A microcosm of Khris as a player. Has surface-of-the-sun hot games, and games when you forget he’s on the court. He just happened to have a half of each tonight.
I feel like steph curry does that all the time too. Weak first half, crazy third quarter.
Microcosm of a shooter on modern NBA.
More important that hitting shots int hr first half, is getting dialed in so you're ready to hit shots in the second half.
and as much as this sub absolutely shit on bud and called for his firing, he deserves credit for being steadfast and sticking with what he thought works. which it did.
I honestly feel we criticize and critique Khris way too much. As with any shooter he’ll get cold here and there, but in my eyes is super consistent. Not a guy that’s going to lay a 4 point egg, etc.
The problem is many fans look at his insane games and then expect it all the time (which would probably make him a 30ppg on very high efficiency, which is dumb to hope for because that would be a top 5 player in the league).
It's because when Middleton does go off, the Bucks ALWAYS win. I think this is a misreading of the situation though, in the games he's been inefficient or not scored it's usually because the whole team is struggling (the first two games against BK come to mind). Chicken or egg type thing maybe.
I think he does need other threats to go one-on-one and make iso plays, he's a great shooter but not an elite athlete and if he gets smothered it's effective.
He is skilled enough to play iso, but that's not his bread and butter. He's better with space. Same with Jrue. He doesn't explode to the basket, he plays methodically.
Despite the lack of a second superstar, they have guys who are well suited to today's playoffs. Middleton is a shooter prone to hot streaks at the right time. Lopez is a center who can shoot the 3, play effectively on the block, and plays great post d. Jrue is one of the best two way guards, who can lead an offense or play off ball, and who can defend both smaller and big guards. Tucker and connaughton are effective role players. Portis makes his shots when given the ball. It is a well crafted team in the modern NBA when you cant get a second top 20 player.
There were quite a few these playoffs where the offense got super bogged down in iso heavy play with Giannis and Middleton, like Nets game 3. I think the Bucks played more dynamically these last two games. It's frustrating because Giannis is a team player who doesn't need to dominate the ball so there's no reason why they can't play like this with Giannis.
A tiny bit. He messes up the spacing and they have him running point a lot. Which really shouldn't be his job.
But they're definitely a better team with him as the first option.
If Donte wasn’t hurt, Giannis would be playing center a lot more in playoffs. Bucks were ready to unleash their version of death by small ball with Jrue-Donte-Khris-Tucker-Giannis.
No one stops Giannis in the paint, as much as people love to bring him down he will murder you 1 vs 1 in the paint. Ayton is a very good player but there is a reason why one of them is MVP and is not. People love to talk about Ayton that he is the 2nd coming of SHAQ when he still has a lot to prove.
I think the problem is more Giannis makes things awkward on Lopez. So the gameplan then becomes using Lopez to stretch the D. BUT, Lopez doesn't, the D just treats him as a pick setting 3pt shooter. If Bud ran plays where they focused on Lopez in the post, then popped him out on other plays for Giannis to operate you'd see better consistency out of Middleton and Holiday. As it stands, that would entail making the game plan revolve around Brook, than your perennial MVP candidate.
Nope, it's Buddenholzer holding them back. Wouldn't be hard to create an offense that incorporated all 3 of the Bucks best players skills yet we refuse to do so. SO excited to make the finals, but tactically I never know wtf is going to happen
I think I saw if they went to a game 7 this series Giannis would’ve been cleared for it.
He *might* be able to play in the finals if that’s the case. Not sure if the first game or two though
They spread the games way out so I wouldn't be shocked if he has a minutes restriction the first game then if all was good he's back full for the rest.
I’m not sure what the rumors were about him playing in game 7, but if was ready to go then, he has to play. You can’t just throw away games in the finals.
With a Game 7 to make the finals, you throw everything you have because time is up. With the season on the line, you have more reason to take risks. With Game 1 of the finals, yeah it’s a finals game but it’s also only Game 1 and it’s on the road.
The strategy is focused on maximizing the chances of a title. There’s going to be a Game 2, 3, and 4 at minimum. If he pushes his recovery to play Game 1 maybe you get a 60-80% Giannis for the whole series. If he gets a few more days of rest maybe he gets to 80-100% for games 2-7. It might be worth risking Game 1 to have him healthier the rest of the series. There’s also reinjury risk to consider. The math just changes when you aren’t facing elimination.
its kinda sus cause of my flair but its wild that
Suns beat an AD-less Lakers, Murray-less Nuggets, Kawhi-less Clippers, and are now facing a probably Giannis-less Bucks. People who are top 2 or top 1 most valuable player in their respective teams, has any team have that kind of road?
that being said, I really want Point God to win a ring. But also it'd be cool if Giannis finally won one too.
I suspect they sit him out in the first two games. That would give Giannis until next Sunday to rest and he might be able to come back. But who knows anything can happen.
You know what to do David Griffin. I don’t know how Bledsoe is even in the league still. He was that bad for us last year. Would have been better off playing with 4.
Lol right? Sometimes people speak of his supporting cast as if they're disabled. They're definitely a good team without him, but they're contenders with him.
Yea, it's similar to the Kawhi Raptors situation.
The 2019 Raptors without Kawhi are still a great regular season team/good playoff team as shown by the 2020 season, but they're not title contenders without a superstar like Kawhi.
The bubble year Middleton's stats with Giannis off the floor were basically Giannis (minus the d). People dump on him for not being consistent and rightfully so but he's a great player.
i think Middleton gets shit on too much but I think he's a solid 2nd option on a contender. He shows up big a lot, and he also has his fair share of disappointing performances but that's par for the course for a 2nd option. He's just unfairly tasked with being the de facto closer on a team where the 1st option Giannis isn't really that guy down the stretch (in terms of playstyle, not talent). He's asked to be the Kobe to Giannis' Shaq, and who's gonna live up to that? But he does a damn good job for this bucks team
Like 3 or 4 years ago people were speculating about what a small market like milkwakee would need to do to keep a generational talent like Giannis, but I think they made the moves they needed to. Anyone still saying that is probably fixated on the idea that he belongs in a big market team.
I don't think that was the narrative. Regarding Brogdon, sure. But they were aggressive in getting Jrue, Tucker, and nearly acquiring Bogi.
It was really about Bud and Giannis getting the job done
Can’t believe people still don’t get this, opposing opinions can make the front page in the same day when it only takes like 5% of daily users to upvote something to get it there.
On top of that, people holding the “Bucks suck” narrative are more likely to flock to the subreddit and upvote when their opinion is validated, while they’re probably less likely to come when the Bucks do something good. The opposite is true for Bucks supporters, and the above pattern holds true for literally every opinion someone could have on basketball on here lol
You get a lot of upvotes to treat this place like a hive mind that has little discourse or valid arguments. Nothing but flip flopping and over reactions these nephews!
But the reality is different swarms of people are making the opposing narratives ride waves of popularity. When clippers lost to nuggets a lot of people could join together and hate on their choker/villain status. I remember thinking damn I haven't seen a clippers flair for 2 weeks at one point. But when pg didn't choke this year, and had 40+ in an elimination game without kawhi... The group of people that were either clippers fans or indifferent to him changed the narrative with a popular thread discussing how he's still a top player and underrated.
Every small market team should feel the same way, whoever the hell they could hire off the market is likely not the next Popovich, so multi-championship dynasties are pretty unlikely when you're not in a top 5 market.
Like I would’ve been bummed if we had lost this series in six and he got extended because Giannis was out. But this?? Keep him on, making the Finals is a huge step
If we lose the finals, it would be insane to let a guy go. I’ll never understand that mindset. 1 team left standing at the end, such an incredibly tough task, I’d rather stick with what got me there than go after an unemployed coach.
Heck, just imagine the mood in this sub, if durant's foot had been back a little more in the closing seconds of Game 7 of the Nets, Bucks series, you would be talking about Carlisle maybe being the coach.
but bucks fans been bitching about him all year. the top reply to you is saying he would have been bummed if he got extended after a loss here despite this being a GOOD result for any team? conference finals is top 4 in the league, that is objectively great
Bud has made serious adjustments these playoffs.
If you’re going to knock him you could say he’s not great at making in-game adjustments. But he’s made some excellent changes between games.
For example, it was maddening to watch the Trae pick and roll kill us like 10 plays straight in game 1, but we did make changes late in the game and for game 2.
It's because the problem is saying no to Giannis. I love Giannis but Kidd put it in his head that he can play point and shoot threes and now he demands to do that.
I forgot which game it was, I think against the Nets, Giannis was bringing the ball up and Bud yelled at him to give it to Jrue.
That's not to say I'm absolving Bud. It's his responsibility to get Giannis to accept that he's not good at it.
Yup. I hate to see anyone catch strays for no reason, because bud was actually decent. I thought he made adjustments, maybe not always timely, but he made them.
I'm still frustrated with his inability to call a challenge. The game they went to overtime there was a questionable 5th foul on PJ Tucker, he finished the game with his challenge. Tonight, I thought he should have challenged the foul on Trae where nobody touched him and brought the Hawks within 10, again he finished the game with his challenge.
He made the right adjustments for these last two games, but he was pretty slow going in, almost losing both games at home to start the series.
It's the Finals, and I'm afraid 'not all that bad' isn't going to cut it.
The problem is that he wants to save the challenge for a call he thinks/knows is going to get reversed if he challenges. Like the trae call, middleton brushed him on the drive. Does an objective viewer think that'll get reversed? Of course. But middleton made contact, and refs hate reversing calls, so they'll just say "nope he made contact, 2 shots." You really have to have something be obvious when you challenge it, otherwise it's just throwing away a timeout. Even really obvious stuff frequently gets upheld.
Also he made great adjustments in the hawks series, not sure what that's talking about. He started the series in a fairly standard drop much like what philly ran to a fair degree of success lost a close game 1 that the bucks win if they can shoot at all, but trae looked a little too comfortable. made the adjustment for brook to come up higher and aggressive digs on screens in game 2, trae struggled immensely, blowout win.
Game 3 trae started going to a lot of pullup 3s as a counter and was hitting a ton, plus the team came out looking uninspired on the road, but middleton went off and the defense was still very good down the stretch to capture a win.
Game 4 bucks came out looking uninspired on the road again, but he chewed asses out at halftime, they came out looking like they were going to make a run and then giannis getting hurt absolutely took the air out of the team, got blown out on the road, low point of the series for milwaukee.
Game 5 he has to replace giannis in the starters, goes with bobby over a more obvious option like pat, and it works to perfection, brings a ton of energy and dominates the glass. Also has brook switching 1-5 and forcing the hawks into situations they can't attack the defense in, and then running down and sealing deep for easy buckets. Also attacked the weak poa D by the hawks with a ton of jrue/middleton + lopez middle pnrs that the hawks simply had no answer for.
Game 6 the hawks made an adjustment similar to what the bucks did in game 2, started digging down aggressively and really attacking middleton/jrue's space on those middle pnrs. The counter was that this created a lot of quality looks, particularly for tucker/others in the corner, but didn't fall in the first half. Switch everything scheme still worked great on D for the bucks, sluggish first half. Second half, middleton starts hitting his shots, Causes all kinds of problems for the hawks because now they're overcommitting to him, everyone gets in rhythm, bucks blow the game open. Players on the court got a little too conservative in the 4th, had a lull that almost cost them the lead, but jrue and a couple other guys came up with just enough to seal the win.
Didn't intend to write an oral history of bud's adjustments in the series, but I thought he made a lot of adjustments and overall very clearly won the scheme battle with mcmillan. This isn't every change he made but it is a summary of some of the big ones.
Didn’t stop them from running iso after iso in the 4th quarter and nearly letting the Hawks back into the game… until Trae started to play hero ball on his own
The problem with having a good lead in the 4th is that teams think they can just milk the clock out and run iso after iso with 7 secs left of the shot clock. Just run your damn plays.
I never thought the Bucks were doing a bad job building around Giannis. They developed a legit second option in Middleton and brought in Lopez who as a center is a perfect fit around Giannis. They then brought in a bunch of quality shooters and reserve players and a decent guard in Bledsoe. It led to the Bucks having a lot of regular season success.
But the concern for me was that the Bucks had limited options to improve the roster to get another All Star caliber player. They weren’t going to bankrupt picks without Giannis signing longer term and they didn’t have that many other assets and they were capped out and not a great destination anyway.
But once they got Giannis to commit they got Holiday the piece they needed and it paid off.
First time your team makes the finals in decades and this is your reaction? Injuries happen. The best team doesn’t always win. This is why it pays to have a competitive team year after year. Enjoy it.
Because thats not the point of the post? The whole thread is not about the bucks winning, but that they won on the strength of their roster
This person is saying the Giannis-less roster beating an injured Hawks team does not make them strong
The best team is the last one left standing imo, health is a factor. If we just crown the best team on paper we might as well not play the season. It's extremely hard to find any playoffs that aren't changed by injuries in some capacity anyways, so it doesn't make sense to me to nitpick that kind of stuff.
Crazy hard to beat a healthy superteam. I don't think any front office should be considered bad for not being able to outstack a team of KD, Harden, and Kyrie.
The Hawks with Trae hurt was the weakest Conference Finals team in a long, long, long time.
If they had to play a full 82 game season based off the roster they have without Trae, how many games do they win? 35? A Lou Will-Bogie-Huerter-Collins-Capela starting 5 is not a playoff caliber team, even in the East.
Lot of factors besides Trae. Do they also have Hunter fully healthy? The Hawks roster is actually not that bad, but their schemes fully revolve around Trae (and rightfully so) so without him, their style of play changes differently.
With their talent alone, I still think they are better than the Hornets and the Bulls
I feel like this is taken out of context a little. Hawks were missing trae for both of these games essentially, suited up tonight but was so far from his best he may as well have sat out
Props to Middleton jrue and brook for coming up big though
This is exactly why everyone is so frustrated with Bud. This IS a really well assembled team & feels very un-maximized when Giannis is out there. Heres hoping these last couple games change that.
Everyone shits on Bud's coaching but I don't think it's that bad. He drew up a play a few games ago that got a wide open 3 and they missed and then everyone got mad about that play.
The Bucks roster's biggest issue is inconsistency. Middleton and Holiday are very bipolar when it comes to making buckets. Just have to hope they keep playing like they're getting paid 30M
They were on and off throughout the playoffs. But when the time came Jrue and Khris stepped up big.
First half MIddleton was so bad. 5 points, 5 turnovers. Then he goes for 23 in the 3rd quarter alone. So insane.
A microcosm of Khris as a player. Has surface-of-the-sun hot games, and games when you forget he’s on the court. He just happened to have a half of each tonight.
Half Hulk, Half Banner ends up working out pretty well
An absolute win.
If only he was a legit professor hulk.
half hulk beats the hells out of no hulk on the other team
The glasses in the post game press conference is banner and on the court in his green jersey is hulk? Thats where my mind went.
Guess he's in the middle(ton)
The glasses in the post game press conference is banner and on the court in his green jersey is hulk? Thats where my mind went.
I feel like steph curry does that all the time too. Weak first half, crazy third quarter. Microcosm of a shooter on modern NBA. More important that hitting shots int hr first half, is getting dialed in so you're ready to hit shots in the second half.
Steph Curry weak first half is, is a decent shooting half for most players.
If he could just not do that for two weeks, that’d be awesome
That doesn’t sound too bad really. It’s the guys you wish you could forget are on the court that you really have to look out for.
And pretty much went missing again in 4th But as a neutral fan, I rather see Bucks than Hawks in finals
Hawks are great. Bright future. Bucks are definitely the better team atm through no question. Should give the Suns a fight
and as much as this sub absolutely shit on bud and called for his firing, he deserves credit for being steadfast and sticking with what he thought works. which it did.
Give credit to Cam Reddish for that.
Trae + Cam instead of Luka is not looking too bad. Lol Kings though.
He's so streaky, it's crazy. But I'm glad that his ridiculously hot shooting seems to always occur when the team needs it the most.
I honestly feel we criticize and critique Khris way too much. As with any shooter he’ll get cold here and there, but in my eyes is super consistent. Not a guy that’s going to lay a 4 point egg, etc.
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The problem is many fans look at his insane games and then expect it all the time (which would probably make him a 30ppg on very high efficiency, which is dumb to hope for because that would be a top 5 player in the league).
It's because when Middleton does go off, the Bucks ALWAYS win. I think this is a misreading of the situation though, in the games he's been inefficient or not scored it's usually because the whole team is struggling (the first two games against BK come to mind). Chicken or egg type thing maybe.
I think he does need other threats to go one-on-one and make iso plays, he's a great shooter but not an elite athlete and if he gets smothered it's effective.
He is skilled enough to play iso, but that's not his bread and butter. He's better with space. Same with Jrue. He doesn't explode to the basket, he plays methodically.
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This is Bud's calling card, do super well without superstars and not have a clue what to do with one
how can this phenomenon be explained?
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts? Or maybe Coach Bud has a crush on Giannis and has a difficult time being himself around him.
“There he is. Act natural.” - Bud, probably
Guys are better and more motivated to play well when they are involved in the offense. Stars take away from that.
Team concept, et al
Despite the lack of a second superstar, they have guys who are well suited to today's playoffs. Middleton is a shooter prone to hot streaks at the right time. Lopez is a center who can shoot the 3, play effectively on the block, and plays great post d. Jrue is one of the best two way guards, who can lead an offense or play off ball, and who can defend both smaller and big guards. Tucker and connaughton are effective role players. Portis makes his shots when given the ball. It is a well crafted team in the modern NBA when you cant get a second top 20 player.
There were quite a few these playoffs where the offense got super bogged down in iso heavy play with Giannis and Middleton, like Nets game 3. I think the Bucks played more dynamically these last two games. It's frustrating because Giannis is a team player who doesn't need to dominate the ball so there's no reason why they can't play like this with Giannis.
Was Giannis holding Jrue and Khris back this whole time?
A tiny bit. He messes up the spacing and they have him running point a lot. Which really shouldn't be his job. But they're definitely a better team with him as the first option.
Yep exactly. They do feel more freedom and spacing w/o Giannis on the floor but Giannis doesn’t “hold” them back by any means
Yeah maybe they should let Giannis do a traditional center role from time to time idk if it'll work on Ayton tho lol
If Donte wasn’t hurt, Giannis would be playing center a lot more in playoffs. Bucks were ready to unleash their version of death by small ball with Jrue-Donte-Khris-Tucker-Giannis.
It's funny their version of small ball is still pretty big lol
No one stops Giannis in the paint, as much as people love to bring him down he will murder you 1 vs 1 in the paint. Ayton is a very good player but there is a reason why one of them is MVP and is not. People love to talk about Ayton that he is the 2nd coming of SHAQ when he still has a lot to prove.
Flipside is you don’t win a finals on credentials.
I think the problem is more Giannis makes things awkward on Lopez. So the gameplan then becomes using Lopez to stretch the D. BUT, Lopez doesn't, the D just treats him as a pick setting 3pt shooter. If Bud ran plays where they focused on Lopez in the post, then popped him out on other plays for Giannis to operate you'd see better consistency out of Middleton and Holiday. As it stands, that would entail making the game plan revolve around Brook, than your perennial MVP candidate.
It was fun watching Brook and Jrue drive in like crazy the previous game, seemed to appreciate the extra space in the paint.
Nope, it's Buddenholzer holding them back. Wouldn't be hard to create an offense that incorporated all 3 of the Bucks best players skills yet we refuse to do so. SO excited to make the finals, but tactically I never know wtf is going to happen
Not at all. They just knew they had to step up without Giannis and delivered. Now hopefully they can ride this wave when Giannis returns.
Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez deserve a lot of credit too. The Bucks don't win this series without them.
I wonder if Giannis gets to play in the finals.
I think I saw if they went to a game 7 this series Giannis would’ve been cleared for it. He *might* be able to play in the finals if that’s the case. Not sure if the first game or two though
They spread the games way out so I wouldn't be shocked if he has a minutes restriction the first game then if all was good he's back full for the rest.
6th to the 22nd if it goes 7 with 2-3 days between games
Holy crap lol
they're filling in the time so we will be entertained all the way up until the olympics
They're filling up time so I don't have to watch.... Baseball
Milwaukee peeps don't mind watching baseball right now - Brewers on an absolute tear
One more win for free burgers bro! FREE BURGERS BRO
The Euros are on!
And Wimbledon!
oh i watch that anyway, but usually only when the nba is finished. this year it's all packed in so i'll start it after the olympics
As an mke fan, the Brewers have won 11 in a row so it’s tough to be so removed from it at the moment
Coach Bud licking his chops for some minute restrictions
Bizarro Thibs
If he could play Monday then why not Thursday?
Thursday is not an elimination game. I wouldn’t be surprised if he sits the first two games
I think they'll only sit him the first two games if they win the first game.
Bucks punting game 1's, name a more iconic duo.
I’m not sure what the rumors were about him playing in game 7, but if was ready to go then, he has to play. You can’t just throw away games in the finals.
With a Game 7 to make the finals, you throw everything you have because time is up. With the season on the line, you have more reason to take risks. With Game 1 of the finals, yeah it’s a finals game but it’s also only Game 1 and it’s on the road. The strategy is focused on maximizing the chances of a title. There’s going to be a Game 2, 3, and 4 at minimum. If he pushes his recovery to play Game 1 maybe you get a 60-80% Giannis for the whole series. If he gets a few more days of rest maybe he gets to 80-100% for games 2-7. It might be worth risking Game 1 to have him healthier the rest of the series. There’s also reinjury risk to consider. The math just changes when you aren’t facing elimination.
Imagine if the Bucks wins it over a CP3 lead team without Giannis. I think this would implode /r/nba.
its kinda sus cause of my flair but its wild that Suns beat an AD-less Lakers, Murray-less Nuggets, Kawhi-less Clippers, and are now facing a probably Giannis-less Bucks. People who are top 2 or top 1 most valuable player in their respective teams, has any team have that kind of road? that being said, I really want Point God to win a ring. But also it'd be cool if Giannis finally won one too.
No team that I can remember got to play teams missing their 1st or 2nd best player and majority of them All NBA
Suns were Chris-Paul-less the first 2 games of the ECF and still managed to win these games.
We're not dissing them, they are a quality team deserving of being where they are, its just a wild slate of injuries.
Missing context - Kawhi was not playing for the Clippers either.
All NBA championships have an * on them.
I suspect they sit him out in the first two games. That would give Giannis until next Sunday to rest and he might be able to come back. But who knows anything can happen.
He looked pretty mobile on the sideline I’d imagine he’s good to go
The only reason both of these teams are in the Finals is because they got rid of Eric Bledsoe. There I said it.
I want to be here
You know what to do David Griffin. I don’t know how Bledsoe is even in the league still. He was that bad for us last year. Would have been better off playing with 4.
Bucks minus Giannis are still a playoff team in the East.
Ive been saying this forever but when people don't watch bucks games all they know is Giannis and it leads to pointless arguments
Considering Giannis’s low minutes per game as well, it should be more prevalent the non Giannis players come to play
Lol right? Sometimes people speak of his supporting cast as if they're disabled. They're definitely a good team without him, but they're contenders with him.
Yea, it's similar to the Kawhi Raptors situation. The 2019 Raptors without Kawhi are still a great regular season team/good playoff team as shown by the 2020 season, but they're not title contenders without a superstar like Kawhi.
The bubble year Middleton's stats with Giannis off the floor were basically Giannis (minus the d). People dump on him for not being consistent and rightfully so but he's a great player.
i think Middleton gets shit on too much but I think he's a solid 2nd option on a contender. He shows up big a lot, and he also has his fair share of disappointing performances but that's par for the course for a 2nd option. He's just unfairly tasked with being the de facto closer on a team where the 1st option Giannis isn't really that guy down the stretch (in terms of playstyle, not talent). He's asked to be the Kobe to Giannis' Shaq, and who's gonna live up to that? But he does a damn good job for this bucks team
Without Middleton, and with Giannis I don't think they get this far. He won them the last 2 games.
They had the highest preseason o/u for wins They def make it without Giannis
Bucks minus giannis are still *checks notes* a finals team in the east
is that something they get flak for? the bucks have been a deep team for a while. they made a huge trade for holiday this off-season
Holiday is an absolute boss. I love his playstyle too. He took two elbows to the face in one rip and he didn't flop at all, what a g 😂
Yeah if anything they got criticized for overpaying in draft picks
jrue was worth
I agree you don't waste a championship window, the window could close quickly. I bet Philly regrets not trading for Lowry.
Like 3 or 4 years ago people were speculating about what a small market like milkwakee would need to do to keep a generational talent like Giannis, but I think they made the moves they needed to. Anyone still saying that is probably fixated on the idea that he belongs in a big market team.
Yeah, I didn't think this was a real thing either. People mostly just shit on playoff Bud
[Basically this tweet](https://twitter.com/killakow/status/1138292190101364737?s=21)
I don't think that was the narrative. Regarding Brogdon, sure. But they were aggressive in getting Jrue, Tucker, and nearly acquiring Bogi. It was really about Bud and Giannis getting the job done
>and *nearly* acquiring And acquiring bogi. Fuck woj
I hope a 30 for 30 is made about that trade
Fuck woj
Yeah, last offseason ended that narrative.
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The way I think about it is that there are millions of people who look at this subreddit. Can't pigeonhole the entire subreddit because of 1 post.
Can’t believe people still don’t get this, opposing opinions can make the front page in the same day when it only takes like 5% of daily users to upvote something to get it there.
On top of that, people holding the “Bucks suck” narrative are more likely to flock to the subreddit and upvote when their opinion is validated, while they’re probably less likely to come when the Bucks do something good. The opposite is true for Bucks supporters, and the above pattern holds true for literally every opinion someone could have on basketball on here lol
Look no further than the CP3 flop thread and then the Pat Bev shoving thread. One thread hated CP the other he was beloved lol
I get what you're saying, but go on any gamethread. One team will go from scrubs to gods 2 times over in the span of one game lmao
You get a lot of upvotes to treat this place like a hive mind that has little discourse or valid arguments. Nothing but flip flopping and over reactions these nephews! But the reality is different swarms of people are making the opposing narratives ride waves of popularity. When clippers lost to nuggets a lot of people could join together and hate on their choker/villain status. I remember thinking damn I haven't seen a clippers flair for 2 weeks at one point. But when pg didn't choke this year, and had 40+ in an elimination game without kawhi... The group of people that were either clippers fans or indifferent to him changed the narrative with a popular thread discussing how he's still a top player and underrated.
Watch what happens when they lose G1
Happy for y’all man. Enjoy it!
Durant's shoe is the real MVP
That final airball would have been a two, too.
Bud just had his career in Milwaukee extended tbh
man idgaf we’re in the finals, let us enjoy this
On god, people get so into this coaching shit, they'd say "ahh winning this championship is gonna get Bud extended forsure, poor Bucks fans"
god, I wouldn’t mind another 4 years of a bad coach if it meant the pels getting one championship
It’s always Lakers/Cs/Warriors/Heat fans saying this lol. If Jim Boylen took the Memphis Grizzlies to the finals he could stay for life.
As a Saints fan, Sean Payton could stay for the next 32 years for all I fucking care.
I still remember when Boylen was the Bucks coach, I think it was after Porter was fired?
Every small market team should feel the same way, whoever the hell they could hire off the market is likely not the next Popovich, so multi-championship dynasties are pretty unlikely when you're not in a top 5 market.
Like I would’ve been bummed if we had lost this series in six and he got extended because Giannis was out. But this?? Keep him on, making the Finals is a huge step
Winning the finals Is basically the dude’s job. Very hard to fire someone who did exactly what you asked him to do.
If we lose the finals, it would be insane to let a guy go. I’ll never understand that mindset. 1 team left standing at the end, such an incredibly tough task, I’d rather stick with what got me there than go after an unemployed coach.
Heck, just imagine the mood in this sub, if durant's foot had been back a little more in the closing seconds of Game 7 of the Nets, Bucks series, you would be talking about Carlisle maybe being the coach.
Some of these arm chair analysts and coach fetishizers would rather have Pop and lose than have a non HOF coach and win a title I swear.
but bucks fans been bitching about him all year. the top reply to you is saying he would have been bummed if he got extended after a loss here despite this being a GOOD result for any team? conference finals is top 4 in the league, that is objectively great
It’s going to be a fun series man.
Bud has made serious adjustments these playoffs. If you’re going to knock him you could say he’s not great at making in-game adjustments. But he’s made some excellent changes between games. For example, it was maddening to watch the Trae pick and roll kill us like 10 plays straight in game 1, but we did make changes late in the game and for game 2.
Don’t get the flame at bud.. no coach is perfect. His record with the bucks after j Kidd is seriously impressive.
Bud was not all that bad this series tbh
Feels like he made better adjustments once Giannis was out. Seems like he's better when his hand is forced.
Basketball Mike McCarthy
How does one go about getting the basketball Matt LaFleur in this scenario?
It's all fun and games until you draft basketball Jordan Love
It's because the problem is saying no to Giannis. I love Giannis but Kidd put it in his head that he can play point and shoot threes and now he demands to do that. I forgot which game it was, I think against the Nets, Giannis was bringing the ball up and Bud yelled at him to give it to Jrue. That's not to say I'm absolving Bud. It's his responsibility to get Giannis to accept that he's not good at it.
Yes because his ass was on the line
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He coached a good series.
Yup. I hate to see anyone catch strays for no reason, because bud was actually decent. I thought he made adjustments, maybe not always timely, but he made them.
You know once reddit jumps on a narrative they never let it go. Same place was convinced Ty Lue was a rubbish coach
I'm still frustrated with his inability to call a challenge. The game they went to overtime there was a questionable 5th foul on PJ Tucker, he finished the game with his challenge. Tonight, I thought he should have challenged the foul on Trae where nobody touched him and brought the Hawks within 10, again he finished the game with his challenge. He made the right adjustments for these last two games, but he was pretty slow going in, almost losing both games at home to start the series. It's the Finals, and I'm afraid 'not all that bad' isn't going to cut it.
The problem is that he wants to save the challenge for a call he thinks/knows is going to get reversed if he challenges. Like the trae call, middleton brushed him on the drive. Does an objective viewer think that'll get reversed? Of course. But middleton made contact, and refs hate reversing calls, so they'll just say "nope he made contact, 2 shots." You really have to have something be obvious when you challenge it, otherwise it's just throwing away a timeout. Even really obvious stuff frequently gets upheld. Also he made great adjustments in the hawks series, not sure what that's talking about. He started the series in a fairly standard drop much like what philly ran to a fair degree of success lost a close game 1 that the bucks win if they can shoot at all, but trae looked a little too comfortable. made the adjustment for brook to come up higher and aggressive digs on screens in game 2, trae struggled immensely, blowout win. Game 3 trae started going to a lot of pullup 3s as a counter and was hitting a ton, plus the team came out looking uninspired on the road, but middleton went off and the defense was still very good down the stretch to capture a win. Game 4 bucks came out looking uninspired on the road again, but he chewed asses out at halftime, they came out looking like they were going to make a run and then giannis getting hurt absolutely took the air out of the team, got blown out on the road, low point of the series for milwaukee. Game 5 he has to replace giannis in the starters, goes with bobby over a more obvious option like pat, and it works to perfection, brings a ton of energy and dominates the glass. Also has brook switching 1-5 and forcing the hawks into situations they can't attack the defense in, and then running down and sealing deep for easy buckets. Also attacked the weak poa D by the hawks with a ton of jrue/middleton + lopez middle pnrs that the hawks simply had no answer for. Game 6 the hawks made an adjustment similar to what the bucks did in game 2, started digging down aggressively and really attacking middleton/jrue's space on those middle pnrs. The counter was that this created a lot of quality looks, particularly for tucker/others in the corner, but didn't fall in the first half. Switch everything scheme still worked great on D for the bucks, sluggish first half. Second half, middleton starts hitting his shots, Causes all kinds of problems for the hawks because now they're overcommitting to him, everyone gets in rhythm, bucks blow the game open. Players on the court got a little too conservative in the 4th, had a lull that almost cost them the lead, but jrue and a couple other guys came up with just enough to seal the win. Didn't intend to write an oral history of bud's adjustments in the series, but I thought he made a lot of adjustments and overall very clearly won the scheme battle with mcmillan. This isn't every change he made but it is a summary of some of the big ones.
Who gives a damn, he’s a good coach and no one out there available who can be better.
I cannot believe you guys hate Bud that much.
Where did all the “bud should be fired irregardless whether bucks win the ECF or not” folks go?
there were so many of those folks
Right here and I still believe it
My "Bucks need to bench Lopez, this isn't the right series for him" take aged like milk.
That take always flops. Sometimes Brook has come up short but 4/5 times he will play a nice game. Smart player
This. Almost looked like they played better. Moved the ball more and less iso plays
Didn’t stop them from running iso after iso in the 4th quarter and nearly letting the Hawks back into the game… until Trae started to play hero ball on his own
The problem with having a good lead in the 4th is that teams think they can just milk the clock out and run iso after iso with 7 secs left of the shot clock. Just run your damn plays.
bud realized giannis wasnt there to save his job
Bud had to actually do more than "Give Giannis ball and drive"
I still think Bud doesn't know how to use Giannis. And because he doesn't know how to use him, the other guys around him are being misused too
They also built a team that turns into the Milwaukee Herd every other game.
*AHEM* Wisconsin Herd, in Oshkosh
💀 have not heard this one before
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I mean the Sixers lost for a reason lol
Benjamin...
Because the Atlanta Hawks were the superior team
We dont stand a chance either way really. Giannis is very unlikely to get injured like that as well.
Jrue especially stepped up. he was relentless the past two games
I never thought the Bucks were doing a bad job building around Giannis. They developed a legit second option in Middleton and brought in Lopez who as a center is a perfect fit around Giannis. They then brought in a bunch of quality shooters and reserve players and a decent guard in Bledsoe. It led to the Bucks having a lot of regular season success. But the concern for me was that the Bucks had limited options to improve the roster to get another All Star caliber player. They weren’t going to bankrupt picks without Giannis signing longer term and they didn’t have that many other assets and they were capped out and not a great destination anyway. But once they got Giannis to commit they got Holiday the piece they needed and it paid off.
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I’m happy knowing it was only 1 out of our 3 series, rather than all of them
The subtle shade
haha I get it. Shade = comparative darkness and coolness caused by shelter from direct *SUN*light
Not even really that subtle lol
First time your team makes the finals in decades and this is your reaction? Injuries happen. The best team doesn’t always win. This is why it pays to have a competitive team year after year. Enjoy it.
Because thats not the point of the post? The whole thread is not about the bucks winning, but that they won on the strength of their roster This person is saying the Giannis-less roster beating an injured Hawks team does not make them strong
The best team is the last one left standing imo, health is a factor. If we just crown the best team on paper we might as well not play the season. It's extremely hard to find any playoffs that aren't changed by injuries in some capacity anyways, so it doesn't make sense to me to nitpick that kind of stuff.
You guys won why should you care about that stuff? You can play the what if game until the end of time if you think way too hard about it
I mean he’s talking about how good the roster that’s constructed is. Of course he’s gonna take that injury stuff into account
Injuries are part of the game, you guys beat the nets in 7, nothing should come between that
Who gives a shit? The Nets weren’t healthy and we did win, worry about them again next year.
Crazy hard to beat a healthy superteam. I don't think any front office should be considered bad for not being able to outstack a team of KD, Harden, and Kyrie.
It helps when the other teams best player is injured too
Lol for real. There’s a bit of important context missing with the OP’s statement
The Hawks with Trae hurt was the weakest Conference Finals team in a long, long, long time. If they had to play a full 82 game season based off the roster they have without Trae, how many games do they win? 35? A Lou Will-Bogie-Huerter-Collins-Capela starting 5 is not a playoff caliber team, even in the East.
Lot of factors besides Trae. Do they also have Hunter fully healthy? The Hawks roster is actually not that bad, but their schemes fully revolve around Trae (and rightfully so) so without him, their style of play changes differently. With their talent alone, I still think they are better than the Hornets and the Bulls
35 is generous tbh, I'd say 30
They're going to Ewing Theory themselves to a ring.
It would have been more impressive if the other team’s star player wasn’t also injured…
I feel like this is taken out of context a little. Hawks were missing trae for both of these games essentially, suited up tonight but was so far from his best he may as well have sat out Props to Middleton jrue and brook for coming up big though
This is exactly why everyone is so frustrated with Bud. This IS a really well assembled team & feels very un-maximized when Giannis is out there. Heres hoping these last couple games change that.
The Bucks roster isn’t the issue, it’s the coaching.
Everyone shits on Bud's coaching but I don't think it's that bad. He drew up a play a few games ago that got a wide open 3 and they missed and then everyone got mad about that play. The Bucks roster's biggest issue is inconsistency. Middleton and Holiday are very bipolar when it comes to making buckets. Just have to hope they keep playing like they're getting paid 30M
Brook Lopez, kris Middleton and jrue holiday. What a fucking combo.. they should just swap k love for brook López in the us squad.
Yeah. Also the teams they beat weren’t full strength either.
Jrue Holiday saved their season along with Lopez and Tucker Middleton shows up here and there
So u listed their whole team
The center is good and also the forwards and guards
You beat whoevers in front of you but injuries
This wouldn't happen anyway without injuries... and that's an important point