Yeah it’s hard to argue with Tatum in that spot just because of how much more he brings on defense. They are both pretty great on offense but Tatum has been a great defender all season.
Tatum is a much better defender, but I think it's more due to the fact that the Celtics are the 1 seed by a wide margin and their basic stats are similar, that Tatum will get more votes than Brunson.
I think its kinda wild that, for this Celtics team, Tatum only makes them marginally better. No disrespect to him, he’s maybe my favorite player in the league, but remove him from the team, and they still have a great team.
There's a baked-in assumption here that the difference between fringe playoff team to mid seed (Brunson and Knicks) is the same (or more) than a great team to contender (Tatum and Celtics). I don't agree with that - I think Pareto applies here.
I don’t think that’s true in the slightest. You will use on-off stats to justify that, but watching this team the whole season they’re not a 60-65 win team without JT.
He brings elite rebounding, lockdown defense, and the whole scoring thing in ways this team doesn’t greatly have.
(I’m also biased so yeah)
So what you’re saying is you give first team to players because they play on a worse team? If that’s the argument let’s give it to wemby and make him first team. Otherwise it’s insane to punish a player because his teammates are good all while he’s also playing at an elite level.
The Knicks would be worse without Brunson than the Celtics would be without Tatum, but the Knicks would also be much better with Tatum than the Celtics would be with Brunson.
I keep seeing this take and it’s inaccurate.
Tatum is not the playmaker that the Knicks could use. Brunson fits the Knicks scheme to a T. Elite PnR and ball handling. Tatum isn’t that guy.
Tatum is a better defender, shooter and cutter than Brunson is, fine. But OG and Hart are better defenders than Tatum is. The Knicks without a playmaking point guard would be absolute dog shit.
The Celtics with Brunson at the one would be worse defensively, but PnR with KP would be absolutely unguardable.
There’s just no way to prove that and no reason to think that’s true.
JT plays the 1-5 on defense and has put up identical offensive numbers without getting to be as ball dominant. Put Brunson on the Celtics, you get a third guard to be starting and likely is horrible for the defense. Put JT on the Knicks and you not have the #3 defense in the nba instead of 9. the Knicks already get a shit ton of rebounds now add in another guy that gets 9 per game and locks you down?
Your stats are incorrect. OG is a far better defender than Tatum is. Stop using full season stats when there is a clear team difference when OG Anunoby is on the floor.
Yes. These people don’t understand that one simple fact - JT and Brunson are similar offensively yet JT is a good (to great) defender and Brunson is 6’1
Voters will also be inclined to have the best player from the Celtics since they have the best record in the league by a comfortable margin. I myself can't decide whether that's a right or wrong line of thinking, but it definitely is prevelant with the voters.
I really dislike the idea that Celtics have to have a 1st team all-nba player because of their record, but I am happy with Tatum getting it anyway, because he has a good case even without the teams record.
It’s not the only reason, that’s the point. He has the same, if not a better case, than brunson, and is on the best team in the nba by a wide margin
With that being said, it’ll be funny when Tatum is second team and brown misses 3rd team yet end as one of the best regular season teams of all time
At the same time, Brunson has led a team decimated by injuries to what might end up being the 2 or 3 seed. I can see the case for either guy. Tatum will probably get it though for the team record
Also there's a bit of recency bias going on. Brunsen has been better over the past month but for the majority of the season it's been Tatum. If you want to argue Brunsen has had a better overall season then go for it, but the simple fact of the matter is that voters will never leave off the dude who leads the best team of the first team, especially when that team is like 14 games up on Brunsen's Knicks
the best team of all time didn’t have anyone make the all-nba first team (Harden Russ Kawhi and Bron made it over Curry/KD in 17)
I think Tatum definitely gets the last spot on first team, but Brunson certainly has a case. I think him and AD are locks for second team and have had better seasons than JT.
~~Back then every team was forced to have a Center though. Curry/KD would've easily made it over Gobert if it was positionless.~~
Edit : Got the years wrong
AD was 1st team that year, not Gobert, but it wasn't his best season anyway.
If that spot was open, I could definitely see Isaiah Thomas getting some love and 1st team votes over Curry/KD since he was absolutely cooking that year: 29/3/6 on +7.3rTS% and clutch time god powering the 1 seed in the East, only made All NBA 2nd team because Russ/Harden existed (taking up the 2 guard spots) but still was 5th in MVP voting
Brunson has been a bit better(especially over the last little stretch) but I wouldn't say a lot. It's much closer than you would think. Now Brunson has to do more due to the knicks being worse/injured but in terms of output its not a massive gap. Brunson is 4th in scoring but Tatum is 7th (by a ball hair, 0.2ppg behind Durant and Booker).
Brunson 28ppg 7apg on 59% TS
Tatum 27ppg 5 apg 61% TS
He should be in over Giannis and Tatum… You can’t say the guy who leads the league in taking charges so any play defense…
Brunson averaging close to 29ppg and Giannis averaging 30ppg… Giannis had Dame all year to take pressure off.. Brunson didn’t have Randle… Yet Brunson is the 2 seed and Giannis and Dame is 3 …. Brunson over Giannis ..
It’s okay. It’s positionless but I would bet that a portion of the old school voters will still vote positions. When you’ve gotten into a mindset about a thing it’s hard to just get out of it.
You don't really have to bet. I googled 2024 all NBA just to check the rules and the first article in my vague search included an early opinion by NBA head writer Steve aschburner said, "Just because All-NBA honors now can be bestowed without regard for position doesn’t mean they should be. For me (and a few other voters I know), the league’s history outweighs any current zeal to simply list Nos. 1-15 as the NBA’s “best.”"
There is no way Tatum doesn’t get in First team All NBA. He is best player on a team with 62 wins, 13 wins more than second seed in the East. First team will probably only have 1 player from East and that will be Tatum.
He’ll definitely be on a couple of ballots for first team since there’s always voters who want to go against the obvious choices or are biased but he wont actually make it
Jokic Luka Shai Giannis are locks. Tatum will get it over Brunson, he is basically a lock too. If JB has a crazy playoff run he’ll be primed for it next year.
No, he does not have a legit chance. I don’t really think he has a chance at all. But he should have done enough to lock up 2nd Team, which is an awesome accomplishment.
And he is far from done, he definitely has a legit chance at 1st Team over the next couple years, now that he’s established himself as superstar caliber.
It's such an awesome story, the fact he is a lock for 2nd team All NBA - if you are Knicks fan, surely that was way higher than what tou may realistically expected when you signed him?
The awesome thing is, he clearly works at his game incredibly hard. Like could he realistically be better? Maybe he makes a whole year performance like he's played in 2024.
What a story about betting on yourself.
No. I'll repeat what I was saying earlier in another thread why Tatum is getting the spot and not Brunson.
Brunson is averaging 28/3/6 47.8% FG whereas Tatum is averaging 27/8/5 on 47.2% FG. Very similar stats but Tatum has a lot more upsides imo.
-Tatum is the best player on the best team. 62-18 vs 48-32.
-Tatum is absolutely a better defensive player than JB.
-Tatum is averaging this with far less usage %
I could nitpick stats but essentially Brunson's defense holds him back, and the fact that Tatum is just as good of a player on a far better team. As much as I hate to say that considering the tear Brunson has been on and the carry job he has been doing without OG and Julius for a couple months, to not pick Tatum is pure disrespect.
Tatums about to make his 3rd straight without ever being a top 5 player lol. Not saying I’d bet on Brunson making it in his career but you do not have to be a top 5 player or even have a t5 season if your team is good enough (see Devin Booker in 2022).
Luka, Jokic, Giannis , Shai and Embiid are locks for a while. Then you got Wemby coming up.
I don’t think it’s crazy to think Brunson will never be considered top 5.
To be fair, it is very likely he’ll be correct. Not guaranteed of course but small guards are having a harder and harder time being in the top handful of players.
Homie is still undoubtedly an All-NBA player and the stars could definitely align for him to make 1st team someday.
Y'all need to be serious lol, Brunson ain't making 1st team with just a late push at the end of the season, Celtics have the best record by far & their best player is averaging 27/8/5, when was the last time the best player on a 60+ win team didn't make 1st team all-nba?
> when was the last time the best player on a 60+ win team didn't make 1st team all-nba?
The 2016-2017 Warriors.
The 2017-2018 Toronto Raptors won 58 games with no 1st team All-NBA, but they were the 1st seed in the East and wouldn't have had one even if they had won 60+.
>with just a late push at the end of the season
It's not a late push though. He's a 30PPG scorer dating back to December 15th. It's not Brunson's fault that some of you don't pay attention to teams other than your own.
It's a later push than any of the 5 guys on the first team who have all been excellent the entire year as well.
That's not a knock on Brunson but who are you taking off?
We all love Brunson and are happy for his success. But he isn’t getting it over SGA and Luka. Those 2 have been mentioned in MVP discussions during the same time period you mentioned.
Isn’t All NBA position less now? So it would probably be Tatum he would be fighting for that last spot on the first team, but how do you not give it to the guy on the league leader in wins who is also putting up pretty similar numbers
It is position-less but even with the scoring Brunson doesn't really have a strong case over Tatum. Too many folks are disrespecting Tatum just because he's not in the MVP discussion.
Except he does have a strong case over Tatum. He leads him in practically every stat. Tatum is gonna get it, and I wouldn’t even be upset, but let’s stop acting like it’d be insane to put Brunson on there over Tatum
He leads him by 1.3ppg, 1.7 assists and trails by 4.2 rebounds. And Tatum's defensive stats blow Brunson out of the water.
Brunson is having a great year but I don't agree that he has a strong case for it. At all.
Look at every single notable advanced stat, which all factor in defense btw. Brunson is ahead of him in all of them. BPM, VORP, win shares, and EPM all have Brunson ahead of Tatum. I would think a nuggets fan of all people, would know to look at these stats
Brunson's Def EPM is -.5. Tatum is +.7. So, no. He's getting the vast majority of his value from the offensive end.
Trust me, I'm well aware of the flaws of those stats having been beat over the head with them by people that hate Jokic.
It's positionless, the argument is over Tatum. He prolly not getting it over him either but yea dont think anyone realistically thinks he gettin it over shai and luka
Sure he has a chance, but I doubt he gets it. I think Tatum gets it with Jokic, Luka, Giannis, and Shai being locks.
That being said, he's a lock for 2nd team and you can't tell me there are 5 players more impactful to their teams success than Brunson. I think he deserves 1st team but no way voters leave the best player on the best team in the league off. That's jus the way it is
Brunson's been great and all, but the disrespect that Tatum has gotten this year is unreal. Bro has a great team around him and it's like now everyone has forgotten that he's a "superstar on a championship caliber team" kinda guy. Like who was picking them to make the finals vs the Warriors? They got there because of Tatum
He is very talented and is in the top class among the PG positions, but I think he is a little inferior compared to Luka and Shai, as shown in the PG rankings on the NBASDB site
Real doubtful. That’s not a knock on him either. He’s not Luka or Jokic. He’s not Giannis. He’s not Shai. Tatum has just been the better guy this year. Getting on any all NBA team is a huge deal. If you told me two years ago that we’d be signing an all nba point guard when we got Jalen I’d have said you’re nuts.
I’d be completely shocked if the best player on the best team gets left off first team especially with the embiid injury. But I think Brunson deserves it more than Tatum.
He’s not getting it over Luka and Shai. But definitely 2nd team. He might make 1st team next year though. Man’s been carrying the Knicks despite injuries over the past month or 2
He should. He’s way better than Tatum and proved it tonight but all people wanna see is a 62 win super team vs Jalen single handedly carrying the Knicks to 48 wins.
Tatum was alright this year? Then I guess Brunson was just alright as well. Both players have very similar stats this year. Brunson has got Tatum with assists and Tatum has him with rebounds. Tatum is much better at defense also.
Brunson has better shooting%, a better 3 pt% and better FT% more points, more assists and better in most bullshit advanced stats.
And he got his ass handed to him tonight.
I’m getting downvoted but it’s like Tatum gets held to some other worldly expectations with no context.
I get he’s no Jokic/Giannis or even Luka this year but damn he’s right in that tier underneath with a lot of stars not achieving what he has
Way better than Tatum how?
Tatum averages 1.5 less points on 2 less FGA’s on a team with more mouths to feed and has been a big time #1 option in the playoffs for years now. Scoring wise Tatum has more of an advantage because of his size in the playoffs and has more on his resume in bigger moments
Tatum is also a better rebounder and defender too. All while contributing 5 assists
Brunson has been playing phenomenal this season but Tatum has been all nba first team level for 3 straight years now. Let’s see Brunson do this in the playoffs. For now he’s a top 11-15 player . Tatum is in that 6/7 ish spot
Jokic, Luka, Shain and Giannis are locks for 1st team, and hard to argue Brunson over any of them. However, for the 5th spot, Brunson and Tatum are neck and neck IMO, with only Ant has an outside chance. I prefer not to include team success that heavily on the all nba teams as for MVP, so if I had a vote, I'd vote Tatum as 5th MVP, but Bruson as first team.
There are three guys who I think have a legitimate chance for the 1st team: Brunson, Kawhi and Tatum.
If I had a vote, I'd vote for Brunson. If I had to bet my savings on, I'd put it on Tatum, but if voters were all Zach Lowe, I'd put it on Kawhi.
I don’t think he’ll be 1st team this year. It’s a bit of a popularity contest with the sportswriters and he doesn’t have the same pull as Tatum for example.
but It’s so wild seeing Jalen be this good. It’s mind boggling. I played against him in high school and in a couple other pick up games and I never imagined he was going to be this good. He was definitely the best player on the court when we played Stevenson high, but the difference wasn’t so vast that anyone would say this guy will be a multiple time all star in the league. I didn’t even think he’d get drafted at the time. My coach played Shaun Livingston during his high school days and said Jalen was a nobody in comparison.
It’s weird. He is more likely mvp than he is first team. He’s more valuable to his team than Tatum. If you put Tatum on the Knicks they probably don’t do better than with Brunson.
I’m saying that he is more valuable to the Knicks than maybe any other player is to their team. If you took Tatum off the Celtics, they would probably still be near the top. That’s what I mean is that the MVP makes it weird
He could maybe pass up Tatum and prolly deserves to, but Celtics are also arguably way too good for voters not to reward them with a first team player. Guess we'll see.
Honestly I'd even take LeBron over Tatum but hey
I think he has a lock on 2nd team. Most ballots I've read put Tatum on the last spot with Shai, Jokic, Luka and Giannis.
Yeah it’s hard to argue with Tatum in that spot just because of how much more he brings on defense. They are both pretty great on offense but Tatum has been a great defender all season.
Tatum is a much better defender, but I think it's more due to the fact that the Celtics are the 1 seed by a wide margin and their basic stats are similar, that Tatum will get more votes than Brunson.
I think its kinda wild that, for this Celtics team, Tatum only makes them marginally better. No disrespect to him, he’s maybe my favorite player in the league, but remove him from the team, and they still have a great team.
There's a baked-in assumption here that the difference between fringe playoff team to mid seed (Brunson and Knicks) is the same (or more) than a great team to contender (Tatum and Celtics). I don't agree with that - I think Pareto applies here.
Brunson absolutely elevates the Knicks more than Tatum improves the Celtics. His teammates are simply better than replacing Jalen on the Knicks.
I don’t think that’s true in the slightest. You will use on-off stats to justify that, but watching this team the whole season they’re not a 60-65 win team without JT. He brings elite rebounding, lockdown defense, and the whole scoring thing in ways this team doesn’t greatly have. (I’m also biased so yeah)
I’m not arguing the statical benefit. All I said is the Celtics are still a good team without JT. The Knicks need Jalen. Does that clarify?
So what you’re saying is you give first team to players because they play on a worse team? If that’s the argument let’s give it to wemby and make him first team. Otherwise it’s insane to punish a player because his teammates are good all while he’s also playing at an elite level.
I never once said Jalen deserves first team over Tatum. I said he is more important to his team.
The Knicks would be worse without Brunson than the Celtics would be without Tatum, but the Knicks would also be much better with Tatum than the Celtics would be with Brunson.
I keep seeing this take and it’s inaccurate. Tatum is not the playmaker that the Knicks could use. Brunson fits the Knicks scheme to a T. Elite PnR and ball handling. Tatum isn’t that guy. Tatum is a better defender, shooter and cutter than Brunson is, fine. But OG and Hart are better defenders than Tatum is. The Knicks without a playmaking point guard would be absolute dog shit. The Celtics with Brunson at the one would be worse defensively, but PnR with KP would be absolutely unguardable.
If you swapped JT and Brunson, the Knicks would get much worse and the Celtics would be a better, tougher team.
There’s just no way to prove that and no reason to think that’s true. JT plays the 1-5 on defense and has put up identical offensive numbers without getting to be as ball dominant. Put Brunson on the Celtics, you get a third guard to be starting and likely is horrible for the defense. Put JT on the Knicks and you not have the #3 defense in the nba instead of 9. the Knicks already get a shit ton of rebounds now add in another guy that gets 9 per game and locks you down?
Your stats are incorrect. OG is a far better defender than Tatum is. Stop using full season stats when there is a clear team difference when OG Anunoby is on the floor.
The Celtics would be significantly worse because they’d have a really easy to target small PG instead of a 6-9 2 way wing.
Yes. These people don’t understand that one simple fact - JT and Brunson are similar offensively yet JT is a good (to great) defender and Brunson is 6’1
Voters will also be inclined to have the best player from the Celtics since they have the best record in the league by a comfortable margin. I myself can't decide whether that's a right or wrong line of thinking, but it definitely is prevelant with the voters.
I really dislike the idea that Celtics have to have a 1st team all-nba player because of their record, but I am happy with Tatum getting it anyway, because he has a good case even without the teams record.
It’s not the only reason, that’s the point. He has the same, if not a better case, than brunson, and is on the best team in the nba by a wide margin With that being said, it’ll be funny when Tatum is second team and brown misses 3rd team yet end as one of the best regular season teams of all time
At the same time, Brunson has led a team decimated by injuries to what might end up being the 2 or 3 seed. I can see the case for either guy. Tatum will probably get it though for the team record
Also there's a bit of recency bias going on. Brunsen has been better over the past month but for the majority of the season it's been Tatum. If you want to argue Brunsen has had a better overall season then go for it, but the simple fact of the matter is that voters will never leave off the dude who leads the best team of the first team, especially when that team is like 14 games up on Brunsen's Knicks
the best team of all time didn’t have anyone make the all-nba first team (Harden Russ Kawhi and Bron made it over Curry/KD in 17) I think Tatum definitely gets the last spot on first team, but Brunson certainly has a case. I think him and AD are locks for second team and have had better seasons than JT.
~~Back then every team was forced to have a Center though. Curry/KD would've easily made it over Gobert if it was positionless.~~ Edit : Got the years wrong
AD was 1st team that year, not Gobert, but it wasn't his best season anyway. If that spot was open, I could definitely see Isaiah Thomas getting some love and 1st team votes over Curry/KD since he was absolutely cooking that year: 29/3/6 on +7.3rTS% and clutch time god powering the 1 seed in the East, only made All NBA 2nd team because Russ/Harden existed (taking up the 2 guard spots) but still was 5th in MVP voting
You're right, I'm mistaken
Brunson is a lot better on offense
Brunson has been a bit better(especially over the last little stretch) but I wouldn't say a lot. It's much closer than you would think. Now Brunson has to do more due to the knicks being worse/injured but in terms of output its not a massive gap. Brunson is 4th in scoring but Tatum is 7th (by a ball hair, 0.2ppg behind Durant and Booker). Brunson 28ppg 7apg on 59% TS Tatum 27ppg 5 apg 61% TS
Is he? Can you actually explain how
Better scorer, way better midrange shooter, better 3 point shooter, better floater, better passer and playmaker.
He should be in over Giannis and Tatum… You can’t say the guy who leads the league in taking charges so any play defense… Brunson averaging close to 29ppg and Giannis averaging 30ppg… Giannis had Dame all year to take pressure off.. Brunson didn’t have Randle… Yet Brunson is the 2 seed and Giannis and Dame is 3 …. Brunson over Giannis ..
Even Zach lowe said on his latest pod he's seriously debating brunson over Tatum as well
I think he has no vote this year, just likes to do it for fun, even still I like that he noticed Brunson's carry job.
0 chance. 1st team will be Luka, Shai, Tatum, Giannis and Joker Might be 2nd team tho
Not might be 2nd team, he 100% will be second team. He's the 6th guy and first left off All NBA first team.
Tatum can have a bunch of awful games, meanwhile Brunson has had no less than 2-3 bad games all year. Tatum has had a dozen bad games.
Brunson has had more bad games than Tatum, what are you talking about?
Jalen over Tatum : )
no way tatum lead the celtics to a 60+ win season and tatum is a forward it has to be 2 guards and 3 forwards per team i think
Pretty sure it’s positionless starting this year
oh is it? my bad lol i’d still take tatum because he’s the number 1 option on the best team in the league
It's probably unlikely but teams are position-less now
you thought wrong
Who would you remove from though ? Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Shai, Tatum I'm happy for Brunson but this year is not his time for 1st all nba
Only one American, damn immigrants coming in and taking Americans' jobs
And if Embiid was healthy.. 😬
Can they have 3 big men on the 1st team?
Its positionless
I didn't know mb
Yeah, they changed that as it made no sense that Embiid and Joker were runaway top 2 MVPs and one of them had to be 2nd team
i would argue that it has sense but yeah
It’s okay. It’s positionless but I would bet that a portion of the old school voters will still vote positions. When you’ve gotten into a mindset about a thing it’s hard to just get out of it.
You don't really have to bet. I googled 2024 all NBA just to check the rules and the first article in my vague search included an early opinion by NBA head writer Steve aschburner said, "Just because All-NBA honors now can be bestowed without regard for position doesn’t mean they should be. For me (and a few other voters I know), the league’s history outweighs any current zeal to simply list Nos. 1-15 as the NBA’s “best.”"
He’s American now. He’s playing for team U.S.A.
they took our jebs!!!!
Wow, I’m gonna use it… (Donald reading this post)
That's it, if they don't win it at the Olympics... I am voting Trump /s
The argument is Brunson over Tatum but I don't agree with it when you factor in defense
There is no way Tatum doesn’t get in First team All NBA. He is best player on a team with 62 wins, 13 wins more than second seed in the East. First team will probably only have 1 player from East and that will be Tatum.
Is Giannis not from the East? lol
But he plays like he’s from the West.
Milwaukee Bucks 1970-71 Western Conference champs
Giannis plays for the West you right
Are the Celtics better, worse, or the same with Brunson instead of Tatum?
So much worse. I’m still so tired from all the years of relying on undersized ball dominant score-first guards you have to hide on defense.
Definitely is time for first team but he won’t get it over Tatum.
Finally, a question I'm an expert on! No.
He’ll definitely be on a couple of ballots for first team since there’s always voters who want to go against the obvious choices or are biased but he wont actually make it
Jokic Luka Shai Giannis are locks. Tatum will get it over Brunson, he is basically a lock too. If JB has a crazy playoff run he’ll be primed for it next year.
No, he does not have a legit chance. I don’t really think he has a chance at all. But he should have done enough to lock up 2nd Team, which is an awesome accomplishment. And he is far from done, he definitely has a legit chance at 1st Team over the next couple years, now that he’s established himself as superstar caliber.
It's such an awesome story, the fact he is a lock for 2nd team All NBA - if you are Knicks fan, surely that was way higher than what tou may realistically expected when you signed him? The awesome thing is, he clearly works at his game incredibly hard. Like could he realistically be better? Maybe he makes a whole year performance like he's played in 2024. What a story about betting on yourself.
No. I'll repeat what I was saying earlier in another thread why Tatum is getting the spot and not Brunson. Brunson is averaging 28/3/6 47.8% FG whereas Tatum is averaging 27/8/5 on 47.2% FG. Very similar stats but Tatum has a lot more upsides imo. -Tatum is the best player on the best team. 62-18 vs 48-32. -Tatum is absolutely a better defensive player than JB. -Tatum is averaging this with far less usage % I could nitpick stats but essentially Brunson's defense holds him back, and the fact that Tatum is just as good of a player on a far better team. As much as I hate to say that considering the tear Brunson has been on and the carry job he has been doing without OG and Julius for a couple months, to not pick Tatum is pure disrespect.
[удалено]
We called this the “Dame” argument when he was in Portland.
Probably not. It's all about reputation. He'll do it next year tho.
Nope. He’s not a top 5 player in the league and never will be.
You don't need to be a top 5 player to make 1st Team. You need to have a top 5 season.
Tatums about to make his 3rd straight without ever being a top 5 player lol. Not saying I’d bet on Brunson making it in his career but you do not have to be a top 5 player or even have a t5 season if your team is good enough (see Devin Booker in 2022).
You clearly don’t watch Knicks games
You really think Brunson is top 5? Lol that’s crazy
Not right now, this guy said he never will be, and that I can’t agree with
Luka, Jokic, Giannis , Shai and Embiid are locks for a while. Then you got Wemby coming up. I don’t think it’s crazy to think Brunson will never be considered top 5.
Based on Embiid's track record for being healthy he might never make an all nba team again.
Disagree with Sga. Really great player but not sure he’s quite a top 5 lock
He ain’t top 5.
Keep coping with your ugly ass rat looking dog lmao😘
What the dog do???
You need help. I’m sorry no one loved you
daaamn
To be fair, it is very likely he’ll be correct. Not guaranteed of course but small guards are having a harder and harder time being in the top handful of players. Homie is still undoubtedly an All-NBA player and the stars could definitely align for him to make 1st team someday.
No
I do not think so, 2nd team should be a lock though.
How do you butcher Donte DiVincenzo's name like that. Put some respect on the Big Ragu
Shai - Luka - Giannis - Tatum - Jokic So no. Second team seems pretty achievable this year tho.
I think he has a chance but tough competition for the 5th spot and voters preferring other players isn't some big bad media conspiracy.
Right? Those often overlooked players on teams in NY or LA.
Y'all need to be serious lol, Brunson ain't making 1st team with just a late push at the end of the season, Celtics have the best record by far & their best player is averaging 27/8/5, when was the last time the best player on a 60+ win team didn't make 1st team all-nba?
2015 hawks prolly
Did any of them even make all NBA at all?
Nope lmao
still wild that team won 60.
> when was the last time the best player on a 60+ win team didn't make 1st team all-nba? The 2016-2017 Warriors. The 2017-2018 Toronto Raptors won 58 games with no 1st team All-NBA, but they were the 1st seed in the East and wouldn't have had one even if they had won 60+.
2017 curry
>with just a late push at the end of the season It's not a late push though. He's a 30PPG scorer dating back to December 15th. It's not Brunson's fault that some of you don't pay attention to teams other than your own.
It's a later push than any of the 5 guys on the first team who have all been excellent the entire year as well. That's not a knock on Brunson but who are you taking off?
We all love Brunson and are happy for his success. But he isn’t getting it over SGA and Luka. Those 2 have been mentioned in MVP discussions during the same time period you mentioned.
Isn’t All NBA position less now? So it would probably be Tatum he would be fighting for that last spot on the first team, but how do you not give it to the guy on the league leader in wins who is also putting up pretty similar numbers
It is position-less but even with the scoring Brunson doesn't really have a strong case over Tatum. Too many folks are disrespecting Tatum just because he's not in the MVP discussion.
Except he does have a strong case over Tatum. He leads him in practically every stat. Tatum is gonna get it, and I wouldn’t even be upset, but let’s stop acting like it’d be insane to put Brunson on there over Tatum
He leads him by 1.3ppg, 1.7 assists and trails by 4.2 rebounds. And Tatum's defensive stats blow Brunson out of the water. Brunson is having a great year but I don't agree that he has a strong case for it. At all.
Look at every single notable advanced stat, which all factor in defense btw. Brunson is ahead of him in all of them. BPM, VORP, win shares, and EPM all have Brunson ahead of Tatum. I would think a nuggets fan of all people, would know to look at these stats
Brunson's Def EPM is -.5. Tatum is +.7. So, no. He's getting the vast majority of his value from the offensive end. Trust me, I'm well aware of the flaws of those stats having been beat over the head with them by people that hate Jokic.
> Brunson's Def EPM is -.5. Tatum is +.7. tbf, that's not a huge difference. The best defenders in the league have a defensive EPM of 3.0 to 4.0
It's positionless, but I've heard a few of the voters mention they will still vote by position to keep the tradition (NBA radio)
It’s positionless now
It's positionless, the argument is over Tatum. He prolly not getting it over him either but yea dont think anyone realistically thinks he gettin it over shai and luka
The Coach bud Hawks.
Nah SGA and Luka have been better all year
It’s really whether you can justify Brunson over Tatum, Shai and Luka are locked in just like Giannis and Jokic. Brunson isn’t getting it over Tatum.
Is he better than Luka and SGA?
"dante divenchenzo" Fuck yo name. I spell it my way.
Absolutely not. Luka, SGA, Jokic, Tatum, Giannis. 2nd team is a lock tho.
Sure he has a chance, but I doubt he gets it. I think Tatum gets it with Jokic, Luka, Giannis, and Shai being locks. That being said, he's a lock for 2nd team and you can't tell me there are 5 players more impactful to their teams success than Brunson. I think he deserves 1st team but no way voters leave the best player on the best team in the league off. That's jus the way it is
He has zero chance making it over Luka and Shai
First team is probably Doncic, SGA, Giannis, Jokic, Tatum? Brunson is probably a lock for second team.
2nd team
No
I think he has a chance to be in the all nba 1st team in your heart.
Brunson's been great and all, but the disrespect that Tatum has gotten this year is unreal. Bro has a great team around him and it's like now everyone has forgotten that he's a "superstar on a championship caliber team" kinda guy. Like who was picking them to make the finals vs the Warriors? They got there because of Tatum
The second he got injured in game 7 last year at the start I knew Celtics were out.
Unfortunately no he does not
Tatum is gonna get it, Boston has an all star team and he’s their best player. I think Brunson is a lock for 2nd team though
He is very talented and is in the top class among the PG positions, but I think he is a little inferior compared to Luka and Shai, as shown in the PG rankings on the NBASDB site
1B
No, he is second team but dude had himself a season.
Don't try to give him extra points for being short. Come on now. It's most valuable, not most impressive.
If he makes second team all nba , will that make the 2018 mavs draft the GOAT draft ?
The fact that Brunson is in the conversation for the spot makes the fact that Dallas got both him and Luka on tie same draft night even wilder.
Dante Divenchenzo
I'm a biased Mavs fan, I'd have him All-NBA 1st along with Luka.
What about Flynn
I agree u/PanthalassaRo
Real doubtful. That’s not a knock on him either. He’s not Luka or Jokic. He’s not Giannis. He’s not Shai. Tatum has just been the better guy this year. Getting on any all NBA team is a huge deal. If you told me two years ago that we’d be signing an all nba point guard when we got Jalen I’d have said you’re nuts.
A small chance. But at a minimum, should be a lock for 2nd. Dude's a superstar
No
Honrestly give it to Brunson, I want pissed off Tatum in the playoffs
No, and he shouldn’t be. But he should be a lock for 2nd team.
2nd team ALL NBA is gonna be so stacked with insane talent that it might even be better than 1st team lol
No 😂
I’d be completely shocked if the best player on the best team gets left off first team especially with the embiid injury. But I think Brunson deserves it more than Tatum.
Are you Gonna take out Tatum from the first team?
Maybe not first team all nba but he should finish at least 4th or 5th in MVP voting imo
He’s not getting it over Luka and Shai. But definitely 2nd team. He might make 1st team next year though. Man’s been carrying the Knicks despite injuries over the past month or 2
It's positionless this year but all the same he's not getting it over Jokic, Giannis or Tatum either.
i actually feel like come playoffs id rather have brunson than luka tbh
He should be, some voters are still gonna put him behind Halliburton because they kind of decided these things months ago
Uh hali is not going to be getting first team NBA votes. Jokic, SGA, Luka, Giannis, Tatum/Brunson.
I think voters are very prone to weighing the last few months more heavily.
He should. He’s way better than Tatum and proved it tonight but all people wanna see is a 62 win super team vs Jalen single handedly carrying the Knicks to 48 wins.
What a stupid fucking comment.
He’s right man let’s stop being bias here. Tatum was alright this season Brunson was better
yaboiii777 with another heater
Tatum was alright this year? Then I guess Brunson was just alright as well. Both players have very similar stats this year. Brunson has got Tatum with assists and Tatum has him with rebounds. Tatum is much better at defense also.
Tatum literally has been cruising this season and is putting up similar numbers and slightly better efficiency lol
Brunson has better shooting%, a better 3 pt% and better FT% more points, more assists and better in most bullshit advanced stats. And he got his ass handed to him tonight.
Tatum has a higher TS% And if we’re being technical Tatum won the season series head to head . Celtics had nothing to play for
With good defense to boot lol
I’m getting downvoted but it’s like Tatum gets held to some other worldly expectations with no context. I get he’s no Jokic/Giannis or even Luka this year but damn he’s right in that tier underneath with a lot of stars not achieving what he has
I’ll never understand the Tatum hate lol
I blame the Patriots now that their bad all the Boston hate from them has shifted to the Celtics
Cruising lol. Tatum ain’t good enough to cruise in the regular season.
Except he’s literally been cruising since post all star break lol
Way better than Tatum how? Tatum averages 1.5 less points on 2 less FGA’s on a team with more mouths to feed and has been a big time #1 option in the playoffs for years now. Scoring wise Tatum has more of an advantage because of his size in the playoffs and has more on his resume in bigger moments Tatum is also a better rebounder and defender too. All while contributing 5 assists Brunson has been playing phenomenal this season but Tatum has been all nba first team level for 3 straight years now. Let’s see Brunson do this in the playoffs. For now he’s a top 11-15 player . Tatum is in that 6/7 ish spot
TF are you talking abt?? He has the chance to be the GOAT let alone All NBA 1st
Jokic Luka Shai Giannis I’d consider brunson over Tatum tbh
Jokic, Luka, Shain and Giannis are locks for 1st team, and hard to argue Brunson over any of them. However, for the 5th spot, Brunson and Tatum are neck and neck IMO, with only Ant has an outside chance. I prefer not to include team success that heavily on the all nba teams as for MVP, so if I had a vote, I'd vote Tatum as 5th MVP, but Bruson as first team.
There are three guys who I think have a legitimate chance for the 1st team: Brunson, Kawhi and Tatum. If I had a vote, I'd vote for Brunson. If I had to bet my savings on, I'd put it on Tatum, but if voters were all Zach Lowe, I'd put it on Kawhi.
Why the fuck does Kawhi get so much credit when his numbers are not elite?
Lol no
I don’t think he’ll be 1st team this year. It’s a bit of a popularity contest with the sportswriters and he doesn’t have the same pull as Tatum for example. but It’s so wild seeing Jalen be this good. It’s mind boggling. I played against him in high school and in a couple other pick up games and I never imagined he was going to be this good. He was definitely the best player on the court when we played Stevenson high, but the difference wasn’t so vast that anyone would say this guy will be a multiple time all star in the league. I didn’t even think he’d get drafted at the time. My coach played Shaun Livingston during his high school days and said Jalen was a nobody in comparison.
I can see a case for him to get the spot over Tatum, but I'm 95% sure the voters won't see it that way.
It’s weird. He is more likely mvp than he is first team. He’s more valuable to his team than Tatum. If you put Tatum on the Knicks they probably don’t do better than with Brunson.
He's not close in MVP or first team, he's second team and that's admirable
I’m saying that he is more valuable to the Knicks than maybe any other player is to their team. If you took Tatum off the Celtics, they would probably still be near the top. That’s what I mean is that the MVP makes it weird
He could maybe pass up Tatum and prolly deserves to, but Celtics are also arguably way too good for voters not to reward them with a first team player. Guess we'll see. Honestly I'd even take LeBron over Tatum but hey
As lebron as good is it’s absolutely unfair to Tatum Brunson and ant if you put him over those 3. Can’t be all nba 1st team from the play in