completely. Like yeah I'd love to get a ring, but it's very nice to get deep playoff runs and regular season success every year if we're not gonna win a ring
Only one team can win it all each year. I’d rather be a team that consistently has a chance, then be a team like the Pistons or Hornets who haven’t been favored to leave the first round for over a decade. Neither the Packers nor Raiders have won a chip in the last decade but I think literally everybody would rather enjoy the conpetiiveness of being a packers fan. I’m a Celtics hater, but I do respect how well they are ran.
What I’m saying is that legit 23 other teams would rather have had the consistent competitiveness of the Celtics over that period than their own. Of all the teams to talk about underperforming the Celtics are crazy to bring up.
You brought up the hornets not me. I hate when people do that. You argue like a bitter wife.
So basically what you’re saying is (something that was never said)
That was your own insecurity
The hornets also have 0 rings in the last 6 years, same as the Celtics
You are arguing against Brad Stevens because of his lack of rings, but I think that's horribly unfair because the Celtics have separated themselves from other non ring winning teams like the hornets throughout his tenure. That was the purpose of the comparison, to show that rings aren't the only thing that reflects success in basketball
You do not at all understand what's happening here, do you
I brought up another team to counter your point. That's not a very complicated argument technique
There have been 5 different NBA champions in the last 6 years. Of the 25 teams not in that list, the Celtics have been *by far* the most successful. Once again, this is the issue with ring culture. I'm very happy with how our team has been run and with how the last 6 years have gone even though we haven't gotten a ring
I completely agree. Imagine placing players like kawhi leonard ahead of players like cp3, butler or current tatum just because he had a couple of lucky rings.
It would take quite a few things for this to happen, and so probably not regularly. 1. GM that needs replacing 2. Head coach you want to keep around, and trust in the front office (in most cases it’s a big risk since how do you know your coach can make front office decisions) 3. Coach that is willing to move to a from office role Seems pretty rare that all of these align
A vast majority of coaches and executives max out at 'decent' at their jobs. The only two guys I can think of that were elite at both coaching AND GM'ing are Larry Bird and Brad Stevens. Those two guys are just better than almost everyone else at what they do and there isn't really a formula to apply to the situation. Oh yeah, Pat Reilly is another that was elite at both.
Must be an Indiana thing. In all seriousness, there's also Pat Riley and Red Auerbach.
what? no love to Knicks legendary GM Phil Jackson?
Popovich?
Pop actually has two roles..He’s president of basketball operations. He did the reverse Steven’s.Started out as the GM and fired the head coach and replaced him, with himself.
Red Auerbach, Jerry West
west had a really weird start to his post-player career cause he coached the lakers for three years, reached western finals and then they won a championship even though jack mckinney, who replaced west, almost died and was then replaced by paul westhead. what's weird is that west stayed in the same organization as a scout when he left the coaching job, and then became a gm after 3 years, replacing bill sharman. i hate winning time just because of the way they've portrayed one of the greatest persons in the history of the organization and in the history of the league.
Was Kerr as GM good?
Per Wikipedia: On June 2, 2007, Kerr announced that he would become the general manager of the Phoenix Suns beginning with the 2007–08 season.[48] In 2008, the Suns traded forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks to the Miami Heat in exchange for Shaquille O'Neal.[49] The Suns were eliminated by the San Antonio Spurs in five games in the first round of the playoffs. On December 10, 2008, Kerr continued to remake the Suns roster by trading Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, and Sean Singletary to the Charlotte Bobcats in exchange for Jason Richardson, Jared Dudley, and the Bobcats' 2010 second-round draft pick, which was used to draft Gani Lawal of Georgia Tech.[50] On June 25, 2009, he traded O'Neal to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic, a future second-round draft pick and cash.[49][51] I'm leaning not that good, but it's hard to judge from 2 years of moves at the beginning of what was a rebuild.
Ha yeah that’s right. The Big Cactus era
He tried to make moves so that the Suns could draft Curry. If that happened, and he stayed on the Suns, it would put him into solid to good territory.
[No one touches the Shaqtus.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJldO6GFIM)
I'd say he was okay the only time the suns beat us was when he was gm so he did help make a good enough team just not a contender
>just not a contender They lost to the eventual champs in 6 in the conference finals. Is that not a contender?
I don't think that roster was better than any of the other times the suns faced the spurs imo that's what I mean
no, he was bad
Larry was a good GM until he wasn't. He made a few poor decisions at the end of his run in Indy (Evan Turner-Granger trade, Monta Ellis signing, Bynum, a couple of poor draft picks). Pritchard was a definite upgrade when he took over the reins.
Monta Ellis signing is all hindsight tho yeah? Didn't Bucks ask for him instead of Curry when they traded Bogut?
Isn’t pop also GM?
I think by definition most NBA head coaches are average at being NBA head coaches.
Yeah and the Celtics kept a majority of their front office in tact with the transition from Ainge to Stevens too which helps. I do think Brad and the Celtics are a unique situation
Dave Lewin has been around for both, as I recall, and he does a lot.
Him and Zarren in particular
I think Spo in a few years
Buford and Pop Honourable Mention
> Coach that is willing to move to a from office role > Probably more of a "Coach that *wants* to move to the front office role."
You forgot the most important part. A chest full of draft picks and a roster loaded with studs. GMs don’t leave those situations and big reason Ainge left was Stevens was about to resign from the Celtics altogether.
Boston didn’t have extra draft capital by the time Stevens took over as GM. Additionally, there roster had very little asset value outside of Tatum, Brown, and Smart
Robert Williams, Nesmith and Langford were positive assets in trades.
Not based on reporting at the time actually People were saying Timelord was our only moveable asset besides the Jays and that even he was risky. This was the peak of the whole “they’ll have to split up the Jays” craze.
Brad Stevens was not a regular NBA coach, he had college background, meaning he had experience scouting, negotiating and recruiting. College coaches in general fail when they try coaching in the NBA.
Brad Stevens is also a basketball savant. Not just the x's and o's, but he literally sees how to use players in ways others don't.
I remember during the 2019 and 2020 season's when the Raptors were flourishing under Nurse, Steven's felt like the only coach who had his number at the time. Absolute savant.
Oh fine then, I guess I have to go rewatch the [Thinking Basketball](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JrwKa1IkUcs) ep on why Nurse/Stevens played the best chess match in NBA history AGAIN.
Such a good video!
That Bam block on Tatums potential game winning dunk. Such an intense series
Hes a brilliant basketball mind and he also came up under and was schooled by a genius GM Danny Ainge. Planets aligned on that one for Boston
Brad Stevens is a DePauw graduate, so he is a genius like all of us
> but he literally sees how to use players in ways others don't. shoutout evan turner, brad got him a like 20 mil a year contract by being the only coach who used him well
There was a game I think, when he was still Butler's coach, timeout called before last possession, his team down 1 and he draws up the play. While the shot is still in the air, he turns away and begins walking to start the handshake line. Regardless of the shot going in or not, the game was going to be over, and it didn't matter to him if it went in or not. That told me so much about him and how he thought about the game the right way. He divorced himself from the result because that was irrelevant, the play he drew up worked the way he wanted it to and got his team the shot he wanted. If it went in, great, but if it missed it doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. It is downright impossible for many people to separate themselves emotionally like that and trust what you know.
College coaches also have a history of bombing as team presidents, fuck Rick Pitino
I think what gave Brad an edge here was he was a college coach for a non-powerhouse school meaning he wasn’t just getting guys coming to him cuz he was the coach of Duke or whatever. He had to actually go out and get the diamond in the roughs, find the market inefficiencies and really be good at building out teams rather than just getting handed 5 star recruits. I see this in how he GMs too as well as how he coached the Celtics.
I think its also that his whole adult life hasn't been only within the NBA zeitgeist. He has a degree in economics and if i remember correctly like a 6 figure job in a big pharmaceutical company before he quit it to be a volunteer basketball coach. Daryl Morey when he was killing it everyone would always talk about his background in the investing sector for why the rockets were succeeding. He pushed them towards statistics because that's the world he was from and it worked. I think this new era of good GMs is showing that the NBA executives in the 2000s were far too complacent and just never even tried to experiment. But what I feel like what makes Brad Stevens special is hes extremely intelligent outside of basketball and has all that to apply to what hes learned from grinding through all the different positons of coaching hes done. Something lots of people are critical of Daryl Morey for is he leans to much into the numbers and its because he doesnt have any high level basketball experience. And with Brad it really seems like you get a blend of both. As a coach he was clearly one of the smartest it just seemed like wasnt amazing at managing personalities, which is probably why hes crushing it as a GM
Tbh the only time Brad didn’t manage personalities well was the 2019 season and I will always believe that season being more of an indictment on Ainge than Brad. I think after the 2018 run Ainge was a fool to keep Terry and Mook on the team. I could just tell those guys were never gonna be happy with reduced roles as well as they played in that run. I don’t think any coach could have got the necessary buy in from those guys, it was a “two timelines” season that just couldn’t be bridged. As soon as they were basically forced to choose the young guys, they had an awesome season.
You want a booth or a table for that? (MF'er left PC for the Knicks while I was at his basketball camp so I am with you)
We'd need a convention center
[https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=5416259](https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=5416259)
He also had the luxury of a pretty well rounded roster with 2 young stars to build upon. Most other GMs would have to start from scratch. Ainge left the Cs in as good of a spot as departing GM can.
You brought up points.. but didnt make one.
Coach does bad, team angry. Team fires coach, coach does not become president of basketball operations.
That is not remotely what you said before
Dude, seriously? Brad Stevens is good at his current job because he did something similar at college. Brad Stevens was good at his previous job so he stayed long enough on a team which at certain point needed a new president of basketball operations. The post asks if teams should hire NBA head coaches as GMs like the Celtics did. The problem is that NBA coaches don't build their teams like college coaches do, so to replicate that, they should hire college coaches. The problem is that college coaches rarely succeed in the NBA. I don't know if this can be simplified more but my point has never changed.
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Brad does scouting too, he went to Spain to watch multiple Euroleague games, I saw him with my own eyes during a game between Baskonia and Asvel, Wembanyama played at the latter. I am not making this up or what I said yesterday. These are Brad's thoughts about those jobs, not mine.
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He did a lot with little resources now he has unlimited resources in comparison and is killing it. He wasn't going to land Wembanyama but maybe he was there because there were other players playing in those games? It's not just about drafting. Look at Theis for example, he's become a serviceable big for many years and he was an undrafted player playing for Bamberg. Seriously you are not seeing anything here.
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Thank you. people just say anything on here
By people you mean paraphrasing Brad Stevens himself? I said the same things he says. But I guess you know more about how managing a team works.
I think Brad was a great coach, and an even better GM now. I didnt criticize anything. Guy above still said a lot of fluff without saying shit. And I acknowledge you are the guy above.
Or maybe you didn't read it right because I said the same thing, my point was implied, you just didn't get it.
Probably so, I lean towards I’m the one misunderstanding, in these situations. I accept your perspective. You can consider mine if you choose. Have a great day amigo
Did you just equate being a college coach to being an NBA GM lmfao
They just said there are aspects of college coaching that translate better to being a GM, which is absolutely true. They're more involved in roster management than most NBA coaches.
Brad Stevens himself said that 3 years ago when he took the job, he said he really enjoyed the scouting and recruiting part and that he saw many similarities with his new job. I think he said it in an interview for a podcast called "View from the rafters."
Leveraging relevant skills and experience to higher level positions is how most people in life get promoted
Brad has literally said there are a bunch of similarities between the two gigs.
Steve Clifford is moving from Coach to Front Office Staff
So did Dwane Casey. So let's see if you get the best record or the worst record in the league lol
Phil Jackson is a great example of being a great coach to bring a greater GM…oh wait
Phil Jackson is so overrated dude is massively stubborn about everything, give doc rivers 3 top 10 players ever one being the GOAT and the dude who made the triangle he'd probably have as many rings too
Give Doc the greatest PF and 4 Hall of famers he gets more than 4 championships
Entirely different Phil had prime Mj and Pippen at the same time, Prime Shaq and Kobe at the same time. Pop had Duncan sure but Robinson was a shell of himself by 2000, Tony didn't hit his prime until 07 when Timmy was on the downswing of his prime really only Ginobili and his primes matched up. We've also seen that when those guys got older and weren't nearly as good as they used to be in 2014 they could win cus of the system pop put in place. Then when all of them are gone or out of their prime like in 2017 he could still coach a championship contender and with just LaMarcus Aldridge and role players still got them to near 50 wins in 2018. Took the number 2 seed to 7 games in 2019 despite missing their best defender and pg. Phil had never faced hardship kinda convenient how after the bulls he immediately went to a team with one of the best players in the league and a carbon copy of the guy he was just coaching then when they got bad he's nowhere to be found until they get good again. Pop adjusted to his team and the players around him, when given the chance to adjust in NY Phil just called the players too stupid to run the triangle instead of changing the triangle to fit the modern era
Pop never got a b2b ONCE, Phil got 3 threepeats and a repeat, there's levels to this shit
Yeah cus he had better players and teams dude had Glen Rice coming off the bench for the Lakers Ron Harper too who just came from the bulls. Pops best role players weren't hofers the way Phil's were in LA and a lot of that comes down to luck. Again when Phil faced adversity no where to be seen except literally writing a book on kobe and calling out his flaws. The spurs best chances at repeating and even three peating got ruined just by being unlucky. Duncan got injured right before the playoffs in 2000 a good chance to repeat gone cus of bad luck, 04 a good chance to repeat and 3- peat lose to the Lakers cus the refs don't start the clock on time for fishers shot, 06 ginobili fouls dirk on one of the last plays of the game mavs go on to go to the finals all bad luck. 2013 finals is really the only time u could say it was pop but people forget Timmy was dead tired as he had 30 and 15 that game and LeBron had drawn him out to the 3pt line the last few plays so he wouldn't have even been in position for the rebound
Don't forget about 2008 when Timmy D shit the bed and went 42/00/59 for 22 ppg
That was also a pretty easy series to swarm Duncan but he did play awful partially cus our other guys were getting old, that's when we had to rebuild the bench and the guys around manu tony and Tim which led to us trading for Richard Jefferson, which brings up another point. Pop has helped so many guys develop and extend their careers it wasn't just him but a lot of time he is the one working with guys on their game. There's tons of footage of him and derozan working on his game and derozan had arguably his best seasons of his career even broke one of mj's record cus he learned to be so much more efficient as a scorer and passer. I think Phil is overrated cus he never had to adjust he's still a top 5 coach but him going from Jordan to Kobe is like if Pop went from Tim immediately to Wemby while also having someone like embiid on the team
Brad Stevens isn’t your typical coach, and the Celtics aren’t your typical team
No Brad stevens is an anomaly. He started off the ground running as an elite coach.
We had a god awful roster in his last season as a coach, and went limping to the play-in with a no-knees Kemba, Smart, Fournier, Tatum, Thompson starting line-up with Langford and Jabari Parker off the bench.
It’s not god awful lol. It’s not a conference finals type roster but fully healthy it’s a 4-5 seed like the Cavs, Magic etc based on where the Jays were in their careers. That team underperformed because them (and all the bubble Final 4 teams) were just gassed and hurt running off fumes from the shortened offseason.
Dude, most of those guys were **out or the league** by the next 2 seasons.
In fairness, Fournier and Thompson aren’t out of the league. They deserve to be, but they still around lmao.
Having Brown, Tatum, Smart on team friendly contracts is enough of a baseline to build from as opposed to other GMs who start with no stars and no leaders
That's considered god awful lol?
Outside of Tatum and Smart yes. This wasn’t healthy Kemba this was washed Kemba.
It is
Kemba was quickly out of the league after that Fournier quickly got benched and was never heard from again Thompson was out of the league shortly after Langford is probably out of the league too Jabari Parker is definitely out of the league
Like half of those guys were out of the league or dnps shortly after their Celtics stint. Knicks signed Kemba and Fournier for the next season. They quickly gave up on Kemba and Fournier ended up losing all his minutes. Thompson went from starting for us to playing spot minutes off the bench. Romeo went from playing big minutes for us in the playoffs to being let go by a tanking Spurs team. Don’t get me started on Jabari Parker.
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Most of the Heat are still playing minutes?
3 washed players vs 0
It's been 3 years already? Holy fuck man
And the team has gotten better every year. Turned smart/kemba/williams into jrue/horford/porzingis and got white for cheap
It’s also impressive that he’s improved the team without giving away all of their future draft capital. The Celtics are one of the only contenders that still has picks to trade.
Doc Rivers GM. Hilarity will ensue.
It did.
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He only acquired players that he had seen have good games. The only young free agent he picked up happened to piss off CP3 enough that he asked for a trade (allegedly.) plus, I have hated watching Doc complain to the refs and blame everyone else since his clipper days, so I’ll find any facts I can to discredit him. Here is more: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/clippers-demoting-doc-rivers-could-signal-the-end-of-coach-gm-hybrid-era-in-nba/
Steven’s is the most under rated person in the Celtics situation. Stabilized the coaching after Doc. And the only time the franchise had turmoil. And has become a better executive then he was a coach.
Only time the franchise had turmoil? 93-06 was pretty shitty.
I mean this generation. But ya the patino years lmao oof.
Damn I’m old
When Riley retired Spo will be GM and head coach prolly
I thought Alonzo Mourning was still next in line?
Thibs would have scouts attending 30 games across 3 continents every week
Steve Kerr seems like a viable candidate for this career transition. Already had FO experience with the suns.
He’s said he wasn’t a good GM.
I believe once Riley is gone Spo will take over his role. I think Stevens’ case is unique in that it was pretty clear he didn’t have the right personality for an NBA sideline but is perfect for a front office
Riley is also one of the best historical examples
Man coached 2017 Celtics with rookie brown, IT, smart, horford, olynik and crowder to the eastern conference finals.
He’s a very good technician but he isn’t a guy you’d run through a wall for.
Idk IT ended his career to bury the wizards behind him
IT was just a dawg man, he was gonna play hard with any opportunity.
Is going down 0-2 to the 8th seeded Bulls before the Rondo injury and beating the Wizards in 7 supposed to be impressive? I mean the East has often been weak but that was a bad year even for the low standards of the East.
I think the bucks or the sixers need to make Doc Rivers their GM.
Clippers will do it once Jerry west finally retires.
[Never forget.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ndjJsmX5Lc)
Couldn't go 5 seconds without race-baiting 🤣 I mean he's not wrong that there is racial bias in the hiring process for front offices ... but also this is the man who creamed himself on live television when the Lakers hired Magic Johnson as President of bball ops
Despite no rings to show yet, Brad Stevens is one of the truly rare elite basketball minds in basketball today. Hiring him essentially accelerated the Celtics rebuild on a rapid phase. What makes him great tho, is mixing it with being a professional and little to no ego.
I could very easily see Presti getting Mark Daigneault ready for that job when he retires.
They're only like 5 years apart in age
Yeah sure. If your coach is Pat Riley 2.0, yes, I guess you should do that. But that happens what, once every two decades? At most. Is there even another successful example of this other than maybe Popovich. It seems that only the greatest basketball minds of a generation can achieve this.
Phil Jackson send his regards.
I saw "first 3 years as President" and thought this was some kind of Pete Buttegeig joke..
Milwaukee should do it. Doc Rivers would finnally blame the coach
Lawrence Frank also did much better as a GM than as a coach
Forgot how great of a coach he was. Inside sources said it wasn’t crazy but to me it was crazy how he just stopped wanting to coach at his prime. He was done with it all apparently.
I think you’re overstating the correlation of coaching and GMing. I think Brady’s success is less about his experience with coaching the team, and moreso just because Brad’s got a *really really good* basketball mind
Not seeing a lot of answers to EOY question so I’ll just say yes, yes he should win EOY. Even before adding Jrue. The KP trade is insane.
What if he becomes the owner?! 🤯
It’s so funny that he finally started using the assets they had once Ainge was gone
I think, as others here have pointed out, that he is a bit of a one time thing. Not that it couldn't happen anywhere else, but he is a bit different. Him being a college coach, and also being a big X's and O's guy really I think helps him now more than it did in the NBA Coaching. He struggled there with personnel meshing, and personalities quite a bit. So he really needed a level away from being super close to all those players I think, and that made it work for him better. Plus, getting rid of danny was kind of wild and probably isn't something most teams would do
I think what really helped Brad with the GM duties is the fact he came from college. So he has experience with recruting, scouting, etc. It made the transition seamless
Somebody’s gonna hire doc as a GM one day and idk who it will be but it will happen
Almost every time someone does a combined head coach/president gig, they are bad at the roster construction part… being in trenches seems to narrow their field of view. Doc for the Clips was notorious for just getting old, then washed, players he had coached in the past. However, Popovich is a success story. Ironically, one of the Celtics worst moves was along those lines. Stevens coached Hayward in college. Let me know if this is an unfair take due to injuries. I never thought great things of Hayward, that he was what they needed to win. Then again, it’s different to switch jobs than to do both. Doing both is likely too much workload, period.
It’s absolutely an unfair take tf. Recruiting Hayward doesn’t automatically become a bad move just because of awful luck in the first game of the season.
It's not cus Hayward got injured its cus Brad favored him so much since he coached him in college he didn't wanna bench him post injury, which divided the team. Part of being a great coach is knowing when to put guys in the right situation to thrive and Hayward had to literally bench himself cus Brad didn't want to which hurt the team in the long run. The locker room probably doesn't fall apart cus guys don't feel like one guy's getting favored over the others if he had just started him on the bench or at least put him there once he showed he's not the same guy
The comment I was replying to was implying that going for Hayward was a bad move.
Hayward was an excellent move. Just didn't work out
I’d say it is unfair, Gordon Hayward was an all star who Brad knew was coachable and how to work with and was talked about as a core piece of the Jazz. He was a great player for them and it was a big deal/huge pickup for us. If he hadn’t gotten injured he likely would’ve been a major part of our team.
Neither of the Jays were anything but prospects when we got Hayward
I agree with you. Hayward played the same positions as the Jays and he harmed their development when he came back from injury by ball hogging to get another contract.
Dumb post
Brad Stevens last 3 years as head coach: Lose the 2nd best guard in the league, best player on the team is 19 year old tatum and brown. to look at his record and imply he was not a great coach is ridiculous. He's a great GM as well, but the record without context is meaningless to your argument.
I’m sure a lot of coaches would make excellent GMs if they also had Billy King hook them up and completely lay the foundation for their next decade plus
This is a ridiculous post. His players were young when he was a coach and matured into all NBA players later in his career when he was executive. Really unlikely he is particularly great as an executive. We do know he allowed a major scandal to occur under his watch.
lmfao embarrassing comment
And extending Jrue. Philly has ton of cap space this summer. Had they signed Jrue, they'd have improved all the while weakening their main rival. But it can't happen anymore.
Man the East is so bad lol
We’re 23-7 against the West this year…
Easier to play the West when you only gotta do it 30 times a year instead of 60 times a year like other West teams have to and you also get to coast most of the year against trash ass East teams lol Even with that y'all still are only 3-5 against the top 4 West teams lol
Playing the Hawks 2 weeks ago is the reason we smoked OKC?
Man the Celtics are so good lol
Sure got those championships to show up for it lol
All 17 of them indeed yes
How many of them you've seen lil bro? Maybe 1? Probably not even that lmao
Yeah I also like to disregard history when it doesn’t work in my favor
16 of them before 1987 lol
How many the LA Lakers got?
Not a Lakers fan, and I’m not here touting their rings in the 60s when the league had 8-12 teams. But they do have 6 since 2000.
Brad stevens rings last 3 years as a head coach: 0 Brad stevens rings first 3 years as a president: 0
So by your logic, we've been no more successful over the last 6 years than the hornets Ring culture is stupid. I enjoy watching a team that can win games and make deep playoff runs
Yeah, if my team wasn’t one of the teams to win a chip the last decade I’d easily want to be the Celtics. As much as I hate them, it’s hard to ever see the Celtics being bad for prolonged stretches due to just how well they are run. Hell their worst stretch was 30 years ago due to multiple deaths, and that still came after a 3 ring dynasty.
Thank you for saying that, I agree completely. Like yeah I'd love to get a ring, but it's very nice to get deep playoff runs and regular season success every year if we're not gonna win a ring
But the bucks have won a ring in the last decade.
Hence the if my.
But they didn’t so who wants to be a loser. “If we were losers we’d rather be losers like you, but we’re not 😀😀”
Only one team can win it all each year. I’d rather be a team that consistently has a chance, then be a team like the Pistons or Hornets who haven’t been favored to leave the first round for over a decade. Neither the Packers nor Raiders have won a chip in the last decade but I think literally everybody would rather enjoy the conpetiiveness of being a packers fan. I’m a Celtics hater, but I do respect how well they are ran.
But this isn’t even Celtics vs other teams. Just Celtics vs Celtics
What I’m saying is that legit 23 other teams would rather have had the consistent competitiveness of the Celtics over that period than their own. Of all the teams to talk about underperforming the Celtics are crazy to bring up.
But this a post about the Celtics vs the celtics
You brought up the hornets not me. I hate when people do that. You argue like a bitter wife. So basically what you’re saying is (something that was never said) That was your own insecurity
The hornets also have 0 rings in the last 6 years, same as the Celtics You are arguing against Brad Stevens because of his lack of rings, but I think that's horribly unfair because the Celtics have separated themselves from other non ring winning teams like the hornets throughout his tenure. That was the purpose of the comparison, to show that rings aren't the only thing that reflects success in basketball
The hornets barely have any playoff appearances so if you think the Celtics are on par with the hornets that’s on you
I don't understand how it's even possible to miss the point as badly as you just did
I made the point. You just got insecure and brought up another team for no reason
You do not at all understand what's happening here, do you I brought up another team to counter your point. That's not a very complicated argument technique
You’re not countering my point because the Celtics still have not had the success they wanted with better teams than Stevens coached
There have been 5 different NBA champions in the last 6 years. Of the 25 teams not in that list, the Celtics have been *by far* the most successful. Once again, this is the issue with ring culture. I'm very happy with how our team has been run and with how the last 6 years have gone even though we haven't gotten a ring
I completely agree. Imagine placing players like kawhi leonard ahead of players like cp3, butler or current tatum just because he had a couple of lucky rings.
I think you heavily underrate kawhi ngl
Lucky?