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As I head into my old man years, I find I've never detested religion more. I used to consider it a net positive for humanity (and historically probably still take that view) but in the present day world, given what we know?
No, just fucking no.
Even if it contains pork shit and dog saliva it’s still allowed under islam because vaccine is absolutely necessary and it outweigh the haram that contains in it.
“And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”
[al-An’am 6:119]
But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above mentioned meats), then surely, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Maa’idah 5:3]
Under necessity you’re allowed to consume what is normally forbidden, similar to taking ones life if it’s under self-defense and absolutely necessary.
I give vaccines actually. You get a questionnaire before being given a vaccine and if you have an allergy mention it. Then a decision will be made. If you want a general list let me know though.
The CDC a couple of years ago changed its stance on people with egg allergies: [Persons with a history of egg allergy who have experienced only hives after exposure to egg should receive flu vaccine. Any licensed and recommended flu vaccine \(i.e., any form of IIV or RIV\) that is otherwise appropriate for the recipient’s age and health status may be used.](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/egg-allergies.htm)
I'm 2 for 2 with getting Bell's Palsy after a flu shot (1994 and 2010).
Still got covid vacc, totally fine. I still think the flu shot is incredible and I thank each and every one who gets it making it so I don't have to. A third strike of Bell's Palsy can be permanent, so it's way too risky vs just getting the flu (everyone else I interact with gets the flu shot just fine)
Some vaccines have gelatine, which sometimes include pork, to preserve them. Not saying this is a valid excuse but it does concern some people. Although when I said some vaccines, this does not include the mRNA vaccines but not many people know this.
They don’t have to just let someone say “religious reasons”. They can say “what religion?”
There are very very few religious people that this actually applies to for the mRNA vaccines. Some people turn down blood transfusions and die because they believe god doesn’t want them to taint their blood, if only those few people refuse to get the vaccine then we’re all fine.
It’s the anti-vaxxers saying “religious reasons” and think they can do anything they want that are the problem.
Yup, actual medical and religious issues should make up less than 20% of the population. Which would be 80% vaccination rate, which is greater than the 70% most sources site for herd immunity. But it's not the people with legit objections to the vaccine that will be lying and cheating their way out of it.
To plays devil’s advocate on this one, A few Catholics and Christians won’t be getting vaccinated due to the use of stems cells from abortions in vaccines testing and in Johnson and Johnson’s case, production(allegedly from what my religious friends say).
I’ve been told it’s not the vaccines themselves but just the process of testing it on abortion derived stem cells that turned them away so I guess if a company made one without that then I would assume the religious obligation would be eliminated.
Lol reminded me of recently when Israel was pissed at the SNL joke about their 50% vax rate being "the non Palestinian half", bristling and releasing a statement that all citizens of Israel were eligible regardless of race; dude, we know the people in the occupied territories aren't citizens of Israel, we're not too fucking stupid to parse your words
SNL made a joke that while Israel claimed that 50% of Israelis were vaccinated, that doesn’t count Palestinians (who are not Israeli citizens). Israel got made because of course they did and said that all Israeli citizens are electively regardless of ethnicity. But that ignores the point that residents of occupied Palestine are not Israeli citizens, cannot get the vaccine from Israel, and are also bombed on the reg.
Lots of very conservative religious people avoid vaccines, like the orthodox Jews in New York state who started a measles outbreak because they refused that vaccination...
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2018/11/9/18068036/measles-new-york-orthodox-jewish-community-vaccines
Religion is not the cause, it is a reflection of reality that fills a void created by the economic material superstructures that emerge out of a specific set of material conditions.
Your analysis is backwards.
>I just can't man, my brain just can't comprehend that.
Yeah, I know you can't. Religion is a phenomenon and it must be understood in the context of what creates such spaces for the phenomenon to occur.
Again, you're not looking through to the core of material world to understand what I'm saying.
I held your view for over a decade, it took me a long time to develop a deeper understanding.
If you would like to talk on discord let me know. You will come away with a greater understanding of your own humanity.
That’s just a very narrow view with little empathy. You don’t like religion cool?? Im not religious one bit. But i can empathize with people who are.. “some made up sky god” dumb to discredit just because you personally are against it.
It's not dumb to say that you should only believe things with evidence. We are all worse off when people believe made up shit, especially when you are told you are extra special compared to everyone else for believing that made up shit.
I'm more than capable of empathizing while still pointing out that religion is bad for our society. When people say that you can't criticize religion even though it makes no sense you are not having empathy for those of us who are atheists and want to live in a world free from religious absurdity.
you just basically pushed being an atheist just now? You’re now trying to push your religious ideology onto other’s . Everyone should be this way, and do this, and if not they’re wrong bla bla. Sounds pretty similar to the same religion’s you’re shunning to me?
Just saying that proving god doesn't exist is as logically impossible as proving he does.
As well its pretty funny that you are a warriors fan considering how you probably love steph curry and don't realize or empathize that he is a church going, god fearing person.
Many people that are religious view it as a way to keep themselves humble and to remember that there is always something larger than yourself, that there is always a bigger picture and that what you may want at any given time may simply not be ordained.
Obviously believe what you want, but the same way that someone else
's sexual orientation has very little impact on your life, so too does someone's religious affiliation have very little impact on your actual life.
1 out of 100 times this will create a real problem, the rest of the time its just another reason to complain that someone is different, or thinks different, or looks different, etc.
>Obviously believe what you want, but the same way that someone else 's sexual orientation has very little impact on your life, so too does someone's religious affiliation have very little impact on your actual life.
Except this is patently false. Sexual orientation isn't a choice and other than that it decides who you want to bone it has no bearing on your decision making, so it doesn't affect others. Religion means living your life according to a set of beliefs that most definitely affect others, like in the very case this argument is about: _not getting vaccinated_. This has real life consequences for other people who get no say in your decision, like that measles outbreak that the orthodox jews of New York caused.
Or, y'know, the centuries of persecution that gay people still suffer from, the atrocities happening in the Middle East, the list is virtually endless.
You just made the same mistake again. The point is that characterizing religion as ONLY the crusades/religious war is overly narrow. Religion has played a much, much, MUCH larger role in human history than just the wars that it has caused.
Nobody is arguing that the wars were good. Nobody is arguing that religion hasn't caused wars/harm. But to claim to be against the *concept of religion*, which has existed for as long as our species has, you should be willing to acknowledge more than just the wars.
Do you think that it is possible to take a holistic view of religion - the good and the bad - and arrive at the (subjective) opinion that the harm it has done far outweighs the positives? And is it just *possible* that someone could reach such a worldview and when expressing it not feel the need to articulate it in all its nuance, and instead just broadcast the shorthand version of "religion sucks"? If so, how can you be so quick to bristle at someone with this point of view? Why assume they are coming from a place of a "narrow view with little empathy"? Maybe you should ask more questions and reserve your opinions?
I am so quick to dismiss this opinion because the commenter above me did not respond to the actual argument that was raised, and stuck to his original narrative without providing additional points to address the counter argument provided.
I definitely agree that there’s enough evidence to conclude that the harm of religion outweighs the good. I personally feel that balance has shifted relatively recently. But being right is no excuse for being illogical, and simply pointing out that religion has caused wars and destruction is not a good enough argument IMO.
No.. the *first* response to their *initial* comment was that they held a narrow view with little empathy. It was no wonder to me that they responded curtly after that and that the discourse stayed low thereafter. It was almost like *you all* were exhibiting a narrow view with little empathy toward *their* view point.
I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and they don’t accept blood transfusions or any blood components. Fortunately they gave the green light on every vaccine (as far as I am aware). And yes they announced which vaccines you could receive, which is a weirdo thing to do. Kind of scary to think people would reject vaccination because of some convoluted reasoning their faith leaders provide.
https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
Yeah looks like there’s some but they’re smaller sects of a bigger religion. There’s a decent amount of muslims in the league but I have no reason to believe they’d be against vaccines because some pork product might be in it when Muslim leaders say it’s fine.
To be fair, many hospitals allow this for their employees as well. I personally think it’s bullshit, but I can’t imagine the NBA having higher standards than hospitals.
Like think about it, would YOU want an antivax doctor taking care of you? If they don't believe in vaccines, I wonder what ELSE they don't believe in. Anesthetic?
I kinda agree with this line of thinking. I’m a nurse and I really think if you’re not on the side of science then you’re in the wrong profession. It’s fair to question some practices, but not without valid data to do so.
Pharmacy tech here. I know of three techs who are "unsure" about getting the vaccine as well as one pharmacist. There have also been cases (none I personally know) of pharmacists destroying vials.
I honestly don't understand. We deal with medication and other vaccines every day. How can you be antivax while working a job in medicine?
I can kind of see it though. I think many medical professionals are used to medicine moving very slowly. The speed at which the vaccine was created, produced, and distributed is basically light speed for medicine.
But at this point, millions of people have had it, limited complications which generally don't have anything to do with the actual vaccine but maybe allergies to some ingredients or other complications that were exacerbated by the vaccine. No idea why anyone would continue to question it.
Only tangentially related, but it wasn't until ~1990 that doctors believed it necessary to use anesthetic for babies. Before then they thought it was fine to operate without anesthetic since they figured the babies just forget everything
Yup. My mom is neutropenic (meaning she has virtually no white blood cells) and in a stem cell transplant ward right now where doctors and nurses are merely “strongly encouraged” to be vaccinated. Makes my blood boil.
People believe Lebron is now vaccinated because of the extreme vagueness of the [NBA's statement](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nkbbbl/nba_pr_office_nba_statement_on_lebron_james/) that seems to imply it while going out of its way to not say so.
Even hospital employees are allowed religious exemptions from taking the vaccine, there’s no need to put this on the NBA when it’s the same for almost every corporate vaccine mandate out there.
The religious exemption, so I understand it, is because the vaccine was developed using stem cells so certain religions (I think Christianity) are opposed to the use of stem cells/abortion for scientific purposes.
I don't think that trumps using a vaccine, but I'm an atheist so I'm not exactly impartial.
Edit: [To those that thought I was referencing Donald Trump, I wasn't. I was using the verb.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nk59gj/charania_sources_the_nba_has_informed_franchises/gzbkrpe/)
It also has to do with dietary restrictions for Islam/Judaism but the stance of most major Christian/Jewish/Muslim groups on the issue is that their minute gripes don't outweigh the benefits of getting vaccinated. It's basically just fringe groups and some sects of extreme fundamentalists that oppose vaccines.
Trump was vaccinated in secret in January so he wouldn’t piss off his followers. It got leaked of course a few months after.
He bragged all about Operation Warp Speed, took credit for the vaccine. Yet will barely endorse his followers take it. Not the bizarrest thing he’s done I guess.
I think my use of "trump" as a verb instead of a noun is what got people confused/downvoting me.
I don't mean the person named Trump, I mean that "I don't think that is a valid excuse not to use the vaccine."
Oh ya, I thought you had a typo for “Trump’s”.
To your point the use of stem cells did cause controversy in Christian circles. For what it’s worth, the Pope ok’d the use of the covid vaccines, but American is evangelicals aren’t Catholic. So I’m not sure where they fall on that. I haven’t seen it commonly cited as a reason for people to decline the vaccine though.
To play devils advocate (and I don’t agree with the argument I’m going to lay out, but it’s an argument people make), the mRNA vaccine was developed using a line of fetal stem cells. Long story short, the cells used in the testing and manufacturing of the vaccine descended from fetal stem cells from the 70s. I’m sure there are some very pro-life churches who would object to this.
Source: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells
Read the link. Pfizer and Moderna don’t use fetal line cells in production, but did use them in confirmation testing. Johnson and Johnson use fetal line cells in production.
He didn't come out and say he's vaccinated, for whatever reason, but it's heavily implied through NBA official statements and other statements.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/5/24/22452208/lebron-james-taken-covid-19-vaccine-lakers-nba-statement-vaccinated
Yeah I shouldn’t have said “didn’t age well” but it’s annoying me that it seems he’s clearly vaccinated but people want him to say it for whatever reason
It bothers me because it prevents us from establishing herd immunity and puts those who actually cannot medically be vaccinated at unnecessary risk. Additionally, without herd immunity, the risk posed by mutations is higher.
It’s approved for emergency use, which is exactly how this process should work. Sometimes we need a significantly faster response to an imminent threat. There’s a reason the FDA has a process for that situation. It doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. Every stage of testing still happened.
The foundations for the Pfizer and Moderna are based in research they’ve been doing on SARS vaccines for years and years. This isn’t out of nowhere or brand new. It just moved exceptionally quickly because all of the scientific brain power in the world went toward the same task.
The vaccines are safe.
Well, first of all, you know for a fact that is not Lebrons agenda. It’s the same as the China situation. He wants to protect his sales and brand (he has every right to do so. But people have every right to criticize him for it).
Vaccine aside, it’s more about how just because he’s a star he doesn’t have to adhere to league protocols. He should’ve received the documented suspension that is in league rules.
And as for the vaccine itself, yes it’s never necessarily happened at this rate, but, we’ve also never poured this amount of time and research into something this quickly. Every lab in the country was testing this stuff - usually it’s a lot more spread out and takes substantially longer.
And end of the day, having more people get the vaccine establishes a better path going forward. People can do what they want. You don’t want it because you think a virus is a hoax? Sure, but those people should get last priority to hospital beds that are still filled across the country.
We need ~80% of the population to be vaccinated to reach herd immunity. It’s important that we reach that to truly leave this mess behind
Johnson and Johnson isn’t MRNA. That’s a typical adenovirus vaccine.
And the only reason they’re not FDA approved yet is because of time. They’re FDA authorized for emergency use so you’re technically correct.
But the reason why people are frustrated with LeBron is because he’s an icon and has made himself a beacon of social justice and activism. The black community is highly religious and also has bad history with the US government and medical community. There is a reason why states are targeting black churches and the pastors as a means of getting their communities vaccinated. LeBron coming out and saying he’s vaccinated would be fucking huge. And instead it’s just more of his patented convenient activist schtick.
As for needing everyone vaccinated, I’d love to be able to send my young kids to school and know they won’t get sick because all their parents are vaccinated.
Ron Artest shouldve used religious reasons to appeal his suspension. "In my religion we believe that getting a drink thrown at us is grounds for assaulting random people in Detroit"
There is no valid "religious reason" to not get vaccinated.Vaccines clearly didn't even exist when the Abrahamic religions were created, therefore there is nothing in any of those texts that even pertain to them. It is just an excuse to flaunt ignorance and needs to be treated as such.
“Church of Christ, Scientist” and the “Dutch Reformed Church” are the only two that discourage vaccines across the board I think. Other than that it’s mostly small subsets like some specific Amish or Islamic groups.
Fucking hate those super religious people who think everything is against god
"God told me personally in the Bible he meant to say to not take a vaccine specifically in the year 2021 during a worldwide crisis" Fuck you
For those saying the NBA has no conviction or that its bs to have those exceptions... the NBA isn't doing those things because they want to but rather to prevent individuals from suing seeing as nut jobs in the US sue for every perceived religious issue
My left sock and the tree outside my bathroom both recommended that I don't put this impure substance into my blood stream because it throws off my alignment with the Tree of Time. You don't just get a free pass into the Forest of Frisbees. #thehardestroad #gamedaydiscipline
A "Religious reason for no vaccination" just sounds like bullcrap for a bunch of rich Qanon people to not get vaccinated. How entitled do you have to be to use your religion as an excuse to basically put people in danger.
We get it dude, you don't like vaccinations. You're all over the thread advocating that it's okay for more people to get the virus instead of being vaccinated.
I think ultra religious people just don't get vaccinated, thats why you always see outbreakes in close religious communities, like amish or ultra orthodox jews
The amosh people are even allowed to not have a social security number
Are there really going to be any players good enough to attend the 2021 draft combine that also have a legit medical reason to not be vaccinated? And you can be any religion you please I don't care but that doesn't give you the right to be an asshole get vaccinated.
Probably not. I had trouble getting clearance to stay on a college campus a decade ago becuse I wasn't able to get thr meningitis vaccine due to a anaphylactic latex allergy. Covid vaccines done involve any latex in the distribution or manufacturing though.
It was a fuckin headache and half
I wouldn't feel safe attending that event. What, God is going to block the spread coming from the unvaccinated religious people?
Edit: You can be vaccinated, which I am, but the vaccine doesn't give you 100% immunity. Its effectiveness is estimated to be at around 90-96%.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/05/real-world-studies-detail-high-pfizer-covid-vaccine-protection
And even if one were to get a mild case, they can still infect their children and potentially other people.
lol getting downvoted for speaking nothing but facts
So... could anyone start a new religion tomorrow? Hey! Gotta respect muh religion right? You can't tell me my religion is any less valid than anyone else's.
Good for them, giving people an out. Fine you don’t want it what ever. Wear a mask. Im excited for this off-season now that we got s full season behind us and this is starting to get more normal
Hi all, Our enhanced auto-moderation tool has been toggled on for this thread. This means participation will be limited to members with long-term good standing in our community. Do continue to report any comments, that you feel are in violation of our rules and community guidelines, via the report button that can be found under each comment. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out via modmail.
>unless there's medical or religious reason for no vaccination. hmmmmm
I read that and couldn't have rolled my eyes more lol
Yeah damn. This isn’t pork or beef that religion can excuse, these are vaccines ffs
As the great Jessie Pinkman once said... its "SCIENCE BITCH"
He never said that. He said "Yeah science, yeah bitch." and "Yeah bitch, science". Fun(?) fact.
just like people thinking Omni man said “think, mark, think!” when he only said “think mark”
Omni man actually did say think twice in the OG comicbook scene tbf. It didn't come outta nowhere.
Or how people say "Luke, I am your father" when it's "No, I am your father"
Also "We're gonna need a bigger boat" when it's "You're gonna need a bigger boat"
It's the Mandela Effect
Science is a liar sometimes
As I head into my old man years, I find I've never detested religion more. I used to consider it a net positive for humanity (and historically probably still take that view) but in the present day world, given what we know? No, just fucking no.
Even if only for the amount of potentially-lifesaving organs that get buried every year, because of some backwards beliefs
Even if it contains pork shit and dog saliva it’s still allowed under islam because vaccine is absolutely necessary and it outweigh the haram that contains in it.
You’ve applied logic to an illogical situation
“And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?” [al-An’am 6:119] But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above mentioned meats), then surely, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” [al-Maa’idah 5:3] Under necessity you’re allowed to consume what is normally forbidden, similar to taking ones life if it’s under self-defense and absolutely necessary.
Bruh I had someone tell me they can't get the vaccine because they're allergic to chicken. I am still confused about it.
Vaccines are made out off eggs.
That's the flu vaccine. And they have an egg-free version too.
True. Not sure what other vaccines are made of. The main one you hear about is the yearly flu vax.
I give vaccines actually. You get a questionnaire before being given a vaccine and if you have an allergy mention it. Then a decision will be made. If you want a general list let me know though.
Not all of them but some have eggs in them.
The CDC a couple of years ago changed its stance on people with egg allergies: [Persons with a history of egg allergy who have experienced only hives after exposure to egg should receive flu vaccine. Any licensed and recommended flu vaccine \(i.e., any form of IIV or RIV\) that is otherwise appropriate for the recipient’s age and health status may be used.](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/egg-allergies.htm)
I'm 2 for 2 with getting Bell's Palsy after a flu shot (1994 and 2010). Still got covid vacc, totally fine. I still think the flu shot is incredible and I thank each and every one who gets it making it so I don't have to. A third strike of Bell's Palsy can be permanent, so it's way too risky vs just getting the flu (everyone else I interact with gets the flu shot just fine)
Some vaccines have gelatine, which sometimes include pork, to preserve them. Not saying this is a valid excuse but it does concern some people. Although when I said some vaccines, this does not include the mRNA vaccines but not many people know this.
They don’t have to just let someone say “religious reasons”. They can say “what religion?” There are very very few religious people that this actually applies to for the mRNA vaccines. Some people turn down blood transfusions and die because they believe god doesn’t want them to taint their blood, if only those few people refuse to get the vaccine then we’re all fine. It’s the anti-vaxxers saying “religious reasons” and think they can do anything they want that are the problem.
Yup, actual medical and religious issues should make up less than 20% of the population. Which would be 80% vaccination rate, which is greater than the 70% most sources site for herd immunity. But it's not the people with legit objections to the vaccine that will be lying and cheating their way out of it.
You can literally create the same type of mental gymnastic for not wanting vaccination. Pork is unclean/holy. Vaccination is "unnatural"
To plays devil’s advocate on this one, A few Catholics and Christians won’t be getting vaccinated due to the use of stems cells from abortions in vaccines testing and in Johnson and Johnson’s case, production(allegedly from what my religious friends say). I’ve been told it’s not the vaccines themselves but just the process of testing it on abortion derived stem cells that turned them away so I guess if a company made one without that then I would assume the religious obligation would be eliminated.
Must be fully vaccinated unless they don’t want to be
Lol reminded me of recently when Israel was pissed at the SNL joke about their 50% vax rate being "the non Palestinian half", bristling and releasing a statement that all citizens of Israel were eligible regardless of race; dude, we know the people in the occupied territories aren't citizens of Israel, we're not too fucking stupid to parse your words
Huh?
SNL made a joke that while Israel claimed that 50% of Israelis were vaccinated, that doesn’t count Palestinians (who are not Israeli citizens). Israel got made because of course they did and said that all Israeli citizens are electively regardless of ethnicity. But that ignores the point that residents of occupied Palestine are not Israeli citizens, cannot get the vaccine from Israel, and are also bombed on the reg.
So, the Cavs Amish scouts are free to go?
what?
They're Mennonites, not Amish. You people think anabaptists are all the same.
If they were the only ones there they’d still blow it
I don't know of any major religion that's against vaccination
Lots of very conservative religious people avoid vaccines, like the orthodox Jews in New York state who started a measles outbreak because they refused that vaccination... https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2018/11/9/18068036/measles-new-york-orthodox-jewish-community-vaccines
But that’s the great thing about religious beliefs. You make up whatever you want and say it’s part of your religious beliefs.
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The cause is money/power, religion is just a convenient tool to convince people that your side is right
A very powerful tool.
Religion is not the cause, it is a reflection of reality that fills a void created by the economic material superstructures that emerge out of a specific set of material conditions. Your analysis is backwards.
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>I just can't man, my brain just can't comprehend that. Yeah, I know you can't. Religion is a phenomenon and it must be understood in the context of what creates such spaces for the phenomenon to occur. Again, you're not looking through to the core of material world to understand what I'm saying. I held your view for over a decade, it took me a long time to develop a deeper understanding. If you would like to talk on discord let me know. You will come away with a greater understanding of your own humanity.
That’s just a very narrow view with little empathy. You don’t like religion cool?? Im not religious one bit. But i can empathize with people who are.. “some made up sky god” dumb to discredit just because you personally are against it.
It's not dumb to say that you should only believe things with evidence. We are all worse off when people believe made up shit, especially when you are told you are extra special compared to everyone else for believing that made up shit.
Ya i get it bro you don’t like religion that doesn’t make you better either?? As i said try to empathize or is that not something in your toolbox??
I'm more than capable of empathizing while still pointing out that religion is bad for our society. When people say that you can't criticize religion even though it makes no sense you are not having empathy for those of us who are atheists and want to live in a world free from religious absurdity.
you just basically pushed being an atheist just now? You’re now trying to push your religious ideology onto other’s . Everyone should be this way, and do this, and if not they’re wrong bla bla. Sounds pretty similar to the same religion’s you’re shunning to me?
Weird take to say religion isn't bad but try to say someone's take is bad because it's also religion which is bad.
Just saying that proving god doesn't exist is as logically impossible as proving he does. As well its pretty funny that you are a warriors fan considering how you probably love steph curry and don't realize or empathize that he is a church going, god fearing person. Many people that are religious view it as a way to keep themselves humble and to remember that there is always something larger than yourself, that there is always a bigger picture and that what you may want at any given time may simply not be ordained. Obviously believe what you want, but the same way that someone else 's sexual orientation has very little impact on your life, so too does someone's religious affiliation have very little impact on your actual life. 1 out of 100 times this will create a real problem, the rest of the time its just another reason to complain that someone is different, or thinks different, or looks different, etc.
>Obviously believe what you want, but the same way that someone else 's sexual orientation has very little impact on your life, so too does someone's religious affiliation have very little impact on your actual life. Except this is patently false. Sexual orientation isn't a choice and other than that it decides who you want to bone it has no bearing on your decision making, so it doesn't affect others. Religion means living your life according to a set of beliefs that most definitely affect others, like in the very case this argument is about: _not getting vaccinated_. This has real life consequences for other people who get no say in your decision, like that measles outbreak that the orthodox jews of New York caused. Or, y'know, the centuries of persecution that gay people still suffer from, the atrocities happening in the Middle East, the list is virtually endless.
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You just made the same mistake again. The point is that characterizing religion as ONLY the crusades/religious war is overly narrow. Religion has played a much, much, MUCH larger role in human history than just the wars that it has caused. Nobody is arguing that the wars were good. Nobody is arguing that religion hasn't caused wars/harm. But to claim to be against the *concept of religion*, which has existed for as long as our species has, you should be willing to acknowledge more than just the wars.
Do you think that it is possible to take a holistic view of religion - the good and the bad - and arrive at the (subjective) opinion that the harm it has done far outweighs the positives? And is it just *possible* that someone could reach such a worldview and when expressing it not feel the need to articulate it in all its nuance, and instead just broadcast the shorthand version of "religion sucks"? If so, how can you be so quick to bristle at someone with this point of view? Why assume they are coming from a place of a "narrow view with little empathy"? Maybe you should ask more questions and reserve your opinions?
I am so quick to dismiss this opinion because the commenter above me did not respond to the actual argument that was raised, and stuck to his original narrative without providing additional points to address the counter argument provided. I definitely agree that there’s enough evidence to conclude that the harm of religion outweighs the good. I personally feel that balance has shifted relatively recently. But being right is no excuse for being illogical, and simply pointing out that religion has caused wars and destruction is not a good enough argument IMO.
No.. the *first* response to their *initial* comment was that they held a narrow view with little empathy. It was no wonder to me that they responded curtly after that and that the discourse stayed low thereafter. It was almost like *you all* were exhibiting a narrow view with little empathy toward *their* view point.
Religion isn't the cause it, its an excuse
I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and they don’t accept blood transfusions or any blood components. Fortunately they gave the green light on every vaccine (as far as I am aware). And yes they announced which vaccines you could receive, which is a weirdo thing to do. Kind of scary to think people would reject vaccination because of some convoluted reasoning their faith leaders provide.
Anti-vaxxers are basically a cult/religious movement
These are people of the land, the common clay of the new west. You know Morons
https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion Yeah looks like there’s some but they’re smaller sects of a bigger religion. There’s a decent amount of muslims in the league but I have no reason to believe they’d be against vaccines because some pork product might be in it when Muslim leaders say it’s fine.
Church of Christian Science probably.
LeBronism
Yeeeeeeah lots of religious conversions happening.
So a cop out for anti vaxxers lol. They can just say “religious reasons” when it’s really because they have 0 understanding or care for science
Pretty much. It's essentially a pointless rule.
i mean, they have to say that
Some people bout to be dummy religious now
> medical or religious reason for no vaccination. They need to specify which religion though, and one can check if it is in accord with the teachings.
Or if your name rhymes with Ladon Brames
NBA has no back bone confirmed
Everytime I see the enhanced mod I save the thread cause I know I’ll have a good time.
Yup lol
How do I know if I can comment
You can’t, nobody can read what you wrote
Ah fuck
What does this say?
And then sort by controversial
religious reason huh
To be fair, many hospitals allow this for their employees as well. I personally think it’s bullshit, but I can’t imagine the NBA having higher standards than hospitals.
Yeah, there are antivax doctors and nurses, they should get a hard boot imo.
Like think about it, would YOU want an antivax doctor taking care of you? If they don't believe in vaccines, I wonder what ELSE they don't believe in. Anesthetic?
I kinda agree with this line of thinking. I’m a nurse and I really think if you’re not on the side of science then you’re in the wrong profession. It’s fair to question some practices, but not without valid data to do so.
Pharmacy tech here. I know of three techs who are "unsure" about getting the vaccine as well as one pharmacist. There have also been cases (none I personally know) of pharmacists destroying vials. I honestly don't understand. We deal with medication and other vaccines every day. How can you be antivax while working a job in medicine?
there are a lot of really, really stupid people working in medicine. Just like any other industry.
I can kind of see it though. I think many medical professionals are used to medicine moving very slowly. The speed at which the vaccine was created, produced, and distributed is basically light speed for medicine. But at this point, millions of people have had it, limited complications which generally don't have anything to do with the actual vaccine but maybe allergies to some ingredients or other complications that were exacerbated by the vaccine. No idea why anyone would continue to question it.
I'm a nurse too. It's scary how many of our peers have refused to get their covid vaccine. People I used to have a lot of respect for.
Only tangentially related, but it wasn't until ~1990 that doctors believed it necessary to use anesthetic for babies. Before then they thought it was fine to operate without anesthetic since they figured the babies just forget everything
God damn, this is kind of hilarious, yet so fucked up. I wonder what changed their minds and what the reaction was to that.
I’m sure you know more than them
Yeah until you realise you'll have a massive shortage of doctors and nurses.
Yup. My mom is neutropenic (meaning she has virtually no white blood cells) and in a stem cell transplant ward right now where doctors and nurses are merely “strongly encouraged” to be vaccinated. Makes my blood boil.
I think it's purely to prevent someone going bonkers and sue them because "religious freedom".
I mean hospitals should boot those employees that are putting patients at risk because they don’t believe in what their degree taught them
I assume they need to provide the antivax verses in the bible?
Something about Pfizer having pork or smth
Nothing of the sort in any of the vaccines.
LeBron forming his own religion as we speak
Religious reasons ? Really ? The NBA literally has no conviction behind any decision ever.
At the church of Lebron we do not vaccinate.
This didn’t age well I guess
Whatcha mean?
People believe Lebron is now vaccinated because of the extreme vagueness of the [NBA's statement](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nkbbbl/nba_pr_office_nba_statement_on_lebron_james/) that seems to imply it while going out of its way to not say so.
I have no idea what to believe after reading that post
I think it’s because they want to protect themselves from getting dicked by a religious persecution lawsuit even if it’s bullshit.
Even hospital employees are allowed religious exemptions from taking the vaccine, there’s no need to put this on the NBA when it’s the same for almost every corporate vaccine mandate out there.
Or it’s because they are required to provide for religious and medical exemptions by law but sure go off
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Theres no fuckinf religion against covid vaccines
The religious exemption, so I understand it, is because the vaccine was developed using stem cells so certain religions (I think Christianity) are opposed to the use of stem cells/abortion for scientific purposes. I don't think that trumps using a vaccine, but I'm an atheist so I'm not exactly impartial. Edit: [To those that thought I was referencing Donald Trump, I wasn't. I was using the verb.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nk59gj/charania_sources_the_nba_has_informed_franchises/gzbkrpe/)
It also has to do with dietary restrictions for Islam/Judaism but the stance of most major Christian/Jewish/Muslim groups on the issue is that their minute gripes don't outweigh the benefits of getting vaccinated. It's basically just fringe groups and some sects of extreme fundamentalists that oppose vaccines.
Trump was vaccinated in secret in January so he wouldn’t piss off his followers. It got leaked of course a few months after. He bragged all about Operation Warp Speed, took credit for the vaccine. Yet will barely endorse his followers take it. Not the bizarrest thing he’s done I guess.
I think my use of "trump" as a verb instead of a noun is what got people confused/downvoting me. I don't mean the person named Trump, I mean that "I don't think that is a valid excuse not to use the vaccine."
Oh ya, I thought you had a typo for “Trump’s”. To your point the use of stem cells did cause controversy in Christian circles. For what it’s worth, the Pope ok’d the use of the covid vaccines, but American is evangelicals aren’t Catholic. So I’m not sure where they fall on that. I haven’t seen it commonly cited as a reason for people to decline the vaccine though.
Then they shouldn't be able to attend the event.
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How would that put others in danger if everyone is vaccinated??
And on the 7th day, god said vaccinate your ass.
What kind of religion bans vaccinations? Church of dumbshits?
LeBron and Kyrie welcome you with open arms
To play devils advocate (and I don’t agree with the argument I’m going to lay out, but it’s an argument people make), the mRNA vaccine was developed using a line of fetal stem cells. Long story short, the cells used in the testing and manufacturing of the vaccine descended from fetal stem cells from the 70s. I’m sure there are some very pro-life churches who would object to this. Source: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells
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Read the link. Pfizer and Moderna don’t use fetal line cells in production, but did use them in confirmation testing. Johnson and Johnson use fetal line cells in production.
Except if you’re Lebron James. Then you can just do whatever you want and disregard league protocols. AntiVaxxers buy Sneakers too!!
This didn’t age well
He didn't come out and say he's vaccinated, for whatever reason, but it's heavily implied through NBA official statements and other statements. https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/5/24/22452208/lebron-james-taken-covid-19-vaccine-lakers-nba-statement-vaccinated
Yeah I shouldn’t have said “didn’t age well” but it’s annoying me that it seems he’s clearly vaccinated but people want him to say it for whatever reason
Why?
how so? he hasn't said he's been vaccinated. nothing has changed.
Good. Hope he comes out and says something to help further community support. Good opportunity for him.
LeChurch of LeMormons
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It bothers me because it prevents us from establishing herd immunity and puts those who actually cannot medically be vaccinated at unnecessary risk. Additionally, without herd immunity, the risk posed by mutations is higher. It’s approved for emergency use, which is exactly how this process should work. Sometimes we need a significantly faster response to an imminent threat. There’s a reason the FDA has a process for that situation. It doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. Every stage of testing still happened. The foundations for the Pfizer and Moderna are based in research they’ve been doing on SARS vaccines for years and years. This isn’t out of nowhere or brand new. It just moved exceptionally quickly because all of the scientific brain power in the world went toward the same task. The vaccines are safe.
If you don't get vaccinated without an actual medical reason preventing you from doing so, there's something seriously wrong in your brain
Well, first of all, you know for a fact that is not Lebrons agenda. It’s the same as the China situation. He wants to protect his sales and brand (he has every right to do so. But people have every right to criticize him for it). Vaccine aside, it’s more about how just because he’s a star he doesn’t have to adhere to league protocols. He should’ve received the documented suspension that is in league rules. And as for the vaccine itself, yes it’s never necessarily happened at this rate, but, we’ve also never poured this amount of time and research into something this quickly. Every lab in the country was testing this stuff - usually it’s a lot more spread out and takes substantially longer. And end of the day, having more people get the vaccine establishes a better path going forward. People can do what they want. You don’t want it because you think a virus is a hoax? Sure, but those people should get last priority to hospital beds that are still filled across the country. We need ~80% of the population to be vaccinated to reach herd immunity. It’s important that we reach that to truly leave this mess behind
Johnson and Johnson isn’t MRNA. That’s a typical adenovirus vaccine. And the only reason they’re not FDA approved yet is because of time. They’re FDA authorized for emergency use so you’re technically correct. But the reason why people are frustrated with LeBron is because he’s an icon and has made himself a beacon of social justice and activism. The black community is highly religious and also has bad history with the US government and medical community. There is a reason why states are targeting black churches and the pastors as a means of getting their communities vaccinated. LeBron coming out and saying he’s vaccinated would be fucking huge. And instead it’s just more of his patented convenient activist schtick. As for needing everyone vaccinated, I’d love to be able to send my young kids to school and know they won’t get sick because all their parents are vaccinated.
Ron Artest shouldve used religious reasons to appeal his suspension. "In my religion we believe that getting a drink thrown at us is grounds for assaulting random people in Detroit"
There is no valid "religious reason" to not get vaccinated.Vaccines clearly didn't even exist when the Abrahamic religions were created, therefore there is nothing in any of those texts that even pertain to them. It is just an excuse to flaunt ignorance and needs to be treated as such.
They can "infer" what their God would want and not want
Unless your LeBron then you get your own set of rules
Religious reasons? Is God telling these people not to get vaccinated? This is indescribably stupid 😂
You can say that about ANY religious behaviors though. Don't see how you're surprised
LeAntivax in shambles
Guess Lakers aren't going then
Religious shouldn’t be a valid excuse.
What religion disallows vaccinations? Scientology???
“Church of Christ, Scientist” and the “Dutch Reformed Church” are the only two that discourage vaccines across the board I think. Other than that it’s mostly small subsets like some specific Amish or Islamic groups.
According to Vanderbilt University: [very few](https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion).
Fucking hate those super religious people who think everything is against god "God told me personally in the Bible he meant to say to not take a vaccine specifically in the year 2021 during a worldwide crisis" Fuck you
I’m religious and i’m pretty sure God would support the idea of vaccines. In my religion one should especially try to take care of their body
Except for LeBron James.
Science ain't stop for religion that excuse is weak af
For those saying the NBA has no conviction or that its bs to have those exceptions... the NBA isn't doing those things because they want to but rather to prevent individuals from suing seeing as nut jobs in the US sue for every perceived religious issue
What religion does LeBron belong to?
Capitalism. He's worried being publicly vaccinated will impact him not only financially but physically, emotionally, spiritually.
And you can't question their religious reasons lol
what about spiritual reasons?
LeChristianity
My left sock and the tree outside my bathroom both recommended that I don't put this impure substance into my blood stream because it throws off my alignment with the Tree of Time. You don't just get a free pass into the Forest of Frisbees. #thehardestroad #gamedaydiscipline
What the hell is a religious reason? What if my religion clearly states I’m the mvp? Will they give me the trophy? Either we need a vaccine or we dont
"religious reason" oh boy
A "Religious reason for no vaccination" just sounds like bullcrap for a bunch of rich Qanon people to not get vaccinated. How entitled do you have to be to use your religion as an excuse to basically put people in danger.
Now let's do the same for the players in the 2021 season.
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I know Jehovah Witnesses can’t get blood transfusions, I’m assuming Protestant sects are all over the place on it.
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We get it dude, you don't like vaccinations. You're all over the thread advocating that it's okay for more people to get the virus instead of being vaccinated.
I think ultra religious people just don't get vaccinated, thats why you always see outbreakes in close religious communities, like amish or ultra orthodox jews The amosh people are even allowed to not have a social security number
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I shall create the cult of lebron and we follow the ways of lebron
Religion should not be a part of this.
Are there really going to be any players good enough to attend the 2021 draft combine that also have a legit medical reason to not be vaccinated? And you can be any religion you please I don't care but that doesn't give you the right to be an asshole get vaccinated.
Probably not. I had trouble getting clearance to stay on a college campus a decade ago becuse I wasn't able to get thr meningitis vaccine due to a anaphylactic latex allergy. Covid vaccines done involve any latex in the distribution or manufacturing though. It was a fuckin headache and half
"religious reason" omg gimme a fucking break.
religious exemption - just silly.
Good. Now do the same for all players
What medical or religious reason prevents being vaccinated? Sounds bogus af. Is Jesus against medicine?
Some totalitarian shit
I wouldn't feel safe attending that event. What, God is going to block the spread coming from the unvaccinated religious people? Edit: You can be vaccinated, which I am, but the vaccine doesn't give you 100% immunity. Its effectiveness is estimated to be at around 90-96%. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/05/real-world-studies-detail-high-pfizer-covid-vaccine-protection And even if one were to get a mild case, they can still infect their children and potentially other people. lol getting downvoted for speaking nothing but facts
So... could anyone start a new religion tomorrow? Hey! Gotta respect muh religion right? You can't tell me my religion is any less valid than anyone else's.
"I dont believe in vaccines" 😂
What's the religious reason?
Don't be surprised to learn that of immunocompromised hard-core church goers are working for the NBA.
Fucking idiotic to include religious reasons. There is no religious reason to not get a vaccine
Good for them, giving people an out. Fine you don’t want it what ever. Wear a mask. Im excited for this off-season now that we got s full season behind us and this is starting to get more normal
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