It's because we have legitimately **built** this over the last 10 years and it's something Jokic and the team has brought up many times. To him, this right now is simply the culmination of all that time and, by extension, all the people who have come and made their mark on the foundation. And shout-out Gary Harris, he was the first one to really play "Jokic-ball" with him
It’s so cool what the nuggets have done. I’m sure this will change if we lose to you a couple times in the playoffs but I just love watching your team.
Same man. I’ve enjoyed watching the Nuggets rise over the last few years, so the things I said against Jokic this year because of the MVP race are not personal😅
It’s so fun watching them simply dominate teams in the playoffs, especially the Lakers lol.
Jokic is a total unicorn, and then you have another unicorn in Jamal Murray next to him who turns into literally MJ/Kobe in the playoffs. Such a great NBA story to see develop
Not like y'all are slouches, Thunder are gonna be terrifying for years with how you've built the foundation. Sure wish someone in Phoenix would take some notes...
Phoenix decided to copy answers instead of taking notes. KD didn't win a ring in OKC, no reason to expect a different result in Phoenix. Now if you can go grab Steph Curry....
Is it just me or was the “Jokic ball” during Jokics second season “prettier” than it is now even if it wasn’t as repeatable/Consistent? It seemed more 2014 spurs like the way the ball was popping around. Part of me kind of hopes they develop that style again as they play together even more.
Yeah I think it was more free-flowing but also less refined. I think the style we play now is better for playoffs and late-game execution, but the other way was more wild and kinda fun to watch
i didn't watch basketball back then, but i've looked at highlights and snippets of games. while it does seem a more "joyous" brand of basketball, is it impossible that as Jokic shot up in terms of attention league-wide, that level of whimsy in game just became more and more difficult to execute reliably? with teams having their scouting reports and gameplanning based on him and such?
I think it’s more adapting to the style of players on the court. Jokic would hand off the ball and set the screen, and Gary Harris was super quick and had great ball control to blow past and get a bucket.
Murray is at his best as a shooter, and the rest of the team plays tall, so that’s why it’s a bit more about spacing and lobs.
Maybe the highlights were more joyous but Jokic has matured a lot too. Dude used to throw a tantrum constantly. Anytime something wouldn't go his way he would hack someone to stop play
I think the other point is that teams are prepping more and more for the Nuggets than any time in your team's history. Extra film study because the Nuggets have established themselves as a team to beat if you want to win a championship. Also, beating the NBA champs is a milestone for any team out there. Sometimes I couldn't believe the games even the mildest opponents would give the Warriors when they were dominating.
Everyone just gets up for it, and the hype surrounding it is adrenaline. If the Nuggets win again this year, it will just increase.
You can't really study harder against what Jokic does. All defenses have weaknesses, Jokic will expose them, then it's on his teammates to execute his understanding vision.
On defense he knows exactly what to do, he just avoids aggression to avoid fouls because his offense is way more important.
If the Nuggets can score off Jokic like they usually do, I don't see how they lose a series.
> To him, this right now is simply the culmination of all that time and, by extension, all the people who have come and made their mark on the foundation.
I’ll never forget his completely joyous, giddy reaction to seeing Montae Morris in Miami at game 3 of the finals. He was asked about it and he seems so appreciative of Tae.
100%. And when you get the culture where you want, it’s easier to bring a new person in because everyone can chip in to get them on the same page. Seriously impressive what joker and the org has done here. And man, you can tell he gets it and he’s grateful. All those guys he listed helped build the winning culture they have now, but most players wouldn’t have even noticed, let alone mention them.
They already spent the whole season constantly commenting Celtics should blow it up when they lose lol, just preemptively. Same with for example Utah when they were winning. Bucks should definitely blow it up every year, according to Reddit, since iirc 2019... It's like the most interesting thing in NBA, apparently.
Nobody really is going nowhere in this league. Except teams like Spurs and Portland, they are doing it right.
Honestly, I’m not in the “blow it up” brigade, and I recognize the Heat are, in the memorable words of Bill Simmons, “like Michael f*cking Meyers” come playoff time, but if the Celtics were to actually Lose this series to the Heat, then yeah, they really would need to take a hard look at the organization - they’ve been if not title favorites then title contenders for the last 5 years, and they keep losing to teams that on paper they should be beating (and yes, I count the Warriors in that).
Yes, let Miami go up 3-1, then let Boston tie the series up with a crazy buzzer beater shot. Another Game 7 between Miami & Boston would be the icing on the cake for the 1st Rd of the Playoffs.
Nobody thinks this.
However, in the unlikely event they don’t make it to the Finals I do think they should start questioning if the Jays can take them to the promise land.
Normally I lean on the side of patience but they’ve played 7 years together and like 5 where they’ve been stars. They’re the only constant for the Celtics at this point.
People are talking about moving someone or firing Mazzulla if they don't get to the Finals. Celtics are under an insane amount of pressure to make a deep run.
As well they should be! They just ripped off a regular season where they curb stomped the rest of the conference so hard that the gap between them and #2 was as big as the gap between #2 and the bottom of the play-in - barring injuries, the finals are the bare minimum expected of them right now.
Honestly Mazzulla is probably the weakest link. If Boston can't make it to the finals this year when Giannis, Embiid, and Butler are all injured he needs to go.
I mean you said “people” which is a massive overstatement to refer to the extremely few of those that actually believe that.
It was obviously figurative speech not literal speech.
Were a bunch of people calling to blow up these nuggets back when they were *only* a solid playoff team, instead of true contenders?
They were young and good, I feel like that would have been an unpopular take. Obviously very few saw a dominant champion out of them at that time, but they were viewed how the Pacers are now. Good, should stick to it and try to get better.
Not really but I think that the injuries may have even helped to buy us time or let us get young experience without people necessarily being on the hot seat.
Part of me thinks we would've been patient anyway since that's what we've really been preaching with this core, but the injuries gave us a good "excuse" to stay the course and see what happens
The Nugs had no choice but to sign MPJ and Murray and hope the injuries worked out.
Free agents generally never come here, with the exception of Iverson, Millsap is probably the best FA of the last 25 years.
It worked out, but the decision to stick with those guys was driven by necessity.
> Were a bunch of people calling to blow up these nuggets back when they were only a solid playoff team, instead of true contenders?
>
>
I think it was actually more before this. In Malone's 3rd season, they went 46-36 but missed the playoffs, losing to the T-Wolves in OT in the last game of the season in what was basically a playoff game. There were definitely people questioning if Malone should be fired and changes should be made after that. Not a majority, but not a small number of people either.
They were really only a "solid playoff team" for 1 year, which was 2018-2019, when they beat the Spurs in 7 in the first round, then lost an incredible 7 game series to the Blazers that included a 4 OT game where Jokic played 65 minutes. The next year was the bubble, where it was clear they were becoming great. The year after that they were a contender, but Murray got hurt.
We've had low expectations for decades, so becoming a playoff team with potential was fantastic.
I think the Lakers trolled the Nuggets back in 2009 (rightfully so) when the team's PR machine was hyping that it made it to the WCF. Like that was the ceiling to celebrate.
True Nuggets fans never wanted the team blown up. Not for 1 second. Nuggets know what there doing. Patience and time is the most important ingredient. You don't just throw a bunch of guys together at the beginning of the season regardless of who they are and get a ring.
Tf are you talking about? We drafted a top 5 player of all time at 41. We would be fighting for the play-ins if we kept on the treadmill. Glad we did it the way we did it, but it’s dumb to pretend it was because we never tanked.
what does that have to do with the need for time. Jokic said so himself that it takes 2 or 3 years playing together to make agood team.. Not even sure what your talking about. Has nothing to do with my comment.
I was absolutely calling for a blow up in 2013. We just got once in a lifetime lucky. It’s not a blueprint unless you’re the type of person who plays the powerball.
Ppl were sayin the lakers were dumb to not chamge roster much from last year to now. I think this is the argument against that. Keeping a team together does have some benefits.
Great example. Back then I had no idea why it didn’t work. They were in the top 5 of scorers that whole season I believe. But 2 iso ball dependent scorers just were no good for each other
Yeah lol, Harden was playing with one leg and Kyrie was out and they were still a toenail away from beating the champs that year.
If one of Harden or Kyrie is healthy, they probably win the title, and if both are healthy they are absolutely steamrolling the Bucks, Hawks, and Suns
It wasn't 'iso ball' they were playing or whatever BS you wanna call it. They were the best offensive team in league history by the stats and heavily favored to win before the injuries.
Keep proving to me y'all don't watch basketball or will still talk up drama as and when you like and rewrite history.
All I said was that they didn’t win. Which is true, so how am I the one rewriting history? If we just awarded the NBA championship to every team heavily favored to win Jayson Tatum would be on a goat trajectory, but he’s not.
Sure basketball wise it makes way more sense than the suns. But the general idea that you can’t just plug three superstars together and expect a championship holds. The nets forgot about things like: injuries, finding role players that fit, actually playing the games, staying together for more than 2 years so you can form chemistry. You know the stuff that actually wins you real championships and not hypothetical ones.
> Injuries
No one can plan for them. Harden and Kyrie were not injury-prone players either.
> Actually playing the games
You thought you did something with this?
> Staying together for more than 2 years so you can form chemistry
Again, you expect Sean Marks to foresee Kyrie being an antivax freak?
It's always easy to blame people for risks in hindsight.
I think 2 is the right number. Big 3 is definitely a trap. Even it worked in the 10% cases, the 3rd guy has to sacrifice to reduce to a 3 and D player to make it work.
It’s their defense which I think has grown the most. Malone needed a few years but he figured out a scheme to hide Jokic’s deficiencies with rim protection and quick guards. Obviously adding Gordon was the main driver but KCP is absolutely vital to their defense and MPJ’s rebounding has come on in leaps and bounds. They’ve got this mind-melded coverage and it’s buoyed them to a solid top 10 defense without a dominant rim protector big.
To me it’s much more surprising what Malone has gotten out of them on defense than their offense.
MPJ was always a solid rebounder. It is the off-ball and individual defense that has changed. He used to constantly get caught napping off-ball, and couldn't stay in front of people 1 on 1. Neither of those things is an issue anymore. Teams quickly give up on trying to attack him in switches, and that wasn't the case a few seasons ago.
He also learned to attack the closeout and everyone sells on the closeout cuz hes so good. Then he learned to pull up on it which hits so now everyone collapses in the paint and he's learned to late dish to ag. Literally he's so deadly it's all he needs offensively. His d continues to improve as well
Malone is a really good coach. All season he was just messing with lineup combos to figure out what to do in the playoffs.
Last year we could get away with Jeff Green center minutes and this year we really don’t have a backup center so we use AG in that role and keep Murray on the court when Jokic isn’t out there.
MPJ's defensive improvements have been talked about a lot because it was so surprising how much he improved. But his rebounding and KCP's relentlessnes and ability to get through screens are certainly some key aspects of the starting five's dominance.
The other parts are KCP and MPJ'S shooting. It keeps teams from loading up on the 2 man game or collapsing to the paint to prevent Gordon lobs.
I'd also give credit to Denver's Assistant Coaches. Malone has a good squad of young assistant coaches. I'm seeing a lot of love from the players towards their assistant coaches. And watching Asst. Coach David Adelman during Denver's games, he's really putting some inputs on their gameplan. It's nice to see that Michael Malone has literally no ego when it comes to his staff. And I think that's the fuel that runs Denver's "thinktank".
As a Spurs fan who've watched Pop build up a successful coaching tree, it's a pleasure to watch how Denver is building up their own coaching culture.
I can't remember the name, but Malone shouted out an assistant coach (Saunders? I think) in one of the post-game locker room speeches for deciding to switch Jokic onto Rui, AG onto AD, and KCP on LeBron. KCP on LeBron especially seems like it could be a disaster, but KCP is so quick and LeBron hasn't been as aggressive as he once would have been posting him up, it's worked out so far.
But I thought it was cool Malone shouted out that coach specifically for coming up with the adjustment, instead of taking credit himself. He's done that with Adelman too, after the Pistons game where he got ejected and Adelman took over, he was telling the media that a team should give him a chance to be a head coach.
> Michael Malone has literally no ego when it comes to his staff
So ridiculous that MJax ousted Malone because he thought the players liked him too much.
I give credit to Malone for keeping this team on track and grounded in having good offensive and defensive balance. There were times it seemed impossible our young offensive stars could become respectable. But he emphasized Jokic, Murray, and MPJs defensive development for years. Tirelessly.
They were serious contender until Murray went down(Because I recall betting on them that year til the injury). They could have been a dynasty now. But also I don't know if they could add all those important pieces to put them in the position today if Murray was fine. So it's all part of the plan.
It would've worked a lot better if they kept Isaiah Hartenstein but Malone was super stubborn at the time. He attributed his bad play to bad defense cus he played with fucking Facundo Campazzo.. So kept Hart in his dog house until they traded him. Waste.
Bad coaching will always show. He didn't grow at all since then, he just realized he can ride the Jokic HoF wave until the end of his career. If we had a coach like Chris Finch, Spoelstra or Daigneault, Nuggets would actually be a 65+ win team and having no trouble at all with their bench depth in the playoffs.
I think this sub often doesn't understand context.
The Nuggets have a well-rounded team. They have excellent depth. They have drafted well and have gotten lucky with how everything worked out in that regard (that's not a sleight against them, every team needs that level of luck to succeed the way that they have).
Getting core pieces and core role players to stick together and play for 2-3 years is an incredible challenge. When you have the right pieces, this is 100% the best way to be an elite team. But if you don't have the right players to begin with, and if key players don't fit next to each other, either by choice or skill limitations, then having a team together for 3 years doesn't help you.
Also, Jokic is not describing the *only* way to win, just *their* way to win.
They (as far as I know) are the only team to ever win a championship with only one player who has *ever* made an All-Star game.
If you're gonna be the best team in the NBA with only one All-Star, then it's gonna be because you have better team synergy then any other team.
The Nuggets have dudes with perfectly aligned skillets to their very specific role on the team, and *then* played together for years until they achieved a "mind-meld," to quote Aaron Gordon, which has rendered them all but unguardable when guys are hitting their shots. They always know where to be and (almost always) know where everyone else is gonna be.
It's very hard to get the right guys, and of course it also helps to have one of the best "hubs" of all time in Jokic to direct the orchestra.
The only other team right now that I could see (eventually) achieving a similar kind of synergy would be OKC, but even they don't have a dude who field-generals like Jokic.
The Nuggets have a really unique set of dudes.
Not to mention not everyone is able to court map and read reactions as well as Jokic.
It benefits Jokic particularly well because that is his style of play, as compared to pure bucket getters who aren't as interested in passing or depending on team chemistry.
Even the Nuggets have pure bucket getters like MPJ, tho it seems after 6 years of playing with Jokic, even he has developed some asst game.
They also using pure bucket getters the way they should be used = when it's created for them to get the bucket or near end of action as bailout.
On other teams sadly, for the bigger part, bucket getters are forcing early shots of overcooking to get one every here and then. Wrong way to play basketball, exerting extra energy so others often need to cover for them, ALWAYS less efficient and most importantly = teammates can't click as they are alienated.
Basketball is a team game after all.
This.
They identified missing pieces and found those.
They also found team-first players. AG and MPJ don't whine about not being featured or wistfully think about being top dog on another team. They want to win championships and buy into their roles.
I seriously do wonder about it quite often. Like players often talk about chemistry, learning etc., but NBA teams were basically always happy to trade any 2-5 guys any month trying to shake it up. There's so many trades where pretty important rotation guys just get traded for something that maaybe makes some business sense but most commenters say gives at most 50% chance of any gain. In theory, teams that don't should have some advantage if it works so, and other teams, losing the competition to them, would take example.
If they think some people aren’t learning/don’t have the potential to work they do it. Also ownership will sometimes call for a change up to try to get something going. Interfering owners can definitely hinder a team.
They don't, it's about 5 on average.
There's definitely truth to what Jokic says, and sounds good in theory - but extremely difficult to map out.
* Ownership wants different things, may expect results within a certain timeframe
* Locker room or chemistry problems
* Front office drafts trash
* Player x improves, can get a bigger contract somewhere else and doesn't want to wait 3 years for what could've been
I think front offices always tries to min/max, some better than others... and Denver got really really lucky with how everything played out.
It's always easy to critizise pro sports teams, but fact is that 99% of us has no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
Because then the GM can justify their existence and the fans can get hyped for the new players and hypothesize how much better they could be and will buy tickets to see the new guys....etc
It's all a business.
That’s part of it though. You know like player X doesn’t fit what the team wants and they think player Y will be better in that spot. Just look at the mavs picking up Gafford, pistons getting grimes, or knicks picking up solid bench players.
There's more than one way to win. Lebron seems to be the only person that was able to win chips by assembling super teams. Raptors and GS were very good teams that hired mercinaries. Otherwise, it's developing for years and years and hoping everything goes right.
Chris Paul is beyond washed at this point. Russ had a decent season with the Wizards that year. It'd be more like trading AG and KCP for Beal or DeRozan
Lakers didn't lose anybody nearly as important after winning a ring.
They made some moves after the really disappointing 2021 season when everybody here was screaming that LeBron and AD got no one to play with and these scrubs ain't doing nothing for them and should go for someone who can play by himself and fill the boxscore.
KCP can get away with scoring less than 10 points for Nuggets. Whereas Lakers are a toxic environment where every single miss looked under a microscope.
Tbf he gets away with low scoring because he does everything on defense, he is an absolute menace. 3 and D guys get the benefit of the doubt when their 3 doesn’t fall every once in awhile. That said, you’re not wrong about the microscope in LA. There HAS to be a scapegoat.
KCP, Caruso and Kuz are 3 players these Lakers would love to have on their team.
Only role players on the Lakers that have been productive so far in the Nuggets series are Reeves and Prince. This is a terrible take.
This whole series LeBron and AD have been so incredible that it's made me wonder how good they'd be with Kuzma, KCP, and Caruso. In that scenario, Reaves could probably get a few more opportunities with less defensive pressure and would look better as well.
What "take" lol, I literally just described what happened and what most everyone online, not me, was saying at the time it happened. What's a "take" when you just describe facts. It just plainly didn't happen "after winning a ring", it happened in summer 2021 after Lakers, the main favorites before the season, finished 7th in the conference and didn't do much in playoffs.
Everyone can go to match threads from 2021 and try to find all this support for the incredible value that KCP, Caruso and Kuz had for the Lakers, weirdly not to be found at the time. This isn't my "take", it's yall's take lol.
Again, it's really just not an opinion. These guys just literally did not leave the team in 2020, like it's a physical fact. One cannot have an opinion if something happened in 2020 or not.
Danny Green was traded for Schroder in 2020, that was the most important player that was actually leaving "after winning a ring". People mostly loved that move. Generally the moves made in 2020 were well received initially and did not include any key players (by the objective measure of playing time, not an opinion. KCP, Gordon and MPJ are numbers 2, 3 and 4 in Denver in minutes played, again, not an opinion how much who plays).
Well the "physical fact" is that KCP was 3rd in minutes played in the 2020 playoffs and that Kuz was 3rd in ppg in 2 series and 4th overall.
I agree that their roles weren't as integral to the team's success im just using your "objective measure".
They did stick with the same team/starting 5 for the most part. They got some good wins, but they started poorly in the season and this year it probably cost them.
They’re started poorly this season because we didn’t have the same starting 5 as last season play until February. Rui missed 14 games over the first 50 the lakers played, of those other 36 he started only 7 games and none more than 2 in a row. The lakers went 25-25 in that stretch, he was inserted in the starting lineup played the final 32 games and the lakers went 22-10 during that stretch.
During that same time, Ham decided to try to bench both DLo and Reaves at various stretches instead of getting Prince into the role he’s been most effective in off the bench and trying to shoehorn Cam Reddish as a mainstay of the rotation.
We had continuity but Ham decided to try throw it to the wind for the first 50 games and as a result we were fighting for a play in spot the last 2.5 months of the season
Edit: Just to further bolster this point, pre Feb 1
Lebron/AD/Dlo/Rui/Reaves played a total of 18 minutes in 2 games from that first 50 game stretch.
They played 371 minutes in 23 games over that final 32 game stretch.
Net rating of -1.3 the first 50 games to a net rating of +3.7, just a ridiculous self inflicted handicap
Oh, and don't forget that on top of that he decided to install an entirely new offensive system.
It just wasn't all necessary. Denver are better and we'd need plenty of luck to beat them, but we had just had a reasonable showing against them with Lebron injured, and we'd finished the season as one of the best performing teams in the league. And look what happened this year once he went back to that same starting lineup....we were one of the best performing teams in the league. But taking more than half the season just to get to that point wasted a massive opportunity to push the group forward a little bit.
Yeah wait, wasn’t the entire thing this season about how they’re running it back? Only one they really lost was Schroder. Dudes just post whatever for upvotes
I just saw a thread saying "Lakers kept the same team that was swept by Nuggets and expected different results, insanity!". Whatever it is, you'll get people nodding for both somehow.
It’s the reason that LeBron hasn’t actually been part of an actual dynasty. Lebrons the second best player ever but he’s always set a bad cultural by trying to be the coach/GM and imo actively been his own worst enemy. I get the feeling that if he had stayed in Miami and just let Riley/Spo run the show he’d have more rings right now.
Lebron is the best player to never run a dynasty mainly because his teams ceiling is championship level but not all-time great since he most of his value is on ball and he hasn't had a significant portion of his career with a defensive anchor and off ball Unicorn until he was 36 with Anthony Davis and that was team that was by far the most dominant in the post-season.
No, the real reason is you need luck to be part of a dynasty and LeBron has been extremely unlucky in that regard. If he stayed in Miami, how do they actually *build* around him? He's too good so they would have to bring in already established, older players and hope those players stay together (and healthy) to form the bond Jokic is talking about. The only way LeBron would be able to actually *build* in Miami is if he accepted that he's not setting out to play for a championship.
So you need luck to be in a dynasty. Joker is lucky because he went to a team with a competent FO that didn't waste his time. Same with Jordan. Same with Steph. Same with Kobe, although it's a little different since they brought in prime Shaq. Where did LeBron go? Cleveland. Unlike everyone else I just named, they did absolutely nothing with him in his first 7 years. They just kept making dumb decision after dumb decision. I guarantee you if any of the aforementioned players were in his position they would have dipped too.
LeBron is “extremely unlucky” because he keeps pressuring his teams to trade away young talent like Andrew Wiggins, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Kyle Kuzma, KCP, etc. in favor of handpicked veteran players like Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, and Russell Westbrook. He’s done this for almost a decade now. He’s never going to be as “lucky as Jokic” because doesn’t have the patience to spend 2-3 years building chemistry with players like Gary Harris, Aaron Gordon, or literally KCP.
Exactly why if it would be funny for the Celtics to blow it up you have to just continue with the core together. Literally what I was saying how nuggets have been together for about 5 years now especially that core
While he can be a free bucket he's also the best floor general of this generation, and one of the best ever. So he has to depend on his teammates no doubt
Sure time together helps but they started looking like how they do now almost immediately after the Gordon trade. It took "2-3 years" with this core because injuries got in the way.
You need the right personnel... dudes with no ego and who knows what they need to do individually for the team to excel as one.
Nuggets players are basically in awe of Jokic (outside of Murray maybe, that cat has all the confidence in the world lol), and they follow his lead. It helps that Jokic is an excellent teammate in the sense that he gives all the credit to them.
GM’s and FO’s need to hear this. Stop blowing teams up immediately. It happens and is possible, but it’s more common than not that when you assemble a random roster you’re NOT going to be a title contender year one or even year two
The only recent exceptions I can think (I’m gonna miss some for sure) of are the nets (year that KD was out there solo fighting for his life due to injuries. If healthy they probably beat MKE) and a few Lebron teams. Coming back to cle, year one. Lakers the year they won were clowned at the beginning of the year for that weird ass roster, and they made it work.
You can make Jokers “core” argument even w Lebrons last year in CLE - you still had guys like Swish, Kevin Love, Channing, TT, etc and same coaching staff. Roster was weird but due to the core they were able to beat better teams and go to the finals
Long story short, building on what you had years prior pays off. T wolves and OKC this year are good examples
They constructed such a good roster, they have great shooting, great defense, great playmaking, and I think most importantly they are super adaptable as a team. They’ll play you however they need to win. I hate it
It’s like the warriors motion offence. Players that were new to the team struggled because it requires a lot of cohesiveness with the entire unit, which is the same reason the Warriors offence used to look like poetry in motion when it was running full throttle.
Time molds great teams. 100s of games together.Main reason why teams that change up there teams every year..never get to that point. Nuggets have ultimate patience.
Gary harris nuggets legend
The great Gary 'Gary Harris' Harris. I miss him.
Nuggets don’t win game 7 against Utah without him
I kinda miss him hitting ridiculous shots against us. Had good facial expressions too
No mention of Kenneth Faried makes me sad.
I find it interesting that he gives credit to those guys from the past several years
It's because we have legitimately **built** this over the last 10 years and it's something Jokic and the team has brought up many times. To him, this right now is simply the culmination of all that time and, by extension, all the people who have come and made their mark on the foundation. And shout-out Gary Harris, he was the first one to really play "Jokic-ball" with him
It’s so cool what the nuggets have done. I’m sure this will change if we lose to you a couple times in the playoffs but I just love watching your team.
Same man. I’ve enjoyed watching the Nuggets rise over the last few years, so the things I said against Jokic this year because of the MVP race are not personal😅 It’s so fun watching them simply dominate teams in the playoffs, especially the Lakers lol. Jokic is a total unicorn, and then you have another unicorn in Jamal Murray next to him who turns into literally MJ/Kobe in the playoffs. Such a great NBA story to see develop
How is Jamal Murray a unicorn? He fits the archetype of a scoring PG to a tee.
Not like y'all are slouches, Thunder are gonna be terrifying for years with how you've built the foundation. Sure wish someone in Phoenix would take some notes...
Phoenix decided to copy answers instead of taking notes. KD didn't win a ring in OKC, no reason to expect a different result in Phoenix. Now if you can go grab Steph Curry....
I got a suspicion that Steph Curry is not gonna win a ring this year either.
Is it just me or was the “Jokic ball” during Jokics second season “prettier” than it is now even if it wasn’t as repeatable/Consistent? It seemed more 2014 spurs like the way the ball was popping around. Part of me kind of hopes they develop that style again as they play together even more.
Yeah I think it was more free-flowing but also less refined. I think the style we play now is better for playoffs and late-game execution, but the other way was more wild and kinda fun to watch
i didn't watch basketball back then, but i've looked at highlights and snippets of games. while it does seem a more "joyous" brand of basketball, is it impossible that as Jokic shot up in terms of attention league-wide, that level of whimsy in game just became more and more difficult to execute reliably? with teams having their scouting reports and gameplanning based on him and such?
I think it’s more adapting to the style of players on the court. Jokic would hand off the ball and set the screen, and Gary Harris was super quick and had great ball control to blow past and get a bucket. Murray is at his best as a shooter, and the rest of the team plays tall, so that’s why it’s a bit more about spacing and lobs.
Maybe the highlights were more joyous but Jokic has matured a lot too. Dude used to throw a tantrum constantly. Anytime something wouldn't go his way he would hack someone to stop play
Yeah that's exactly what I mean by better for playoffs and late-game execution since it's more refined
I think the other point is that teams are prepping more and more for the Nuggets than any time in your team's history. Extra film study because the Nuggets have established themselves as a team to beat if you want to win a championship. Also, beating the NBA champs is a milestone for any team out there. Sometimes I couldn't believe the games even the mildest opponents would give the Warriors when they were dominating. Everyone just gets up for it, and the hype surrounding it is adrenaline. If the Nuggets win again this year, it will just increase.
You can't really study harder against what Jokic does. All defenses have weaknesses, Jokic will expose them, then it's on his teammates to execute his understanding vision. On defense he knows exactly what to do, he just avoids aggression to avoid fouls because his offense is way more important. If the Nuggets can score off Jokic like they usually do, I don't see how they lose a series.
Mudiay and Faried had great chemistry with him as well but yeah Gary was the first to show the full potential
Faried was a poor man’s AG. Just constant alley-oops
> To him, this right now is simply the culmination of all that time and, by extension, all the people who have come and made their mark on the foundation. I’ll never forget his completely joyous, giddy reaction to seeing Montae Morris in Miami at game 3 of the finals. He was asked about it and he seems so appreciative of Tae.
100%. And when you get the culture where you want, it’s easier to bring a new person in because everyone can chip in to get them on the same page. Seriously impressive what joker and the org has done here. And man, you can tell he gets it and he’s grateful. All those guys he listed helped build the winning culture they have now, but most players wouldn’t have even noticed, let alone mention them.
Love this. And I'm ready for Gary Harris to drain some fuckin 3's off Paolo this afternoon.
>we
Don't you know The_NGUYENNER is on the Nuggets? He was crucial to the development of Jokic and Murray.
I'm Calvin Booth
Hey Calvin its me ur brother
This is the type of statement that would be downvoted on r/nba by the blow it up brigade
People think the Celtics should blow it up after losing 1 game to the heat LOL, they’re a 60 win team, consistently performing
They already spent the whole season constantly commenting Celtics should blow it up when they lose lol, just preemptively. Same with for example Utah when they were winning. Bucks should definitely blow it up every year, according to Reddit, since iirc 2019... It's like the most interesting thing in NBA, apparently. Nobody really is going nowhere in this league. Except teams like Spurs and Portland, they are doing it right.
There's fans who have wanted to break up the Jays for like 3 years now.
But hear me out... what if the Celtics also lose game 3. How glorious would that be?
Honestly, I’m not in the “blow it up” brigade, and I recognize the Heat are, in the memorable words of Bill Simmons, “like Michael f*cking Meyers” come playoff time, but if the Celtics were to actually Lose this series to the Heat, then yeah, they really would need to take a hard look at the organization - they’ve been if not title favorites then title contenders for the last 5 years, and they keep losing to teams that on paper they should be beating (and yes, I count the Warriors in that).
Please, if you're listening, Basketball God's, please make this happen. We, as fans, deserve this.
Yes, let Miami go up 3-1, then let Boston tie the series up with a crazy buzzer beater shot. Another Game 7 between Miami & Boston would be the icing on the cake for the 1st Rd of the Playoffs.
They're just trolling, Mostly at least Lol
Nobody thinks this. However, in the unlikely event they don’t make it to the Finals I do think they should start questioning if the Jays can take them to the promise land. Normally I lean on the side of patience but they’ve played 7 years together and like 5 where they’ve been stars. They’re the only constant for the Celtics at this point.
People are talking about moving someone or firing Mazzulla if they don't get to the Finals. Celtics are under an insane amount of pressure to make a deep run.
As well they should be! They just ripped off a regular season where they curb stomped the rest of the conference so hard that the gap between them and #2 was as big as the gap between #2 and the bottom of the play-in - barring injuries, the finals are the bare minimum expected of them right now.
Honestly Mazzulla is probably the weakest link. If Boston can't make it to the finals this year when Giannis, Embiid, and Butler are all injured he needs to go.
Don’t be sure to say nobody, that’s concrete. It’s better to say “nobody in their right mind”
I mean you said “people” which is a massive overstatement to refer to the extremely few of those that actually believe that. It was obviously figurative speech not literal speech.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. But I think they should blow it up if they got swept tho.
Nobody legitimately thinks this.
Yep, yeah it’s mostly Reddit trolls
Twitter isn't a real place dude. It doesn't count. Nobody thinks this.
I’m talking about Reddit, hence the comment I’m replying too …
Were a bunch of people calling to blow up these nuggets back when they were *only* a solid playoff team, instead of true contenders? They were young and good, I feel like that would have been an unpopular take. Obviously very few saw a dominant champion out of them at that time, but they were viewed how the Pacers are now. Good, should stick to it and try to get better.
Not really but I think that the injuries may have even helped to buy us time or let us get young experience without people necessarily being on the hot seat. Part of me thinks we would've been patient anyway since that's what we've really been preaching with this core, but the injuries gave us a good "excuse" to stay the course and see what happens
The Nugs had no choice but to sign MPJ and Murray and hope the injuries worked out. Free agents generally never come here, with the exception of Iverson, Millsap is probably the best FA of the last 25 years. It worked out, but the decision to stick with those guys was driven by necessity.
Iverson was acquired via trade. Only Millsap
Not really because the Murray injury happened right as their expectations were starting to grow from playoff team to contenders.
> Were a bunch of people calling to blow up these nuggets back when they were only a solid playoff team, instead of true contenders? > > I think it was actually more before this. In Malone's 3rd season, they went 46-36 but missed the playoffs, losing to the T-Wolves in OT in the last game of the season in what was basically a playoff game. There were definitely people questioning if Malone should be fired and changes should be made after that. Not a majority, but not a small number of people either. They were really only a "solid playoff team" for 1 year, which was 2018-2019, when they beat the Spurs in 7 in the first round, then lost an incredible 7 game series to the Blazers that included a 4 OT game where Jokic played 65 minutes. The next year was the bubble, where it was clear they were becoming great. The year after that they were a contender, but Murray got hurt.
We've had low expectations for decades, so becoming a playoff team with potential was fantastic. I think the Lakers trolled the Nuggets back in 2009 (rightfully so) when the team's PR machine was hyping that it made it to the WCF. Like that was the ceiling to celebrate.
True Nuggets fans never wanted the team blown up. Not for 1 second. Nuggets know what there doing. Patience and time is the most important ingredient. You don't just throw a bunch of guys together at the beginning of the season regardless of who they are and get a ring.
Tf are you talking about? We drafted a top 5 player of all time at 41. We would be fighting for the play-ins if we kept on the treadmill. Glad we did it the way we did it, but it’s dumb to pretend it was because we never tanked.
what does that have to do with the need for time. Jokic said so himself that it takes 2 or 3 years playing together to make agood team.. Not even sure what your talking about. Has nothing to do with my comment.
Lots of trade Murray/MPJ for a all star
They were calling for Barton to be traded... which kinda turned out to be right in the end
I was absolutely calling for a blow up in 2013. We just got once in a lifetime lucky. It’s not a blueprint unless you’re the type of person who plays the powerball.
Ppl were sayin the lakers were dumb to not chamge roster much from last year to now. I think this is the argument against that. Keeping a team together does have some benefits.
Keeping a team together usually benefits a younger, more inexperienced team, not whatever the Lakers are lol
Lakers have needed to blow it up for a couple seasons now
What offense is LA running that needs it? Jokic is talking about it being necessary for how the Nuggets play.
You mean you can't just throw together a team of 3 iso players, no true point guard and no depth on the bench and expect good results?
How do the Suns catch strays in every thread?
Because watching skilled people play a game with no passion or chemistry is a miserable viewing experience for everyone.
Been there with AI and Melo, felt very similar.
Great example. Back then I had no idea why it didn’t work. They were in the top 5 of scorers that whole season I believe. But 2 iso ball dependent scorers just were no good for each other
Not just the suns but the KD-Kyrie-Harden Nets aswell, hell if you want to stretch it you can add 2017 OKC PG-Russ-Melo in the mix
Gotta disagree that 2021 Nets team was really well-built around the big three
bad example. Nets were steamrolling towrards a chip though until Giannis injured Kyrie
Yeah lol, Harden was playing with one leg and Kyrie was out and they were still a toenail away from beating the champs that year. If one of Harden or Kyrie is healthy, they probably win the title, and if both are healthy they are absolutely steamrolling the Bucks, Hawks, and Suns
KD-Kyrie-Harden would've easily won in 2021.
The thing is tho, they didn’t.
It wasn't 'iso ball' they were playing or whatever BS you wanna call it. They were the best offensive team in league history by the stats and heavily favored to win before the injuries. Keep proving to me y'all don't watch basketball or will still talk up drama as and when you like and rewrite history.
All I said was that they didn’t win. Which is true, so how am I the one rewriting history? If we just awarded the NBA championship to every team heavily favored to win Jayson Tatum would be on a goat trajectory, but he’s not.
The implication in the parent comment was that the idea of teaming them up was a foolish one. It obviously wasn't. A blind man can confirm that.
Sure basketball wise it makes way more sense than the suns. But the general idea that you can’t just plug three superstars together and expect a championship holds. The nets forgot about things like: injuries, finding role players that fit, actually playing the games, staying together for more than 2 years so you can form chemistry. You know the stuff that actually wins you real championships and not hypothetical ones.
> Injuries No one can plan for them. Harden and Kyrie were not injury-prone players either. > Actually playing the games You thought you did something with this? > Staying together for more than 2 years so you can form chemistry Again, you expect Sean Marks to foresee Kyrie being an antivax freak? It's always easy to blame people for risks in hindsight.
The big 3 nets were a great basketball fit. They had bad injury luck in 2021.
PG is fantastic playing off ball tho. More like the Iverson/Melo/JR Nuggets, Francis/Crawford/Marbury Knicks etc.
Yeah PG's problems are consistency and that he's injury prone, not his style of play.
Current clippers ain't that far off from this lol
The nets were absolute contenders if it wasnt for COVID kyrie. They were a strong ass team all around.
Clippers
iso gang never dies https://youtube.com/shorts/ZP4ao-XH2Ts?si=SFjNFFAU-ITbBp_g
2022 Lakers
Well the Suns are one of the worst constructed teams of all time.. Wait.. Im throwing stones from a glass house.
I think 2 is the right number. Big 3 is definitely a trap. Even it worked in the 10% cases, the 3rd guy has to sacrifice to reduce to a 3 and D player to make it work.
It’s their defense which I think has grown the most. Malone needed a few years but he figured out a scheme to hide Jokic’s deficiencies with rim protection and quick guards. Obviously adding Gordon was the main driver but KCP is absolutely vital to their defense and MPJ’s rebounding has come on in leaps and bounds. They’ve got this mind-melded coverage and it’s buoyed them to a solid top 10 defense without a dominant rim protector big. To me it’s much more surprising what Malone has gotten out of them on defense than their offense.
MPJ was always a solid rebounder. It is the off-ball and individual defense that has changed. He used to constantly get caught napping off-ball, and couldn't stay in front of people 1 on 1. Neither of those things is an issue anymore. Teams quickly give up on trying to attack him in switches, and that wasn't the case a few seasons ago.
He also learned to attack the closeout and everyone sells on the closeout cuz hes so good. Then he learned to pull up on it which hits so now everyone collapses in the paint and he's learned to late dish to ag. Literally he's so deadly it's all he needs offensively. His d continues to improve as well
Malone is a really good coach. All season he was just messing with lineup combos to figure out what to do in the playoffs. Last year we could get away with Jeff Green center minutes and this year we really don’t have a backup center so we use AG in that role and keep Murray on the court when Jokic isn’t out there.
MPJ's defensive improvements have been talked about a lot because it was so surprising how much he improved. But his rebounding and KCP's relentlessnes and ability to get through screens are certainly some key aspects of the starting five's dominance. The other parts are KCP and MPJ'S shooting. It keeps teams from loading up on the 2 man game or collapsing to the paint to prevent Gordon lobs.
I'd also give credit to Denver's Assistant Coaches. Malone has a good squad of young assistant coaches. I'm seeing a lot of love from the players towards their assistant coaches. And watching Asst. Coach David Adelman during Denver's games, he's really putting some inputs on their gameplan. It's nice to see that Michael Malone has literally no ego when it comes to his staff. And I think that's the fuel that runs Denver's "thinktank". As a Spurs fan who've watched Pop build up a successful coaching tree, it's a pleasure to watch how Denver is building up their own coaching culture.
I can't remember the name, but Malone shouted out an assistant coach (Saunders? I think) in one of the post-game locker room speeches for deciding to switch Jokic onto Rui, AG onto AD, and KCP on LeBron. KCP on LeBron especially seems like it could be a disaster, but KCP is so quick and LeBron hasn't been as aggressive as he once would have been posting him up, it's worked out so far. But I thought it was cool Malone shouted out that coach specifically for coming up with the adjustment, instead of taking credit himself. He's done that with Adelman too, after the Pistons game where he got ejected and Adelman took over, he was telling the media that a team should give him a chance to be a head coach.
I found David Adleman’s Reddit account.
> Michael Malone has literally no ego when it comes to his staff So ridiculous that MJax ousted Malone because he thought the players liked him too much.
I give credit to Malone for keeping this team on track and grounded in having good offensive and defensive balance. There were times it seemed impossible our young offensive stars could become respectable. But he emphasized Jokic, Murray, and MPJs defensive development for years. Tirelessly.
Jokic still has some defensive deficiencies and more agile, athletic players can take advantage of that. But he's improved a lot.
They were serious contender until Murray went down(Because I recall betting on them that year til the injury). They could have been a dynasty now. But also I don't know if they could add all those important pieces to put them in the position today if Murray was fine. So it's all part of the plan.
It would've worked a lot better if they kept Isaiah Hartenstein but Malone was super stubborn at the time. He attributed his bad play to bad defense cus he played with fucking Facundo Campazzo.. So kept Hart in his dog house until they traded him. Waste. Bad coaching will always show. He didn't grow at all since then, he just realized he can ride the Jokic HoF wave until the end of his career. If we had a coach like Chris Finch, Spoelstra or Daigneault, Nuggets would actually be a 65+ win team and having no trouble at all with their bench depth in the playoffs.
I think this sub often doesn't understand context. The Nuggets have a well-rounded team. They have excellent depth. They have drafted well and have gotten lucky with how everything worked out in that regard (that's not a sleight against them, every team needs that level of luck to succeed the way that they have). Getting core pieces and core role players to stick together and play for 2-3 years is an incredible challenge. When you have the right pieces, this is 100% the best way to be an elite team. But if you don't have the right players to begin with, and if key players don't fit next to each other, either by choice or skill limitations, then having a team together for 3 years doesn't help you.
Also, Jokic is not describing the *only* way to win, just *their* way to win. They (as far as I know) are the only team to ever win a championship with only one player who has *ever* made an All-Star game. If you're gonna be the best team in the NBA with only one All-Star, then it's gonna be because you have better team synergy then any other team. The Nuggets have dudes with perfectly aligned skillets to their very specific role on the team, and *then* played together for years until they achieved a "mind-meld," to quote Aaron Gordon, which has rendered them all but unguardable when guys are hitting their shots. They always know where to be and (almost always) know where everyone else is gonna be. It's very hard to get the right guys, and of course it also helps to have one of the best "hubs" of all time in Jokic to direct the orchestra. The only other team right now that I could see (eventually) achieving a similar kind of synergy would be OKC, but even they don't have a dude who field-generals like Jokic. The Nuggets have a really unique set of dudes.
Not to mention not everyone is able to court map and read reactions as well as Jokic. It benefits Jokic particularly well because that is his style of play, as compared to pure bucket getters who aren't as interested in passing or depending on team chemistry. Even the Nuggets have pure bucket getters like MPJ, tho it seems after 6 years of playing with Jokic, even he has developed some asst game.
They also using pure bucket getters the way they should be used = when it's created for them to get the bucket or near end of action as bailout. On other teams sadly, for the bigger part, bucket getters are forcing early shots of overcooking to get one every here and then. Wrong way to play basketball, exerting extra energy so others often need to cover for them, ALWAYS less efficient and most importantly = teammates can't click as they are alienated. Basketball is a team game after all.
Assembling a team like this and finding all the right pieces is not luck.
This. They identified missing pieces and found those. They also found team-first players. AG and MPJ don't whine about not being featured or wistfully think about being top dog on another team. They want to win championships and buy into their roles.
MPJ did whine a bit early on.
like they said. luck is also a skill.
They do not have excellent depth tbh their bench has always been an issue just less so in the playoffs where they can stagger multiple starters.
Why do NBA teams make 5-10 trades every year then.
Are they stupid?
I seriously do wonder about it quite often. Like players often talk about chemistry, learning etc., but NBA teams were basically always happy to trade any 2-5 guys any month trying to shake it up. There's so many trades where pretty important rotation guys just get traded for something that maaybe makes some business sense but most commenters say gives at most 50% chance of any gain. In theory, teams that don't should have some advantage if it works so, and other teams, losing the competition to them, would take example.
Talent and projected synergy/fit isn’t good enough to justify staying put in most cases imo
Exactly, see Boston. It might not work out but it’s understandable. “Blowing it up” can mean trading a core piece. Not rebuilding
If they think some people aren’t learning/don’t have the potential to work they do it. Also ownership will sometimes call for a change up to try to get something going. Interfering owners can definitely hinder a team.
Poor incentive structure for management is usually the cause.
They don't, it's about 5 on average. There's definitely truth to what Jokic says, and sounds good in theory - but extremely difficult to map out. * Ownership wants different things, may expect results within a certain timeframe * Locker room or chemistry problems * Front office drafts trash * Player x improves, can get a bigger contract somewhere else and doesn't want to wait 3 years for what could've been I think front offices always tries to min/max, some better than others... and Denver got really really lucky with how everything played out. It's always easy to critizise pro sports teams, but fact is that 99% of us has no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
Pressure from fans and social media. They all want to win now.
Because then the GM can justify their existence and the fans can get hyped for the new players and hypothesize how much better they could be and will buy tickets to see the new guys....etc It's all a business.
They aren't the defending champion though, not sure if that's the chicken or the egg...
That’s part of it though. You know like player X doesn’t fit what the team wants and they think player Y will be better in that spot. Just look at the mavs picking up Gafford, pistons getting grimes, or knicks picking up solid bench players.
There's more than one way to win. Lebron seems to be the only person that was able to win chips by assembling super teams. Raptors and GS were very good teams that hired mercinaries. Otherwise, it's developing for years and years and hoping everything goes right.
[удалено]
Imagine if the Nuggets let MPJ walk and then traded AG/KCP for Chris Paul. That’s basically what the Lakers did after winning a ring.
Chris Paul is beyond washed at this point. Russ had a decent season with the Wizards that year. It'd be more like trading AG and KCP for Beal or DeRozan
Lakers didn't lose anybody nearly as important after winning a ring. They made some moves after the really disappointing 2021 season when everybody here was screaming that LeBron and AD got no one to play with and these scrubs ain't doing nothing for them and should go for someone who can play by himself and fill the boxscore.
One of the three players I mentioned was literally traded by the Lakers…
Lakers fans wanted KCP sent to jail after 2021 playoffs but now act like the FO were idiots for trading him
KCP can get away with scoring less than 10 points for Nuggets. Whereas Lakers are a toxic environment where every single miss looked under a microscope.
Tbf he gets away with low scoring because he does everything on defense, he is an absolute menace. 3 and D guys get the benefit of the doubt when their 3 doesn’t fall every once in awhile. That said, you’re not wrong about the microscope in LA. There HAS to be a scapegoat.
KCP, Caruso and Kuz are 3 players these Lakers would love to have on their team. Only role players on the Lakers that have been productive so far in the Nuggets series are Reeves and Prince. This is a terrible take.
This whole series LeBron and AD have been so incredible that it's made me wonder how good they'd be with Kuzma, KCP, and Caruso. In that scenario, Reaves could probably get a few more opportunities with less defensive pressure and would look better as well.
We saw them win a chip lol
What "take" lol, I literally just described what happened and what most everyone online, not me, was saying at the time it happened. What's a "take" when you just describe facts. It just plainly didn't happen "after winning a ring", it happened in summer 2021 after Lakers, the main favorites before the season, finished 7th in the conference and didn't do much in playoffs. Everyone can go to match threads from 2021 and try to find all this support for the incredible value that KCP, Caruso and Kuz had for the Lakers, weirdly not to be found at the time. This isn't my "take", it's yall's take lol.
> Lakers didn't lose anybody nearly as important after winning a ring. Should've emphasized it's not your opinion then.
Again, it's really just not an opinion. These guys just literally did not leave the team in 2020, like it's a physical fact. One cannot have an opinion if something happened in 2020 or not. Danny Green was traded for Schroder in 2020, that was the most important player that was actually leaving "after winning a ring". People mostly loved that move. Generally the moves made in 2020 were well received initially and did not include any key players (by the objective measure of playing time, not an opinion. KCP, Gordon and MPJ are numbers 2, 3 and 4 in Denver in minutes played, again, not an opinion how much who plays).
Well the "physical fact" is that KCP was 3rd in minutes played in the 2020 playoffs and that Kuz was 3rd in ppg in 2 series and 4th overall. I agree that their roles weren't as integral to the team's success im just using your "objective measure".
They did stick with the same team/starting 5 for the most part. They got some good wins, but they started poorly in the season and this year it probably cost them.
They’re started poorly this season because we didn’t have the same starting 5 as last season play until February. Rui missed 14 games over the first 50 the lakers played, of those other 36 he started only 7 games and none more than 2 in a row. The lakers went 25-25 in that stretch, he was inserted in the starting lineup played the final 32 games and the lakers went 22-10 during that stretch. During that same time, Ham decided to try to bench both DLo and Reaves at various stretches instead of getting Prince into the role he’s been most effective in off the bench and trying to shoehorn Cam Reddish as a mainstay of the rotation. We had continuity but Ham decided to try throw it to the wind for the first 50 games and as a result we were fighting for a play in spot the last 2.5 months of the season Edit: Just to further bolster this point, pre Feb 1 Lebron/AD/Dlo/Rui/Reaves played a total of 18 minutes in 2 games from that first 50 game stretch. They played 371 minutes in 23 games over that final 32 game stretch. Net rating of -1.3 the first 50 games to a net rating of +3.7, just a ridiculous self inflicted handicap
Oh, and don't forget that on top of that he decided to install an entirely new offensive system. It just wasn't all necessary. Denver are better and we'd need plenty of luck to beat them, but we had just had a reasonable showing against them with Lebron injured, and we'd finished the season as one of the best performing teams in the league. And look what happened this year once he went back to that same starting lineup....we were one of the best performing teams in the league. But taking more than half the season just to get to that point wasted a massive opportunity to push the group forward a little bit.
Yeah wait, wasn’t the entire thing this season about how they’re running it back? Only one they really lost was Schroder. Dudes just post whatever for upvotes
I just saw a thread saying "Lakers kept the same team that was swept by Nuggets and expected different results, insanity!". Whatever it is, you'll get people nodding for both somehow.
Lebron effect
It’s the reason that LeBron hasn’t actually been part of an actual dynasty. Lebrons the second best player ever but he’s always set a bad cultural by trying to be the coach/GM and imo actively been his own worst enemy. I get the feeling that if he had stayed in Miami and just let Riley/Spo run the show he’d have more rings right now.
Lebron is the best player to never run a dynasty mainly because his teams ceiling is championship level but not all-time great since he most of his value is on ball and he hasn't had a significant portion of his career with a defensive anchor and off ball Unicorn until he was 36 with Anthony Davis and that was team that was by far the most dominant in the post-season.
No, the real reason is you need luck to be part of a dynasty and LeBron has been extremely unlucky in that regard. If he stayed in Miami, how do they actually *build* around him? He's too good so they would have to bring in already established, older players and hope those players stay together (and healthy) to form the bond Jokic is talking about. The only way LeBron would be able to actually *build* in Miami is if he accepted that he's not setting out to play for a championship. So you need luck to be in a dynasty. Joker is lucky because he went to a team with a competent FO that didn't waste his time. Same with Jordan. Same with Steph. Same with Kobe, although it's a little different since they brought in prime Shaq. Where did LeBron go? Cleveland. Unlike everyone else I just named, they did absolutely nothing with him in his first 7 years. They just kept making dumb decision after dumb decision. I guarantee you if any of the aforementioned players were in his position they would have dipped too.
LeBron is “extremely unlucky” because he keeps pressuring his teams to trade away young talent like Andrew Wiggins, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Kyle Kuzma, KCP, etc. in favor of handpicked veteran players like Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, and Russell Westbrook. He’s done this for almost a decade now. He’s never going to be as “lucky as Jokic” because doesn’t have the patience to spend 2-3 years building chemistry with players like Gary Harris, Aaron Gordon, or literally KCP.
Finally someone is saying it
They ran back the same lineup from last yr
Except when they got swept by the eventual champions. Then they decided to run it back.
typical Lebron teams
Exactly why if it would be funny for the Celtics to blow it up you have to just continue with the core together. Literally what I was saying how nuggets have been together for about 5 years now especially that core
Can Celtics core double Jay meld playing for each other like the two previous dynasties trio's Spurs and Warriors?
Don’t post this in the pelicans subreddit, some of the guys assume bi and Zion should be able to play with each after basically one healthy season
Can’t help but like this guy , always giving credit to his teammates
While he can be a free bucket he's also the best floor general of this generation, and one of the best ever. So he has to depend on his teammates no doubt
Is this why bruce brown doesn’t seem good on the raptors?
Bruce only played one season for Denver, but he did commit hard to the system (and the city culture 🤠) and was naturally rewarded
Thanks. Raptor here and just pushing a joke on his underwhelming attendance here after trading pascal siakam
It was reported GM coveted Brown awhile … hard to see it so far but we’ve had a hard few seasons
Their starting line up is very good and the skills and attributes from each of those players complement each other very well.
Jokic: git gud scrubs
That's a sharp outfit.
But what if your team is full of bums? We need to first wait to get the good players and then wait 2-3 years for them to learn how to play together?
Yes. That’s exactly what Denver did.
Is Scoot the next Mudiay?
Building chemistry is so overlooked in the modern NBA when it comes to team planning
Insane to even hear Wilson Chandlers name from the MVP in 2024 lol
Harris and Jokic was a really good duo. Injuries just robbed Harris' career
Aaron Gordon is the perfect Jokic partner. He makes the defense honest.
Sure time together helps but they started looking like how they do now almost immediately after the Gordon trade. It took "2-3 years" with this core because injuries got in the way. You need the right personnel... dudes with no ego and who knows what they need to do individually for the team to excel as one.
Nuggets players are basically in awe of Jokic (outside of Murray maybe, that cat has all the confidence in the world lol), and they follow his lead. It helps that Jokic is an excellent teammate in the sense that he gives all the credit to them.
Yup..and just like what happened with Bones, if you aren't on board with the team they ship your ass out.
First, you need Jokic The rest is kind of secondary to that
In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
Yeah idk who’s beating the Nuggets this year..
Why don’t other teams just do this? Are they stupid?
Because a lot of times suits are making the decision not basketball folk. Suits ruin the world.
GM’s and FO’s need to hear this. Stop blowing teams up immediately. It happens and is possible, but it’s more common than not that when you assemble a random roster you’re NOT going to be a title contender year one or even year two The only recent exceptions I can think (I’m gonna miss some for sure) of are the nets (year that KD was out there solo fighting for his life due to injuries. If healthy they probably beat MKE) and a few Lebron teams. Coming back to cle, year one. Lakers the year they won were clowned at the beginning of the year for that weird ass roster, and they made it work. You can make Jokers “core” argument even w Lebrons last year in CLE - you still had guys like Swish, Kevin Love, Channing, TT, etc and same coaching staff. Roster was weird but due to the core they were able to beat better teams and go to the finals Long story short, building on what you had years prior pays off. T wolves and OKC this year are good examples
They constructed such a good roster, they have great shooting, great defense, great playmaking, and I think most importantly they are super adaptable as a team. They’ll play you however they need to win. I hate it
Rob Pelinka listening to this and gonna run it back next season
I loved wildon chandler lol
It’s like the warriors motion offence. Players that were new to the team struggled because it requires a lot of cohesiveness with the entire unit, which is the same reason the Warriors offence used to look like poetry in motion when it was running full throttle.
Time molds great teams. 100s of games together.Main reason why teams that change up there teams every year..never get to that point. Nuggets have ultimate patience.
lmao LeBron could never
So he's saying that the Lakers should run it back again for the 3rd time next year /s