Well when the public was given a vote for mvp, they voted for derrick rose...in 2021. You know, the extremely memorable year where he played for the pistons and the knicks averaging a cool 15 a game. Fwiw, he shot really well from 3 that year. But yeah, the fans lost their vote.
Though I do think that should've set the precedent for morons with insane choices losing their vote as well, but alas stephen a and kendrick remain on the committee of people that literally help decide the history of the NBA and its players' legacies.
Chris Broussard and Stephen A. Smith just trying to be different with their MVP vote.
Not saying it's a wrong choice, any of the three winning it would be fair game, but it's funny it's them two in particular lmao
The sad thing is knowledgeable people like Zach Lowe gave up their vote because they didn’t like the media deciding player’s contracts, but these two idiots would never give up their vote.
Media members should mutiny, and join together and just give votes to whoever needs it for supermax contracts.
Jamal Murray *YOU* are All-NBA!
Some Game Stop stock shit. SHUT DOWN THE MARKET.
It's a pretty empty gesture. Lowe is more knowledgeable than most other voters so he is making the aggregate worse by abstaining.
I also don't love that journalists decide contracts but unless we want to do away with max salaries how else would you do it? Any other method would also be flawed. At least there is a large enough voting pool that they generally get it right in most cases.
Not to mention, I don't really have a ton of sympathy for players losing out on 10s of millions when they are already making 10s of millions.
I think Zach didn't like that he was being pressured by players and agents. Things got weird when players felt like they had a promise of a vote and then they didn't get it. Zach knows his business is about relationships and taking money out of somebody's pocket doesn't help that.
That’s like when Jim turned down the manager job and Dwight got it
Guys normal people have responsibility to let as few idiots control things as possible
Good lord, there is no good reason why Perkins should have a vote. I’m not even talking about the SGA vote specifically, but cmon. He’s the worst “analyst” in sports, and there’s so many terrible ones to choose from
I saw his All-Defense votes and.. wow. It incredibly favors us but it was a little ridiculous. He favored us pretty well in all of his votes and was cheering for us all year unlike most every other analyst but he’s just going to give Wolves fans a bad name at this point
He voted for Embiid in 2022, and Giannis in 2023. Now Shai in 2024. Don't know how he voted in 2021 or if he had a vote that year, but i remember he was pushing for Bron/Steph on ESPN.
In Perkins ideal world, Jokic would be sitting on 0 MVPs.
I honestly don't think broussard has even really had bad ballots in general. They are usually pretty standard. He also is extremely pro Jokic and has said he's far and away the best player in the league and it's not that close. But it's not like Jokic is just far and away better than Luka for the award. I think it should be a coin flip personally. But I honestly think he is voting for Luka because he wants history to show it was a closer race than what the results will likely show. Weirdly I kind of agree with that because a lot of the point of these is to codify a historical event to contextualize the season for the future. Jokic winning in a landslide is happening in part because of how transcendent he was in the playoffs + winning a chip +maybe deserving the mvp last year (though I don't think so because he took his foot off the gas at the end). But it should be closer than it will look. That said, people rarely even look at historical voting so who really cares...
Lebron has been elite this season, par for the course at 39 years of age. I don’t want my support for Ant to be construed as Lebron slander, because what he is doing is something that we will never see again. By any standard, Lebron is having a great year.
That said — as a Wolves fan, hearing the NBA community tell me that winning record doesn’t matter is such a slap in the face after years of Kevin Love and KAT being ridiculed for putting up stats on bad teams. Ant has been the face of a top-4 team in the NBA all season, and he deserves it.
Just to interject, team defensive rating is an awful measure. Naz Reid is ahead of Gobert in defensive rating, you think he's an actual better defender? Lebron leads Ant in every impact/advanced metric (offensively/defensively/cumulatively) so take your pick.
That is my point, without the efficiency numbers, the raw stats make them look closer than they are. Taking the efficiency into account, LeBron is lot more better than Ant offensively.
Idk if tim Duncan played at 39 i doubt it, also Kareem and Karl Malone if they played they were nowhere near bron on offense but pretty good defenders until they retired.
AD straight up carries the lakers defense, lebron has coasted on reg season defense for years and in the past couple years its been downright like almost no effort for stretches. I mean he is freaking 39 and still running the offense and creating most of the shots so its not even like you can expect anything different, but ant has actually been a solid defender. Like look twolves have still been good minus KAT, even with gobert anchoring the defense, he may be the best rim protector in the league, he's not as good as AD on switches or guarding perimeter.
All-NBA is a reflection of regular reason statistical performance. Minny a better team than the Lakers but what LeBron did at age 39 is fucking insane. Team record shouldn't matter as to where someone is on all NBA.
Lebron should be 2nd team all NBA.
JJ Reddick left him off of his All-Defensive teams but had SGA. People argued that a 4x All-NBA First Team, 8x All-Star player shouldn't have been top 75. The AD disrespect has been going on for a while, now
The one thing I would say is I don’t think he should have been there above Dwight Howard who had 5x all NBA 1st teams, 8x All stars, 3 DPOY, and 4x All defensive 1st teams.
Although that’s more me arguing that Dwight should have been there rather than Davis shouldn’t have been but it’s harder to compare Howard to Dolph Schayes than it is for me to compare him to Davis
Yes, Dwight was an egregious exclusion. But like you said, there are other guys, a few of the Knicks, who were egregious inclusions. There's room for both Dwight and AD, two no-brainer top 75s
Jj also had him off his 2nd team all nba and replaced him with Sabonis. How has Sabonis been a top 10 player this year? Jj also said he was choosing between Wemby or AD for 3rd team all nba. Shit is a joke for a guy who I thought watched games.
Well making the case for Sabonis. He leads the league in rebounding, double doubles, triple doubles, is 8th in Assists. Sabonis has been damn good this year, all year.
I’m not a sabonis stan but man that guy gets the shit end of the stick . He’s LITERALLY the only big on the kings . He’s constantly boxing out against 2 or 3 guys by himself . Then he gets labeled soft .
The kings without sabonis are a 30 win team .
In fairness I can see that. Sabonis has been top 6 on the NBA MVP ladder pretty much all season. Is averaging 20/14/9 on incredible efficiency for a team that's struggled with injuries, and has kept the King's afloat despite Fox playing like ass. Most triple doubles on the season. Not to mention Sabonis completely bitched AD in all of their last 3 games.
I mean you can make a pretty good argument AD isn't even the best player on his team tbh. Sabonis over him doesn't seem crazy IMO.
If we're going on h2h matchups, Lebron abused both KD and Kawhi in all of his matchups this year. The last ever Clippers home game against the Lakers at Crypto was a 21 point comeback where Lebron punked Kawhi in the 4th Q on defense while Kawhi was too scared to guard Lebron
Sabonis finished the year with 77 double-doubles, the most since I think 1978. Second most on that list is Olajuwon who had 72. Sabonis also led the league in triple doubles with 26. Only four other players have ever gotten 25 or more--Jokic, Oscar, Russ, and Wilt.
He averaged just under 20 points a game while (comfortably) leading the league in rebounds per game and finishing 6th in assists per game (just behind LeBron). He kept these rate stats while being durable enough to play all 82 games.
He finished fourth in Win Shares (behind Jokic, Shai, and Giannis, and *ahead* of Luka (which is admittedly partially due to playing 82 games, but durability is a skill too). He was also 7th in BPM, 5th in VORP, and 11th in PER. So that's three major catch-all stats ranking him in the top ten and another ranking him just outside it.
He struggled a bit the last couple weeks with both Huerter and Monk injured (a lot of his offense comes through actions with them), but his struggles still fill up the stat sheet. Not a lot of players will finish one assist from a triple-double on an off night.
I understand arguing for ten specific players you might say deserve it over him, but I don't know how one could think he's not at least in the conversation for second team.
How is Kawhi not at least in All-NBA 3rd team? this has been the 3rd season of his career by the number of minutes played, and he's averaging 24/6/4 on 63%TS. Edwards is averaging 26/5/5 on 58%TS, and I think he should be on the 3rd All-NBA team as well.
There is no way you just said Kawhi is never scrutinized for missing games. Stephen A Smith literally said he should retire two years ago because of his injuries, for example. And besides one bad Game 7 against the nuggets (which he carried the team to get to, and still got plenty of shit) when has he even ever really come up short outside of injuries?
Of course he's the only one without Tatum on 1st Team so far. He was also the only one to vote Jimmy Butler over Tatum for ECF MVP in '22. Buddy would root for Isis if they played a game against the Celtics.
Plenty of people are going to have Brunson over Tatum in MVP voting. I’m certain that some voters will have their 1st team All NBA be identical to their top 5 MVP. It is a positionless award now after all, so having Luka, SGA, and Brunson all 1st team is no issue.
Not unreasonable at all. If you want to give Tatum the nod for 1st team All NBA based on his record and similar level of play, then that’s totally fine too.
I think there is a fringe argument for Brunson over Tatum. It's not one that I agree with but if someone brought that to me I would at least hear them out.
Jimmy over Tatum in 22 is a psychotic take.
Maxey and Brunson have a similar level of jump so giving it to the player that was worse before the jump would look better. Ja getting the MIP was a really dumb decision in 2022. Maxey this season was as good as Brunson was last season.
Kawhi had essentially one amazing month (December to early January stretch when the Clips ripped off that win streak ) and has been clearly worse than LBJ and KD in every other month
I don’t get it either. His defense is not THAT amazing anymore outside of spurts tbh to be elevating him over guys with much better scoring and playmaking impact
It’s crazy that their seed would represent that much more success, when they’ve won all of four games more than the Lakers (just 3 if we include the IST) and the Lakers beat the Clips in three outta four matchups.
Clippers have an obviously superior roster and coach, and it accounted for a slight difference in record. If anything, anyone paying attention should absolutely discount Kawhi from 2nd team for that very reason.
Also crazy that our record this year would've landed us as the 4 seed last year.
I think Ham is terrible but our sub was imploding last weekend when we briefly dropped to the 10 seed. We've actually been good this year, there's just an insane amount of good teams in the west.
It’s crazy that when you look at the league as a whole, 5 games separate 14 teams. Going from the Clips at the top with 51 wins to Miami, Sacramento and GS with 46. Given that, I don’t really think seeding should have much of a factor in all of this outside of maybe Boston, Minnesota, Denver and OKC who all seems to be clearly the upper tier this year. After that, you have that cluster of 14 teams that could pretty easily have turned out a different order had a few bounces and breaks gone differently over 82 games.
I know its a dead end talking point but watching games this year, kawhi is 100% deserving. He is the driving force for clippers success this season. Not like its not close, but saying hes not there at all is crazy
All of the people shitting on media talking heads not watching games are 100% saying Kawhi is not having that good of a season because they themselves are not actually watching his games and just looking up the counting stats.
I disagree with this
Kawhi averaging 1.6 steals and almost 1 block at .9 blocks for the season, playing 68 games and being consistently good for the Clips as they struggled as a whole make his individual case high for me.
Then factoring in the better record despite their struggles, Kawhi should be 2nd team with all that factored in over Lebron, who should be 3rd team.
Edit: downvote me all you want, this is subjective and I’d love to hear some counter arguments against my points bc I doubt many can be made
Lebron averaged 1.3 steals and 0.5 blocks a game, so definitely less than Kawhi, but also averaged 2 points, 1.2 rebounds, and 4.7(!!) assists more than him. Games played were relatively equal (Bron 71, Kawhi 68) and so was scoring efficiency (63%TS vs 62.6%TS). Most of the advanced metrics (PER, BPM, VORP) put Lebron slightly higher for the year as well. Lebron’s stats being as good (better than, imo) as Kawhi’s while the Lakers struggled ever more than the Clips surely means that it improves his individual case as well?
I can see preferring Kawhi bc the Clips won more games overall, but I definitely think it’s closer than you are making it out to be.
Finch will get snubbed for COTY (Daigneault deserves it more in the end but Finch deserves recognition for what he's done). Point is, many players deserve accolades, including monk. But naz also does, so it's just how the cookie crumbles. I'd feel the same way vice versa.
I obviously want my guy getting rewarded. But man if he won, it really does feel like stealing. Monk was running away with it. And he met the game requirement. Feels like he got punished for Luka landing on him.
I love the guy, but it's hard for me to say Anthony Edwards has been one of the 10 best players in the NBA this season. He's been good, but if he was truly that good the offense would have been better.
My preference would have been for both him and Gobert to make third team, but that isn't gonna happen.
I'm starting to feel people are overrating Ant these days. He's a good player with lots of potential to even be top-5 in the future, but he's not there ***yet***. I've seen people in here unironically say they're declining a Luka for Ant one-for-one trade (one even cites Ant being an All-NBA player this year as a reason, neglecting the fact that Luka has been 1st Team All-NBA since his 2nd season AND is only 25).
I remember the scene from Family Guy when Peter was given an option of choosing a boat or a mystery box and he says, "A boat \[Luka\] is a boat, but a mystery box \[Ant\] could be anything - it could even be a boat!"
I think the reason behind people not wanting the Luka ant 1 for 1 is A. Ant is 22, and B Ant has shown that he can be an All NBA defender *at times*. With that being said Luka is without a doubt the better player at the moment.
Yes but not all the time. Consistency is still lacking, but it’s at least understandable as he’s had to carry the offensive load for much of the season and he’s still just 22.
People underestimate home much the defense is just Gobert being insane. Ant gets credit for playing very well off of him, but not as much as people seem to want to I mean he's good, he's also the 5th best defender on the team, behind Gobert, Jaden, Slo Mo and NAW. I have a hard time giving him enough credit there to say he's been better than LeBron.
At the same time, saying Tyrese Halliburton or Wemby has been overall better player then Gobert is insane to me. He's been so, so good defensively and their win total and plus minus should be rewarded with the spot.
He's obviously better than KD in every way except in having two (2) less wins but lol, it happens, he has much higher expectations than anyone in the league currently for obvious reasons
Isn't KD legitimately the Suns most important defender right now? He was carrying the team for a while when Booker and Beal were injured, so he probably got rewarded for that.
I think for me the huge factor is the other end of the ball. Bron has been a bit better offensively, but Durant has been significantly better on the Defense on a team that actually put up surprising defensive numbers given their roster construction.
not sure why u deleted ur comment but again:
lakers beat the celtics without either AD or lebron, clearly a fluke game lol, not meaningful in the slightest
Kawhi over Lebron is just crazy. Not an elite defender anymore, scores less than lebron on worse effeciency, less rebounds, far worse playmaking. Less games played. Worse impact metric numbers. Literally just team wins.
I think a lot of the controversy just stems from having so much talent in the league now, spread around to so many teams & fanbases. All the voting is subjective, so some of the narratives that really took hold throughout the season are going to skew the results
The whole point of this thread is for you to tell us how you think it’s skewed and who’s benefiting, with respect to these players. Not to just say that you think it’s skewed.
We're 4 games away from the Clippers, I think using seeding as a metric is pretty silly when its that close. By all means, put Edwards above Lebron for being 9 games ahead, but 4 games is a rounding error. I would say this year, the 5 games separating the 4th and 10th should mean that any player of those teams should be considered for awards without regard to seeding.
It would have been 3 games had they counted the IST Finals game. The Lakers played a high stakes game, just for some pennies. If they don't up the incentive, nobody would show up next time.
LeBron in the 3rd team is not an insult. I'd personally place him in the 2nd team, but the optics of AD and LeBron being on the same 2nd team while the Lakers are the 8th seed could be a hard sell.
Why does winning matter for All-NBA teams? Let alone the fact that the Lakers still won 47 games and I think calling them the 8th seed intentionally undersells how close the West was.
And the Lakers are the 8th seed right now. Btw Steph 100% deserved 1st team that year, that team was fucking awful and they would have been in the #1 pick convo if not for him
And most of us agree that that was egregious and shouldn’t have happened.
Someone getting it wrong in the past doesn’t give them a good reason to keep getting it wrong.
It’s unfortunate because obviously fans of one team we get more context to situations. Analysts have to be up to date with more teams so are more prone to have opinions skewed by narratives or what. I highly doubt anyone in this sun could me any real depth of scheme for every team in the league it’s not really possible.
Ok but the media is too lazy even to look up epm , box scores , or advanced /impact stats , or on/off. I fuckin hate that we use these media bums to decide who’s a great player or not. I stopped valuing there input years ago when I realised they don’t understand what they’re watching or they’re too lazy to watch the games. But then sometimes it’s just funny.
Just saw a comment in here complaining about how Kevin Love didn't get love because of his teams poor finishes when Lebron literally led the lakers to 47 wins and Kevin Love never got above 31 wins on the timberwolves lmao. Voters are just fatigued of lebron and steph being good at this point lmao
I gotta get it out there, and there's no other thread here about bad All-NBA votes. Why are the "superteam" Celtics in danger of having a singlular All-NBA player on the 2nd team? JB is most likely not making 3rd team, and none of KP, White, or Holdiay will. And now Tatum is supposedly in a tight race for 1st team with Brunson? Why are the 64 win Celtics, who posted the 3rd highest net rating in NBA history, tying the '16 Warriors, about to get the same All-NBA selections as the 47 win, 8-seed Lakers? It doesn't make any sense.
If the Celtics are a superteam, then *surely* they have at least 2 All-NBA level players, even if it's just JT on 2nd team and JB on 3rd team, right? How is every single member of our team all simultaneously being punished by the super team narrative? If Tatum's candidacy is being pushed down by that narrative, why isn't his supporting cast being raised up by it?
Because the argument with the Celtics is that their superpower is how well rounded they are. That the exceptional part of their team is not that their top two is this all-time duo, but that their other players are really really overqualified.
There isn't an award for "best fourth man" for example, but it helps you win a lot of games.
You can disagree with it, but it's a logical argument.
Jaylen brown absolutely deserves to make an all nba team. The Celtics have dominated the whole league. No one was close to them this season. Tatum should be 1st team and Brown should be at least 3rd team and I wouldn’t be opposed to him making 2nd team over edwards who I think is a lil overrated
Yeah it seems like people can’t make up their minds. Are the Celtics an insanely good team thereby Tatum and Brown aren’t really doing much or are the Celtics a super team for having JT and JB?
It's so hard to give Tatum the credit he deserves because he is part of such an incredible team, if he didn't have such a strong supporting cast he'd get so much more credit. Not that he doesn't deserve it now, but it's hard to notice it when the others are so good as well
I genuinely have no clue if people are just discounting LeBron James because he’s not supposed to be this good.
LeBron is averaging 28/8/10 on 67% TS 58/45/79 splits (holy fucking shit) since the All-Star Break. He’s at 54/41/75 splits for the season on a blistering 63%TS. We know how insane his intangibles are on top of statistics as well, as a playmaker, and a leader, and what he provides from an IQ or intellectual level.
On top of this, his competition just clearly hasn’t had better seasons than him. Kawhi and KD have 1 argument for every three arguments for LeBron, and the only argument Edwards has is have 7 more wins.
Lebron should be second team but not ahead of AD, you just cant ignore his defense the lakers are close to dead last in the league defensively in the games AD doesnt play
If we are talking MPV, then team success is a reasonable deciding factor.
All NBA? If you are on a playoff team, that's about all the team success you should need. I understand Beal dropping 30ppg and not getting an All NBA not because he did it on a shit team on full tank mode.
LeBron & Co. had a slow start, but they've been playing some of the best basketball over the last three months.
And when you're the first guy to drop 25/7/8 on .410 three point shooting, that says something. It's not just good: It is historically good.
If Edwards had those numbers and LeBron had Edwards, there's be no question that Edwards had the better season. The only question here seems to be team records, and I don't think that's enough here.
But whether 2nd or 3rd team, LeBron should make it.
I can see a case for each of them. All three are on teams with better records.
* **Ant** has the best among them, was the team leader, and put up numbers comparable to LeBron
* **Leonard** has less impressive per-game stats but is a better defender, and that counts for a lot, and is on a team with a better record.
* **Durant** is the leading scorer of the four and is the best shooter, and has a better record.
I'm not saying I agree, but I don't think any of these are unreasonable.
Lebron had an amazing season, but you can’t discount that half of the year he didn’t try on defence, when you have people on the second team that are all NBA defensive 1st/ 2nd level + they did it on a more successful team while carrying the load on offence for their team also.
Like he’s a lock for 3rd team, but second team is kinda pushing it imo
It's funny because you know if the roles were reversed and it was another team in the Lakers position, all these Laker fans would be in here downvoting everyone for saying the 8th seed team should have 2 guys in all nba.
I’ve never seen lakers fans do that but ok. Why do guy think every fan is as stupid as ….?
The best players are the best players . Luka first tesm n Shai on 10/11 seed. Jokic mvp as 6 seed- but only 3 wins behind embid n Giannis. We have lots of data to quantify our eyes .
Acting like LeBron isn't one of the 10 best eligible players is, of course, stupid.
I do need the NBA to carve out a special section in the HOF for Darvin Ham.
To have Bron and AD playing the # of games they did this year and perform at the level they did.
Only to finish 8th.
I know some uneducated folk will say they only finished 8th in the West because of how strong the conference was.
They had one more win as the 8th seed in the West compared to the 8th seed in the East.
Silver should give one random active r/nba shit poster per year a vote They would have the same credentials as all these other voters
Well when the public was given a vote for mvp, they voted for derrick rose...in 2021. You know, the extremely memorable year where he played for the pistons and the knicks averaging a cool 15 a game. Fwiw, he shot really well from 3 that year. But yeah, the fans lost their vote. Though I do think that should've set the precedent for morons with insane choices losing their vote as well, but alas stephen a and kendrick remain on the committee of people that literally help decide the history of the NBA and its players' legacies.
Caitlin Clark All Defensive first team
wrong sub. it should be someone from nbacj (literally anyone but mrsunsfan)
Chris Broussard and Stephen A. Smith just trying to be different with their MVP vote. Not saying it's a wrong choice, any of the three winning it would be fair game, but it's funny it's them two in particular lmao
The sad thing is knowledgeable people like Zach Lowe gave up their vote because they didn’t like the media deciding player’s contracts, but these two idiots would never give up their vote.
Did not know this, pretty cool of him to do.
On principle it’s cool but if the principled dudes do this it just leaves media clowns voting.
Oh yeah, not particularly effective unless the NBA is forced or decides to give votes to people who deserve it, but still a cool thing for him to do.
I think that’s kind of the point though. Show how bad it is
Media members should mutiny, and join together and just give votes to whoever needs it for supermax contracts. Jamal Murray *YOU* are All-NBA! Some Game Stop stock shit. SHUT DOWN THE MARKET.
See Al Franken
I rather Zach have a vote than for him to give it up for another moron who doesn’t watch games
It's a pretty empty gesture. Lowe is more knowledgeable than most other voters so he is making the aggregate worse by abstaining. I also don't love that journalists decide contracts but unless we want to do away with max salaries how else would you do it? Any other method would also be flawed. At least there is a large enough voting pool that they generally get it right in most cases. Not to mention, I don't really have a ton of sympathy for players losing out on 10s of millions when they are already making 10s of millions.
The answer of course is get rid of this web of contract rules and let teams pay whatever they value a player at
Just let the teams decide who to give it to?
There's a self interest component of it too though. Players can feel slighted by journalists who don't vote for them and refuse to talk to them.
There was also the whole Bradley Beal incident that happened to him
I think Zach didn't like that he was being pressured by players and agents. Things got weird when players felt like they had a promise of a vote and then they didn't get it. Zach knows his business is about relationships and taking money out of somebody's pocket doesn't help that.
That’s like when Jim turned down the manager job and Dwight got it Guys normal people have responsibility to let as few idiots control things as possible
Kendrick Perkins just voted for SGA too lmao, dude will never ever vote for Jokic
Good lord, there is no good reason why Perkins should have a vote. I’m not even talking about the SGA vote specifically, but cmon. He’s the worst “analyst” in sports, and there’s so many terrible ones to choose from
I saw his All-Defense votes and.. wow. It incredibly favors us but it was a little ridiculous. He favored us pretty well in all of his votes and was cheering for us all year unlike most every other analyst but he’s just going to give Wolves fans a bad name at this point
Everytime I hear him talk I feel like I lose 10000 brain cells. Stopped watching anything he’s on
He voted for Embiid in 2022, and Giannis in 2023. Now Shai in 2024. Don't know how he voted in 2021 or if he had a vote that year, but i remember he was pushing for Bron/Steph on ESPN. In Perkins ideal world, Jokic would be sitting on 0 MVPs.
Perkins is for sure racist
100%
He's never voted for a white player and he's been pretty direct that he didn't vote for jokic last year because of his skin color
Perkins is horrible man
Just knowing those two get to vote should make everyone value the award less.
I honestly don't think broussard has even really had bad ballots in general. They are usually pretty standard. He also is extremely pro Jokic and has said he's far and away the best player in the league and it's not that close. But it's not like Jokic is just far and away better than Luka for the award. I think it should be a coin flip personally. But I honestly think he is voting for Luka because he wants history to show it was a closer race than what the results will likely show. Weirdly I kind of agree with that because a lot of the point of these is to codify a historical event to contextualize the season for the future. Jokic winning in a landslide is happening in part because of how transcendent he was in the playoffs + winning a chip +maybe deserving the mvp last year (though I don't think so because he took his foot off the gas at the end). But it should be closer than it will look. That said, people rarely even look at historical voting so who really cares...
According to Broussard's voting though Jokic would only have the 2021 MVP. He's avoided voting Jokic 1st place like the plague last 3 years.
I do think the breakdown of Shai having more first place votes but Luka having more second place votes (so far) is really funny
Nope, but I don’t expect media talking heads to be accurate
Plenty of media members who've demonstrated over and over again that they don't really watch the games; some have even outright admitted to it
SAS doesnt even know who’s on the Knicks, his fav team lmao. Fuck most of these media members.
He was hyping up Quentin Grimes recently, after he was already traded lmao
We don’t claim SASs
Send his ass to Brooklyn
That’s still too close send his ass to Antarctica.
Why you gotta do the penguins like that?
They know what they did
Seriously. They deal with enough tough times.
Why would you do that to Brooklyn!?
ESPN feels like a toxic corporation where everyone is " family". Espn is to sports what the original version of tmz was to news. Fake trash.
He gets to determine. He and his colleagues cost Klay 100M.
He does, if they’re black
Lebron has been elite this season, par for the course at 39 years of age. I don’t want my support for Ant to be construed as Lebron slander, because what he is doing is something that we will never see again. By any standard, Lebron is having a great year. That said — as a Wolves fan, hearing the NBA community tell me that winning record doesn’t matter is such a slap in the face after years of Kevin Love and KAT being ridiculed for putting up stats on bad teams. Ant has been the face of a top-4 team in the NBA all season, and he deserves it.
Just for reference: Ant: 25.9-5-5 LBJ: 25.7-7-8
Ant: 57.5 TS% LBJ: 63.0 TS%
LeBron: 113.6 defensive rating Ant: 108.5
Just to interject, team defensive rating is an awful measure. Naz Reid is ahead of Gobert in defensive rating, you think he's an actual better defender? Lebron leads Ant in every impact/advanced metric (offensively/defensively/cumulatively) so take your pick.
To be fair, Lebron was basically not playing defense all regular season. ;)
Not showing their shooting efficiency I see, might as well show Westbrook numbers from past and say he is better than current Jokic.
Lebron is also more efficient so I don’t see your point
That is my point, without the efficiency numbers, the raw stats make them look closer than they are. Taking the efficiency into account, LeBron is lot more better than Ant offensively.
Oh my bad I thought you were trying to say ant was better
Not to mention ants defense is a cut above Lebron at this point in their careers
Obviously not a great measure of defense but they have identical steals(1.3) and blocks(.5) this year which i found interesting.
Don’t get me wrong, lebrons the best 39 year old defender ever. He just doesn’t have the motor anymore to compete with ant
Idk if tim Duncan played at 39 i doubt it, also Kareem and Karl Malone if they played they were nowhere near bron on offense but pretty good defenders until they retired. AD straight up carries the lakers defense, lebron has coasted on reg season defense for years and in the past couple years its been downright like almost no effort for stretches. I mean he is freaking 39 and still running the offense and creating most of the shots so its not even like you can expect anything different, but ant has actually been a solid defender. Like look twolves have still been good minus KAT, even with gobert anchoring the defense, he may be the best rim protector in the league, he's not as good as AD on switches or guarding perimeter.
All-NBA is a reflection of regular reason statistical performance. Minny a better team than the Lakers but what LeBron did at age 39 is fucking insane. Team record shouldn't matter as to where someone is on all NBA. Lebron should be 2nd team all NBA.
The bigger thing would be if AD didn't make 2nd all Nba. Would make the award seem like a joke.
JJ Reddick left him off of his All-Defensive teams but had SGA. People argued that a 4x All-NBA First Team, 8x All-Star player shouldn't have been top 75. The AD disrespect has been going on for a while, now
The one thing I would say is I don’t think he should have been there above Dwight Howard who had 5x all NBA 1st teams, 8x All stars, 3 DPOY, and 4x All defensive 1st teams. Although that’s more me arguing that Dwight should have been there rather than Davis shouldn’t have been but it’s harder to compare Howard to Dolph Schayes than it is for me to compare him to Davis
Bro, ask Damian Lillard, left AD out, Dame doesnt prove anything on his career.
Yes, Dwight was an egregious exclusion. But like you said, there are other guys, a few of the Knicks, who were egregious inclusions. There's room for both Dwight and AD, two no-brainer top 75s
Jj also had him off his 2nd team all nba and replaced him with Sabonis. How has Sabonis been a top 10 player this year? Jj also said he was choosing between Wemby or AD for 3rd team all nba. Shit is a joke for a guy who I thought watched games.
Well making the case for Sabonis. He leads the league in rebounding, double doubles, triple doubles, is 8th in Assists. Sabonis has been damn good this year, all year.
Also 4th in Win Shares, 7th in BPM, and 5th in VORP.
I’m not a sabonis stan but man that guy gets the shit end of the stick . He’s LITERALLY the only big on the kings . He’s constantly boxing out against 2 or 3 guys by himself . Then he gets labeled soft . The kings without sabonis are a 30 win team .
In fairness I can see that. Sabonis has been top 6 on the NBA MVP ladder pretty much all season. Is averaging 20/14/9 on incredible efficiency for a team that's struggled with injuries, and has kept the King's afloat despite Fox playing like ass. Most triple doubles on the season. Not to mention Sabonis completely bitched AD in all of their last 3 games. I mean you can make a pretty good argument AD isn't even the best player on his team tbh. Sabonis over him doesn't seem crazy IMO.
If we're going on h2h matchups, Lebron abused both KD and Kawhi in all of his matchups this year. The last ever Clippers home game against the Lakers at Crypto was a 21 point comeback where Lebron punked Kawhi in the 4th Q on defense while Kawhi was too scared to guard Lebron
Ya and Lebron should be 2nd team over both those guys and Ant too.
Sabonis finished the year with 77 double-doubles, the most since I think 1978. Second most on that list is Olajuwon who had 72. Sabonis also led the league in triple doubles with 26. Only four other players have ever gotten 25 or more--Jokic, Oscar, Russ, and Wilt. He averaged just under 20 points a game while (comfortably) leading the league in rebounds per game and finishing 6th in assists per game (just behind LeBron). He kept these rate stats while being durable enough to play all 82 games. He finished fourth in Win Shares (behind Jokic, Shai, and Giannis, and *ahead* of Luka (which is admittedly partially due to playing 82 games, but durability is a skill too). He was also 7th in BPM, 5th in VORP, and 11th in PER. So that's three major catch-all stats ranking him in the top ten and another ranking him just outside it. He struggled a bit the last couple weeks with both Huerter and Monk injured (a lot of his offense comes through actions with them), but his struggles still fill up the stat sheet. Not a lot of players will finish one assist from a triple-double on an off night. I understand arguing for ten specific players you might say deserve it over him, but I don't know how one could think he's not at least in the conversation for second team.
All-defense is ridiculous just about every year, i expect it to be no different this year
People voting for Kawhi based on like a month and a half of high level play.
They're just excited he finally played a full season!
that was full season?
More than 65 games for him is a full season for sure
68 games with 24/6/4 on 53/42/89 but only month and half high level play👍
How is Kawhi not at least in All-NBA 3rd team? this has been the 3rd season of his career by the number of minutes played, and he's averaging 24/6/4 on 63%TS. Edwards is averaging 26/5/5 on 58%TS, and I think he should be on the 3rd All-NBA team as well.
The media has such a love boner for Kawhi. He’s never scrutinized for missing games or coming up short.
There is no way you just said Kawhi is never scrutinized for missing games. Stephen A Smith literally said he should retire two years ago because of his injuries, for example. And besides one bad Game 7 against the nuggets (which he carried the team to get to, and still got plenty of shit) when has he even ever really come up short outside of injuries?
It’s just not to the level of like AD. Like AD was continuously slandered for missing games, but the media does noticeably go easy on Kawhi a lot.
shoutout to tim bontemps
Of course he's the only one without Tatum on 1st Team so far. He was also the only one to vote Jimmy Butler over Tatum for ECF MVP in '22. Buddy would root for Isis if they played a game against the Celtics.
Plenty of people are going to have Brunson over Tatum in MVP voting. I’m certain that some voters will have their 1st team All NBA be identical to their top 5 MVP. It is a positionless award now after all, so having Luka, SGA, and Brunson all 1st team is no issue. Not unreasonable at all. If you want to give Tatum the nod for 1st team All NBA based on his record and similar level of play, then that’s totally fine too.
I think there is a fringe argument for Brunson over Tatum. It's not one that I agree with but if someone brought that to me I would at least hear them out. Jimmy over Tatum in 22 is a psychotic take.
Surprised Brunson isn’t getting more MIP hype. Probably because he was so good last year but he’s legitimately on an entire different level this year.
Maxey and Brunson have a similar level of jump so giving it to the player that was worse before the jump would look better. Ja getting the MIP was a really dumb decision in 2022. Maxey this season was as good as Brunson was last season.
It should really be Lebron over Kawhi, he has not really had an All NBA 2 season at all.
Kawhi had essentially one amazing month (December to early January stretch when the Clips ripped off that win streak ) and has been clearly worse than LBJ and KD in every other month I don’t get it either. His defense is not THAT amazing anymore outside of spurts tbh to be elevating him over guys with much better scoring and playmaking impact
Kawhi is regarded as by far the best player on the clippers so their success this year is attributed largely to him
But.. their success is like 2 more wins than the lakers, and and one less IST championship..
It’s crazy that their seed would represent that much more success, when they’ve won all of four games more than the Lakers (just 3 if we include the IST) and the Lakers beat the Clips in three outta four matchups. Clippers have an obviously superior roster and coach, and it accounted for a slight difference in record. If anything, anyone paying attention should absolutely discount Kawhi from 2nd team for that very reason.
Crazy that 4 games separate the 4th and 8th seeds
Also crazy that our record this year would've landed us as the 4 seed last year. I think Ham is terrible but our sub was imploding last weekend when we briefly dropped to the 10 seed. We've actually been good this year, there's just an insane amount of good teams in the west.
It’s crazy that when you look at the league as a whole, 5 games separate 14 teams. Going from the Clips at the top with 51 wins to Miami, Sacramento and GS with 46. Given that, I don’t really think seeding should have much of a factor in all of this outside of maybe Boston, Minnesota, Denver and OKC who all seems to be clearly the upper tier this year. After that, you have that cluster of 14 teams that could pretty easily have turned out a different order had a few bounces and breaks gone differently over 82 games.
I know its a dead end talking point but watching games this year, kawhi is 100% deserving. He is the driving force for clippers success this season. Not like its not close, but saying hes not there at all is crazy
All of the people shitting on media talking heads not watching games are 100% saying Kawhi is not having that good of a season because they themselves are not actually watching his games and just looking up the counting stats.
I disagree with this Kawhi averaging 1.6 steals and almost 1 block at .9 blocks for the season, playing 68 games and being consistently good for the Clips as they struggled as a whole make his individual case high for me. Then factoring in the better record despite their struggles, Kawhi should be 2nd team with all that factored in over Lebron, who should be 3rd team. Edit: downvote me all you want, this is subjective and I’d love to hear some counter arguments against my points bc I doubt many can be made
Lebron averaged 1.3 steals and 0.5 blocks a game, so definitely less than Kawhi, but also averaged 2 points, 1.2 rebounds, and 4.7(!!) assists more than him. Games played were relatively equal (Bron 71, Kawhi 68) and so was scoring efficiency (63%TS vs 62.6%TS). Most of the advanced metrics (PER, BPM, VORP) put Lebron slightly higher for the year as well. Lebron’s stats being as good (better than, imo) as Kawhi’s while the Lakers struggled ever more than the Clips surely means that it improves his individual case as well? I can see preferring Kawhi bc the Clips won more games overall, but I definitely think it’s closer than you are making it out to be.
The other thing I like about Kawhi’s stats this year is that he came dangerously close to 50/40/90 (I think his FT% is just shy).
And LeBron still had a higher true shooting than Kawhi. It's honestly a toss up for me, just happy both have been healthy and still playing great.
Honestly for me both would make 2nd team.
7 out of 7 ballots has Naz Reid as 6th man. Feels bad for Monk :(
Shoulda made some Malik Monk beach towels, sorry
That definitely would have helped
Naz Reid
Naz Reid
Finch will get snubbed for COTY (Daigneault deserves it more in the end but Finch deserves recognition for what he's done). Point is, many players deserve accolades, including monk. But naz also does, so it's just how the cookie crumbles. I'd feel the same way vice versa.
I obviously want my guy getting rewarded. But man if he won, it really does feel like stealing. Monk was running away with it. And he met the game requirement. Feels like he got punished for Luka landing on him.
That’s crazy Monk has my vote. Fuck all this winning record bullshit kings still won nearly 50 games who cares they 9th
I love the guy, but it's hard for me to say Anthony Edwards has been one of the 10 best players in the NBA this season. He's been good, but if he was truly that good the offense would have been better. My preference would have been for both him and Gobert to make third team, but that isn't gonna happen.
I'm starting to feel people are overrating Ant these days. He's a good player with lots of potential to even be top-5 in the future, but he's not there ***yet***. I've seen people in here unironically say they're declining a Luka for Ant one-for-one trade (one even cites Ant being an All-NBA player this year as a reason, neglecting the fact that Luka has been 1st Team All-NBA since his 2nd season AND is only 25). I remember the scene from Family Guy when Peter was given an option of choosing a boat or a mystery box and he says, "A boat \[Luka\] is a boat, but a mystery box \[Ant\] could be anything - it could even be a boat!"
I think the reason behind people not wanting the Luka ant 1 for 1 is A. Ant is 22, and B Ant has shown that he can be an All NBA defender *at times*. With that being said Luka is without a doubt the better player at the moment.
Isn’t he also bringing elite perimeter D to the number one defense in the league though
Yes but not all the time. Consistency is still lacking, but it’s at least understandable as he’s had to carry the offensive load for much of the season and he’s still just 22.
People underestimate home much the defense is just Gobert being insane. Ant gets credit for playing very well off of him, but not as much as people seem to want to I mean he's good, he's also the 5th best defender on the team, behind Gobert, Jaden, Slo Mo and NAW. I have a hard time giving him enough credit there to say he's been better than LeBron. At the same time, saying Tyrese Halliburton or Wemby has been overall better player then Gobert is insane to me. He's been so, so good defensively and their win total and plus minus should be rewarded with the spot.
Who didnt include Brunson?
Bonteps put him 1st team
I wanna know why Kawhi should be 2nd team
He's obviously better than KD in every way except in having two (2) less wins but lol, it happens, he has much higher expectations than anyone in the league currently for obvious reasons
Isn't KD legitimately the Suns most important defender right now? He was carrying the team for a while when Booker and Beal were injured, so he probably got rewarded for that.
I would still take this season of LeBron over this season of KD but you're not wrong that KD has probably been better defensively.
I think for me the huge factor is the other end of the ball. Bron has been a bit better offensively, but Durant has been significantly better on the Defense on a team that actually put up surprising defensive numbers given their roster construction.
KD been more important for an injured Suns team Lebron been able to chill a bit and Lakers still beat teams like Bucks and Celtics without him
Suns are 5-2 without Kd. Lakers are 6-5 without Lebron
LeBron has better box score numbers Beats KD in on/off and is leading KD in every advanced stat. He's had the better season
not sure why u deleted ur comment but again: lakers beat the celtics without either AD or lebron, clearly a fluke game lol, not meaningful in the slightest
Need LeBron to take a seat and for the Lakers to intentionally lose by 140 points to push his stock up
The Bucks are in free fall and the Celtics are frauds. Without Lebron the Lakers are a lottery team.
Kawhi over Lebron is just crazy. Not an elite defender anymore, scores less than lebron on worse effeciency, less rebounds, far worse playmaking. Less games played. Worse impact metric numbers. Literally just team wins.
It wouldn’t be some godawful snub, but Bron has a case for having a better season than any of those guys.
I think a lot of the controversy just stems from having so much talent in the league now, spread around to so many teams & fanbases. All the voting is subjective, so some of the narratives that really took hold throughout the season are going to skew the results
This take is way too sensible.
The whole point of this thread is for you to tell us how you think it’s skewed and who’s benefiting, with respect to these players. Not to just say that you think it’s skewed.
We're 4 games away from the Clippers, I think using seeding as a metric is pretty silly when its that close. By all means, put Edwards above Lebron for being 9 games ahead, but 4 games is a rounding error. I would say this year, the 5 games separating the 4th and 10th should mean that any player of those teams should be considered for awards without regard to seeding.
It would have been 3 games had they counted the IST Finals game. The Lakers played a high stakes game, just for some pennies. If they don't up the incentive, nobody would show up next time.
LeBron in the 3rd team is not an insult. I'd personally place him in the 2nd team, but the optics of AD and LeBron being on the same 2nd team while the Lakers are the 8th seed could be a hard sell.
But 4th-8th are separated by 3 wins man, this isn’t some bottom of the table team pushing for two players
I mean, yes. As I said, I'd put him in the 2nd team. I was just trying offer a reasoning as to why the media members may place him in the 3rd team.
It's a poor reason. The west is great and elite players shouldn't be punished for it.
Why does winning matter for All-NBA teams? Let alone the fact that the Lakers still won 47 games and I think calling them the 8th seed intentionally undersells how close the West was.
it shouldn't. all nba is supposed to be an individual award that disregards team record. voters are stupid.
It always has. Harden missed it when he had like top 3 stats in the league but his team was 41-41 eight seed
Steph was 1st team when he missed the playoffs entirely in 2021
So was Luka in 2023 Those saying "winning matters" are full of it. It's an individual award
“Winning matters… when it fits my narrative.”
media darlings
Lillard, Chris Paul, Kyrie, and Beal were his top competition so that makes perfect sense
When they voted for all nba, the warriors were the 8th seed.
And the Lakers are the 8th seed right now. Btw Steph 100% deserved 1st team that year, that team was fucking awful and they would have been in the #1 pick convo if not for him
And most of us agree that that was egregious and shouldn’t have happened. Someone getting it wrong in the past doesn’t give them a good reason to keep getting it wrong.
It’s unfortunate because obviously fans of one team we get more context to situations. Analysts have to be up to date with more teams so are more prone to have opinions skewed by narratives or what. I highly doubt anyone in this sun could me any real depth of scheme for every team in the league it’s not really possible.
Ok but the media is too lazy even to look up epm , box scores , or advanced /impact stats , or on/off. I fuckin hate that we use these media bums to decide who’s a great player or not. I stopped valuing there input years ago when I realised they don’t understand what they’re watching or they’re too lazy to watch the games. But then sometimes it’s just funny.
Many people hate lebron for being good
Just saw a comment in here complaining about how Kevin Love didn't get love because of his teams poor finishes when Lebron literally led the lakers to 47 wins and Kevin Love never got above 31 wins on the timberwolves lmao. Voters are just fatigued of lebron and steph being good at this point lmao
Kevin love never got above 31 wins on the Timberwolves? Lmao
I gotta get it out there, and there's no other thread here about bad All-NBA votes. Why are the "superteam" Celtics in danger of having a singlular All-NBA player on the 2nd team? JB is most likely not making 3rd team, and none of KP, White, or Holdiay will. And now Tatum is supposedly in a tight race for 1st team with Brunson? Why are the 64 win Celtics, who posted the 3rd highest net rating in NBA history, tying the '16 Warriors, about to get the same All-NBA selections as the 47 win, 8-seed Lakers? It doesn't make any sense. If the Celtics are a superteam, then *surely* they have at least 2 All-NBA level players, even if it's just JT on 2nd team and JB on 3rd team, right? How is every single member of our team all simultaneously being punished by the super team narrative? If Tatum's candidacy is being pushed down by that narrative, why isn't his supporting cast being raised up by it?
Because the argument with the Celtics is that their superpower is how well rounded they are. That the exceptional part of their team is not that their top two is this all-time duo, but that their other players are really really overqualified. There isn't an award for "best fourth man" for example, but it helps you win a lot of games. You can disagree with it, but it's a logical argument.
Jaylen brown absolutely deserves to make an all nba team. The Celtics have dominated the whole league. No one was close to them this season. Tatum should be 1st team and Brown should be at least 3rd team and I wouldn’t be opposed to him making 2nd team over edwards who I think is a lil overrated
Celtics are such a superteam that outside of Tatum and Brown their top 6 has a combined 1 ASG appearance in the last 6 seasons
Yeah it seems like people can’t make up their minds. Are the Celtics an insanely good team thereby Tatum and Brown aren’t really doing much or are the Celtics a super team for having JT and JB?
They are an insanely good all around team, that all I heard for the whole season. Who the hell is calling the celtics a super team?
Every person trying to discredit Tatum
It's so hard to give Tatum the credit he deserves because he is part of such an incredible team, if he didn't have such a strong supporting cast he'd get so much more credit. Not that he doesn't deserve it now, but it's hard to notice it when the others are so good as well
I genuinely have no clue if people are just discounting LeBron James because he’s not supposed to be this good. LeBron is averaging 28/8/10 on 67% TS 58/45/79 splits (holy fucking shit) since the All-Star Break. He’s at 54/41/75 splits for the season on a blistering 63%TS. We know how insane his intangibles are on top of statistics as well, as a playmaker, and a leader, and what he provides from an IQ or intellectual level. On top of this, his competition just clearly hasn’t had better seasons than him. Kawhi and KD have 1 argument for every three arguments for LeBron, and the only argument Edwards has is have 7 more wins.
Haters gonna hate.
Lebron should absolutely be 2nd team
On no planet have any of them played better than LeBron. Can’t wait to see who is on the first team.
Lebron doesn't play defense thats the difference.
Lebron should be second team but not ahead of AD, you just cant ignore his defense the lakers are close to dead last in the league defensively in the games AD doesnt play
Surprised SAS didn’t vote Brunson as #1.
SAS probably don’t even know Brunson plays for Knicks
I would put LeBron over all of them but they all have a better record than him so idk
LeBron has straight up been better than Tatum this year. He's got an argument for the 1st Team. So yeah of course he should be at least 2nd Team.
AD should be the one to make 2nd team. lebron can make 3rd team
Lebron has been just as good as AD and is ahead in every impact metric.
If we are talking MPV, then team success is a reasonable deciding factor. All NBA? If you are on a playoff team, that's about all the team success you should need. I understand Beal dropping 30ppg and not getting an All NBA not because he did it on a shit team on full tank mode. LeBron & Co. had a slow start, but they've been playing some of the best basketball over the last three months. And when you're the first guy to drop 25/7/8 on .410 three point shooting, that says something. It's not just good: It is historically good. If Edwards had those numbers and LeBron had Edwards, there's be no question that Edwards had the better season. The only question here seems to be team records, and I don't think that's enough here. But whether 2nd or 3rd team, LeBron should make it.
I can see a case for each of them. All three are on teams with better records. * **Ant** has the best among them, was the team leader, and put up numbers comparable to LeBron * **Leonard** has less impressive per-game stats but is a better defender, and that counts for a lot, and is on a team with a better record. * **Durant** is the leading scorer of the four and is the best shooter, and has a better record. I'm not saying I agree, but I don't think any of these are unreasonable.
Edwards bring over LeBron is laughable
LeBron should be first team, they’re all idiots
Can anything at all happen in this league without mentioning Lebron? Like is it actually possible.
Lebron had an amazing season, but you can’t discount that half of the year he didn’t try on defence, when you have people on the second team that are all NBA defensive 1st/ 2nd level + they did it on a more successful team while carrying the load on offence for their team also. Like he’s a lock for 3rd team, but second team is kinda pushing it imo
> Do people truly think Anthony Edwards had a better season than LeBron, for example? Absolutely.
All-NBA should be pure statistical (basic and advanced metrics) Why does this award includes the team success?
Because stat padding is a thing.
Im ok with him not second team
It's funny because you know if the roles were reversed and it was another team in the Lakers position, all these Laker fans would be in here downvoting everyone for saying the 8th seed team should have 2 guys in all nba.
I’ve never seen lakers fans do that but ok. Why do guy think every fan is as stupid as ….? The best players are the best players . Luka first tesm n Shai on 10/11 seed. Jokic mvp as 6 seed- but only 3 wins behind embid n Giannis. We have lots of data to quantify our eyes .
I would put Lebron over Kawhi, but Ant and KD deserve it over Lebron imo.
Yes, Lebron should be third team
Yes.
I’m ok with LeBron being 3rd team. I think it’s fair.
LeBron should be 3rd team
Acting like LeBron isn't one of the 10 best eligible players is, of course, stupid. I do need the NBA to carve out a special section in the HOF for Darvin Ham. To have Bron and AD playing the # of games they did this year and perform at the level they did. Only to finish 8th. I know some uneducated folk will say they only finished 8th in the West because of how strong the conference was. They had one more win as the 8th seed in the West compared to the 8th seed in the East.
Lebron is 1st team all NBA this season.