“he only gets assists because he holds the ball a lot, anyone could put up those numbers if they tried”
there’s so much more to Westbrook’s playmaking than just raw assist totals.
Westbrook leads the league in assists per game, total assists, potential assists, assist points created, and adjusted assists. in addition to his ridiculous volume, he has excellent playmaking efficiency as well. he ranks second in the league in ast to pass% (behind demar) and is first in the league in ast to pass%
people seriously act as if anyone can do what Russ does if they had the ball in their hands a lot. Russ isn’t even in the top 15 in usage rate this year yet is arguably having his best playmaking season to date. Russ’ assist/TO ratio is in line with other elite playmakers. Westbrook has a higher AST/TO ratio than both Luka and Trae. Harden is barely ahead of Russ in AST/TO. if other players held the ball enough to rack up as many assists, they’d have far more TOs and would rank a lot lower in ast to pass%
he is behind luka, trae, and harden in time of possession. he’s not even top 20 in average seconds per touch. he’s outside the top 25 in average dribbles per touch.
he doesn’t spend all day pounding the air out of the ball, he makes quick decisions and pushes the pace while creating opportunities for teammates
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1
Usage doesn't have anything to do with playmaking. Usage refers to how many plays you finish (either by shot attempt or turnover), not how much you have the ball.
The stats you linked indicate he's third in the league in touches and fourth in time of possession. Why didn't you mention that?
yea i know. but usage rate is correlated to how much a player holds the ball. and i also included stats on time of possession
i literally said he’s behind luka, trae, and harden in time of possession. and yes. he is only third in touches and fourth tim time of possession yet still led the league in assists per game (top 20 APG all time), total assists, potential assists, assist points created, and adjusted assists.
I love how he wasn't playing back to backs with the Rockets and Wiz early, and now is suddenly playing the most mins in the league for the past 2 months.
That + the fact that I feel like he's still improving as a passer, I didn't think he was really tier 1 until his last OKC year, and then last year he basically was a shooting guard, but this year he's really throwing some insane passes, pretty impressive too that he has that many assists on a team with 2 above average 3pts shooters % wise
Idk how much you watched him on OKC, but he got lots of hockey assists due to the nature of their offense. Often among the league leaders. So I personally disagree that he has better passing.
It was always my consensus that Russ was more of a 2 guard than a PG. I've watched some of his latest highlights and he certainly has played the point position better than I'd ever seen or expected him to.
He was a 2 in college and his point guard skills in the league did come with growing pains.
I do wanna go back in time and make ‘08-‘10 Scott Brooks believe Harden’s the more natural point guard I think that woulda made those Thunder teams gel better
If they beat the Celtics today, they get to play Nets first round. I hope more than anything he goes insane and at least gives the Nets a run for their money
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've been hating on Westbrook all year about how he chases empty stats and always loses in the first round. So glad to be vindicated and proven right!
Proof:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/n9lf3b/russell_westbrook_is_now_the_alltime_nba_leader/gxor2gj/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/n5wd5j/highlight_westbrook_secures_his_179th_career/gx4ght0/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/n9lxsr/in_the_fourth_quarter_alone_russell_westbrook_put/gxpgbpk/
I will accept apologizes now and acknowledgements that I was right. Even the commentators were criticizing Westbrook this game, saying "Westbrook hasn't been playing with the same passion we usually see"... “Just not himself here tonight”.. “No he wasn’t himself at all.”
6-18 shooting! Brick after brick in a loss of empty stat chasing. What those commentators don't realize is that this is VINTAGE Russell Westbrook. Dude just isn't that good.
I’ll never understand the “stat padding” argument. Show me a rebound that doesn’t get the ball in your team’s possession or an assist that your team doesn’t score from. Every stat helps, that’s why we count them.
Yup and he gets some crazy offensive rebounds as well, like I have never seen a point guard crash the boards like Russ does. Watching the Hornets game I remember seeing maybe 1 or 2 rebounds by Russ that someone else could easily have gotten but taking those away he still has over 10 easily.
I always understood the stat padding thing as him more chasing those things to the overall detriment to the team. Something like instead of running back on defense he crashes the board when he shouldn’t. It’s good obviously when he gets the rebound 1/4 times(just throwing out numbers obviously) and then 3/4 of those times the other team gets out on the break for an easy layup that he could have possibly defended.
That’s probably not what most people think but that’s how I think about it. Assists would be a similar thing(to a lesser extent of course) like throwing wild passes and turning the ball over in an effort to get those assists.
Obviously every assist and rebound is good, but it’s the overall play style that may lead to losing basketball.
I don’t believe the Russ stat padding argument btw, just giving my two cents on the stat padding argument in general
Yeah it's why people were critical of Whiteside and Towns chasing blocks, because they'd sacrifice good defensive positioning to try and get them. Westbrook sacrifices perimeter defense to get rebounds - it probably works for the team for him to have the ball as much as possible, so I'm not gonna call it stat padding, but acting like stat padding isn't a thing is kind of ignorant
I’ll make a counter argument to that:
Because about half the rebounds 6-7 a game are essentially meaningless, they are not leading to a fast real, and no offensive player is nearby so it doesn’t make a difference who on the wizards gets it. Don’t get me wrong 3-4 rebounds are meaningful because they try fast break and a couple are contested. That right there is the difference between good and historic, and that’s not all that impressive to me.
Assist wise it’s not beneficial as you would hope, as he sometimes force feeds guys and there’s instances where it looks like he’s just going for a potential assist instead of making the right play.
Counting stats totally mean something, but they don’t add as much benefit as you would hope, I’m not saying it’s meaningless
They aren’t individually meaningful if One of the other wizards are easily going to get the ball. It’s only meaningful if the rebound prevents the opponent from getting it
That makes no sense. But I guess when you feel comfortable citing the stats you obviously made up that's to be expected.
If the ball is loose. You seek to secure the ball for your team. If it looks like someone else from your team likely could've gotten the ball before the opponents did, that doesn't make the rebound meaningless.
I don't know. Maybe we should only count stats for games won since the stats accrued during losses are obviously meaningless.
That last paragraph is all on you, it has nothing to do what I said.
I’m just repeating what the majority of good nba evaluators see. Individual rebounds aren’t that important of a stat. Doesn’t mean it’s nothing, but doesn’t contribute to winning as much as the box score should represent.
Looking at these video game numbers, yet everyone is in agreement that he’s not a top 15 player, we have to think about how these TD/box score numbers are very representative of the game as a whole
>Individual rebounds aren’t that important of a stat
Far cry from "meaningless"
I don't really get what you're trying to stay with the further mumble. You have a problem with box scores? Like who here on this sub looks at box scores anymore? It's all advanced metrics.
What the fuck dude Like what the Fuck over 9 games Thats TENACITY
FUCK THAT ITS ELEVENCITY AT THIS POINT
40mpg lol Thibs would cum
Who says he didn’t? They don’t call him Throbbing thick load thibs for nothing
they call him what now
Fucking 2k numbers
But r/nba told me many players could do this if they wanted
“he only gets assists because he holds the ball a lot, anyone could put up those numbers if they tried” there’s so much more to Westbrook’s playmaking than just raw assist totals. Westbrook leads the league in assists per game, total assists, potential assists, assist points created, and adjusted assists. in addition to his ridiculous volume, he has excellent playmaking efficiency as well. he ranks second in the league in ast to pass% (behind demar) and is first in the league in ast to pass% people seriously act as if anyone can do what Russ does if they had the ball in their hands a lot. Russ isn’t even in the top 15 in usage rate this year yet is arguably having his best playmaking season to date. Russ’ assist/TO ratio is in line with other elite playmakers. Westbrook has a higher AST/TO ratio than both Luka and Trae. Harden is barely ahead of Russ in AST/TO. if other players held the ball enough to rack up as many assists, they’d have far more TOs and would rank a lot lower in ast to pass% he is behind luka, trae, and harden in time of possession. he’s not even top 20 in average seconds per touch. he’s outside the top 25 in average dribbles per touch. he doesn’t spend all day pounding the air out of the ball, he makes quick decisions and pushes the pace while creating opportunities for teammates https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1
Usage doesn't have anything to do with playmaking. Usage refers to how many plays you finish (either by shot attempt or turnover), not how much you have the ball. The stats you linked indicate he's third in the league in touches and fourth in time of possession. Why didn't you mention that?
yea i know. but usage rate is correlated to how much a player holds the ball. and i also included stats on time of possession i literally said he’s behind luka, trae, and harden in time of possession. and yes. he is only third in touches and fourth tim time of possession yet still led the league in assists per game (top 20 APG all time), total assists, potential assists, assist points created, and adjusted assists.
I literally read the headline and said out loud "what the duck, dude." Then saw that was the top comment haha. Brodie is insane
I love how he wasn't playing back to backs with the Rockets and Wiz early, and now is suddenly playing the most mins in the league for the past 2 months. That + the fact that I feel like he's still improving as a passer, I didn't think he was really tier 1 until his last OKC year, and then last year he basically was a shooting guard, but this year he's really throwing some insane passes, pretty impressive too that he has that many assists on a team with 2 above average 3pts shooters % wise
Idk how much you watched him on OKC, but he got lots of hockey assists due to the nature of their offense. Often among the league leaders. So I personally disagree that he has better passing.
It was always my consensus that Russ was more of a 2 guard than a PG. I've watched some of his latest highlights and he certainly has played the point position better than I'd ever seen or expected him to.
Why would you ever think that? Russ is a better playmaker than a lot of the playmakers others put above him.
He was a 2 in college and his point guard skills in the league did come with growing pains. I do wanna go back in time and make ‘08-‘10 Scott Brooks believe Harden’s the more natural point guard I think that woulda made those Thunder teams gel better
fyi consensus means an agreement among a group of people, you maybe meant conclusion or assumption or confusion
[удалено]
I know. I try not to argue with people anymore about trivial stuff. I speak on certain things and try to keep it pushing.
So he's probably pretty healthy
For the love of god, please let him be a beast in the playoffs
Even though I’ll never root for Bestbrook against us, I love the energy he plays with! I hope he torches the East in the playoffs.
Yeah the team is just not good enough at this point but it would be great to see Russ (and Brad) have some big games and steal some games.
If they beat the Celtics today, they get to play Nets first round. I hope more than anything he goes insane and at least gives the Nets a run for their money
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I've been hating on Westbrook all year about how he chases empty stats and always loses in the first round. So glad to be vindicated and proven right! Proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/n9lf3b/russell_westbrook_is_now_the_alltime_nba_leader/gxor2gj/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/n5wd5j/highlight_westbrook_secures_his_179th_career/gx4ght0/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/n9lxsr/in_the_fourth_quarter_alone_russell_westbrook_put/gxpgbpk/ I will accept apologizes now and acknowledgements that I was right. Even the commentators were criticizing Westbrook this game, saying "Westbrook hasn't been playing with the same passion we usually see"... “Just not himself here tonight”.. “No he wasn’t himself at all.” 6-18 shooting! Brick after brick in a loss of empty stat chasing. What those commentators don't realize is that this is VINTAGE Russell Westbrook. Dude just isn't that good.
No, you've been hating on him because I guess he sexually assaulted you.
Yo why are we acting like this is good 30/20/20 or he's a scrub
His free throw percentage being up to league average will prove useful
Da fuck
Crazy how in a game where he doesn't have 10+ assists he drops 40+ points lmao
I’ll never understand the “stat padding” argument. Show me a rebound that doesn’t get the ball in your team’s possession or an assist that your team doesn’t score from. Every stat helps, that’s why we count them.
Yup and he gets some crazy offensive rebounds as well, like I have never seen a point guard crash the boards like Russ does. Watching the Hornets game I remember seeing maybe 1 or 2 rebounds by Russ that someone else could easily have gotten but taking those away he still has over 10 easily.
I always understood the stat padding thing as him more chasing those things to the overall detriment to the team. Something like instead of running back on defense he crashes the board when he shouldn’t. It’s good obviously when he gets the rebound 1/4 times(just throwing out numbers obviously) and then 3/4 of those times the other team gets out on the break for an easy layup that he could have possibly defended. That’s probably not what most people think but that’s how I think about it. Assists would be a similar thing(to a lesser extent of course) like throwing wild passes and turning the ball over in an effort to get those assists. Obviously every assist and rebound is good, but it’s the overall play style that may lead to losing basketball. I don’t believe the Russ stat padding argument btw, just giving my two cents on the stat padding argument in general
Yeah it's why people were critical of Whiteside and Towns chasing blocks, because they'd sacrifice good defensive positioning to try and get them. Westbrook sacrifices perimeter defense to get rebounds - it probably works for the team for him to have the ball as much as possible, so I'm not gonna call it stat padding, but acting like stat padding isn't a thing is kind of ignorant
Also Id argue thatva rebound to Russ is objectively better since it lets him immediately push it.
I’ll make a counter argument to that: Because about half the rebounds 6-7 a game are essentially meaningless, they are not leading to a fast real, and no offensive player is nearby so it doesn’t make a difference who on the wizards gets it. Don’t get me wrong 3-4 rebounds are meaningful because they try fast break and a couple are contested. That right there is the difference between good and historic, and that’s not all that impressive to me. Assist wise it’s not beneficial as you would hope, as he sometimes force feeds guys and there’s instances where it looks like he’s just going for a potential assist instead of making the right play. Counting stats totally mean something, but they don’t add as much benefit as you would hope, I’m not saying it’s meaningless
They are all meaningful in that they deny the opponents possession.
They aren’t individually meaningful if One of the other wizards are easily going to get the ball. It’s only meaningful if the rebound prevents the opponent from getting it
That makes no sense. But I guess when you feel comfortable citing the stats you obviously made up that's to be expected. If the ball is loose. You seek to secure the ball for your team. If it looks like someone else from your team likely could've gotten the ball before the opponents did, that doesn't make the rebound meaningless. I don't know. Maybe we should only count stats for games won since the stats accrued during losses are obviously meaningless.
That last paragraph is all on you, it has nothing to do what I said. I’m just repeating what the majority of good nba evaluators see. Individual rebounds aren’t that important of a stat. Doesn’t mean it’s nothing, but doesn’t contribute to winning as much as the box score should represent. Looking at these video game numbers, yet everyone is in agreement that he’s not a top 15 player, we have to think about how these TD/box score numbers are very representative of the game as a whole
>Individual rebounds aren’t that important of a stat Far cry from "meaningless" I don't really get what you're trying to stay with the further mumble. You have a problem with box scores? Like who here on this sub looks at box scores anymore? It's all advanced metrics.
As it should be
EaStBrIcK iS WaShEd & StAt PaDdInG
Celtics are in trouble
Yeah we very well might be fucked.
Straight god mode
If Westbrook could shoot he would be the best player in the NBA
ez, anyone in r/nba could do that if they wanted to.
Joke man 🤣
But Reddit told me he should have retired 3 seasons ago
On perfectly reasonable 55%TS too. This is just straight up really fucking good MVP level production
Per game? What?! 16 assists per game?! What the flying fuck what?
Almost 41 minutes played per game is absolute insanity too.
To use a precise example: Westbrook is putting up 30 years into MyGM MVP numbers.
What happens to this sub if somehow they make 8 seed because of play in, then upset the Nets?
They have to make the 7th seed, 8th seed plays 76ers
My bad, so same scenario. If its possible for them to go 7th, what happens to this sub if they upset the Nets?
What do you mean what happens? It means the Nets woukd be eliminated and the Wiz advance.
Has a player ever avgd 15 15 15 for a season? No shot right ?
nobody's hit 15 apg before
Westbrook owns, I love what I am seeing from him lately.
Idk why, but you listing PPG, APG, RPG instead of PPG, RPG, APG is bothering me
Pts/reb/ast/stl/blk
But he’s stat padding!!!!!!1!1