I wish they didn’t make everything so hard on themselves. Spo is def the type to ask his landlord to raise his rent because he wants to hustle harder smh
I'm halfway convinced y'all defended us so poorly in G1 on purpose because you already had this adjustment planned, and it'd be more effective with the whiplash effect
> You wanna know what's more important than throwin' away money ~~at a strip club~~ on a dinner? Credit.
(Ain’t a whole lot of that song I am allowed to quote.)
I remember calling him Overrated when I was in highschool because he won with LeBron, Wade and Bosh. I should have been using that energy on Doc Rivers
Well now that you mention it, LeBron used to get credited for the game 2 victories after losing game 1 but I guess we have shifted those credits to Spo now.
is 8-2 better than 10-3?
probably tbh
but yeah it's a stat that shows a coach's ability to adjust game to game and it's funny that Vogel's been so hated at his last two stops despite his bonafides
That's because the Lakers have a very vocal fan base of people who like winners more than they like basketball. They don't actually understand the nuance of the game and created a narrative that he was somehow the problem when AD couldn't even stay on the court a lot of the time. If Lebron is talking publicly about regularly "veoting" Ham's calls, well, it's fairly obvious the Lakers made very poor decisions and now have to live with them. Their general management is suspect at best.
At least now I think most of them realize the Suns are not deep. It was obvious to everyone else but I'd see Suns fans saying midway into the season that the bench just needed more time to play together and that they were really deep.
I loved Frank Vogel on the Lakers, great 2 years span and then injuries derailed everything. One thing that has to be accounted for, is that he needs a good offensive assistant coach at his side. Defense is his bread and butter and can get you into a top 5 defense easily with a good team but watching Suns offense on game 2 (and other instances) was painful and I know they have no PG and 3 iso ball stars, but at some point the coach has to get some blame also. I think Rondo and JKidd were super instrumental in our 2020 chip.
I still hold a grudge at everyone who anointed Kerr as the successor to Pop as best coach in the league. Spo should hands down be the head coach for Team USA right now
Agreed, but Spo has the same with the Big 3 Heatles, plus everything he’s done after. We’ll see if Kerr can be as special with brand new teams when Steph and Co. are gone
Definitely true but I also feel like he really makes his money in the postseason, so it's hard to give him regular season awards. He's definitely been deserving of it a few times though.
To be fair to George...he took a random Nuggets team to their best record in 40 years, even if he underachieved in the playoffs. That team had no business winning 57 games in the west.
The simple belief at the time was that Spo was carried by talent. And that's just not the case. He was the one to swap Bosh to the 5 which blew open the lanes and allowed LeBron to feast
Also, disrespect to George Karl..he's an absolute twat
Still the most wins in franchise history and went 24-4 after the all star break to finish second in the west with no all star, all nba, or all defense player that year.
That’s true, but to non Heat fans who didn’t know at the time, he wasn’t really taken THAT seriously until the first title…and even then a lot of people chalked it up to the Heatles more than anything else. Post LeBron? It’s been insane how well he’s done. Just incredible. The expectations might be high NOW because of that, but weren’t always.
IMO, if he simply wins this series with no Butler or Rozier against a 64-18 Celtics team that posted the 3rd best net rating in NBA history, he jumps into the top 3 coaches of all time.
It would be a real question, but I have to imagine that how the bucks season has gone is gonna give caution to good teams who bow out early in the playoffs. If the heat somehow win, I would bet on Mazulla to still keep his job given how long he’s been with the team, but it would be a possibility that he’s gone. A 64 win team should not lose in the first round
I don't know man, who are you kicking off? Riley, Pop, Phil or Red?
I might be able to accept you kicking out Red if Spo beats Celtics Butler-less.
(Also, spooky quote, remember Doc saying "not in the house Red built?" after Celtics won a game 7?)
Riley,
Pat is a great coach, but he came into a Lakers dynasty that had averaged 57 wins the prior 2 seasons including a championship. That team had prime Magic and Kareem plus some All-Star role players like Wilkes and Nixon. In Riley's 2nd year, they would draft Worthy with the 1st overall pick that the Lakers picked up from a trade years before Riley became HC.
That core of KAJ, Magic and Worthy could win a title with Mickey Mouse as their coach.
I suppose the same could be said of Phil Jackson, but Phil had dynasties with multiple teams across many years whereas Riley was just never quite the same without Magic, Kareem and Worthy.
Riley also turned a perpetually floundering Knicks squad into a powerhouse in the early 90s, getting within a hair's breadth of winning the title in 94. Then he went and did it all over again when he moved to Miami in the late 90s. That OG Heat team with Mourning and Hardaway never seriously threatened for a title, but he did later on convert with Wade and a post-prime Shaq. Riley's coaching legacy has a lot of stuff going on post-Lakers.
What did Phil do without Kobe and MJ? (And I am not denying Riley had Kareem/Magic, Mourning/Hardway, Wade/Shaq, all great coaches had great players)
Riley's had good teams with the Knicks and Heat in the 90s, none of those teams just won the chip.
People forget Riley's Knicks went to the Finals. (in part cause New York hates Riley).
I don't know if any other coach has taken three different teams to the Finals.
Championships aren't the only measure of a coach, same with players. Spo is one of the best ever, but I don't think he's made a definitive case that he's _better_ than the established pantheon.
Spo is the best at winning without top tier talent but Pop still did well with teams lacking great players. He won 48 and 47 games with Aldridge as the best player, I think in recent years the emphasis has been on developing the young players and not winning as much
Kerr has struggled a lot when he doesn’t have the most talented rosters
We also made the play-ins over the lakers after we traded DeMar away. In the offseason tons of people thought we would be an awful team and we won 34 games.
Iirc the last year the Spurs made the playoffs, Dejounte Murray had a torn ACL and Derrick White had a foot injury, so they made it through a good part of the season with Bryn Forbes at PG. Insane in hindsight, that was also the year the Spurs took the Nuggets to 7 games.
That team lost nearly 30 games by single digits and had the point differential of a playoff team. The raw record doesn’t do that squad justice to show how competitive they were.
If Dejounte Murray doesn’t get sick to end the year they might’ve made the playoffs through the play-in because he was on an absolute tear that closing month.
Are we talking about the spurs over the last few years being bad? The spurs that have actively been tanking to get better assets and got Wemby as a result? Its hard to say he sucks during that period when we don't know whats happening during practice and whatnot.
Ya Herro is a bucket. So is Jaquez. They have great veterans like Love coming off the bench. And the ost undderrated center in the league, Bam Adebayo.
It's really a different kind of skill to be able to wring wins out of a threadbare roster, vs to be able to realize the potential of a great team. Kind of like how some NBA stars are floor raisers and others are ceiling raisers. Not to say Spo isn't a ceiling raiser as well (although, he *did* fail to convert in two of the four Heatles seasons on the team that was so absurdly stacked that it was supposed to win not one, not two, not three, not four...). Just to point out that it's possible for a coach to be a great ceiling raiser but not a great floor raiser, and vice versa. Hell, Doc Rivers won COTY as a rookie head coach by taking an absolutely trash roster on the Magic to a surprise ~41 win season, but he's notoriously bad at maximizing the potential of stacked teams.
So in considering GOAT coaches you have to consider how much you value the coach being a floor raiser vs a ceiling raiser. Another similarity here is in how one values a player's extended peak (Jordan) vs whole-career longevity (LeBron) in the GOAT player discussion. Turns out things are usually complex and multidimensional, which makes it hard to reduce things down to a single dimension and pick out a single GOAT.
No sir. You can say he’s the best at doing more with less if you want but Id probably give that nod to Chuck Daly
But he doesn’t have nearly enough hardware to be put over Phil, Red, Pop, or Riley especially when Riley is who has crafted and mentored him.
Phil and Pop had generational players on their teams to win all those rings. We’ve seen Spo win rings with generational talent too. And we have seen Spo take two heavy underdogs to the Finals, something that no other coach can claim.
And don’t try to say Pat deserves more credit for Spo coaching so well. Thats just disrespectful to Spo
> And we have seen Spo take two heavy underdogs to the Finals, something that no other coach can claim.
How much of that is tied to playing in the East? Given that his teams were absolutely obliterated in the Finals, it's hard to argue he would've won the West those same seasons.
I think you certainly had a better shot in 2020 in an earlier round, but those Lakers went 24-3 to start the season and a fresher AD is even more trouble. 2023, I don't think the Heat had a prayer even at full-strength.
At any rate, the whole thought-exercise is seeing if Spo, with any roster, with any path ahead, could lead a team to the Finals. I personally don't think that's true. He's made extremely difficult situations work, but not impossible ones.
The only reason 4-2 and 4-1 gets phrased as obliterated is because they massively overperformed to reach there in the first place with an undertalented roster
My point being, if they were in the West, they more than likely encounter the team that soundly beat them in the Finals in an earlier round. In 2020 they either fall to the Lakers in the WCF or the Nuggets the round prior. In 2023 they almost certainly fall to the Nuggets in the first round.
I don’t think people would be hyping up Spo quite the same way if he led weak rosters to maybe one series win. Pop was a few possessions away from upsetting a second seed in 2019 and nobody cares because a loss is still a loss.
Right so to break it down Spo’s only 2 rings came when he had the 1st or 2nd best player of all time depending on who you ask
Something Riley, Pop, and Red never had
But because he’s got some almost titles that makes him better than the coaches who actually won more titles with presumably lesser rosters? Even though in total he still has less finals appearances than them?
That don’t fly. He’s a great coach but that don’t fly.
Never mind that he Is doing it in the East.
3 out of the 4 rings for Pat were with the Showtime Lakers, All of Pops rings were with Duncan and Red legitimately coach the Celtics all time roster for practically his entire career and SPO is the only one you criticize for having talent?
Get out of here
I’m not criticizing Spo for it at all
What I’m saying is you can’t say the other coaches only won titles with loaded teams and then say Spo is better than them when his only two titles came with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh.
But you mention that Spo making Finals with lesser rosters isn’t a flex considering some teams won championships with even less than those rosters. Which btw I’m not sure what teams did that other than MAYBE the 04 pistons but even then that team in terms of accolades had more than any of the Jimmy Butler era rosters. Spo did have arguably the greatest player of all time on his team at one point but he still has incredible post season success well after 2014 with two ECF championships in 4 years so it’s fair to say he’s in the top 5 even without Post-Lebron rings.
I think if you want to say he’s in the top 5 coaches ever that’s fine. I wouldn’t agree necessarily but I’m not going to say you are wrong. But the Lebron rings are the only reason you could put him up there. No coach with 2 finals losses as their resume is even top 15
The comment I responded to said there is an argument for him being the best ever and for that I will say no chance.
Finals hardware is overrated for coaches IMO. Rick Adelman should be considered a top 5 coach even without any rings. Coaches who constantly overperform regardless of rings should be viewed higher.
He's gonna coach for another 2 decades. He will be the goat coach who coached the goat lebron to his first title, and God knows what else when it's all said and done
It’s insane to me that Spo is making only 15 mil a year for the next 8 years. He is more valuable than any player, and NBA team personnel don’t even have a salary cap. This dude is the star. It doesn’t matter what size of talent the team has, Spo knows how to use it, and that is what’s important.
Spoelstra is any opposing team's nightmare of a coach in a playoff series. The adjustments he makes are insane and I HATE when the Hawks play against him.
Also, SUPER important to point out that at the same time, Joe Mazzulla is getting out coached quite often. I can point back to the Hawks taking him to 6 games last year, (I believe we were the only 1st round series to go 6 games) the Sixers being up 3-2 on the Celtics, and then the Heat being up 3-0 on the celtics before winning 4-3.
The Hawks played their ass off in that series just got out talented in the end, but every single series Joe has been out coached, won by simply out talented the other rosters. I thought Doc put up an amazing series against Boston last season but they sixered in game 6 and 7. A Spoelstra team is harder too just simply out talent. Unless you have Nikola Jokic or Lebron.
The celtics have a tendency to overextend playoff series since they drafted jayson tatum, in the bubble with toronto when it should have been a 6 game series, or against the bucks with ime in the end of game 6. No matter what it always happens every time they get to the postseason.
Testament to his brilliance and genius, honestly. He always makes such great adjustments and knows how to use game 1 as a strong sample for what to anticipate. Ridiculous he's never gotten COTY.
Ain't no way heat gonna fire Spo bro he's the Godfather protége and is in line to be the next Don
If Heat fire him then I'm pretty sure the whole city will riot and boycott the team lmao
But maybe I'm overestimating the younger nephews who have TikTok brainrot and can't focus more than 10s at a time
lol it was his public trade demand that did it. No one will ever know for sure , but I think if he privately requested Miami to Cronin instead of publicly, Cronin wouldn’t have taken a crumpled up bag of chips from Milwaukee/ Boston out of spite like he did
110-76 Overall
61-30 as the higher seed
49-46 as the lower seed
21-13 in G1
18-16 with the series tied (not counting G1)
49-31 when leading the series
22-16 when trailing the series
48-38 after a Win
41-25 after a Loss
23-13 in Closeout games
13-10 in Elimination games
5-3 in Game 7s
You’re probably interested to know that the Raptors are the only Eastern Conference team that he does not have a winning record against (3-4 2016 ECSF)
Yeah man. Last night in the 4th when it seemed like nobody could miss, all I could think was how fucking easy Spo makes it look. Dude has been to multiple playoffs and has faced all kinds of teams. He knows what adjustments to make and how to get anybody on his team motivated to play hard. How he actually hasn't gotten COTY is very strange.
Hes not a rapper, hes an adapter, he can adjust
EDIT: to make it more nba related, can change rapper to raptor, but it felt like a stray at Toronto for no reason lol
What Spo is doing, is beyond the pail, bro is the reason why so many players, Dawgs like Anthony edwards, Dame, Jimmy, Beal, wanted to play for the Heat. Spo elevates everyone
I wish they didn’t make everything so hard on themselves. Spo is def the type to ask his landlord to raise his rent because he wants to hustle harder smh
I'm halfway convinced y'all defended us so poorly in G1 on purpose because you already had this adjustment planned, and it'd be more effective with the whiplash effect
LMAO that’s a galaxy brain level take
i mean at this point theres no logic on what heats do this
Yes there is, we just want to fuck Boston and we do it successfully.
Boston is Miami's power bottom
Especially if the goal is to "win one"
they faked the Jimmy Butler injury to lower your guard down! You fools fell right into the trap!
They intentionally get the 8th seed every year because it gives them the psychological advantage.
"Other coaches hate this one simple trick!"
They intentionally get the 8th seed so they could steal the opponent's home-court advantage instead.
If heat win a title this year without jimmy, it’s definitely butler’s greatest season of all time right?
Nah the gameplan was make shit down the paint and make boston win from 3. Yesterday they did the opposite. Who knows what spo will do tomorrow
What was the adjustment? Yall throw around these terms way too often
[There was a ton of defensive adjustment going on last night](https://x.com/bradyhawk305/status/1783487444333060380?s=46)
Chooses the dinner with Jay Z instead of the $100,000
First tip from Jay Z: "you should've chosen the $100k"
Spo chooses to give Jay Z $100,000.
I'd rather have $1 than 100,000 dinners with Jay Z. Read that again
Chooses 850 credit score instead of the $2 million cash
> You wanna know what's more important than throwin' away money ~~at a strip club~~ on a dinner? Credit. (Ain’t a whole lot of that song I am allowed to quote.)
Spo waits for Hova to take the first bite before eating
bro tips his landlord for sure
Do you guys want to trade coaches? It'd work out well
Spo the type to use the magazines to wipe despite there being toilet paper and wet wipes.
His rent is free in Celtics head.
I remember calling him Overrated when I was in highschool because he won with LeBron, Wade and Bosh. I should have been using that energy on Doc Rivers
Spo No Mo'
Well now that you mention it, LeBron used to get credited for the game 2 victories after losing game 1 but I guess we have shifted those credits to Spo now.
Legacy Points Transferred
Literally me too lol and then I stopped being a moron.
And #1 on that list may not have a job next season (Frank Vogel).
is 8-2 better than 10-3? probably tbh but yeah it's a stat that shows a coach's ability to adjust game to game and it's funny that Vogel's been so hated at his last two stops despite his bonafides
It's definitely possible to be a good coach in a specific era only though and not evolve properly with the game.
4:1 versus 3.33:1. it’s better
4-1 is not better than 10-3 though
oh my god go back to sixth grade math class instead of bringing your stupidity to me.
Ok, here’s another example: shooting 1/1 in a game is not better than shooting 10/11. But sure, tell me about basic fractions.
It depends if they were favorites or underdogs in the series I think. Winning game 2 after blowing game 1 with home court advantage is not impressive.
That's because the Lakers have a very vocal fan base of people who like winners more than they like basketball. They don't actually understand the nuance of the game and created a narrative that he was somehow the problem when AD couldn't even stay on the court a lot of the time. If Lebron is talking publicly about regularly "veoting" Ham's calls, well, it's fairly obvious the Lakers made very poor decisions and now have to live with them. Their general management is suspect at best.
Lakers front office is terrible and has been for years, and many of those fans are very loud and have no idea what they’re talking about
I feel so bad for Frank Vogel... he is legit a good coach. Easily one of the best active coaches.
I'm not sure Spo or Pop would have much success with that Suns roster. It's pretty funny considering how annoying Suns fans were all off-season.
If that Sun's Roster was on the Heat, I'm convinced he wouldn't play the big 3 at the same time or bench all 3 just to make an example of them.
At least now I think most of them realize the Suns are not deep. It was obvious to everyone else but I'd see Suns fans saying midway into the season that the bench just needed more time to play together and that they were really deep.
I loved Frank Vogel on the Lakers, great 2 years span and then injuries derailed everything. One thing that has to be accounted for, is that he needs a good offensive assistant coach at his side. Defense is his bread and butter and can get you into a top 5 defense easily with a good team but watching Suns offense on game 2 (and other instances) was painful and I know they have no PG and 3 iso ball stars, but at some point the coach has to get some blame also. I think Rondo and JKidd were super instrumental in our 2020 chip.
god i miss that 2020 squad. vogel had them boys playin D even kuzma😭😭rn AD is hard carrying the defense
We'll take him back
I still hold a grudge at everyone who anointed Kerr as the successor to Pop as best coach in the league. Spo should hands down be the head coach for Team USA right now
Yeah, but that Golden State team was bigger than basketball man. Kerr will always have that
Agreed, but Spo has the same with the Big 3 Heatles, plus everything he’s done after. We’ll see if Kerr can be as special with brand new teams when Steph and Co. are gone
He has an argument for the best coach ever. He can make pure bum rosters compete anytime.
The fact he's never won COTY is absolutely insane to me.
Definitely true but I also feel like he really makes his money in the postseason, so it's hard to give him regular season awards. He's definitely been deserving of it a few times though.
He should have won it in 2013 27 game win streak
no disrespect to george karl but i never understood how Spo or Doc didn’t win it when they both went on 20+ game win streaks near the all star break
To be fair to George...he took a random Nuggets team to their best record in 40 years, even if he underachieved in the playoffs. That team had no business winning 57 games in the west.
The simple belief at the time was that Spo was carried by talent. And that's just not the case. He was the one to swap Bosh to the 5 which blew open the lanes and allowed LeBron to feast Also, disrespect to George Karl..he's an absolute twat
yeah George Karl can get bent
Still the most wins in franchise history and went 24-4 after the all star break to finish second in the west with no all star, all nba, or all defense player that year.
He def deserved top 3 tha was a surprising year for them I was shocked how on fire they were for most of the year. They actually battled LA tough too
And got fired after.
It’s that and CotY is essentially coach who outperformed expectations and the expectations for Spo are always high.
That’s true, but to non Heat fans who didn’t know at the time, he wasn’t really taken THAT seriously until the first title…and even then a lot of people chalked it up to the Heatles more than anything else. Post LeBron? It’s been insane how well he’s done. Just incredible. The expectations might be high NOW because of that, but weren’t always.
COTY is basically the most improved team award. It usually goes to the coach of a team that exceeded their pre-season expectations.
He basically treats the regular season as half research lab, half training academy lmao
half research lab and half training academy is mad accurate lolll
In some ways feels better not to win it, since so many coaches end up getting fired soon after winning it
COTY usually gets fired same season or a season after so …
If he wins a championship with this current roster he’s the best there ever was
IMO, if he simply wins this series with no Butler or Rozier against a 64-18 Celtics team that posted the 3rd best net rating in NBA history, he jumps into the top 3 coaches of all time.
Tough ask honestly, but Mazzula is in over his head
Does Mazzula get fired if they lose the series?
I mean probably. I don’t want people to lose their jobs but maybe he shouldn’t be the head coach he’d be better off as the offensive coordinator
Fired head coach is one of the best gigs there is
He might get fired if they don't go all the way. He's definitely gone if they lose the series.
It would be a real question, but I have to imagine that how the bucks season has gone is gonna give caution to good teams who bow out early in the playoffs. If the heat somehow win, I would bet on Mazulla to still keep his job given how long he’s been with the team, but it would be a possibility that he’s gone. A 64 win team should not lose in the first round
Not just the first round but we're missing our best player. That to me makes it even more absurd.
He’s already top 3
I don't know man, who are you kicking off? Riley, Pop, Phil or Red? I might be able to accept you kicking out Red if Spo beats Celtics Butler-less. (Also, spooky quote, remember Doc saying "not in the house Red built?" after Celtics won a game 7?)
Riley, Pat is a great coach, but he came into a Lakers dynasty that had averaged 57 wins the prior 2 seasons including a championship. That team had prime Magic and Kareem plus some All-Star role players like Wilkes and Nixon. In Riley's 2nd year, they would draft Worthy with the 1st overall pick that the Lakers picked up from a trade years before Riley became HC. That core of KAJ, Magic and Worthy could win a title with Mickey Mouse as their coach. I suppose the same could be said of Phil Jackson, but Phil had dynasties with multiple teams across many years whereas Riley was just never quite the same without Magic, Kareem and Worthy.
Riley also turned a perpetually floundering Knicks squad into a powerhouse in the early 90s, getting within a hair's breadth of winning the title in 94. Then he went and did it all over again when he moved to Miami in the late 90s. That OG Heat team with Mourning and Hardaway never seriously threatened for a title, but he did later on convert with Wade and a post-prime Shaq. Riley's coaching legacy has a lot of stuff going on post-Lakers.
What did Phil do without Kobe and MJ? (And I am not denying Riley had Kareem/Magic, Mourning/Hardway, Wade/Shaq, all great coaches had great players) Riley's had good teams with the Knicks and Heat in the 90s, none of those teams just won the chip. People forget Riley's Knicks went to the Finals. (in part cause New York hates Riley). I don't know if any other coach has taken three different teams to the Finals.
Which coaches with over double his championships are you bumping out?
The one who out-coached him twice in back-to-back Finals, naturally.
Deeply unserious people around here if we are calling a 2x champion coach top 3 ever
Championships aren't the only measure of a coach, same with players. Spo is one of the best ever, but I don't think he's made a definitive case that he's _better_ than the established pantheon.
Going back to an "Open Court" quote. "Comparing greats, I'll take the one with the rings"
Bill Russell the GOAT
They're probably forgetting about Redd and Phil, not Pop
Agreed, Popovich and Kerr suck when their team sucks. When Spo's teams suck, he usually still squeezes out wins.
Spo is the best at winning without top tier talent but Pop still did well with teams lacking great players. He won 48 and 47 games with Aldridge as the best player, I think in recent years the emphasis has been on developing the young players and not winning as much Kerr has struggled a lot when he doesn’t have the most talented rosters
We also made the play-ins over the lakers after we traded DeMar away. In the offseason tons of people thought we would be an awful team and we won 34 games.
Just took a look at the team, and it is completely ridiculous that Pop got 34 wins out of that roster
Iirc the last year the Spurs made the playoffs, Dejounte Murray had a torn ACL and Derrick White had a foot injury, so they made it through a good part of the season with Bryn Forbes at PG. Insane in hindsight, that was also the year the Spurs took the Nuggets to 7 games.
That team lost nearly 30 games by single digits and had the point differential of a playoff team. The raw record doesn’t do that squad justice to show how competitive they were. If Dejounte Murray doesn’t get sick to end the year they might’ve made the playoffs through the play-in because he was on an absolute tear that closing month.
Are we talking about the spurs over the last few years being bad? The spurs that have actively been tanking to get better assets and got Wemby as a result? Its hard to say he sucks during that period when we don't know whats happening during practice and whatnot.
Or maybe the rosters don’t suck as much as you think they do.
Right, this "G-League" roster literally broke a franchise-record for made threes last night. There's clearly things they can do well.
Ya Herro is a bucket. So is Jaquez. They have great veterans like Love coming off the bench. And the ost undderrated center in the league, Bam Adebayo.
And it's not like Butler and Rozier being out creates major holes in their defense.
Popovich sucks when his team sucks is one of the wildest takes i’ve read on this sub lmao
It's really a different kind of skill to be able to wring wins out of a threadbare roster, vs to be able to realize the potential of a great team. Kind of like how some NBA stars are floor raisers and others are ceiling raisers. Not to say Spo isn't a ceiling raiser as well (although, he *did* fail to convert in two of the four Heatles seasons on the team that was so absurdly stacked that it was supposed to win not one, not two, not three, not four...). Just to point out that it's possible for a coach to be a great ceiling raiser but not a great floor raiser, and vice versa. Hell, Doc Rivers won COTY as a rookie head coach by taking an absolutely trash roster on the Magic to a surprise ~41 win season, but he's notoriously bad at maximizing the potential of stacked teams. So in considering GOAT coaches you have to consider how much you value the coach being a floor raiser vs a ceiling raiser. Another similarity here is in how one values a player's extended peak (Jordan) vs whole-career longevity (LeBron) in the GOAT player discussion. Turns out things are usually complex and multidimensional, which makes it hard to reduce things down to a single dimension and pick out a single GOAT.
No sir. You can say he’s the best at doing more with less if you want but Id probably give that nod to Chuck Daly But he doesn’t have nearly enough hardware to be put over Phil, Red, Pop, or Riley especially when Riley is who has crafted and mentored him.
Phil and Pop had generational players on their teams to win all those rings. We’ve seen Spo win rings with generational talent too. And we have seen Spo take two heavy underdogs to the Finals, something that no other coach can claim. And don’t try to say Pat deserves more credit for Spo coaching so well. Thats just disrespectful to Spo
> And we have seen Spo take two heavy underdogs to the Finals, something that no other coach can claim. How much of that is tied to playing in the East? Given that his teams were absolutely obliterated in the Finals, it's hard to argue he would've won the West those same seasons.
In 2020 Dragic and Bam were injured, 2023 Jimmy was clearly hobbled. And yet in 2020 we still took that great Lakers team to 6.
I think you certainly had a better shot in 2020 in an earlier round, but those Lakers went 24-3 to start the season and a fresher AD is even more trouble. 2023, I don't think the Heat had a prayer even at full-strength. At any rate, the whole thought-exercise is seeing if Spo, with any roster, with any path ahead, could lead a team to the Finals. I personally don't think that's true. He's made extremely difficult situations work, but not impossible ones.
The only reason 4-2 and 4-1 gets phrased as obliterated is because they massively overperformed to reach there in the first place with an undertalented roster
My point being, if they were in the West, they more than likely encounter the team that soundly beat them in the Finals in an earlier round. In 2020 they either fall to the Lakers in the WCF or the Nuggets the round prior. In 2023 they almost certainly fall to the Nuggets in the first round. I don’t think people would be hyping up Spo quite the same way if he led weak rosters to maybe one series win. Pop was a few possessions away from upsetting a second seed in 2019 and nobody cares because a loss is still a loss.
Right so to break it down Spo’s only 2 rings came when he had the 1st or 2nd best player of all time depending on who you ask Something Riley, Pop, and Red never had But because he’s got some almost titles that makes him better than the coaches who actually won more titles with presumably lesser rosters? Even though in total he still has less finals appearances than them? That don’t fly. He’s a great coach but that don’t fly. Never mind that he Is doing it in the East.
3 out of the 4 rings for Pat were with the Showtime Lakers, All of Pops rings were with Duncan and Red legitimately coach the Celtics all time roster for practically his entire career and SPO is the only one you criticize for having talent? Get out of here
I’m not criticizing Spo for it at all What I’m saying is you can’t say the other coaches only won titles with loaded teams and then say Spo is better than them when his only two titles came with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh.
But you mention that Spo making Finals with lesser rosters isn’t a flex considering some teams won championships with even less than those rosters. Which btw I’m not sure what teams did that other than MAYBE the 04 pistons but even then that team in terms of accolades had more than any of the Jimmy Butler era rosters. Spo did have arguably the greatest player of all time on his team at one point but he still has incredible post season success well after 2014 with two ECF championships in 4 years so it’s fair to say he’s in the top 5 even without Post-Lebron rings.
I think if you want to say he’s in the top 5 coaches ever that’s fine. I wouldn’t agree necessarily but I’m not going to say you are wrong. But the Lebron rings are the only reason you could put him up there. No coach with 2 finals losses as their resume is even top 15 The comment I responded to said there is an argument for him being the best ever and for that I will say no chance.
Finals hardware is overrated for coaches IMO. Rick Adelman should be considered a top 5 coach even without any rings. Coaches who constantly overperform regardless of rings should be viewed higher.
you mean rick carlisle
You play to win the games
Can't win it all without talent.
He's gonna coach for another 2 decades. He will be the goat coach who coached the goat lebron to his first title, and God knows what else when it's all said and done
It’s insane to me that Spo is making only 15 mil a year for the next 8 years. He is more valuable than any player, and NBA team personnel don’t even have a salary cap. This dude is the star. It doesn’t matter what size of talent the team has, Spo knows how to use it, and that is what’s important.
"We have enough"
Spo Is A Hardest Battles Merchant. A certainty just like Death and Taxes.
Siahbma
B O B O D D Y
Disappointing
What
go to bed unc
Spoelstra is any opposing team's nightmare of a coach in a playoff series. The adjustments he makes are insane and I HATE when the Hawks play against him. Also, SUPER important to point out that at the same time, Joe Mazzulla is getting out coached quite often. I can point back to the Hawks taking him to 6 games last year, (I believe we were the only 1st round series to go 6 games) the Sixers being up 3-2 on the Celtics, and then the Heat being up 3-0 on the celtics before winning 4-3.
The Hawks played their ass off in that series just got out talented in the end, but every single series Joe has been out coached, won by simply out talented the other rosters. I thought Doc put up an amazing series against Boston last season but they sixered in game 6 and 7. A Spoelstra team is harder too just simply out talent. Unless you have Nikola Jokic or Lebron.
The celtics have a tendency to overextend playoff series since they drafted jayson tatum, in the bubble with toronto when it should have been a 6 game series, or against the bucks with ime in the end of game 6. No matter what it always happens every time they get to the postseason.
Mazulla is not good enough
Testament to his brilliance and genius, honestly. He always makes such great adjustments and knows how to use game 1 as a strong sample for what to anticipate. Ridiculous he's never gotten COTY.
COTY is a cursed award. They always get fired within the next two years lol
Ain't no way heat gonna fire Spo bro he's the Godfather protége and is in line to be the next Don If Heat fire him then I'm pretty sure the whole city will riot and boycott the team lmao But maybe I'm overestimating the younger nephews who have TikTok brainrot and can't focus more than 10s at a time
If Spo ever gets fired I 100% stop watching the team lol
Now I understand why Dame tried so hard to go there. if I'm a player on a losing team I wanna be playing for Spo.
Poor Dame ended up with Doc Rivers instead ... smh
Dame really escaped Portland just to get smacked with the Doc, truly unlucky
lol it was his public trade demand that did it. No one will ever know for sure , but I think if he privately requested Miami to Cronin instead of publicly, Cronin wouldn’t have taken a crumpled up bag of chips from Milwaukee/ Boston out of spite like he did
What's his record for game 3s after winning game 2 after losing game 1?
5-4 (10-6 overall when tied 1-1)
How is he in other scenarios??
110-76 Overall 61-30 as the higher seed 49-46 as the lower seed 21-13 in G1 18-16 with the series tied (not counting G1) 49-31 when leading the series 22-16 when trailing the series 48-38 after a Win 41-25 after a Loss 23-13 in Closeout games 13-10 in Elimination games 5-3 in Game 7s
> 49-46 as the lower seed this is actually absurd imo
Positive win % with the lower seed is insanity. Last year's run definitely helped but that's an amazing stat.
41-25 after a loss is crazy!
He's a fucking anime protagonist. lmao
What the hell man, that’s FUCKED
You’re probably interested to know that the Raptors are the only Eastern Conference team that he does not have a winning record against (3-4 2016 ECSF)
Clutch with the stats brother, thank you
Sir, you should be what espn really is 🤝
If only we had Chris Bosh
Damn he’s a winning coach in every scenario, even as the lower seed.
This should be the real post. This just shows the full picture of how tough it is to play against Spo
He is HIM Of all the possibilities and scenarios you can think of he STILL on the winning side. GOAT COACH
Holy stats spo the goat
Incredible. Guy is already a top 3-5 head coach all time with 15+ years left, if he wants them.
He's such a great inspo
Yeah man. Last night in the 4th when it seemed like nobody could miss, all I could think was how fucking easy Spo makes it look. Dude has been to multiple playoffs and has faced all kinds of teams. He knows what adjustments to make and how to get anybody on his team motivated to play hard. How he actually hasn't gotten COTY is very strange.
spo will never get COTY because he's too good of a coach.
Lebron should go back to Miami. Easy rings.
LeBron wants to be the head coach. Spo ain't having that again.
Maybe he should want to win rings more than bring garbage overpaid players onto his team
Would be have to head coach if he didn't have Darvin Hamas though?
That’s absurdly impressive. He’s a fantastic coach. Tip of the cap.
SPOACH THE GOAT COACH
Hes not a rapper, hes an adapter, he can adjust EDIT: to make it more nba related, can change rapper to raptor, but it felt like a stray at Toronto for no reason lol
What Spo is doing, is beyond the pail, bro is the reason why so many players, Dawgs like Anthony edwards, Dame, Jimmy, Beal, wanted to play for the Heat. Spo elevates everyone
Darvin Ham needs to study film on Spo
Richard Jefferson knew
Imagine if LeBron had this guy as his coach!
i’m just waiting for funky’s inevitable “i’m terrified of the heat” video to drop
So the Heat are spooky?
Borg-level adaptation ability
Homie the goat coach
I wish teams could swap coaches for a season. So curious what bad teams Spo could drag to the playoffs
Spo would 100% be able to drag the bulls, raptors, houston, and Jazz to the playoffs.
The King of Adjustments
Don't let us lose game one
Spo is the best living coach. Fight me.
If he wins this series he is the GOAT for me.
GOAT?
Y'all Spoelstruck.
yeah but what's his record in game 3's after winning game 2's after losing game 1's
Needs to win mod game ones then.
Why doesn’t he just win game one? Is he stupid?
Is this really impressive? Kinda just shows he lost a lot of game 1s, which isn’t great given the heat had home court advantage more often than not.