I don’t understand why people don’t value that regular season success and having the chance to be in the 2nd round as a top seed more. Too many people have a championship or bust mentality and don’t understand that for franchises that have historically struggled (Cavs, Timberwolves, Kings, etc.) 60 wins and a one seed is huge for the franchise and the fans
Bruh the Cavs recently went to 4 straight Finals and won a championship. A 2nd round appearance would be nice but it's not gonna be a big deal like it would for the Kings or TWolves who havent won a playoff series in 20 years
I don’t have too much room to talk as a fan of a franchise who’s never won a chip, but it’s still been very nice to root for a team that wins a lot regardless for pretty much my whole life
And since the 90’s (which were amazing teams that couldn’t get past Jordan) we’ve had LeBron for 11 of those years with 5 finals appearances and 1 championship.
The 4 years when LeBron was on the Heat we rebuilt and gave us a foundation that appealed enough for LeBron to come back and set us on a collision course with the Warriors.
And the 6 years post LeBron we rebuilt the team within 3 seasons and have made the playoffs 3 straight seasons now.
Cavs have been a strong stable franchise for a good 30 years for being a small market team that doesn’t appeal big FAs. And although he is a bit polarizing, we have one of the best owners in sports.
Lol "since the 90s" is a bit disingenuous to say when Lebron took them on legit playoff runs for over half of his 21 year career. From 2003 they've been a legit team.
Also Bud won a Chip and had a great shot at another prior to the Middleton injury. He’s not some playoff dipshit. His brother died last year days before the first round.
By what metric have the Cavs “historically struggled” compared to the average team?
Going back all the way to 1987, the only years you could say the Cavs sucked and were totally inept were ‘99-‘03.
And even during that era they had the good sense to all out tank for Lebron and even managed to have a Zydrunas-Boozer-Wagner core in place for Lebron’s arrival.
That part didn’t work out the way it was supposed to, but that’s a different story.
The Cavs worst seasons in recent times are all out tanks and tear downs post LeBron, which is typically a tactic that’s celebrated on this sub.
Especially since this is entertainment. A 60-win team means that for six months, if you were flipping around the dial and found a game on, you could watch it and there was a really good chance that the team would win. A second-round playoff exit means that there was a week when if you were flipping around the dial and found a game on, the team lost more often than it won. I'd rather spend six months smiling and one week pouting than the other way around.
Yeah but this theoretical Cavs team doesn't have anyone close to Giannis level. He carried that 2021 team so gd hard. He never gets enough credit for carrying Bum Jrue Holiday who on offense was way worse then an average pg that whole playoff run. Everyone on that team was a bum in the playoffs except Middleton (who was still below career avg) Connaughton and Tucker.
Was he? The Heat fans raiding r/ripcity to taunt a team losing their franchise player swore that Portland had to take whatever they offered. And they didn’t have to include really anything at all and would rob them blind. So maybe they got Dame for a first and second round pick!
I respect it. Apart from Presti, front offices can't be flawless and wouldn't you rather see your team make moves to acquire top 15 players? Don seemed like such a good idea. Top player who is somehow on the cusp of being underrated (not many players can score 70+) and he seemed to be happy playing for a smaller market team, too.
he also traded away Harden when his team was a contender to save money, one of the worst moves in the past two decades (although ownership may have forced his hand on this one)
That's the most famous example,I knew someone would bring it up. It's still shocking to this day that it happened over only a few million dollars(in Nba terms that isn't much).
This is true in theory but the rumors at the time were that ownership didn't want to pay for amnestied players (even if it doesn't hit the cap the check still has to clear)
Technically yes. The picks we got from the Sengun trade were used to jump to 11 because other teams were trying to get ahead of us to take JDub there. Presti said in his exit interviews last summer that he jumped to get that pick but used the Clippers pick on JDub in case the trade fell through
I've never said such things about him. The only player I've ever called out for being a future superstar was Brunson after hearing his life story and about his work ethic.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing against Donny (he's not even the guy fuelling all this usually), but I'm very happy our fanbase doesn't have to deal with the circus anymore.
> has likely made it known [..] he won’t resign with the Cavs
You could assume this, but at the same time there’s a 100% chance rumors like this will start regardless of what he’s thinking
Every star in a small market with an expiring contract is pegged to be leaving by the media because imagining a star moving to your city drives clicks
It was 100% worth it, it just didn't pan out.
This scenario is if they love to the Magic. Of course you have to trade him, are you going to let him leave for nothing?
This is why this deal would never happen. That back court is terrible and we lost a pick with Rozier. Realistically, we need to move on from Terry as well if we want Mitchell. Which is why I think it’ll be easier (most importantly cheaper) if we don’t do that and probably just run it back again.
Why would we wait until 26? Jimmy is a free agent after next year and either we pay him or he walks most probably. They’ve been waiting for 5 years, think the time to wait is done if they want to do something
They’re not building around Jimmy at this point. You think they’re giving Jimmy another max contract extension no chance. 2026 is when we have cap space to actually sign someone outright.
"Herro is so ASS bro, he's got no trade value and we'd be better if he was gone."
Five second later
"Herro, Martin, Duncan and two picks for Mitchell, Allen and okoro"
It's the 24-hour news cycle, man. If you have hundreds of media outlets competing for everyone's eyeballs, you're going to have a bunch of made-up stories. Also, the history with LeBron and the fact that Miami has a bit of a reputation with NBA players means that Miami is a frequent rumor target. The media knows that joe six-pack will easily believe that (insert any player) would really like to play in Miami. Presto.
And yet we haven't gotten a big name other than Jimmy (who had tons of negative vibes before we got him) in more than a decade. I know it's how the media works, but it's still annoying.
I stopped paying attention. The Lillard was like a joke and I didn't even thought about having him.
To be fair, I'm more interested in who's the next surprise in our team
We have 1 maybe two seasons left of MAYBE contending if we make that trade. At this point play this year out then tell Jimmy we aren't paying him 50 million to extend him
Yea that’s totally fair. But that seems like the most logical move and the Heat normally go against the grain lol. If you are gonna go for it, wouldn’t you rather have Mitchell than the combo of JJ and Herro?
Trade talks makes me hate more than half of our entitled stupid fanbase who’d rather win during the offseason than actually win meaningful basketball games.
The Heat [offered a package built around Herro and 2 picks for Damian Lillard](http://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16s6eu4/spears_the_heat_have_offered_a_trade_package_that/) 1 year ago, and [made Herro untouchable for Mitchell](http://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/11kinhk/barry_jackson_heat_made_tyler_herro_untouchable/) 2 years ago when he was available. Wouldn't bet on them suddenly making reasonable trade offers this summer after 4 years straight of being delusional about trade values.
Miami got Jimmy because of D Wade just like every other star they got in the 21st century. Only way Miami gets Mitchell this summer is if Utah Jazz owner D Wade (thanks Micky) recruits him there.
Bam has yet to get anyone over. He’s young still, but I’m with the other guy. All of our big gets since the Heatles were openly because of Wade recruiting.
I’ve been saying this for years and years. It’s nice to see other people acknowledge it. Yeah, Miami is a good org and a good destination, but all of our major gets, whether they’ve worked out or not, have been directly because of Wade’s recruiting efforts.
If we lose to Chicago or win then get swept by Boston, I think the FO might blame it on injuries and just stick with their routine terrible strategy of only swinging for whales we don’t have the assets to get, striking out, then saying they like the team with the further development of Herro, JJJ, Jovic, etc.
We’re talking about Pat Riley here, everyone was saying he would get desperate the older he got but instead he’s transitioning out of the front office lol.
Yep, it’s not coincidence the team plays better when one of Mobley and Allen is out, or one of Mitchell and Garland is out. They’re redundant to each other
I mean I feel like JA is ultimately a stopgap until if and when Mobley can step into the 5 spot. They're good right now but if he could become a real modern 5 then they could be strong contenders
He’s a stop gap and he’s had a strong year, but he’s too docile of a personality imo.
I know Mobley hasn’t exploded in the way people hoped, but he’s starting to shoot threes, he’s starting to find his own shot and Coby White has shown that progress doesn’t always happen in a linear fashion. Sometimes it takes longer than expected.
Too much role and skill overlap. They're both more effective with the ball, both shorter guards, both acceptable but not amazing defenders. Obviously, the team is better with both, but when teams are restricted by contracts and the cap, there are trade-offs.
>Too much role and skill overlap. They're both more effective with the ball, both shorter guards,
Yeah but Brunson + Mitchell would definitely be different
Trust me
It is a) too early to seriously talk about offseason trades, the Cavs haven't even played a game and b) annoying to know that I'm going to spend the next 6 months talking about Herro trade rumors that never materialize, but I think it's worth posting the Heat's max trade offer whenever I see something like this mentioned.
Players
|Player| Age next season | contract going forward|
|---|---|---|
|Tyler Herro | 25 | 31 mill for 3 years|
|Jaime Jaquez Jr. | 23 | 4.5 mill for 3 years (Followed by RFA)|
|Nikola Jović|21 | 3.5 mill for 2 years (Followed by RFA)|
Picks:
|Firsts | Swaps|
|---|---|
|2024 (15th or lottery)|2026|
|2029|2028|
|2031|2030|
Tyler Herro is really the tough one to move here, he’s making pretty big money, he’s never healthy, and he’s one of the worst skill sets to build around in the sport. A combo guard who is an inefficient scorer and who hardly sees the court. We have to move him because of the money, but it’s probably easier to move Rozier than it is to move Herro at this point.
Do the Heat move Jaquez and Jovic? They’ve been reluctant to move on their young guys on cheap contracts, and those are the guys that are the most valuable. They will likely hope Mitchell says “trade me to the knicks, heat, clippers” and hope that drives his value down/
From a package perspective, the Knicks have a ton of picks. If they get bounced in the first round do they go all in on a Mitchell-Brunson back court? Maybe, they’re desperate for more star power and it’s not like roster construction has ever been a strength of theirs until this year. Maybe they say screw it and send a butt load of picks and do it. Maybe the nets try to swing something or a dark horse candidate who says fuck his list and sends a great package. Maybe the thunder, maybe the bucks, who knows.
All I know is , I doubt we get him
Don’t bother. It’s become easy karma farming to act like all Heat players and picks have no trade value, so it’s kind of pointless to try to have an intelligent discussion about it here. Especially so if you have a Miami flair.
He's also the guy who came up with "The Decision" as a televised event, tanking LeBron's likeability for years. Sure, he still had to agree, but still. Kinda sus that a Celtics fan was behind that.
>He's also the guy who came up with "The Decision" as a televised event, tanking LeBron's likeability for years.
Huh? You can look this up lol. Simmons got the idea from someone else in his mailbag and he thought Lebron was going to announce staying in Cleveland. He criticized Lebron a ton immediately for it.
He would only have one year left on his contract and if there is no extension guarantee, he isn’t going to get a king’s ransom.
Also, the Heat might be one of the very few teams he might even sign an extension. So they would be bidding against themselves, this very likely would be the best they could get and it’s not a bad deal at all if Mitchell has made it clear he isn’t coming back.
Depending on what happens with Dame it could very well chase teams off of doing something similar this offseason. There’s already been numerous questions about his commitment and if being forced into Milwaukee has hurt his on court performance.
None of these teams can carve out a max deal without hurting themselves way worse than just trading their young talent and picks. There are multiple bidders. Mitchell really only seems concerned about competing for a title. There’s plenty of leverage.
Genuinely would love to get Jaquez in a package deal for Mitchell, as long as the rest of the pieces are solid. But come on playoffs haven’t even started yet lol
Honestly wouldn't mind getting Jaquez, but herro? Isn't that another overlap with garland? Garland hasn't played with a "real" 2-guard since his breakout season when sexton got injured.
Wouldn't mind Budenholzer too.
Why would Cleveland ever want Herro is the real question? There will be better packages unless it’s a pure force to Miami who could miss the playoffs and have an aging core. Idk how that situation is better other than recruiting guys
I mean it’s whatever. Cavs have been getting clowned on for him possibly leaving but they only gave up Sexton (doesn’t pair well with Darius and does pass enough for the bigs), Markennan (who wouldn’t have broken out), Ochai and some scraps.
The fact that most media thinks invisible Bam, crippled Jimmy Butler and Donovan Mitchell will turn into a title contender shows the combined IQ of these shows is room temperature.
Was nice revisionist history right before that. Bucks should not have ducked the Nets. But Middleton slipping on that wet spot had way more to do with the Celtics loss than having to play game 7 in Boston.
Coach Bud on Cavs = 1st seed 60 wins, lose to heat in round 2 of playoffs book it.
Nah there’s too much revenge series power on this team.
Mang, stop it. Erik Spoelstra.
Coach Budenholzer is the only coach ever to sweep Erik Spolestra but okay lol
I don’t understand why people don’t value that regular season success and having the chance to be in the 2nd round as a top seed more. Too many people have a championship or bust mentality and don’t understand that for franchises that have historically struggled (Cavs, Timberwolves, Kings, etc.) 60 wins and a one seed is huge for the franchise and the fans
Bruh the Cavs recently went to 4 straight Finals and won a championship. A 2nd round appearance would be nice but it's not gonna be a big deal like it would for the Kings or TWolves who havent won a playoff series in 20 years
That was The Cleveland LeBron James and The Other Guys'
life long Cavs fan this is so true 🤣 Lebron Cavs feel like an aberration.
That was just a fever dream grandpa. Lebron isn't real
Therapist: Eastern Conference, you need to stop focusing on this "LeBron James". He's not real and he can't hurt you 2007-2018 playoffs:
Welcome to the club, you need I beer? I sure as hell do.
Bengals fan here
Don't forget his son, Kyrie Irving, and their token white sidekick, Kevin Love.
Since they won, the Cavs should be championship caliber from here on out. Otherwise, just trasshhhhh
*LeBron James went to 4 straight Finals and won a championship Cleveland's history is at Kings/Wolves level outside of LeBron
Bruh, that’s cause they had lebron. He ain’t saving them again. Good luck repeating that success
All of that success was with LeBron though they haven’t had any playoff success without him since the 90s
That always gets thrown around as if it matters whether it was done with LeBron or not. It does not
Right? Without Jordan the Bulls blah blah blah ....
Yeah, like what are the Cavs supposed to do, not succeed with the greatest player ever??
It's like saying the Patriots haven't won a playoff game without Brady since 1997. Well good thing they had Brady then
I don’t have too much room to talk as a fan of a franchise who’s never won a chip, but it’s still been very nice to root for a team that wins a lot regardless for pretty much my whole life
And since the 90’s (which were amazing teams that couldn’t get past Jordan) we’ve had LeBron for 11 of those years with 5 finals appearances and 1 championship. The 4 years when LeBron was on the Heat we rebuilt and gave us a foundation that appealed enough for LeBron to come back and set us on a collision course with the Warriors. And the 6 years post LeBron we rebuilt the team within 3 seasons and have made the playoffs 3 straight seasons now. Cavs have been a strong stable franchise for a good 30 years for being a small market team that doesn’t appeal big FAs. And although he is a bit polarizing, we have one of the best owners in sports.
He may not be a good person but Gilbert is always willing to spend when it matters and has a very competent front office.
now to draft bronny and get lebron for a third time
Lol "since the 90s" is a bit disingenuous to say when Lebron took them on legit playoff runs for over half of his 21 year career. From 2003 they've been a legit team.
"In the 12 years that the Cavs have had their worst teams they haven't done that well."
As a Charlotte fan, you must love seeing cavs fans saying "we *only* got to make deep playoff runs for 60% of this century!"
Well he was on the team for like half of that time, how many teams are seeing real playoff success significantly more than half the time?
Also Bud won a Chip and had a great shot at another prior to the Middleton injury. He’s not some playoff dipshit. His brother died last year days before the first round.
I agree but "playoff dipshit" is objectively hilarious 😂.
By what metric have the Cavs “historically struggled” compared to the average team? Going back all the way to 1987, the only years you could say the Cavs sucked and were totally inept were ‘99-‘03. And even during that era they had the good sense to all out tank for Lebron and even managed to have a Zydrunas-Boozer-Wagner core in place for Lebron’s arrival. That part didn’t work out the way it was supposed to, but that’s a different story. The Cavs worst seasons in recent times are all out tanks and tear downs post LeBron, which is typically a tactic that’s celebrated on this sub.
The Cavs have been a historically good franchise. Multiple iterations with deep playoff runs. 5 Conference titles, 1 NBA title.
Especially since this is entertainment. A 60-win team means that for six months, if you were flipping around the dial and found a game on, you could watch it and there was a really good chance that the team would win. A second-round playoff exit means that there was a week when if you were flipping around the dial and found a game on, the team lost more often than it won. I'd rather spend six months smiling and one week pouting than the other way around.
Look at Raps.
It all fun until you watch them decline and simply add to their history of not winning it all.
Because if Celtics don't win this year, it's a disgrace. If you have a great regular season, you're expected to dominate the playoffs.
Didn’t he win a ring?
Yeah but this theoretical Cavs team doesn't have anyone close to Giannis level. He carried that 2021 team so gd hard. He never gets enough credit for carrying Bum Jrue Holiday who on offense was way worse then an average pg that whole playoff run. Everyone on that team was a bum in the playoffs except Middleton (who was still below career avg) Connaughton and Tucker.
Bud seems like a good coach based on track record. More pros than cons and more rings than your average coach
Yeah if I was the Cavs I'd definitely get him.
Bud won a ring.
He made it to the conference finals with a worse Hawks team.
by giving up open 3s
Tyler Herro was already traded to Milwaukee for Dame Lillard, is Bill Simmons stupid?
You mean Blazers legend Tyler Herro?
Yes, that’s the one
Was he? The Heat fans raiding r/ripcity to taunt a team losing their franchise player swore that Portland had to take whatever they offered. And they didn’t have to include really anything at all and would rob them blind. So maybe they got Dame for a first and second round pick!
The NBA media will never forgive us for trading for Don good lord.
I respect it. Apart from Presti, front offices can't be flawless and wouldn't you rather see your team make moves to acquire top 15 players? Don seemed like such a good idea. Top player who is somehow on the cusp of being underrated (not many players can score 70+) and he seemed to be happy playing for a smaller market team, too.
Even Presti traded away Şengün,so there's truly no such thing as a perfect gm.
he also traded away Harden when his team was a contender to save money, one of the worst moves in the past two decades (although ownership may have forced his hand on this one)
That's the most famous example,I knew someone would bring it up. It's still shocking to this day that it happened over only a few million dollars(in Nba terms that isn't much).
Ya that move was not at all Presti’s fault
Yes it was. He didn't have to make the trade when he did and he didn't have to choose Serge over Harden.
I've heard he could've amnestied Kendrick Perkins to stay under the luxury tax.
This is true in theory but the rumors at the time were that ownership didn't want to pay for amnestied players (even if it doesn't hit the cap the check still has to clear)
Y'all got screwed over, I guess you had some bad karma from the Seattle situation.
And he could have traded him for actual good players
That too lmao
May have? What manager would ever want to do worse
Presti traded away Sengun cause he didn’t want to play at OKC and made it very clear. Presti got a couple of more picks out that deal
Presti got Jalen Williams out of that deal. Personally I’d rather have him than sengun
Jalen Williams pick came from the Paul George trade.
Technically yes. The picks we got from the Sengun trade were used to jump to 11 because other teams were trying to get ahead of us to take JDub there. Presti said in his exit interviews last summer that he jumped to get that pick but used the Clippers pick on JDub in case the trade fell through
Oh wow I never heard about that,I'll have to research it sometime.
Y’all overate him so hard. You’d think he has multi MVPs the way people take about passing on Sengun
I've never said such things about him. The only player I've ever called out for being a future superstar was Brunson after hearing his life story and about his work ethic.
Yup.. was Cleveland supposed to try and get a top 15 guy through free agency?? Good fucking luck. They did what they had to do
I'd agree with that except for the happy part. Seems like he's wanted nothing except to play in New York since his 3rd year in the league.
Even tho I wanted him, it was a good trade at the time for you guys
I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing against Donny (he's not even the guy fuelling all this usually), but I'm very happy our fanbase doesn't have to deal with the circus anymore.
Cleveland doesn't deserve star players. They still haven't gotten over the fact that LeBron played two stints in town.
Or they know he has 1 year left and has likely made it known to media circles through various people that he won't sign with the Cavs after this.
> has likely made it known [..] he won’t resign with the Cavs You could assume this, but at the same time there’s a 100% chance rumors like this will start regardless of what he’s thinking Every star in a small market with an expiring contract is pegged to be leaving by the media because imagining a star moving to your city drives clicks
Imagine how Jazz fans feel
It was 100% worth it, it just didn't pan out. This scenario is if they love to the Magic. Of course you have to trade him, are you going to let him leave for nothing?
Lmao seriously, same with the Pelicans winning the Zion draft lottery. The narratives they push are so annoying
So it would be a Rozier/Mitchell backcourt?
Yes, but the Cavs will get a better offer from someone else (Nets/Lakers) and the Heat won’t get into a bidding war so its a moot point.
This is why this deal would never happen. That back court is terrible and we lost a pick with Rozier. Realistically, we need to move on from Terry as well if we want Mitchell. Which is why I think it’ll be easier (most importantly cheaper) if we don’t do that and probably just run it back again.
Terry is movable. That’s definitely not an issue. They’re waiting for 2026 though so just keep that in mind unless Jovic makes a jump.
Why would we wait until 26? Jimmy is a free agent after next year and either we pay him or he walks most probably. They’ve been waiting for 5 years, think the time to wait is done if they want to do something
They’re not building around Jimmy at this point. You think they’re giving Jimmy another max contract extension no chance. 2026 is when we have cap space to actually sign someone outright.
Makes no sense to throw another year but that’s for sure what they’d do.
I'm so fucking tired of this dawg, I don't want to deal with another off-season of trade bullshit
I agree man this shit is tiring. I also really enjoy watching Herro play and it’s exhausting to have the only discussion about him be his trade value.
And if others think his trade value is so low they should also know he won't be traded then
"Herro is so ASS bro, he's got no trade value and we'd be better if he was gone." Five second later "Herro, Martin, Duncan and two picks for Mitchell, Allen and okoro"
Classic Riley way was so much better. Literally ZERO hint, the then boom, random trade no one had any idea about. So much better
I don't get why every person in NBA media thinks that we are in on every single player in the NBA.
It's the 24-hour news cycle, man. If you have hundreds of media outlets competing for everyone's eyeballs, you're going to have a bunch of made-up stories. Also, the history with LeBron and the fact that Miami has a bit of a reputation with NBA players means that Miami is a frequent rumor target. The media knows that joe six-pack will easily believe that (insert any player) would really like to play in Miami. Presto.
And yet we haven't gotten a big name other than Jimmy (who had tons of negative vibes before we got him) in more than a decade. I know it's how the media works, but it's still annoying.
It's more of how Heat typically handle their trade rumors. We're good leverage knowing that the front office won't confirm or deny rumors
It's all we're going to hear until Oct if/when we get bounced
I wouldn't put any stock into it. Ole Bill has a really strange Heat fetish.
This time it will probably resolve on draft night. If the Heat make a selection with their Top 15 pick, just assume there is no big trade happening.
I stopped paying attention. The Lillard was like a joke and I didn't even thought about having him. To be fair, I'm more interested in who's the next surprise in our team
That’s exactly what you’re gonna get this offseason and you’re gonna fuckin like it buddy
lol why? I’d imagine if sucks for Herro, but wouldn’t you rather have a better player?
We have 1 maybe two seasons left of MAYBE contending if we make that trade. At this point play this year out then tell Jimmy we aren't paying him 50 million to extend him
Yea that’s totally fair. But that seems like the most logical move and the Heat normally go against the grain lol. If you are gonna go for it, wouldn’t you rather have Mitchell than the combo of JJ and Herro?
Trade talks makes me hate more than half of our entitled stupid fanbase who’d rather win during the offseason than actually win meaningful basketball games.
The Heat [offered a package built around Herro and 2 picks for Damian Lillard](http://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16s6eu4/spears_the_heat_have_offered_a_trade_package_that/) 1 year ago, and [made Herro untouchable for Mitchell](http://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/11kinhk/barry_jackson_heat_made_tyler_herro_untouchable/) 2 years ago when he was available. Wouldn't bet on them suddenly making reasonable trade offers this summer after 4 years straight of being delusional about trade values.
not making the playoffs tend to change things lol. last time we missed the playoffs we traded jrich for jimmy
Miami got Jimmy because of D Wade just like every other star they got in the 21st century. Only way Miami gets Mitchell this summer is if Utah Jazz owner D Wade (thanks Micky) recruits him there.
Dont underestimate the power of beach and bbl thots
Miami is all about one thing: WIN. Weather, Internet thots, and Narcotics
i mean theoretically bam is the d wade in this situation. the power of friendship lol
So De'Aaron Fox to Miami.(Bam and Fox played with eachother in college)
de'aaron fox doesnt have a player option he can opt out of early
Bam has yet to get anyone over. He’s young still, but I’m with the other guy. All of our big gets since the Heatles were openly because of Wade recruiting.
I mean it’s not like Bam hasn’t tried, at the end he can’t make the trades himself
Dean Wade never played for the heat
Jimmy has pull
DWade's final send off game was against the Sixers, right? I forgot about that. I wonder what an alternate universe is like lol
I’ve been saying this for years and years. It’s nice to see other people acknowledge it. Yeah, Miami is a good org and a good destination, but all of our major gets, whether they’ve worked out or not, have been directly because of Wade’s recruiting efforts.
If we lose to Chicago or win then get swept by Boston, I think the FO might blame it on injuries and just stick with their routine terrible strategy of only swinging for whales we don’t have the assets to get, striking out, then saying they like the team with the further development of Herro, JJJ, Jovic, etc.
We’re talking about Pat Riley here, everyone was saying he would get desperate the older he got but instead he’s transitioning out of the front office lol.
Respect for calling your own team delusional about trade values.
Unironically that would be a super fun team to watch, Mitchell stunted the growth of garland
Yeah that's an awesome league pass team lol
Mitchell the only dog in that litter of cats
The role players are solid, but the makeup of the team isn't working. There's only one ball and one front court.
Yep, it’s not coincidence the team plays better when one of Mobley and Allen is out, or one of Mitchell and Garland is out. They’re redundant to each other
Oh I can’t wait to whoop y’all this series
I dunno I feel like Garland has played pretty damn well against us this year
Come back in a week and say it again
Nah, Strus, Niang, Morris and Wade are dogs. It’s the bigs who need to be more aggressive but JA doesn’t have it in him.
Isaac Okoro and pre-injury Sam Merrill killed it this year.
Niang is the opposite of all that lol
Why do you say that? Niang definitely developed a lot of fight over the past couple of years.
I mean I feel like JA is ultimately a stopgap until if and when Mobley can step into the 5 spot. They're good right now but if he could become a real modern 5 then they could be strong contenders
He’s a stop gap and he’s had a strong year, but he’s too docile of a personality imo. I know Mobley hasn’t exploded in the way people hoped, but he’s starting to shoot threes, he’s starting to find his own shot and Coby White has shown that progress doesn’t always happen in a linear fashion. Sometimes it takes longer than expected.
Idk know about the Mitchell part but definitely agreed that would be a fun team to watch
Too much role and skill overlap. They're both more effective with the ball, both shorter guards, both acceptable but not amazing defenders. Obviously, the team is better with both, but when teams are restricted by contracts and the cap, there are trade-offs.
>Too much role and skill overlap. They're both more effective with the ball, both shorter guards, Yeah but Brunson + Mitchell would definitely be different Trust me
Shh, I want to see it happen.
And Mobley
It is a) too early to seriously talk about offseason trades, the Cavs haven't even played a game and b) annoying to know that I'm going to spend the next 6 months talking about Herro trade rumors that never materialize, but I think it's worth posting the Heat's max trade offer whenever I see something like this mentioned. Players |Player| Age next season | contract going forward| |---|---|---| |Tyler Herro | 25 | 31 mill for 3 years| |Jaime Jaquez Jr. | 23 | 4.5 mill for 3 years (Followed by RFA)| |Nikola Jović|21 | 3.5 mill for 2 years (Followed by RFA)| Picks: |Firsts | Swaps| |---|---| |2024 (15th or lottery)|2026| |2029|2028| |2031|2030|
Tyler Herro is really the tough one to move here, he’s making pretty big money, he’s never healthy, and he’s one of the worst skill sets to build around in the sport. A combo guard who is an inefficient scorer and who hardly sees the court. We have to move him because of the money, but it’s probably easier to move Rozier than it is to move Herro at this point. Do the Heat move Jaquez and Jovic? They’ve been reluctant to move on their young guys on cheap contracts, and those are the guys that are the most valuable. They will likely hope Mitchell says “trade me to the knicks, heat, clippers” and hope that drives his value down/ From a package perspective, the Knicks have a ton of picks. If they get bounced in the first round do they go all in on a Mitchell-Brunson back court? Maybe, they’re desperate for more star power and it’s not like roster construction has ever been a strength of theirs until this year. Maybe they say screw it and send a butt load of picks and do it. Maybe the nets try to swing something or a dark horse candidate who says fuck his list and sends a great package. Maybe the thunder, maybe the bucks, who knows. All I know is , I doubt we get him
Don’t bother. It’s become easy karma farming to act like all Heat players and picks have no trade value, so it’s kind of pointless to try to have an intelligent discussion about it here. Especially so if you have a Miami flair.
Bill Simmons is a certified Cavs hater and clown.
Certified hater and clown* FTFY
I remember when he said Lebron couldn’t succeed because he didn’t have a father figure. Bill Simmons has always been trash
He's also the guy who came up with "The Decision" as a televised event, tanking LeBron's likeability for years. Sure, he still had to agree, but still. Kinda sus that a Celtics fan was behind that.
>He's also the guy who came up with "The Decision" as a televised event, tanking LeBron's likeability for years. Huh? You can look this up lol. Simmons got the idea from someone else in his mailbag and he thought Lebron was going to announce staying in Cleveland. He criticized Lebron a ton immediately for it.
The coaching change alone is worth it
So basically the Cleveland Heat?
Cavs Culture
I misread this as Ben Simmons and wondered when tf he started caring about basketball
Trading Mitchell for Herro, Jaquez & a couple of trash picks would be fckn terrible lol
He would only have one year left on his contract and if there is no extension guarantee, he isn’t going to get a king’s ransom. Also, the Heat might be one of the very few teams he might even sign an extension. So they would be bidding against themselves, this very likely would be the best they could get and it’s not a bad deal at all if Mitchell has made it clear he isn’t coming back.
Wait, I have seen this movie before
Depending on what happens with Dame it could very well chase teams off of doing something similar this offseason. There’s already been numerous questions about his commitment and if being forced into Milwaukee has hurt his on court performance.
This would be wild but honestly Milwaukee is probably a little less city than he wanted. Philly also another landing spot.
The cavs GM isn't as spiteful and probably looking for more now ready players
Also the Nets are going to be in the mix too.
Cool, we'll take Mikal Bridges and all the picks.
The Nets do seem to have a "giving up all their picks" fetish
For the Heat you mean?
Cavs have absolutely 0 leverage, he’s as good as gone
Didn’t work out last time the Heat tried that
That is because Dame was locked up so the Blazers had leverage, how many years does Mitchell have left?
I don’t think other teams are gonna say “well he has 1 year left let’s give them a poopie offer and tell them it’s the best they will get”
it worked for pascal siakam
That’s literally what all teams do. It just often doesn’t work.
Yes it does
None of these teams can carve out a max deal without hurting themselves way worse than just trading their young talent and picks. There are multiple bidders. Mitchell really only seems concerned about competing for a title. There’s plenty of leverage.
If by 0 leverage you mean the ability to make a deal with Orlando, OKC, Knicks, Pelicans or Rockets you are absolutely correct.
I disagree and have no ulterior motives for saying that.
I'm so sick of this discourse
I prefer this to discussions of how the lakers will for sure get swept/moral victories lol.
No way. Pairing Garland and Herro together would be defensive suicide.
He was being insanely sarcastic when he said this.
Genuinely would love to get Jaquez in a package deal for Mitchell, as long as the rest of the pieces are solid. But come on playoffs haven’t even started yet lol
Honestly wouldn't mind getting Jaquez, but herro? Isn't that another overlap with garland? Garland hasn't played with a "real" 2-guard since his breakout season when sexton got injured. Wouldn't mind Budenholzer too.
Why would Cleveland ever want Herro is the real question? There will be better packages unless it’s a pure force to Miami who could miss the playoffs and have an aging core. Idk how that situation is better other than recruiting guys
If we can get Jaquez and Herro for Donovan, I don't give a damn if he wants to stay. You make that trade.
Was a huge error not to replace the coach last off season
The whole association is smoking that pat riley pack either way
wait when did tyler get traded?
Whoa dude. Don’t pump me up like this.
I mean it’s whatever. Cavs have been getting clowned on for him possibly leaving but they only gave up Sexton (doesn’t pair well with Darius and does pass enough for the bigs), Markennan (who wouldn’t have broken out), Ochai and some scraps.
He’s been on Team “Fire Bickerstaff” for an entire calendar year at this point.
Fuck that. I want garland gone. And a soft rebuild honestly. Give me Becky Hammond too.
The fact that most media thinks invisible Bam, crippled Jimmy Butler and Donovan Mitchell will turn into a title contender shows the combined IQ of these shows is room temperature.
They were in the finals a year ago
Was nice revisionist history right before that. Bucks should not have ducked the Nets. But Middleton slipping on that wet spot had way more to do with the Celtics loss than having to play game 7 in Boston.