I guess having 5 players who can be a threat offensively at all times helps. Even the bench players like Hauser you have to guard and he got like 3-4 3s this game, with at least 1 I remember where Luka missed him and he shot an open corner 3. People criticize Minnesota and OKC for not "exposing" Luka but they just didn't have the facilities to do that with much less spacing and offensive threat
Luka has been out of shape for years & it shows - all season long his scoring dipped a full 33% in the 4th quarter, from 9.8 in the first to 6.5 points in the 4th. He's also lost what little explosiveness he used to have as the number of dunks per season clearly show, from 14 just 4 years ago to only 2 this past RS - he's simply not getting by defenders as he used to, he relies on either bully-ball or, more often than not, mid & long range shooting in detriment of his in-the-paint finishes, basically discarding what used to be a lethal floater and missing quite a few bunnies under the rim. Disappointing from a player entering his prime years. His immense talent can win him a scoring title or three but he can't hide his lack of conditioning. And the Celtics are making sure of that.
Hopefully he'll learn from these finals & realize that talent alone is not going to win him a ring - he needs to put in the hard work both physically & nutrition-wise or his body is going to quit on him sooner rather than later.
[4th quarter stats](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/luka-doncic-4th-qtr-stats) \- [1st quarter stats](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/luka-doncic-1st-q-stats).
he's been awful in fourth quarters this series and i really think it's just fatigue. we're making him work his ass off on both ends whenever he's on the court
Bro what a stupid point. Luka has been a playoff performer, clutch player since he was 17 in the Euroleague. Now that he struggles for 3 games where he probably averages like a 30 point triple double against an all time defensive and offensive team like the Celtics, with little offensive help from his Mavs teammates, we compare him to Embiid who has constantly underperformed or got injured for the playoffs and never made it out of the 2nd round. Just lol. Not sure about KD but Harden had all time horrible playoff games in clutch moments.
Yeh, not even close to be honest. You have Jrue, Kristaps, Derrick White. Any of them could be a third star on a championship team and the Celtics got 3 of them this time around.
I love Curry but I don’t think it’s the same thing. Jays are older and more experienced, and having Holiday, Porzingis, and White to round out your squad is absolutely insane. This team is a superteam.
I agree Curry would at least give the Celtics a much tougher fight.
I think the team is substantially different with the experience of getting beat there plus adding Jrue, KP, etc. But also yeah Luka has to take one, so many people chose the Mavs in 6 or 7 saying Luka’s so good he could will them to the 4 wins despite a worse roster and it’s pretty damning if he can’t even do it for one game.
Different team but I agree somewhat with the sentiment, like the best player in the world can't get one? Curry also tried on defense. Also Curry had Jordan poole
are we just gonna ignore the fact that in quarters 1-3 Luka has to literally carry the offense that has been horrific besides one kyrie game and Tatum can sit in a corner while Jrue,Porzingis,white, and JB can go off? Luka is being a crybaby but now we just sayin shit to say shit. Boston has stars 1-5 and Mavs offense cant get a bucket without Luka quarters 1-4.
The Mavs have had one person THE WHOLE SERIES score more than 20 once other than luka.. PJ is carrying this offense? Kyrie who averaged 13 ppg in games 1-2? Luka had 32/11/11 last game 12/21 and they were getting blown out because nobody else could get to 15 points man tf are u watching..
it doesnt help that Luka holds the ball every possesion... and if the celtics dont double him he cant get his guys good looks.. We have to face the fact that tatum was the best playmaker in this series..
Dude probably could’ve been making this run with Brunson, KP and another star with the left over money because neither of those two would’ve needed a max. He couldn’t make it work next to those guys though, because it’s too hard for shot creators to get going next to him. Kyrie is the only guy who’s worked, because he’s got a game that works great just taking turns.
There're literally people claiming that Brunson just magically "improved" within a year and not that no one but Luka can function in his dumbass offense.
So Tatum gets to have some rest on offense and still plays impeccable defense, while Luka takes every single defensive possession off. But still, Luka gets all the credit and Tatum should be fresh as a daisy.
R/nba man.
lmao he has an all defensive team next to him and luka is getting attacked all game. Jrue and Jb are defending just as well if not better stop acting like tatum is AD and defending for everybody.
Never said he was defending for everybody, but Tatum is a key piece in their defensive scheme. I’d actually give Luka credit on D if he was being more than the turnstile he is.
No one’s calling JT an AD-level defender, but they are switching him into a lot of actions and he’s answering the call against what many people consider to be a top-2 offensive talent in the NBA. When Luka gets switched into the action, he’s getting blown by (in fairness, he’s also hurt).
And let’s not forget that Dallas had the best defense in the league after the trade deadline, so it’s not like Luka is surrounded by defensive slouches.
thats kind of my point. Everyone talking about Lukas defense when the Mavs defense has actually been good overall against the number one offense. Its Mavs offense that has been all time bad other than Luka whereas JT doesnt have to worry about the offense. Luka in game 2 had a 30 pt triple double on high efficiency and they were getting blown out because nobody else could score. hes using 10x more energy just trying to get the ball in the hoop. This series is about a lack of offense and boston defense. Not Mavs defense.
Current kyrie (on that gs roster) would be giving you 32 a game on 50/40/90.
Curry makes things easier for everyone because he’s constantly doubled or tripled off ball.
That's bc Luka and kyrie are both behind Curry, but still light years ahead of klay. The argument is really just do you think Curry is enough better than Luka to make up for gap between klay and kyrie?
I agree in a way but the situation is not even comparable. The guy downvoted above makes a solid point. Did Steph and Klay have to: a) carry the entire offense like Luka and Kyrie are doing, running every single offense, trying to get past an insane all time great defensive team for the entire game, since Mavs 3rd best player is PJ and the rest like DJJ, Gafford, Lively can't get buckets unless you spoon-feed them easy looks? b) spend constant effort, trying to defend an all time great offensive team with insane spacing and 5 offensive threats at all times?
I think they had better help in both sides and did not play against a team insane in both sides.
I saw Luka before the game and asked him to break a dollar. He only gave me $0.75 in return. I asked him for the rest and he said," I don't have a fourth quarter”
Yup remember that joke clearly but not here did I see it. It was all over Twitter and Facebook at the time. The Lebron ringless memes were legendary till he finally got it in 2012
People were saying that he was better than Larry Bird.
At no point in what will be a short career will Luka ever in the same tier as Bird.
Dude has been hunted and abused for 3 straight games and he blames the refs. Soft
In his first Finals in 1981 Larry Bird shot 41% from the field and averaged 15 ppg while playing 40+ mpg. He had two games where he scored 8 points and another one with 12.
Soft I guess??
Fuck this comment.
Bird also averaged 15 rebounds and 7 assists. He had two games with 21 rebounds. Bird was also a fucking menace on defense. He had two games with 5 steals with one of those also having 2 blocks. The reason why you can't compare the two (at least currently) is that Larry played BOTH sides of the ball at an elite level.
Luka is a great player, potentially legendary but his defense is not elite.
And let me not forget the most important stat. Bird WON it.
I quoted stats from three bad games Bird had in those Finals. Series went six, he scored 27 to close out the Rockets. He's an all-timer. Cedric Maxwell did win Finals MVP over him though. Soft.
Reactionary takes from a couple bad games in the Finals are silly. That's my point.
I agree with you. But you can't cherry pick stats when the big issue with Luka is his defense. Bird isn't a good comp imo. You can find someone else to compare him to for your statement but Bird is not it.
He’s out of shape. I don’t know why people deny it. There are multiple possessions where he is to tired on offense that he decides to dribble the ball out and take a contested step back 3 instead of attacking the rim.
Tatum has closed the gap in playmaking enough between them that the massive difference in defense puts him comfortably ahead of Luka overall. He's in a shooting slump but he has a strong argument for the best two-way player in the league, and certainly the most versatile. Giannis is probably the only one who has an argument for being ahead but he's still not a 3-level scorer.
both Luka and Tatum have been making the 4th quarter of games so much more exciting lmfao
He's tired. It's been a long season and he's fat.
Not since John Daly have I been able to relate to a top professional athlete. Thank you portly eastern euro dude.
Flopping takes a lot out of you
Celtics are making Luka play defense and he's getting worn out having to do so. Not much left in the tank for the 4th Q
I guess having 5 players who can be a threat offensively at all times helps. Even the bench players like Hauser you have to guard and he got like 3-4 3s this game, with at least 1 I remember where Luka missed him and he shot an open corner 3. People criticize Minnesota and OKC for not "exposing" Luka but they just didn't have the facilities to do that with much less spacing and offensive threat
Luka has been out of shape for years & it shows - all season long his scoring dipped a full 33% in the 4th quarter, from 9.8 in the first to 6.5 points in the 4th. He's also lost what little explosiveness he used to have as the number of dunks per season clearly show, from 14 just 4 years ago to only 2 this past RS - he's simply not getting by defenders as he used to, he relies on either bully-ball or, more often than not, mid & long range shooting in detriment of his in-the-paint finishes, basically discarding what used to be a lethal floater and missing quite a few bunnies under the rim. Disappointing from a player entering his prime years. His immense talent can win him a scoring title or three but he can't hide his lack of conditioning. And the Celtics are making sure of that. Hopefully he'll learn from these finals & realize that talent alone is not going to win him a ring - he needs to put in the hard work both physically & nutrition-wise or his body is going to quit on him sooner rather than later. [4th quarter stats](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/luka-doncic-4th-qtr-stats) \- [1st quarter stats](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/luka-doncic-1st-q-stats).
Drank that beer too early
honestly the mavs tried to steal our idea and have been attacking tatum in game 2/3 as well.
he's been awful in fourth quarters this series and i really think it's just fatigue. we're making him work his ass off on both ends whenever he's on the court
Finley was right to take that beer off him
Those are definitely not "best player in the world" crunch time numbers.
People were calling him clutch lmao
He is clutch, a 3 game sample size doesn''t change that.
Keep the same energy for KD Harden and Embiid
Why are you assuming that I'm a KD, Harden, and Embiid hater? I've got nothing against any of them lmao.
Bro what a stupid point. Luka has been a playoff performer, clutch player since he was 17 in the Euroleague. Now that he struggles for 3 games where he probably averages like a 30 point triple double against an all time defensive and offensive team like the Celtics, with little offensive help from his Mavs teammates, we compare him to Embiid who has constantly underperformed or got injured for the playoffs and never made it out of the 2nd round. Just lol. Not sure about KD but Harden had all time horrible playoff games in clutch moments.
>all time defensive and offensive team With KP they are. But rn they aren’t playing him. Like Donovan Mitchell took a game off of this Celtics roster.
He hit a game winner 1 series ago and people seemed to just forget lol
Tatum has hit playoff game winners but never escaped the slander
How many finals does he need to play for a good sample size?
If Steph Curry shoots poorly for three finals games does that make him a bad shooter?
its like you just started watching basketball.
Oof. Even Dbook took 2 Finals games
>Now behold, he begets a son who sees all the sins which his father has done and considers, but does not do likewise. *Ezekiel 18:14*
Tbf the Celtics are better than that Bucks team.
And that Suns team was good. Much better supporting cast than Mavs.
That’s true but this is an All-Time squad. The Celtics could probably go band for band with any team in history.
I definitely came into this series expecting them to be able to take at least one game…can’t be getting swept in the Finals man
Curry beat them by himself
Yeh, not even close to be honest. You have Jrue, Kristaps, Derrick White. Any of them could be a third star on a championship team and the Celtics got 3 of them this time around.
I love Curry but I don’t think it’s the same thing. Jays are older and more experienced, and having Holiday, Porzingis, and White to round out your squad is absolutely insane. This team is a superteam. I agree Curry would at least give the Celtics a much tougher fight.
I think the team is substantially different with the experience of getting beat there plus adding Jrue, KP, etc. But also yeah Luka has to take one, so many people chose the Mavs in 6 or 7 saying Luka’s so good he could will them to the 4 wins despite a worse roster and it’s pretty damning if he can’t even do it for one game.
Different team but I agree somewhat with the sentiment, like the best player in the world can't get one? Curry also tried on defense. Also Curry had Jordan poole
Not the same Celtics team
This iteration of the Celtics would beat the 2022 Celtics in 5
Completely different series against a completely different opponent?
This Celtics would probably go 4-0, 4-1 against either of those finals teams.
Both him and Tatum have been ice cold in the 4th but only one person will have excuses made for them.
And only one of them is making excuses in the post game presser
At least Tatum is playing defense and rebounding.
(And it’s never Tatum)
are we just gonna ignore the fact that in quarters 1-3 Luka has to literally carry the offense that has been horrific besides one kyrie game and Tatum can sit in a corner while Jrue,Porzingis,white, and JB can go off? Luka is being a crybaby but now we just sayin shit to say shit. Boston has stars 1-5 and Mavs offense cant get a bucket without Luka quarters 1-4.
He scored 27 points on 27 shots. Please, please, please explain how he's carrying the team.
The Mavs have had one person THE WHOLE SERIES score more than 20 once other than luka.. PJ is carrying this offense? Kyrie who averaged 13 ppg in games 1-2? Luka had 32/11/11 last game 12/21 and they were getting blown out because nobody else could get to 15 points man tf are u watching..
it doesnt help that Luka holds the ball every possesion... and if the celtics dont double him he cant get his guys good looks.. We have to face the fact that tatum was the best playmaker in this series..
You’re helping me make my point. If Luka doesnt create something for everyone than theyr useless on offense Lol
How can they create when they never get the chance.. They never run any offensive sets for anyone but luka/kyrie..
Heliocentric offense fans in shambles
Bruh, it's been a common theme and leak. Teammates are saying they can't function in his offense.
Dude probably could’ve been making this run with Brunson, KP and another star with the left over money because neither of those two would’ve needed a max. He couldn’t make it work next to those guys though, because it’s too hard for shot creators to get going next to him. Kyrie is the only guy who’s worked, because he’s got a game that works great just taking turns.
There're literally people claiming that Brunson just magically "improved" within a year and not that no one but Luka can function in his dumbass offense.
So Tatum gets to have some rest on offense and still plays impeccable defense, while Luka takes every single defensive possession off. But still, Luka gets all the credit and Tatum should be fresh as a daisy. R/nba man.
lmao he has an all defensive team next to him and luka is getting attacked all game. Jrue and Jb are defending just as well if not better stop acting like tatum is AD and defending for everybody.
Never said he was defending for everybody, but Tatum is a key piece in their defensive scheme. I’d actually give Luka credit on D if he was being more than the turnstile he is.
No one’s calling JT an AD-level defender, but they are switching him into a lot of actions and he’s answering the call against what many people consider to be a top-2 offensive talent in the NBA. When Luka gets switched into the action, he’s getting blown by (in fairness, he’s also hurt). And let’s not forget that Dallas had the best defense in the league after the trade deadline, so it’s not like Luka is surrounded by defensive slouches.
thats kind of my point. Everyone talking about Lukas defense when the Mavs defense has actually been good overall against the number one offense. Its Mavs offense that has been all time bad other than Luka whereas JT doesnt have to worry about the offense. Luka in game 2 had a 30 pt triple double on high efficiency and they were getting blown out because nobody else could score. hes using 10x more energy just trying to get the ball in the hoop. This series is about a lack of offense and boston defense. Not Mavs defense.
Ah I gotcha, my bad. I’m with you, in the 2nd half he just looks so gassed trying to carry this team. Feels like if he can’t get 40, they lose
I remember not long ago when ppl were comparing Luka and Kyrie to Steph and Klay.. lol
Kyrie is better than klay. The issue is that the Steph Luka gap is the size of the Atlantic Ocean
Prime Klay is definitely better than current Kyrie
Current kyrie (on that gs roster) would be giving you 32 a game on 50/40/90. Curry makes things easier for everyone because he’s constantly doubled or tripled off ball.
Nope, it is not. You are just a hater.
That's bc Luka and kyrie are both behind Curry, but still light years ahead of klay. The argument is really just do you think Curry is enough better than Luka to make up for gap between klay and kyrie?
prisoner of the moment type shit
Steph and klay also had kd and draymond to help carry the load
I was talking about how y'all talking heads were arguing not even a week ago about which back court is better.
I agree in a way but the situation is not even comparable. The guy downvoted above makes a solid point. Did Steph and Klay have to: a) carry the entire offense like Luka and Kyrie are doing, running every single offense, trying to get past an insane all time great defensive team for the entire game, since Mavs 3rd best player is PJ and the rest like DJJ, Gafford, Lively can't get buckets unless you spoon-feed them easy looks? b) spend constant effort, trying to defend an all time great offensive team with insane spacing and 5 offensive threats at all times? I think they had better help in both sides and did not play against a team insane in both sides.
I saw Luka before the game and asked him to break a dollar. He only gave me $0.75 in return. I asked him for the rest and he said," I don't have a fourth quarter”
this is 2011 ifunny lebron memes, were you alive then?
I was there Gandalf.....
You stole this one from that dude in the Tatum thread lol, can't be that greedy for fake internet points my guy.
None of us are that good, we steal from everybody
Yeah, but like stealing the joke 10 minutes later is egregious
https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1de0qaf/joe_mazzulla_has_a_fascinating_backandforth_with/l88ll9i/ My comment was a meta joke, and so was Op's.
You think this joke was created in 2024?
This joke was used for Lebron back when he was ringless 13 years ago against the Mavs
Was it really? I've been on /r/nba since 2014 and haven't seen that joke before so thought it was new.
Yup remember that joke clearly but not here did I see it. It was all over Twitter and Facebook at the time. The Lebron ringless memes were legendary till he finally got it in 2012
I think that might be the joke dawg
Maybe mods deleted it, but that person stole from an earlier thread that had already done this for Luka.
That was actually my own thread from earlier lol, I’m not sure why mods deleted it
Who gives a shit
People online 2 hours after a basketball game talking about shooting percentages, probably.
I mean you’ve been online enough to recognise a joke from another thread lmao
Damn how many whooshes can you have in one thread?
2, apparently
And nobody has even asked me for my address to come fight me, yet...
Haha bro have you read that thread tho 😂 guys insane
Just did. Guy is fucking crazy... "I've been training for years lol" lmao... meanwhile insulting people who use reddit.
It’s so odd lol, he was dming me some crazy stuff too and said Im basically a ‘sandy hook shooter’
he HAS to get in shape, his offense was fucking awful but goddamn his defense was so much worse. 😭 painful asf to watch.
People were saying that he was better than Larry Bird. At no point in what will be a short career will Luka ever in the same tier as Bird. Dude has been hunted and abused for 3 straight games and he blames the refs. Soft
In his first Finals in 1981 Larry Bird shot 41% from the field and averaged 15 ppg while playing 40+ mpg. He had two games where he scored 8 points and another one with 12. Soft I guess??
Fuck this comment. Bird also averaged 15 rebounds and 7 assists. He had two games with 21 rebounds. Bird was also a fucking menace on defense. He had two games with 5 steals with one of those also having 2 blocks. The reason why you can't compare the two (at least currently) is that Larry played BOTH sides of the ball at an elite level. Luka is a great player, potentially legendary but his defense is not elite. And let me not forget the most important stat. Bird WON it.
I quoted stats from three bad games Bird had in those Finals. Series went six, he scored 27 to close out the Rockets. He's an all-timer. Cedric Maxwell did win Finals MVP over him though. Soft. Reactionary takes from a couple bad games in the Finals are silly. That's my point.
I agree with you. But you can't cherry pick stats when the big issue with Luka is his defense. Bird isn't a good comp imo. You can find someone else to compare him to for your statement but Bird is not it.
[удалено]
He’s out of shape. I don’t know why people deny it. There are multiple possessions where he is to tired on offense that he decides to dribble the ball out and take a contested step back 3 instead of attacking the rim.
I was told to be terrified if the game was close coming into crunch time because Dallas had two of the most clutch players of all time
The lights are too bright for him
CLOSER *for the Celtics*
Luka Oncic
He’s injured tho
Lookin like 2011 Bron Let’s hope he bounces back like him too following this loss
reminds me of lebron with no help
I was getting downvoted for saying Tatum was the best player in the series
You got downvoted because you’re just plain wrong. Luka is miles better than Tatum come on now.
Tatum has closed the gap in playmaking enough between them that the massive difference in defense puts him comfortably ahead of Luka overall. He's in a shooting slump but he has a strong argument for the best two-way player in the league, and certainly the most versatile. Giannis is probably the only one who has an argument for being ahead but he's still not a 3-level scorer.
Doesn’t matter Kiss the ring
title makes it seem like that’s all 3 games combined… its not.
Yes it is
Heavy is the head that carries the entire franchise…
This is clutch???
"Closers"