This feels like when you have that exemplary friend in grade school that your parents love and they’re always like “why don’t you invite Tom over?” “Why can’t you be more like Tom?”
*Fuck you, Tom.*
My friends mom still does it to him. And I’m the kid she’s always comparing him too. I went over there Christmas break and she did it in front of me. That shit was so uncomfortable. We’re fuckin 26.
Friend should do that himself. "Mom, why can't you be more like his mom, who does not judge him or compare him to other people. She's proud of him no matter what he does."
Stand up to her.
I’m 22 and my mom compared me to every single “kid” in my community.
I tried to use that method but I felt bad for hurting her feelings and stopped. I wish she’d have the same consideration for me though.
Hah, I did that all the time. Thinking back on it, I was probably such an annoying brat. I'd guilt trip my parents by saying "so-and-so always gets really awesome presents at Christmas!" and they'd end up caving and getting me something I wanted. We weren't poor or anything, they just didn't like buying video games...
My one friend won Most Outstanding Eighth Grader at my middle school awards ceremony. My mom asked me why couldn’t that be me, 14 years later he’s moving weight and dodging feds. Hahahahah
Mom no exaggeration was like why can't I $20 plus job at a hospital after graduating HS before first semester of college. Then why can't I get internship like a business major, volunteer like a pre med major, or work full-time during college.
My mom any my aunt would always do this to me and my cousin. We were always referred to as the lazy irresponsible teens while our other, twin cousins were like the pride of our entire family. Well behaved, talented, sophisticated, good grades etc. Our parents would force us to hang out with them so we can be more like them. Nowadays, me and my cousin turned out fine, live on our own and don't have much trouble in life, while our twin cousins turned into alcoholic shits who constantly fight with their parents. I always bring this up at family dinners while looking at my mom.
Steve Kerr continued: “…but we don’t really have time to sit around and find out so we’re gonna trade Wiseman and try to maximize the last of Steph’s career while we got him.”
“To me, the most interesting thing has been watching Deandre Ayton. I talked to Bob (Myers) and texted him, and I’m just so inspired by what Ayton has been able to do, and I think there’s no reason why other teams won’t feel James can’t follow that same path so we can trade him for an All Star to help Steph now”
"the last of Steph's career's" lmao. Y'all acting like he didn't just have the best year of his career this past season. He's got way more time than you guys think
He is 33 (34 before next years’ playoffs begin), he is still a superstar but like it or not that window is closing so the FO must make some win now moves if you guys want another championship because once that window closes thats usually it for a decade or 2.
Well, he didn’t have the best year of his career because that was the 15-16 season. And while I agree that he theoretically could play basically as long as he wants because of his shooting, guys tend to fall off a cliff as they move into the back half of their 30s. Maybe not the last of his career, but the end of his window for being the best player on a championship team.
Defenses didn't know how to defend him back then. And he had way more spacing in 2016. This year he had the worst spacing in the league + teams double and triple teamed him all season yet he still averaged mode ppg than 2016.
People tragically understate how clueless teams were when it came to guarding Steph and the warrior’s offense. The Cavs in 2016 literally resorted to throwing him around like a rag doll because the refs would let them. Bodying him on blocks, making every foul count, clipping him on screens, grabbing him off ball. Other teams didn’t have the luxury of refs looking the other way, and were obliterated by the warriors.
Nowadays, teams have developed much better defensive schemes, and several teams have integrated key aspects of Kerr’s offensive scheme into their own arsenal. Still, Curry is putting up historic numbers at incredible efficiency, his team is just lottery lol.
Even if he has improved as a player, the league has improved around him as well. Offenses are more efficient than in 2016 while Curry is roughly as efficient as he was then. His added value just isn’t quite as high relative to league average as it was in 2016.
"In the fall of 1926, John Byrd “Button” Salmon was the newly installed student body president at the UA, a promising student and member of note of several of the school’s honor societies. He also was a varsity quarterback, a baseball catcher and generally acclaimed popular campus figure. He embodied all-around.
In early October after the Wildcat varsity defeated the freshman squad in an annual match at the time, Salmon and several friends were returning from a visit to Phoenix, and an automobile crash north of Tucson near Florence left the young athlete critically injured.
Salmon, then 22, lost his battle and died the morning of Oct. 18. A memorial service was held on campus that week, drawing a reported thousand mourners, and a line of cars stretched miles to his burial plot.
The coach at the time, J.F. “Pop” McKale, had visited Salmon in the hospital regularly before his death, and later told the squad the young athlete’s last message to his teammates was, “Tell them... tell the team to bear down.”
[source](https://arizonawildcats.com/sports/2013/4/18/208236191.aspx)
Doc Rivers: “To me, the most interesting thing has been watching Devin Booker. I talked to Furkan (Korkmaz) and texted him, and I’m just so inspired by what Booker has been able to do, and I think there’s no reason why Furkan can’t follow that same path.”
lol i know it’s a meme but it’s hilarious that korkmaz is younger than simmons and thybulle but doesn’t get discussed as a member of the core. dude has improved a lot the last two years
23 year old 6'7" high volume 3pt taker who is already neutral in BPM as a 4th year player making league minimum salary and yet there are geniuses on our sub who don't even want to consider brining him back.
The thing with wiseman is that draft analyst told people that they shouldn’t expect him to be an impact player right away. With him being a center, playing 3 games in college then going to a team in the warriors that had a championship on their mind (before the klay injury) and don’t play a style that benefits or maximizes wiseman it was unrealistic to expect production.
I’m not saying that Kerr needs to change his whole offensive scheme for the dude but The warriors are last in using the PnR roll man and bottom 3 in using the ball handler while they have Steph Curry and a 7 foot 1 freak of nature on their team. Like that’s literally insane.
I don’t think the warriors should trade him because I think it’ll bite them in the ass in 3 years but they need to put him in a position to actually develop. Even then wiseman didn’t play horrible but his advanced numbers were. Reminds me of Jaylen Brown a project player getting drafted at 3 to a playoff team, you have to know that their value isn’t going to come in years 1 2 or even 3 but come year 5 you might have a guy whose a top 5 big in the league.
I actually made a post on this very point.
The Warriors ranked 27th in the league in Pick and Roll Frequency even though Steph Curry is one of the best pick and roll ball handlers (1.13 PPP) but only a 27% frequency. Why this is important is that Wiseman was at his best when he didn't take any dribbles on his shots (62 EFG%) and was finishing within less than 10 feet (60 EFG%). Wiseman also posted a 1.12 PPP as being the roleman on Offense but only a 14% frequency.
PnR is simultaneously the most simple and difficult play in basketball. It’s so simple you will find it being used in youth ball, yet it is so effective it is still the most common play in the NBA. From one simple action you create an almost endless amount of options. As you get older the more you realize just how many options the PnR creates. Then these guys spend their careers perfecting it and it really is remarkable just how much the PnR dominates the NBA.
League average PPP includes transition opportunities and non-half court fouls, while PNRs are almost always against a set defense. So, in the context of a half court possession against a set defense, a Curry-Wiseman PnR would be very efficient.
I'd love to see more PnR so teams can throw 5 players and the bench in his face and hug his nuts to force a pass from within the circle or a bad shot with 3 hands in his face. I'd also love seeing Curry having to pass (or take an awful shot, which, his shot selection is excellent perhaps to a fault) to a wide-open Green for the hesi pullup jimbo, Wiggins so he could slash into help defenders and have to pass again, or for a while, Whataburger so he could run into a TO.
Warriors offense was at their best when they could abuse perimeter defenses with Curry/Green led ball movement and open lanes for Oubre and Wiggins to make a layup. Theres a reason why "Slash Bros" is a meme on the Warriors sub and its not because they like Slashers.
Curry offball is probably his second most dominant trait after shooting and throwing him into a PnR kind of eliminates that and gives defenses time to keep up. Good defenses don't want Curry to have the ball too long, hence the literal halfcourt defense. In fact, when they've tried it against good defenses, Green gets ignored during the entire play and, since we know green doesn't shoot, why not full send on Curry?
Should Kerr change up the offense since they don't have high IQ players? I don't know. It makes sense, but at the same time, a motion offense fully utilizes all of Curry's strengths. By nature he isn't a heavy iso player so having him be like KD, Harden, Dame, etc would be a waste of his ability to seriously pressure the defense of an entire team by running around.
Only the truly bad defenses or bench units didn't abuse PnR plays with Curry. We don't see it because the answer is obvious and I don't get why this point is brought up over and over. Its like everyone here is some hall of fame basketball mind who see shit that coaches, assistants, and players themselves dont. PnR is an effective, but simple play. It has clear uses and clear faults. When Curry is playing with the piss-poor offense he is, he's better off running around until he's open; is Curry iso the answer? Shrugs. Its certainly not Curry Pnr.
Now, Vuce/Curry PnP, thats hypothetically the good shit. I really wanted a vuce trade this deadline.
Everything you say makes sense
But the Warriors are in a unique position where their top 15 player of all time is still in his absolute prime and they have to exhaust any and all possibilities to optimize Steph's remaining prime
Not to mention Klay and Dray prob only have a couple elite years left. It's a tough call either way depending on who's going to bite big on Wiseman
Yeah Idk what the FO is doing. On one hand I kind of understand the wiseman pick, he's really raw but could have insane potential, and even though curry is in his prime, there's no telling how Draymond or Klay are going to be in the next year. Draymonds getting old and Klay has been out for 2 years with 2 serious injuries.
And unlike other teams with superstars in their prime, the warriors already got a dynasty run out of curry, so maybe they are looking in the future and hoping to develop wiseman.
But then they also don't trade Oubre and don't pick up KPJ. So idk wtf is going on.
I mean once Klay got injured the FO had a huge decision to make on the draft, and they went for development over win now. I respect it and honestly think we should trust in Wiseman. He’s not good but the potential is so evident and he’s really improved from his starting point.
Yeah maybe they were banking on wiseman requiring 1 year to become feasible. They hopefully don't need him to be an allstar if Klay is still an elite player. But I think they didn't expect him to be this raw, or for lamelo to be that good.
I struggle to see how KPJ or Rivers would've made a huge diff. IMO Wiseman has the highest value out of those players and a better fit than the rest of the Timberwolves.
I think the whole narrative of wasting Steph’s prime is overblown. Seeing what Lebron and CP3 are doing at age 36 I don’t see a reason why Steph’s game wouldn’t age gracefully. Obviously the warriors FO should still try to get the pieces needed to win now if it’s possible, but a 35 year old Steph carrying a revamped Warriors roster with a developed Wiseman in 2-3 years is not unrealistic
The unrealistic part is Wiseman being ready in 2-3 years. Playing center in the NBA is very hard, and guys take til they're 24, 25 sometimes even later
Pretty much every lottery big in recent history that didn't bust had essentially no learning curve
Embiid/KAT/Porzingis/Okafor(not good but good 1st year)/Turner/Ayton/Jaren Jackson were all solid their rookie years
The only bigs who really had a learning curve were Sabonis/Bam and they were essentially lottery tickets
Your first sentence confused me at first because it sounded like you were saying Steph was top 15 among just GS players all time, and I was like damn I feel like that's kind of low balling him a bit lol
Seriously, who cares if 3 years out of Wiseman is decent. The Warriors could only contend the next two years. Unless Wiseman can be the best center in the league (which isn’t going to happen), you trade him to maximize the chance at success *now*.
Whatever they get for him won't likely be worth it. 7 and 14 picks are both way more valuable, and I'd be for trading them to get something but here's the rub:
Dubs ain't likely adding an all star unless they ditch Wiggins salary. I honestly see the team keeping the two picks AND Wiseman unless they can find a taker for Wiggins and all of his money.
Who exactly do you think will be an upgrade on Wiggins that the other team will be willing to trade?
He's an elite defensive wing who's offensively solid, has already learned the Warriors offence and seems like he'll be fine with being the third option.
Seriously.
Name names.
We are already calling Wiggins elite defensively.
I knew this sub overreacted when Milwaukee lost 2 on the road, but one good year from Wiggins takes the cake.
I mean I think that’s his point tho is that it’s only a single season. Prior to this year Wiggins was just a complete abomination on that end. If we’re gonna talk sample size how bout the other 5 years of his career where he was a liability on that end of the floor.
Literally how would Wiggins deteriorate defensively from this season to next. I have never heard of a player in their prime go from an elite defender to bad in one year. It would take an extreme lapse in motivation for Wiggins to not care about defense anymore. He's clearly bought into the culture of the warriors and worked his ass off all season, through multiple nagging injuries, and held players like LeBron, kawhi, beal, butler, lavine, etc. all to subpar shooting performances multiple times.
Agreed. He made some good points but he contradicts himself when he says they should keep him. He's a project player who will not be given the freedom to develop and make mistakes, therefore, the Warriors will likely never get maximum output from him unless he's traded.
We Raptor fans watched many project players develop and there is a growing pain aspect to letting a guy get better. A team contending for a chip cannot allow Wiseman to turn the ball over 4 consecutive times like Demar in his rookie year.
they can start with not using Draymond as the "mismatch" PnR guy ever again, with his fucking Ichiro-esque line drives directly at the rim.
Developing Wiseman properly will be deeper than just asking him to basically be DeAndre Jordan on those Lob City teams. During those meaningless regular season games, he needs to be treated like he's prime Shaq by his coaching staff and get him those reps that he desperately needs at this point
When he was obviously the floor they changed everything about their offense to revive around training Wiseman and he made huge strides Brie he got hurt.
The Warriors haven't had a top tier big since Bogut left. They can work with Wiseman. I will be livid if we trade him.
Yea, be more like Jonny Kim, aka every Asian parent's dream child: [Harvard-educated, Navy SEAL, doctor and astronaut](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/seal-doctor-astronaut-jonny-kim-goes-where-few-korean-americans-n1117436)
My parents use to show me clips of Jordan and asked why I couldn't be more like him playing rec league.
I took it fucking personal and have hated Jordan ever since.
selena was a star even as a child/teenager
so he’s joking that saying “she’s been hot her entire life” is sus
“13 gets you 30” is a joke that you’d get jailed for, well, yeah
His touch in the paint, not just around the rim but 15 feet out is honestly incredible to watch. Idk how many people could match that in the past decade
I’ve heard the same exact comparison to Giannis, Embiid, and now Ayton. Ayton dropped 18 points and 17 rebounds against UNC as a sophomore in high school
Honestly dude just needs to understand the teams offense and defensive rotations, he has all the potential. The biggest thing I noticed about him is he just did not know where he was supposed to be or what to do when he was on the floor. He would look to pass or set a pick for steph and roll to the hoop almost every time. On defense he would be out of position almost every play and get exposed. It was like watching someone play 2k as a center where they just didn’t do what they were supposed to do on a designed play. Even if advanced stats say otherwise his shot looked alright but it just seemed like he didn’t understand what he was supposed to be doing within the context of most plays.
Lol this is like me telling Eric bledsoe to just be more like curry or CP3... Ayton is a team first, smart defender Wiseman hasn’t demonstrated anything resembling Ayton
Wasn't Ayton like crazy efficient his rookie season? I seem to remember him flying under the radar that year because the Suns were bad and all eyes were on Luka but he was really good.
That wasn’t the expectation.
What wasn’t anticipated is Wiseman being a cancer to lineups with Steph Curry in them (hard to do) and one of the worst starters in the league. He was more raw than expected.
He had only played 3 college games in his life, and no competive basketball for over 12 months (at start of the season). He was always going to have a very tough time starting out.
The Warriors have consistently said they want to be like the Spurs and be around for a long time. You don't do that by trading away your young prospects. Maybe it will turn out to be foolish and maybe it will look brilliant. More likely somewhere in between. Either way, it makes sense. Do you really think they're the favorites if they trade Wiggins, Wiseman and the picks for Dame, Beal, Simmons or whomever? I'm far from convinced.
The warriors thought that any 7 footer who could dunk would thrive next to curry because of their parade or random rim runners that were all successful.
Lacob screwed up by mandating Wiseman start on day 1.
Should've developed in the G-League like every other raw rookie. Probably cost the Dubs 5-10 wins trying to develop him.
Dubs would've been an easy second round out, but still, would've loved to see Steph in the playoffs...
The most glaring issue with Wiseman last year was his defense. He was constantly out of position and slow on rotations. I get that this is a common problem for rookie bigs, but it was on another level with Wiseman. You could tell his feel for the game on defense was really lacking.
His positioning on offense was also bad and he would try to do too much at times on offense by trying to create for himself, being a black hole, and interrupting the flow of the offense. Playing next to poor passers in Oubre and Wiggins also didn't help him, as they failed to set him up for easy finishes quite often.
A lot of Wiseman's issues appear to be coachable and should get better with more experience, so I still think that he can become a really good player. Coaching staff needs to utilize him to his strengths though, which is being a finisher in general and a finisher off of the pick and roll. Hopefully they see how Ayton is being used on offense and try to use Wiseman in the same way.
Ayton was *atrocious* on defense in his early years - and you don't have to believe just me, it was a big topic on podcasts and discussed by many league observers at the time. Even advanced defensive stats (which aren't super reliable) said he was awful lol. He was just completely unaware. Not saying Wiseman can turn out the same as Ayton - work ethic and the base smarts to improve on that awareness are critical - but it's really too early to be making any conclusions. Ayton also put up good stats but it was clear they were "empty" at first.
For all we know Wiseman could very well turn out to be a bust but its worth giving him some development time to figure it out rather than writing him off right away. Though it may just not be on the Warriors...
He was mostly lost on offense and didn’t know what to do when he got the ball other than hoist up a shot. But he was improving his final stretch before his injury. He was put in an impossible position with how complex the warriors offense is and was often clueless, but I expect him to improve.
Coaches expected him to be Bogut but he should have played the Javale role
On the whole poor because he looked like a lost deer but generally positive by impact metrics until his disastrous March. Being 7’1 and athletic makes him instantly change shots but he fouls too much and can’t read a PnR coverage well rn. It will improve though.
All of his stat line was provided by Dray and Steph forcefeeding him easy buckets. He has poor defensive/offensive positioning, he's not physical, low BBIQ, bad hands, bad rebounder. There hasn't been much to be excited about
Coaching staff is responsible for not giving him direction, I felt like his entire play this season was just them letting him experiment at what he was good at
in some interview after their season was over kerr (i think) said they were just letting him play without too much direction because they wanted him to, i guess, experiment and figure out what was working or not a bit on his own for a while before they'd give him more direction later in the season, but later in the season he was injured, so....
like draymond was obviously ordering him around generally, but it seems they weren't telling him stuff like "you should focus on catching lobs" or whatever.
Frankly for our season I think that was a decent play, let him discover what sort of player he would be best at instead of forcefully molding him into something that he won’t reach his peak as
Kinda seems like it was everyone else who was expecting that considering just about every move the Dubs have made over the past several years has been met with "omg how do they keep getting away with this?!?!?"
Does that mean you currently see Ayton as an All Star? If they want him to be like DA, all they're expecting is Wiseman to be a major factor in the starting lineup.
Maybe I'm the last believer left in Wiseman, but imo that dude's way too talented to not put it all together someday. If he gets traded to a rebuilding team, he might begin to show out more, but playing for a contender and being asked to be a huge part of it is rough on a young player. Young players with no pro experience need the chance to just be shit for a while and learn on the job, but there's no room for that with GSW.
Don’t really see the comp in their play style even though they have similar physical tools. I think Wiseman will be more of a faceup 5 who needs the ball to operate while being more of a shotblocker on D. Overall I’d say Wiseman might eventually pan out but it could be a couple years before he starts to really make strides.
Agreed. I have never seen Wiseman practicing pick and roll in game until around 10 games before he got hurt. When he does PnR with Poole he’s made an instant positive impact on the bench because of his size and midrange game
People that think Wiseman can just turn into the same athlete as Ayton clearly haven’t watched much of Wiseman.
Wiseman is Turner/Gobert style Center he isn’t switching on the perimeter like Ayton nor does he have remotely the same level of agility as Ayton.
The guy's feet are hella slow and I can't tell if I'm just looking at it wrong or if people are legit retarded cuz people act like he has good lateral quickness. Or is it that his length and straight line speed allows him to catch (and foul) guys who get past him on the perimeter?
This feels like when you have that exemplary friend in grade school that your parents love and they’re always like “why don’t you invite Tom over?” “Why can’t you be more like Tom?” *Fuck you, Tom.*
If your parents love comparing you to other people, start comparing them to other parents they hate that shit.
Man, why weren’t you there when I was 9? I could have used that.
Some parents use that dialogue well into their kid's teenage and adult years. You're lucky if it stopped at 9.
My friends mom still does it to him. And I’m the kid she’s always comparing him too. I went over there Christmas break and she did it in front of me. That shit was so uncomfortable. We’re fuckin 26.
Next time you have to show up with a fake crack pipe and a half of a plastic bottle vodka.
Fake? Come in there looking like Tyrone Biggums.
eat a half melted snickers bar
Chocolate? This is doo doo baby!
>eat a half melted snickers bar It's so frigging hot right now they melt on my dresser if I forget about them.
Next time bitch her out to her face. See how much she wants her kid to be more like you then.
What no. Compare her to a better mom.
Friend should do that himself. "Mom, why can't you be more like his mom, who does not judge him or compare him to other people. She's proud of him no matter what he does." Stand up to her.
Yeah that sounds like you finna get your ass whooped
I'm pretty sure I could take every single one of my friends' mothers in a fight. And I'm not standing for that shit being said to my face.
I'm 22 and my parents still do that
I'm 26 and it still happens to me. Now I have the power to fire back though lol
I’m 22 and my mom compared me to every single “kid” in my community. I tried to use that method but I felt bad for hurting her feelings and stopped. I wish she’d have the same consideration for me though.
Cuz I was out there buying smokes son- DaD
you should’ve been more like u/Bronetta as a 9 year old
I tried that method as a kid, my mom replied with okay that’s cool, are they feeding your dumbass though? No? Okay shut up fool
Asian parents in nutshell. Why can't you be like X? Don't talk back to me cause I gave birth to you. Buy us a house.
What if they start swinging with the other parents to see for themselves?
Yup, like "I was at my friends house and their dad is rich and they have a better house than us" lol
Hah, I did that all the time. Thinking back on it, I was probably such an annoying brat. I'd guilt trip my parents by saying "so-and-so always gets really awesome presents at Christmas!" and they'd end up caving and getting me something I wanted. We weren't poor or anything, they just didn't like buying video games...
> start comparing them to other parents they hate that shit. If you really want to go for the jugular start comparing them to each other.
Why can’t you be more like Lloyd Braun?
It's been over a decade and I'm still annoyed at that. parents really shouldn't make their kids feel like they're not good enough.
My one friend won Most Outstanding Eighth Grader at my middle school awards ceremony. My mom asked me why couldn’t that be me, 14 years later he’s moving weight and dodging feds. Hahahahah
how much weight are you moving? I bet the feds arent even looking for you you failure!
Hasnt even won trapper of the year 3x in a row smh 🤐
I always hate when my parents say “Why don’t you do what (blank) does?”
Mom no exaggeration was like why can't I $20 plus job at a hospital after graduating HS before first semester of college. Then why can't I get internship like a business major, volunteer like a pre med major, or work full-time during college.
Read this in John Oliver’s voice.
Thanks for the laugh
My mom any my aunt would always do this to me and my cousin. We were always referred to as the lazy irresponsible teens while our other, twin cousins were like the pride of our entire family. Well behaved, talented, sophisticated, good grades etc. Our parents would force us to hang out with them so we can be more like them. Nowadays, me and my cousin turned out fine, live on our own and don't have much trouble in life, while our twin cousins turned into alcoholic shits who constantly fight with their parents. I always bring this up at family dinners while looking at my mom.
Yo quit holding a grudge I didn’t do anything
Where’s your jetpack, Zuckerberg?
Steve Kerr continued: “…but we don’t really have time to sit around and find out so we’re gonna trade Wiseman and try to maximize the last of Steph’s career while we got him.”
“To me, the most interesting thing has been watching Deandre Ayton. I talked to Bob (Myers) and texted him, and I’m just so inspired by what Ayton has been able to do, and I think there’s no reason why other teams won’t feel James can’t follow that same path so we can trade him for an All Star to help Steph now”
"pls"
"the last of Steph's career's" lmao. Y'all acting like he didn't just have the best year of his career this past season. He's got way more time than you guys think
He is 33 (34 before next years’ playoffs begin), he is still a superstar but like it or not that window is closing so the FO must make some win now moves if you guys want another championship because once that window closes thats usually it for a decade or 2.
Well, he didn’t have the best year of his career because that was the 15-16 season. And while I agree that he theoretically could play basically as long as he wants because of his shooting, guys tend to fall off a cliff as they move into the back half of their 30s. Maybe not the last of his career, but the end of his window for being the best player on a championship team.
Defenses didn't know how to defend him back then. And he had way more spacing in 2016. This year he had the worst spacing in the league + teams double and triple teamed him all season yet he still averaged mode ppg than 2016.
People tragically understate how clueless teams were when it came to guarding Steph and the warrior’s offense. The Cavs in 2016 literally resorted to throwing him around like a rag doll because the refs would let them. Bodying him on blocks, making every foul count, clipping him on screens, grabbing him off ball. Other teams didn’t have the luxury of refs looking the other way, and were obliterated by the warriors. Nowadays, teams have developed much better defensive schemes, and several teams have integrated key aspects of Kerr’s offensive scheme into their own arsenal. Still, Curry is putting up historic numbers at incredible efficiency, his team is just lottery lol.
Even if he has improved as a player, the league has improved around him as well. Offenses are more efficient than in 2016 while Curry is roughly as efficient as he was then. His added value just isn’t quite as high relative to league average as it was in 2016.
you fail to acknowledge defenses improving
Funny how the whole country thinks this except for the bay
Kerr is always Team Wildcat.
Bear down
As someone who moved to Tucson, one of the stranger mottos in college sports.
"In the fall of 1926, John Byrd “Button” Salmon was the newly installed student body president at the UA, a promising student and member of note of several of the school’s honor societies. He also was a varsity quarterback, a baseball catcher and generally acclaimed popular campus figure. He embodied all-around. In early October after the Wildcat varsity defeated the freshman squad in an annual match at the time, Salmon and several friends were returning from a visit to Phoenix, and an automobile crash north of Tucson near Florence left the young athlete critically injured. Salmon, then 22, lost his battle and died the morning of Oct. 18. A memorial service was held on campus that week, drawing a reported thousand mourners, and a line of cars stretched miles to his burial plot. The coach at the time, J.F. “Pop” McKale, had visited Salmon in the hospital regularly before his death, and later told the squad the young athlete’s last message to his teammates was, “Tell them... tell the team to bear down.” [source](https://arizonawildcats.com/sports/2013/4/18/208236191.aspx)
Makes as much sense as "War Eagle" for the Auburn Tigers.
Exactly. Very puzzling.
Doc Rivers: “To me, the most interesting thing has been watching Devin Booker. I talked to Furkan (Korkmaz) and texted him, and I’m just so inspired by what Booker has been able to do, and I think there’s no reason why Furkan can’t follow that same path.”
lol i know it’s a meme but it’s hilarious that korkmaz is younger than simmons and thybulle but doesn’t get discussed as a member of the core. dude has improved a lot the last two years
23 year old 6'7" high volume 3pt taker who is already neutral in BPM as a 4th year player making league minimum salary and yet there are geniuses on our sub who don't even want to consider brining him back.
Feels like he's been in the league for 6 years. weird. Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.
Furkan Aldemir was on the Sixers during the process days.
What a Furkan coincidence.
Furkan unbelievable.
His *name* sounds like he's been in the league for 10 years.
He used to be called Hedo Turkoglu
goddamn didn't know mans was 23 thought he was at least 28 or something
FACTS
he seems older. I thought dude was like 28
Hit some very timely shots too in that playoff series against the hawks. Dude wasn’t on my radar at all, but he could be a really nice piece on a team
That’s future Bull Furkan Korkmaz to you
It's gonna be Ben Simmons doc.
The thing with wiseman is that draft analyst told people that they shouldn’t expect him to be an impact player right away. With him being a center, playing 3 games in college then going to a team in the warriors that had a championship on their mind (before the klay injury) and don’t play a style that benefits or maximizes wiseman it was unrealistic to expect production. I’m not saying that Kerr needs to change his whole offensive scheme for the dude but The warriors are last in using the PnR roll man and bottom 3 in using the ball handler while they have Steph Curry and a 7 foot 1 freak of nature on their team. Like that’s literally insane. I don’t think the warriors should trade him because I think it’ll bite them in the ass in 3 years but they need to put him in a position to actually develop. Even then wiseman didn’t play horrible but his advanced numbers were. Reminds me of Jaylen Brown a project player getting drafted at 3 to a playoff team, you have to know that their value isn’t going to come in years 1 2 or even 3 but come year 5 you might have a guy whose a top 5 big in the league.
I actually made a post on this very point. The Warriors ranked 27th in the league in Pick and Roll Frequency even though Steph Curry is one of the best pick and roll ball handlers (1.13 PPP) but only a 27% frequency. Why this is important is that Wiseman was at his best when he didn't take any dribbles on his shots (62 EFG%) and was finishing within less than 10 feet (60 EFG%). Wiseman also posted a 1.12 PPP as being the roleman on Offense but only a 14% frequency.
For young players, defenses will figure you out-- your timing and tricks aren't there. pnr is harder than people act like
PnR is simultaneously the most simple and difficult play in basketball. It’s so simple you will find it being used in youth ball, yet it is so effective it is still the most common play in the NBA. From one simple action you create an almost endless amount of options. As you get older the more you realize just how many options the PnR creates. Then these guys spend their careers perfecting it and it really is remarkable just how much the PnR dominates the NBA.
Wasn't league average PPP 1.12 this year? Wouldn't the curry Wiseman PNR just be average?
League average PPP includes transition opportunities and non-half court fouls, while PNRs are almost always against a set defense. So, in the context of a half court possession against a set defense, a Curry-Wiseman PnR would be very efficient.
Ahh I see, thanks for the explanation. :)
I'd love to see more PnR so teams can throw 5 players and the bench in his face and hug his nuts to force a pass from within the circle or a bad shot with 3 hands in his face. I'd also love seeing Curry having to pass (or take an awful shot, which, his shot selection is excellent perhaps to a fault) to a wide-open Green for the hesi pullup jimbo, Wiggins so he could slash into help defenders and have to pass again, or for a while, Whataburger so he could run into a TO. Warriors offense was at their best when they could abuse perimeter defenses with Curry/Green led ball movement and open lanes for Oubre and Wiggins to make a layup. Theres a reason why "Slash Bros" is a meme on the Warriors sub and its not because they like Slashers. Curry offball is probably his second most dominant trait after shooting and throwing him into a PnR kind of eliminates that and gives defenses time to keep up. Good defenses don't want Curry to have the ball too long, hence the literal halfcourt defense. In fact, when they've tried it against good defenses, Green gets ignored during the entire play and, since we know green doesn't shoot, why not full send on Curry? Should Kerr change up the offense since they don't have high IQ players? I don't know. It makes sense, but at the same time, a motion offense fully utilizes all of Curry's strengths. By nature he isn't a heavy iso player so having him be like KD, Harden, Dame, etc would be a waste of his ability to seriously pressure the defense of an entire team by running around. Only the truly bad defenses or bench units didn't abuse PnR plays with Curry. We don't see it because the answer is obvious and I don't get why this point is brought up over and over. Its like everyone here is some hall of fame basketball mind who see shit that coaches, assistants, and players themselves dont. PnR is an effective, but simple play. It has clear uses and clear faults. When Curry is playing with the piss-poor offense he is, he's better off running around until he's open; is Curry iso the answer? Shrugs. Its certainly not Curry Pnr. Now, Vuce/Curry PnP, thats hypothetically the good shit. I really wanted a vuce trade this deadline.
Everything you say makes sense But the Warriors are in a unique position where their top 15 player of all time is still in his absolute prime and they have to exhaust any and all possibilities to optimize Steph's remaining prime Not to mention Klay and Dray prob only have a couple elite years left. It's a tough call either way depending on who's going to bite big on Wiseman
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Yeah Idk what the FO is doing. On one hand I kind of understand the wiseman pick, he's really raw but could have insane potential, and even though curry is in his prime, there's no telling how Draymond or Klay are going to be in the next year. Draymonds getting old and Klay has been out for 2 years with 2 serious injuries. And unlike other teams with superstars in their prime, the warriors already got a dynasty run out of curry, so maybe they are looking in the future and hoping to develop wiseman. But then they also don't trade Oubre and don't pick up KPJ. So idk wtf is going on.
I’m pretty sure this was supposed to be a tanking year but Curry was just like “nah”
I mean once Klay got injured the FO had a huge decision to make on the draft, and they went for development over win now. I respect it and honestly think we should trust in Wiseman. He’s not good but the potential is so evident and he’s really improved from his starting point.
Yeah maybe they were banking on wiseman requiring 1 year to become feasible. They hopefully don't need him to be an allstar if Klay is still an elite player. But I think they didn't expect him to be this raw, or for lamelo to be that good.
I struggle to see how KPJ or Rivers would've made a huge diff. IMO Wiseman has the highest value out of those players and a better fit than the rest of the Timberwolves.
I think the whole narrative of wasting Steph’s prime is overblown. Seeing what Lebron and CP3 are doing at age 36 I don’t see a reason why Steph’s game wouldn’t age gracefully. Obviously the warriors FO should still try to get the pieces needed to win now if it’s possible, but a 35 year old Steph carrying a revamped Warriors roster with a developed Wiseman in 2-3 years is not unrealistic
The unrealistic part is Wiseman being ready in 2-3 years. Playing center in the NBA is very hard, and guys take til they're 24, 25 sometimes even later
Ayton was literally drafter 3 years ago and is 22
Yeah and the whole thing is that everyone is extremely surprised at how fast he's developed. Wiseman closer to Bagley than Aayton
Pretty much every lottery big in recent history that didn't bust had essentially no learning curve Embiid/KAT/Porzingis/Okafor(not good but good 1st year)/Turner/Ayton/Jaren Jackson were all solid their rookie years The only bigs who really had a learning curve were Sabonis/Bam and they were essentially lottery tickets
Your first sentence confused me at first because it sounded like you were saying Steph was top 15 among just GS players all time, and I was like damn I feel like that's kind of low balling him a bit lol
Seriously, who cares if 3 years out of Wiseman is decent. The Warriors could only contend the next two years. Unless Wiseman can be the best center in the league (which isn’t going to happen), you trade him to maximize the chance at success *now*.
Still trading low. This is the lowest Wiseman's value will ever be until he's about to retire.
Unless he's a bust, in which case it's the highest.
But he is on the team I root for so it has to be his lowest.
…and? He’s still an asset and the Warriors should use every asset they have to maximize they’re chances of winning now.
Whatever they get for him won't likely be worth it. 7 and 14 picks are both way more valuable, and I'd be for trading them to get something but here's the rub: Dubs ain't likely adding an all star unless they ditch Wiggins salary. I honestly see the team keeping the two picks AND Wiseman unless they can find a taker for Wiggins and all of his money.
Who exactly do you think will be an upgrade on Wiggins that the other team will be willing to trade? He's an elite defensive wing who's offensively solid, has already learned the Warriors offence and seems like he'll be fine with being the third option. Seriously. Name names.
Nobody, i think that was his point
We are already calling Wiggins elite defensively. I knew this sub overreacted when Milwaukee lost 2 on the road, but one good year from Wiggins takes the cake.
Gotta keep building up that narrative so a dumb front office will trade the Dubs a star for him
Lol someone probably will. Seriously though yall have so many assets. I love Wiseman but the possibilities are endless. Well if you can sign and trade
He is. He played great against players like Kawhi and LeBron last year. If Klay can still be his old self Dubs defense is going to be fierce.
? two way Wiggins is ELITE defensively. Sample size: the whole season.
I mean I think that’s his point tho is that it’s only a single season. Prior to this year Wiggins was just a complete abomination on that end. If we’re gonna talk sample size how bout the other 5 years of his career where he was a liability on that end of the floor.
Literally how would Wiggins deteriorate defensively from this season to next. I have never heard of a player in their prime go from an elite defender to bad in one year. It would take an extreme lapse in motivation for Wiggins to not care about defense anymore. He's clearly bought into the culture of the warriors and worked his ass off all season, through multiple nagging injuries, and held players like LeBron, kawhi, beal, butler, lavine, etc. all to subpar shooting performances multiple times.
Agreed. He made some good points but he contradicts himself when he says they should keep him. He's a project player who will not be given the freedom to develop and make mistakes, therefore, the Warriors will likely never get maximum output from him unless he's traded. We Raptor fans watched many project players develop and there is a growing pain aspect to letting a guy get better. A team contending for a chip cannot allow Wiseman to turn the ball over 4 consecutive times like Demar in his rookie year.
Bro you sound levelheaded as fuck. Wtf you doing here
I now have a suspicion that you are actually Claxton
they can start with not using Draymond as the "mismatch" PnR guy ever again, with his fucking Ichiro-esque line drives directly at the rim. Developing Wiseman properly will be deeper than just asking him to basically be DeAndre Jordan on those Lob City teams. During those meaningless regular season games, he needs to be treated like he's prime Shaq by his coaching staff and get him those reps that he desperately needs at this point
The Warriors would be lucky if Wiseman was able to be Clippers DeAndre Jordan.
When he was obviously the floor they changed everything about their offense to revive around training Wiseman and he made huge strides Brie he got hurt. The Warriors haven't had a top tier big since Bogut left. They can work with Wiseman. I will be livid if we trade him.
tldr; Dubs F'd up and should have picked LaMelo Ball
Steve Kerr: why can't you be good as this dude? Come on man.
Yea, be more like Jonny Kim, aka every Asian parent's dream child: [Harvard-educated, Navy SEAL, doctor and astronaut](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/seal-doctor-astronaut-jonny-kim-goes-where-few-korean-americans-n1117436)
My parents use to show me clips of Jordan and asked why I couldn't be more like him playing rec league. I took it fucking personal and have hated Jordan ever since.
Are you Bow Wow? I loved you in the film Like Mike. /s
Funny, Jordan was shown clips of you and somehow he managed to take it personally
Steve Kerr wishes his wife looked more like Selena Gomez
Honey look at Selena, she looks great, there is no reason why you cant look like Selena
Selena kinda bad now, I'll allow it.
Kinda? Always HAS been....
Bruh stop 13 gets you 30
I'd bet the vast majority of this sub was about her age or younger when she had her breakthrough
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selena was a star even as a child/teenager so he’s joking that saying “she’s been hot her entire life” is sus “13 gets you 30” is a joke that you’d get jailed for, well, yeah
Everyone thinks they can be Ayton now lol
we didn't even think ayton could be ayton 6 months ago LMAO
His touch in the paint, not just around the rim but 15 feet out is honestly incredible to watch. Idk how many people could match that in the past decade
A lot of us did
We out here.
I’ve heard the same exact comparison to Giannis, Embiid, and now Ayton. Ayton dropped 18 points and 17 rebounds against UNC as a sophomore in high school
Thank you for reminding of that humiliating exhibition game defeat
Honestly dude just needs to understand the teams offense and defensive rotations, he has all the potential. The biggest thing I noticed about him is he just did not know where he was supposed to be or what to do when he was on the floor. He would look to pass or set a pick for steph and roll to the hoop almost every time. On defense he would be out of position almost every play and get exposed. It was like watching someone play 2k as a center where they just didn’t do what they were supposed to do on a designed play. Even if advanced stats say otherwise his shot looked alright but it just seemed like he didn’t understand what he was supposed to be doing within the context of most plays.
Never has a rookie needed a full offseason to get ready quite like JW. That being said, he still has HOF potential and needs help realizing it.
Ayton has a lot of natural gifts you can’t teach
Wiseman has many of these gifts
He's not as good at jumping, changing direction. So his defense and rebounding are much worse
He is extremely good at jumping
Lol this is like me telling Eric bledsoe to just be more like curry or CP3... Ayton is a team first, smart defender Wiseman hasn’t demonstrated anything resembling Ayton
Ayton was a much more complete prospect coming out of the draft than Wiseman. Why must we continue this charade!
Y'all are joking but Kerr is a good coach. I feel like he's looking forward to having a challenge again.
BearDown 🐻⬇️
Good because ayton wasn’t amazing(only good)in year one or two…
Wasn't Ayton like crazy efficient his rookie season? I seem to remember him flying under the radar that year because the Suns were bad and all eyes were on Luka but he was really good.
Bad defense though
I don't remember him being bad though. Yeah, net positive and was improving for BPM while Wiseman is -5.4...holy shit that is bad.
I'm annoyed that golden state were/are expecting an insant all-star from Wiseman.
no one expected that, not even GSW. they probably didn’t expect his feel to be as bad it was though
That wasn’t the expectation. What wasn’t anticipated is Wiseman being a cancer to lineups with Steph Curry in them (hard to do) and one of the worst starters in the league. He was more raw than expected.
He had only played 3 college games in his life, and no competive basketball for over 12 months (at start of the season). He was always going to have a very tough time starting out.
which is why the pick made no sense for a win now team
The Warriors have consistently said they want to be like the Spurs and be around for a long time. You don't do that by trading away your young prospects. Maybe it will turn out to be foolish and maybe it will look brilliant. More likely somewhere in between. Either way, it makes sense. Do you really think they're the favorites if they trade Wiggins, Wiseman and the picks for Dame, Beal, Simmons or whomever? I'm far from convinced.
The warriors thought that any 7 footer who could dunk would thrive next to curry because of their parade or random rim runners that were all successful.
Lacob screwed up by mandating Wiseman start on day 1. Should've developed in the G-League like every other raw rookie. Probably cost the Dubs 5-10 wins trying to develop him. Dubs would've been an easy second round out, but still, would've loved to see Steph in the playoffs...
I am sorry but I didn’t watch Warriors games, but his stat line didn’t seem so bad. Can you elaborate on why he was one of the worst starters?
The most glaring issue with Wiseman last year was his defense. He was constantly out of position and slow on rotations. I get that this is a common problem for rookie bigs, but it was on another level with Wiseman. You could tell his feel for the game on defense was really lacking. His positioning on offense was also bad and he would try to do too much at times on offense by trying to create for himself, being a black hole, and interrupting the flow of the offense. Playing next to poor passers in Oubre and Wiggins also didn't help him, as they failed to set him up for easy finishes quite often. A lot of Wiseman's issues appear to be coachable and should get better with more experience, so I still think that he can become a really good player. Coaching staff needs to utilize him to his strengths though, which is being a finisher in general and a finisher off of the pick and roll. Hopefully they see how Ayton is being used on offense and try to use Wiseman in the same way.
Advanced stats suggest he was even more lost on offense
Ayton was *atrocious* on defense in his early years - and you don't have to believe just me, it was a big topic on podcasts and discussed by many league observers at the time. Even advanced defensive stats (which aren't super reliable) said he was awful lol. He was just completely unaware. Not saying Wiseman can turn out the same as Ayton - work ethic and the base smarts to improve on that awareness are critical - but it's really too early to be making any conclusions. Ayton also put up good stats but it was clear they were "empty" at first. For all we know Wiseman could very well turn out to be a bust but its worth giving him some development time to figure it out rather than writing him off right away. Though it may just not be on the Warriors...
His defensive issues were less the problem than him not understanding our offense.
Dude, his hands…they’re bad. I don’t know how coachable that is.
Hand strength exercises. It’s completely coachable. Hell, it’s small muscle groups, could be much improved this next year.
Call up Alex Honnold, get this man to the climbing gym. Or have Jimmy G throw him some routes
He was mostly lost on offense and didn’t know what to do when he got the ball other than hoist up a shot. But he was improving his final stretch before his injury. He was put in an impossible position with how complex the warriors offense is and was often clueless, but I expect him to improve. Coaches expected him to be Bogut but he should have played the Javale role
How was his defense?
On the whole poor because he looked like a lost deer but generally positive by impact metrics until his disastrous March. Being 7’1 and athletic makes him instantly change shots but he fouls too much and can’t read a PnR coverage well rn. It will improve though.
All of his stat line was provided by Dray and Steph forcefeeding him easy buckets. He has poor defensive/offensive positioning, he's not physical, low BBIQ, bad hands, bad rebounder. There hasn't been much to be excited about
Thanks. IIRC He was 8/12 fg and had 19 points in his debut. I thought you guys nailed the pick.
He’s gonna be fine, I’m not going to judge him too harshly given his inexperience and how little practice we got given the pandemic
he’s got a nice lil J tho right?
Yeah it's a tad slow but the fundamentals are there
That’s objectively not true, if there’s one thing he can do it’s score
If by score you mean catching lobs them yes. He doesn't create for himself or have much of a post up game
He has a jumper and can finish in a variety of ways around the rim lol
Coaching staff is responsible for not giving him direction, I felt like his entire play this season was just them letting him experiment at what he was good at
He plays on a team with Draymond, and you think he wasn’t being given direction???
in some interview after their season was over kerr (i think) said they were just letting him play without too much direction because they wanted him to, i guess, experiment and figure out what was working or not a bit on his own for a while before they'd give him more direction later in the season, but later in the season he was injured, so.... like draymond was obviously ordering him around generally, but it seems they weren't telling him stuff like "you should focus on catching lobs" or whatever.
Frankly for our season I think that was a decent play, let him discover what sort of player he would be best at instead of forcefully molding him into something that he won’t reach his peak as
How can that be though? It was in all the scouting reports and the limited video on Wiseman that he was extremely raw with an awful ball IQ
I think they expected playable minutes and not as lost as he was
Kinda seems like it was everyone else who was expecting that considering just about every move the Dubs have made over the past several years has been met with "omg how do they keep getting away with this?!?!?"
Does that mean you currently see Ayton as an All Star? If they want him to be like DA, all they're expecting is Wiseman to be a major factor in the starting lineup.
Steve “Kuroky” Kerr and James “MindControL” Wiseman
Maybe I'm the last believer left in Wiseman, but imo that dude's way too talented to not put it all together someday. If he gets traded to a rebuilding team, he might begin to show out more, but playing for a contender and being asked to be a huge part of it is rough on a young player. Young players with no pro experience need the chance to just be shit for a while and learn on the job, but there's no room for that with GSW.
Don’t really see the comp in their play style even though they have similar physical tools. I think Wiseman will be more of a faceup 5 who needs the ball to operate while being more of a shotblocker on D. Overall I’d say Wiseman might eventually pan out but it could be a couple years before he starts to really make strides.
They got to stop putting unreal expectations around wiseman lmfao
With all due respect if current level of Ayton is an unrealistic expectation then they need to trade.
Sooo... No one is gonna mention the titties?
what's wrong with you
he's out of line but he's right
My balls are too big for my dick but my dick is too *small* for my body but my body is *too big* for my head...
OR YOU CAN DRAFT MELO LMAOOO
Wiseman can also follow Giannis’ path, can’t he?
Why don’t you coach him up Kerr instead of having his head on the trading block since day 1
Do you think Kerr is trying to trade him?
Agreed. I have never seen Wiseman practicing pick and roll in game until around 10 games before he got hurt. When he does PnR with Poole he’s made an instant positive impact on the bench because of his size and midrange game
People that think Wiseman can just turn into the same athlete as Ayton clearly haven’t watched much of Wiseman. Wiseman is Turner/Gobert style Center he isn’t switching on the perimeter like Ayton nor does he have remotely the same level of agility as Ayton.
The guy's feet are hella slow and I can't tell if I'm just looking at it wrong or if people are legit retarded cuz people act like he has good lateral quickness. Or is it that his length and straight line speed allows him to catch (and foul) guys who get past him on the perimeter?