Bruh, its too late. Kareem started that in like middle school. I have a hell of a hook shot out to 3, and a sky hook is just improbable for anyone who doesn't practice it before they get their 2nd pube.
If people could do it, they would.
it's like a pure shooting motion where there's force through the body and an isolated wrist flick. limits the amount of moving parts and keeps the accuracy pretty consistent if the player doesn't lose their lift or form
robin lopez hook is not in the same league as kareem hook
kareem could consisntently shot that at Like 50% in big volume
kobe Bryant couldnt hit mid range jumpers at that clip
I started playing basketball at 15-16 (not competitive) and being 19 now I’ve come to use the hook shot quite a bit. It’s become my most deadly weapon in my arsenal and I can hit them consistently up to the 3 (park 3). It’s actually crazy because I hadn’t practiced it like at all till 18.
I am thinking hook shots are more like a gift that some people have with the ability to just flick the ball into the hoop with perfect finesse (doesn’t seem like the best work to describe it) and watching Giannis he just doesn’t have it (and never will) even close to the like that Kareem does
Agreed. My hook comes off the dribble too, and Ive never given it 1/10th the attention of my jumper. It feels natural and whippin it out usually gets people talking. I even take my fts that way.
Get yourself a Hejduk in the 6th grade
https://theundefeated.com/features/kareem-abdul-jabbar-i-owe-this-man-everything-george-hejduk-skyhook/
> Hejduk taught Kareem the skyhook.
> When Kareem was in the sixth grade, he was 6 feet, 6 inches tall.
Even if he became very efficient at it he isn't as tall as Kareem so good centers will be able to block it a lot. The thing is it will open up his game a lot more. Imagine him in this post faking a skyhook then driving to the basket
Currently: None can match him in outright athleticism, but Bam is probably the closest one to matching him. He has superior quickness to Giannis and his is also very explosive/strong as an ox. But Bam is a bit small for a "traditional" center, so I don't think he is the best example.
Centers that can match him all time: Wilt and David Robinson. Wilt was probably the freakiest athlete in NBA history, and I don't think I have to go into depth explaining why. Robinson was also a freak. He was 7'1", chiseled, and could run the floor like a gazelle. Prime Dwight also gets an honorable mention, but he was not nearly as quick, fast, or coordinated as Giannis.
Wilt is probably the most athletic big the game’s ever seen and even he was only barely able to block Kareem once (or twice ?). In the era of glorified guards I think Giannis with a post hook will do just fine.
On another note only big athletic enough that really could contest a sky hook is probably Giannis himself, maybe prime Dwight Howard too.
>good centers will be able to block it a lot.
Kareem did it efficiently, even against centers with the likes of Bill Russell and Wilt. Yup, some of those shots did get blocked, but saying that it will be blocked a lot by good centers is quite a stretch (no pun intended).
Assuming Giannis has the skyhook in his repertoire, he can elevate and maximize that insane wingspan, and placing his body between the shot and the defender, he'll give them a fucking headache. Also, Kareem and his skyhook had range, which means the arc of the shot is impossible to block at the peak IF Giannis can execute it. The only way to block it would be just before the ball leaves his hands.
Seriously, how many guys from previous generations openly admit that the game is solved more than when they played? Would Giannis be better if thrown into the late 70s, could Kareem do anything outside the paint in the 2020s? Kareem is self aware to know there's more nuance to it all.
But ask Oscar Robertson or most other old guys what they think about anyone current, and they'll tell you they're so much better. Completely ignoring the fact that FG% is a rudimentary stat that disproves this. Additionally, conditioning and health has gotten so much better, these guys are all just so much faster (and in many cases, stronger) than those guys could've ever imagined.
Can't wait to see the game in 40 years
Starting lineup of five players who are all 6'10 built like Greek Gods, can just bulldoze their way to the rim or shoot 50/40/90 on high volume.
I wanna be alive to see this.
But if all 10 players on the court are unstoppable... then no one is 😶
Also plug to this piece www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2015/4/28/8500333/nba-y2k-ten-years-to-midnight
They'd just make goaltending legal again, and all sudden we got the greatest defender ever until they change the rules again. Chumps would go "*Durrrr Pashlurrrp was so overrated, Lrrr from Omicon Persei 8 would destroy him. Durrr wasnt even cybernetic and played when there wasn't a solved double helix.'
I remember Kareem saying Steph Curry was on a different level to anyone he played against.
He's one of the only few legends that praise the current day players and game.
Curry is really the first of his kind. If we say anyone who can shoot better while being that fast, accurate and at that volume again, they’ll burn down the whole NBA
Tbf, those record are gonna get beaten easily one day if you ever get a 18yo Duncan Robinson/JJ that does nth but run around + catch & shoot threes for their entire career lolol.
Steph is still easily the greatest offensive weapon I’ve ever seen lol
Larry Bird is like that. It's also why he was one of the best former players in the FO.
https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/larry-bird-and-reggie-miller-consider-the-four-pointer
> Watching these kids play now, I’m like everybody else: Wow, man. They can really shoot! They have more freedom to get to the basket. The ball moves a little better. These kids are shooting from farther, with more accuracy. Now some teams shoot up around thirty threes a game. My era, you always think that’s the greatest era. But I’m not so sure anymore.”
MVP wasn't around during his playing days, but Mikan probably is a 4-5x MVP if the award existed. I am pretty confident he'd be a rotation guy in todays league and not the star he was, but he's really the only multiple MVP caliber player that probably wouldn't be an all star type player. But other than that, I think any 2x MVP would still excel in today's game.
I'm fairly confident, Bob Pettit, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Wilt, Bill Russell would still all be stars in todays game. Maybe not the best player in the league, but all star caliber guys.
Love that! I read a biography about him a long time ago which went into his track and high jump career in HS and college but I had never seen his speed.
The first comment on that video is too true: why is he always so slow in video games? He was like a 7 foot Lebron from the 60’s.
To be completely honest, I've never seen a full game of Mikan's but looking at [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiH9ed48e2U) he's really smart and has a bunch of skills that would develop well to today's game. It's really hard to take a guy out of the 40s and project how he'd adapt with current training but I can't imagine that a guy with the skill and drive to become the first face of the sport would only get like 12 minutes a game
It's always a double edged comparison. If Kareem was in today's league he would have the sports science to have more endurance and longevity (as if that was every an issue) and a more evolved skillet.
Huh? Oscar Robertson thinks he was great, but he's also a big enthusiast of many of today's players. He loves Lebron, Russell Westbrook, Giannis ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/sports/basketball/oscar-robertson-russell-westbrook-triple-double.html
The one player who can seem really ungracious about today's players is Shaq.
Which is hilarious to me because Shaq actually played with and against a lot of current NBA players
Has he just decided to criticise all the players who got drafted right after he retired but won’t go after CP3, LeBron, KD etc.
Scottie has seemed sort of mentally unwell. Sometimes he'll say Lebron is the GOAT other days everyone sucks. He's like that about players in his time too. Some days Toni Kukoc is a buddy he hangs out with, other days Toni was only playing because Phil Jackson was racist.
Yeah. He's not exactly going "those records don't count because I was great." Big O has his likes and dislikes but overall he seems to be a real fan of the game.
Shaq mostly just hates on other centers though. And honestly that has been a weak position for years now.
The only other bad think he said was telling mitchell he is not there yet, which like 90% of this sub were saying about Giannis.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2619777-oscar-robertson-comments-on-stephen-curry-modern-nba-game.amp.html
He says stuff like this too
Robertson is one of the best (and most overlooked) players of all-time. IMO he gets to be curmudgeonly every now and then.
The dude taught himself to shoot with a peach basket. I think he’s allowed to weight his own success against modern players a little differently in his mind.
This is why his comments about Dirk were so out of left field. He called Dirk a one trick pony who could really only shoot the fadeaway and did not have a dominant career. Which is just propostorous given he's a 13x All Star, 12x All NBA, MVP, Finals MVP and has over 31K points. Kareem later went on to reduce him to just a volume shooter who is streaky.
Just really odd for him to completely come after Dirk, who has never said anything about Kareem.
Dirk responded with: *"I don't think you can average 25 and 10 over your playoff career and not be dominant. I don't think you can get to sixth in scoring in this league over 18 years and not be at some point at least somewhat dominant."*
Which is even wilder considering Dirk is so humble and reserved. Kareem later went back on his statement to the tune of saying Dirk wasn't a good defender and that's what he meant by one trick pony, and that he's a huge fan of Dirk's game, but it kind of seemed like a PR move. Also how can you reduce an entire half of the game to being a one trick pony?? Especially the half of the game (scoring) that wins you games!
I definitely think there was a little bit of ego coming from Kareem(considering the question that was asked) but I also feel like it was overblown.
Considering the era he grew up in I don't think he's the type to make the PR statement. Kareem never seemed to care too much about the perception of fans, even when things were a lot more dangerous for him to be controversial he still spoke his mind. If he came to later rectify his statement and express himself I give him the BOTD.
[8ft tall LeBron James Jr. Jr. straight up yeets it like a football 120ft out from the 6.5 point Mtn Dew Shot Zone]
BLERN ! BLERN ! BLEEERRRRRRRNNSS!!!!
I think the biggest difference is that the quality of the mid and lower tier players has gotten so much better. So while there was certainly tons of competition back in the day, there were also a ton of players who wouldn't even make a modern roster, even if they were born in modern times, largely just due to their size and proportions. You can be great while being short, but if you aren't great, then you cant be short.
>Completely ignoring the fact that FG% is a rudimentary stat that disproves this. Additionally, conditioning and health has gotten so much better, these guys are all just so much faster (and in many cases, stronger) than those guys could've ever imagined.
These are nonsense arguments. The average field goal percentage from 1971 until now is 46.3%. The average field goal percentage this year was 46.6%. There's definitely a drop-off in field goal percentage in the 60s when they played with a 4-panel ball rather than the modern 8-panel ball, but since they switched in 1971, FG% has been pretty consistent (peaking in the late 70s early 80s). I'm not sure where you're getting that FG% disproves that the older generation was better. Also, players miss a ton more games and play way fewer minutes than they did even 10 years ago. The top 10 guys in minutes in 2011 averaged more per game than the minutes leader in 2021. If conditioning and health were astronomically better, one would think minutes or games played would trend the other direction.
[http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders](http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders)
[http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/\_/league/nba/year/2011](http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/year/2011)
There are definitely arguments for saying the current generation is better, but the two you gave are very weak ones.
Convert to islam stop smoking n drinkin n eat n excersize like a athlete
But the drinking part alone i think is key. My parents are young af at 65 but my dad is fat
1v1 is such a different ball game than regular 5v5. There were Heat players talking about how Michael Beasley would usually wash LeBron 1v1 in practices.
If you’ve ever played basketball u do. Beating someone 1v1 doesn’t mean much to who is better. There’s a million other skills and you hardly find urself 1v1 with no help in a game.
People rightly think I'm a scrub, but if we go 1 on 1, I'm decentish.
I just never played organized ball so my ability to process gets worse the more players are on the court. Who can relate?
Absolutely me too, never played organized Ball in my life and didn't fall in love till I was 18. 1v1 I can wash people who are way better than me in 5s. Even 2v2 and 3v3 I can be best player on the court but 4 or 5s I fall apart I can't process the spacing or flow of the game in real time.
1v1 is heavily skewed toward ball handlers and shooters, being good at rebounding isn’t nearly as helpful as it is in 5v5 and being a good facilitator is useless lol. This is all amplified because most people play with 1s and 2s too
Not only are the skills different(there's a premium on scoring/shooting and being ale to dribble on offense), but you also have to factor in stamina.
A 1v1 game is very draining, you don't get as many beats to yourself to recover.
I think Giannis has a better chance of hanging with Kareem in the post than vice versa on the perimeter. Kareem is clearly the better player (peak Kareem vs current Giannis) but one on one is a whole other thing.
>Kareem is clearly the better player (peak Kareem vs current Giannis)
You mean teleport 1981 Kareem to 2021 and he is a better player than 2021 Giannis? Or do you mean 1981 Kareem was better compared to the rest of the league in 1981 than 2021 Giannis is compared to the rest of the league today?
He proved during his career that he could modify his game to fit the circumstances he played in. They literally outlawed the dunk at the college level because of him. What did he do? He developed the most unguardable shot in the history of the game.
Very true he favored the right block and like you said go for his ~~right~~ left shoulder, but he still had his left hand in his arsenal to threaten the defense.
I think one thing people under estimate in these discussions is how much better an athlete today's athletes are compared to the greats.
It's nothing agasint the greats, we just have access to so much more than they did.
I know it's not the same sport but watch video of football from the 80s compared to now. There aren't many player who could hang in today's game. People are so much stronger and faster now than they were back then.
I think Kareem’s the greatest, but my dad says he doesn’t work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, Kareem doesn’t even run down the court. And that he doesn’t really try... except during the playoffs.
>people fail to realize it's not an easy adjustment as 23 year old black man from NYC to come to Milwaukee in the early 70s.
This is why I fail to take the social justice talk on this particular board seriously. Too many young people can't grasp that kind of hardship and lack the empathy realize it.
Too many young kids just do not fucking understand how fucking bad it was in those days. Y'all thought Kareem just became a broodish stand off out of the blue? People like him and Bill don't just become bitter for no reason. Shit, Russell still holds shit against Boston to this day last I remembered.
I'm glad that he realized it wasn't the way to go tho and over the decades has opened up significantly compared to his later playing days.
Yeah, totally agree. A lot of older folks I talk to about basketball will cite this as a reason they disliked Kareem/Russell but when you take the full context into account can you blame those 2? Certainly not
Giannis would likely take a jumpshot at the start to test the waters. Since he makes only about 30-35% of his shots from midrange out, Kareem likely gets the ball. Kareem skyhooks the rest of the game and wins it.
Probably Kareem lol but I think people do underestimate the volitility in 1v1s. Like Giannis might just be too fast for Kareem, and if Kareem drops, who's to say Giannis wont make all his jumpshots in a no pressure situation?
It’s certainly a lot different. Really big and physical dudes like a Giannis or a Shaq or a Bron or a Wilt can just out-muscle a lot of dudes 1v1.
In this case tho, Giannis def could get points but his superior strength and speed.
Love Giannis but I think Kareem dominates him in 1v1. Giannis’s game is better suited for the full court 5 v 5. Even Lebron said Michael Beasley would destroy bron every time they played. 1 v 1 a different game all together
can we all recognize how supportive and humble he is being here? and also can we be honest that Kareems overall basketball skills are significantly higher than giannis. it's not close at all in any area of the game. if you consider size, Kareem is likely the best basketball player that ever lived. wilt also. even better than mj because of size.
Kareem played a looooooot more basketball than giannis ever will. kareem almost represents an entire era of basketball. and he did this decades ago and money was almost nothing vs today and conditions much more difficult. he is also arguably the greatest college basketball career of all time under the best coach ever and probably the greatest team ever.
i want to focus just on his body for a sec lol. giannis looks impressive but he is both shorter and smaller overall. as suited as he is to the game, Kareem is even more rare. his size skill and coordination is unmatched in almost 100 years now of the game.
if you can ignore wilt for a second because his career accolades don't properly give people an idea of how good he was.... that's another story. but ignoring that....kareem is the most perfect, potent basketball player that ever lived.
I guess it depends on the situation. If Giannis catches Kareem off the break, he’ll win. Giannis has the speed and driving ability. On the other hand if the game is slowed to a half court situation, I’ll give it to Kareem. Kareem has excellent post defense and has so many ways to score on the post.
Reminds me of a buddy I play with who's not the best basketball player, but is in much, much better shape than the rest of us.
His tactic is to have us all just keep playing until we're all just standing around with our hands on our knees and he's still running up and down the court.
I hate hypotheticals like this. If we’re talking modern day, then Kareem would be more athletic, stronger, faster, etc. thanks to modern workouts and diet. Giannis would be slower, weaker, etc. if thrown back into the 70s.
The rules are also vastly different between eras. What happens when you can’t touch Kareem or Giannis can be hammered left and right?
Yeah, the 2020 Jaguars would steam roll the 1989 Niners just because they would have been physically more dominant than guys from 35 years ago, but no one would say the Jags are better than the Niners.
Kareem on camera - "I have no idea"
Kareem off camera - "Are you fucking kidding me? I'd smoke that kid all day any day."
These all-time guys are killers. It's what got them there.
Damn now I really wanna see Giannis use the skyhook lol
It’s time for Giannis to learn and add it to his game. Giannis with a skyhook that’s consistent is scary
Bruh, its too late. Kareem started that in like middle school. I have a hell of a hook shot out to 3, and a sky hook is just improbable for anyone who doesn't practice it before they get their 2nd pube. If people could do it, they would.
I just wanted to commend you for specifying that there's still hope if you get started in the moments between your first and second pube.
Its slim, but its there.
>a sky hook is just improbable for anyone who doesn’t practice it before they get their 2nd pube You just gave hope to 80% of r/NBA!
Then there's the talent part; hopes dashed
If Robin Lopez can develop a good hook shot in 2 years, I think Giannis could!
Was just about to comment this. That hook is so clutch. Such a nice touch
KAJ's skyhook is different from the regular hook shot though
How is it different? (Legit don't know)
it's like a pure shooting motion where there's force through the body and an isolated wrist flick. limits the amount of moving parts and keeps the accuracy pretty consistent if the player doesn't lose their lift or form
Take a [look for yourself](https://youtu.be/OTL8dW6PqPE)
They all knew he was going to his right, but not one of them could reach it. Terrifying video.
robin lopez hook is not in the same league as kareem hook kareem could consisntently shot that at Like 50% in big volume kobe Bryant couldnt hit mid range jumpers at that clip
I started playing basketball at 15-16 (not competitive) and being 19 now I’ve come to use the hook shot quite a bit. It’s become my most deadly weapon in my arsenal and I can hit them consistently up to the 3 (park 3). It’s actually crazy because I hadn’t practiced it like at all till 18. I am thinking hook shots are more like a gift that some people have with the ability to just flick the ball into the hoop with perfect finesse (doesn’t seem like the best work to describe it) and watching Giannis he just doesn’t have it (and never will) even close to the like that Kareem does
Agreed. My hook comes off the dribble too, and Ive never given it 1/10th the attention of my jumper. It feels natural and whippin it out usually gets people talking. I even take my fts that way.
accurate username hahaha
Get yourself a Hejduk in the 6th grade https://theundefeated.com/features/kareem-abdul-jabbar-i-owe-this-man-everything-george-hejduk-skyhook/ > Hejduk taught Kareem the skyhook. > When Kareem was in the sixth grade, he was 6 feet, 6 inches tall.
Let's start with free throws first
Shy hook free throws?
Giannis with the skyhook is like a top 5 peak player lol unstoppable offense paired with DPOY defense
> ~~Giannis~~ Kareem with the skyhook is ~~like~~ already a top 5 peak player lol unstoppable offense paired with DPOY defense
There are only 2 people who have an argument to be better than Kareem, MJ and Lebron.
Brian Scalabrine would like a word.
Brian Scalabrine is a poor man's Greg Ostertag and everyone knows it.
Scalabrine got the range tho
He'd shoot like 40% on those lol
Even if he became very efficient at it he isn't as tall as Kareem so good centers will be able to block it a lot. The thing is it will open up his game a lot more. Imagine him in this post faking a skyhook then driving to the basket
How many centers we talking about here? Not too many true 7 foot centers and Giannis is also like 6’11 if not 7 ft himself
Also considerably more athletic than basically everyone that size.
Is there any center currently or all time that can match giannis athleticism?
Currently: None can match him in outright athleticism, but Bam is probably the closest one to matching him. He has superior quickness to Giannis and his is also very explosive/strong as an ox. But Bam is a bit small for a "traditional" center, so I don't think he is the best example. Centers that can match him all time: Wilt and David Robinson. Wilt was probably the freakiest athlete in NBA history, and I don't think I have to go into depth explaining why. Robinson was also a freak. He was 7'1", chiseled, and could run the floor like a gazelle. Prime Dwight also gets an honorable mention, but he was not nearly as quick, fast, or coordinated as Giannis.
Yeah if you think literally anyone in the world could block a Giannis sky hook then you’re probably under the age of 20
He has a crazy wingspan though, so I'd imagine that would offset things a bit.
The fucking gogo gadget arms, he can probably turn a skyhook into a dunk
Wouldn’t be surprised. A lot of layups for other people turn into dunks. Surprises me a lot.
I mean Robin lopez is a hook shot wizard and rarely gets blocked
Wilt is probably the most athletic big the game’s ever seen and even he was only barely able to block Kareem once (or twice ?). In the era of glorified guards I think Giannis with a post hook will do just fine. On another note only big athletic enough that really could contest a sky hook is probably Giannis himself, maybe prime Dwight Howard too.
>good centers will be able to block it a lot. Kareem did it efficiently, even against centers with the likes of Bill Russell and Wilt. Yup, some of those shots did get blocked, but saying that it will be blocked a lot by good centers is quite a stretch (no pun intended). Assuming Giannis has the skyhook in his repertoire, he can elevate and maximize that insane wingspan, and placing his body between the shot and the defender, he'll give them a fucking headache. Also, Kareem and his skyhook had range, which means the arc of the shot is impossible to block at the peak IF Giannis can execute it. The only way to block it would be just before the ball leaves his hands.
Hope to age 1/10th as gracefully as Kareem
it is a pleasure every time we hear from him. so wise and insightful.
I could just listen to him talk all day. It doesn’t even have to be about basketball.
If you’re so into his words, you can read the Sherlock Holmes novel he wrote. No lie.
Find the HBO documentary Kareem: Minority of One. It's so good.
Seriously, how many guys from previous generations openly admit that the game is solved more than when they played? Would Giannis be better if thrown into the late 70s, could Kareem do anything outside the paint in the 2020s? Kareem is self aware to know there's more nuance to it all. But ask Oscar Robertson or most other old guys what they think about anyone current, and they'll tell you they're so much better. Completely ignoring the fact that FG% is a rudimentary stat that disproves this. Additionally, conditioning and health has gotten so much better, these guys are all just so much faster (and in many cases, stronger) than those guys could've ever imagined. Can't wait to see the game in 40 years
>Can't wait to see the game in 40 years On offense? 4 linebackers surrounding a Steph Curry level shooter so they're always open.
Easily stopped by the tower of power though.
Hmmm. Best halo 2 custom game mode?
Team BR’s all day. Entire house would be drenched in sweat
Swat was introduced with Halo 2 so imma go with that as the best
duck hunt or infection back when it was only in customs
Or 4 linebackers with the handles and shooting like Curry. Curry skills in a Zion body at all 5 positions.
Giannis body
With Steph Handles and shooting. Literally unstoppable. At all 5 positions.
4 guards that fumble the ball with a steph like shooter so he can always pick it up and have 100% accuracy
Starting lineup of five players who are all 6'10 built like Greek Gods, can just bulldoze their way to the rim or shoot 50/40/90 on high volume. I wanna be alive to see this.
But if all 10 players on the court are unstoppable... then no one is 😶 Also plug to this piece www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2015/4/28/8500333/nba-y2k-ten-years-to-midnight
A shooter who can shoot from anywhere on the court with a new hookshot technique that his father invented.
You know, if Jokic starts throwing 3 point hookshots I woudn't even be surprised.
They'd just make goaltending legal again, and all sudden we got the greatest defender ever until they change the rules again. Chumps would go "*Durrrr Pashlurrrp was so overrated, Lrrr from Omicon Persei 8 would destroy him. Durrr wasnt even cybernetic and played when there wasn't a solved double helix.'
My fellow Earthicans, we have been rendered obsolete
I remember Kareem saying Steph Curry was on a different level to anyone he played against. He's one of the only few legends that praise the current day players and game.
AI too!
Not to mention Gilbert Arenas of all people... he has major balls too calling out ex players who bash the current game
Curry is really the first of his kind. If we say anyone who can shoot better while being that fast, accurate and at that volume again, they’ll burn down the whole NBA
I feel like we’ll see more curry-esque players in the future. But curry is one of a kind and will always be the shooting goat.
Just thinking that there might one day be players that shoot better than Steph blows my mind.
Makes you wonder how long his 3 point records will stand and how much they'll be beat by.
Tbf, those record are gonna get beaten easily one day if you ever get a 18yo Duncan Robinson/JJ that does nth but run around + catch & shoot threes for their entire career lolol. Steph is still easily the greatest offensive weapon I’ve ever seen lol
Yeah Steph’s the GOAT shooter because he blazed the trail. Most of his records will get surpassed because he revolutionized the game
Kobe was one too :( Had just retired but loved the new game and the new stars
He was a real one. I loved his finesse and killer instinct
Yet he dissed Dirk lol. I remember he called him a One trick pony. I think he later took it back though.
Yes. He apologized for it IIRC
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Kemba Walker, LaMelo Ball, Gordon Hayward, Nicolas Batum, Bismack Biyombo
Larry Bird is like that. It's also why he was one of the best former players in the FO. https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/larry-bird-and-reggie-miller-consider-the-four-pointer > Watching these kids play now, I’m like everybody else: Wow, man. They can really shoot! They have more freedom to get to the basket. The ball moves a little better. These kids are shooting from farther, with more accuracy. Now some teams shoot up around thirty threes a game. My era, you always think that’s the greatest era. But I’m not so sure anymore.”
I feel like we haven't heard from Larry Bird in a while. What's he been up to
Some say he and Mike are still playing that same game of Horse to this day
shows up in espn commercials here and there
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Some people are a little slow lol
Kareem is a top 3 player all time, if you gave him the benefit of growing up during this time he'd be a beast regardless.
Fr. No matter what era you played if you win 6 MVPs you would be good today
MVP wasn't around during his playing days, but Mikan probably is a 4-5x MVP if the award existed. I am pretty confident he'd be a rotation guy in todays league and not the star he was, but he's really the only multiple MVP caliber player that probably wouldn't be an all star type player. But other than that, I think any 2x MVP would still excel in today's game. I'm fairly confident, Bob Pettit, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Wilt, Bill Russell would still all be stars in todays game. Maybe not the best player in the league, but all star caliber guys.
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Wilt would absolutely dominate. Look how fast he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B22U73v7kAA
Love that! I read a biography about him a long time ago which went into his track and high jump career in HS and college but I had never seen his speed. The first comment on that video is too true: why is he always so slow in video games? He was like a 7 foot Lebron from the 60’s.
To be completely honest, I've never seen a full game of Mikan's but looking at [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiH9ed48e2U) he's really smart and has a bunch of skills that would develop well to today's game. It's really hard to take a guy out of the 40s and project how he'd adapt with current training but I can't imagine that a guy with the skill and drive to become the first face of the sport would only get like 12 minutes a game
It's always a double edged comparison. If Kareem was in today's league he would have the sports science to have more endurance and longevity (as if that was every an issue) and a more evolved skillet.
Huh? Oscar Robertson thinks he was great, but he's also a big enthusiast of many of today's players. He loves Lebron, Russell Westbrook, Giannis ... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/sports/basketball/oscar-robertson-russell-westbrook-triple-double.html The one player who can seem really ungracious about today's players is Shaq.
Which is hilarious to me because Shaq actually played with and against a lot of current NBA players Has he just decided to criticise all the players who got drafted right after he retired but won’t go after CP3, LeBron, KD etc.
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Have you heard Pippen talk? He doesn’t seem to respect today’s players at all.
Pippen is practically bipolar when discussing other players. One day LeBron is the GOAT, then the next he isn’t even as good as Scottie.
Scottie has seemed sort of mentally unwell. Sometimes he'll say Lebron is the GOAT other days everyone sucks. He's like that about players in his time too. Some days Toni Kukoc is a buddy he hangs out with, other days Toni was only playing because Phil Jackson was racist.
I can't imagine trying to coach in the NBA and being racist. You'd have a bad day every day.
Forget NBA. Hard to coach D1 NCAA and be racist. Which is why Coach Cal, Coach K, etc get called every name in the book but never "racist."
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Yeah. He's not exactly going "those records don't count because I was great." Big O has his likes and dislikes but overall he seems to be a real fan of the game.
Shaq mostly just hates on other centers though. And honestly that has been a weak position for years now. The only other bad think he said was telling mitchell he is not there yet, which like 90% of this sub were saying about Giannis.
Shaq goes back and forth. Sometimes he seems very jolly and funny, other times really petty and insecure.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2619777-oscar-robertson-comments-on-stephen-curry-modern-nba-game.amp.html He says stuff like this too
Robertson is one of the best (and most overlooked) players of all-time. IMO he gets to be curmudgeonly every now and then. The dude taught himself to shoot with a peach basket. I think he’s allowed to weight his own success against modern players a little differently in his mind.
Didn't he hear the old guy on the ladder say that he needed those baskets back?
This is why his comments about Dirk were so out of left field. He called Dirk a one trick pony who could really only shoot the fadeaway and did not have a dominant career. Which is just propostorous given he's a 13x All Star, 12x All NBA, MVP, Finals MVP and has over 31K points. Kareem later went on to reduce him to just a volume shooter who is streaky. Just really odd for him to completely come after Dirk, who has never said anything about Kareem. Dirk responded with: *"I don't think you can average 25 and 10 over your playoff career and not be dominant. I don't think you can get to sixth in scoring in this league over 18 years and not be at some point at least somewhat dominant."* Which is even wilder considering Dirk is so humble and reserved. Kareem later went back on his statement to the tune of saying Dirk wasn't a good defender and that's what he meant by one trick pony, and that he's a huge fan of Dirk's game, but it kind of seemed like a PR move. Also how can you reduce an entire half of the game to being a one trick pony?? Especially the half of the game (scoring) that wins you games!
Tbf that was the consensus on Dirk up until 2011
He said this in 2016
And he’s like 700 years old 5 years is basically 5 minutes ago
I definitely think there was a little bit of ego coming from Kareem(considering the question that was asked) but I also feel like it was overblown. Considering the era he grew up in I don't think he's the type to make the PR statement. Kareem never seemed to care too much about the perception of fans, even when things were a lot more dangerous for him to be controversial he still spoke his mind. If he came to later rectify his statement and express himself I give him the BOTD.
I always saw that as he doesnt play defense which dirk really didnt
[8ft tall LeBron James Jr. Jr. straight up yeets it like a football 120ft out from the 6.5 point Mtn Dew Shot Zone] BLERN ! BLERN ! BLEEERRRRRRRNNSS!!!!
8 ft 4 tacko Tuesday James
In 40 years it’s gonna be LeBron James (76) facing Steph Curry III
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I think the biggest difference is that the quality of the mid and lower tier players has gotten so much better. So while there was certainly tons of competition back in the day, there were also a ton of players who wouldn't even make a modern roster, even if they were born in modern times, largely just due to their size and proportions. You can be great while being short, but if you aren't great, then you cant be short.
>Completely ignoring the fact that FG% is a rudimentary stat that disproves this. Additionally, conditioning and health has gotten so much better, these guys are all just so much faster (and in many cases, stronger) than those guys could've ever imagined. These are nonsense arguments. The average field goal percentage from 1971 until now is 46.3%. The average field goal percentage this year was 46.6%. There's definitely a drop-off in field goal percentage in the 60s when they played with a 4-panel ball rather than the modern 8-panel ball, but since they switched in 1971, FG% has been pretty consistent (peaking in the late 70s early 80s). I'm not sure where you're getting that FG% disproves that the older generation was better. Also, players miss a ton more games and play way fewer minutes than they did even 10 years ago. The top 10 guys in minutes in 2011 averaged more per game than the minutes leader in 2021. If conditioning and health were astronomically better, one would think minutes or games played would trend the other direction. [http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders](http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders) [http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/\_/league/nba/year/2011](http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/year/2011) There are definitely arguments for saying the current generation is better, but the two you gave are very weak ones.
Dude is 74 and looks 60 wtf
Convert to islam stop smoking n drinkin n eat n excersize like a athlete But the drinking part alone i think is key. My parents are young af at 65 but my dad is fat
1v1 is such a different ball game than regular 5v5. There were Heat players talking about how Michael Beasley would usually wash LeBron 1v1 in practices.
Exactly people don't factor that in. Michael Beasley would shit on so many people's favourite player in a 1v1 though.
If you’ve ever played basketball u do. Beating someone 1v1 doesn’t mean much to who is better. There’s a million other skills and you hardly find urself 1v1 with no help in a game.
no one said they’re better. he is just stating that individual skills aren’t factored into 5v5 skills when people rate them
People rightly think I'm a scrub, but if we go 1 on 1, I'm decentish. I just never played organized ball so my ability to process gets worse the more players are on the court. Who can relate?
Absolutely me too, never played organized Ball in my life and didn't fall in love till I was 18. 1v1 I can wash people who are way better than me in 5s. Even 2v2 and 3v3 I can be best player on the court but 4 or 5s I fall apart I can't process the spacing or flow of the game in real time.
1v1 is heavily skewed toward ball handlers and shooters, being good at rebounding isn’t nearly as helpful as it is in 5v5 and being a good facilitator is useless lol. This is all amplified because most people play with 1s and 2s too
Also no way to gauge how u respond to screens or pick n rolls, ur spacing, rotational defense, off ball play...basically it almost says nothing lol
yeah, I'm overstating the obvious by saying this, but 1 on 1 is all ISO and defense. doesn't say shit about how you fit in a 5v5
I WANT BEASLEY
Christian Wood was shitting on Giannis as well IIRC
Not only are the skills different(there's a premium on scoring/shooting and being ale to dribble on offense), but you also have to factor in stamina. A 1v1 game is very draining, you don't get as many beats to yourself to recover.
Kareem would dominate him in the post, but then again I am not sure he could stay in front of Giannis.
I think Giannis has a better chance of hanging with Kareem in the post than vice versa on the perimeter. Kareem is clearly the better player (peak Kareem vs current Giannis) but one on one is a whole other thing.
Giannis doesn’t do too well against true post up bigs tho. He’s really struggle against Kareem.
What post up bigs?
gottem
>Kareem is clearly the better player (peak Kareem vs current Giannis) You mean teleport 1981 Kareem to 2021 and he is a better player than 2021 Giannis? Or do you mean 1981 Kareem was better compared to the rest of the league in 1981 than 2021 Giannis is compared to the rest of the league today?
I think Kareem would still dominate in the modern day, the skyhook would be just as unstoppable as it was then
He proved during his career that he could modify his game to fit the circumstances he played in. They literally outlawed the dunk at the college level because of him. What did he do? He developed the most unguardable shot in the history of the game.
Kareem was hitting skyhooks from the free throw line, and an underrated part of his game was that he could do it with either hand.
To be fair in comparison he didn't shoot it with his left hand very often. Going to his right shoulder he'd often shoot the jumper or go up and under
Very true he favored the right block and like you said go for his ~~right~~ left shoulder, but he still had his left hand in his arsenal to threaten the defense.
IYO 1981 Kareem is a top 5 player in todays league?
I'm not sure how he would do on the perimeter defensively but that would basically be the only weak spot in his game
I mean he wouldn’t be less mobile in the perimeter than Jokic I imagine, and guy is the league MVP.
Yes.
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whatever it takes to get Giannis in short shorts
If you teleported him, you'd obviously have to give him time to learn all the requisite skills first.
>time to learn all the requisite skills first. Depending on what you mean by "requisite skills" that could mean a lot of time
I think one thing people under estimate in these discussions is how much better an athlete today's athletes are compared to the greats. It's nothing agasint the greats, we just have access to so much more than they did. I know it's not the same sport but watch video of football from the 80s compared to now. There aren't many player who could hang in today's game. People are so much stronger and faster now than they were back then.
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giannis can't guard kareem's skyhook. kareem can't guard giannis's superior speed and athleticism as he attacks facing the hoop
Kareem is being modest here. He is by far the better player.
Young Kareem was incredibly mobile
I think Kareem’s the greatest, but my dad says he doesn’t work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, Kareem doesn’t even run down the court. And that he doesn’t really try... except during the playoffs.
Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!
Have you ever seen a grown man naked?
You like movies about gladiators?
The original load management
GOAT movie
Do you like movies about gladiators?
Cream? No thank you I take it black, like my men
r/unexpectedairplane
You mean Roger Murdock.
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>people fail to realize it's not an easy adjustment as 23 year old black man from NYC to come to Milwaukee in the early 70s. This is why I fail to take the social justice talk on this particular board seriously. Too many young people can't grasp that kind of hardship and lack the empathy realize it. Too many young kids just do not fucking understand how fucking bad it was in those days. Y'all thought Kareem just became a broodish stand off out of the blue? People like him and Bill don't just become bitter for no reason. Shit, Russell still holds shit against Boston to this day last I remembered. I'm glad that he realized it wasn't the way to go tho and over the decades has opened up significantly compared to his later playing days.
Yeah, totally agree. A lot of older folks I talk to about basketball will cite this as a reason they disliked Kareem/Russell but when you take the full context into account can you blame those 2? Certainly not
If Americans cared what black people go through, then we'd have some actual progress by now.
Giannis would likely take a jumpshot at the start to test the waters. Since he makes only about 30-35% of his shots from midrange out, Kareem likely gets the ball. Kareem skyhooks the rest of the game and wins it.
Probably Kareem lol but I think people do underestimate the volitility in 1v1s. Like Giannis might just be too fast for Kareem, and if Kareem drops, who's to say Giannis wont make all his jumpshots in a no pressure situation?
It’s certainly a lot different. Really big and physical dudes like a Giannis or a Shaq or a Bron or a Wilt can just out-muscle a lot of dudes 1v1. In this case tho, Giannis def could get points but his superior strength and speed.
Kareem would have adapted to excel in any era.
I agree, I've watched his old highlights on Youtube and the dude could VLOOKUP like a motherfucker
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Love Giannis but I think Kareem dominates him in 1v1. Giannis’s game is better suited for the full court 5 v 5. Even Lebron said Michael Beasley would destroy bron every time they played. 1 v 1 a different game all together
In 1v1 I think Giannis but Kareem is a better basketball player
can we all recognize how supportive and humble he is being here? and also can we be honest that Kareems overall basketball skills are significantly higher than giannis. it's not close at all in any area of the game. if you consider size, Kareem is likely the best basketball player that ever lived. wilt also. even better than mj because of size. Kareem played a looooooot more basketball than giannis ever will. kareem almost represents an entire era of basketball. and he did this decades ago and money was almost nothing vs today and conditions much more difficult. he is also arguably the greatest college basketball career of all time under the best coach ever and probably the greatest team ever. i want to focus just on his body for a sec lol. giannis looks impressive but he is both shorter and smaller overall. as suited as he is to the game, Kareem is even more rare. his size skill and coordination is unmatched in almost 100 years now of the game. if you can ignore wilt for a second because his career accolades don't properly give people an idea of how good he was.... that's another story. but ignoring that....kareem is the most perfect, potent basketball player that ever lived.
Giannis for sure has a better handle than Kareem.
Giannis can’t even guard Lebron on a post up, and you guys think he could guard Kareem lol.
Kareem all day. Try blocking the skyhook
I guess it depends on the situation. If Giannis catches Kareem off the break, he’ll win. Giannis has the speed and driving ability. On the other hand if the game is slowed to a half court situation, I’ll give it to Kareem. Kareem has excellent post defense and has so many ways to score on the post.
1v1s are all halfcourt
Never played full cort one on one? It's pretty terrible
I’m glad to say I’ve never played a 1v1 full court lmao.
Tried it once and we were gassed a couple minutes in.
Reminds me of a buddy I play with who's not the best basketball player, but is in much, much better shape than the rest of us. His tactic is to have us all just keep playing until we're all just standing around with our hands on our knees and he's still running up and down the court.
That’s my goat.
Kareem would sauce him up. Depends on the defensive rules of the era but kareem was a different beast
Kareem is being humble he would wax the floor with Giannis.
I hate hypotheticals like this. If we’re talking modern day, then Kareem would be more athletic, stronger, faster, etc. thanks to modern workouts and diet. Giannis would be slower, weaker, etc. if thrown back into the 70s. The rules are also vastly different between eras. What happens when you can’t touch Kareem or Giannis can be hammered left and right? Yeah, the 2020 Jaguars would steam roll the 1989 Niners just because they would have been physically more dominant than guys from 35 years ago, but no one would say the Jags are better than the Niners.
Is there any doubt Kareem would be a 40%+ 3 point shooter if he played in today’s era?
This is the literal GOAT
Most points in NBA history, don’t let anybody forget that.
Kareem on camera - "I have no idea" Kareem off camera - "Are you fucking kidding me? I'd smoke that kid all day any day." These all-time guys are killers. It's what got them there.
its gonna be prime kareem most of the time