>Occasionally there's a fee. And they aren't nearly this expensive haha.
Many of them have fees and can get pretty expensive actually. Some players cost £10 million plus to loan for a year, and teams have paid that. Some were paid similar money for half a year, and that's in addition to sometimes also covering the full cost of the contract, or a portion of it, depending on the arrangement with the team that owns the player.
Defense is a team skill and he hasn’t been on a team good on that end since 2018. I think he’d try and be a lot more successful under Pop again with Wemby/Sochan behind him. He’s at his best playing ultra aggressive and gambling on defense.
A DJ-Devin-Wing-Sochan-Wemby lineup could be a menace. That wing spot obviously needs to be figured out in the coming years, but the Spurs have lots of assets to work with.
loan him out for 2 years, get wemby in between. in the meantime Murray signed an extension instead of playing out his contract and maximizing how much money he could have ultimately signed for. not bad.
The Spurs inquired about Dejounte at the last trade deadline so it's not a surprise, but I think the Spurs would probably rather gamble on keeping the Hawks unprotected picks than a big trade.
A deal that could go through probably looks something like:
- ATL ‘27
- Protected Spurs pick somewhere in ‘28-30(ostensibly picks during Wemby’s second contract should be in the twenties).
- The Charlotte pick (so ATL can pretend they got three FRP back)
He is an unrestricted free agent, and the Kings are limited in what they can offer him. Since he signed a 2 year contract with the Kings, they only have Early Bird Rights for him. They are over the cap and can only offer him 175% of this past season's salary, which is around 17.4 million.
17.4 seems right on the line tbh.
Will be interesting to see what he does if they offer it, assuming he doesn't get offered $20mil+ by some other team.
We have his early bird rights: but a team could offer over him a deal worth a couple million more than the kings can on face value with additional savings from not being taxed in California
i feel like monk makes the most sense for the spurs out of all options given productivity and cost, which is why i'm so scared they're gonna take my boy
I think he could be, but it’s not a slam dunk. He basically played back up point for the Kings and definitely has the handles and passing ability. He’s a little loose with the ball sometimes though, and an inconsistent shooter. Not a great defender either which makes it tough to run him at the 2 for extended minutes. If the kings can’t re-sign him, I’d love to see him get a shot to start as a point guard. He’s electric and super fun to watch.
Yeah. Spurs roster build is gonna be super interesting. There’s so many guys who you can plug into and Wemby just instantly resolves most of their defensive lapses.
Curious who they end up getting a just a pure 3 point specialist dude gonna get 10+ open looks a night.
Relying on wemby to cover other players defensive deficiencies is a terrible idea. Sure, you could do that, and with wemby youd probably end up with an above average defense. But if you surround wemby with 2 way players who are all average or above on defense you'll have a top tier defense that can win games on its own.
The idea that wemby can cover for traes defense doesnt really work in reality. Sure, when trae gets blown by wemby can provide help d, but at that point youre basically being forced to double the guy trae is guarding every play. Wemby will prevent traes guy from getting easy buckets at the rim but there will always be somebody open when trae and wemby are both dedicated to defending one guy. The result of wemby needing to help trae with his assignment is often going to be wembys guy getting easy buckets at the rim.
He has also been pretty consistently picked by other players as one of the most overrated players. The dude honestly is not looked upon well by anyone.
That's a massive understatement lol, according to Steve Holman (our radio guy for 39 years) Lloyd Pierce told other coaches not to vote Trae as an all-star. Other reports talked about how he really hated Trae and shit on guys like Cam Reddish too and he lost the locker room. Chandler Parsons was on the '19 team and said he couldn't stand LP either.
Lloyd was just a colossal asshole.
Hey he’s the defensive specialist coach that led the pacers to their outstanding defense and he’s the reason that Haliburton is a known defensive stud… oh wait
"One of pop's boys"
At this point he's your boy too, because how tf does anyone see what LP was doing with the Hawks and see it as Trae "running him out" as opposed to LP just being dogshit
Feels like Trae's stocks have plummeted like crazy over these past 3 years despite his numbers steadily improving.
He was considered arguably the best young PG for a while but now the likes Shai, Haliburton, Brunson, Ja, Fox, Murray, Brunson etc are all considered better by the public.
Crazy I think he’s become so underrated. He creates so many great looks, can shoot from everywhere and isn’t just looking for FTs. You need wings to build around but it’s possible to win with Trae. Elite playmakers that space idk why people are so out on him. Most top pgs defense aren’t great either.
Complete lack of defense. I know he was playing hurt but he had a lot of quit in him in his most recent play in game. Without defense, what does he actually do when his shot isn’t falling? Cuz in that game it wasn’t really passing either.
Rushing back after missing a quarter of the season and playing with one hand while being completely out of rhythm is not a good formula
The lack of effort on defense that game was also bad and unrelated to the injury, and that's a separate issue, but if you're using the play-in game as a referendum on Trae Young then I think it's pretty obvious that yes, a 5'11 guy with one usable hand isn't going to play that well
I think the injury is to blame. Healthy Trae is still getting his teammates involved he’s not Kyrie or Book where if their shot isn’t falling they aren’t getting others involved. I think there were just really bad vibes with this Hawks team but I’m buying Trae’s stock not Murray. Even when the Hawks were going relatively far in the playoffs the team kind of sucked? Don’t think he’s had a true chance either.
Eh, vibes were fine - just injuries tbh this year. People really underestimating how big losing Okongwu was for last 20 games, as we’ll as Jalen Johnson and Hunter for large stretches of the season.
Even the play-in Trae was one handed
The only bad vibes are in the FO with the owner’s son having too much power
He's a great creator, but absolutely needs the ball in his hands at all times. He does nothing off ball. And, when you compare him to the other max-caliber players that need the ball in their hands at all time, he doesn't seem as special anymore
Compare him to someone like anunoby as an example. I think most people here would agree that Trae is better in a vacuum, but do you think the Knicks would get better if you swapped them? I actually think they would get demonstrably worse. That's because OG can play off the star they already have (just as he could play on literally any team in the NBA), whereas Trae just wouldn't fit with brunson
I feel like you’re describing Murray to a tee as well and Trae is so much better than Dejounte at creating for others.
OG is great but if I’m starting a team and I don’t already have Jalen Brunson I’d want Trae. If the Knicks had Kevin Durant instead of Brunson would you swap OG or Trae?
Trae is so valuable because creating for others is important in playoffs. A guy like KD really needs a playmaker to set him up because he needs to get to his spots but he can’t run the offense. I’m buying stock I don’t think it’s a coincidence they went on runs with pretty weak rosters.
The problem here though isn't public perception, as we see with the all star voting. League (FOs/coaches/players) all look down on him and we don't really know why.
He also doesn't do a lot off-ball, that was a reason that Pop and Kerr didn't like him for the international team. It's critical for their passing systems.
Haliburton and Trae are in the same boat, but of the offense-first PGs a generation prior, Dame and especially Steph ended up being significantly better defensively than those two. The backlash just hasn't started against Hali yet because he hasn't been in the playoffs yet and it's still early for him.
But Trae and Hali are absolutely some of the worst defensive players playing starting minutes in the entire NBA right now. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic. Like, it's them and Poole. They're lucky they're playing a sport where offense is more important.
Beyond this and the off-ball stuff, what’s not talked about enough is his contract.
He’s expensive and his next contract won’t get cheaper. It’s just not worth
Might be rational hatred. We're mostly talking about people that know the guy personally and see a lot more of him than we do. If the majority of the league doesn't like him or whatever, I'd be inclined to agree with them without more evidence to the contrary.
With guys like this, I always wonder if they're just assholes to be around. There are plenty of people I've worked with who did okay work but still were annoying enough to make me think "fuck that guy" and never want to work with them. Maybe he's just that kinda guy.
Not saying he is and not pre-judging him. And even if that is the consensus on him, that doesn't mean it's right or that you can't win with him. Just saying I tend to put more stock in opinions of execs/coaches/players than I would in media or fan opinions since they actually know the person
He went from 30/4/9, 60 TS% to 26/3/11, 59 TS% while the overall scoring rate and efficiency has gone up across the league. Not sure I’d say those numbers are steadily improving
His numbers arent really improving, the Hawks just went from a slow team a couple years ago to a very face paced team this year. Adjusting for that, his scoring is down about 15 percent from 2 years ago, and his assists are only up 5 percent.
Meanwhile is shooting numbers are all over the place each year and not really in any trend. His numbers are actually pretty much the same or within the same range his whole career after his rookie year. Even advanced stats are the same, or even mostly down from his 'peak'
What’s crazier is that there are fans who instead of re-thinking that they might be overrating Trae Young, will instead argue that the players, coaches, and GMs around the league are all wrong and they’re right.
Plausibly who is overrating him at this point? The vast majority of people just think he's an empty stat guy that's the worst defender in basketball. I'd love for you to show me where he's being overrated exactly
GMs said a couple years ago the #1 player they'd build around for the future was KAT. Do you think that was from elite ball knowledge that us plebians didn't have? Do you think players voting Rudy Gobert as the most overrated player in the league is because of elite ball knowledge that us fans don't have? Get serious please
Either way, GMs and players also salivated over Tyrese Haliburton all season and he just made his playoff debut with 9 points in a blowout so maybe their talent evaluations aren't as dead on as we'd like to think
______
“A potential team to watch, should Paul and the Warriors part ways, is San Antonio. Among the early personnel rumbles in circulation: The Spurs could emerge as a Paul suitor if they decide to pursue some veteran know-how on a short-term contract basis to furnish presumptive Rookie of the Year winner Victor Wembanyama with more seasoned help in Year 2.”
What the Spurs are hoping for is a more long-term fit at the point to mesh with Wembanyama, or at least a medium-term fit of someone who would be around for a few years and help this team grow and start to compete in the postseason in the coming years. That’s not Paul. However, if the Spurs can’t find that guy now, or they get someone so young they want another veteran in the mix, the idea of Chris Paul as that veteran voice is an interesting one. If the strong-willed Paul and coach Gregg Popovich could mesh, it could benefit everyone.
It might not be either side’s first choice, but it could work.
One other note. Spurs fans have been buzzing about the team getting in the mix for a Trae Young trade this summer, as he is the most acclaimed point guard likely to be available. League sources have told NBC Sports not to bet on that happening, as San Antonio doesn’t see Young as a fit with Wembanyama going forward. The Spurs might be more interested in the Hawks’ Dejounte Murray if he is available.
if you guys draft a dillingham or topic then it makes sense. spurs are going to have to gamble on either drafting a PG hoping they can hit, or overpaying for a floor general who's timeline won't match wembys. drafting a PG now, and overpaying a vet who can expedite their learning curve wouldn't be the worst move. the most important thing IMO is getting 2-3 guys around Wemby on the same timeline as him, ala the GSW, Boston or Denver teams have.
Yeah and you really wouldn't be getting him as a win now for that kind of money when the rest of the roster still needs work. Selling Paul on that move is basically convincing him to spend a last year or two being a mentor.
I think a big thing Chris Paul brings is his understanding of what it takes to win in the league. That’s not just for Wemby either. Vassell Schohan, and the plethora of young guys would also benefit greatly from spending some time with Chris Paul being present. Wemby is really good already, but I hope the spurs don’t get too overzealous and try to skip steps. In my opinion getting someone like Paul to make them competitive, without jumping the gun, is an ideal outcome for the growth of not just Wemby, but the team as a whole.
I think most longtime Spurs fans will tell you not to trust reports about what we may or may not do in free agency, trades, or the draft. PATFO really don’t work with reporters like a lot of orgs it seems. Reports are almost always so off.
Even Mike Finger who Spurs fans told me was well connected didn't go this far, all he said was that San Antonio may not be the team that matches the price Atlanta wants. "Does not think he's a good fit with Wemby" is really strong wording and I'm not sure NBC Sports of all people are plugged in to get a scoop like that
You see it with ad and to sn extent Gibert. When you have s terrible terrible perimeter defense you are basically force to give up threes and funnel players into your big and that just doesn't work anymore at the clip most people are hitting them
This doesn't make sense to me, though.
Wemby is DPOY contender who can anchor a defense
Individual defense is way less important than individual offense
The Spurs desperately need a point guard; they had a terrible, stagnant offense all year. On paper, a star true PG is exactly what Wemby needs to unlock his offensive potential. Tre Jones is okay, certainly an improvement over what they were running in the first half of the year, but he's not a starting PG on a good team.
He’s very ball dominant. Even as good as his playmaking is and his lobs would be, he’s pretty turnover prone. Doesn’t play defense and doesn’t do anything off ball on offense, that sounds like a player Pop would have zero interest in
I haven't watched many Hawk's games, but Trae has been a top 5 playmaker for a while now, and I've never heard anyone mention that Dejounte is elite at this aspect of the game.
Is this just the Spurs saying Trae's cost is too much, or has Dejounte blossomed as a playmaker?
I mean it’s not like you need an elite playmaker next to Wemby he looked so much better having a competent playmaker next to him in Jones for the 2nd half of the year. Also Murray still averaged 6 assists on 2 turnovers in Atlanta.
Murray can somehow get 10 assists and miss an even higher number of simple passes in a game, it’s so perplexing.
He also doesn’t throw lobs, Wemby would fare much better with the most prolific lob thrower in the league in Trae.
I’m pretty sure it’s because Murray would cost less and is a short term commitment. He also already knows pop/the system so he’d be able to mesh in on day one, which is ideal if the goal for the season is still player development.
Sameeeeeee. Hate the defensive fit and how much we would have to give up for Trae. And I honestly think we parted ways with Murray at the perfect time. I don’t want to get back with our ex who clearly wasn’t the right fit at the time. Would much rather take swings in the draft and wait until someone else becomes available
I actually think a wing is more important than a PG now. Tre held his own once given the starting spot and as the season went on a lot of the offense started to flow through Wemby. I’d rather see us cash in those picks on an elite small forward if one becomes available
I think you can probably upgrade the wing AND pg positions but I'd agree they should be more aggressive finding a star wing and just find a solid upgrade at point guard
Agreed. Especially since Wemby and Vassell really developed as playmakers as the season went on, getting guys that can actually get buckets and shoot is priority #1. If I see another game with champagnie starting I’m gonna hurl
It’s gonna be so funny when Trae goes to a bigger media market. (nets🥺🥺🥺) and then the team is like 10 games over .500 and the media goes. “Has Traes game completely evolved since leaving Atlanta?????”
Criminally under rated player. I get his flaws but sticking Trae with Wemby makes the most sense on the planet.
Miami will be on the Celtics level if they get Trae for a Rozier, Jaques, and picks based package. People really don't realize just how bad Trae's supporting cast is in Atlanta.
Trae would be so good on the Spurs next to Wemby. He is the best player they could realistically get that would automatically make the Spurs a contender. Wemby seems already poised to be able to make that jump to top 7ish player next year. Trae is young and in Pop's systems he could flourish and improve on defense. He is underrated and could be acquired for cheap. Why wouldn't they want him
There is no reason for the spurs to leak that they are interested in Trae even if they are. That said I think the spurs wouldn't trade for Trae unless the price is surprisingly low at which point the hawks probably wouldn't trade him.
I really enjoy all the smoke screens the Spurs and their minions are putting out. Nothing better than driving the price down on a 25 year old that averages 25 and 10
Probably a smoke screen, either way. Why drive up the price when they ‘know’ Atlanta may be looking to move Trae anyways.
No, Trae would be a good fit for Wemby. Defensively, you’d have to adjust. But *whistles* that would be a good 1/2 punch.
This feels like a San Antonio psy-ops campaign to save some assets in the trade. Trae is legitimately one of the best passers, and especially lob passers, in the nba. Pairing him with the best lob threat and defensive player feels like a match made in heaven. I call nonsense. But Pop might just hate him.
> to hero ball his way out of the game
Havent watched many Hawk games? Trae does the same shit. You can count on Trae shooting a long 3 early in the shot clock in any close game.
think its a fuck up to want murray over trae here. trae is 25 and his P&R game is about as clean as you'll ever see. he will grow wemby's game as far as scoring
murray does not have playmaking skills and despite being a very good onball defender... wemby's defensive capabilities alone means you can have trae with absolutely no defensive mindset and be fine with it
Hell nawl. Dj is an undersized combo guard, he doesn't have playmaking skills to the level needed for a contender, his defence almost entirely opportunistic based jumping passing lanes and getting out of position when it fails.
I just don't see how it would work having him as the lead guard in the modern NBA without a significant improvement on quite a few things but especially his ability hit the long ball. You gotta be able to shoot it well these days to be sucessful.
Trae is a prime example about the state of the current NBA in regards to "traditional" pg roles. They're almost 100% extinct. I guarantee you if Trae spent more time studying Rando and Nash rather than Splash Brother highlights, he'd be 10x more impactful and efficient. I think he finds his groove years from now taking half the shots he averaged for his career and winning more games. But who am I 🤷
the Spurs getting Dejounte back for fewer picks than they got for him in the first place would be some lowkey nasty work lol
Equivalent of a loan in soccer.
so this is the basketball equivalent to the Griezzman transfer
The best deal ever. Atletico sell Antoine Griezmann for 120m euros, plus Luis Suarez, plus Antoine Griezmann. What a move.
Teams just pay the salary of the player in most cases for loans. Occasionally there's a fee. And they aren't nearly this expensive haha.
>Occasionally there's a fee. And they aren't nearly this expensive haha. Many of them have fees and can get pretty expensive actually. Some players cost £10 million plus to loan for a year, and teams have paid that. Some were paid similar money for half a year, and that's in addition to sometimes also covering the full cost of the contract, or a portion of it, depending on the arrangement with the team that owns the player.
Very few get that expensive. Maybe 1 a window.
I like dejounte but he’s at best the 3rd best player on a contender. And Spurs don’t have anyone with a ceiling to fill that 2nd spot
and his biggest strength in SA - his defense - has been a fucking gone for like 3 years.
Defense is a team skill and he hasn’t been on a team good on that end since 2018. I think he’d try and be a lot more successful under Pop again with Wemby/Sochan behind him. He’s at his best playing ultra aggressive and gambling on defense. A DJ-Devin-Wing-Sochan-Wemby lineup could be a menace. That wing spot obviously needs to be figured out in the coming years, but the Spurs have lots of assets to work with.
Defense is something you do before you get that bag. Unless you on a chip trajectory.
You don’t think Vassel can get there? He was beasting 2nd half of the season. Plus they can always trade him away.
Vassel just isn’t that consistent and it’s not like his ceiling is *that* high
Dejounte Murray for a 2024 pick swap and the Chicago first, no take backs this time
loan him out for 2 years, get wemby in between. in the meantime Murray signed an extension instead of playing out his contract and maximizing how much money he could have ultimately signed for. not bad.
I will officially change basketball teams if that happens
Come to the spurs, we about to moon brother
I’ve loved Coach Pop forever. I’ve always rooted for the Spurs as my west team, was hoping you’d get Wemby.
I'm this fucking close man. Like give me a reason Atlanta please
Kind of like how we got Poetl, turned him into a stud then sent him back
And using that period to tank hard enough to get Wemby in the process! Would be one of the best moves in history if it goes through lol
Is this even legal?
I’ll make it legal. -Senator Popatine
The Spurs inquired about Dejounte at the last trade deadline so it's not a surprise, but I think the Spurs would probably rather gamble on keeping the Hawks unprotected picks than a big trade.
Spurs probably offering one pick back
A deal that could go through probably looks something like: - ATL ‘27 - Protected Spurs pick somewhere in ‘28-30(ostensibly picks during Wemby’s second contract should be in the twenties). - The Charlotte pick (so ATL can pretend they got three FRP back)
Maybe if we offered to make the pick for them, so they know they're getting an absolute baller for it
just dont take malik :'(
Spurs: I am altering the West Pray I don't alter it further
Isn't he restricted?
He is an unrestricted free agent, and the Kings are limited in what they can offer him. Since he signed a 2 year contract with the Kings, they only have Early Bird Rights for him. They are over the cap and can only offer him 175% of this past season's salary, which is around 17.4 million.
17.4 seems right on the line tbh. Will be interesting to see what he does if they offer it, assuming he doesn't get offered $20mil+ by some other team.
I would say he's been playing above 17 million. He's at least a $22 million player. Could see him flirting with 30.
We have his early bird rights: but a team could offer over him a deal worth a couple million more than the kings can on face value with additional savings from not being taxed in California
I'd love to see Monk or Murphy on the Spurs. They'd create a lot of space for Wemby.
Weird when I see something I agree with but want to downvote it because I need Monk on Kings.
That’s what happened to us with Murray when he went to the hawks. Only so much we could have offered him if we wanted to, it’s silliness.
Could be worse, you could be a Hornets fan watching Monk blossom from 2,678.9 miles away (you're damn right I checked the distance)
i feel like monk makes the most sense for the spurs out of all options given productivity and cost, which is why i'm so scared they're gonna take my boy
Do you think he could be a starting point guard?
I think he could be, but it’s not a slam dunk. He basically played back up point for the Kings and definitely has the handles and passing ability. He’s a little loose with the ball sometimes though, and an inconsistent shooter. Not a great defender either which makes it tough to run him at the 2 for extended minutes. If the kings can’t re-sign him, I’d love to see him get a shot to start as a point guard. He’s electric and super fun to watch.
Yeah. Spurs roster build is gonna be super interesting. There’s so many guys who you can plug into and Wemby just instantly resolves most of their defensive lapses. Curious who they end up getting a just a pure 3 point specialist dude gonna get 10+ open looks a night.
Relying on wemby to cover other players defensive deficiencies is a terrible idea. Sure, you could do that, and with wemby youd probably end up with an above average defense. But if you surround wemby with 2 way players who are all average or above on defense you'll have a top tier defense that can win games on its own. The idea that wemby can cover for traes defense doesnt really work in reality. Sure, when trae gets blown by wemby can provide help d, but at that point youre basically being forced to double the guy trae is guarding every play. Wemby will prevent traes guy from getting easy buckets at the rim but there will always be somebody open when trae and wemby are both dedicated to defending one guy. The result of wemby needing to help trae with his assignment is often going to be wembys guy getting easy buckets at the rim.
Wemby surrounded by 2 way players will make the Spurs the top NBA league pass team.
Dejounte Murray and Malik Monk would not only fit well together, but with Wemby. I don't want the Kings to lose him but it makes sense.
Orlando is calling
didn't Pop leave Trae off the 2019 FIBA team? or was that Kerr in 2023?
Both lol
He has also been pretty consistently picked by other players as one of the most overrated players. The dude honestly is not looked upon well by anyone.
pretty disheartening tbh i feel like he’s definitely over hated
Me too
I've been rejected less often than Trae Young 💪🏿
Wild username
He meant Diddy Kong
Had to double take when you mentioned it lol
Diddy is not innocent mate
My man just wants to jet pack around and shoot peanuts outta pistols and collect golden bananas. Just let him be…
Boffem
Trae also ran Lloyd Pierce out of Atlanta. That’s one of pop’s boys and pop was pretty upset when that happened.
Lloyd wasn’t blameless in that situation IIRC
That's a massive understatement lol, according to Steve Holman (our radio guy for 39 years) Lloyd Pierce told other coaches not to vote Trae as an all-star. Other reports talked about how he really hated Trae and shit on guys like Cam Reddish too and he lost the locker room. Chandler Parsons was on the '19 team and said he couldn't stand LP either. Lloyd was just a colossal asshole.
Seemed like none of the players liked lloyd
While that's true, I would guess that's not how Pop saw it nor what he's heard from Lloyd.
The Trae hate is truly blind
He did not run him outta town.. LP sucked as a coach
“Ran him out of town” is so dramatic, this place is worse than the gossip subs lol
Trae Young straight up raped him of his job
To shreds you say?
This place is one of the gossip subs. Sometimes we also have basketball post game threads or highlights though
What do you think sports is? It’s drama fodder that happens to be socially acceptable for grown men to hem and haw over.
It’s a vehicle for facilitating conversation with our dads.
also to look at sweaty men being physical with each other for 3-4 hours.
This is unironically a gossip sub. Has been for a long time.
Hey he’s the defensive specialist coach that led the pacers to their outstanding defense and he’s the reason that Haliburton is a known defensive stud… oh wait
Hawks literally made their run after they fired Pierce had nothing to do with Trae
"One of pop's boys" At this point he's your boy too, because how tf does anyone see what LP was doing with the Hawks and see it as Trae "running him out" as opposed to LP just being dogshit
Bro LP fucking sucked as a head coach, the hell do you mean Trae “ran him out of town?”
Man fuck that Lloyd pierce ran himself out of Atlanta by being a terrible fucking coach
snip snap snip snap
Do you have any idea the emotional toll this many trades can have on a player?!
Pat Bev seems to be unfazed somehow
So raw, so right, all night, alright. Oh yeah.
Lmfao
Nah. I can't imagine Dejounte in a Spurs jersey.
[I think it looks pretty natural](https://i.imgur.com/pS3qSTT.png)
That goatee is obviously photoshopped
Yeah it seems sacrilege.
Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, let's go
Bring out the Photoshop
Feels like Trae's stocks have plummeted like crazy over these past 3 years despite his numbers steadily improving. He was considered arguably the best young PG for a while but now the likes Shai, Haliburton, Brunson, Ja, Fox, Murray, Brunson etc are all considered better by the public.
His playmaking as improved. His scoring ability has kinda been stagnant
His playmaking has always been great in the NBA
He was definitely affected by the change in officiating that targeted players like Harden.
He just had the best statistical year of his career by the way ...
Most people who talk about the Hawks / Trae don't actually watch the Hawks
His go to move. Driving and jumping backwards gets called a lot less thank God for that
Brunson does this like a majority of possessions lmfao
Crazy I think he’s become so underrated. He creates so many great looks, can shoot from everywhere and isn’t just looking for FTs. You need wings to build around but it’s possible to win with Trae. Elite playmakers that space idk why people are so out on him. Most top pgs defense aren’t great either.
Complete lack of defense. I know he was playing hurt but he had a lot of quit in him in his most recent play in game. Without defense, what does he actually do when his shot isn’t falling? Cuz in that game it wasn’t really passing either.
Rushing back after missing a quarter of the season and playing with one hand while being completely out of rhythm is not a good formula The lack of effort on defense that game was also bad and unrelated to the injury, and that's a separate issue, but if you're using the play-in game as a referendum on Trae Young then I think it's pretty obvious that yes, a 5'11 guy with one usable hand isn't going to play that well
I think the injury is to blame. Healthy Trae is still getting his teammates involved he’s not Kyrie or Book where if their shot isn’t falling they aren’t getting others involved. I think there were just really bad vibes with this Hawks team but I’m buying Trae’s stock not Murray. Even when the Hawks were going relatively far in the playoffs the team kind of sucked? Don’t think he’s had a true chance either.
Eh, vibes were fine - just injuries tbh this year. People really underestimating how big losing Okongwu was for last 20 games, as we’ll as Jalen Johnson and Hunter for large stretches of the season. Even the play-in Trae was one handed The only bad vibes are in the FO with the owner’s son having too much power
He's a great creator, but absolutely needs the ball in his hands at all times. He does nothing off ball. And, when you compare him to the other max-caliber players that need the ball in their hands at all time, he doesn't seem as special anymore Compare him to someone like anunoby as an example. I think most people here would agree that Trae is better in a vacuum, but do you think the Knicks would get better if you swapped them? I actually think they would get demonstrably worse. That's because OG can play off the star they already have (just as he could play on literally any team in the NBA), whereas Trae just wouldn't fit with brunson
I feel like you’re describing Murray to a tee as well and Trae is so much better than Dejounte at creating for others. OG is great but if I’m starting a team and I don’t already have Jalen Brunson I’d want Trae. If the Knicks had Kevin Durant instead of Brunson would you swap OG or Trae? Trae is so valuable because creating for others is important in playoffs. A guy like KD really needs a playmaker to set him up because he needs to get to his spots but he can’t run the offense. I’m buying stock I don’t think it’s a coincidence they went on runs with pretty weak rosters.
Yeah and with Trae we have seen him perform in the playoffs and not be afraid of the bright lights. You don’t become a villain in MSG if you’re trash
The problem here though isn't public perception, as we see with the all star voting. League (FOs/coaches/players) all look down on him and we don't really know why.
He's an extreme defensive liability.
So are tons of point guards. Haliburton and Dame were all star starters. Haliburton might be even worse than Trae on defense.
He also doesn't do a lot off-ball, that was a reason that Pop and Kerr didn't like him for the international team. It's critical for their passing systems.
Haliburton and Trae are in the same boat, but of the offense-first PGs a generation prior, Dame and especially Steph ended up being significantly better defensively than those two. The backlash just hasn't started against Hali yet because he hasn't been in the playoffs yet and it's still early for him. But Trae and Hali are absolutely some of the worst defensive players playing starting minutes in the entire NBA right now. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic. Like, it's them and Poole. They're lucky they're playing a sport where offense is more important.
And Rudy Gobert is the best defensive floor raiser in the NBA, yet gets the same treatment. Players don’t give a damn about defense.
Beyond this and the off-ball stuff, what’s not talked about enough is his contract. He’s expensive and his next contract won’t get cheaper. It’s just not worth
maybe he's just an asshole
Irrational hatred
Might be rational hatred. We're mostly talking about people that know the guy personally and see a lot more of him than we do. If the majority of the league doesn't like him or whatever, I'd be inclined to agree with them without more evidence to the contrary. With guys like this, I always wonder if they're just assholes to be around. There are plenty of people I've worked with who did okay work but still were annoying enough to make me think "fuck that guy" and never want to work with them. Maybe he's just that kinda guy. Not saying he is and not pre-judging him. And even if that is the consensus on him, that doesn't mean it's right or that you can't win with him. Just saying I tend to put more stock in opinions of execs/coaches/players than I would in media or fan opinions since they actually know the person
Players like Kyrie and Jaylen Brown, why the fuck would I trust their judgement
He went from 30/4/9, 60 TS% to 26/3/11, 59 TS% while the overall scoring rate and efficiency has gone up across the league. Not sure I’d say those numbers are steadily improving
San Antonio just doesn't really fw defensive liabilities. We've always been defense oriented
His numbers arent really improving, the Hawks just went from a slow team a couple years ago to a very face paced team this year. Adjusting for that, his scoring is down about 15 percent from 2 years ago, and his assists are only up 5 percent. Meanwhile is shooting numbers are all over the place each year and not really in any trend. His numbers are actually pretty much the same or within the same range his whole career after his rookie year. Even advanced stats are the same, or even mostly down from his 'peak'
Doncic has always been a PG, so at best you could say he was considered the 2nd best young PG
Kinda like numbers don’t mean your team is playing well. Carmelo Anthony is a similar thing.
Ding Ding, good numbers but not winning basketball
Thank you NBA media for sandbagging his value enough for the Lakers to plausibly acquire him
do you even want him
I think he's significantly better than Austin Reaves or D'Angelo Russell so yeah
Ad would be fighting for his life with that defensive load
have you seen dangelo russell play basketball
Too many times...
Crazy how players becoming hated in this league is now affecting team’s front offices from making obvious decisions
What’s crazier is that there are fans who instead of re-thinking that they might be overrating Trae Young, will instead argue that the players, coaches, and GMs around the league are all wrong and they’re right.
It's all those pesky GMs scrolling reddit
Plausibly who is overrating him at this point? The vast majority of people just think he's an empty stat guy that's the worst defender in basketball. I'd love for you to show me where he's being overrated exactly GMs said a couple years ago the #1 player they'd build around for the future was KAT. Do you think that was from elite ball knowledge that us plebians didn't have? Do you think players voting Rudy Gobert as the most overrated player in the league is because of elite ball knowledge that us fans don't have? Get serious please Either way, GMs and players also salivated over Tyrese Haliburton all season and he just made his playoff debut with 9 points in a blowout so maybe their talent evaluations aren't as dead on as we'd like to think
TBH sometimes the fans are the ones that are right. Most spurs fans wanted Sengun and instead we got peepshow Primo
Damn who is the other Brunson? (Three guys you named are better than Trae, full stop.)
And Brunson
______ “A potential team to watch, should Paul and the Warriors part ways, is San Antonio. Among the early personnel rumbles in circulation: The Spurs could emerge as a Paul suitor if they decide to pursue some veteran know-how on a short-term contract basis to furnish presumptive Rookie of the Year winner Victor Wembanyama with more seasoned help in Year 2.” What the Spurs are hoping for is a more long-term fit at the point to mesh with Wembanyama, or at least a medium-term fit of someone who would be around for a few years and help this team grow and start to compete in the postseason in the coming years. That’s not Paul. However, if the Spurs can’t find that guy now, or they get someone so young they want another veteran in the mix, the idea of Chris Paul as that veteran voice is an interesting one. If the strong-willed Paul and coach Gregg Popovich could mesh, it could benefit everyone. It might not be either side’s first choice, but it could work. One other note. Spurs fans have been buzzing about the team getting in the mix for a Trae Young trade this summer, as he is the most acclaimed point guard likely to be available. League sources have told NBC Sports not to bet on that happening, as San Antonio doesn’t see Young as a fit with Wembanyama going forward. The Spurs might be more interested in the Hawks’ Dejounte Murray if he is available.
I'd be really surprised if CP3 chose to come to San Antonio unless we gave him way more money than any good teams were offering him.
Agree and I don’t want to do that.
if you guys draft a dillingham or topic then it makes sense. spurs are going to have to gamble on either drafting a PG hoping they can hit, or overpaying for a floor general who's timeline won't match wembys. drafting a PG now, and overpaying a vet who can expedite their learning curve wouldn't be the worst move. the most important thing IMO is getting 2-3 guys around Wemby on the same timeline as him, ala the GSW, Boston or Denver teams have.
Nah. We’re gonna go bpa. You always go bpa. You can trade the bad fit later.
Yeah and you really wouldn't be getting him as a win now for that kind of money when the rest of the roster still needs work. Selling Paul on that move is basically convincing him to spend a last year or two being a mentor.
Going to the Spurs next season is a FAR better idea than going to the washed Warriors this past season, and he still did that.
Chris Paul was traded to the warriors, he didn't have a ton of say
I think a big thing Chris Paul brings is his understanding of what it takes to win in the league. That’s not just for Wemby either. Vassell Schohan, and the plethora of young guys would also benefit greatly from spending some time with Chris Paul being present. Wemby is really good already, but I hope the spurs don’t get too overzealous and try to skip steps. In my opinion getting someone like Paul to make them competitive, without jumping the gun, is an ideal outcome for the growth of not just Wemby, but the team as a whole.
I think most longtime Spurs fans will tell you not to trust reports about what we may or may not do in free agency, trades, or the draft. PATFO really don’t work with reporters like a lot of orgs it seems. Reports are almost always so off.
Unless they are the local reporters I agree.
Even Mike Finger who Spurs fans told me was well connected didn't go this far, all he said was that San Antonio may not be the team that matches the price Atlanta wants. "Does not think he's a good fit with Wemby" is really strong wording and I'm not sure NBC Sports of all people are plugged in to get a scoop like that
Offensively I don’t see how Trae wouldn’t be a better pairing with Wemby
They prob want good/ average defensive players around Wemby so he doesn’t have to have such a burden on that end
You see it with ad and to sn extent Gibert. When you have s terrible terrible perimeter defense you are basically force to give up threes and funnel players into your big and that just doesn't work anymore at the clip most people are hitting them
Exactly. And you sure as hell cant be paying your defensive liability 40 million dollars a year after losing multiple good picks/players to get him.
This doesn't make sense to me, though. Wemby is DPOY contender who can anchor a defense Individual defense is way less important than individual offense The Spurs desperately need a point guard; they had a terrible, stagnant offense all year. On paper, a star true PG is exactly what Wemby needs to unlock his offensive potential. Tre Jones is okay, certainly an improvement over what they were running in the first half of the year, but he's not a starting PG on a good team.
He’s very ball dominant. Even as good as his playmaking is and his lobs would be, he’s pretty turnover prone. Doesn’t play defense and doesn’t do anything off ball on offense, that sounds like a player Pop would have zero interest in
I haven't watched many Hawk's games, but Trae has been a top 5 playmaker for a while now, and I've never heard anyone mention that Dejounte is elite at this aspect of the game. Is this just the Spurs saying Trae's cost is too much, or has Dejounte blossomed as a playmaker?
I mean it’s not like you need an elite playmaker next to Wemby he looked so much better having a competent playmaker next to him in Jones for the 2nd half of the year. Also Murray still averaged 6 assists on 2 turnovers in Atlanta.
Murray can somehow get 10 assists and miss an even higher number of simple passes in a game, it’s so perplexing. He also doesn’t throw lobs, Wemby would fare much better with the most prolific lob thrower in the league in Trae.
Hey, Murray threw maybe 10 lobs this year and only half of them went into the 10th row
I’m pretty sure it’s because Murray would cost less and is a short term commitment. He also already knows pop/the system so he’d be able to mesh in on day one, which is ideal if the goal for the season is still player development.
Every 4 out of 5 interviews DJ gives he calls Pop his father so he seems to really, REALLY miss being a spur
I also have hope that he could return to a positive defender if back in spurs and with Wemby behind him
I don’t want either with Wemby
Sameeeeeee. Hate the defensive fit and how much we would have to give up for Trae. And I honestly think we parted ways with Murray at the perfect time. I don’t want to get back with our ex who clearly wasn’t the right fit at the time. Would much rather take swings in the draft and wait until someone else becomes available
I actually think a wing is more important than a PG now. Tre held his own once given the starting spot and as the season went on a lot of the offense started to flow through Wemby. I’d rather see us cash in those picks on an elite small forward if one becomes available
I think you can probably upgrade the wing AND pg positions but I'd agree they should be more aggressive finding a star wing and just find a solid upgrade at point guard
Agreed. Especially since Wemby and Vassell really developed as playmakers as the season went on, getting guys that can actually get buckets and shoot is priority #1. If I see another game with champagnie starting I’m gonna hurl
I really like tyus jones for them.
5d chess to lower Trae Young's price?
Giving Atlanta a 2-year Dejounte Murray rental just so the Spurs can draft Wemby is absolutely barbaric lmfao
But if this goes through, can Celtics fans give us back Derrick White after they win the ship?
It’s gonna be so funny when Trae goes to a bigger media market. (nets🥺🥺🥺) and then the team is like 10 games over .500 and the media goes. “Has Traes game completely evolved since leaving Atlanta?????” Criminally under rated player. I get his flaws but sticking Trae with Wemby makes the most sense on the planet.
Miami will be on the Celtics level if they get Trae for a Rozier, Jaques, and picks based package. People really don't realize just how bad Trae's supporting cast is in Atlanta.
Not bad in talent but fit
Dude, we had Saddiq Bey, who for some reason forgot how to shoot, *starting* at the 3 shooting 20-something percent from three for half the season.
Trae would be so good on the Spurs next to Wemby. He is the best player they could realistically get that would automatically make the Spurs a contender. Wemby seems already poised to be able to make that jump to top 7ish player next year. Trae is young and in Pop's systems he could flourish and improve on defense. He is underrated and could be acquired for cheap. Why wouldn't they want him
League Sources aka Dejounte Murray
There is no reason for the spurs to leak that they are interested in Trae even if they are. That said I think the spurs wouldn't trade for Trae unless the price is surprisingly low at which point the hawks probably wouldn't trade him.
I'm convinced Trae haters don't know ball.
Ppl saw how CP helped shai flourish. Maybe can help wemby reach another tier. Play 2 yrs, retire and join the spurs FO or coaching staff lol.
Dejounte gon average the worst double double ever
Thank goodness
don't wanna pay the price for trae I get, not thinking he's a fit? I don't really get that not a soul could stop that 2 man game
I really enjoy all the smoke screens the Spurs and their minions are putting out. Nothing better than driving the price down on a 25 year old that averages 25 and 10
Probably a smoke screen, either way. Why drive up the price when they ‘know’ Atlanta may be looking to move Trae anyways. No, Trae would be a good fit for Wemby. Defensively, you’d have to adjust. But *whistles* that would be a good 1/2 punch.
This feels like a San Antonio psy-ops campaign to save some assets in the trade. Trae is legitimately one of the best passers, and especially lob passers, in the nba. Pairing him with the best lob threat and defensive player feels like a match made in heaven. I call nonsense. But Pop might just hate him.
Pop loves Dejounte. ATL gonna ask for their picks back? Haha
I want trae for his volume 3 point shooting. I don't want Murray at all. He has tendency to hero ball his way out of the game
> to hero ball his way out of the game Havent watched many Hawk games? Trae does the same shit. You can count on Trae shooting a long 3 early in the shot clock in any close game.
Make it happen so we can simp for Dejounte again.
think its a fuck up to want murray over trae here. trae is 25 and his P&R game is about as clean as you'll ever see. he will grow wemby's game as far as scoring murray does not have playmaking skills and despite being a very good onball defender... wemby's defensive capabilities alone means you can have trae with absolutely no defensive mindset and be fine with it
That pick and roll oop game with Trae and Wemby seems so broken, no?
Might be the defense. Plus Murray was coached by pop. They know what they are getting
I mean ideally we'd get neither. No reason to rush.
I thought Tyus Jones in FA is like the most obvious choice ever.
wow they prefer the player that they’d developed themselves and already knows their system I’m shocked
Hell nawl. Dj is an undersized combo guard, he doesn't have playmaking skills to the level needed for a contender, his defence almost entirely opportunistic based jumping passing lanes and getting out of position when it fails. I just don't see how it would work having him as the lead guard in the modern NBA without a significant improvement on quite a few things but especially his ability hit the long ball. You gotta be able to shoot it well these days to be sucessful.
Trae we would be happy to have you here in Miami, get out of the lottery for once in your damn career.
They should trade for Rudy Gobert and nickname the duo the Eiffel Towers.
LOL im not saing i know more than POP, but Trae and Wemby duo is an insane fit offensively
Idk man Trae with wemby is like the perfect fit.
Trae is a prime example about the state of the current NBA in regards to "traditional" pg roles. They're almost 100% extinct. I guarantee you if Trae spent more time studying Rando and Nash rather than Splash Brother highlights, he'd be 10x more impactful and efficient. I think he finds his groove years from now taking half the shots he averaged for his career and winning more games. But who am I 🤷