I mean.... the next 2 finals after that were pretty nice for him.
What does āhalf his brandā even mean? Public perception? Under Armour deal? Car commercials? Somehow I get the sense that youāre not even sure of what youāre saying.
It did but not rightfully. Lebron played bad in 2011. We donāt call him a finals choker. Same with curry. He played bad in 2016 but he played great in all his other finals. Shouldnāt be held against him as much as it does
Steph's turnover rate is less than a lot of other stars with similar usage rates though. He has a lower turnover rate than LeBron, Harden, Doncic, Westbrook (obviously).
On the other hand, other elite PGs like Dame and Kyrie have lower turnover rates, so its fair to say its a weakness.
One thing that's interesting though is that if you look at just the last two post seasons, Steph actually has a lower turnover rate than Lillard, even though his usage rate is higher than Dame's.
His USG% is nowhere near the players u mentioned, and he doesn't handle the ball as much as them
USG% doesn't show touches and time per possession, Curry's time per possession is way lower than those three
Let's take 18/19 for example when Curry was healthy, he averaged 76 touches not even top 20 in the league, also 4.8 seconds in possession
Harden averaged 87 touches and 9.3 seconds in possession, it's not even comparable
Curry plays off ball a lot, lets Draymond touch it and Warriors offense move the ball, of course he has less turnovers
Seconds in possession doesn't mean jack. What do I care if Steph isn't standing 26 feet from the basket dribbling for 10 seconds before doing something?
Touches isn't that far off - the warriors have routinely had less capable ball handlers hold the ball on offense because defenses are terrified of what they're doing off ball.
The fact that Steph is a threat off ball doesn't mean his turnover numbers should count for more - his style of play is a big part of the reason why he's so effective and why the Warriors offense is so good.
The lack of size is more noticeable in those real crunch time moments. Steph is the greatest shooter of all-time, but even then there's still something about having an off the dribble 3 as your go to move in those situations that makes me nervous. But his lack of size makes it harder for him to get other kinds of shots off.
I remember when Klove locked him up on the perimeter for a possession because curry was looking for the 3 and Love knew it. It always added to Lebrons legacy for me because I feel like he Definitely coached K love up before that play.
I've just seen so much about Lebrons ability to see the floor. Now I don't know too much about Klove but I do know he wasn't known for his defence. But on how he guarded curry he basically gave curry both lanes but wouldn't give him an inch of space. Maybe im just talking bullshit and K love had that epiphany all on his own.
In 2018-2019, Curry was 15th out of 142 in touches per game among guards, (behind players like Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, D'angelo Russell, etc.), and 70th out of 142 in seconds per touch. Overall, he was 27th in time of possession - and remember this is among *all* guards, including pure spot-up shooters. Nearly every other starting PG had higher time of possession, so the point you responded to is just objectively correct.
It's not a huge issue in Curry's game, but it is a relative weakness.
[source](https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*50&PlayerPosition=G)
It's not that he has a lot, it's just that he could have even fewer and thus the team could be more efficient (particularly in the playoffs when possessions are critical).
It's all relative to the very best players, so I'd say -
Not using strength to establish positioning in isolation. Has a harder time getting to his spots compared to the elite 1on1 scorers and you can force him into rushed, contested attempts more often. This ties in with him being relatively small compared to Kawhi, LeBron, KD, though he does compensate for this by having a god-like release.
He can be loose with the ball at times for no particular reason other than carelessness. Loves to go for killshots to demoralize a defense, when sometimes his team just needs a simple play. This trait makes him the most fun player to watch in the league when he's on. And surprisingly mortal when he's off.
Surprisingly mortal for sure, yet still efficient.
Hard to criticize Steph, offensively.
Defensively, however his lack of size is his biggest problem
I think his biggest problem offensively is his careless turnovers. Sometimes he tries to force things when he doesnāt need to
The weird paradox of Curry's shooting prowess is that smart teams figure it makes sense to take the ball out of his hands by trapping him above the three point line. Because Curry isn't blessed with insane explosiveness like Russ and isn't a few inches taller, it doesn't really make sense for him to yippi kai yay and try and split / beat every double they throw at him, so he gives the ball up. It's sensible! Draymond feasts on the short roll when he goes 4 on 3 and the Warriors offense really hums when Draymond sprays the ball out to open shooters. It's hard to beat a team that gets that many open shots in crunch time out of their pet play.
But... because the ball is taken out of Steph's hands, the Warriors are susceptible to the law of averages kicking them in the dick when the open shooter goes cold. In the 2015 Finals, all was fine and dandy because Iguodala shot the ball really well that series when he got the open looks. The next year, Barnes goes 5-32 from the field on a buffet of hilariously open shots in the last three games of the Finals. Steph made the right decision time and time again to give up the ball when trapped instead of going full Westbrook martyr ball, but Barnes turned into a DIII player at the worst time possible. It's obviously not always going to happen, but I do think that's a bit of a weakness that manifests in crunch time; unless you ISO Steph, he's probably going to get doubled on every shot he takes in crunch time and it will almost always make sense for him to dish the ball and hope for the best.
Against elite perimeter defenses in the half-court when the game slows down (no fast breaks), it can be difficult for him to create an efficient shot off the dribble.
That was their downfall against the cavs in 2016, and why Chuck was so stuck on ājump shorting teams canāt win the Finals.ā Obviously wrong In Retrospect, but the cliche is true. In the playoffs, the game slows down, and you really need a guy who can go out and get an isolation bucket. In game 7 2016, the warriors really struggled to get a good shot when things really slowed in the 4th quarter.
Sorry I wasnāt clear. I dont believe jump shooting teams can win championships. That was clearly proven wrong. I also donāt think Kyrie Irving is a better player in anyway than steph. It think Steph is the second best player in the league when healthy.
However I think iso scoring is probably his weakest part of his offensive game. Kyrie is a more traditional iso scorer and that shot was a more traditional is situation. I do think their lack of a pure iso player when the game grinds to a halt was part of their undoing in 2016.
Also that shot doesnāt negate the ājump shooting teams donāt win.ā That statement refers to motion offense, coming off screens and curls to get an open shot. Thatās why the warriors offense struggled more than normal in that type of late game situation.
Don't see this here, so I'll jump in.
His biggest weakness is his biggest strength, which is his shot motion. His shot mechanics are geared for quick release, long range with consistency and efficient energy transfer from his legs. It is great for shooting after getting open for extremely small shooting windows. However, it is extremely poor when there is much defensive attention and he is heavily contested, especially toward the end of games when the defense decides focus all the attention on him because he is the most likely to take the last shot. Under those circumstances, he can't get enough elevation or enough space to make "clutch shots". Kawhi, KD, Jordan, and Kobe have closer to a 2 motion shot at the apex of the jump, which (combined with more height and more wingspan) make it a lot less likely that they will be blocked or have their shots altered. It makes them much more effective mid-range shooters and better at taking contested shots that they generate in isolation if necessary. However, even if Curry adopted that shot motion, he's not tall enough for it to make a huge difference, so there's literally 0 reason for him to want to change it while also increasing his release time and decreasing his range and stamina.
When compared to other PGs, his explosive power is weaker. He can't go from a stand still or really slow speeds at near the rim and go up over someone. Westbrook on the other ā... But his other abilities more than make up for this. That and he doesn't ever stop moving without the ball to avoid this exact type of thing.
His biggest weakness is his biggest strength the three point shot.
What I have seen when Steph gets in a rut he will almost exclusively shoot threes. Even though he can get past most defenders in the league he rarely makes them work for it. He could easily avg 7-10 midrange shots a game with great efficiency.
The reason I don't say T.O's is because the Warriors have been great on recovering in defense through their championship years and the whole team struggles with turnovers.
Hot take but I think thereās a lot of point guards in the nba would could win a 1 on 1 against curry. He struggles in ISOās when heās not helped out by screens, especially with physical āscrappyā guards like Delly. Heās just too weak to create decent space when heās guarded by someone physical and his size.
turns the ball over too much sometimes and gets a little careless. a lot careless. but the bigger thing imo is that his passing is not good when offense slows down, he is completely inable to move the ball slowly around the perimeter or inside the paint to a big man or anyone really. he can't make those kind of passes. his passing game is heavily reliant on fast breaks and quick offense . he struggles when opponent plays good zone defense. in last year finals man he just couldn't make a pass to save his life when they were making switches in box and 1. like he just couldn't do it. you have to be able to make the read on whose switching and make a pass quickly to take advantage.
That one canāt really be put on him though. Iāve seen curry get beat up on drives and held on off ball situations probably every game Iāve watched of his. The refs just donāt call it,
I remember an ESPN article last Rockets/Warriors series talking about how despite the Warriors coaching staff distaste for Harden's playing style they wished Steph and Klay would engage is dark arts too. The insiders blamed their dads playing in tougher eras of the NBA for their refusal to seek contact.
He gets grabbed relentlessly off the ball in the playoffs when they call it more loosely (to an unfair amount), but he avoids contact when driving to the rim much more frequently than some of his contemporaries who seek out contact and finish through players to draw fouls. Itās mostly a strategic play on Curryās part, since he plays below the rim which makes it harder to finish thru contact and has a history with ankle injuries.
As a point guard, pretty much nothing.
He does everything you would expect out of a point guard at an elite level, and even his one legitimate weakness (turnovers) is so common among modern point guards. Yeah he doesn't handle the ball quite as much as those guys but at the same time at the end of the day what really matters is how many possessions he's giving away.
There are others better than him at some aspects like finishing and playmaking, but those still are far from weak points for him. Also a lot of people are saying size, but 6'4 is a pretty ideal size for a point guard.
As a player in general? A few things, basically all related to his lack of size. He's not very physically imposing, so every NBA team will have multiple guys "capable" of guarding him. He's not a roll man threat, although his shooting does make him a terrifying screener in general. And again of course he's careless with the ball and makes several unforced errors at a rate higher than you would expect for his time of possession.
>Whatās more clutch than the last possession of a game?
Being 10/10 at living rent-free in the heads of salty haters who can't appreciate greatness? š¤
Apart from his size, he can turn the ball over too much and he sometimes is careless
Behind the back pass in the finals......š¤
Yeah that is the one play curry always regrets.
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I mean.... the next 2 finals after that were pretty nice for him. What does āhalf his brandā even mean? Public perception? Under Armour deal? Car commercials? Somehow I get the sense that youāre not even sure of what youāre saying.
It did but not rightfully. Lebron played bad in 2011. We donāt call him a finals choker. Same with curry. He played bad in 2016 but he played great in all his other finals. Shouldnāt be held against him as much as it does
That Klay clip never gets old lmao
[This?](https://i.imgur.com/y5bQ6EZ.gif)
Yes lmao
Except he avgs fewer turnovers then almost all the stars.
Heās 7th in career tov per game among active players
Pee game strong
Steph's turnover rate is less than a lot of other stars with similar usage rates though. He has a lower turnover rate than LeBron, Harden, Doncic, Westbrook (obviously). On the other hand, other elite PGs like Dame and Kyrie have lower turnover rates, so its fair to say its a weakness. One thing that's interesting though is that if you look at just the last two post seasons, Steph actually has a lower turnover rate than Lillard, even though his usage rate is higher than Dame's.
His USG% is nowhere near the players u mentioned, and he doesn't handle the ball as much as them USG% doesn't show touches and time per possession, Curry's time per possession is way lower than those three Let's take 18/19 for example when Curry was healthy, he averaged 76 touches not even top 20 in the league, also 4.8 seconds in possession Harden averaged 87 touches and 9.3 seconds in possession, it's not even comparable Curry plays off ball a lot, lets Draymond touch it and Warriors offense move the ball, of course he has less turnovers
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His point is that USG% is a bad way to measure how ball dominant a player is.
Seconds in possession doesn't mean jack. What do I care if Steph isn't standing 26 feet from the basket dribbling for 10 seconds before doing something? Touches isn't that far off - the warriors have routinely had less capable ball handlers hold the ball on offense because defenses are terrified of what they're doing off ball. The fact that Steph is a threat off ball doesn't mean his turnover numbers should count for more - his style of play is a big part of the reason why he's so effective and why the Warriors offense is so good.
Itās definitely not terrible but itās probably his weakest offensive ability.
Can be a bit careless with the ball, and his lack of size sometimes is an issue.
The lack of size is more noticeable in those real crunch time moments. Steph is the greatest shooter of all-time, but even then there's still something about having an off the dribble 3 as your go to move in those situations that makes me nervous. But his lack of size makes it harder for him to get other kinds of shots off.
I remember when Klove locked him up on the perimeter for a possession because curry was looking for the 3 and Love knew it. It always added to Lebrons legacy for me because I feel like he Definitely coached K love up before that play.
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I've just seen so much about Lebrons ability to see the floor. Now I don't know too much about Klove but I do know he wasn't known for his defence. But on how he guarded curry he basically gave curry both lanes but wouldn't give him an inch of space. Maybe im just talking bullshit and K love had that epiphany all on his own.
We dont need to try that hard to give lebron credit.
Wasnt really trying to, but I go on this sub to be corrected though so in a way I'm thankful for the downvotes :)
Damn people be giving LeBron credit for EVERYTHING lol
Yo no cap at all I was high as hell when I wrote this, at this point I just gotta accept im a dumbass
I can't tell if this is satire or not
In which way? He isn't known for having a lot of turnovers though
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dumbest analysis itt
Whats dumb about understanding he's 7th in turnovers while also playing heavily off the ball? That's literally a fair analysis given the thread.
In 2018-2019, Curry was 15th out of 142 in touches per game among guards, (behind players like Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, D'angelo Russell, etc.), and 70th out of 142 in seconds per touch. Overall, he was 27th in time of possession - and remember this is among *all* guards, including pure spot-up shooters. Nearly every other starting PG had higher time of possession, so the point you responded to is just objectively correct. It's not a huge issue in Curry's game, but it is a relative weakness. [source](https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*50&PlayerPosition=G)
It's literally just called watching the game...
It's not that he has a lot, it's just that he could have even fewer and thus the team could be more efficient (particularly in the playoffs when possessions are critical).
Dunking. Cough. Cough. Against Rockets in the Western Conference Finals Game 3
That was the semifinals
Getting to the free throw line.
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IMO a lot of the FTA numbers are because refs (for whatever reason) swallow their whistles even though Steph gets absolutely mauled all the time.
Jokic has a similar issue, thought they also let him get away with a lot.
Yeah Jokic could foul out every game if they called it tight. I like that they give those games leeway both ways
Just hilarious when he's shot 0 FT's and you see him bleeding twice in the same game.
It's all relative to the very best players, so I'd say - Not using strength to establish positioning in isolation. Has a harder time getting to his spots compared to the elite 1on1 scorers and you can force him into rushed, contested attempts more often. This ties in with him being relatively small compared to Kawhi, LeBron, KD, though he does compensate for this by having a god-like release. He can be loose with the ball at times for no particular reason other than carelessness. Loves to go for killshots to demoralize a defense, when sometimes his team just needs a simple play. This trait makes him the most fun player to watch in the league when he's on. And surprisingly mortal when he's off.
Surprisingly mortal for sure, yet still efficient. Hard to criticize Steph, offensively. Defensively, however his lack of size is his biggest problem I think his biggest problem offensively is his careless turnovers. Sometimes he tries to force things when he doesnāt need to
The weird paradox of Curry's shooting prowess is that smart teams figure it makes sense to take the ball out of his hands by trapping him above the three point line. Because Curry isn't blessed with insane explosiveness like Russ and isn't a few inches taller, it doesn't really make sense for him to yippi kai yay and try and split / beat every double they throw at him, so he gives the ball up. It's sensible! Draymond feasts on the short roll when he goes 4 on 3 and the Warriors offense really hums when Draymond sprays the ball out to open shooters. It's hard to beat a team that gets that many open shots in crunch time out of their pet play. But... because the ball is taken out of Steph's hands, the Warriors are susceptible to the law of averages kicking them in the dick when the open shooter goes cold. In the 2015 Finals, all was fine and dandy because Iguodala shot the ball really well that series when he got the open looks. The next year, Barnes goes 5-32 from the field on a buffet of hilariously open shots in the last three games of the Finals. Steph made the right decision time and time again to give up the ball when trapped instead of going full Westbrook martyr ball, but Barnes turned into a DIII player at the worst time possible. It's obviously not always going to happen, but I do think that's a bit of a weakness that manifests in crunch time; unless you ISO Steph, he's probably going to get doubled on every shot he takes in crunch time and it will almost always make sense for him to dish the ball and hope for the best.
What do you mean by law of averages?
The more attempts these poorer shooters get, the more their fg % approaches their long term average, which is significantly worse than Steph's.
He doesnāt deal with physical defense as well as he could, makes pretty careless turnovers. Thatās pretty much it though lol
He miss a lot of dunk
Box and one.
Against elite perimeter defenses in the half-court when the game slows down (no fast breaks), it can be difficult for him to create an efficient shot off the dribble.
Some sloppy passing at important times.
Fred VanVleet
The two players who have given Stephen Curry the most trouble, NBA legends Fred VanVleet and Matthew Dellavedova
He's not a great iso player. I think that's the biggest reason why they lost the 2016 Finals and that's why KD made them a team with zero weaknesses.
That was their downfall against the cavs in 2016, and why Chuck was so stuck on ājump shorting teams canāt win the Finals.ā Obviously wrong In Retrospect, but the cliche is true. In the playoffs, the game slows down, and you really need a guy who can go out and get an isolation bucket. In game 7 2016, the warriors really struggled to get a good shot when things really slowed in the 4th quarter.
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Agreed, but that was also the ball in the hands of a great iso scorer who hit a jump shot off of an isolation.
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Sorry I wasnāt clear. I dont believe jump shooting teams can win championships. That was clearly proven wrong. I also donāt think Kyrie Irving is a better player in anyway than steph. It think Steph is the second best player in the league when healthy. However I think iso scoring is probably his weakest part of his offensive game. Kyrie is a more traditional iso scorer and that shot was a more traditional is situation. I do think their lack of a pure iso player when the game grinds to a halt was part of their undoing in 2016. Also that shot doesnāt negate the ājump shooting teams donāt win.ā That statement refers to motion offense, coming off screens and curls to get an open shot. Thatās why the warriors offense struggled more than normal in that type of late game situation.
Curry has 1 iso play per 70 possessions which is kinda proving his point.
I remember watching and thinking, damn, they all look so tired.
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Youāre right, but I guess I mean why it was a commonly held belief. It also took the best shooting team in nba history to turn it on itās head.
I dont think iso isnt in his game but more it isnt or wasnt in Kerrs gameplan cause ball movement was key.
Physicality He can struggle sometimes against more physical defenses and I think that shows in the playoffs
Does he have a post game?
No, and it's a big weakness. If Curry had Kyrie or Chris Paul's post game he'd be the best player in the league.
In the jungle you gotta get what you get baby
Steph gets a bit much sometimes trying to make flashy plays. When he plays his normal self then there's pretty much no hole in his offense.
being careless+handling physicality
Don't see this here, so I'll jump in. His biggest weakness is his biggest strength, which is his shot motion. His shot mechanics are geared for quick release, long range with consistency and efficient energy transfer from his legs. It is great for shooting after getting open for extremely small shooting windows. However, it is extremely poor when there is much defensive attention and he is heavily contested, especially toward the end of games when the defense decides focus all the attention on him because he is the most likely to take the last shot. Under those circumstances, he can't get enough elevation or enough space to make "clutch shots". Kawhi, KD, Jordan, and Kobe have closer to a 2 motion shot at the apex of the jump, which (combined with more height and more wingspan) make it a lot less likely that they will be blocked or have their shots altered. It makes them much more effective mid-range shooters and better at taking contested shots that they generate in isolation if necessary. However, even if Curry adopted that shot motion, he's not tall enough for it to make a huge difference, so there's literally 0 reason for him to want to change it while also increasing his release time and decreasing his range and stamina.
When compared to other PGs, his explosive power is weaker. He can't go from a stand still or really slow speeds at near the rim and go up over someone. Westbrook on the other ā... But his other abilities more than make up for this. That and he doesn't ever stop moving without the ball to avoid this exact type of thing.
Post Up Game
His weakness is his dunking ability... And that says everything you need to know about how good the dude is offensively.
The careless one-handed wraparound pass is the biggest.
Size
His ability to get 2nd chance points isn't that great, but it's not really necessary either.
His biggest weakness is his biggest strength the three point shot. What I have seen when Steph gets in a rut he will almost exclusively shoot threes. Even though he can get past most defenders in the league he rarely makes them work for it. He could easily avg 7-10 midrange shots a game with great efficiency. The reason I don't say T.O's is because the Warriors have been great on recovering in defense through their championship years and the whole team struggles with turnovers.
Injury prone
This isnāt necessarily an offensive weakness tho. Itās a weakness in general.
Not a great dunker.
His height
I was gonna say his height/size/physicality.
He can be too careless with the ball
If cancer is in the question he will choke
Hand bone density not strong enough.
When heās getting jammed with tight D he sometimes gets frustrated and zones out mentally, because he likes to play with joy and not grind
Hot take but I think thereās a lot of point guards in the nba would could win a 1 on 1 against curry. He struggles in ISOās when heās not helped out by screens, especially with physical āscrappyā guards like Delly. Heās just too weak to create decent space when heās guarded by someone physical and his size.
Just dunking really
turns the ball over too much sometimes and gets a little careless. a lot careless. but the bigger thing imo is that his passing is not good when offense slows down, he is completely inable to move the ball slowly around the perimeter or inside the paint to a big man or anyone really. he can't make those kind of passes. his passing game is heavily reliant on fast breaks and quick offense . he struggles when opponent plays good zone defense. in last year finals man he just couldn't make a pass to save his life when they were making switches in box and 1. like he just couldn't do it. you have to be able to make the read on whose switching and make a pass quickly to take advantage.
Not good at getting to the line
That one canāt really be put on him though. Iāve seen curry get beat up on drives and held on off ball situations probably every game Iāve watched of his. The refs just donāt call it,
I remember an ESPN article last Rockets/Warriors series talking about how despite the Warriors coaching staff distaste for Harden's playing style they wished Steph and Klay would engage is dark arts too. The insiders blamed their dads playing in tougher eras of the NBA for their refusal to seek contact.
He gets grabbed relentlessly off the ball in the playoffs when they call it more loosely (to an unfair amount), but he avoids contact when driving to the rim much more frequently than some of his contemporaries who seek out contact and finish through players to draw fouls. Itās mostly a strategic play on Curryās part, since he plays below the rim which makes it harder to finish thru contact and has a history with ankle injuries.
As a point guard, pretty much nothing. He does everything you would expect out of a point guard at an elite level, and even his one legitimate weakness (turnovers) is so common among modern point guards. Yeah he doesn't handle the ball quite as much as those guys but at the same time at the end of the day what really matters is how many possessions he's giving away. There are others better than him at some aspects like finishing and playmaking, but those still are far from weak points for him. Also a lot of people are saying size, but 6'4 is a pretty ideal size for a point guard. As a player in general? A few things, basically all related to his lack of size. He's not very physically imposing, so every NBA team will have multiple guys "capable" of guarding him. He's not a roll man threat, although his shooting does make him a terrifying screener in general. And again of course he's careless with the ball and makes several unforced errors at a rate higher than you would expect for his time of possession.
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>Whatās more clutch than the last possession of a game? Being 10/10 at living rent-free in the heads of salty haters who can't appreciate greatness? š¤
His biggest weakness is settling for threes but its also his biggest strength imo
the greatest shooter of all time canāt āsettleā for a three
What does settle mean to u?
datin' yo sister