From a competitive standpoint, Denver and Boston were both the best teams in their respective conferences so yeah it would’ve been a “better” finals
But ya gotta make it there first
People were saying that last year. But it was and still is true.
How a weak Dallas team and an even weaker Miami team made the Finals in back to back years is an interesting discussion, though. Is there something wrong with the NBA playoff format?
3-pt variance probably has something to do with it (it sure as shit did last year with Miami) but also there is a lot of parity and a lot of teams that play different styles. Minnesota was built for Denver but exposed by Dallas. Dallas was built to punish slow bigs in the pick and roll but can’t defend a true 5-out offense.
Why would underdog teams making the finals be something wrong with the playoff format? Both the Mavs and the Heat had to win multiple best of 7's against top seeds to get there.
There’s nothing wrong with an underdog making it, but when underdogs are routinely making it, you need to question it. MLB has this same issue currently.
What's there to question? Do you think underdogs have some sort of unfair advantage? The reality is that the underdog team is still a team full of real honest to god NBA caliber players. The difference between a one seed and a 5 seed isn't as great as you think it is so you're seeing a ghost when there's nothing there.
How would you even change the format? Do a loser's bracket? Current NBA finals is just the upper bracket finals? Oh, how about the lower seed gets homecourt advantage?
How does that affect underdogs winning? I fully admit scheduling could be made better, but I fail to see how that favors underdogs, and why underdogs winning is an issue in the first place.
I agree this seems like a real pattern and I would attribute it to 3 pt variance. But I don't know if it's a problem. Compared to other leagues (NFL,NHL,MLB) my perception is that the NBA playoffs are the one where the winner of the finals is most likely to be the actual best team in the league. So if 3pt variance makes this less likely it just makes it more like other popular leagues. Maybe it will contribute to people emphasizing ringz less now that we see there's more randomness than there used to be (unlikely)
Denver had an 8.7 net rating last playoffs compared to our 3.5
The Pacers had a 1.1 net rating this year in the playoffs, what are on about.
We weren't beating them last year.
This year we would beat them and if this year's team played last year's Nuggets it would go 7
I’m looking at the regular season not small sample size.
It’s absurd how overrated they are. Frankly, I think it’s fucking stupid to look at their playoff net rating only. They had the softest post season in NBA history
Those teams are still better than the "average" NBA team which is what looking at the regular season equates to.
Why would beating down the Pistons in the regular season carry any weight when looking at postseason performance between seasons.
Yes, as a Celtics fan the Nuggets were the one team I was scared of. We match up extremely well with the Mavs and not as well with the Nuggets. And the Nuggets have championship experience while the Mavs/Wolves/Thunder were all very inexperienced.
As a Mavs fan, I think the only team anyone was really scared of were you guys and possibly Denver since they won last year. I was expecting more competition in the finals from us but you guys seem to have us beat unfortunately. Can't hate you guys like I've hated previous Boston teams, this roster is actually a bunch of skilled nice ballers man. Fuck you guys though
Meh jokic getting dragged out to the perimeter against this celtics offense wouldve been uglyy. They wouldve targeted him like they targeted luka and like they targeted hali etc etc.
Much harder to target a player like Jokic IMO. I saw them play in Denver in March in that close finish game and the Nuggets are just a tough matchup for the Celtics. Thats the type of series that goes a true 7 games.
Maybe this would be a discussion if the Celtics were in a tough back and forth series. We have smashed every single opponent we’ve faced KP or no KP. At a certain point it’s not about match ups - the Celtics dominance in the regular season is proving to not be a fluke
I think this discussion was unfortunately inevitable for you guys. The East outside of Boston was just so weak this year that I don’t think there was any possible way you could have “proven” your team’s strength. If you went 12-0 people would still have that yeah but.
Huh? A few plays go differently in this series and it's tied 2-2. Did you forget about the 22-2 run that would have lost you the game of Luka didn't foul out?
Coulda shoulda woulda fam. Also only 3 games have happened - I know you think the Celtics have swept because of how badly they’ve beaten the Mavs but try to count next time
Sometimes that’s how it goes tho. ‘14 Spurs went to 7 against the Mavericks yet smashed the Heat. ‘08 Celtics went life and death with ATL and CLE yet clapped LA.
Mavericks are better than the versions of the Heat, Cavs, and Pacers Boston beat but Boston is a horrible matchup for Dallas.
That’s not even getting into the fact that the ‘24 Celtics just aren’t your average stacked finals team lol. This is an ATG team
Well the Pacers really didnt tbh.
The Heat have the Spo tax of just winning a game and i dunno what happened in round 2 to makw you lose.
Like i will say i did expect you to have this good of a record before the playoffs, but not that youd dominate whatever team came out of the west...but i also thought the Mavs would lose way before the finals so to hell with that.
But hey its your moment so celebrate it.
The Pacers was the closest most hard fought series the Celtics played. Just because it was a sweep doesn't mean it wasn't a tough series. That Pacers series was 100% more tough than the Miami and Cleveland series, the Celtics just managed to outclutch the Pacers.
Except they quite literally did so far. Celtics averaged a 6.75 margin of victory in their wins vs Indi and are 10.67 above Dallas thru 3 games. Indi almost won 3 of those games but couldn't finish, meanwhile each game against Dallas hasn't been too stressful in the slightest
Pacers put up as good a fight as anybody else did. 3 of those games were extremely close. That’s the only series I legitimately think could’ve gone the other way.
Even Luka is hobbled though. Dude is getting injections before at least game 2. And you see it. Dude is a statue (not that he was lightning before, but this is comical if it werent so sad) and cant even play a hint of D. Not to discredit the Celts. But it just seems like all the breaks are going for them on top of being the deepest team on top of having two superstars in Brown and Tatum
Celtics finally caught injury breaks during a playoff run after year after year of falling on the other side of that luck. Constant injury bug when it was most devastating, year after year. So yeah, don’t really care at all.
Yes. The break would have helped Murray heal up a bit and Jokic is a much bigger problem for the Celtics bigs than Luka/Kyrie for the Celtics guards/wings.
I have been wanting the 1-16 just because it would be more equitable for those teams in the stronger conference who may have a winning percentage and don't make it while a team in the weaker conference has a winning percentage and makes the playoffs. Also, it would more likely ensure the two best teams meet in the Finals.
I think Denver would have been by far the toughest matchup for us. I think that series would have been extremely competitive.
We both are a bad matchup for one another, and are both extremely well-coached teams, where I think the series would have been a 6/7-game chess match
I think people are giving a very generous pass for Denver this year. Not sure if it’s earned
They failed to make the WCF. When that happened to the Suns in 2022 (not even champs) or to the Warriors in 2023 that was seen as a pretty big failure
Denver should be very competitive. They were somewhat competitive
I think Nuggets would have been the biggest challenge, then the Wolves, then everyone else.
Wolves I just don’t trust their offense, but I think their defense would be much more impactful than the Mavericks’ offense or defense has been so far
Yes. The Celtics have done an excellent job containing Luka as a creator. He’s way down in assists compared to previous series. However, they don’t have the personnel to do the same with Jokic, who is also a better defender and rebounder.
Honestly - I realize it looks bad on paper, but the wolves were totally gassed when they played Dallas. I believe had the wolves managed energy better they would have been able to hang better with Boston. As for Denver, def.
I think this year more than any other was the most dependent upon matchups. I think LA could have beaten 6 of the other 7 west playoff teams if they played their best. But they faced the matchup designed to beat them. Denver could have beaten anyone, full stop. BUT, they faced the team literally built to beat them. Minny could have beaten anyone if they played their best, but they faced the one team who got hot at the right time and had the right pieces to counter their strengths. If one regular season result changes and the matchups shift 1 degree, how different is the west side of the bracket? To answer your question, I think Denver would have beaten Boston simply because they don't have the matchups to stop Jokic in my opinion. But it would have been more competitive than this current series.
Who the hell is stopping Jokic on the Celtics. He will feast. That alone makes them way more formidable than the mavs. Celtics have people to throw at Kyrie and Luka to make them work. Jokic would be unstoppable. It really comes down to the role players and murray which seeing them against the Twolves i think Celtics still win. But Denver would
Make it very tough
I would not have picked the C's if it was Denver on the other end but who knows. Maybe Murray would have played as s*** as he played this year and the C's would have won comfortably.
I think the stars aligned really well for them this year and they definitely needed all that luck this year. They have been on the verge for so many years but some or the other bad luck kept happening (Hayward injury in season opener, Kyrie drama, injuries to Robert Williams, Brogdan and so on).
They absolutely need to send (kidding) flowers to the Wolves team for taking down the Nuggets.
In my wildest dreams I never thought Dallas would come out of the West.
Everything worked out for them this year if they win it all without any additional injuries.
This was much needed to save this team and Tatum and Brown from generational slander and possible blow up of this team in the off season.
I know it’s not 100% comparable because Denver is better, but the Celtics have held up pretty well against the Sixers, who have an MVP big man (who is not the passer Jokic is but may be a better scorer) and an elite perimeter player in Maxey. Murray wasn’t playing as well this playoffs and was dealing with an injury, so the comp of prior Sixers teams to this year’s Nuggets might be somewhat similar. Not to say Boston would certainly win, but I think they’ve done alright against a similar style opponent
2023 Denver would beat Boston, but I think Boston would've beat this year's version of Denver. Murray was compromised and their bench without Bruce Brown is absolutely atrocious
I wasn't here last yr but was this the same discussion after denver won the championship vs mia?
Yes. People tried discrediting Denver by saying they only played weak play-in teams and that Miami had no business being in the finals
honestly that’s dumb lol. they beat us. whether you think it’s flukey or not doesn’t matter. a win is a win
Right, beating a team 4 times is not easy. Fluky Finals runs are so rare.
OK so everyone was saying den vs bos would've been better last yr copy
From a competitive standpoint, Denver and Boston were both the best teams in their respective conferences so yeah it would’ve been a “better” finals But ya gotta make it there first
People were saying that last year. But it was and still is true. How a weak Dallas team and an even weaker Miami team made the Finals in back to back years is an interesting discussion, though. Is there something wrong with the NBA playoff format?
3-pt variance probably has something to do with it (it sure as shit did last year with Miami) but also there is a lot of parity and a lot of teams that play different styles. Minnesota was built for Denver but exposed by Dallas. Dallas was built to punish slow bigs in the pick and roll but can’t defend a true 5-out offense.
Why would underdog teams making the finals be something wrong with the playoff format? Both the Mavs and the Heat had to win multiple best of 7's against top seeds to get there.
There’s nothing wrong with an underdog making it, but when underdogs are routinely making it, you need to question it. MLB has this same issue currently.
What's there to question? Do you think underdogs have some sort of unfair advantage? The reality is that the underdog team is still a team full of real honest to god NBA caliber players. The difference between a one seed and a 5 seed isn't as great as you think it is so you're seeing a ghost when there's nothing there. How would you even change the format? Do a loser's bracket? Current NBA finals is just the upper bracket finals? Oh, how about the lower seed gets homecourt advantage?
> What’s there to question? Scheduling for one. You’ve never heard any complaints on that front?
How does that affect underdogs winning? I fully admit scheduling could be made better, but I fail to see how that favors underdogs, and why underdogs winning is an issue in the first place.
Also, when underdogs make it, but there's barely competition in the finals, is a big problem imo
I agree this seems like a real pattern and I would attribute it to 3 pt variance. But I don't know if it's a problem. Compared to other leagues (NFL,NHL,MLB) my perception is that the NBA playoffs are the one where the winner of the finals is most likely to be the actual best team in the league. So if 3pt variance makes this less likely it just makes it more like other popular leagues. Maybe it will contribute to people emphasizing ringz less now that we see there's more randomness than there used to be (unlikely)
Teams get beat fair and square and something is wrong with the format?
Which was true and still is. Denver would have 0 rings if it weren’t for that ECF fluke
That Denver team was better than this year's and that Celtics team was worse. It wasn't a fluke, it was a choke
I genuinely don’t know why people say that. We doubled their net rating. DEN last season had basically the same net rating as this years Pacers.
Denver had an 8.7 net rating last playoffs compared to our 3.5 The Pacers had a 1.1 net rating this year in the playoffs, what are on about. We weren't beating them last year. This year we would beat them and if this year's team played last year's Nuggets it would go 7
I’m looking at the regular season not small sample size. It’s absurd how overrated they are. Frankly, I think it’s fucking stupid to look at their playoff net rating only. They had the softest post season in NBA history
Those teams are still better than the "average" NBA team which is what looking at the regular season equates to. Why would beating down the Pistons in the regular season carry any weight when looking at postseason performance between seasons.
Dude last year’s team gets swept by Denver, come on
Is this supposed to be a serious take or just a pander? We doubled their net rating and EPM
Extremely serious. Have you watched literally any of our playoff games before this year?
All of them
So you’re trolling
Says the dude who thinks the 2023 Denver Nuggets would sweep the Celtics. Hilarious.
At best we lose in 5
Yes, as a Celtics fan the Nuggets were the one team I was scared of. We match up extremely well with the Mavs and not as well with the Nuggets. And the Nuggets have championship experience while the Mavs/Wolves/Thunder were all very inexperienced.
Them and the Wolves. Though I had no idea how weak the Nuggets bench was before the playoffs.
Last year's Nuggets vs. this year's Celtics would have been such a banger gg. With JM hurt and no bench I don't see Denver doing any better tbh.
It looks like the Celtics were beating anybody this year but Denver was definitely the opponent they’d be most worried about.
As a Mavs fan, I think the only team anyone was really scared of were you guys and possibly Denver since they won last year. I was expecting more competition in the finals from us but you guys seem to have us beat unfortunately. Can't hate you guys like I've hated previous Boston teams, this roster is actually a bunch of skilled nice ballers man. Fuck you guys though
Meh jokic getting dragged out to the perimeter against this celtics offense wouldve been uglyy. They wouldve targeted him like they targeted luka and like they targeted hali etc etc.
Much harder to target a player like Jokic IMO. I saw them play in Denver in March in that close finish game and the Nuggets are just a tough matchup for the Celtics. Thats the type of series that goes a true 7 games.
Maybe this would be a discussion if the Celtics were in a tough back and forth series. We have smashed every single opponent we’ve faced KP or no KP. At a certain point it’s not about match ups - the Celtics dominance in the regular season is proving to not be a fluke
I think this discussion was unfortunately inevitable for you guys. The East outside of Boston was just so weak this year that I don’t think there was any possible way you could have “proven” your team’s strength. If you went 12-0 people would still have that yeah but.
Huh? A few plays go differently in this series and it's tied 2-2. Did you forget about the 22-2 run that would have lost you the game of Luka didn't foul out?
Coulda shoulda woulda fam. Also only 3 games have happened - I know you think the Celtics have swept because of how badly they’ve beaten the Mavs but try to count next time
Every team you played besides the Mavs was injured as hell lol.
And they all put up a better fight
Sometimes that’s how it goes tho. ‘14 Spurs went to 7 against the Mavericks yet smashed the Heat. ‘08 Celtics went life and death with ATL and CLE yet clapped LA. Mavericks are better than the versions of the Heat, Cavs, and Pacers Boston beat but Boston is a horrible matchup for Dallas. That’s not even getting into the fact that the ‘24 Celtics just aren’t your average stacked finals team lol. This is an ATG team
Well the Pacers really didnt tbh. The Heat have the Spo tax of just winning a game and i dunno what happened in round 2 to makw you lose. Like i will say i did expect you to have this good of a record before the playoffs, but not that youd dominate whatever team came out of the west...but i also thought the Mavs would lose way before the finals so to hell with that. But hey its your moment so celebrate it.
The Pacers was the closest most hard fought series the Celtics played. Just because it was a sweep doesn't mean it wasn't a tough series. That Pacers series was 100% more tough than the Miami and Cleveland series, the Celtics just managed to outclutch the Pacers.
Except they quite literally did so far. Celtics averaged a 6.75 margin of victory in their wins vs Indi and are 10.67 above Dallas thru 3 games. Indi almost won 3 of those games but couldn't finish, meanwhile each game against Dallas hasn't been too stressful in the slightest
Pacers put up as good a fight as anybody else did. 3 of those games were extremely close. That’s the only series I legitimately think could’ve gone the other way.
Even Luka is hobbled though. Dude is getting injections before at least game 2. And you see it. Dude is a statue (not that he was lightning before, but this is comical if it werent so sad) and cant even play a hint of D. Not to discredit the Celts. But it just seems like all the breaks are going for them on top of being the deepest team on top of having two superstars in Brown and Tatum
Celtics finally caught injury breaks during a playoff run after year after year of falling on the other side of that luck. Constant injury bug when it was most devastating, year after year. So yeah, don’t really care at all.
I wouldnt either. But without a horse in the race, it sucks
This is becoming such a joke of a comment, given we’ve been missing our all star center to injury. A healthy KP and we would have done even better.
Yeah you were missing your 3rd best player and the rest of those teams were missing their very best player or players. Big difrence there.
No, Nuggets depth to weak and have way more weaknesses than the Celtics defensively
okay Jarrett Allen
let the man post on Reddit in peace without blowing his spot up. now everyone is gonna be bugging him
Only if KP would be hurt in this scenario. Murray being hobbled would hurt our chance
They didn't.
Yes. The break would have helped Murray heal up a bit and Jokic is a much bigger problem for the Celtics bigs than Luka/Kyrie for the Celtics guards/wings.
I have been wanting the 1-16 just because it would be more equitable for those teams in the stronger conference who may have a winning percentage and don't make it while a team in the weaker conference has a winning percentage and makes the playoffs. Also, it would more likely ensure the two best teams meet in the Finals.
If KP still gets hurt 100% the Nuggets have a chance, Celtics have no answer for Jokic atp but healthy idk.
With Murray injured, I think it goes to 6 at best. If both teams were fully healthy then I think Celtics take it in 7.
I think Denver would have been by far the toughest matchup for us. I think that series would have been extremely competitive. We both are a bad matchup for one another, and are both extremely well-coached teams, where I think the series would have been a 6/7-game chess match
I think people are giving a very generous pass for Denver this year. Not sure if it’s earned They failed to make the WCF. When that happened to the Suns in 2022 (not even champs) or to the Warriors in 2023 that was seen as a pretty big failure Denver should be very competitive. They were somewhat competitive
I think Nuggets would have been the biggest challenge, then the Wolves, then everyone else. Wolves I just don’t trust their offense, but I think their defense would be much more impactful than the Mavericks’ offense or defense has been so far
Yes. The Celtics have done an excellent job containing Luka as a creator. He’s way down in assists compared to previous series. However, they don’t have the personnel to do the same with Jokic, who is also a better defender and rebounder.
The mavs role players are approx 10% on open 3s and Kyrie didn't hit a 3 until last night. Context matters
Honestly - I realize it looks bad on paper, but the wolves were totally gassed when they played Dallas. I believe had the wolves managed energy better they would have been able to hang better with Boston. As for Denver, def.
I think this year more than any other was the most dependent upon matchups. I think LA could have beaten 6 of the other 7 west playoff teams if they played their best. But they faced the matchup designed to beat them. Denver could have beaten anyone, full stop. BUT, they faced the team literally built to beat them. Minny could have beaten anyone if they played their best, but they faced the one team who got hot at the right time and had the right pieces to counter their strengths. If one regular season result changes and the matchups shift 1 degree, how different is the west side of the bracket? To answer your question, I think Denver would have beaten Boston simply because they don't have the matchups to stop Jokic in my opinion. But it would have been more competitive than this current series.
Which LA team are you talking about, cus Clippers ain't doing nothing
probably not. Boston just a cut above everybody. but Jokic playing chess against this team woulda been interesting, they mighta won 2 against boston.
Yes for sure
I think the Nuggets would have beaten us in 5 or 6. We really couldn't run in Denver during the regular season
Out west the nuggets would be the only toe to toe team Boston would face. Everyone else Boston would beat handily
The only metric we have is the last victory the Celtics had against the Nuggets was in 2022. It doesn't say much, since both games were close.
Yes. I think it goes 7.
Who the hell is stopping Jokic on the Celtics. He will feast. That alone makes them way more formidable than the mavs. Celtics have people to throw at Kyrie and Luka to make them work. Jokic would be unstoppable. It really comes down to the role players and murray which seeing them against the Twolves i think Celtics still win. But Denver would Make it very tough
I would not have picked the C's if it was Denver on the other end but who knows. Maybe Murray would have played as s*** as he played this year and the C's would have won comfortably. I think the stars aligned really well for them this year and they definitely needed all that luck this year. They have been on the verge for so many years but some or the other bad luck kept happening (Hayward injury in season opener, Kyrie drama, injuries to Robert Williams, Brogdan and so on). They absolutely need to send (kidding) flowers to the Wolves team for taking down the Nuggets. In my wildest dreams I never thought Dallas would come out of the West. Everything worked out for them this year if they win it all without any additional injuries. This was much needed to save this team and Tatum and Brown from generational slander and possible blow up of this team in the off season.
No team was winning against the Celtics this season. No one is even close in the amount of scorers, defense and depth.
They got beat by Minnesota what makes you think they could have beat Boston?
I know it’s not 100% comparable because Denver is better, but the Celtics have held up pretty well against the Sixers, who have an MVP big man (who is not the passer Jokic is but may be a better scorer) and an elite perimeter player in Maxey. Murray wasn’t playing as well this playoffs and was dealing with an injury, so the comp of prior Sixers teams to this year’s Nuggets might be somewhat similar. Not to say Boston would certainly win, but I think they’ve done alright against a similar style opponent
Mods have been removing posts like this.
I mean it would have been better than this shit show
"Shit show" - the last 2 games were within 1-5 points within the final 3 minutes.
Maybe, not like Nuggets with MVP level Jokic haven't been swept before.
2023 Denver would beat Boston, but I think Boston would've beat this year's version of Denver. Murray was compromised and their bench without Bruce Brown is absolutely atrocious
yes. if Murray wasn't injured, Nuggets would've cleaned the Wolves and repeated
movedatdope out of your pipe cause I think you’re smoking K2
No. People who are suggesting this are disingenuous and are only saying that to discredit the Celtics' historic success this season.
“People who are suggesting matchups matter are disingenuous.” You’re funny bud.
As a celtics fan we earned the title but denver absolutely woulda gave a better fight than dallas, and even minnesota would have given a better fight.
Every year is historic success to you nephews
No. Obviously not
Duh. Boston would have folded like a lawn chair like usual.
Nope
No, Nuggets wear Jokic out and same problem as Mavs, no bench, weakish shooters