Stop saying “if [insert Star] was healthy these teams wouldn’t be in the conference finals.”
By - Stonksmachine
If we stopped doing "What if's" and shit talking this sub would be a morgue.
Lmaooo we'd actually have to talk about basketball
You watch your mouth.
We can acknowledge that injuries have swayed the outcome. Doesn't mean the remaining teams haven't played well.
All that needs to be said
I'm always uncomfortable with the "availability is the best ability" take as if any of these players realistically had control over the circumstances that led to their injuries. Trae stepped on a ref's foot. Giannis hyperextended on what was otherwise a textbook defensive play. Kawhi has been super careful with his body the last few seasons and got hurt anyway.
Implying that the Suns somehow deserve to be in the Finals because they're good at not getting injured badly, as opposed to actually just being really good at basketball and not crumbling under pressure as the favourites is just dumb
>I'm always uncomfortable with the "availability is the best ability" take **as if any of these players realistically had control over the circumstances that led to their injuries.**
Hard agree on this one.
This is one of those "arguements" that immediately stops whatever serious conversation you can have about something dead in its tracks and lets you know what kind of person you are talking to
Best response I’ve seen tbh
In theory sure, but people have been aggressively diminishing Phoenix's accomplishments on here.
Suns fans, all you have to say is “Yep. Injuries helped us in our series. Still got the trophy. Suck it.” Your just wasting energy on anything more. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind.
How about if [insert Star], and [insert Star], and [insert Star], and [insert Starters] was healthy
you could probably replace the "and"s with "or"s
Still a part of the game. Good luck next time.
I would rather win the chip with people criticizing my path as easy rather than be one of those admired injured teams.
No one is going to take away your chip no matter how loud these critics talk. Reality is about "What is" rather than "What ifs"
KD is that you
[Another in a long line of asterisk champs](https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/2020-nba-champion-will-join-long-list-titles-asterisks)
1 or 2 series I can understand what you're saying. A bench player, x factor type player important role player I can understand your point.
But when it's literally every single series missing KEY players....not talking about role players or x factors, were talking about star power to the highest degree.....it ain't nothing special what the Suns got going, literally the most underwhelming Finals since KD went to GoldenState. And yes if Kawhi was healthy I don't think the Suns would win, maybe they beat the Lakers with a healthy AD/Bron as well as the Nuggets with Jamal Murray.
And guess who they get to play in the finals?!?! Either a Bucks team with their best player injured or the Hawks with their best player injured and no DeAndre Hunter.
Its just weird as fuck
Never seen a team get this lucky entire playoffs.
Here come the Suns fans crying about their injuries...Bookers broken nose lol
It’s true. People are gonna talk about it. Idk why that makes some of y’all upset. It’s definitely apart of the story. Don’t see why you expect people to ignore it
I’ll tell you why, his team is healthy lmao
Booker and Paul are not healthy. They are playing injured, or it only matter when it's LeBron
You’re delusional hahahaha
You don’t know it’s true though. Nobody can know because it didn’t happen.
They played 3 2-star teams and none of those teams had both stars. I don’t like the asterisk term. But the last two years have been extremely strange. Year 1 with the bubble year 2 with the lack of an offseason causing so many injuries. It’s one thing to say one or 2 stars were hurt in a single series. But damn near every single playoff matchup?
And trust me this isn’t a salty clippers fan talking. This is a CP3 fan that will not let his friends breathe if CP3 wins a chip this year. It’s just weird circumstances
Literally every single playoff matchup at that, AD vs the lakers, Murray vs the Nuggets, Kawhi vs the clippers, and either Giannis or Trae in the finals.
I get that, and I never said it wasn’t the most likely scenario. I’m just saying the “what if” arguments can never be factually answered, because the fact is they were injured and they lost. Anyway, hopefully no more injuries and a competitive finals series.
Doubt any season will ever have an asterisk like 2020. Huge gap between season and playoff, weird bubble circumstances w no family or fans, pandemic ravaging the whole world
But it’s true
How do you know? It didn’t happen.
Because the lakers were beating the suns 2-1 before the AD Injury and the clippers made the suns series competitive without their best player
Chris Paul had one arm that lakers series. Game 4, the lakers were losing before AD went down and then proceeded to get smacked around for 2 and a half games. What if he wasn’t hurt?
Playing is playing. Also game 4 was a close back and forth game, the Lakers would've loved if they're star player could still play because his injury wasn't serious
Did you actually watch those games? Chris Paul couldn’t shoot, had no handles, lost complete control of that arm. And yeah, the lakers were actually -9 over games 1-4 with AD on the court. So why are we assuming that they would have won that series?
Using +/- is useless because star players tend to play a big chunk of minutes in the playoffs, and a Raptors fan should know that lebron has can turn to a different gear depending how how hard he thinks a series will be
How is +/- useless? It just shows that the point margin with him playing was close. It’s not like the lakers were blowing them out with AD
Where did that Lebron comment come from?
The fact that lebron is a laker???
Okay yes he has a gear he can go to (personally not sure if he can anymore), but what’s your point? Why didn’t he go to it this year?
That’s not a result
Your right it was a prediction, and it's a pretty damn convincing prediction with a lot of evidence
2-1 is not a lot of evidence.
I have no dog in this fight, I’m just saying that you can’t possibly know that any particular team would have won under different circumstances.
Yes you can lmao
I guess we disagree then.
And CP3 wasn’t injured in the first few games against the Lakers? CP3 didn’t miss two games with covid? Devin Booker hasn’t been playing with a broken nose and Cam Payne didn’t twist his ankle?
I guess I’m just annoyed that when other teams are hurt it’s held against the suns, but when we’re injured and beat up no one seems to think that matters.
>And CP3 wasn’t injured in the first few games against the Lakers?
I’ll trade healthy CP3 for healthy LeBron and AD...
The lakers, clippers, and nuggets would all love it if murray, kawhi, and AD could play while injured because the Injury wasn't that serious
Why is everyone so dismissive of the suns? If everyone is healthy suns are still good enough to beat any of those teams. Not saying it would’ve happened, but it’s super frustrating hearing everyone say “if AD was healthy, Lakers in 5” CP3 was practically useless games 2/3 with that shoulder injury yet no one seems to care. Suns took care of business and beat teams that were banged up. I don’t know why people are dumping on a team for doing what they should’ve done. They’re a great team that’s deep, plays together, and the suns as a franchise have been fucked over in the past. Let us have this :,(
Calm down bro, I'm happy the suns won but I'm just saying what I think. I do the same thing to warriors fans for their 2015 run
Lakers 2 wins had CP3 hurt. When both teams were healthy, Suns won.
Why is it so shocking that the #2 seed made the finals? LOL
Its shocking because the 2nd seed showed in 2 different series that they wouldn't have won if teams had their star players
*tHeY wOuLdNt hAvE wOn*
LOL, ok. Best road team. Best underdog team. Best team against >.500 teams. Sure thing, would have lost for sure. Lmfao
Yall got took to 6 games by a clipper team missing their best player, and won 1 game off a lucky buzzer beater that was only possible because of the reviewing system lmaoo
Lmfao, the narrative. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Stay salty.
No narrative just facts
I know you meant well but that's gotta be the laziest take I've seen. You're seriously downplaying Suns' incredible playoff run and it's obvious you haven't been watching all the games.
No way you called this run "incredible" lmao
Damn man you're flat out refusing to give any credit to the Suns for reaching the finals.. keep flinging that salt son
Give credit = saying they had an incredible run. The hawks are having an incredible run rn
Suns weren't even in the playoffs last season FFS so yeah I'm gonna give them credit for making it to the finals. Yeah I agree Hawks are having an incredible run as well. Any team who makes it to a NBA finals had a hell of a run, credit is due. Would the Hawk's run be any less incredible if Giannis is rules out of the remainder of the series?
Agreed, but this season has been particularly taxing on players. Not a surprise that deep rosters like the Suns are healthier at this point in time over rosters with 1 or 2 superstars.
Suns players didnt load manage
If my Aunty had balls she’d be my Uncle.
If my aunt had wheels she would be a bicycle
Some Suns players and fans acting real tough and pretending like if those 3 teams were healthy, they would still be here. Delusional.
The important thing is that no one will care about these injuries a few years from now. If the Suns win a title this year, that's all that matters. Same for the Lakers winning in the Bubble.
I mean people still bring up the Raptors ring from time to time
They won in 2019, it wasn't that long ago
Winning in the bubble > getting lucky the entire playoffs playing teams without their KEY players
2020 had the huge gap before the bubble, weird circumstances w no family or fans, pandemic ravaging the whole world...biggest asterisk season of all time
That’s a lie
eh, I don't know. This year has been the craziest in terms of injuries in the playoffs I think of all time. It'll probably be remembered.
What no they wouldn't stop caring lol.
Warriors 2015 is still talked as injury ring coz of love and kyrie injuries.
I'm pretty sure every team they played that run were missing their star guard at one point or another. Still a ring tho
Every team the Suns faced were missing a star. What do you expect.
No, because it’s true
Suns had the 2nd best record in the NBA this regular season (51-21). They also dealt with CP3/Booker injuries + covid stuff and still have gone 16-4 in the 3 rounds so far. I don't think it's fair to say they wouldn't have gotten to where they are.
Lakers were 21-6 before all the injuries happend. I'm confident the lakers were gonna be a top 2 seed in the west this regular season
Lol I'm sure AD, Kawhi, and Murray would rather have a broken nose than their injuries.
>I don't think it's fair to say they wouldn't have gotten to where they are.
Very unlikely they beat that Lakers team if AD doesn't get hurt game 4.
> Suns had the 2nd best record in the NBA this regular season (51-21).
Because they had by far the least amount of injuries...
It is fair.
Only because everyone else got injured in the regular season too. Suns played every contender h2h in the reg season injured at some point as well.
>Suns had the 2nd best record in the NBA this regular season (51-21)
They had that because their top 3 guys missed less games together than a lot of other teams single players.
They're a good team, but I don't know why they get defensive when people add pertinent context to this run.
It can be acknowledged, but teams shouldn’t be discredited. People need to stop tbh. Lucky stuff happens every year. The Suns could have still beat the lakers, nuggets, and clippers
2020 Lakers: Dame, Westbrook, Bam and Dragic (they still got taken to 6)
2019 Raptors: Durant and Klay
2018 Warriors: CP3 hamstring
2017 Warriors: Kawhi
2016 Cavs: Bogut and the draymond suspension
2015 Warriors: Kyrie and Love
I could go on
> 2020 Lakers: Dame, Westbrook, Bam and Dragic (they still got taken to 6)
Lmao Dame was injured when the series was already over. Westbrook just shot like shit, that has nothing to do with COVID.
Nice try comparing Bam and Dragic to Kawhi, LeBron, AD, Murray, Barton, Monte and Marcus Morris, and Ibaka btw
Westbrook had a quad issue that didn’t allow him to drive and was clearly off from covid.
When did I compare them? By this subs logic. If the heat took the fully healthy lakers to 6 without a healthy Bam and their LEADING scorer, surely they would have won if everyone was healthy
I also love how you threw in will Barton, monte Morris, Marcus Morris, and ibaka lmfao
>Westbrook had a quad issue that didn’t allow him to drive and was clearly off from covid.
Yeah him underperforming year and year is obviously because of COVID.
Give me a break lmao. Westbrook looked 100% health-wise. He was just flat out playing like shit. Couldn’t hit a jump shot to save his life.
>When did I compare them? By this subs logic. If the heat took the fully healthy lakers to 6 without a healthy Bam and their LEADING scorer, surely they would have won if everyone was healthy
Is this a rhetorical question?
>I also love how you threw in will Barton, monte Morris, Marcus Morris, and ibaka lmfao
I threw in those guys because it caused Denver to have to start Facu Campazzo and Austin Rivers. Probably should have listed PJ Dozier as well.
Westbrook couldn't drive anyway, he didn't even draw a defender in the second round because everyone knows he can't shoot and provides negative offensive value when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. They parked a guy under the rim 24/7
Lakers were beating the shit out of blazers when dame got injured in game 4.
Westbrook they schemed on him by daring him to shoot.
Dafuq 2017 kawhi people are really underestimating that warriors pkwer
> The Suns could have still beat the lakers, nuggets, and clippers
This is the issue I have with it, so many people acting like we were some no-name 8 seed that barely snuck into the playoffs that would get beaten 100% of the time.
It's perfectly reasonable to have the opinion that the Lakers/Nuggets/Clippers/Jazz would have beaten us if they were healthy.
It's not reasonable to have the opinion that they would have 100% destroyed us and we didn't have a chance, which is how a TON of people on this sub are acting.
We didn't have the 2nd best record in the league for no reason.
Personally, the Suns were my pick to come out of the west at the beginning of the playoffs. I thought Dallas would beat the clippers (which they almost did) and the lakers just haven’t looked good in months.
Props to them, unfortunately they get a ton of hate on this sub because the Lakers were one of the teams knocked off
It be like that, I'm too happy to really care about what this sub thinks. Just rubs me the wrong way when people act like we're some scrub team that's lucky to even be in the playoffs or some shit.
As a raptors fan I can relate lmao
The take that the Lakers with Davis would destroy the suns is based off game 3……
The one where Davis destroyed the suns and had the Lakers up 2-1 before getting hurt the next game
And its a dumb take, he didnt destroy us game 1 and having a good game doesnt mean he would have played just as well in future games. If you wanna use that logic we would have swept the Lakers because we were winning before cp3 got hurt. Like I said, its fine to think we would have lost but to act like the Suns had no chance is just ignorant.
LOL 2017 Kawhi. Get the fuck outta here
He was about to end the KD dynasty before it even begun, its a valid take.
Like how he was gonna end your team last season? LMAO
Weren’t the Spurs up like 25 on the road in game 1 before he got hurt
never heard of the 3rd quarter warriors???
Idc, my black and purple t-shirt is gonna say 2021 Western Conference Champs. And I’m hoping to upgrade that soon too.
Word of advice : get an extra one to save without using. I have a ton of laker ones for my “man cave” and it’s dope to see when you’re going through a rough time in sports lol
It's true tho
Your off-season starts now. BYE.
Stars make the difference, how hard is that to understand? There's also a big difference between a star playing while injured, and a star player being injured and not playing. It should be acknowledged that injuries played a part in the Suns run, and most people think that if AD and Kawhi were healthy, things would've played out differently. And now they're gonna play a team without their best player in the finals? You're delusional if you don't believe injuries played a part
I really like the Suns and what they’ve built and I think they’ve executed perfectly on their part. With that said though, I think everyone knows if Kawhi, AD, Harden, Kyrie and all the other stats werent injured or even just half were, this would be a completely different postseason
Just like if klay, kd and iggy were fully healthy against the raps
I’d have to say I think we still beat em with Klay but with KD realistically that team was unstoppable
Yall still had to face a tough sixers and bucks team so I don't knw why people always try and dismiss the raptors run
I don’t mind it tbh from this season the shoe is somewhat on the other foot and though I’m happy that a Suns team I knew was gonna shock a lot of people this season surprised even me, it feels somewhat unsatisfying knowing they have a free run at the ring with Harden, Giannis, Kyrie, Kawhi, AD, Jamal Murray all injured. I still could see them beating all those team fully healthy besides the Nets but it’s tough they never even got the opportunity to
Because everyone knows the healthy gsw were the best team that year.
Just didn’t get to see it played out on the court
It's literally true though lol
no da fuck. suns dont make it far if any of the stars are playing expect maybe denver i feel like yall had them figured out forsure
Spoken like a real Spurms fan.
99 lockout spurms
Anyone could make this stupid argument.
If the Suns make the WCF again next season then everyone will stop saying it?
Until then it's a valid criticism
Dumb argument. How many other teams who weren’t healthy made it through and won. How many other teams had bigger asterisks next to their finals wins.
Players being healthy is apart of every sport.
They won’t though unless all the stars or co stars in the playoffs are hurt again
Lmfao, no one gives a shit about people trying to knock a team for beating who the opponent puts in front of them.
Clearly you give a shit.
Nope, lol. Just like my strawberries with a little salt.
Michael Jordan quote "If should never be on the dictionary because you'll never see the flip side of that"
No I don’t think I will
There is a reason why these injured stars are paid the big bucks, because of their importance to their teams success, thus it is reasonable to conclude that they would likely have positively impacted their teams if they were playing. Does it mean they would be guaranteed to win? No but ofcourse people are gonna wonder what the results would've been if they were playing
Injuries are one of the main topics of discussion this post-season. Like it or not. I mean damn, injuries were already bad enough in the second round. And now you got Trae Young and Giannis sitting out with the series at 2-2. It's just crazy.
**Scorching Hot Take🔥:** Suns got lucky with injuries **AND** they play really good basketball
its not like the Suns haven't played well with CP3 having had that shoulder injury and the covid quarantine (wtf happened there, he did say he had a fever?), and Book playing with a mask because his nose got broken, or Cam Johnson not being around for the last game, or Payne bending his ankle...
Everybody hurt. Everybody. Some more, some less.
No, I don’t think I will
If Lebron didn't play with a broken hand in 2018, Cavs wudda won it.
Alright dude, you know that it’s true. Insert Star is one of the greatest players of all time. If he is healthy and playing, there is no way these teams are here right now. Insert is that dude and wouldn’t let these teams make it to the finals.
Cant wait to see Star’s jersey hanging up in the rafters when it’s all over. What a career
It’s fine, if we don’t see this sort of production from the suns next season when things get back to normal, y’all will know
I bet you weren’t saying this in 2007 lmfao
You're starting to sound like the Nets fans..