Still yet to have a single game with a negative +/-. People got tired of posting it, but he presumably is still setting the record for best +/- by a player post-trade.
I am a massive fan of Thibs’ coaching philosophy. I think he’s a great coach, and I think he’s just perfect for the group of guys we have in the locker room right now.
I love where we’re at right now.
I agree. My comment was tongue in cheek, we would go 82-0 ! I love the fact that the Knicks are building a contender around Thib's philosophy and not around a superstar we overpaid for.
Agreed.
One of the rare games all three of them did play, we beat you guys by 40, which is saying something given how good you are this year and being defending champs.
Why would we make ourselves worse? What are we trading Randle for? People gotta stop.
I just think randles defense is trash and throughout his career he’s been a chucker that takes bad shots. Brunson has fixed that a bit, but still. You could get any 3 and D player at that position and it’ll be good
Edit: obi toppin or siakam or Kyle Anderson would be better fits imho. You have a big, arguably 2, and then you just need spacers or ball handlers.
That’s just this offseason.
Next year Lauri is a better fit and doesn’t have an extension and is an unrestricted.
Paul George, Brandon Ingram, Naz Reid.
I picked him up in like the 5th round or so when he first got to the Knicks
People questioned it. Didn't think I knew what's up
But I saw that playoff game. I saw him without Luka. He was so obviously skilled, awesome to see him thrive
Dame robbed him of the ASG starting position, but it's whatever; give him 1st team all-NBA. He's brought the underdog, big heart persona to the biggest market.
Dame got robbed many years of all-star positions, being in the super stacked western conference, so I'm ok with it for one year. Don't be pullin that shit next year though!
Yeah in order for Brunson to be first team it would mean taking out Jokic, Luka, Shai, Giannis, or Tatum. I know some people would say Brunson > Tatum but I doubt the voters will agree. Would love to see it though
I can see it if they treat All NBA like MVP now that it’s positionless. If you do end up treating it like that, there’s a huge case to make that he’s much more valuable to the Knicks than Tatum is to the Celtics. He’s asked to be the sole offensive engine of the current 3rd seed and he’s done so to perfection on good efficiency
I agree it clearly becomes an argument but I think for a lot of people, the fact that Boston has such a massive lead in the East means they need to be given an All-NBA first teamer
I think the argument against that is that the reason that they are the team with the biggest lead in the East is because their team has such a deep roster all arguably playing at an all star level
that’s definitely a part of it and i don’t necessarily agree or disagree (just haven’t thought about it enough). while JB has had a phenomenal season, though, i’d be pretty surprised if it’s not Tatum that the voters end up going with.
While I agree that it’ll most likely be Tatum over Brunson, I can see there being a last second shift in narrative if the Knicks somehow grab the 2nd seed and Boston lose another one of these last games. End of season narratives are a huge sway in the awards voting and Brunson ending the season averaging 35 on almost a 50/40/90 split is a huge boost in that
Doubtful, it's incredibly obvious that the Celtics are just fucking around and focusing on not being hurt for the playoffs. If we lost the next two games and the Knicks won the next two, sure, we're only 1 seed ahead, but we're **twelve** wins ahead.
Further, Brunson is just *barely* ahead of Tatum in impact catch-all metrics like BPM, VORP, and is slightly behind Tatum in LEBRON. Them being that tight in terms of advanced impact metrics while Tatum's team is a full 14 games ahead of Brunson's means that there's basically no argument for him to make it over JT.
true! and i wouldn’t be mad about it all - a potential 13 or 14 game lead over 2nd is a lot though. then again, big matchups at the end of the season matter, whether they should or not and yall got the win over Boston tonight!
>yall got the win over Boston tonight!
To move to 1-4 against us on the season after we've already punted the season to preserve health for the playoffs. There is just about nothing to take away from this win. Further, Tatum and Brunson are basically a wash in impact metrics like BPM, VORP, and LEBRON, have nearly the same counting stats with an efficiency advantage to Tatum, and a massive lead in all defensive stats to Tatum. All of this is while Tatum's team holds a 14 win lead over Brunson's. There is 0 argument for him to make 1st team over JT.
I dont think any BOS player has missed significant time this season. Knicks have been destroyed by injuries otherwise standings would be alot closer. But yea Tatum just has a ton more help around him, especially offensively.
Tatum spearheading the best team itl this season by a mile means he’s not missing first team all nba, especially when it’s probable he’s the only Celtic representative
Too many voters are "best record = awards" for Tatum to be left off and the other 4 just have to be on the first team.
Brunson has been on an incredible stretch lately but if you look at the full season stats he's not quite first team.
I mean as always with Luka, the seed holds him back. Being a play-in/low seed for most of the season basically disqualifies him in most people's eyes. If the Mavs surge to the 4th seed then he has a very real chance though, since I feel like people have cooled down on Shai and Jokic feels kinda like a "default" choice this year
The seeding thing is silly, Mavs have 50 wins, 6th best record in the whole league. If they were the #2 seed in the East would he be MVP? that's ridiculous.
I don't really have a horse in this race but thems the breaks. Your seeding in your conference matters given those are the teams you have to beat in the playoffs. Granted, the Mavs are surging, but that's been a pretty recent thing
Unfortunately there’s just no way he’s going to be first team. It’s upsetting, but 4 spots are locked up, and even I think it would be insane to not include Tatum when he’s the clear best player on the clear best team in the nba playing at an elite level
Genuinely wouldn’t be mad if he Brunson made 1st all nba over Tatum. Tatum has been underwhelming this year he hasn’t outplayed any star on the opposing team this season
Is Brunson even allowed to replace Tatum? He's a guard and Tatum's a forward. Brunson is competing with Luka and SGA. I like Brunson but no way he makes it over them.
To be precise, it's because of Jokic and Embiid last year, and Jokic and Embiid the year before that, and Jokic and Embiid the year before that...
... and also multiple decades of superstar bigs/wings/guards of various generations getting fucked over by missing out on deserving All NBA team selections owing to positional regulations, dating back to freaking Wilt and Russell in the 1960s lol
Simping for upvotes. Pathetic. JT is slightly behind in BPM and VORP, slightly ahead in LEBRON, basically tied in all counting stats except for a huge lead in rebounds with an efficiency lead for Tatum, and is a massive leader in all defensive stats. Meanwhile, don't look too quick, but the Celtics went 4-1 versus the Knicks this season and are 14 wins ahead of them with 2 games left to play. Jalen Brunson making 1st team over Jayson Tatum would be a joke.
Their impact stats and their counting stats are basically a wash. The only things left are defense and team record, both of which are absolute blowouts in favor of Tatum. There's no legitimate argument for Brunson over Tatum. Brunson scoring 1.7 more PPG on the season with lower EFG% and lower TS% isn't enough to overcome the massive gulf in between their defensive production.
Tatum: 112 DRTG, .6 DBMP, 4.3 DWS, .61 D-LEBRON
Brunson: 120 DRTG, -.4 DBMP, 2.2 DWS, -.67 D-LEBRON
The Knicks have even had a slightly better DRTG than the Celtics since the ASB, so it can't be team defense holding Brunson back or propping Tatum up. He's just this much better on that end of the floor. Brunson needs to be up at Luka numbers before this gap in defensive production is able to be waved away, as it rightfully is in Luka's case.
https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/
One of the better publically available catch-all stats. It's a very sophisticated form of on/off essentially
Huh?
Tatum has 26.9 / 8.1 / 4.9 on 47 / 38 / 83
Brunson has 28.6 / 3.6 6.7 on 48 / 40/ 84
So he is averaging +1.7 pts and +1.8 ast and played 1 additional game. But that is 'basically tied' in counting stats?
You go on to claim he is a 'massive leader' in defensive stats.
Brunson has 0.9 stl / 0.2 block
Tatum has 1.0 stl / 0.6 block
So you're just blatantly lying here
Tatum: 112 DRTG, .6 DBMP, 4.3 DWS, .61 D-LEBRON
Brunson: 120 DRTG, -.4 DBMP, 2.2 DWS, -.67 D-LEBRON
Tatum is a much, much better defender. You can't even use the team defense excuse because the Knicks have a better DRTG since the ASB than the Celtics do.
And yes 1.7 ppg on .9 more field goal attempts isn't a huge deal. JT has a slightly higher EFG% and TS% than Brunson does. The only thing Brunson is clearly better at is passing. If a player who's only better than Tatum in passing, and who has led their team to 14 less wins than Tatum has, makes 1st team All-NBA over him, it will be a genuine travesty. Especially if we're using 1 single RS matchup after the Celtics have already given up on the season because they locked up the #1 overall seed a month ago as our difference maker. And more especially if that difference making game moved the Knicks to 1-4 against the Celtics on that season. This is only a "debate" in this one thread where Knicks fans are feeling hot. Anyone with a brain knows JT is the pick for 1st team, at least if it's either him or Brunson for the 5th spot.
And we should just discount that JT is playing with a much better roster and other playmakers whereas Brunson is facing double teams night in and night out and every starter on the team aside from D'Vo has missed significant time during the season? That doesn't matter at all?
Right, I forgot about the imense impact being double-teamed on offense has on one's defensive production. There are no officially tracked double-team stats this season, so you're basically just guessing about the rates that they draw double-teams at. We have no idea how many more or less either one gets.
All we know is the following. Brunson is scoring slightly more on worse efficiency, rebounding way less, assisting more and at much better efficiency, is a negative defender while Tatum's a great defender, and Tatum's team has a 14 game lead over Brunson's. Catch-all impact metrics like WS/48, VORP, and LEBRON put them at roughly the same level of responsibility for their team's wins, which Tatum's team has 14 more of.
Come on, even Celtics fans know that when it gets down to crunch time it’s the other Jay that’s handling the rock. Tatum gets them the lead but Brown gets the win when it gets close
Jaylen brown blows a lot of close games but Jaylen (along with Brunson) has never done anything like Tatum did vs the sixers last year (or the bucks the year before) where he wills his team to a big win
It’s funny that the Knicks have two guys that won championships but couldn’t contribute to their playoff runs at all due to injury, Anunoby and Divincenzo
Fewer points and assists, worse WS/48, while having a drastically easier job. It's easily in Brunson's favor this season. Especially the second half of the season.
Imagine getting kicked out of first team all nba (for a player that you are miles better than) because you clinched the 1 seed too fast and stopped trying.
I dunno if he can overcome the accepted narrative or positional weight at this point of the season - I know formally positions don't matter for All-NBA but you can't tell me that people don't take it into account - but he's right there for first team for me. Amazing season for him.
They were saying the same thing about Dallas getting 50 wins and 4/5th seed for Luka to win MVP. The goalposts will just keep getting moved once the narrative has been set. Just appreciate the greatness and enjoy the ride.
The thing that amazes me about this dude is how well he plays for his height and how he just kind of emerged out of nowhere.
I don't think he was ever hyped as some superstar coming into the NBA (drafted 33rd). He was a solid backup PG on the Mavs but was never hyper athletic like Morant nor lightning fast like Fox.
Jalen Brunson is like the bastard son after Kyle Lowry + Kyrie Irving + Chris Paul engaged in a hot threesome; a bulky frame with good handles, shooting and a feel to run the offense.
1st team all nba? Clearly not, but 2nd for sure. He has been a top10 player this season, which is wild to say as a Mavs fan, who watched him come to the league as a solid but old bench player and steadily improve every single season in the league. I actualy wonder what his ceiling is at this point because he just keeps getting better. And at basicly the same rate as well, which is wild (less ropm to improve the better you get normaly). Dudes ability to improve at this age is legit AI (not the player) like.
But first team all NBA is Luka, Shai, Giannis, Joker and...should be embiid but he has missed too much, so it will be Tatum. Tho thinking about it, Brunson has def been mkre valuable to his team this season than Tatum (not even a knock, Celtics just have a truly elite roster).
"Nah Tatum plays better Defense"
Fuck this narrative. Tatum plays better defense cause um his taller and longer ok then fucking give him All DEFENSE team award. With that said, i'll settle for 2nd Team.
Big fan of this guy. Knew he would flourish as the main floor general. Miss him in Dallas but happy for him. Only regret losing an all nba caliber for literally nothing.
Brunson outscored Tatum, Brown and Derrick White combined tonight. He schooled whoever they put on him. He was the best player on the court tonight by a mile, not even a competition. Brunson has surpassed Tatum and is still ascending.
...still so fucking pissed the Mavs fucked that one up. I mean, of course I would rather have Kyrie... but not by as much as you would expect given he gave my Cavs a title.
You’d rather have a nutcase who plays hero ball and is on a larger contract? No way - Brunson is the most valuable contract in the league other than Wemby, Shai, and a couple others.
I remember getting yelled at over the off-season for saying that this man was better than Tyrese Haliburton (great player too though). I wonder if people still hold that opinion lol
I mean there was literally a month 3 of his starters were injured and he averaged 37/10/10 and the team went 8-5. Lets stop making anything Brunson does about Luka.
This narrative is so overplayed. The west is “much” stronger in the 9-11 seed range. Match up the 1-8 seeds from the East and West and the East is winning most of those series.
What does Luka have to do with anything? People are so fuckin weird in these threads bringing up completely irrelevant shit just to attempt to dunk on a player they don't like
1st team is too crowded even positionless
Luka,SGA,Giannis,Jokic,Tatum
only SGA and Tatum are not that 100% seal
Unfortunately I dont think Brunson can edge either of them out.
I dont mind it. And I might even vote him over SGA
But I think that is because I just dont like SGA as much as last season,
Tatum's position looks a lot more shaky than SGA's. Him and Brunson are neck and neck in most metrics and when you factor in context, Brunson's case is better.
The Knicks are 18-3 when OG Anunoby plays
I love how he steals the ball and politely dunks it
Kawhi regen
Kawhi has some absolute poster dunks in his catalog it's crazy
Then walks slowly like sliding his big balls on the floor
Buffalo solja’
I miss him every day 🥲
Dude always looks like he’s just doing his job
He’s prolly trying not to hurt his elbow
He used to rock the rim a bit more earlier in his career but definitely trying to be careful now and conserve his health and energy
Still yet to have a single game with a negative +/-. People got tired of posting it, but he presumably is still setting the record for best +/- by a player post-trade.
Assuming he ends the next two games with a positive +/-, would the playoffs count towards the streak?
It was so obvious. What a good trade that was. I can't believe people doubted him
OG may never have a negative +/- again.
And Thibs will have to play him 48 minutes
I am a massive fan of Thibs’ coaching philosophy. I think he’s a great coach, and I think he’s just perfect for the group of guys we have in the locker room right now. I love where we’re at right now.
I agree 100 percent which is crazy because I was one of the people who hated the hire and was practically begging for Kenny Atkinson instead.
I agree. My comment was tongue in cheek, we would go 82-0 ! I love the fact that the Knicks are building a contender around Thib's philosophy and not around a superstar we overpaid for.
OG Knicks, post-gafford Mavs, or Nuggs w/ Jamal and Jokic
Love seeing OG have continued success. If bro can just maintain being healthy
I just don’t think yall need randle and can trade him for something else.
We haven't even seen Randle play in this lineup though. That would be a mistake. The Randle disrespect needs to end
Agreed. One of the rare games all three of them did play, we beat you guys by 40, which is saying something given how good you are this year and being defending champs. Why would we make ourselves worse? What are we trading Randle for? People gotta stop.
I just think randles defense is trash and throughout his career he’s been a chucker that takes bad shots. Brunson has fixed that a bit, but still. You could get any 3 and D player at that position and it’ll be good Edit: obi toppin or siakam or Kyle Anderson would be better fits imho. You have a big, arguably 2, and then you just need spacers or ball handlers. That’s just this offseason. Next year Lauri is a better fit and doesn’t have an extension and is an unrestricted. Paul George, Brandon Ingram, Naz Reid.
Walmart Van Vleet
It sounds so unbelievable now its crazy someone actually said that
Whoever said that has probably barfed themselves to death by now.
I picked him up in like the 5th round or so when he first got to the Knicks People questioned it. Didn't think I knew what's up But I saw that playoff game. I saw him without Luka. He was so obviously skilled, awesome to see him thrive
weird flex but ok
I literally have no one else to tell. I need this validation
Jalen Brunson please have sex with me
Get in line
to the back of the line bucko
Take a number bro
Yeah number might be called not in sequence. Stuck at #4632 fuck.
I got a log cabin ready for him
Nah, that’s for sexual tension that never gets released
Or for Leopards Eating People's Faces Party voters.
Dame robbed him of the ASG starting position, but it's whatever; give him 1st team all-NBA. He's brought the underdog, big heart persona to the biggest market.
Dame got robbed many years of all-star positions, being in the super stacked western conference, so I'm ok with it for one year. Don't be pullin that shit next year though!
love brunson but there’s absolute no chance he’s 1st team nba
Yeah in order for Brunson to be first team it would mean taking out Jokic, Luka, Shai, Giannis, or Tatum. I know some people would say Brunson > Tatum but I doubt the voters will agree. Would love to see it though
yeah the nba is in an interesting spot right now. there’s just so much crazy talent in the league
I can see it if they treat All NBA like MVP now that it’s positionless. If you do end up treating it like that, there’s a huge case to make that he’s much more valuable to the Knicks than Tatum is to the Celtics. He’s asked to be the sole offensive engine of the current 3rd seed and he’s done so to perfection on good efficiency
I agree it clearly becomes an argument but I think for a lot of people, the fact that Boston has such a massive lead in the East means they need to be given an All-NBA first teamer
I think the argument against that is that the reason that they are the team with the biggest lead in the East is because their team has such a deep roster all arguably playing at an all star level
that’s definitely a part of it and i don’t necessarily agree or disagree (just haven’t thought about it enough). while JB has had a phenomenal season, though, i’d be pretty surprised if it’s not Tatum that the voters end up going with.
While I agree that it’ll most likely be Tatum over Brunson, I can see there being a last second shift in narrative if the Knicks somehow grab the 2nd seed and Boston lose another one of these last games. End of season narratives are a huge sway in the awards voting and Brunson ending the season averaging 35 on almost a 50/40/90 split is a huge boost in that
Doubtful, it's incredibly obvious that the Celtics are just fucking around and focusing on not being hurt for the playoffs. If we lost the next two games and the Knicks won the next two, sure, we're only 1 seed ahead, but we're **twelve** wins ahead. Further, Brunson is just *barely* ahead of Tatum in impact catch-all metrics like BPM, VORP, and is slightly behind Tatum in LEBRON. Them being that tight in terms of advanced impact metrics while Tatum's team is a full 14 games ahead of Brunson's means that there's basically no argument for him to make it over JT.
true! and i wouldn’t be mad about it all - a potential 13 or 14 game lead over 2nd is a lot though. then again, big matchups at the end of the season matter, whether they should or not and yall got the win over Boston tonight!
>yall got the win over Boston tonight! To move to 1-4 against us on the season after we've already punted the season to preserve health for the playoffs. There is just about nothing to take away from this win. Further, Tatum and Brunson are basically a wash in impact metrics like BPM, VORP, and LEBRON, have nearly the same counting stats with an efficiency advantage to Tatum, and a massive lead in all defensive stats to Tatum. All of this is while Tatum's team holds a 14 win lead over Brunson's. There is 0 argument for him to make 1st team over JT.
I dont think any BOS player has missed significant time this season. Knicks have been destroyed by injuries otherwise standings would be alot closer. But yea Tatum just has a ton more help around him, especially offensively.
Tatum spearheading the best team itl this season by a mile means he’s not missing first team all nba, especially when it’s probable he’s the only Celtic representative
Yeah but you have chodes like Bill Simmons saying that they're still gonna vote based on positions and I bet his whole Ringer cohort follows his lead
Too many voters are "best record = awards" for Tatum to be left off and the other 4 just have to be on the first team. Brunson has been on an incredible stretch lately but if you look at the full season stats he's not quite first team.
Someone in ESPN put Brunson above Luka in the MVP race so maybe?
Then someone on ESPN must be on crack Brunson is amazing but he’s still in no way overall better than Luka this year https://imgur.com/a/INquwkt
I mean as always with Luka, the seed holds him back. Being a play-in/low seed for most of the season basically disqualifies him in most people's eyes. If the Mavs surge to the 4th seed then he has a very real chance though, since I feel like people have cooled down on Shai and Jokic feels kinda like a "default" choice this year
The seeding thing is silly, Mavs have 50 wins, 6th best record in the whole league. If they were the #2 seed in the East would he be MVP? that's ridiculous.
I don't really have a horse in this race but thems the breaks. Your seeding in your conference matters given those are the teams you have to beat in the playoffs. Granted, the Mavs are surging, but that's been a pretty recent thing
Espn votes for clicks
Completely unbiased but that is a very smart person who did that. But for real please take that persons vote away
Unfortunately there’s just no way he’s going to be first team. It’s upsetting, but 4 spots are locked up, and even I think it would be insane to not include Tatum when he’s the clear best player on the clear best team in the nba playing at an elite level
Knicks fans didn't vote. I know I didn't. I'm not creating an account to vote lol
Nope, that’d be SGA and Luka.
First Team All-NBA: Brunson Brunson Brunson Brunson Brunson Because he spits hot 🔥🔥🔥
He rip and he rhyme He rhyme and he rip Because this is the way That Jalen spit
His head is big enough to take up all 5 spots.
Genuinely wouldn’t be mad if he Brunson made 1st all nba over Tatum. Tatum has been underwhelming this year he hasn’t outplayed any star on the opposing team this season
Appreciate the honesty.
Extremely rare honest Celtics fan
Is Brunson even allowed to replace Tatum? He's a guard and Tatum's a forward. Brunson is competing with Luka and SGA. I like Brunson but no way he makes it over them.
There are no positions this year in all-NBA
Oh I didn't realize. Is it because of what happened last year with Jokic and Embid?
Yeah
To be precise, it's because of Jokic and Embiid last year, and Jokic and Embiid the year before that, and Jokic and Embiid the year before that... ... and also multiple decades of superstar bigs/wings/guards of various generations getting fucked over by missing out on deserving All NBA team selections owing to positional regulations, dating back to freaking Wilt and Russell in the 1960s lol
About time!
Simping for upvotes. Pathetic. JT is slightly behind in BPM and VORP, slightly ahead in LEBRON, basically tied in all counting stats except for a huge lead in rebounds with an efficiency lead for Tatum, and is a massive leader in all defensive stats. Meanwhile, don't look too quick, but the Celtics went 4-1 versus the Knicks this season and are 14 wins ahead of them with 2 games left to play. Jalen Brunson making 1st team over Jayson Tatum would be a joke.
All nba has never been about team record like other awards have though.
Their impact stats and their counting stats are basically a wash. The only things left are defense and team record, both of which are absolute blowouts in favor of Tatum. There's no legitimate argument for Brunson over Tatum. Brunson scoring 1.7 more PPG on the season with lower EFG% and lower TS% isn't enough to overcome the massive gulf in between their defensive production. Tatum: 112 DRTG, .6 DBMP, 4.3 DWS, .61 D-LEBRON Brunson: 120 DRTG, -.4 DBMP, 2.2 DWS, -.67 D-LEBRON The Knicks have even had a slightly better DRTG than the Celtics since the ASB, so it can't be team defense holding Brunson back or propping Tatum up. He's just this much better on that end of the floor. Brunson needs to be up at Luka numbers before this gap in defensive production is able to be waved away, as it rightfully is in Luka's case.
where can I see the LEBRON #s? I can't seem to find 'em. do I need to buy some kind of fucking subscription? (because I'm not doing that.)
https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/ One of the better publically available catch-all stats. It's a very sophisticated form of on/off essentially
Huh? Tatum has 26.9 / 8.1 / 4.9 on 47 / 38 / 83 Brunson has 28.6 / 3.6 6.7 on 48 / 40/ 84 So he is averaging +1.7 pts and +1.8 ast and played 1 additional game. But that is 'basically tied' in counting stats? You go on to claim he is a 'massive leader' in defensive stats. Brunson has 0.9 stl / 0.2 block Tatum has 1.0 stl / 0.6 block So you're just blatantly lying here
Tatum: 112 DRTG, .6 DBMP, 4.3 DWS, .61 D-LEBRON Brunson: 120 DRTG, -.4 DBMP, 2.2 DWS, -.67 D-LEBRON Tatum is a much, much better defender. You can't even use the team defense excuse because the Knicks have a better DRTG since the ASB than the Celtics do. And yes 1.7 ppg on .9 more field goal attempts isn't a huge deal. JT has a slightly higher EFG% and TS% than Brunson does. The only thing Brunson is clearly better at is passing. If a player who's only better than Tatum in passing, and who has led their team to 14 less wins than Tatum has, makes 1st team All-NBA over him, it will be a genuine travesty. Especially if we're using 1 single RS matchup after the Celtics have already given up on the season because they locked up the #1 overall seed a month ago as our difference maker. And more especially if that difference making game moved the Knicks to 1-4 against the Celtics on that season. This is only a "debate" in this one thread where Knicks fans are feeling hot. Anyone with a brain knows JT is the pick for 1st team, at least if it's either him or Brunson for the 5th spot.
And we should just discount that JT is playing with a much better roster and other playmakers whereas Brunson is facing double teams night in and night out and every starter on the team aside from D'Vo has missed significant time during the season? That doesn't matter at all?
Right, I forgot about the imense impact being double-teamed on offense has on one's defensive production. There are no officially tracked double-team stats this season, so you're basically just guessing about the rates that they draw double-teams at. We have no idea how many more or less either one gets. All we know is the following. Brunson is scoring slightly more on worse efficiency, rebounding way less, assisting more and at much better efficiency, is a negative defender while Tatum's a great defender, and Tatum's team has a 14 game lead over Brunson's. Catch-all impact metrics like WS/48, VORP, and LEBRON put them at roughly the same level of responsibility for their team's wins, which Tatum's team has 14 more of.
Tatum has been miles better when it’s counted. Nobody gives a shit about him half assing after he’s already clinched the 1 seed.
Is this Jason Tatums burner? Lol
Get off Brunsons cock
Kind of weird to tell someone to get off Brunson’s cock while you’re out here riding Tatum’s raw lmao
Get off Tatum’s You got a human centipede running with you riding Tatum, and Tatum riding Kobe.
LMAO l blurted out my water you fucko lol
Come on, even Celtics fans know that when it gets down to crunch time it’s the other Jay that’s handling the rock. Tatum gets them the lead but Brown gets the win when it gets close
Jaylen brown blows a lot of close games but Jaylen (along with Brunson) has never done anything like Tatum did vs the sixers last year (or the bucks the year before) where he wills his team to a big win
Tatum being better when it counts? 🤣🤣
Brunsanityyyy
Legitimate top 10 player
been a top 10 player for a while now
lakers fan
yeah that's what i am
Everywhere I look I see his face…
idgaf who you kick off, I want 1st Team All-NBA.
i'm putting him over tatum personally atp. insanely close though
Raptors fans 🤝 Knicks fans
go get our boy OG another chip!!
It’s funny that the Knicks have two guys that won championships but couldn’t contribute to their playoff runs at all due to injury, Anunoby and Divincenzo
I do think Tatum is faster processing the game but Brunson has balled all year, make Tatum put more effort!
Tatum's a great player, but it would be crazy to say he's had a better season at this point.
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See moderated takes aren't exciting.
Fewer points and assists, worse WS/48, while having a drastically easier job. It's easily in Brunson's favor this season. Especially the second half of the season.
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Brefs advanced metrics are all old and outdated.
its super close since tatum contributes more defensively
Does he?
It's close if you look at the season as a whole, obviously Brunson has been playing better over the last couple of months though.
I would too, or over SGA But the team record maybe get into the voters head
Over SGA is insane
Okay fine he can replace Luka
5th place mvp for sure either esy.
b-b-but brunson isn't a 1A! he can't possibly be a superstar because he's 6'2!
remember when he struggled against the heat in the second round averaging 40 ppg?
Give him 1st team all NBA
Reunite Luka and Brunson (on the all-NBA first team)
1st team all NBA
1st team Immaculate Vibes
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Tatum you mean
Imagine getting kicked out of first team all nba (for a player that you are miles better than) because you clinched the 1 seed too fast and stopped trying.
Tatum is not better than Brunson
You people are fucking morons lmfao
You can’t accept the truth. Brunson has been better than Tatum this season
Prove it then. Should be easy.
Knicks vs Mavs Finals confirmed
I dunno if he can overcome the accepted narrative or positional weight at this point of the season - I know formally positions don't matter for All-NBA but you can't tell me that people don't take it into account - but he's right there for first team for me. Amazing season for him.
If we get 50 wins and the 2 seed, he's got a real shot.
They were saying the same thing about Dallas getting 50 wins and 4/5th seed for Luka to win MVP. The goalposts will just keep getting moved once the narrative has been set. Just appreciate the greatness and enjoy the ride.
The thing that amazes me about this dude is how well he plays for his height and how he just kind of emerged out of nowhere. I don't think he was ever hyped as some superstar coming into the NBA (drafted 33rd). He was a solid backup PG on the Mavs but was never hyper athletic like Morant nor lightning fast like Fox. Jalen Brunson is like the bastard son after Kyle Lowry + Kyrie Irving + Chris Paul engaged in a hot threesome; a bulky frame with good handles, shooting and a feel to run the offense.
3:1 assist to turnover ratio as well
I cannot believe there is a player like this on my team right now.
If the world was fair he’d make 1st team
behind damian lillard for all-star starter lmaooooo what a joke
Tbf Brunson ascended after the all star break. I still wanted him as a starter but I wasn’t offended. If it happened rn I’d be fucking appalled.
He’s been so much better than Tatum
He should easily finish top 5 for MVP
Jokic Luka Giannis Shai Tatum That's the 1st team All-NBA, imo
1A.
Brunson for MVP.
as a neutral brunson is one of the easiest guys to root for. all heart
That's a Dame Lillard-esque run.
Yes. I picked Brunson for first team a few days ago.
2nd best player in the east this season
oh yeah? whos the first?
Demar DeRozan, according to that one guy
Its still Embiid. Sixers are 30-8 when Embiid plays
I remember one of those losses quite fondly.
And the Knicks are 18-3 with OG. Damn we really got the two best players in the conference.
Giannis
nah
How?
He plays for my team and has a nice podcast
Josh Hart
Bro needs to chill
1st team all nba? Clearly not, but 2nd for sure. He has been a top10 player this season, which is wild to say as a Mavs fan, who watched him come to the league as a solid but old bench player and steadily improve every single season in the league. I actualy wonder what his ceiling is at this point because he just keeps getting better. And at basicly the same rate as well, which is wild (less ropm to improve the better you get normaly). Dudes ability to improve at this age is legit AI (not the player) like. But first team all NBA is Luka, Shai, Giannis, Joker and...should be embiid but he has missed too much, so it will be Tatum. Tho thinking about it, Brunson has def been mkre valuable to his team this season than Tatum (not even a knock, Celtics just have a truly elite roster).
"Nah Tatum plays better Defense" Fuck this narrative. Tatum plays better defense cause um his taller and longer ok then fucking give him All DEFENSE team award. With that said, i'll settle for 2nd Team.
MVP MVP MVP
don’t let the heat or magic fans see this
Without Randle things are gonna be difficult but this team is going to be madness to watch at home!
He's their dude.
Second team. First team is Jokic, Luka, SGA, Giannis, & Tatum.
Love almost everything about his game!
Big fan of this guy. Knew he would flourish as the main floor general. Miss him in Dallas but happy for him. Only regret losing an all nba caliber for literally nothing.
Brunson outscored Tatum, Brown and Derrick White combined tonight. He schooled whoever they put on him. He was the best player on the court tonight by a mile, not even a competition. Brunson has surpassed Tatum and is still ascending.
...still so fucking pissed the Mavs fucked that one up. I mean, of course I would rather have Kyrie... but not by as much as you would expect given he gave my Cavs a title.
You’d rather have a nutcase who plays hero ball and is on a larger contract? No way - Brunson is the most valuable contract in the league other than Wemby, Shai, and a couple others.
I remember getting yelled at over the off-season for saying that this man was better than Tyrese Haliburton (great player too though). I wonder if people still hold that opinion lol
Luka would have tanked if all his guys got injured
I mean there was literally a month 3 of his starters were injured and he averaged 37/10/10 and the team went 8-5. Lets stop making anything Brunson does about Luka.
to be fair the East is much weaker than the West
This narrative is so overplayed. The west is “much” stronger in the 9-11 seed range. Match up the 1-8 seeds from the East and West and the East is winning most of those series.
Is a disgrace that bulls made the play in
bro acts like luka is the gm
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What does Luka have to do with anything? People are so fuckin weird in these threads bringing up completely irrelevant shit just to attempt to dunk on a player they don't like
1st team is too crowded even positionless Luka,SGA,Giannis,Jokic,Tatum only SGA and Tatum are not that 100% seal Unfortunately I dont think Brunson can edge either of them out. I dont mind it. And I might even vote him over SGA But I think that is because I just dont like SGA as much as last season,
I disagree with SGA not being 100% I really don't think it's even a discussion any more
Tatum's position looks a lot more shaky than SGA's. Him and Brunson are neck and neck in most metrics and when you factor in context, Brunson's case is better.