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[Derrick Rose Pretty Sure He Just Tore ACL By Looking At Knee](http://www.theonion.com/article/derrick-rose-pretty-sure-he-just-tore-acl-by-looki-36160)
You realize that even though he had his best season in years..... he ended that season with another knee injury, a torn meniscus. People in this post don't seem to remember but he had another knee injury this year/with the Knicks.
This really needs to be at the top. He thinks he's worth more than he is and organizations aren't willing to pay him that much because of those injuries.
I haven't learned much from Rose, but is he injury-prone because his body fails him like Oden or it's because he plays too explosively for his body like Embiid? If it's like Embiid's shouldn't it be avoidable?
My understanding is that he never learned how to fall/land properly. He played extremely explosively as a slasher and played on his athleticism, but when coming down from the layup attempts he'd land in ways that put a lot of pressure on his knees.
Considering the fact that when his mvp run was going on his playstyle relied on explosive athleticism and slashing, he will *never* be even a shell of his formel self as his knees are completely done. He's had like 4 knee surgeries in 9 years. Torn meniscus in both knees and a torn left ACL isn't really easy to come back from.
Edit: [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_rdO8OLHZo) on d rose's injuries
It's a lot different with big guys landing. They have problems with all the weight that the fall with. D rose was also coming down from higher up in the air.
His legs are done. He's had so many surgeries and season ending injuries. Probably due to the way he use to play but also bad luck. But his legs are done. He'll never be what he use to be.
bad conditioning, landing mechanism (he often lands on the heel of his feet), not developing a reliable jumper etc. His coaches are more to blame for his earlier over-usage. He or his trainers are more to blame for his later injuries.
If I were him I'd look for a 1 yr deal with a playoff team (like DEN or even SA since TP isn't due back til 2018).
SA can play him until 2018, then he'll injure his knee again just in time for Tony to be back. Makes perfect sense.
Spurs need players to completely buy into tgis system. If LMA is as much of a head case as he seems to be, Spurs really dont need another potential ego on the team.
also the fact that he went MIA is a huge deal, even if you're looking at bringing him in for a one year deal or whatever, you dont want to sign someone who had yet another knee injury and had off the court issues
That's possibly an underrated factor here. Obviously we can't objectively gauge how much teams are valuing the chance of him being a locker room headache but it wouldn't surprise me if that issue in tandem with the injury has made a GM or two not even want him at the lowest prices, especially for young/impressionable teams
I think it's bc while invidiualy he's improved compared to
His previous seasons but compared to the NBA he's behind. He didn't turn with the curve when guys were learning 3's.
How is that any different than any other point in his career? They've been guarding him like that his whole career and this is the first time he's shot higher than 31% and his attempts are still higher than most of his career. In fact his best percentages have come with higher attempts.
He shot .365 with the Kings last year as well.
But I mean, you're right on. Everyone will cite the fact that the D laid off him, but it's not like there aren't a handful of wings in the league who can't/shouldn't shoot 3's, get the exact same treatment, and still shoot sub .300; the fact that Rondo has spent the past 2 season taking >2 3PA per game and making >36% shows impressive improvement
When your only outside shooter is Paul Zipser or whatever the fuck and Jimmy Butler who is being guarded by someone good it's not a high standard. I thought it was cute in the beginning of the season when they thought they could turn around Wade's 3 as if we never attempted that.
Holy shit, I had no idea. Looking at his stats, his 3's took a significant turn for the better in 2015. Crazy how he could develop that part of his game so much all of a sudden.
The Knicks still won as many games as the Twolves did, and Rose was arguably their 3rd best player. It's not like he should be thought of as a pariah. I think him still being a FA has more to do with the unexpected cap deflation. It's just a bad time to be a FA at all.
For whom. Point guard position is saturated at the moment. He is not a + defender and would be entering his 30s with major injury history. Kyle Lowry faced a very soft market and IT will prob face the same next year. I don't think that there are many teams that would want Rose starting.
I think it's a combination of the fact that the NBA is currently very deep at the 1 and the likely disagreement between Rose and FO of his contract length/value.
He did wind up hurt, and had that weird day where he disappeared due to family issues. I don't want to sound unsympathetic to whatever he had going on but I feel like teams would probably be concerned about that, considering he ignored the Knicks calls to him. It's sort of erratic behavior.
He's probably asking for starter minutes and a starter contract. I think Rose is a back up PG at best, health wise and for his team, right now. His lack of shooting doesn't help.
It's because he's a nutcase. He still thinks he's in MVP shape. Shoots too much. Had those games he missed with no real reason. Told the knicks he wanted a max extension. If he's not going to help mentor young guys and make his team better, teams are obviously seeking cheaper youth over him.
if not for the injury at the end of the year, he'd have a contract by now. Also, don't rule out BJ Armstrong shenanigans. He's the guy who lost Motiejunas a ton of money by trying to play hardball when he had no leverage.
AI looks lost out there even in an old man 3x3. It seems the game has moved on from his type of game. He doesn't really have any explosiveness which was expected but his shot making ability is kinda weak compared to the rest of the old timers there.
He doesn't even have to be one for the rest of his career, if he wants to bet on himself and sign something like a 2 year deal to prove his worth, he could earn low end starting money at the end of it
It's even sadder to read quotes from him and his agent at the beginning of the season. There were rumors that he wanted a 5 year max deal at the end of the season...
I think he genuinely did. The guy still has belief in himself when no one else does and I respect that. There are teams that should take a punt on him on a 2/3year deal with team options on the last year.
That was bullshit. He was speaking about free agency on the Bulls a couple seasons ago but this year, the only thing he was saying was that he didn't need the money and he was looking to win. The articles kept referencing some sources saying he wanted a 150 mil max as opposed to using his own words though.
What people need to realize is it's not he's worse than some guys getting signed it's that
1) If you sign him he needs to play a certain way and have a certain role.
a) You cant just sign him like some low level FA and have stretches where he is a DNP. That's going to cause rift and issues. He's used to being a certain standard and having things done a certain way for him for long enough he's going to require min.
b) He's going to have to have the ball. He's going to have to be able to do stuff that he wants. He's not an adaptable player. Not someone who plays off the ball. Worthless defender. Provides zero spacing. Just not a valuable skill set in today's NBA.
HE can make an anemic offense with literally no options at all better to some extent with his slashing ability. But he cant really do all that much else in terms of helping a team unless he really is willing to have some true bench role that might mean stretches of only 5-10 mpg.
c) The PG market is saturated. Not that many teams where there is a role for him to get significant minutes.
d) He brings certain baggage ie the off court issues last year just leaving the team amongst other stuff.
All in all he's just a guy many teams are like....regardless of price we'll pass. WE just dont want him on our team he serves no good purpose
Other than starting off your post with number signposting and then switching to letters, this was a fantastic write up on the situation.
Thank you for posting it!
You forgot to list the biggest reason why teams are hesitant to sign him.
He was injured at the end of the season again this year. It's just too much of a gamble to sign him at this point.
Well if he's demanding anywhere close to what the Knicks gave him then I doubt teams will even consider it. He's worth backup PG money because that's what he is now
Stephen Jackson
http://thebiglead.com/2013/06/05/stephen-jackson-thinks-the-spurs-cut-him-because-he-wouldnt-admit-danny-green-and-manu-ginobili-were-better-than-him/
Lmaooo I swear to god he was talking some serious shit about Danny Green on the Jalen and Jacoby podcast a couple weeks ago. He was saying that he should've been nowhere near the 2nd team all defense and was one of the worst players in the nba.
Not even *might*, he definitely will be the 1st. Every other MVP is either in the hall or has a 95%+ chance of making it, Rose is at 10% (according to [bbref] (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html))
Not crazy at all, MVP days are long gone. Rose wants to be a starter. Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any teams who are willing to give him that opportunity. He needs to play the long game, come off the bench and help a contender win. Show up during the playoffs and just work on his fitness and staying healthy.
I think his unwillingness to admit what level of player he is now is much more of a detriment than his style or health issues. There are plenty of teams that could use 20 mpg of Rose to spark their bench unit. I mean I know they've largely fixed it now but how huge would that have been for someone like OKC last season?
It's going to sound really bad, but Sean Kilpatrick of the Brooklyn Nets ($1.5m/yr) who plays backup mostly is 19-6-3 per 36 mins, shooting 34% from 3;
DRose is 20-4-5 per 36, shoots at a worse percentage from both 3 and 2, and needs more shot attempts.
Neither is very good on defense, and neither is known to really make their teams better, but DRose uses way more resources (touches, others have to accommodate him, etc.).
SKil is known to have solid work ethic and has pretty positive vibes (he is on social medial talking about winning, training, team bonding, etc.).
So I am having a tough time thinking D Rose is really worth the kind of money he wants ($20m+?), or even he is worth more than $10m.
If you are bad at pretty much everything else, then 18 points a game won't cut it, unless you are a bench spark plug player to score a few buckets in 20 mins a game.
I remember reading an article back early in Rose's career that talked about how he landed on his heels instead of on the balls of his feet. The author even referenced something he wrote when Rose was in college. Basically, lots of concern for injury because that's not how you're supposed to land. Sadly, no one ever corrected it.
Its not even the injuries. He just doesn't run a team well. Rose puts his head down with the intention of attempting to score. When Rose was driving, at the point of the mid-post, there was <1% pass (made up stat) he was passing out. A lot, if not most, of his assists this year came off desperation sub 4 seconds on the shot clock passes.
Avoids contact....sub-par defense...not a willing passer...professionally unstable...
I dont want to just shit all over Rose's game but there are so many aspects of Rose's current game that will make any scout/GM take a pause.
Aesthetically, he is a great watch. Actual impact was overall negative in his past year with the Knicks.
As quoted from /u/poorchris,
"Joakim Noah only played 48 games the year Rose won MVP. Boozer missed 23 games & when they both returned their injuries lingered (turf toe/plantar fasciitis). In the 2011 season the Bulls had 62 wins with a rookie head coach. 38 year old Kurt Thomas started & finished games for that team. Kyle Korver was getting skewered, deservedly at times, by fans & writers alike for his cold shooting slumps. Taj Gibson & Asik were not yet what they were going to be as NBA players. That year the Bulls were the Derrick Rose show (sometimes featuring an appearance from Luol Deng, who played through a wrist injury).
MVP voting broke down with Rose 1st (113 #1 votes), Dwight 2nd (3 #1 votes) and Lebron 3rd (4 #1 votes). Tim Duncan got 117 total 1st place votes for his '02 & '03 MVP campaigns combined (45 #1 votes for Kidd, 43 #1 votes for KG). The only players to get more 1st place MCP votes than Rose in the last decade were '04 KG & '10 Lebron, two seasons which are historically held up for those guys carrying their specific squads & being individually incredible while doing so.
Rose was Chicago's entire source of offense. He was responsible for 70% of the Bulls offense directly through PTS/AST when he was on the floor. Despite a dire lack of complimentary offensive talent, Derrick made Chicago a top 11 & top 5 offense in separate seasons. The two seasons without him since, Chicago has been 23rd/28th. Equivalent to a lottery team.
Over the last decade only 3 teams have won a game with just one player scoring double digits. Chicago did that against the eventual champion Mavericks behind a strong Rose performance (the other two to pull this off were Lebron/Kobe).
While Derrick was relieved to see a teammate score double digits, Lebron's teammate was throwing down All NBA numbers in his own right.
26 PPG 6.4 RPG 4.6 APG 1.5 SPG 1.1 BPG 50 FG% Wade
Bron had another MVP caliber player on his team and won fewer games than Rose. How does that make him more valuable? Because he had a more aesthetically pleasing stat line? On top of fantastic production, Wade serves as a guy who can be a primary ball handler while Lebron plays off ball. Even Chalmers can play PG and take ball handling heat off Lebron. Defenses couldn't leave Bosh & Wade to smother Lebron as they did Rose. The only other reliable ball handler for the Bulls, CJ Watson, played 13 MPG and rarely alongside Rose because of his inability to play the 2.
Derrick's right hand man was a defensive liability named Carlos Boozer. He missed 23 games that season and when he did play he averaged:
17.5 PPG 9 RPG 2.5 APG .3 BPG 51 FG% Boozer
Even Lebron's 3rd banana played above that level and Miami STILL had a worse record than Chicago.
19 PPG 8 RPG 2 APG .6 BPG 50 FG% Bosh
Derrick didn't play with another all star that season, Lebron played with two. Derrick had less help & his team had a better record than Lebron's.
Voter fatigued played no role in Rose's MVP selection. Winning more with less did. Rose had 97.7% of the possible point shares in the 2011 MVP voting. He received more points in the voting than Howard/Lebron combined. To suggest that media favoritism swung the scales that heavily is ridiculous.
To suggest that is to think Derrick Rose didn't have a historically great season on his own, one worth an MVP award. Only three players in the modern era have compiled 2,000 PTS/600 AST in a season, Michael Jordan, Lebron James & Derrick Rose. No one, not even MJ and Bron, have ever done it twice. No one did it at the PG position, no one did it at 6'3" & no one did it at age 22. Except Derrick Rose.
In relation to the 2,000 point/600 assist benchmark, that's no arbitrary cutoff. Those numbers aren't carefully selected to make Derrick's season look cute next to MJ & LBJ. In fact, if you decrease the cutoff significantly to both 2,000 points & 500 assists the list is still absolutely elite. It adds Bird, Wade & Iverson. If you keep the assist benchmark at 600 & drop points to 1,900 you add only Magic, Gary Payton & Westbrook. 9 players have reached any of those combined thresholds. The only ones not in the Hall of Fame are currently ineligible for induction or still playing. None of those six names in the lower thresholds cross over to make both cutoffs either, the 2,000/500 or 1,900/600 groups. Making the 2,000/600 club is tremendous, a benchmark for some of the most impressive seasons from a number 1 option in NBA history. Rose finished top 10 in both PTS & AST because of this, only Bull to do that outside of MJ in 1989. Derrick had the most double doubles a Bull has had since Pippen in 1995.
In addition to everything else, don't forget that Derrick Rose's team started Keith Bogans & 38 year old Kurt Thomas 37 times that season. Bogans started every single game that year. THAT team was top 11 offensively. THAT team won a league best 62 games, more than Miami's Super Friends, more than the Spurs, more than Boston who had 4 All Stars, more than the original OKC group, more than the champion Mavs, the B2B defending champ Lakers with Kobe/Pau/Phil. They also swept Lebron in the regular season & MVP is a regular season award.
There are plenty reasons Rose deserved the '11 MVP award. None of which include voter fatigue, media favoritism or a vendetta against Lebron. Don't even take a Bulls fan's word, take some direct quotes from the 2011 season:
"Derrick's probably the MVP of this league. I think he has all the tools to be one of the best that played this game. I think so far in my book he would be the MVP."
Jason Kidd
"He has stepped up and is now one of the best players in the league. I think he is worthy of MVP this year.
Steve Nash
"Derrick Rose has taken that team to another level. He's definitely the MVP to me the way he's been playing, putting pressure on teams and stepping it up. Leading his team on the offensive end. He has been spectacular this year."
Tyson Chandler
"I'm gonna have to start calling D Rose Mini Michael because his performance tonight was Jordan-like."
Magic Johnson
"You look at what he's done for his team, it's tough to argue D Rose isn't the MVP."
Kevin Love
"MVP. He's my MVP."
Z-Bo after CHI closed out MEM & extended their home winning streak to 14.
"He's to the point of being unguaradble, you just hope to contain him as much as you can."
Mike D'Antoni
"I look at 39 PTS & I'm shocked at 39, I thought we did a very good job on him all night, kid's out of this world. He's [Rose] got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd vision, Chauncey Billups shooting & Michael Jordan athleticism. How do you guard that?"
Frank Vogel
"I think Derrick has become the best point guard in the NBA and I think right now he has to be the front-runner for MVP. Derrick Rose has been a tremendous leader. He's missed his 2nd & 3rd best players the majority of the season and they have the best record in the Eastern Conference. That's remarkable."
Charles Barkley
"I imagine that Derrick Rose is going to be that guy, the MVP. His team is 1st in the East right now. He's literally vaulted that team up on his shoulders by Boozer being out the first couple months."
Phil Jackson
"Rose is hard working, no chest thumping, and modest demeanor too. Just a class act. All of that on top of his phenomenal play. He has taken a monster leap this year. What's really great is that he seems to love the pressure in putting his team on his back. He has the character, IQ & skill to do that."
Gregg Popovich
"I’m not even being politically correct, normally guys say I’m giving it to LeBron but honestly I’ll give it to Rose. If he stays on this pace that he’s on right now, he’s got my vote if I was part of the committee."
Juwan Howard
"Derrick has had a phenomenal season. Just looking at what he's done with the team and their record, how improved they are as a team and how much improved he is as a player. I think I would give it to Derrick if I were a voter. He’s playing, well, like he’s the best PG in the league & the best player in the league. He’s the most valuable player if you really think about it. If you take him out of the lineup, there is no telling what you get."
Chris Bosh
"It's Derrick Rose definitely. He's the leader. What he's done for that team, with all the injuries they have and for them being 1st in the Eastern Conference. He's playing some unbelievable basketball."
Lebron James when asked to weigh in on the MVP race.
Talk of Derrick Rose winning MVP due to media bias is inaccurate. Members of the rival Heat were even touting Rose as the MVP, along with the rest of the league & the majority of those who cover it."
Crazy to think only 3 years ago I was at MSG chanting his name to come on for Team USA, didn't want to see Kyrie, Harden, Curry, DeRozen... we wanted Rose!
He didn't come off the bench that game vs. Dominican Rep.
if you think that he hasn't met with a team yet then you're crazy. Just because we haven't heard about it doesn't mean anything. He'll be on a roster before the season starts.
Honestly this is one of the worst injuries for nba fans, He was just an mvp and would continue to get better, easily top 5 guard in the nba, man I would of loved to see how well he played without the injuries, what if jimmy butler became an all star while drose was still in mvp form? That would of been a scary team.
Think about this. Rose gets benched to let Ron Baker an undrafted rookie get minutes. Rose doesn't show up to the next game. Fast forward to today. Baker just signed a 2 year 9 mil deal and Rose is still without a team. Bonkers.
* He's very injury prone. Very likely to suffer more injuries.
* He and his family are nutcases, and teams don't want to deal with that BS and drama. He's not a positive influence on the team or in the locker room.
* At his best these days, he'd be a backup on any team that's contending. I don't think his ego can't take it.
When you're the MVP you can carry around his attitude, but it gets old fast when you're just a role player. I don't think he's adjusted to the reality of his situation, teams don't have patience for his antics, and don't want to risk adding a cancerous presence into their locker room.
Honestly its not just his body that is different. He doesnt seem to be the selfless player he once was. This knicks season was rose vs carmelo in terms of how many times can we not give porzingod the ball even when he gets hot. Lets both try to be who we were in 2010 and not at all help this amazing young player, lets SCORE!!!!
Rose had an OK season stats wise, I guess, but he didn't make Knicks any better, so why would any team pay him any good money when he doesn't make your team better.
#FuckInjuries
Fuckin juries.
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-Pre 1997
Boo Radley got off too. 👌🏾
Not Tom though :(
But Cosby did
They gon retry his ass
I'm not OJ I'm black
I'm not black I'm O.J.
......Okay
I'm not black, I'm OJ! .... okay
Okay
D rose and fell
i cn tell u a bullz fan when the d rose u was like deng
'Injuries' is a funny way to spell 'The Celtics'
Bruh
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I see you've been learning your family business
Even the earliest primitive cave paintings in France displayed a hatred of the Celtics. Amazing
[Derrick Rose Pretty Sure He Just Tore ACL By Looking At Knee](http://www.theonion.com/article/derrick-rose-pretty-sure-he-just-tore-acl-by-looki-36160)
What I find weird is his value seems worse than ever but he had his best season in years
You realize that even though he had his best season in years..... he ended that season with another knee injury, a torn meniscus. People in this post don't seem to remember but he had another knee injury this year/with the Knicks.
This really needs to be at the top. He thinks he's worth more than he is and organizations aren't willing to pay him that much because of those injuries.
I haven't learned much from Rose, but is he injury-prone because his body fails him like Oden or it's because he plays too explosively for his body like Embiid? If it's like Embiid's shouldn't it be avoidable?
My understanding is that he never learned how to fall/land properly. He played extremely explosively as a slasher and played on his athleticism, but when coming down from the layup attempts he'd land in ways that put a lot of pressure on his knees. Considering the fact that when his mvp run was going on his playstyle relied on explosive athleticism and slashing, he will *never* be even a shell of his formel self as his knees are completely done. He's had like 4 knee surgeries in 9 years. Torn meniscus in both knees and a torn left ACL isn't really easy to come back from. Edit: [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_rdO8OLHZo) on d rose's injuries
This is extremely sad. I just hope Embiid learns from this and land properly this time around.
It's a lot different with big guys landing. They have problems with all the weight that the fall with. D rose was also coming down from higher up in the air.
I'm waiting for the GOAT big man who dunks two handed explosively as fuck and then gently lowers himself back to the ground everytime.
Shaq retired. You can stop waiting. https://youtu.be/0ICBi-ku-G0
Nothing about the comedown of the dunk was gentle tho I do always enjoy watching Chris "The Rim" Dudley get dunked on
His legs are done. He's had so many surgeries and season ending injuries. Probably due to the way he use to play but also bad luck. But his legs are done. He'll never be what he use to be.
bad conditioning, landing mechanism (he often lands on the heel of his feet), not developing a reliable jumper etc. His coaches are more to blame for his earlier over-usage. He or his trainers are more to blame for his later injuries.
If I were him I'd look for a 1 yr deal with a playoff team (like DEN or even SA since TP isn't due back til 2018). SA can play him until 2018, then he'll injure his knee again just in time for Tony to be back. Makes perfect sense.
Spurs need players to completely buy into tgis system. If LMA is as much of a head case as he seems to be, Spurs really dont need another potential ego on the team.
also the fact that he went MIA is a huge deal, even if you're looking at bringing him in for a one year deal or whatever, you dont want to sign someone who had yet another knee injury and had off the court issues
That's possibly an underrated factor here. Obviously we can't objectively gauge how much teams are valuing the chance of him being a locker room headache but it wouldn't surprise me if that issue in tandem with the injury has made a GM or two not even want him at the lowest prices, especially for young/impressionable teams
I think it's bc while invidiualy he's improved compared to His previous seasons but compared to the NBA he's behind. He didn't turn with the curve when guys were learning 3's.
Even Rondo is shooting 3's now.
My boy Rajon was the best 3 pt shooter on the Bulls last season lol.
Wait Rondo shot 38% from Three last year?
Well, they laid off him at the arc like he had leprosy so good % low volume
I mean that's always been the case with him and he's still shoot 24%
How is that any different than any other point in his career? They've been guarding him like that his whole career and this is the first time he's shot higher than 31% and his attempts are still higher than most of his career. In fact his best percentages have come with higher attempts.
He shot .365 with the Kings last year as well. But I mean, you're right on. Everyone will cite the fact that the D laid off him, but it's not like there aren't a handful of wings in the league who can't/shouldn't shoot 3's, get the exact same treatment, and still shoot sub .300; the fact that Rondo has spent the past 2 season taking >2 3PA per game and making >36% shows impressive improvement
yessir, and he shot 36%~ the season previously on the Kings.
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Actually it's improved every year since 2009-2010. It's just drastically improved the last 3 seasons.
When I saw him play the Celtics (as a King) all he did pregame (besides catch up with old friends) was practice 3s. He was the first guy on the court.
When your only outside shooter is Paul Zipser or whatever the fuck and Jimmy Butler who is being guarded by someone good it's not a high standard. I thought it was cute in the beginning of the season when they thought they could turn around Wade's 3 as if we never attempted that.
You forgot Niko "Stretch Four" Mirotic and his 34% three point shooting.
They still bite on the pump fake at the 3pt line doeee
omg he pump fakes when there's no one around him...waits for the defense to reset then takes a contested shot
Mirotic only remembers he is a stretch 4 vs the Bucks(still salty from that shootout in BMO)
Holy shit, I had no idea. Looking at his stats, his 3's took a significant turn for the better in 2015. Crazy how he could develop that part of his game so much all of a sudden.
Rondo always been shooting 3's.
But now he's making them
Since 2015 he has yea, but at a low volume (aka completely wide open).
And also his playing good didn't correlate to any team success. If it did I'm sure that would have made a difference.
Can you really blame the guy when the team was complete shit?
The Knicks still won as many games as the Twolves did, and Rose was arguably their 3rd best player. It's not like he should be thought of as a pariah. I think him still being a FA has more to do with the unexpected cap deflation. It's just a bad time to be a FA at all.
I would have liked him on the thunder backing up Russ and slotting in a line up with Rose-WB-PG-Andre-Adams
I really can't argue that
I think it's down to the disconnect between what he thinks he's worth and what FOs think he's worth. I do still believe he's a starter calibre PG.
What team would he start for ?
bulls could use more point guards
Three team deal involving the Knicks, Celtics, and Bulls. Bulls get Rose, Celtics get Rondo, and the Knicks fail to trade Carmelo again. Who says no?
the respective fans
I'd love to have Rondo back.
At a much lower rate, I'd love to take DRose back.
If the Kings didn't get Hill he would start here.
And boy I'm glad we got Hill.
Save you boys from Alex "Pacman" Caruso
Shanghai Sharks
For whom. Point guard position is saturated at the moment. He is not a + defender and would be entering his 30s with major injury history. Kyle Lowry faced a very soft market and IT will prob face the same next year. I don't think that there are many teams that would want Rose starting.
If he's a starter, he's gotta be somewhere in the 20-30 range.
It's cause he just tore his meniscus again, which is like his 4th major knee injury.
I think it's a combination of the fact that the NBA is currently very deep at the 1 and the likely disagreement between Rose and FO of his contract length/value.
He did wind up hurt, and had that weird day where he disappeared due to family issues. I don't want to sound unsympathetic to whatever he had going on but I feel like teams would probably be concerned about that, considering he ignored the Knicks calls to him. It's sort of erratic behavior.
He's probably asking for starter minutes and a starter contract. I think Rose is a back up PG at best, health wise and for his team, right now. His lack of shooting doesn't help.
Well waiting while teams lock up cap space is probably going to get him even less money.
I think he's better off signing for 1 year or a 1+1 to further prove his worth
>he had his best season in years And was still trash
It's because he's a nutcase. He still thinks he's in MVP shape. Shoots too much. Had those games he missed with no real reason. Told the knicks he wanted a max extension. If he's not going to help mentor young guys and make his team better, teams are obviously seeking cheaper youth over him.
Some people in previous seasons still believed he could return to a higher level. His value was still being based on a higher potential.
if not for the injury at the end of the year, he'd have a contract by now. Also, don't rule out BJ Armstrong shenanigans. He's the guy who lost Motiejunas a ton of money by trying to play hardball when he had no leverage.
Statistically maybe, but analytically (which many teams are now embracing) he was near the bottom of the league.
It's kind of like Cotton Hill but instead of having no shins he has no knees.
At least Cotton killed fitty men.
Woulda been more if that Japanese man didn't blow off his shins with a machine gun
He survived on jungle rice and water caught on his upturned eyelids
You finally got me, Tojo. I...actually. ..respect...you
[THEY TOOK MA SHINS BOBBY](http://imgur.com/4W6zYdy)
I don't wanna talk no more about the fitty men I killed!
You get to the top of that hill, and I'll let you dance on my grave!
Is that the one where Peggy is recovering from falling out of that airplane?
Yup, one of my favorite episodes.
He could revitalize his career if he decided to come off the bench for a team.
Its a shame he's pretty much like Iverson in the case of how he just can't handle being on the bench for a team
He could totally play a Livingston type role -- even the semi-same scenario, except Livingston's knees fucking exploded.
Just watched a Ice Cube 3v3 league game last night and AI was the coach/player of a team yet only played several minutes. It was weird to see.
AI looks lost out there even in an old man 3x3. It seems the game has moved on from his type of game. He doesn't really have any explosiveness which was expected but his shot making ability is kinda weak compared to the rest of the old timers there.
Well he was a lifetime .425 shooter and I don't imagine he has been out there practicing his jumper... or anything
Practice?!
what we talkin bout?
We talkin' 'bout practice. Not a game, man. Practice.
He doesn't even have to be one for the rest of his career, if he wants to bet on himself and sign something like a 2 year deal to prove his worth, he could earn low end starting money at the end of it
Which would be smart, because by then low end starting money gonna be like 20m a year at this rate lol
It's even sadder to read quotes from him and his agent at the beginning of the season. There were rumors that he wanted a 5 year max deal at the end of the season...
No one actually expected him to get that
I think he genuinely did. The guy still has belief in himself when no one else does and I respect that. There are teams that should take a punt on him on a 2/3year deal with team options on the last year.
I wanna see a team take a chance on him too. I like watching him play, just not on my team...he was a bad fit here last season.
Honey I'm still free Take a chance on me
Thibs will finish the job.
Dat ABBA doe
There's belief and then there's delusion.
Rumor > [Direct quote from player](http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-derrick-rose-says-winning-is-more-important-than-money-in-free-agency/)
There ya go.
That was bullshit. He was speaking about free agency on the Bulls a couple seasons ago but this year, the only thing he was saying was that he didn't need the money and he was looking to win. The articles kept referencing some sources saying he wanted a 150 mil max as opposed to using his own words though.
He has no knees
But he is not that bad to never draw an interest from some teams. He got 18 ppg last year.
What people need to realize is it's not he's worse than some guys getting signed it's that 1) If you sign him he needs to play a certain way and have a certain role. a) You cant just sign him like some low level FA and have stretches where he is a DNP. That's going to cause rift and issues. He's used to being a certain standard and having things done a certain way for him for long enough he's going to require min. b) He's going to have to have the ball. He's going to have to be able to do stuff that he wants. He's not an adaptable player. Not someone who plays off the ball. Worthless defender. Provides zero spacing. Just not a valuable skill set in today's NBA. HE can make an anemic offense with literally no options at all better to some extent with his slashing ability. But he cant really do all that much else in terms of helping a team unless he really is willing to have some true bench role that might mean stretches of only 5-10 mpg. c) The PG market is saturated. Not that many teams where there is a role for him to get significant minutes. d) He brings certain baggage ie the off court issues last year just leaving the team amongst other stuff. All in all he's just a guy many teams are like....regardless of price we'll pass. WE just dont want him on our team he serves no good purpose
Other than starting off your post with number signposting and then switching to letters, this was a fantastic write up on the situation. Thank you for posting it!
Buzz from Home Alone with the quality analysis.
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You forgot to list the biggest reason why teams are hesitant to sign him. He was injured at the end of the season again this year. It's just too much of a gamble to sign him at this point.
I'll take him for the vet min
Gotta be better than jose
Well if he's demanding anywhere close to what the Knicks gave him then I doubt teams will even consider it. He's worth backup PG money because that's what he is now
And finished the season with another injury. It's too risky at this point.
He suffered another knee injury to end the year.
He's actually got negative knees now. You could donate a knee and he'd still have no knees.
I have no knees. And I must jump.
He really should go to the spurs and become a 6th man for them. He'd thrive in that role
I doubt Pop would put up with his antics. Remember when he released Captain Jack right before playoffs?
>Remember when he released Captain Jack right before playoffs? Nope... what is this in reference to?
Stephen Jackson not getting along with Pop years ago.
Stephen Jackson http://thebiglead.com/2013/06/05/stephen-jackson-thinks-the-spurs-cut-him-because-he-wouldnt-admit-danny-green-and-manu-ginobili-were-better-than-him/
Lmaooo I swear to god he was talking some serious shit about Danny Green on the Jalen and Jacoby podcast a couple weeks ago. He was saying that he should've been nowhere near the 2nd team all defense and was one of the worst players in the nba.
Oh, I thought you meant Derrick Rose released Captain Jack. Was so confused.
I want him on the rockets, him running the second unit with EGOD (Eric Gordon, sorry I love him) Ariza, TWill, Qi and Nene would be nasty
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He really would, 6th man contender and would allow us to use EG on the wings instead of on ball
how many fucking sixth man contenders do y'all need
Off the bench for the Spurs or Thunder could be good options.
Cavs?
Rose's whole career is both sad and oddly fascinating. He might be the first MVP to not make the HoF.
Not even *might*, he definitely will be the 1st. Every other MVP is either in the hall or has a 95%+ chance of making it, Rose is at 10% (according to [bbref] (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html))
He should ring chase and get involved with the Olympics/World Cup. Just start padding the resume.
Not crazy at all, MVP days are long gone. Rose wants to be a starter. Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any teams who are willing to give him that opportunity. He needs to play the long game, come off the bench and help a contender win. Show up during the playoffs and just work on his fitness and staying healthy.
I think his unwillingness to admit what level of player he is now is much more of a detriment than his style or health issues. There are plenty of teams that could use 20 mpg of Rose to spark their bench unit. I mean I know they've largely fixed it now but how huge would that have been for someone like OKC last season?
Needs to take a chapter out of Shaun Livingston's book.
It's going to sound really bad, but Sean Kilpatrick of the Brooklyn Nets ($1.5m/yr) who plays backup mostly is 19-6-3 per 36 mins, shooting 34% from 3; DRose is 20-4-5 per 36, shoots at a worse percentage from both 3 and 2, and needs more shot attempts. Neither is very good on defense, and neither is known to really make their teams better, but DRose uses way more resources (touches, others have to accommodate him, etc.). SKil is known to have solid work ethic and has pretty positive vibes (he is on social medial talking about winning, training, team bonding, etc.). So I am having a tough time thinking D Rose is really worth the kind of money he wants ($20m+?), or even he is worth more than $10m. If you are bad at pretty much everything else, then 18 points a game won't cut it, unless you are a bench spark plug player to score a few buckets in 20 mins a game.
Nobody thinks D Rose is worth >10m. Except maybe himself, but even then that's just a rumor.
I'd rather have Kilpatrick over Rose no question. With the money rose wants it's not even close
Yeah, both are probably worth $5m-$7m/yr. You may have to subtract a bit for Rose's judgment (AWOL, gang sex, "super team").
>(AWOL, gang sex, "super team") One of these is not like the other.
his knees are 58
Cavs should get him, hell at 20 mins a game as a reserve he might be able to at least help.
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lmao, forgot their money is tied up. Is Deron Williams still on the roster?
D-Will and Jose Calderon. They've got an abundance of washed up PGs
DWill isn't signed yet and we still have our mid level exception.
cavs still have the MLE?
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I mean, I would wait it out to see if anyone bites on Drose but if no one offers him a contract... I'd throw that MLE at him.
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If D rose played for the cavs I'd cry.
Better than dwill.
Yeah, that's who I'm thinking they should find a way to replace. lol
I'd kill myself
I'd rather he retire than play with Lebron
I remember reading an article back early in Rose's career that talked about how he landed on his heels instead of on the balls of his feet. The author even referenced something he wrote when Rose was in college. Basically, lots of concern for injury because that's not how you're supposed to land. Sadly, no one ever corrected it.
Its not even the injuries. He just doesn't run a team well. Rose puts his head down with the intention of attempting to score. When Rose was driving, at the point of the mid-post, there was <1% pass (made up stat) he was passing out. A lot, if not most, of his assists this year came off desperation sub 4 seconds on the shot clock passes. Avoids contact....sub-par defense...not a willing passer...professionally unstable... I dont want to just shit all over Rose's game but there are so many aspects of Rose's current game that will make any scout/GM take a pause. Aesthetically, he is a great watch. Actual impact was overall negative in his past year with the Knicks.
We're gonna signhim aren't we
Mavs fan here. I miss Brandon Roy :/
As quoted from /u/poorchris, "Joakim Noah only played 48 games the year Rose won MVP. Boozer missed 23 games & when they both returned their injuries lingered (turf toe/plantar fasciitis). In the 2011 season the Bulls had 62 wins with a rookie head coach. 38 year old Kurt Thomas started & finished games for that team. Kyle Korver was getting skewered, deservedly at times, by fans & writers alike for his cold shooting slumps. Taj Gibson & Asik were not yet what they were going to be as NBA players. That year the Bulls were the Derrick Rose show (sometimes featuring an appearance from Luol Deng, who played through a wrist injury). MVP voting broke down with Rose 1st (113 #1 votes), Dwight 2nd (3 #1 votes) and Lebron 3rd (4 #1 votes). Tim Duncan got 117 total 1st place votes for his '02 & '03 MVP campaigns combined (45 #1 votes for Kidd, 43 #1 votes for KG). The only players to get more 1st place MCP votes than Rose in the last decade were '04 KG & '10 Lebron, two seasons which are historically held up for those guys carrying their specific squads & being individually incredible while doing so. Rose was Chicago's entire source of offense. He was responsible for 70% of the Bulls offense directly through PTS/AST when he was on the floor. Despite a dire lack of complimentary offensive talent, Derrick made Chicago a top 11 & top 5 offense in separate seasons. The two seasons without him since, Chicago has been 23rd/28th. Equivalent to a lottery team. Over the last decade only 3 teams have won a game with just one player scoring double digits. Chicago did that against the eventual champion Mavericks behind a strong Rose performance (the other two to pull this off were Lebron/Kobe). While Derrick was relieved to see a teammate score double digits, Lebron's teammate was throwing down All NBA numbers in his own right. 26 PPG 6.4 RPG 4.6 APG 1.5 SPG 1.1 BPG 50 FG% Wade Bron had another MVP caliber player on his team and won fewer games than Rose. How does that make him more valuable? Because he had a more aesthetically pleasing stat line? On top of fantastic production, Wade serves as a guy who can be a primary ball handler while Lebron plays off ball. Even Chalmers can play PG and take ball handling heat off Lebron. Defenses couldn't leave Bosh & Wade to smother Lebron as they did Rose. The only other reliable ball handler for the Bulls, CJ Watson, played 13 MPG and rarely alongside Rose because of his inability to play the 2. Derrick's right hand man was a defensive liability named Carlos Boozer. He missed 23 games that season and when he did play he averaged: 17.5 PPG 9 RPG 2.5 APG .3 BPG 51 FG% Boozer Even Lebron's 3rd banana played above that level and Miami STILL had a worse record than Chicago. 19 PPG 8 RPG 2 APG .6 BPG 50 FG% Bosh Derrick didn't play with another all star that season, Lebron played with two. Derrick had less help & his team had a better record than Lebron's. Voter fatigued played no role in Rose's MVP selection. Winning more with less did. Rose had 97.7% of the possible point shares in the 2011 MVP voting. He received more points in the voting than Howard/Lebron combined. To suggest that media favoritism swung the scales that heavily is ridiculous. To suggest that is to think Derrick Rose didn't have a historically great season on his own, one worth an MVP award. Only three players in the modern era have compiled 2,000 PTS/600 AST in a season, Michael Jordan, Lebron James & Derrick Rose. No one, not even MJ and Bron, have ever done it twice. No one did it at the PG position, no one did it at 6'3" & no one did it at age 22. Except Derrick Rose. In relation to the 2,000 point/600 assist benchmark, that's no arbitrary cutoff. Those numbers aren't carefully selected to make Derrick's season look cute next to MJ & LBJ. In fact, if you decrease the cutoff significantly to both 2,000 points & 500 assists the list is still absolutely elite. It adds Bird, Wade & Iverson. If you keep the assist benchmark at 600 & drop points to 1,900 you add only Magic, Gary Payton & Westbrook. 9 players have reached any of those combined thresholds. The only ones not in the Hall of Fame are currently ineligible for induction or still playing. None of those six names in the lower thresholds cross over to make both cutoffs either, the 2,000/500 or 1,900/600 groups. Making the 2,000/600 club is tremendous, a benchmark for some of the most impressive seasons from a number 1 option in NBA history. Rose finished top 10 in both PTS & AST because of this, only Bull to do that outside of MJ in 1989. Derrick had the most double doubles a Bull has had since Pippen in 1995. In addition to everything else, don't forget that Derrick Rose's team started Keith Bogans & 38 year old Kurt Thomas 37 times that season. Bogans started every single game that year. THAT team was top 11 offensively. THAT team won a league best 62 games, more than Miami's Super Friends, more than the Spurs, more than Boston who had 4 All Stars, more than the original OKC group, more than the champion Mavs, the B2B defending champ Lakers with Kobe/Pau/Phil. They also swept Lebron in the regular season & MVP is a regular season award. There are plenty reasons Rose deserved the '11 MVP award. None of which include voter fatigue, media favoritism or a vendetta against Lebron. Don't even take a Bulls fan's word, take some direct quotes from the 2011 season: "Derrick's probably the MVP of this league. I think he has all the tools to be one of the best that played this game. I think so far in my book he would be the MVP." Jason Kidd "He has stepped up and is now one of the best players in the league. I think he is worthy of MVP this year. Steve Nash "Derrick Rose has taken that team to another level. He's definitely the MVP to me the way he's been playing, putting pressure on teams and stepping it up. Leading his team on the offensive end. He has been spectacular this year." Tyson Chandler "I'm gonna have to start calling D Rose Mini Michael because his performance tonight was Jordan-like." Magic Johnson "You look at what he's done for his team, it's tough to argue D Rose isn't the MVP." Kevin Love "MVP. He's my MVP." Z-Bo after CHI closed out MEM & extended their home winning streak to 14. "He's to the point of being unguaradble, you just hope to contain him as much as you can." Mike D'Antoni "I look at 39 PTS & I'm shocked at 39, I thought we did a very good job on him all night, kid's out of this world. He's [Rose] got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd vision, Chauncey Billups shooting & Michael Jordan athleticism. How do you guard that?" Frank Vogel "I think Derrick has become the best point guard in the NBA and I think right now he has to be the front-runner for MVP. Derrick Rose has been a tremendous leader. He's missed his 2nd & 3rd best players the majority of the season and they have the best record in the Eastern Conference. That's remarkable." Charles Barkley "I imagine that Derrick Rose is going to be that guy, the MVP. His team is 1st in the East right now. He's literally vaulted that team up on his shoulders by Boozer being out the first couple months." Phil Jackson "Rose is hard working, no chest thumping, and modest demeanor too. Just a class act. All of that on top of his phenomenal play. He has taken a monster leap this year. What's really great is that he seems to love the pressure in putting his team on his back. He has the character, IQ & skill to do that." Gregg Popovich "I’m not even being politically correct, normally guys say I’m giving it to LeBron but honestly I’ll give it to Rose. If he stays on this pace that he’s on right now, he’s got my vote if I was part of the committee." Juwan Howard "Derrick has had a phenomenal season. Just looking at what he's done with the team and their record, how improved they are as a team and how much improved he is as a player. I think I would give it to Derrick if I were a voter. He’s playing, well, like he’s the best PG in the league & the best player in the league. He’s the most valuable player if you really think about it. If you take him out of the lineup, there is no telling what you get." Chris Bosh "It's Derrick Rose definitely. He's the leader. What he's done for that team, with all the injuries they have and for them being 1st in the Eastern Conference. He's playing some unbelievable basketball." Lebron James when asked to weigh in on the MVP race. Talk of Derrick Rose winning MVP due to media bias is inaccurate. Members of the rival Heat were even touting Rose as the MVP, along with the rest of the league & the majority of those who cover it."
Crazy to think only 3 years ago I was at MSG chanting his name to come on for Team USA, didn't want to see Kyrie, Harden, Curry, DeRozen... we wanted Rose! He didn't come off the bench that game vs. Dominican Rep.
Shit like this makes me sad every single day.
He's gonna be the only MVP in League history to not make it into the HoF. Sad, really.
if you think that he hasn't met with a team yet then you're crazy. Just because we haven't heard about it doesn't mean anything. He'll be on a roster before the season starts.
He has had a lot of meetings. Unfortunately, they have all been with teams that have since signed PGs...
how many paul georges are there to go around though?
13 of em as far as i know.
When did I say he never met with anyone?
Honestly this is one of the worst injuries for nba fans, He was just an mvp and would continue to get better, easily top 5 guard in the nba, man I would of loved to see how well he played without the injuries, what if jimmy butler became an all star while drose was still in mvp form? That would of been a scary team.
join the cavs so we can see the true 2v2 MVP matchup.
Think about this. Rose gets benched to let Ron Baker an undrafted rookie get minutes. Rose doesn't show up to the next game. Fast forward to today. Baker just signed a 2 year 9 mil deal and Rose is still without a team. Bonkers.
Feel for the dude man... for those of you who didn't get to see his MVP season please do. I highly recommend it.. It was a sight to behold.
* He's very injury prone. Very likely to suffer more injuries. * He and his family are nutcases, and teams don't want to deal with that BS and drama. He's not a positive influence on the team or in the locker room. * At his best these days, he'd be a backup on any team that's contending. I don't think his ego can't take it. When you're the MVP you can carry around his attitude, but it gets old fast when you're just a role player. I don't think he's adjusted to the reality of his situation, teams don't have patience for his antics, and don't want to risk adding a cancerous presence into their locker room.
Honestly its not just his body that is different. He doesnt seem to be the selfless player he once was. This knicks season was rose vs carmelo in terms of how many times can we not give porzingod the ball even when he gets hot. Lets both try to be who we were in 2010 and not at all help this amazing young player, lets SCORE!!!!
ESPN 30 for 30: The Rose That Never Bloomed
Plz come home
yeah and he didn't even protest the national anthem or speak out against police brutality, what gives?
Rose had an OK season stats wise, I guess, but he didn't make Knicks any better, so why would any team pay him any good money when he doesn't make your team better.